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ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



Morand posted:

And tournament be done as it’s late Sunday and I don’t think Andy and torrent are playing their game.

You guys want to take a break for awhile? Seems like enthusiasm was lessened for this event. If anyone else wants in let me know, it’s all Roll20 so you ain’t gotta buy poo poo. Haven’t played in awhile and want to dip your toes back in? This is it!

Let me know! This is also a nice stress free way to try out the new rules as well. Andy and I tried out the new willpower rules and such in a test game and it wasn’t terrible.

… and poo poo, I just realized I forgot about our game. In my defense, I had to deal with Things™, including the stress of getting a replacement vehicle for my wife (a 2008 Prius). Bollocks. Yeah, let's maybe give it until March before the next one. Maybe announce what it is and give people time to plan. Maybe more people will decide to join in.

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Morand
Apr 15, 2004

1: Start New Game
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3: Start New Game




ManiacClown posted:

… and poo poo, I just realized I forgot about our game. In my defense, I had to deal with Things™, including the stress of getting a replacement vehicle for my wife (a 2008 Prius). Bollocks. Yeah, let's maybe give it until March before the next one. Maybe announce what it is and give people time to plan. Maybe more people will decide to join in.

We played Monday so you’re fine.

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



Morand posted:

We played Monday so you’re fine.

Oh, right. See what I mean about a bollocks week?

Morand
Apr 15, 2004

1: Start New Game
2: Start New Game
3: Start New Game




Well if anyone wants to try I figured we could do one of the following.


1. Sealed Future Foundation. (Boosters will be generated using Random.org using formulas posted earlier)
2. Constructed 300 or 600 depending on everyones taste

We can wait till Mid March or so if anyone else would like to join. And a reminder that everything is free on roll20 so it don't cost poo poo.

Steve Vader
Apr 29, 2005

Everyone's Playing!



I would like to do either an FFFF sealed or FFFF constructed, but I just don't know when I'll have time. I'm about to have four adults living in my house and be the only one with a job for the immediate future (long story, some drat disease is involved).

I'm also now wondering if I was stupid and accidentally threw away the cards for the FF starter set, because they are not where i think they should be.

Morand
Apr 15, 2004

1: Start New Game
2: Start New Game
3: Start New Game




There are previews going around Facebook from wizkids China about a new xmen set with an ultra chase birthday Deadpool

Steve Vader
Apr 29, 2005

Everyone's Playing!



Goddammit, this better not hurt the resale value of my Unicorn Deadpool. I was just about to break my own heart and sell it because money sucks.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.



Now they're making more Hellfire Club guards.

I don't understand the reference for Blob in a Hawaiian shirt.

Torrent
Apr 18, 2003
" . . . "

Red posted:

I don't understand the reference for Blob in a Hawaiian shirt.

Modern Blob runs a tiki bar on Krakoa, and pretty much always has a Hawaiian shirt on.

Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"




I was disappointed with my brick of Future Foundation, but Blackbeard brings me so much joy.

Also, I ended up getting a Skrull pack with Lyja and the Skrull FF.

Steve Vader
Apr 29, 2005

Everyone's Playing!



Open Marriage Night posted:

I was disappointed with my brick of Future Foundation, but Blackbeard brings me so much joy.

Also, I ended up getting a Skrull pack with Lyja and the Skrull FF.

I did too. I liked my brick though. Just need to get Psycho Man, HERBIE, Uatu, Rare Torch and UC Thing and unload my Grievers and Marquis of Death and I'm golden.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



My friend got a case and pulled Time Platform Doom, Utau and both Diablos.

But what I really want to talk about is the Legacy Cards. They would be an excellent idea if I could read a single letter on the card. We were both floored by how blindingly sparkly they were. He had to look at the card under a sheet to block all direct light just to read the bolded power names. Although it's amusing to watch someone throw a sheet over themselves with reading glasses and a magnifying glass like they're a medieval monk about to read porn, I don't think it's going to be conducive to an enjoyable game.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.



Father Wendigo posted:

My friend got a case and pulled Time Platform Doom, Utau and both Diablos.

But what I really want to talk about is the Legacy Cards. They would be an excellent idea if I could read a single letter on the card. We were both floored by how blindingly sparkly they were. He had to look at the card under a sheet to block all direct light just to read the bolded power names. Although it's amusing to watch someone throw a sheet over themselves with reading glasses and a magnifying glass like they're a medieval monk about to read porn, I don't think it's going to be conducive to an enjoyable game.

Are the cards misprinted since they all seem to have the Captain America set logo?

