Bonfire of the Genres: Critical Looks Sci-Fi and Fantasy

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Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Mel Mudkiper posted:

There are thoughts bubbling in my head about how the genre fan's obsession with "officiality" and "canon" are based on an aversion to criticality but the argument is still in the infant stage

Not sure what needs to be elaborated. It's pretty drat obvious on its face.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2018 17:49

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 21:27

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

How is that different from any other day and age?

And remarkably, that defence is only ever applied to fiction that is bad, like Warhammer novels.

I'm pretty sure that porfiria's post was meant as a condemnation of the readers, not a defense of the books.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2018 21:53

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Lyon posted:

I think it's the same basic premise as to why people get upset that a movie or TV show is reset by a large sequence being a dream. If you've committed time and energy to the story, if you've had some sort of emotional response or connection to the characters, then that connection is now invalidated moving forward. Those characters might still exist but they'll be fundamentally different in all new works or they may no longer exist at all and will no longer be written professionally. So someone spent the last 20 years reading Star Wars EU and, while they can always read those books and enjoy them, there will never be a professional author writing new works about those characters that they loved. It has no bearing on the literary merit of the books (or whatever metric you're using to say the distinction has no merit) but there is still an emotional response. Only a small select few get truly upset but they're the only ones posting about it since no one else cares so they get attention.

It's like when a college sports program is forced to vacate victories because of illegal recruiting that wasn't proven until years later. The games were still played and won and it has no real impact on anyone's day to day lives but fans will still get really upset (although there are potentially longer term implications for the program but let's keep this simple).

The reason that people hate when it was all a dream is that it's awful storytelling.

Edit: Unless that's the whole point, like in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.

Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Mar 26, 2018

# ¿ Mar 26, 2018 21:56

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Each page isn't actually a page but the image of a page.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2018 22:10

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Titus Groan is actually the first book.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2018 06:04

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Just LMAO if you have ever wasted your time reading anything worse than Under the Volcano.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2018 05:25

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Goodkind and Eddings are dead horses. Our dear lamp isn't interested in redundancy.

# ¿ May 25, 2018 05:45

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

I love that the idea that YA books are for kids has become a hot take.

# ¿ May 26, 2018 02:30

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

chernobyl kinsman posted:

1 Corinthians 11

Ah, but That One C. S. Lewis Quote.

# ¿ May 29, 2018 03:26

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

PetraCore posted:

Lots of people started reading specific series when they were themselves children or teenagers. The only YA I still read is stuff that's still going that I started young, which I don't see as particularly shameful.

EDIT: Like it's the book version of comfort food. Who cares?

I'd be a lot less irritated if people weren't making gunk like The Hunger Games and The Fault in Our Stars their primary reading material (and then often self-identifying as "readers" for it on top of that, which is dumb enough when it's done by people who read grown-up books). You're right; there's no shame in kicking back with an easy read. But that's not the attitude I see in the thread (or in other places on the Internet) at all. Half the time (especially on Twitter), people all but try to pass off reading YA books as a political statement. It's such a joke.

# ¿ May 29, 2018 03:41

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I thought the Fault in Our Stars was really good but for reasons that no one else brings up. Had a surprisingly unflinching view of the body horror of cancer that contrasted the usual romantic cliches.

Quit loving a child and read Cancer Ward.

# ¿ May 29, 2018 04:54

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

ShinsoBEAM! posted:

Almost nobody will outright say yes I prefer bland generic protagonist over a well characterized protagonist. But most people are okay with them as long as the rest of it is "good", meanwhile a bad protagonist will shoot the story in the foot for many a reason to a variety of people oftentimes for the exact opposite reason. It's generally fine if you hate a side character, but hating the main character will kill your book so making them mildly disappointing and bland is a safe way to ensure the reader isn't repulsed.

edit: This is difficult for me because I personally would prefer a wildly awful protagonist with a lot of personality over a bland one, but that certainly does not appear to be the norm from market trends and book discussions on most forums.

Why do you think any of this is remotely a defense? Acknowledging the thing you're sticking up for as LCD-pandering swill that's tolerable at best and is used because it shifts units is not going to change the mind of anyone who hates it precisely for being that.

# ¿ May 29, 2018 20:27

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Seldom Posts posted:

you YA-haters

Seldom Posts posted:

you can't dimiss all YA.

I think you're tilting at a windmill.

