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so here's a fun article - someone (I suspect S.P.E.C.T.R.E.) seems to have found psionic attacks on US personnel in Cuba. I'm joking. But seriously what the hell? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-sonic-weapon-attacks-at-us-embassy-in-cuba-deepens quote:The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he’d walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room. quote:Suspicion initially focused on a sonic weapon, and on the Cubans. Yet the diagnosis of mild brain injury, considered unlikely to result from sound, has confounded the FBI, the state department and US intelligence agencies involved in the investigation. quote:The cases vary deeply: different symptoms, different recollections of what happened. quote:Sound and health experts are equally baffled. Targeted, localized beams of sound are possible, but the laws of acoustics suggest such a device would probably be large and not easily concealed. Officials said it’s unclear whether the device’s effects were localized by design or due to some other technical factor. *x-files theme tune* double nine fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 10:47
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blowfish posted:"We should never do cool things that do not lead to material benefits within my generation" yeah that has literally nothing to do with what i posted
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Sep 15, 2017 11:29
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I know NDT is now hated by the internet because he was mean to popular movies but this is a really good video about stuff we've talked about. He wraps it in a lot of airy language but the point is manned spaceflight is PR. Insofar as it can increase budgets it's not a bad reason but it's not a zero sum game. Sputnik, Hubble, the Mars rovers and New Horizons have all had a cultural impact and conversely nobody cared about people on the Moon after we planted a couple of flags there. I'm ok with manned flight and science stations to retain public interest, to an extent, but that's a separate issue from colonization which is just a black hole of moneypits the public should stay far away from. blowfish posted:"We should never do cool things that do not lead to material benefits within my generation" As far as NASA's budget is concerned it's better to focus on cool things that are beneficial. If private individuals want to invest in cool things that are useless then more power to them
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Sep 15, 2017 12:03
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botany posted:this is not an argument, this is just you writing a lot of words to say "because i think it's really cool". it also isn't really a science topic, because there is no current science to talk about. nobody, as far as i can tell, is developing habitats or seriously looking into planetary terraforming or whatever. it's science fiction, it just happens to be science fiction you think is really cool. I didn't say it was cool, I said it was a new frontier with new things to see and do and 55,742,106 new square miles of land to claim and build on and that novelty sparks innovation and that stagnation forms by fear of leaving comfortable activities. But what if I did say it was cool? and that was it? Humans do most things because they are cool. Humans gave 3 billion dollars to the movie avatar with nothing tangible in return and it wasn't even that cool. Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 12:16
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I didn't say it was cool, I said it was a new frontier with new things to see and do and 55,742,106 new square miles of land to claim and build on and that novelty sparks innovation and that stagnation forms by fear of leaving comfortable activities. the point is that we're very much not doing it. there are no current attempts at colonizing space. nobody (again, as far as i know) is building modular habitats, nobody is investigating how to terraform other planets. i would assume that the point of this thread is to talk about science that is actually happening right now, rather than science that might maybe happen at some point in the future. to make this perfectly clear: i have no problem researching all this stuff. i'm not saying we shouldn't do it. i'm just pointing out that we are very much not currently doing it, and it isn't in the pipeline for the foreseeable future. meaning there is basically nothing to talk about, other than "hey it would be cool if we did this thing eventually". we could of course speculate how it would work but since (i assume) nobody here is really qualified to talk about these things, at that point we would have completely abandoned any pretense of talking about science, and would instead basically be writing science fan-fiction. there's a lot of interesting science being done right now, which we could talk about. planetary colonization isn't part of it.
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Sep 15, 2017 12:41
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Bates posted:As far as NASA's budget is concerned it's better to focus on cool things that are beneficial. If private individuals want to invest in cool things that are useless then more power to them That seems backwards really. Companies should want to take up the research and development that has clear and direct financial returns or work as R&D towards some device. The government should subsidize the stuff with no direct return on investment. Like science might like to know the geology of uranus but doing so isn't really going to directly lead to any new invention or any immediate financial return so that makes it a perfect project for government subsidy. The worst thing to happen to NASA was the increased demand that every single thing they did returned some direct financial reward or spin off technology.
