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TFRazorsaw posted:I'm wondering, honestly, how much of Metroid 2's atmosphere is actually deliberate and how much is technical limitations. The ending of the original game definitely feels tense and has buildup to it in an intentional way, even with the black-and-white and the limited background details they could use on the GB. You have the whole Nesting Ground section which looks even more alien/freaky than the rest of the game with the bubble shafts that's rough because of the Omegas. Right after that is the long corridor segments that leadas into giant empty rooms to make you feel suspicious. That leads into the final hallways with the larva metroids almost exactly like Tourian from the first Metroid game, unmistakably a ramp up in tension since it's a signal to players that something is coming up. Then it goes into the last corridor filled with tons of (new!) spikes everywhere where you drop into the Queen's lair, which naturally ends the progression of Metroid evolution stages you've been fighting up until that point. A lot of this comes with new and slightly creepier music, just like Tourian from the first game. If none of this mattered or was intentional, they would've thrown in lovely enemies everywhere, or just used the same music and backgrounds like they did for the rest of the game. Or not have as many long narrow empty corridors in general. Limitations hurt Metroid 2 in a LOT of ways. Limited crappy movement, colors, some samey rooms, and lack of enemy diversity. But that didn't stop it from having a clear ending sequence that rivals the ending of the first game. The fact that AM2R kept this ending sequence almost exactly the same, despite AM2R changing so much else around the whole game, says how clear and effective that design was. TFRazorsaw posted:
I get where you're coming from, I really do. People say this all the time, especially when it comes to sequence breaking poo poo with the series which makes it when people see stuff that was never really there. But a lot of the atmosphere really is clearly intended to be there. It's no coincidence that the series went from the tense moments like the endings of Metroid 1+2, and then went further and made the intro to SM and the Wrecked Ship, or Metroid Fusion's SA-X and the part where the power drains from the station, or Metroid Prime's intro that goes into all the other tense poo poo in that game, and etc. This all didn't come from thin air because they decided to be more tense starting with Super; the series was always trying to do this, even if there wasn't as much they could do back then. People exaggerate a lot of aspects of Metroid, but atmosphere is not one of those things.
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Sep 17, 2017 13:23
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I beat the game last night, 7:30 with 60% without backtracking for more powerups, not bad!? this game is basically split into three thirds for me, where the first third is ok, the middle third drags, and the last third is tons of fun. I was getting really worried about how I would feel walking away from this game until I got the (area 5(6?) powers) gravity suit, plasma beam, screw attack trifecta. The game got five times better for me, and I think it's because I barely used the counter at all from that point on, even though I liked using the counter earlier... still need to figure out how I feel about it I suppose. some spoiler thoughts everything about the robot sucked. the chase sequence was awful. one hit kills in a metroid game???? the boss fight itself sucks too, although i may just be saying that because i only had 10 hp by the end of it and i had to wait 3 loops before finally getting the last bomb in. there are several times in the game when you see giant monsters moving around in the background and it's like, gee, it would be cool to fight that instead of th edumbass robot the magmoor caverns music is cool but it felt really jarring and out of place compared to all the atmospheric tracks in the game. the omega metroids are so much fun to fight! they're scary at first but if you just get into their poo poo and stay aggressive they usually don't have a lot to counter with. I'm not sure if this is a glitch but if you keep shooting at the shell as it recharges it quickly breaks and stays broken. it's a little silly that there's a specific scary song for larva metroids in the lead up to the queen when this is easily the cutest they have been in the series. Augus posted:ENDING SPOILERS I agree with you that putting power ups and enemies in the period between finding the baby metroid to the ridley fight really ruins things. I almost died right after the Queen fight because, as someone who has played a lot of Metroid 2, my brain was just not prepared for it. Also, while I like the idea of having the baby able to hang out with you as you get power ups, having it be a necessary thing for like 10% of upgrades was a poor choice. Many of them are just going to be power bombs... this is a problem 2D metroids since Fusion have had, I feel. Speed booster would have been great, but I'm a little happy that I don't have to deal with crazy speed booster puzzles this time around.
