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8-Bit Scholar posted:Okay and my subjective take is that it's bad. My opinion shouldn't affect whether your like it or not. But the objection I've heard is not that my point was invalid, but that I am wrong to have interrupted a big circle jerk about Polygon. Have you ever heard the phrase "It's not what you said, but how you said it"? There's a difference between posting an opinion in good faith and threadshitting. I'm not saying you have been 100% threadshitting with every post, but it can be a fine line.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:53
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Golden Goat posted:What was the DOOM video thing? It's the videogame equivalent of BUZZFEED EMPLOYEES SHOOT GUNS FOR THE FIRST TIME.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:54
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Golden Goat posted:And it was an issue or something? I dunno, I think it was at a time when game review companies were putting out more video content and people were starting to object to how blatantly bad at games they were, with the idea that if you review games for a living, you ought to be pretty good at playing them. I dunno if that's actually fair, but it made me lol 'cause Polygon loves walking simulator games and now they have a first person game that actually requires you to shoot and they're sucking at it.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:54
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Golden Goat posted:And it was an issue or something? It perfectly illustrates the issue that was being argued upthread. Maybe Arthur Gies is a great writer and can convey everything you need to know about a game in his written review, and that works for some people. But then there's another camp thinking "Jesus, why would I listen to the video game opinion of someone who can't even play a video game worth a drat?" BUT that being said I haven't seen the video and I haven't read any of Arthur's reviews because, again, I don't really read the website. I just enjoy the various video and podcast content which is mostly more focused on comedy/entertainment than helping you decide which game to buy.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:55
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8-Bit Scholar posted:So beyond being needlessly insulting, this post infers that Polygon's writers are "engaging" with video games in a manner akin to critics in "every other medium" which seems to say that Polygon's reviews are actually more thoughtful or nuanced or overall better than the typical standard. I asked as to why, saying I'd love to have my opinion changed on this matter. Maybe engage by reading the several articles that have been posted, then?
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Aug 31, 2017 16:57
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I dunno if that's actually fair, but it made me lol 'cause Polygon loves walking simulator games and now they have a first person game that actually requires you to shoot and they're sucking at it. timp posted:BUT that being said I haven't seen the video and I haven't read any of Arthur's reviews because, again, I don't really read the website. I just enjoy the various video and podcast content which is mostly more focused on comedy/entertainment than helping you decide which game to buy. I stand by Review scores are bad and Polygon sticking to them when most reviews can veer heavily into more how the game feels is just driving people nuts. Most other content they make is honestly fine.
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Aug 31, 2017 16:59
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Here's a summary of the Doom video people are talking about : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3pQ0oO_cDE e: There was also that SimCity thing where they insisted that the DRM was 100% necessary and there was absolutely no way the game could exist without it, literal days before someone made an offline patch for it. And then EA ended up removing the online requirement themselves. I think their review for that game went through, like, 6 score changes. I believe both of these things were Geis, and should be more of a judgement on him rather than on Polygon as a whole. SpacePig fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 17:01
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Golden Goat posted:I stand by Review scores are bad and Polygon sticking to them when most reviews can veer heavily into more how the game feels is just driving people nuts. Most other content they make is honestly fine. Interestingly, the review is not tied to the score by the writer. Apparently the editors read the review, discuss it and assign the score according to what they believe the text merits for the game. Which is a lot more work for something that shouldn't even be there.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:01
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8-Bit Scholar, I need you to read your first post again:8-Bit Scholar posted:Polygon is a collection of the wimpiest people to ever write about loving video games. and understand that it does not, in any way, sound like someone who wants to engage with another person or have their opinion changed. It's literally "Polygon sucks, here's why it sucks, go here instead." That's a valid opinion to have, but surely you understand why people are not eager to try to change your mind, or even aware that you are willing to change your mind. It all seems pretty set in stone. EDIT: It just seems disingenuous to act like you came in here asking why you should like Polygon, when in fact you did not ask anything at all.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:04
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Golden Goat posted:Watching people badly play games is fun. It was a "first 30 minutes" video, so I'd argue in that context, sucking at the game can paint a poor first impression of said game. That said, it's all subjective, some people actually like the music from Hamilton so I guess there's a market for unrepentant mediocrity out there. thexerox123 posted:Maybe engage by reading the several articles that have been posted, then? Most everything posted was about podcasts and Toad wearing diapers, and my critique was about several articles I'd specifically read, so again, if you have an article that you think demonstrates a particularly great example of Polygon "engaging" with video games in a manner befitting proper criticism, I'd love to see it.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:04
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Serf posted:Interestingly, the review is not tied to the score by the writer. Apparently the editors read the review, discuss it and assign the score according to what they believe the text merits for the game. thats somehow even dumber because its open to the reviewer's thoughts being misinterpreted by the editors
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Aug 31, 2017 17:05
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Most everything posted was about podcasts and Toad wearing diapers, and my critique was about several articles I'd specifically read, so again, if you have an article that you think demonstrates a particularly great example of Polygon "engaging" with video games in a manner befitting proper criticism, I'd love to see it. I already posted it. https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/15/10220184/frog-fractions-2-arg At the time, it was a very good summation of the ARG. And DLC Inc posted two more (better ones than mine) on the same page: https://www.polygon.com/a/life-in-japan https://www.polygon.com/2012/9/28/3425300/the-mirror-men-of-arkane
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Aug 31, 2017 17:06
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Recommending the Game Informer podcast over any of Polygon's shows really shows a huge misunderstanding of what we actually like about Polygon.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:09
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What people like about Polygon in 2017 has basically nothing to do with Arthur Gies and mostly to do with funny people playing videogames on video (and the good podcasts under the site's umbrella).
