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The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



yronic heroism posted:

What does an echo cop power look like? I'm evaluating the "tnl was cleared" theory but don't understand the power.

I don't know if Echo Cop is actually supposed to be an "Ecco Cop" which is a cop that sends in three names and is told if there is at least one scum player in the group or not, or some other cop variant due to the different spelling.

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The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



If it's an Ecco Cop then presumably Kash could have cleared two other people.

I would almost rather you guys ignored Kashuno's results completely and evaluate me on my arguments and play instead of debating endlessly how cleared I am.

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

The Ninth Layer posted:

I would almost rather you guys ignored Kashuno's results completely and evaluate me on my arguments and play instead of debating endlessly how cleared I am.

I could listen to this but I'd need to see it in a dead detective's diary before I could act on it.

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


The Ninth Layer posted:

Who loving cares if town tunnel on you, it's only a problem if you actually get voted and flipped. That's the only bad consequence of people thinking you are suspicious.

You honestly don't think it's a problem when we start off D5 with players going "welp, we all know DCB is scum, let's just lynch him" the same way they're doing right now? You honestly mean to tell me you think that's not useful to the actual scum who are out there looking for all the cover they can get?

I mean, fine, I take your point, I'll knock it off, but frankly I disagree with you.

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

You honestly don't think it's a problem when we start off D5 with players going "welp, we all know DCB is scum, let's just lynch him" the same way they're doing right now? You honestly mean to tell me you think that's not useful to the actual scum who are out there looking for all the cover they can get?

I mean, fine, I take your point, I'll knock it off, but frankly I disagree with you.

I think you have talked more about lynching yourself than anyone else.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

You honestly don't think it's a problem when we start off D5 with players going "welp, we all know DCB is scum, let's just lynch him" the same way they're doing right now? You honestly mean to tell me you think that's not useful to the actual scum who are out there looking for all the cover they can get?

I mean, fine, I take your point, I'll knock it off, but frankly I disagree with you.

It's not a problem because presumably you could make a case against someone else more compelling than suspicions that supposing you are town you would know are wrong.

The problem is when you insist you're the best possible person we could kill which gives every player town or scum an easy and good reason to want you dead.

Like seriously we have six people alive and will have maybe two chances at scum. If you're town why on Earth would you want yourself to be one of those chances?

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

The Ninth Layer posted:

If it's an Ecco Cop then presumably Kash could have cleared two other people.

He was for lynching chores and yronic (which perhaps implies he didnt target + clear them), but was anti-flam vote (which shows he wasn't omniscient). No other player commentary after N1.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


DCB seeming increasingly scummy but that's always been his posting style. My gut still says TNL. I don't thing Kash cleared him and fear he has enough mastery to play us like a fiddle.

##vote TNL

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Voting me because you're afraid of how well I've been playing is incredibly dumb. Come up with some kind of case at least.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


yronic heroism posted:

First impression: Town could legit believe this but if TNL is scum this would be devious politicking to get imp and stickup to take me out, since they've been willing to do so in the past, then he keeps the option of a case against DCB or chores open.

I think TNL is capable of devious scum play, so it's a problem.

This is the case. I don't pretend it's ironclad. I think remaining scum is playing a good game. TNL is a good player.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



##vote no lynch

I don't see any downside to this beyond the possibility of my own death, and a lot of upside to the town. If scum kills someone then flavor may shed light into which faction the remaining scum player is. Also eliminates a town player from the suspect pool and makes it easier for town players to achieve consensus (3/5 is easier to hit than 4/6). If scum no kills then maybe stickup or another unclaimed role can get some info.

The only risk to a no lynch is if there are two nightkills out there. If that's the case town may end up in a lylo situation where they can get one scum but will lose to the other. But I think there's only 1 scum alive and in any case this would also be a problem if we flipped the wrong person today.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



yronic heroism posted:

This is the case. I don't pretend it's ironclad. I think remaining scum is playing a good game. TNL is a good player.

Sure and if I'm a good player who rolled town this game then I'm an asset to have alive. You can speculate all you want about why I'm not dead yet but keep in mind scum might have left me alive to advance that very argument (or equally likely they're not too worried about my current performance this game).

