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Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Ugly In The Morning posted:

So one of my friends has written music commercially for about 20 years, and is looking to go into video game music. He does some alt rock, heavy metal, and electronica. Also a jazz bassist by education. The whole thing is, he's been writing pieces of music that are made to be short and blend into any possible thing for ads for years (if you listen to Sirius XM, you've heard him). The question isn't talent or portfolio, it's who do you even get in touch with?

How about just putting some of his music on game asset stores?

I guess its kinda like, is he looking to contribute to a specific game project or just looking for side-work / income?

Posting audio on Unity store or Unreal store should be pretty straightforward, tons of people sell music clips and loops on there.

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Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Bean posted:

Okay, so. Out here in quarantine, I'd like to try making a game. I'm a baby programmer. Years ago, I used Game Maker. I'm mostly interested in 2D stuff like jrpgs and action games. I thought maybe I'd try unity, but it seems to be geared more towards 3D.

Should I look into Game Maker 2, Unity, or something else?

You can definitely 100% make 2D games in Unity, no worries there. I quite like it for 2D development.

Things like Game Maker or even RPG Maker would let you get further without having to learn more programming and get stuck up in the programming. Although that said, Unity being so popular means there's lots of tutorials and lots of marketplace content, so if you can find (ideally free) modules you can use existing work and not have to do as much code yourself.

That said, we just recently had a big discussion in the game development thread about how RPGs are kind of a pain in the rear end to build because there's so much menus and you have to be careful about your turn-based state machine and consistency of the design.

Its not really because RPGs are especially hard to make, but more because there's just so much content out there for FPS or 3rd person character platformers, you can basically create one of those games without ever writing a line of code. By comparison, an RPG... you need to know your programming.

So... if you don't wanna learn programming and want to make an RPG, see if RPG maker can get you to what you want IMO. Otherwise you're going to be spending time learning programming and not spending time working on your RPG.

A 2D Zelda-like game in Unity isn't too hard to throw together (I did it myself last year)
I haven't worked with Game Maker but I do think its pretty popular, but Unity is obviously mega popular too.

Check out these threads regularly:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2692947
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506853
you'll learn a lot just following the threads of conversation.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


ikanreed posted:

Is raytracing a sham like so many articles lately have been claiming?

Raytracing is used for movies because its better than Raster rendering. But Ray-tracing is more expensive to compute. To the point where its never been worth it in real-time applications.

Ray tracing is not new, it is a technique from like, the 80s. If anything, Ray-tracing is the more obvious solution, its the straightforward way of simulating reality. Raster is clever tricks and had to be developed over time.

Look at it like this:

You can have a PS4-level graphics with Raster, or you can have a PS2-level graphics with ray-tracing. Which one do you pick? For the same hardware, the costs of ray-tracing are so immense that you'd have to lower the rest of your rendering budget MASSIVELY to make up for the difference. (This is why some of the best ray-tracing demos right now are Quake 2 and Minecraft. Think about it.)

And for what? Better reflections? We've come up with really good raster solutions to almost all of the things where ray-tracing has a significant advantage.

Its not infeasible someone could make a game, Indie or AAA, which focuses on ray-tracing and is willing to make the graphics trade-off because the gameplay is specifically based on really good reflections everywhere, or something like that. You could use an artistic style to hide the lack of detail. But... nobody's done something like this so far.

So in general, ray-tracing is cool but too costly.

However!

The thing you're hearing about now is not a full ray-tracing solution. Its a hybrid raster rendering solution that uses ray-tracing for specific elements. How good it will look will depend entirely on the developer implementation and even which elements are ray-traced.

Battlefield for instance uses ray-tracing (if you have it) to make the reflections better. In most games, you get what are called "screen space reflections". That means the game can draw a reflection using any part of the scene you can see, since you're already rendering it. But what if a mirror needs to show something that isn't rendered, like behind you, or around a corner? It can't with raster screen-space reflections. Instead you get a blurry cubemap to make up for it. Most players never even notice these shortcomings, but if you sit and test the game's reflections, you'll notice these inconsistencies.

If you turn on ray-tracing reflections, all the windows and pools in Battlefield will now show accurate reflections; regardless of if they're on-screen or not. You can actually see a soldier around a corner using his reflection on a window! That's super neato. But... is that really all that important? That's kinda up to you.

