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  • Locked thread
The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Something that occurs to me is we still don't have an explanation for where the night 1 kill went. Mr.F!/Magnus claims he was roleblocked night 1 which could have been scum Flamander's jail. It's possible that this jail blocked the Tesco kill (assuming there was one) but that still does not explain the missing scum kill. The only claimed mechanism for that kill to have been stopped is if scum tried to kill either DCB or yronic heroism; either way the kill would have been blocked by DCB's bulletproof shot.

If anyone has a role that could have stopped a kill night 1 now is probably the time to claim it.

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The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



2 penny bottle imp posted:

Ahhh, okay I missed the monster vs tesco thing. I assumed Godfather implied + goons, but I guess that's not a 100% reliable meta assumption.

I am just an unconfirmed town mason. I had to pick someone to recruit N0, and I recruited Derp early because of his Doc claim. I'd like to say I was impartial and skeptical of him the whole time, but I see now I was blinded by my early choice to recruit him.

Derp you sunofabitch you lied to me!
Uhh, how did you recruit derp based on his doctor claim if you had to pick someone on night 0 to recruit?

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


The Ninth Layer posted:

Uhh, how did you recruit derp based on his doctor claim if you had to pick someone on night 0 to recruit?

I pointed this out earlier - derp claimed N0, basically during confirmations. At the time I took it as a jokevote; apparently imp did not.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Hmm okay. One thing that does make me feel better about that claim is that derp claimed it somewhat early and without much prompting so at least the role probably exists. Whether it's a town role, or a Monster role designed to look like a town role, or simply 2pbi just claiming his buddy status as a mason is a different story I guess.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


I really don't like the mason claim. Seems too convenient to me. Can someone explain what is the point of unconfirmed mason buddies anyway?

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

How do you guys feel about a no lynch? With 6 players, 1 wrong lynch puts us in LyLo, whereas waiting a night for more info means 1 wrong lynch would still 'just' be LyLo.

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

yronic heroism posted:

I really don't like the mason claim. Seems too convenient to me. Can someone explain what is the point of unconfirmed mason buddies anyway?

The point is apparently to make me look like an idiot.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


The Ninth Layer posted:

Something that occurs to me is we still don't have an explanation for where the night 1 kill went. Mr.F!/Magnus claims he was roleblocked night 1 which could have been scum Flamander's jail. It's possible that this jail blocked the Tesco kill (assuming there was one) but that still does not explain the missing scum kill. The only claimed mechanism for that kill to have been stopped is if scum tried to kill either DCB or yronic heroism; either way the kill would have been blocked by DCB's bulletproof shot.

If anyone has a role that could have stopped a kill night 1 now is probably the time to claim it.

i think maybe there is 3+1 or 2+2 scum balanced by not allowing a kill first day

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


2 penny bottle imp posted:

How do you guys feel about a no lynch? With 6 players, 1 wrong lynch puts us in LyLo, whereas waiting a night for more info means 1 wrong lynch would still 'just' be LyLo.

I am not cool with that because I don't think we have enough anti scum powers left with cop and watcher gone.

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

yronic heroism posted:

I am not cool with that because I don't think we have enough anti scum powers left with cop and watcher gone.

Doesn't matter. A clean scum kill still gives us info, and just as many days to LyLo.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 4

2 penny bottle imp (1): yronic heroism
The Ninth Layer (0): 2 penny bottle imp, 2 penny bottle imp

Not Voting (5): 2 penny bottle imp, DivineCoffeeBinge, got some chores tonight, The Ninth Layer, this is a stickup

With 6 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is September 13th, 2017 at 8 p.m. CDT -- that's in about 1 day, 3 hours.

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


yronic heroism posted:

I am not cool with that because I don't think we have enough anti scum powers left with cop and watcher gone.

I second this, especially since we've had two nightkills for a few nights now and our assumption that there are only 4 scumbos is just that.

(I would be kinda stunned if it weren't the case, but if there are mutually-opposed scum teams that have it out for each other as much as they have it out for town I could sorta see it, if I squint)

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

I second this, especially since we've had two nightkills for a few nights now and our assumption that there are only 4 scumbos is just that.