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Aug 31, 2017 17:14
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Ariong posted:and understand that it does not, in any way, sound like someone who wants to engage with another person or have their opinion changed. Nobody wants to have their opinions changed, pretty much the entire human race functions under a series of perceptions and beliefs that they will double down upon if challenged. My initial post was probably more negative than it needed to be because I was a little baffled by everyone gushing about Polygon, not understanding that for whatever reason this thread was designed for that purpose. thexerox123 posted:I already posted it. I have no idea what the gently caress this is talking about and this isn't a review of a game release as far as I can tell. I've read about four paragraphs in and I guess it's a marketing gimmick for a crowd-funded game? I read through this one and, I mean, maybe I'm just not into these feature-style thinkpieces, but this is way too long also. The whole snippet of the guy offending a bunch of Japanese guys with nuclear bomb footage doesn't really fit with anything and adds more inches to an already really, really long feature. I'm sure there's some interesting developer tid-bits there, but this isn't a critique or commentary on anything, this is a feature about two people and I guess the games they made. This is fine if you're into that sort of thing, but it also demonstrates my problem with Polygon. A story like this doesn't need to be 10 pages long and it doesn't need to be written in this ponderous style. Take this article, open it with the two guys having lunch with Todd from Bethesda, they say "he really gets it", then snap cut to their background in game making, focusing on the work they did and the gameplay concepts they helped pioneer. Have the article help support the main point set forward in the lede, and focus the story on something important to draw from that -- perhaps the nature of engaging players in choice or offering meaningful actions within a game world or a morality system or whatever. So let me give a counterpoint to this, and a criticism of a game that Polygon gave a loving perfect score to: Bioshock Infinite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdNhwb7iuI4 This is what I'd consider a very good critique of a game, because it addresses points of contention, challenges points of praise, and supports its argument in a cleanly efficient manner. This critique offers a lot of insight into what makes games good, bad and meaningful and it does so by focusing almost purely on the game itself, not the person making it.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:19
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I feel bad for clowning on Russ because I really think he's trying but holy poo poo he is objectively bad at PUBG and if he's going to be cameraman he needs to leave the UI off when he's in ghost mode. God. I can't blame Griffo when he starts getting irritated with his teammates for sucking.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:21
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I have no idea what the gently caress this is talking about and this isn't a review of a game release as far as I can tell. I've read about four paragraphs in and I guess it's a marketing gimmick for a crowd-funded game? Jesus Christ, you are the worst. So, you dislike reading, got it. The whole point of why I appreciate that article is because it was covering a game that was doing something unique that most people wouldn't have heard about. So the fact that you just blow it off because you "have no idea what the gently caress it is talking about"... lol. Maybe if you bothered to read it, you could have learned what it was talking about! Imagine that! thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 17:21
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8-Bit Scholar posted:a game that Polygon gave a loving perfect score to: Bioshock Infinite. That review, again, was by Arthur Gies, who has left the company + like I just said has nothing to do with why people actually like the site these days.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:22
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Nobody wants to have their opinions changed, pretty much the entire human race functions under a series of perceptions and beliefs that they will double down upon if challenged. loving lol. "I didn't see anyone get lynched or raped, and man, not even a single n-bomb."