Seldom Posts posted:

I generally don't like YA very much but I make an exception

Why do you have to "make an exception" when you already acknowledge that your distaste for the genre isn't comprehensive? And why do you assume that everyone else has made up their mind to categorically dismiss any book that was ever written for children?

"YA", as a commercially codified genre, is garbage by and large. That has nothing to do with whether or not a book written for young audiences can be good.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2018 16:11

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

When I was a kid, my cool half-sister almost got me The Chocolate War, but she went with Slaughterhouse-Five instead, and here I am.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2018 20:49

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jun 9, 2018

# ¿ Jun 5, 2018 04:08

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

I like The Robber Bride, although it's more of a fun melodrama than a Good Novel.

Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jun 10, 2018

# ¿ Jun 10, 2018 07:26

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Actually , they were inspired by the ending of Joyce Carol Oates's Bellefleur.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2018 18:16

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

A human heart posted:

The man who writes underage rape comic books is good actually

# ¿ Jul 2, 2018 02:45

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Clipperton posted:

sentient bowel

Very tempting name change.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2018 17:16

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

my bony fealty posted:

Oh do an 'urban fantasy' novel

I've never read any so no suggestions, what do goons like??

Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jul 7, 2018

# ¿ Jul 7, 2018 03:22

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Holy poo poo.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2018 20:42

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Shark Sandwich posted:

Edit: The series also has some of the worst cover art I've ever seen:

Get a load of the hardcover omnibus.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2018 19:42

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

# ¿ Jul 14, 2018 23:09

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

chernobyl kinsman posted:

they look straight out of a Steam sale is what they look

# ¿ Jul 15, 2018 02:30

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

porfiria posted:

He's saying you should judge works by their prose, not their content.

PetraCore claims to be a female on her profile page.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2018 00:17

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

That thing is every author bio on every vanity press's site.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2018 23:23

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Ccs posted:

You sure quoted his author bio there.

I think his work is great. What would you expect out of an author bio? "I suck, but please still read my work?"

A smidge less self-congratulation for being a real good writer, perhaps? Especially when he's only half a step removed from actually being on a vanity press.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2018 00:03

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

This guy rules.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2018 01:09

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

CestMoi posted:

pass

Trying to figure out how one imbibes vindaloo.

Ccs posted:

Cool, different tastes. Better to dislike an author's work based on his writing than his author bio.

He wrote his own bio, so the distinction doesn't even apply.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2018 03:04

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Christ, this guy is just a perpetual smug wink.

quote:

Billie Holiday on vacation, it is said, once happened to meet Billy Vacation, who was on holiday.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2018 03:07

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Are you ever not huffing your own farts?

# ¿ Jul 18, 2018 17:50

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Look I have a mutation that means I can only breathe methane and I would appreciate it if you didn't shame me for my disability you loving prick

Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 18, 2018

# ¿ Jul 18, 2018 23:23

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

The Vosgian Beast posted:

Also Auerbach is a fascist-adjacent creep and I don't give a poo poo how he feels about anything

Thanks, I hadn't quite picked up on it the first time.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2018 01:45

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

All I know about The Book of the New Sun is that I haven't gotten around to reading the copy I picked up used for $2 and that the guy who wouldn't shut up about it in YOSPOS has been permabanned.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2018 01:05

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Ccs posted:

Torture's a complicated subject in the narrative.

Someone wrote a whole paper about it: http://ultan.org.uk/torture-and-confession-in-wolfes-book-of-the-new-sun/

Ultan's Library: a web resource for the study of Gene Wolfe isn't a journal I'm familiar with. :raise:

# ¿ Jul 23, 2018 01:52

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

avshalemon posted:

frauds

There isn't anybody I'd rather read Critical Looks Sci-Fi and Fantasy from than you.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2018 09:00

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Abercrombie is a guilty pleasure of mine, so it won't be that severe if I ever get there. The trashing will be loving, dominatrix-like.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2018 22:02

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

# ¿ Jul 24, 2018 03:19

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Why does the Trotskyite sci fi man have a bazooka

# ¿ Jul 24, 2018 10:17

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 21:27

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Mel Mudkiper posted:

My basic premise is, if you want to be literature, you are going to be treated like literature and be deconstructed and analyzed for all your component elements and significance.

Uh, sci-fi and fantasy writers Deconstruct their genres all the time. :rolleyes:

# ¿ Jul 24, 2018 17:26

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Bonfire of the Genres: Critical Looks Sci-Fi and Fantasy

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