Also note that turning on those ray-tracing reflections will cost you around 10-20 fps. The only video cards that can do ray-tracing are super powerful cards anyways... but still. If you have a 144hz monitor, you may only be getting 144fps already, so is it worth running at like 100-120 instead? Maybe? Maybe not? Its a personal choice. Some people still game at 60fps

Here's a demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQr0k2IA9A

But, not all games are ray-traced equally! Another game using RTX real time ray tracing is Metro, and they didn't do reflections but instead used rays to create Global Illumination. GI is a system for real-time lighting in videogames that attempts to capture how light bounces around a scene. In raster, its a hacky solution. Using ray-tracing you can do the actual physics of bouncing light and get much more accurate results.

Here's a demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7d-3Dprio

To me, that's actually HUGE. That's a pretty solid "holy grail". The ray-traced GI looks significantly better to me than trying to use artist-placed light sources to approximate the same. I could see a future where this becomes fairly standard to all games. But it'll require everybody to get beefy RTX cards.

Hopefully that answers everything

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


OneEightHundred posted:

They're bigger because AAA is a production quality arms race above all else, and they'll use every ounce of hardware capacity they can get. Games are bigger because storage/bandwidth are abundant.

This, plus we're seeing diminishing returns on graphical fidelity. Each 2x increase in texture size gives less and less results, but completely doubles your asset size.

File sizes on textures are increasing exponentially while quality is only increasing linearly. But as you say, as long as we have the hard drive space.... you're gonna use it. You want your product to look as good as it can, and hard drive size is a pretty minor cost.

dads friend steve posted:

I thought, at least for consoles, huge install sizes were driven a lot by needing multiple copies of assets to reduce seek time. So since the next gen is all super-fast SSD, we can expect some decrease in on-disk size (possibly to be immediately gobbled up by increased texture and poly sizes?)

This is definitely a thing, but will likely be made irrelevant by games continuing to scale up in size to match.

Never underestimate software bloat

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Chev posted:

Quadruples your asset size!

yeah!

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Coffee Jones posted:

Hey here's another thing for the server folks -
I like playing coop FPSs with friends so we pick up Halo Master Chief Collection on PC, a few months back we're working our way through Halo 1 and it was more or less a flawless experience network wise with only one or two disconnects.
A few months later Halo 3 launches and none of our co-op games seem to last more than a few minutes before receiving a server disconnected error. We try again during non peek periods, early Sunday morning, and we're able to get about thirty minutes in before receiving another disconnect.
Just for kicks, we try one of the player vs player modes and it's flawless.

So.... what's happening here? Is this a capacity issue?
Do they allocate a certain number of virtual machines for coop and a separate much larger cluster for PvP? If others want to start a Coop session are they bumping existing sessions instead of implementing a queue system "Server's full, your place is 3024 in queue ...."

I'm kinda old school and I like running dedicated servers on a Linode instance, if the connection drops out it's because the CPUs pegged or in the case of Minecraft, we've started swapping because Java's a drat memory hog and how much do you really expect for $5 / mo?

Okay, so, online multiplayer server talk! So there's two ways to skin the cat of online multiplayer, which you may be familiar with. There's dedicated servers, and there's peer-to-peer.

With the peer-to-peer (p2p from here on) approach, one of the players is picked as the "host" and they are both locally the server and also their own game client, and everyone else is a client who connects to that host. If the host drops, you'll notice the game pause for a second and pick another player to set up as the host, and then the game moves on from there.

Dedicated is what you're talking about, the more hardcore approach where there's a standalone server running just the game and everybody who is playing is a client connected to it.

Halo uses Dedicated for matchmade multiplayer, but uses p2p for campaign and custom game multiplayer. Dedicated servers are generally preferred, but are more expensive since the game company has to run and manage the servers instead of letting gamers just be their own servers. That said, p2p isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, it just means you may get more latency or hiccups here and there. But its not the worst problem for Halo.

There's a further fly in the ointment here. Halo: MCC is a remastered port of a bunch of old console Halo games. While they've re-written the multiplayer network stack to run really well on PC with the dedicated servers, the campaign system is basically still running what it did on Halo back in the day, just inside an emulator/container to patch those network communications to other PCs instead of xboxes on xbox live. That network code did certain things which were the optimal choices for consoles on xbox live, but which now don't work perfectly on PCs over the internet and Steam and whatnot. If they were writing Halo from scratch today they'd take slightly different designs to the network code, but it isn't a new game. They haven't really tried to update or change how the logic of the network stack in campaign works, and each game would have to be individually re-written so it'd be a huge effort to fix all of them completely.

As a result, they're unfortunately pretty hit and miss. Each halo campaign effectively has a slightly different network stack, so you're gonna see different results. I myself have had a bunch of Halo 3 co-op campaigns drop on PC, and that's pretty frustrating. It'd be great to see them address it, and I think they have taken some steps to fix bugs here and there, but as said the real problem is kinda just that its a port of a bunch of console games.