Morand
Apr 15, 2004

1: Start New Game
2: Start New Game
3: Start New Game




Some people zoomed in on the new PAC and saw some power changes for the new rules.

Charge now no longer protects against knockback and the attack it grants is FREE so no more Vulture prime nonsense.
Stealth does not block line of fire if you are adjacent, so yes you can outwit batman in a bush if you are next to him
Forceblast can be used at range
Leapclimb just grants a ton of improved movement, no more attacking different elevations
Running Shot's attack is also now as FREE

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.



Morand posted:

Stealth does not block line of fire if you are adjacent, so yes you can outwit batman in a bush if you are next to him

Hiding in a bush is like the only thing Batman has, this is outrageous

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

"I can punch you but I can't see you" was dumb as hell and I won't miss it.

Steve Vader
Apr 29, 2005

Everyone's Playing!



Morand posted:

Some people zoomed in on the new PAC and saw some power changes for the new rules.

Charge now no longer protects against knockback and the attack it grants is FREE so no more Vulture prime nonsense.
Stealth does not block line of fire if you are adjacent, so yes you can outwit batman in a bush if you are next to him
Forceblast can be used at range
Leapclimb just grants a ton of improved movement, no more attacking different elevations
Running Shot's attack is also now as FREE


Also, there's no longer a roll for Force Blast. It's just a flat 3 spaces, which is now the max for all knockback. And also, there is no longer knockback damage.

My wife loves Frog-Man. I'm afraid she will be sad about all this.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.



CapnAndy posted:

"I can punch you but I can't see you" was dumb as hell and I won't miss it.

No disagreement here; it's such a confusing concept to teach to newer players, I wish they'd made that change a long time ago.

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



Eliminating "I can punch you but I can't see you" is maybe the best rules change they've ever made. I also 100% agree with Charge no longer preventing knockback. That never made sense to me. Just because you CAN plow ahead really hard that doesn't mean you're doing it constantly.

Morand
Apr 15, 2004

1: Start New Game
2: Start New Game
3: Start New Game




Andy and I did a for fun 600 point game with as much of the new rules as we know.

It was the Von Dooms

God Emperor Doom
Susan Von Doom
Valeria Von Doom
Franklin Von Doom
Sheriff Strange

Versus

HOX Juggernaut
Jason Wyngarde
XPDS Magneto who can sometimes TK twice
Mother
R Destiny from Unleashed
The WKO Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch
Hox Black Tom
Sideline of Waldo and Sikorsky and CAAV Captain Marvel

This was partly a thought experiment as I thought that the Von Dooms could be wrecked by a decent Brotherhood team with Juggernaut and Andy didn't. The only other time we've managed to beat von doom involved an extremely cheesy Avengers Murder Squad led by a pre-erratta Black Widow.


Andy won map roll which was bad, and put us on the ROC Pit Fight Map. He moved up onto the elevated, basically daring me to come in range. I moved out and he blew up blocking as he rolled well on leadership and willpower to basically be tokenless. Sadly Andy was not able to see that he had placed doom near stairs and with some TK and a heavy object and a maximum perplexed attack value Juggernaut was able to charge just behind doom and hit doom for the max damage he can take. Quicksilver was able to plink him for 1 to take him off the wrath of doom power as that is positively frightening. With Juggernaut in their midst stopping all the stat mods the Von Dooms were a bit flummoxed. Doom managed to hit Juggernaut but he rolled impervious. Next turn Black tom managed to hit for 2 from range on Von Doom, Juggernaut hit him to last click and Quicksilver finished off the God Emperor. We called the game there as Juggernaut was going to just oneshot anyone else left on that team.

That new Juggernaut is something else. My hat off to Tyler, he staked his claim as probably the best champ designed figure.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

I am extremely salty right now, both because I lost a game to my own colorblindess and also because we’ve played on that map before a bunch of times and I couldn’t see the stairs then either, I thought those balconies were inviolate.

Steve Vader
Apr 29, 2005

Everyone's Playing!



If you knock back someone in the path of stairs, do they go up stairs or hit the elevated and stop?

Morand
Apr 15, 2004

1: Start New Game
2: Start New Game
3: Start New Game




Steve Vader posted:

If you knock back someone in the path of stairs, do they go up stairs or hit the elevated and stop?

Hit elevated and stop.

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



Morand posted:

Hit elevated and stop.

That's even a current thing. If you'd cross a transition downwards, you fall and stop. If you'd cross upwards, you stop and that's it. I think it causes knockback damage, but I guess that'll end soon.

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



Reddit has pictures of the 2021 PAC. It looks like Quake is back to dealing a standard 2 damage unless "1+" unintuitively means "more than one."