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


is it an asset to keep a bad player who is begging to be lynched because they might be town

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


even though i think theyre the scummiest poster by far

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


could we, maybe, play some loving mafia

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


i mean 3 or 4 people separately-ish came up with the conclusion that dcb looks more scummy than towny and tnl is over here saying uh maybe we should nl

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


lol tnl is actually probabvly scum and kashuno is just poo poo at this game, huh

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


i am going to set up a really good and cool chainlynch and say if dcb is not scum its probably tnl since hes bending himself backwards to defend him for no towny reason (its because hes scum)

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


The Ninth Layer posted:

##vote no lynch

I don't see any downside to this beyond the possibility of my own death, and a lot of upside to the town. If scum kills someone then flavor may shed light into which faction the remaining scum player is. Also eliminates a town player from the suspect pool and makes it easier for town players to achieve consensus (3/5 is easier to hit than 4/6). If scum no kills then maybe stickup or another unclaimed role can get some info.

The only risk to a no lynch is if there are two nightkills out there. If that's the case town may end up in a lylo situation where they can get one scum but will lose to the other. But I think there's only 1 scum alive and in any case this would also be a problem if we flipped the wrong person today.

i grant that that is a good reason i havent thought of

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


The Ninth Layer posted:

If the game's not over today it's over tomorrow. We have a living claimed bodyguard. No reason not to claim at this point.

and huh tnl pushed the massclaim today that revealed everyone has a non-investigative role (vts, whatever fake role dcb made up, stickers super secret powerful role that wont shed light on anyything or whatever he s aid)

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



got some chores tonight posted:

i am going to set up a really good and cool chainlynch and say if dcb is not scum its probably tnl since hes bending himself backwards to defend him for no towny reason (its because hes scum)

What is the downside to no lynching?

We have 6 alive so if we vote someone out tomorrow is lylo.
If we NL instead then we're at 5 alive, minus one town player and possible suspect, and it's still not lylo.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



The worst case scenario to a no lynch imo is that scum simply doesn't do anything, stickup's role turns out to be useless and then we're back where we started.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


if youre a town player and you think youre good you shouldnt say well i guess we should nl when youve expressed suspicion about a player this day who, as mentioned, is essentially refusing to even remotely play towny

the worst case scenario is you, the smart town player, gets nkd

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


2 penny bottle imp posted:

I think you have talked more about lynching yourself than anyone else.

Nah, fewer words, just more posts.

People want more cases, I'll make more cases.

Chores: gets credit for being post leader, but starts off with song lyrics for half a page on his post history, then was silent for D1 before he swept in to hammer RetroFuturist at the literal last second. "i believe that the scum killed tobbs and kash was killed by a town player for extremely bad posting yesterday" jumps out at me for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on. Spends a day laser-focused on Mr. F!; when it turns out Mr. F! was town, he's the only one of the people who voted for him to give himself some cover by posting about how bad a town player he (Mr. F!) is. I don't think he's wrong, only that he's the only one who felt the need to make the post for cover. As near as I can tell his entire case on Mr. F! amounted to "because I said so," or if there was more depth of thought there he did not bother sharing with the rest of the class. Was the first person to vote for a player today after the rationale for a no-lynch had been set forth (imp was the first to vote a player, but unvoted shortly after and then made the no-lynch suggestion).

Stickup: Has consistently voted for people who later flipped town (I talked about this days ago), while avoiding voting for Flamander. Later tries to say he was "supporting Flamander's lynch" (in this post) while keeping his vote on yronic all day, where there was no bandwagon whatsoever and it might as well have been a no-vote. Has alluded to having a n0 action and some kind of special ability, has shared very little of that information. I'm still thinking he'd be a good lynch for the reasons I stated way back when I claimed bodyguard.

Imp: God drat I'm getting more and more convinced that that mason claim is some kind of genius; it still jumps out to me that derp was the first person to discuss masonry, potentially laying groundwork for his much-less-experienced (3rd game!) scumbuddy to have some cover if he lets slip that he has information he couldn't otherwise have. My gut tells me that's a stretch, though. His posting's been scummy but I can hardly throw too many stones here. I'm actually leaning town on imp right now. First one to call for a no-lynch, as well, which is hardly beneficial to scum at this point.

TNL: I've been having troubles separating TNL's later play from my own reaction to the "headache-inducing" argument we had on D1, which I'll admit has left me a little more gunshy when it comes to checking him out. Was absolutely convinced that derp was town, and was vocal about that. His play today reads very towny to me, though. The comments he made about "The only risk to a no lynch" are ones that occurred to me as well, but if he was scum there'd be no reason to bring them up.

yronic: Again, have to try and move past my own biases based on the fact that I was stone cold certain that my protecting him N1 and stickup's immediate tunneling on him D2 was Important. That said, he never has seemed overly scummy to me. The D2 stickup/yronic slapfight took up too much spotlight from these two for me to get a super clear read.