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Sep 17, 2017 14:30
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TFRazorsaw posted:I'm wondering, honestly, how much of Metroid 2's atmosphere is actually deliberate and how much is technical limitations.
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Sep 17, 2017 15:29
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The robot rules actually. That it check points between the major chase sections makes the one hit kill aspect a non issue. I also like the game's ending changes due to how they re-contextualize the baby metroid in cool ways without forcing a bunch of sexist garbage down your gullet like other m did. The way the baby tries to get at Ridley the way it eventually does with Mother Brain but fails is really endearing. Also that whole segment feels like an apology for other M because its loving meta ridley(Sakamoto said Prime wasn't canon when he was making other m) and Samus doesn't have a fuckin PTSD episode upon his return she just does what she always does and kills him for the nth time.
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Sep 17, 2017 16:19
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This game rules and i love it.
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Sep 17, 2017 16:25
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Sakamoto never said Prime wasn't canon. He said it was parallel or something like that. I mean I'm not gonna pretend he's not made some genuinely bad decisions but everyone makes a conceited effort to cast whatever he says in the worst possible light or outright misrepresent him. I don't understand why; it just leads to misinformation getting spread around and treated like fact.
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Sep 17, 2017 17:28
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i just hit area 4 and my understanding is there's like... 7 areas, though area 7 is smaller than the rest even so hot drat this game is bigger than i thought it would be, but also i say that as someone who never played metroid 2. while i don't think this will really come close to usurping zero mission as my favorite metroid this is still far better than i ever expected it would be
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Sep 17, 2017 18:17
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The canon stuff was people misreading this interview when he used the word parallel, because the question/answer wasn't talking directly about story continuity. You can see it in a later interview too where he said explicitly that prime series was in the same timeline. Both of these questions were focusing on general series direction, not story timelines.
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Sep 17, 2017 18:20
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though something small that bugs me about samus returns is just how early you get the spider ball. judging by how this game progresses i don't feel there are many opportunities for sequence breaking but getting spider ball so early just throws any notion of getting ANYTHING early out the window because you can now literally climb walls. part in why i like zero mission so much is that once you got good at the game, with wall jumps and bomb jumps you could break the hell out of it. i loved getting the varia suit early. samus returns i never really get that feeling. the most i really accomplish is doing some bomb jumps to solve a puzzle in a way when i very well could have done it the intended way; like skipping some grapple points and instead just jumping up to the end ledge. did metroid 2 even really have much in the terms of power ups or sequence breaking?
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Sep 17, 2017 18:25
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Just finished Samus Returns! Final time with all items was 9:46. Was really into that Ridley fight at the end, had me on pins and needles dodging. Mercury Steam should be commended for how the boss fights were done.
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Sep 17, 2017 18:28
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Metroid 2 is very linear, as I understand it. I've never had much a head for speed running but it only has a few real cases of that and I think some are accidental.
Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 18:29
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Kaubocks posted:though something small that bugs me about samus returns is just how early you get the spider ball. judging by how this game progresses i don't feel there are many opportunities for sequence breaking but getting spider ball so early just throws any notion of getting ANYTHING early out the window because you can now literally climb walls. Not really, everything was gated by murder-acid. The Spider Ball was one of the first power-ups in the original too, I have less-than-fond memories of ponderously climbing every surface.
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Sep 17, 2017 18:31
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Metroid 2 was extremely linear. The game followed a Go to Area -> Find all the items -> Kill the leftover Metroids -> repeat progression. Though I suppose you could argue that once you got to an area you could either go get the items or fight Metroids first, and that the order in which you got the items there was up to you. You could skip a lot of items though, since there weren't really any barriers put in place to prevent players from going somewhere. Spider Ball was definitely required, and you needed to explore to find Missiles since you didn't start with enough of them to actually kill an Omega Metroid. Space Jump, Screw Attack, Varia Suit, and Spring Ball and High Jump were all conveniences, all the beams were just helpful except Ice Beam which you could find an extra copy of right at the end of the game. Actually, while Space Jump wasn't required it was recommended because Area 7 had some nasty spike-filled hallways that could only be passed without taking damage by space jumping through them. So while there wasn't any sequence-breaking in 2, there was the option to just ignore most of the items, mostly because Spider Ball, while slow, could be used to bypass pretty much every other mobility upgrade. Samus Returns is definitely a linear experience, but that's likely because it's following the structure of the original game. At least adding in things you can backtrack for makes revisiting Areas have a purpose. There was absolutely no reason to return to areas after you left them in the original unless you missed an item because you could get everything in an area once you found all the upgrades there.