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 9, 2020

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Chev posted:

Yeah, in a peer to peer structure like the one used in fighting games or strategy games, lockstep, rollback, all those things, the idea is that everyone runs the same code which is why they're named, well, peers. The notion of an authoritative host doesn't exist. You can only check that every peer agrees on the game state within a certain tolerance (which, in the lockstep and rollback model, is zero tolerance thus the whole determinism rigmarole). If a peer drops the others just go on without any need for adjustment.

If you've got a host to migrate then you aren't peer to peer, you're client-server. The whole host vs server thing is really a matter of terminology but for our discussion here they're the same thing. People call them hosts nowadays because the Destiny presentation that popularized the host migration concept for a lot of devs called them hosts. And the concept is simple, really: you put the server/host on a player's machine so you have less server bills to pay. Somehow Bungie calls it "P2P client-host networking" in the same sentence they mention the host has full authority, due to the fact the host is hosted on the same machine as one of the clients, but it's a misnomer, you can't be both P2P and client-host, and there's no actual peer in that networking model, a client's gonna get promoted to host if the host drops.

Yes, there's a lot of overlapping language and jargon.

What do you call a non-dedicated-server to contrast it then if not p2p? I guess in the old days we called them "listen servers" but I haven't heard that terminology in like, a decade.

I've also heard of mesh networks and node-based systems for huge multiplayer MMO systems and the like referred to as "peer2peer" so obviously you have to consider the context, they're not exclusive terms.

more falafel please posted:

Maybe this is wrong, but I've always talked about both lockstep and client-server with one client serving as the server as under the "peer to peer" umbrella, as opposed to a dedicated server, which is a separate process, and probably running on a separate machine, probably one you can't physically touch.

Yeah same. But at the end of the day the jargon isn't what really matters.

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Nov 10, 2020

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Chev posted:

although it's gonna confuse the people for whom a listen server is just a server that doesn't initiate connections, ie almost all game/web servers

Haha, good point. There's just not enough specific terms here.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Old MUDs were just played over telnet so by technical requirement they used real ASCII.

But modern games can do different things.

There's an ASCII shader for Quake 😁

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


IAmKale posted:

I have a very naive question about how video games handle save games, due in large part to the recent revelation that Cyberpunk 2077 save games have a filesize limit of 8MB, at which point they break and can no longer be loaded:

Do game studios hand-roll save game file formats? Is there something preventing the wide adoption of local database solutions like SQLite for storing save games?

It boggles my mind, as a web application engineer with zero game dev experience, that a AAA game like CP2077 can suffer issues with writing game state to disk when storage space is plentiful and processors are ever faster. I bring up SQLite as an alternative specifically because it's a database engine that's been battle tested, is highly performant, can read data from/write data to a single .sqlite file on the filesystem, and easily supports databases measured in the hundreds of gigabytes. Especially for single-player games, what would motivate a game studio to seemingly hand-roll their game save data structure in a way that inadvertently places a hard maximum on how big that file can become?

And if it's a matter of obfuscating game saves to discourage tampering, why bother if it's a single player game? What would it matter if a player could query a save file and manipulate it, with the assumption that if it breaks the game then they shouldn't have bothered messing around with it.

Thank you for humoring me. As I said I have zero programming experience in your world and I'm sure there's an aspect to save game formats that I'm completely oblivious to. I think it's a rather fascinating subject, though, and I'd love to hear your take on my terrible suggestion.

The thing about CP2077 is that its designed to work on 7 platforms, including PS4 and Xbox. They're not going to invest time in anything special for file formats for PC that they can't easily extend to those other primary platforms as well.

SQL is more about access anyways, If they wanted to make things standard they could easily just use like XML or JSON (and some game companies do) but a lot of times they want to restrict such easy cheating so they intentionally obfuscate the file format. Having it be a proprietary binary file helps there a little. (Doesn't stop dedicated people, but stops the majority) As for why bother, that's a design choice. Generally you want to protect players from cheating so they experience the game more proper. People don't know what's best for them, and while I love cheating in games that I've beaten I wait until I beat them for that very reason, it can spoil lots of things.

There's not enough data to warrant a SQL while running, all the save state can be held in RAM. Running SQL might help something like Skyrim though where the files can get truly insanely huge because of the sheer scope of saved variables.