(I would be kinda stunned if it weren't the case, but if there are mutually-opposed scum teams that have it out for each other as much as they have it out for town I could sorta see it, if I squint)

5 scum in a 13 person game, with the only town roles so far as cop (but there's a godfather), watcher (but there's a ninja), and mason (but I'm an idiot) would be pretty rough.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


got some chores tonight posted:

i think maybe there is 3+1 or 2+2 scum balanced by not allowing a kill first day

I was considering this as well.

I did consider derp as an sk after seeing the flip, but I'm not sure it tracks.

I had 2 thoughts (excluding it being fake) about his claim of doc self protecting nightly, 1) he was bp, but lost it, or 2) he's playing chicken with a kill in a weird way. bp godfather sk seems a bit much to me, but would explain n1 missing 1 kill, and the jail the other.

2+2 makes more sense to me based on what we know about the setup thus far, and explains all the weirdness around imp and derp far better than anything else I've got.

depending on the details of kash's flavor, I could see him only being able to detect monsters, not humans, with echo cop abilities as justification for godfather. unfortunately this doesn't help us suss out if there are 3 monsters or 2 tesco.

I got distracted with work and forgot what other thing I wanted to say, but it was slightly in support of derp being a 1 man team

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


yronic heroism posted:

I really don't like the mason claim. Seems too convenient to me. Can someone explain what is the point of unconfirmed mason buddies anyway?

it's just a mechanic that adds an interesting twist. if both parties believe each other town, and they are correct, it is very powerful for them to have out of thread contact. but, the sliver of doubt that will always be there makes it a little more interesting.

it's more interesting still when you're scum and trick an unconfirmed mason into trusting you, or bag a scum mason partner

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


2 penny bottle imp posted:

5 scum in a 13 person game, with the only town roles so far as cop (but there's a godfather), watcher (but there's a ninja), and mason (but I'm an idiot) would be pretty rough.

I thought so too, but then I was wondering if maybe there was a blanket-enforced n1 no-kill to balance it out. That does seem a little much, though.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

Something else I just thought of that bears noting: I've been assuming, I think we've all been assuming, that Kashuno's "well I reread the posts and TNL looks like town to me now" bit was a softclaim, but since he never made any definitive claims it's entirely possible that he investigated someone else and changed his mind on TNL for exactly the reason he posted.

That is to say, I'm not certain we can count on Kashuno's about-face as an investigation result.

if kash posted that as cop without realizing we would believe it is a soft claim, I will yell at him later

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

I thought so too, but then I was wondering if maybe there was a blanket-enforced n1 no-kill to balance it out. That does seem a little much, though.

it wouldn't have to be blanket, just one faction would do. one kill could've been stopped by the jail or similar.

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


this is a stickup posted:

if kash posted that as cop without realizing we would believe it is a soft claim, I will yell at him later

Does Kash strike you as the kind of player who'd let that stop him?

That's a serious question by the way, I'm never sure how much of the "eh, effort is hard, I'm just gonna cruise in and drop three one-line posts and then jet for the day" style of play I see some players use is genuine and how much it's a tactic.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


im pretty sure kash cleared tnl

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

this is a stickup tunneled in on yronic all of the early game, seems to have (mostly) abandoned that. I'm curious what about his own role makes him think the possibility of Kash as a lover is plausible. "so I guess it was flam+flerp and derp+imp" is a good conclusion and for the most part I like it.

yronic heroism is quiet and hard for me to read, given that most of his posts have been made under the pressure of stickup's tunneling, but has never read as scummy to me as others seem to have been thinking.

The flip of derp as Godfather confuses the hell out of me, as it throws Mr. F!'s description of seeing him visit Kash into confusion; I have always been under the impression that the whole point of having a Godfather is that they don't kill anyone, they send other people out to kill people.

godfathers can kill, usually. sometimes they lose godfather while killing or similar. if your scum team is all PRs, having the godfather kill is great as everyone else can use their actions. just don't claim vanilla and get watched killing someone

wrt yronic I still have a scummy read, but his responses to constant pressure seemed better the last day. at least none of his reactions or counters stood out to me like the previous days.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



got some chores tonight posted:

i think maybe there is 3+1 or 2+2 scum balanced by not allowing a kill first day

Maybe, either way it leaves us with one scum player left, it's just a matter of which connections you want to put weight on.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

Does Kash strike you as the kind of player who'd let that stop him?