EDIT: Reading Pulse Wave, it looks like it's now also "1+". Either they really didn't think about their language use or they're reining in the ability to have PW tac-nukes.

ManiacClown fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Mar 8, 2021

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

1+ has always meant "one or more" and Steal Energy uses the same terminology, so unless you can't Steal Energy unless you hit at least two dudes, PW and Quake took a huge nerf.

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



CapnAndy posted:

1+ has always meant "one or more" and Steal Energy uses the same terminology, so unless you can't Steal Energy unless you hit at least two dudes, PW and Quake took a huge nerf.

That really is a shame about Quake, I think. I liked that change that allowed you to deal full damage while also causing knockback. The wording is also stupid. "If 1+ characters were targeted" is kind of inherently implied in what you're doing! In fact, it's explicitly necessary. IF? Holy poo poo, where's the Tylenol?

It looks like they realized how stupid it was to have both "Protected: ____" and "PROTECTED: ____" and have them mean two slightly different things. They seem to have replaced PROTECTED with SAFEGUARD. That makes a lot more sense to do.

ManiacClown fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 8, 2021

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

2021 rules updates are live! Rulebook and PAC.

The immediate problem is that the rulebook reads like a Quick-Start Guide. It'd be great for that, with its chatty tone and constant images that have nothing to do with the rules, and focus on the stuff included with the battlegrounds set. Unfortunately, WizKids seems to have forgotten two pretty basic facts about rulebooks; first, that this will be the rules for more sets than just WW, and second, if a rule isn't in the rulebook, it doesn't exist.

Apparent rule changes because they were too busy using informal language and being cutesy:
- You can only win the game by KOing all your opponent's figures, or by completing a scenario card, which aren't a thing in regular games. (For now. Who knows.) So much for the mercy rule or mission points, I guess?
- There's no such thing as victory points any more.
- You can act when you have two action tokens. Everyone's OG Galactus!
- Every game only has three actions per turn, regardless of point total, and it can't be modified.
- There's no difference between indoor and outdoor maps/terrain.
- Penetrating damage is never defined.
- Unavoidable damage no longer exists.
- You can choose what direction you do knockback in, so long as it is "away". ("Away" was never defined in the 2019 rulebook either, but at least there they gave concrete examples and told you what to do in case it wasn't in a perfect direct path.) Knockback is now a place effect that isn't stopped by anything, so have fun getting knocked back and teleporting through walls. (The rulebook does say "if something would block a knocked back character they aren't knocked back any farther", so the intent is clearly not for this, but it's so vague as to be meaningless. What blocks knockback? Farther along what, exactly, when knockback doesn't follow a path any more?)
- Destroyed walls leave debris markers that are not hindering terrain.
- No limit on sidelines whatsoever, not number of figures and not the rule that they have to be there for a purpose.
- Replace is no longer a game effect. Bad news for Shifting Focus and Secret Identity, hope those mechanics aren't in Wonder Woman or anything!
- Equip is no longer a game effect. Hope there's no equipment either!
- Fliers can carry fliers again, and carrying doesn't reduce your speed.
- Characters on "the rim" can be targeted by anyone at any elevation, and no other squares of elevated terrain will interfere with line of fire to or from them.

"Standard character" is not defined and the rule about the game ending if only bystanders are left are both missing, but those weren't in the 2019 core rulebook either.

Also, Perplex technically still works, but figuring out that it does is incredibly obtuse because the rules for attacking and doing damage only mention values, with no indication that they can be modified. You'd have to read that, then Perplex on the PAC, then Replace Then Modify also on the PAC to figure it out. Have fun, new players.

CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 8, 2021

Sanschel
Aug 9, 2002



It also now an explicitly stated part of game setup that you must first greet your opponent, so enjoy watching meltdowns when a guy calls a judge over to DQ their opponent for not saying “Hi.”

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



CapnAndy posted:

2021 rules updates are live! Rulebook and PAC.

The immediate problem is that the rulebook reads like a Quick-Start Guide. It'd be great for that, with its chatty tone and constant images that have nothing to do with the rules, and focus on the stuff included with the battlegrounds set. Unfortunately, WizKids seems to have forgotten two pretty basic facts about rulebooks; first, that this will be the rules for more sets than just WW, and second, if a rule isn't in the rulebook, it doesn't exist.