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Sep 15, 2017 12:43
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botany posted:the point is that we're very much not doing it. there are no current attempts at colonizing space. nobody (again, as far as i know) is building modular habitats, nobody is investigating how to terraform other planets. i would assume that the point of this thread is to talk about science that is actually happening right now, rather than science that might maybe happen at some point in the future. SpaceX seems extremely real. They are launching their first mars capable rocket in a month and a half with the stated goal of the company that it will be used for manned flights to mars. The first manned flight on that rocket is scheduled for next year (two people around the moon and back) It's not a exactly some random coincidence that the other companies he owns make giant batteries and solar panels, drive vehicles autonomously, are a company dedicated to having a big robot bore giant tunnels autonomously and a friggin design for train systems that can run in low pressure atmospheres. He seems about as serious about this as is possible. Like this stuff is all happening now, not in some deep hypothetical future. (mars one is also very publically working on mars colonies but mars one does seem extremely extremely fake, china also has announced plans for human trips to mars but are on the sort of long time table it's easy to dismiss) At the same time: if you do have news to discuss that would be good for the thread, it's cool to have abstract conversations about big topics during down time but I did want this to be the current events thread for science and technology.
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Sep 15, 2017 13:22
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I loving love science Reddit.com but only if it's cool space colonies and stuff get that boring poo poo outta here!! As a person studying science who might like to hear about science in the news or as it relates to policy this thread is pretty depressing. Mars colonization is a far off dream and it's worthwhile to work towards it but at our current level of technological development the best we'll get anytime soon is a research base where we send a bunch of insane volunteers to die in total loneliness and learn little more than we could learn with robots if anything Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 13:34
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Casey Finnigan posted:I loving love science Reddit.com but only if it's cool space colonies and stuff get that boring poo poo outta here!! Be the change you want to see, start posting news articles you find interesting.
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Sep 15, 2017 13:37
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double nine posted:so here's a fun article - someone (I suspect S.P.E.C.T.R.E.) seems to have found psionic attacks on US personnel in Cuba. I'm joking. But seriously what the hell? woah, what?
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Sep 15, 2017 13:38
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botany posted:this is not an argument, this is just you writing a lot of words to say "because i think it's really cool". it also isn't really a science topic, because there is no current science to talk about. nobody, as far as i can tell, is developing habitats or seriously looking into planetary terraforming or whatever. it's science fiction, it just happens to be science fiction you think is really cool. This is the exact stupid thinking that drives half the world companies into the ground "We need results now! How does this effect next quarters numbers? Everything must have an immediate return! Let's not take any risks!"
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Sep 15, 2017 13:57
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Xae posted:This is the exact stupid thinking that drives half the world companies into the ground You mean "let's not take any risks with our money!" Risking other people's lives, for instance, is considered extremely cool and good.
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Sep 15, 2017 14:01
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You can't know this won't yield great profits in fifty years, I say as I keep bashing my head with a brick.
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Sep 15, 2017 14:01
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steinrokkan posted:You can't know this won't yield great profits in fifty years, I say as I keep bashing my head with a brick. I'm seeing this as something that could well have an immediate benefit to the world.
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Sep 15, 2017 14:02
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Xae posted:This is the exact stupid thinking that drives half the world companies into the ground you can't read
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Sep 15, 2017 14:02
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:woah, what? It's been showing up on IFL for a bit now, but there's just not enough information publicly available yet for the story to really catch on. When we know who's doing it and why and take action against them, poo poo might get real.
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Sep 15, 2017 14:08
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double nine posted:so here's a fun article - someone (I suspect S.P.E.C.T.R.E.) seems to have found psionic attacks on US personnel in Cuba. I'm joking. But seriously what the hell? This is really spooky. I've read the first articles that came out about it a week or two ago.  I wonder if they've yet ruled out the possibility that it might be a case of mass hysteria? There have been a few cases like that in history, where a group of people seem to undergo mysterious symptoms just caused by people transmitting the idea from one another. EDIT: In regards to space colonies, I was throwing out some things to talk about. Like we could read some of the studies and surveys and things that actual scientists and engineers at NASA and other places have done, or Gerard O'Neill's High Frontier, and possibly discuss some of the merits and downsides of their ideas. A lot of very smart people have done a lot of research into this over the years. That'd give the thread at least something to ground it in. (heh) I can't say that I really favor the Mars colony idea, but with regards to that, a whole lot of thought has been put into how a Mars mission could be pulled off, ever since like the 60s and 70s. Wernher von Braun's design for Saturn V was actually meant to take us there, with the Moon being only a partway point. We could look at some of the concepts and discuss! Like for example, what do you think of Mars Direct? Here is a pretty cool documentary about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcTZvNLL0-w DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 14:15
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botany posted:you can't read Guys personal computers are just science fiction you think is cool. Xerox PARC executive 1973 Digital Cameras are just science fiction you guys think is cool. Kodak Executive 1975 Xae fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 14:16
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Xae posted:This is the exact stupid thinking that drives half the world companies into the ground No the point is that what we can do in the foreseeable future with regards to Mars "colonization" is not all that useful. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be researched (it should). But people gotta understand that putting people on a one way trip to a base in a hellish environment that humanity has no experience surviving in will not be worth all that much right now and the sci fi magic of space colonization is probably at least a century away if not more. Only thing we would gain from it is more info about how humans survive in that environment. Personally I think we could and should work on that aspect of things right here on earth. Let Musk build his rockets and such (not bad stuff to do with all that money) but people should not expect neuromancer in real life because of it. When you get a thread about science where people only wanna talk sci fi it's a little obnoxious Basically if you care about Mars colonization and space exploration you shouldn't poo poo on the people who are actually concerned about the practicality of it because the science they talk about isn't cool enough Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 14:18
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double nine posted:so here's a fun article - someone (I suspect S.P.E.C.T.R.E.) seems to have found psionic attacks on US personnel in Cuba. I'm joking. But seriously what the hell? Psionic != sonic.