That's a serious question by the way, I'm never sure how much of the "eh, effort is hard, I'm just gonna cruise in and drop three one-line posts and then jet for the day" style of play I see some players use is genuine and how much it's a tactic.

kash has enough awareness to not clear someone if he hasn't cleared them imo. he usually gives real reads and opinions, even if they are often one liners.

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


this is a stickup posted:

kash has enough awareness to not clear someone if he hasn't cleared them imo. he usually gives real reads and opinions, even if they are often one liners.

Fair enough, thank you.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


assuming kash's cop can only find monsters, I'm not sure if I prefer 3+1 or 2+2

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



For the record I didn't see anything in Kash's history that suggested he cleared me and if anything he seemed to be asking why people thought I was cleared. I'm town anyway so feel free to believe otherwise.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


I am just not liking any of the reasoning imp has given for anything. The mason thing is weird for a scum play but he did qualify it with saying derp was unconfirmed. Weird planting of doubts posts and vote pullback yesterday. Still my number one suspect but I will hear out other cases.

Any thoughts on whether we should claim? I kind of think we should but that's because I'm not sure town has any roles left worth protecting.

Also is there a meta read on TNL and chores?

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

this is a stickup posted:

assuming kash's cop can only find monsters, I'm not sure if I prefer 3+1 or 2+2

If he can only find monsters and there's a Tesco godfather, that's a pretty crippled role.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


yronic heroism posted:

I am just not liking any of the reasoning imp has given for anything. The mason thing is weird for a scum play but he did qualify it with saying derp was unconfirmed. Weird planting of doubts posts and vote pullback yesterday. Still my number one suspect but I will hear out other cases.

Any thoughts on whether we should claim? I kind of think we should but that's because I'm not sure town has any roles left worth protecting.

Also is there a meta read on TNL and chores?

yeah that i own

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



If it's not lylo today then it's lylo tomorrow, I think claiming today is probably a good idea as we may at least learn something about the first night.

I'm VT.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


The Ninth Layer posted:

For the record I didn't see anything in Kash's history that suggested he cleared me and if anything he seemed to be asking why people thought I was cleared. I'm town anyway so feel free to believe otherwise.

I dunno, people do leave overly obvious breadcrumbs like this as cop. me included.

Kashuno posted:

If I wasn't so sure you were Town TNL I would be like scum trying to save scum team

Kashuno posted:

Why is TNL confirmed Town?

after seeing the flip, I took the second post to be kash feeling out if someone else was setting up to claim cop.

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

yronic heroism posted:

I am just not liking any of the reasoning imp has given for anything.

hmmm wonder if that's because Ive been hounding you most of the game.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



this is a stickup posted:

I dunno, people do leave overly obvious breadcrumbs like this as cop. me included.



after seeing the flip, I took the second post to be kash feeling out if someone else was setting up to claim cop.

Hey what's your role? Let's massclaim.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


i think dcb killed kashuno

or i guess derp did but i think dcb is on derps team

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


2 penny bottle imp posted:

If he can only find monsters and there's a Tesco godfather, that's a pretty crippled role.

not really. echo cop with only 13 players: if its 4 scum and he picks 3 people, he'll be close to a 100% rate of finding 1 scum/2 town pairs. if he got 2/4 scum in one pair of 3, it's almost game over.

cutting it to monsters only 3+1 is still really good chances, but gives the scum a little room to hide, and makes sense thematically

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


or yronic is a monster with flerp and flamander

ok those are my reads

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


mags is such a lovely town player

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


2 penny bottle imp posted:

hmmm wonder if that's because Ive been hounding you most of the game.

You haven't though. You've been voting on me but not saying much about it other than claiming agreement with stickup. Since I know I'm town that makes me very suspicious of the second vote on me who seems less genuine than stickup.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


I will claim if we are mass claiming, but be aware my role will not illuminate much, and I still have a useful action for el scumbo (assuming it's not imp somehow). mine didn't go off cause derp was nk'd

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The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



this is a stickup posted:

I will claim if we are mass claiming, but be aware my role will not illuminate much, and I still have a useful action for el scumbo (assuming it's not imp somehow). mine didn't go off cause derp was nk'd

If the game's not over today it's over tomorrow. We have a living claimed bodyguard. No reason not to claim at this point.

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