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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

CodfishCartographer posted:

games like Skyrim, adding all the little icons on your minimap / radar automatically kills a lot of the exploration. It turns “oh cool I wonder what this cave is?” into “oh, another cave to clear, whatever”.
I'd argue that Skyrim had the bigger problem of all its caves being effectively identical, so you only got the cool exploration feeling the first or second time you went into one. Every other time it was "oh, this again." Same went for all its other dungeon types.

Then again, all of the combat & dungeon-related stuff feeling super-samey was a problem with Skyrim in general. Maybe it's because I'm used to the more directed experience of JRPGs, but it left the game feeling less like an RPG and more like a town quest simulator(not a bad thing in itself) where you were occassionally sent to kill Interchangable Level-Scaled Enemy Set Q in Identical Cave 546 for Macguffin 8(definitely a bad thing).

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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

The problem is that your Market Research / User Experience / Focus Testing groups are awful at measuring either one of these things. Systems are something you don't really start engaging with meaningfully until you are several hours into the game, but can carry a game for literally thousands of hours if they are strong enough. The amount of content in a game is hard to determine by some person playing the game for between 30 and 120 minutes. So instead, these things measure First Impressions, and that's it. If the game direction is weak, they'll put all the eggs in that basket and focus hard on First Impressions Market Research and if you do this enough, you end up with Destiny 2: A game with less depth then the kiddie pool and not enough content to make up for it.
This makes me wonder if there's a feedback loop going on here.

People 'know' that most people only play the first parts of the game(assuming a game with a definite beginning and end, or at least a state where you've done basically everything there is to do), so that part is designed to be the strongest & less attention is given to later gameplay, which makes the game more boring as it goes on, which makes people quit playing before reaching the end, which reaffirms the common knowledge that relatively few players will reach the end of any given game.

I'd honestly be curious to see if there was a big difference in big studio games vs indie games when it comes to people reaching the end. Although you'd have to control for differences in expected game length, too.

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