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Sep 17, 2017 18:39
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TFRazorsaw posted:Metroid 2 is very linear, as I understand it. I've never had much a head for speed running but it only has a few real cases of that and I think some are accidental. i'm not much a speedrunner either, i just like sequence breaking because it was fun FPzero posted:Metroid 2 was extremely linear. ah, neat, i didn't realize there was that much stuff in a gameboy metroid to be honest. i have no qualms with samus returns adhering to its roots it just loses something from what i liked about other metroids i suppose! but that's not necessarily something you could fix without deviating away from being "a metroid 2 remake"
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Sep 17, 2017 18:44
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Honestly, I want to see MercurySteam given the chance to make a totally new Metroid with this engine. Given that they had to work around the original concept of Metroid 2 and were still as creative with upgrades and mechanics as they were, I want to see what they can do when they have total conceptual control over an entry.
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Sep 17, 2017 18:47
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FPzero posted:Honestly, I want to see MercurySteam given the chance to make a totally new Metroid with this engine. Given that they had to work around the original concept of Metroid 2 and were still as creative with upgrades and mechanics as they were, I want to see what they can do when they have total conceptual control over an entry. There's a pretty good tease for what an original game by them would be if you check the options gallery after getting 100%. Seems like it could be cool as hell.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:09
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FPzero posted:You absolutely can. It's extremely helpful when fighting Metroids. Yeah I guess I was just letting go of L at the same time or before I let go of Y. Relatedly: god I loving wish you could set missile mode to toggle
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Sep 17, 2017 19:19
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FPzero posted:Samus Returns is definitely a linear experience, but that's likely because it's following the structure of the original game. Eh there are some things they do that needlessly add linearity. Like requiring the Spazer Beam to open doors to progress. Like, just...why?
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Sep 17, 2017 19:35
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FPzero posted:Honestly, I want to see MercurySteam given the chance to make a totally new Metroid with this engine. Given that they had to work around the original concept of Metroid 2 and were still as creative with upgrades and mechanics as they were, I want to see what they can do when they have total conceptual control over an entry. Yeah but next time on Switch please at 1080p)60fps with a nice comfortable controller with more buttons. Honestly more than anything that controller. I love this game but it hurts.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:36
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I beat Samus Returns! 9:53 clear time with 100% items. The game has some bits that I'm not too keen on, and there's some things here and there that I think the origional/AM2R did better, but overall, this has been a pretty fantastic game. I really wanna see what MercurySteam could do making an entirely brand new Metroid game now.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:40
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Augus posted:Eh there are some things they do that needlessly add linearity. Like requiring the Spazer Beam to open doors to progress. Like, just...why? it's the linear metroid fusion style of item progression in a more non-linear environment.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:42
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Color Printer posted:Relatedly: god I loving wish you could set missile mode to toggle Why is the spider ball not a toggle if it's that slow aaaaaaaaaaaaaggghhhh
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Sep 17, 2017 19:46
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i just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how to get a collectible i was missing, got frustrated, looked it up, and found out i already got it but my map didn't update. i sure hope this doesn't lock me out of 100%
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Sep 17, 2017 21:51
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Metroixer posted:i just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how to get a collectible i was missing, got frustrated, looked it up, and found out i already got it but my map didn't update. That's weird, which one was it? Also how does it appear on your map?