Apparent rule changes because they were too busy using informal language and being cutesy:
- You can only win the game by KOing all your opponent's figures, or by completing a scenario card, which aren't a thing in regular games. (For now. Who knows.) So much for the mercy rule or mission points, I guess?
- There's no such thing as victory points any more.
- You can act when you have two action tokens. Everyone's OG Galactus!
- Every game only has three actions per turn, regardless of point total, and it can't be modified.
- There's no difference between indoor and outdoor maps/terrain.
- Penetrating damage is never defined.
- Unavoidable damage no longer exists.
- You can choose what direction you do knockback in, so long as it is "away". ("Away" was never defined in the 2019 rulebook either, but at least there they gave concrete examples and told you what to do in case it wasn't in a perfect direct path.) Knockback is now a place effect that isn't stopped by anything, so have fun getting knocked back and teleporting through walls. (The rulebook does say "if something would block a knocked back character they aren't knocked back any farther", so the intent is clearly not for this, but it's so vague as to be meaningless. What blocks knockback? Farther along what, exactly, when knockback doesn't follow a path any more?)
- Destroyed walls leave debris markers that are not hindering terrain.
- No limit on sidelines whatsoever, not number of figures and not the rule that they have to be there for a purpose.
- Replace is no longer a game effect. Bad news for Shifting Focus and Secret Identity, hope those mechanics aren't in Wonder Woman or anything!
- Equip is no longer a game effect. Hope there's no equipment either!
- Fliers can carry fliers again, and carrying doesn't reduce your speed.
- Characters on "the rim" can be targeted by anyone at any elevation, and no other squares of elevated terrain will interfere with line of fire to or from them.

"Standard character" is not defined and the rule about the game ending if only bystanders are left are both missing, but those weren't in the 2019 core rulebook either.

Also, Perplex technically still works, but figuring out that it does is incredibly obtuse because the rules for attacking and doing damage only mention values, with no indication that they can be modified. You'd have to read that, then Perplex on the PAC, then Replace Then Modify also on the PAC to figure it out. Have fun, new players.

"Oh, no, Ren! We broke it too many times!"

Holy goddamn balls. Watch them put the full rulebook online only, saying it's the REAL rulebook and the one included with the WW starter is only a quick-start despite not saying so. Maybe in the future they shouldn't focus so much on distilling it down to only 15 weird-sized pages, some of which don't have any rules text on them. I mean, the illustrations are great and all, but TEXT loving MATTERS!

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



Ha. I just noticed that under Battle Fury it says "opposing character [sic] can't use Shape Change." They didn't even proofread the damned thing adequately.

Mutant Headcrab
May 14, 2007


WW80 Battlegrounds map uses alternating green/white lines for Hindering. The PAC lists hindering terrain as an alternating green/white line. There is nothing in the new rules or PAC which identifies a solid green line. Ergo, all prior maps no longer have hindering terrain.

Mutant Headcrab fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 9, 2021

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


ManiacClown posted:

Ha. I just noticed that under Battle Fury it says "opposing character [sic] can't use Shape Change." They didn't even proofread the damned thing adequately.

The back of the box of the starter also says it features many "heroes and villians".

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



Mutant Headcrab posted:

WW80 Battlegrounds map uses alternating green/white lines for Hindering. The PAC lists hindering terrain as an alternating green/white line. There is nothing in the new rules or PAC which identifies a solid green line. Ergo, all prior maps no longer have hindering terrain.

I'm sure they'll put out that clarification via a forum ruling— you know, the best way to do it for new players to see.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Full figure gallery is up for Wonder Woman, possibly unintentionally? So check it out while you can, this is awfully early for that. Ch'p is in!

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!



CapnAndy posted:

Full figure gallery is up for Wonder Woman, possibly unintentionally? So check it out while you can, this is awfully early for that. Ch'p is in!

I notice what appears to be a prime Black Lantern Wonder Woman.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



CapnAndy posted:

Full figure gallery is up for Wonder Woman, possibly unintentionally? So check it out while you can, this is awfully early for that. Ch'p is in!

Aw, I missed it. Is it up anywhere on HCR?

Torrent
Apr 18, 2003
" . . . "

Father Wendigo posted:

Aw, I missed it. Is it up anywhere on HCR?

It's still showing up for me. Just need to scroll down a lot.

Morand
Apr 15, 2004

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3: Start New Game




Torrent posted:

It's still showing up for me. Just need to scroll down a lot.

Ditto, just scroll to the bottom.

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Morand
Apr 15, 2004

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So it's been about a month or so. Would anyone like to try to do a Roll20 Tournament again?

We can do Future Foundation Sealed if everyone likes that or something else I don't care.

If we can get more then Me, Andy, Torrent, and Maniac I could maybe toss in a prize for shits.

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