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Sep 15, 2017 14:42
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:Psionic != sonic. No I'm pretty sure it was Russian psi-troopers.
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Sep 15, 2017 14:50
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Nevvy Z posted:It's been showing up on IFL for a bit now, but there's just not enough information publicly available yet for the story to really catch on. When we know who's doing it and why and take action against them, poo poo might get real. This was on the PBS Newshour last night, so it's starting to catch on. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/cuba-mystery-deepens-attacks-u-s-diplomats/
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Sep 15, 2017 14:58
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Xae posted:Guys personal computers are just science fiction you think is cool. do you have a point you're fruitlessly trying to make or is this a monkey and typewriters kind of situation, because i've explicitly said above that i think we should research new technologies
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Sep 15, 2017 15:03
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botany posted:do you have a point you're fruitlessly trying to make or is this a monkey and typewriters kind of situation, because i've explicitly said above that i think we should research new technologies Can you give the official list of what nonexistant technologies can be researched and which are just fruity scifi nerd crap?
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Sep 15, 2017 15:04
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blowfish posted:Psionic != sonic. The joke he's making is that it's apparently not a known sonic weapon and is somehow apparently causing brain damage and mental effects as if it was a psychic attack from alpha centauri or something instead of just an normal sound
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Sep 15, 2017 15:05
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Can you give the official list of what nonexistant technologies can be researched and which are just fruity scifi nerd crap? edit yeah no you know what, gently caress it, if you didn't bother to read it last time i'm just not gonna bother. have fun in your sci-fi thread
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Sep 15, 2017 15:09
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botany posted:edit yeah no you know what, gently caress it, if you didn't bother to read it last time i'm just not gonna bother. have fun in your sci-fi thread No, please, bless us with the list of non existent (fictional) technologies that are worth researching and which are not, because it would save the world a lot of time to know in advance what avenues of research might pay off and what might not. Is the metric that things that don't exist but would be boring are more likely or serious than current non existent technologies that someone might find interesting or exciting?
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Sep 15, 2017 15:24
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"Guys personal computers are just science fiction you think is cool. Xerox PARC executive 1973" This is why you are not allowed to laugh at my totally legit perpetual motion device.
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Sep 15, 2017 15:54
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I know that when the real scientists, the real brilliant drivers of innovation, get together, they talk about cool night vision robot implants and if anyone mentions that maybe they should focus their efforts to develop some simpler, more practical, transitional technologies they all get together and whip that person with extension cords. This is how Science Happens
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Sep 15, 2017 16:14
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WRT organ implants there was just a high profile scandal with scaffold and stem cell technique artificial trachea. A big celebrity doctor fired from a prestigious Stockholm university, departmental review, poor outcomes and dead patients.
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Sep 15, 2017 16:21
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steinrokkan posted:"Guys personal computers are just science fiction you think is cool. What perpetual motion machine?