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Sep 17, 2017 22:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQfeAMys-xQ&t=604s it's the next missile expansion from where the timestamp starts. on my game it's just a circle on the map. in that small gap where the player picks up the missile there's nothing on my screen so... i guess either i got it earlier or it just flat out disappeared. The game heard me talking poo poo and is punishing me
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Sep 17, 2017 22:15
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I had the æion disabled effet stick to me after it was reenabled earlier. There do seem to be a few bugs. have you tried saving, restarting, and loading the save? IF they're storing it sanely, with only a single flag for each collectable, it should snap into one configuration or the other... but that's kind of a big if because game developers suck at data model design almost as much as they do ACID. Keiya fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 22:22
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Ok after saving and reloading it came back. Still, yeah, people who are going to try to 100% speedrun this thing might get a nasty surprise.
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Sep 17, 2017 22:36
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In Area 5 or 6 or something. Just encountered the first Omega. Those things are not screwing around. I'm enjoying it, except I hate having to hold down R to use a bunch of missiles and the robot's wall of doom sucked. I played the original Metroid 2 waaaay back in the day. The little crystal blocks in various areas that block your way and look like the ones from the very end of Metroid 2, what am I like supposed to bring the Baby Metroid back if I want to get all this poo poo? I saw an earlier post that the acid was there to keep the Metroids sealed. Is there still a direct exit to the surface after the Queen Metroid's layer? Seems like a weird oversight. Also, can the Metroids use elevators? :p. ....I probably should not apply too much logic to this stuff.
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Sep 18, 2017 01:57
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Just finished area... 3 I think? The first one where you have to find ten. That one felt like a bit of a slog cause there was only one real powerup there that I know of. Glad I've seen people say this next one has a bunch of stuff.
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Sep 18, 2017 03:59
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i'm fighting a robot in area 6 and this battle goes on waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too god damned long
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Sep 18, 2017 04:50
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Kaubocks posted:i'm fighting a robot in area 6 and this battle goes on waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too god damned long use the rapid fire ability, you tear through phases with that.
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Sep 18, 2017 04:52
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i was, what wasn't helping is that i died three times either way there are just so many phases and attacks and i can't believe even at the very end you still have to line up the poo poo on his face that's just so excessive
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Sep 18, 2017 05:08
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You can lay bombs into his suction move to speed up the fight.
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Sep 18, 2017 05:12
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This chase sequence is poo poo never give Metroid to these chucklefucks again
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Sep 18, 2017 05:14
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Kaubocks posted:i'm fighting a robot in area 6 and this battle goes on waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too god damned long when he uses the suction, keep spider ball on and just bomb into his suction to speed up the fight, and keep some aeon for lightning armor for when you bomb the last phase's weakpoint
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Sep 18, 2017 05:24
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i've already beaten the robot boss, i wasn't really coming here looking for tips. i knew about the bombs in the suction, in fact i thought that was the only way to proceed during the final phase because he never once stuck his head out except to be bombed the robot is just beyond involved for a boss fight compared to what else you fight in this game. it comes across like they originally planned to have you fight it multiple times but then they turned one encounter into just meeting it, another into a chase sequence, and then dumped all three fights back to back in a single battle
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Sep 18, 2017 06:17
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ah, yeah. it took me a while for me to figure out how to fight it and it just felt like it dragged on way longer than it should have at least the ending for it was worth it
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Sep 18, 2017 06:24
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samus blind firing into its face for the final blow was extremely cathartic i'll admit
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Sep 18, 2017 06:28
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Final time was about 9:15 and however many seconds with 100% item completion. Really enjoyed the game overall! I'll definitely be giving Fusion Mode a whirl, even though I still hadn't quite mastered the counters by the end of the game.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:32
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first clear, 58.7% in 08:41:08. I doubt I'll be getting more percent than that because I never do in these games but I might try hard mode. (if it makes things harder in more interesting ways than just bumping up damage.) I agree that murderrobot was too long/had too many 'gotcha' things to learn. having you damage him in an entirely different way at the end and having to line up the glowing bits is a bit much metroid queen was good, but I thought it was much harder than it actually was at first because the first few times I fought it I didn't realize you could use spiderball to cling to the floor/ceiling and avoid getting blown backwards, so I took several tanks of damage every time it did that. and also I was trying to dodge the green balls with space jump during that part. ridley fight was good full stop. I wish normal missles worked on him though. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 06:59
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