Also generally look at how much they were cramming to finish Cyberpunk and how it got delayed even at the last minute. With videogames any given feature you can come up with, odds are someone on the dev team was thinking the same thing too and was begging his team lead for a few weeks to implement it, but it was a no-go, because fixing the broken cars or the fact that your character would occasionally invert themselves was higher priority for shipping. So someone may have even thought about implementing a better save format, but testing showed that it wasn't really necessary and they ended up working on other things. And then the game releases and people spam crafting using macros and everything explodes... that's the game industry!

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Dec 21, 2020

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Irukandji Syndrome posted:

Part of the problem I have when looking into all these "so you want to be a game dev eh?" videos is it shows people who are incredibly talented. While I'm working my hardest to get to that point, I sometimes kind of feel like I'll never be "good enough" to "make it" especially surrounded by talented peers.

Are there any positions that hire new-to-industry artists with older ones as mentors without expecting you to be perfect at your job, or any kind of mentorship you can get without being in art school, that kind of thing? Does anyone have stories of people just sucking in game dev but somehow ekeing out a living anyway?

Most game industry jobs are looking for people with shipped titles so they can get a sure thing and not have to risk training someone. But there are entry-level jobs out there (course there's lots of competition for them too). Getting your "foot in the door" is generally one of the hardest things.

I'm not an artist though so I can't speak to that experience, but it seems to me like the artist plan is to just do as much art as you can in your free time, build up a portfolio, and then use that as your resume to get in and get started. If you've got a big portfolio of impressive looking work, that counts as your experience.

You could try things like selling marketplace assets or selling people avatars and other commission art, although I think its the same problem as games in general where a few people get a lot of attention and a lot of money, and basically everybody else struggles to get any eyeballs on their work. Seems like you'd basically be making pennies for a long time until you hit a critical popularity point and then started making real money because you're popular. Which kinda sucks, but c'est la vie.

punk rebel ecks posted:

The constant moving around really puts me off.

I'd assume it would be difficult getting a job as programming jobs are declining. Which is what I assume is the most common entry level or a stepping stone job for game/software developers.

Are they really declining? I think its more just that they're expanding massively, so the median is going down. I guess I'm biased because I'm a developer so everybody I know is a dev making good money doing it. (outside of games, that is, where you work hard for less pay)

That said, "everybody become a developer its a great job!" is sort of a self-fulfilling doom prophecy. I do fear we're pushing programming on everybody right now and its not really sustainable for the entire country to do it.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


a primate posted:

Iím not expecting anyone to believe me because this is some high level spergin (I work in sound) but it got me thinking about how people in the gaming industry might reuse assets from project to project. Does this happen any appreciable amount?

Not only does it happen but I think as we move towards higher levels of photorealism it'll become more common.

Like a movie studio that collects sets and props from old films to potentially re-use in future films.

In the past how fast rendering technology has improved has somewhat capped how long an asset can remain viable.

And on the indie side of things, there's asset marketplaces where people sell art to others, which invariably end up in multiple projects. But Team Bondi unlikely to be using that.

Gearman posted:

Happens all the time, just like 3D assets. There are even some fairly popular sound packs that are used across the industry.

Oh yeah sound reuse is everywhere, you can hear the same exact pig noise or dragon scream in at least a dozen games. Just like the Wilhelm Scream in movies.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


OneEightHundred posted:

It's also just a bad calibration method. High-contrast edges on a dark background are visible at very low brightness levels, so you want users to calibrate the brightness so that gray level is "barely visible" and everything below it is crushed to black? Why?

Show the game world when you're adjusting brightness/contrast, anything else is a mistake.

They usually have two, you calibrate for dark and then for light, so you get the limits. Then it uses that as a range. Its not so crazy.

But the examples are usually not very sensible to how the game really looks, agreed.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Hughlander posted:

I'm an engineering hiring manager on a 9 figure franchise. Post the resume anonymized or PM it to me if you want comments.

I'm not giogadi but if you don't mind I'd definitely appreciate you taking a look at my resume. PMing you.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


DreadCthulhu posted:

Is there a community where indie game devs get together and talk about what they're working on, look for staff, exchange experiences and help each other one? Maybe a very active subreddit? A Discord? A Slack? A conference where everybody meets on a regular basis? I've never gone deep in the "community", so I'm curious if you all knew of such places.

It takes awhile to build up a network but honestly twitter has a lot of super active indie devs posting what they're working on or that they're looking for work.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Firgof posted:

I'm seeing folks with multiple years of experience working for basically peanuts (and no peanuts for two weeks despite 40 hours of unpaid investment during those) on what should be such an entry level position that it should probably only be applying to folks fresh from highschool.