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Aug 31, 2017 17:26
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I think it's weird that anyone reads the website or reviews or whatever, I'm just here for good goofy video content
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Aug 31, 2017 17:27
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The Modern Leper posted:loving lol. Yeah Bioshock Infinite is pretty weak in its racism, seems to kind of white wash its own criticism. thexerox123 posted:Jesus Christ, you are the worst. Yeah, I read five paragraphs and did not understand what it was loving talking about. Again, as far as I can glean, it's a report about the history of an ARG I've never played for a game I've never heard of. I'm not engaged, and I have no basis upon which to judge the quality of the piece itself because I do not know what it is talking about, I have no frame of reference. So the article failed to explain what its subject was and never looked back. If, ten paragraphs down, it succinctly explains what the hell it is talking about, that's way too late.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:32
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bioshock infinite owns because it tries to both-sides literal slavery
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Aug 31, 2017 17:33
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Nobody wants to have their opinions changed, pretty much the entire human race functions under a series of perceptions and beliefs that they will double down upon if challenged. Whatever happened to 8-Bit Scholar posted:"writers" and "critics" Are you open to having your mind changed, or is an unwillingness to change one's mind an unshakable part of the human condition? Stuff like this is why it seems like you're arguing in bad faith. Endorph posted:bioshock infinite owns because it tries to both-sides literal slavery Bioshock Infinite is a game that starts out trying to tell one story, then essentially abandons it for another one halfway through. If they had only stuck to one or the other they could have done it decently, but ugh. At least the gameplay itaelf was fun, though I may be in the minority on that even. More games should take place entirely in a setting where you can always knock enemies into bottomless pits. It's always satisfying. Ariong fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 17:37
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Wanna link this video here too since it is one of my favorite pieces of Polygon content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTdrTalcaU I hope that Griffin and Justin do more of these videos at some point.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:38
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This video is what made me fall in love with Patrick's deadpan shtick: https://youtu.be/013_SxqtH0c
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Aug 31, 2017 17:40
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Polygon staff streaming Destiny 2 Beta right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al9Kec7n1QU Griffin, Russ, and Jake
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Aug 31, 2017 17:40
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Ariong posted:Stuff like this is why it seems like you're arguing in bad faith. His rap sheet is also one of the reasons why it seems like he's arguing in bad faith
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Aug 31, 2017 17:40
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Ariong posted:Are you open to having your mind changed, or is an unwillingness to change one's mind an unshakable part of the human condition? Stuff like this is why it seems like you're arguing in bad faith. Not at all, I'm saying that assuming I don't want my opinion changed isn't the point. Of course I don't want my opinion changed, it's my opinion and I wouldn't hold that opinion if I didn't feel it to be correct. Opinions must change if faced with a compelling enough counter argument that forces one to re-evaluate the basis of that opinion. My opinion is based on the perception that Polygon's writing quality is poor, their writers pretentious and their reviews seem to reflect a want for games to reflect the writer's own reality, not to make statements of their own.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:40
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Not at all, I'm saying that assuming I don't want my opinion changed isn't the point. Of course I don't want my opinion changed, it's my opinion and I wouldn't hold that opinion if I didn't feel it to be correct. Opinions must change if faced with a compelling enough counter argument that forces one to re-evaluate the basis of that opinion. My opinion is based on the perception that Polygon's writing quality is poor, their writers pretentious and their reviews seem to reflect a want for games to reflect the writer's own reality, not to make statements of their own. Nobody here cares if you change your mind, now that you know that this thread is a polygon sycophant circle jerk can you leave us alone or stop posting?
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Aug 31, 2017 17:44
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Not at all, I'm saying that assuming I don't want my opinion changed isn't the point. Of course I don't want my opinion changed, it's my opinion and I wouldn't hold that opinion if I didn't feel it to be correct. Opinions must change if faced with a compelling enough counter argument that forces one to re-evaluate the basis of that opinion. My opinion is based on the perception that Polygon's writing quality is poor, their writers pretentious and their reviews seem to reflect a want for games to reflect the writer's own reality, not to make statements of their own. hey my guy just fyi, you're arguing about the reviews/articles when 99% of the people who like Polygon do it solely because of their video content
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Aug 31, 2017 17:48
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Endorph posted:bioshock infinite owns because it tries to both-sides literal slavery Bioshock Infinite is a game that starts out trying to tell one story, then essentially abandons it for another one halfway through. If they had only stuck to one or the other they could have done it decently, but ugh. At least the gameplay itaelf was fun, though I may be in the minority on that even. More games should take place entirely in a setting where you can always knock enemies into bottomless pits. It's always satisfying. flatluigi posted:His rap sheet is also one of the reasons why it seems like he's arguing in bad faith Meh, I think that's a dumb thing to judge someone by. Sometimes mods are bad and punish people for dumb stuff. (See: low carb thread) Better to just read their posts. 8-Bit Scholar posted:Not at all, I'm saying that assuming I don't want my opinion changed isn't the point. Of course I don't want my opinion changed, it's my opinion and I wouldn't hold that opinion if I didn't feel it to be correct. Opinions must change if faced with a compelling enough counter argument that forces one to re-evaluate the basis of that opinion. My opinion is based on the perception that Polygon's writing quality is poor, their writers pretentious and their reviews seem to reflect a want for games to reflect the writer's own reality, not to make statements of their own. That's all fine, just understand that A) you came in here with a very antagonistic tone and B) even if you hadn't, probably nobody's going to put together an essay explaining why Polygon is good. Like, think abot that. Who's going to put together all that stuff you just said to change someone's opinion of a video game website. Frankly I think you're asking for a lot.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:48
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CainsDescendant posted:This video is what made me fall in love with Patrick's deadpan shtick: https://youtu.be/013_SxqtH0c I 100% thought you were linking to his TOAD Talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMUKRxGPcRI
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Aug 31, 2017 17:52
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Ariong posted:Meh, I think that's a dumb thing to judge someone by. Sometimes mods are bad and punish people for dumb stuff. (See: low carb thread) Better to just read their posts. You can click through to the actual posts they were punished for, you know, and judge for yourself. Personally, I think someone with a history of super virulent transphobia isn't really someone you can trust to be reasonable and isn't worth continuing to argue with, but that's just me. It certainly shows what kind of person they are and where their arguments might actually be rooted in at least!