Stickup or chores, those are my choices, but under the present circumstances I think it's smarter to ##vote no lynch. The worst case scenarios there are better than the worst case scenarios of voting wrong.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



got some chores tonight posted:

is it an asset to keep a bad player who is begging to be lynched because they might be town

Also I have real trouble envisioning scum would be stupid enough to think arguing for their own death would be a winning or good strategy, and yes I know that's a WIFOM reason for why they might try it and yes I want to punish DCB for advancing the argument at all.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


The Ninth Layer posted:

Also I have real trouble envisioning scum would be stupid enough to think arguing for their own death would be a winning or good strategy, and yes I know that's a WIFOM reason for why they might try it and yes I want to punish DCB for advancing the argument at all.

a scum player literally already did it this game!!!

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



##unvote we still have an hour and I'd rather the day not end early.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



got some chores tonight posted:

a scum player literally already did it this game!!!

Yeah another reason why DCB also being scum and trying it would be really dumb.

Even Flamander realized belatedly it was a bad idea, I genuinely just think DCB doesn't know any better.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


stuck dead in traffic atm but should be home in <15m

got some chores tonight posted:

lol tnl is actually probabvly scum and kashuno is just poo poo at this game, huh

kashuno, pls

got some chores tonight posted:

if youre a town player and you think youre good you shouldnt say well i guess we should nl when youve expressed suspicion about a player this day who, as mentioned, is essentially refusing to even remotely play towny

the worst case scenario is you, the smart town player, gets nkd

yeah ##vote dcb

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


The Ninth Layer posted:

What is the downside to no lynching?

We have 6 alive so if we vote someone out tomorrow is lylo.
If we NL instead then we're at 5 alive, minus one town player and possible suspect, and it's still not lylo.

Downside is scum only has to convince two town players. I would rather operate with a larger consensus but that seems impossible. I also want to see commitment to votes.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Ugh look I'll be honest, I'd have no problems voting DCB except that I really really hate 4 man lylo, it's a horrible number to be stuck at having to catch scum on because in 4 man lylo all three townies have to be in unanimous agreement.

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company


got some chores tonight posted:

a scum player literally already did it this game!!!

And look how well it worked out for them! A scum player would have to be either really stupid or really ballsy to say "let me use the same strategy that failed for Flamander, it'll work for me because I'm just that good"

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 4

DivineCoffeeBinge (2): got some chores tonight, this is a stickup
Lynch No One! (2): 2 penny bottle imp, The Ninth Layer, DivineCoffeeBinge, The Ninth Layer
The Ninth Layer (1): 2 penny bottle imp, 2 penny bottle imp, yronic heroism
2 penny bottle imp (0): yronic heroism, yronic heroism

Not Voting (1): The Ninth Layer

With 6 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is September 13th, 2017 at 8 p.m. CDT -- that's in about 1 hour.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


The Ninth Layer posted:

Ugh look I'll be honest, I'd have no problems voting DCB except that I really really hate 4 man lylo, it's a horrible number to be stuck at having to catch scum on because in 4 man lylo all three townies have to be in unanimous agreement.

could just NL in this case.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



yronic heroism posted:

Downside is scum only has to convince two town players. I would rather operate with a larger consensus but that seems impossible. I also want to see commitment to votes.

Even numbers are always beneficial to scum because the odds the execution hits them are lower, and the bar for town to make the right call is higher.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

And look how well it worked out for them! A scum player would have to be either really stupid or really ballsy to say "let me use the same strategy that failed for Flamander, it'll work for me because I'm just that good"

this actually tracks pretty well tbh, but also is textbook wifom

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



this is a stickup posted:

could just NL in this case.

Yeah, we could also do that today ahead of lylo.

sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


I think waiting a day to nl, if necessary at all, is better in this case for reasons

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Town flips:
JOAT
Watcher
Echo Cop
Vanilla

Town claims:
N0 mason recruiter
Bulletproof bodyguard
Vanilla
Vanilla
???
???

Scum flips:
Godfather
Ninja
Jailer

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got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...


im deadproof pgo survivor so scum should definitely not try to nk me

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