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Sep 15, 2017 16:26
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Arglebargle III posted:WRT organ implants there was just a high profile scandal with scaffold and stem cell technique artificial trachea. A big celebrity doctor fired from a prestigious Stockholm university, departmental review, poor outcomes and dead patients. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37311038 Yeah, it's worth a read about that guy, it's really wild how fake his whole deal was. He basically just mashed some bone marrow into a plastic tube and called it stems cells, like it wasn't even close to any sort of clever fraud, it's amazing he tricked multiple hospitals, because it didn't even remotely work and wasn't even remotely near to any technique that could work and he had only done secret (nonexistent) animal studies in russia that no one was allowed to look at which he later admitted were mouse studies instead of large animal studies and also still never actually produced or showed anyone else. Like it's weird it fooled anyone at all, let alone actual medical professionals because it wasn't some abstract drug treating something abstractly, it was a thing you could immediately look at and say "you just mashed some garbage in there and now they died" “If I had the option of a synthetic trachea or a firing squad, I’d choose the last option because it would be the least painful form of execution.”
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Sep 15, 2017 16:45
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37311038 Lack of or substandard peer review is a major problem in science right now. People aren't willing to fund confirmation studies so a ton of bullshit is slipping through the process. The more expensive it gets to stay on the cutting edge the less funders are willing to pay for confirmation studies since they don't have a prestige factor attached to them. The problem isn't fixable unless the funders of science become significantly more scientifically literate.
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Sep 15, 2017 16:56
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double nine posted:so here's a fun article - someone (I suspect S.P.E.C.T.R.E.) seems to have found psionic attacks on US personnel in Cuba. I'm joking. But seriously what the hell? So have they already ruled out an infectious disease?
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Sep 15, 2017 17:04
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Gum posted:So have they already ruled out an infectious disease? I don't think many details of the investigation have really been made public at this point, but from what I've read (I think the Guardian article mentions this too) the victims all reported experiencing symptoms that were consistent with some kind of sonic attack. The fact that it always happens at night and in bursts of around a minute seems to point to something intentional or at least something environmental.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:07
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Xae posted:Lack of or substandard peer review is a major problem in science right now. People aren't willing to fund confirmation studies so a ton of bullshit is slipping through the process. I feel like that is the case with research papers but it's surprising it went on with a surgeon. Like he was operating without a licence at times, with no studies and fake credentials and like maybe worst of all his whole claim was dead tissue scaffolding would guide stem cells but he didn't even stick with his own dumb idea and most of the surgeries were just random bone marrow smeared onto plastic tubes. But somehow he still got asked to various hospitals and got nobel prize people recommending him to patients and stuff. Like his work was so outlandish and worked so extremely little its really shocking he got as far as he did. Usually medical fraud that gets this big is way more abstract, some drug treatment that has some percentile effect over the course of years or something that you can fudge some studies. This was just cutting people's neck open, putting a tube in then having them die a week later over and over. I guess it's because the first surgery he did he used the dead scaffolding and actual stem cells and the person did survive, even though later stuff shows it didn't really help. So everyone was primed to believe he was doing real stuff when he just decided to be a butcher. also at some point he claimed the pope came to his wedding. Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 17:07
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Paradoxish posted:I don't think many details of the investigation have really been made public at this point, but from what I've read (I think the Guardian article mentions this too) the victims all reported experiencing symptoms that were consistent with some kind of sonic attack. The fact that it always happens at night and in bursts of around a minute seems to point to something intentional or at least something environmental. Not necessarily. Symptoms only manifesting when someone is reclined and asleep may be connected to being reclined or asleep. Nothing i saw mentioned seems to be out of line with an infection but maybe there is something they aren't releasing
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Sep 15, 2017 17:14
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Xae posted:Guys personal computers are just science fiction you think is cool.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:17
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Gum posted:Not necessarily. Symptoms only manifesting when someone is reclined and asleep may be connected to being reclined or asleep. It's possible I'm misunderstanding some of what I've read, but my understanding is that the initial symptoms weren't limited to reclined positions or sleeping, but to specific areas. I know the one direct quote about it describes a diplomat that only heard the noise when he moved into and out of his bed, but the other (admittedly more vague) descriptions made it sound like a few of the people affected were noticing the sounds when standing in specific rooms, parts of rooms, etc.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:24
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Paradoxish posted:It's possible I'm misunderstanding some of what I've read, but my understanding is that the initial symptoms weren't limited to reclined positions or sleeping, but to specific areas. I know the one direct quote about it describes a diplomat that only heard the noise when he moved into and out of his bed, but the other (admittedly more vague) descriptions made it sound like a few of the people affected were noticing the sounds when standing in specific rooms, parts of rooms, etc. There are references people experiencing relief after leaving their immediate area but nothing to suggest that these people were initially awake. On the contrary it talks about how these 'attacks' happen at night in people's homes and their description of a typical incident involves someone waking up with a ringing in their ears.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:34
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