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Aug 31, 2017 17:53
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Polygon's Witcher 3 review was one I agreed with a lot more than others. I realize my opinion is the minority but the oppressive misogyny and sexism in the game really made it a lot less enjoyable for me (it doesn't really counteract it for me to just be like "lol but thats just how this world is, also geralt actually has a heart of gold")
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Aug 31, 2017 17:55
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i liked that witcher 3 at least acknowledged it and went 'this is really hosed up' even if it was kind of hamhanded sometimes, instead of doing the weird dragon age thing where women can serve openly in the army and sexism is Over but also every third npc drops some really random sexist poo poo on you if you're playing a girl and half the backstories involve rape
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Aug 31, 2017 17:56
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Endorph posted:i liked that witcher 3 at least acknowledged it and went 'this is really hosed up' even if it was kind of hamhanded sometimes, instead of doing the weird dragon age thing where women can serve openly in the army and sexism is Over but also every third npc drops some really random sexist poo poo on you if you're playing a girl and half the backstories involve rape
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Aug 31, 2017 17:58
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It's not so much that this thread is supposed to be a sycophant circle jerk, as it is that this thread is supposed to be a water cooler type zone for current content. People are here to post about new episodes of Monster Factory, not old reviews by someone who no longer even works at the site. "I thought the latest video was kind of phoned in" is an example of a negative post that would make perfect sense for what this thread is supposed to be, whereas "I'm still mad about the Bayonetta 2 review" is a post that would not.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:58
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Ariong posted:That's all fine, just understand that A) you came in here with a very antagonistic tone and B) even if you hadn't, probably nobody's going to put together an essay explaining why Polygon is good. Like, think abot that. Who's going to put together all that stuff you just said to change someone's opinion of a video game website. Frankly I think you're asking for a lot. I am, sure. I didn't ask for an essay, I asked for the person who said I was "spewing garbage" to actually afford a meaningful example of Polygon's best criticism. The fact that the examples offered failed to do that demonstrates that either my opinion on their writing is not want to change or my criticism of their writing is on point, but those who enjoy Polygon like it despite/because of those problems. However, the majority of responses were things like "gamers are babies" or other condescending dumb stuff, so eh. inferis posted:this thread is a polygon sycophant circle jerk flatluigi posted:You can click through to the actual posts they were punished for, you know, and judge for yourself. Personally, I think someone with a history of super virulent transphobia isn't really someone you can trust to be reasonable and isn't worth continuing to argue with, but that's just me. It certainly shows what kind of person they are and where their arguments might actually be rooted in at least! You'll find that it's really easy to find any number of statements a person has said to dismiss what they say outright, and also it's much easier to do that that to respond to any of the actual things they've said. It's fun even! You can basically ignore anybody whom you don't agree with or who has ever expressed a statement you find offensive and you'll never have to question any of your beliefs or opinions at all.
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Aug 31, 2017 17:59
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do you still think trans people are mentally ill op
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Aug 31, 2017 18:02
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I am, sure. I didn't ask for an essay, I asked for the person who said I was "spewing garbage" to actually afford a meaningful example of Polygon's best criticism. The fact that the examples offered failed to do that demonstrates that either my opinion on their writing is not want to change or my criticism of their writing is on point, but those who enjoy Polygon like it despite/because of those problems. 
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Aug 31, 2017 18:05
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