"passion industry"

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


I think a number of devs DO just leave, and they just have fairly high turnover, but there's always new people happy to take their place. And if they're younger, possibly for less money, so some companies are fine with that for SOP. Of course that's gonna vary from location to location though.

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Furthermore, my skillset is C# and C++. You can find jobs in this domain outside of games, but the jobs are frequently uninspiring despite offering easily double or more the salary. Web is a super common domain, but I'd rather jam forks in my eyes than ever get caught writing another line of Javascript in whatever the FotM framework is in my life. I'd consider backend work, but I get / have to do everything for my current job and I like to have control over all of it - data, logic and UI/UX.

I've seriously considered leaving the industry because the salary is just... The offers I've gotten from other companies just hurts, but when I look into my heart of hearts, just working around people I really enjoy on products I really care about has a lot of value for me. I guess that's why industry pay is bad .

If you know C# you know Java and there's so many easy Java jobs. But then that's the problem, I make so much more money doing boring coding that applying to game companies feels like a sucker punch. I'm looking at taking like literally half my old salary if I want to switch back industries. I guess I'm still young and dumb enough I'm gonna try it but its something that constantly weighs on you, you know you're worth more.

100% with you on not wanting anything to do with the javascript lifestyle.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


OneEightHundred posted:

The big thing everyone needs to internalize before they even start trying to make a game that they actually expect to make money on is that making a good game is not good enough any more, you either need to be able to promote the poo poo out of it, or it has to be so awesome that it just blows everything else out of the water (and then you still have to promote the poo poo out of it).

Now please stop me before I go on a rant about devs who think the problem with Steam is that it needs better recommendation algorithms.

Yeah, agree 100%. I'm not a very business-minded person but the more I read smart gamasutra articles about video game business the more this seems like the writing on the wall.

It sucks, and it seems really dumb that even huge AAA games are spending as much or more money on marketing than on the entire cost of development of a title; just think of what they could do if you straight up doubled their budget!

What keeps me up at night is the idea that a studio's success can come down to whether a famous streamer plays their game or not. And then you see why big streamers make so much money and get all the attention.

If you really want to get wild, you can consider whether its actually sustainable for everybody who wants to make games to make games. There's just more and more competition and still there's no doubt lots of people who would want to work in the game industry who don't. The more people making games, the smaller slice of the pie each game gets.

Course I guess the answer there is really to move to a universal basic income, make all games free, and replace all labor with robots. Well, a man can dream.

al-azad posted:

For me this ties into point #1 and is exactly why I chose the dead easiest and least creatively fulfilling career path. I used to work in a top secret lab environment that was very demanding and kept me active for days and weekends but then I sold out to a higher paying, less demanding field where I can say "no, I work 40 hours a week, clearance doesn't stop me from VPN'ing when I want, and military readiness isn't an excuse to drag me out of bed on a Sunday." The work is dull but it's stable, predictable, and I have time to release my creative energy at home.

All of this is to say that I wanted to release my own creatively lead games and not just work on other people's games -- and I have zero connections or access to multi-million dollar resources like Supergiant/Iron Gate/Unknown Worlds had right out the gate -- I would absolutely take the easy sell out job and funnel all my resources into my side gig. If I become the next Phasmophobia then fantastic, time to quit and ride the gravy train. If not oh well, I never let my hobby become work and destroy me.

Yeah this can be a solid solution, and I've been living this lifestyle for a couple years. But the only problem there is when you're working 40 hours weeks on code you don't care about, you may be excited to work on your game project as soon as you get home, but by the time you actually do get home you're so exhausted you can't stare at an IDE any longer and need to do something else.

Or alternatively you only work on your hobby project one day a week and progress is pretty glacial.

Which is why I wish I could get more free time off instead of getting more pay when I get a raise, more time off to work on your own passion project would be great. But generally I think businesses look down on that, they'd rather pay you more money but keep you working full time.

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Mar 3, 2021

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


MJBuddy posted:

You have to conceptually separate the candy crushes from the Red Deads of the world. If you're doing a good structured marketing plan, you're comparing your cost per acquisition vs your LTV in mobile space. In box retail it's a bit different.

Candy crush advertised a lot because their game was engaging and had a huge ARPU, so you just turn on the money for CPA and make huge profit.

The big shift in mobile is that CPA jumped massively over the last half a decade so you can't just make a decent game that monetizes okay and advertise and make an easy profit. Your LTV has to be pretty high.

Yeah but isn't Rockstar literally on the record for spending as much or more on marketing than they did on development? Maybe for other AAAs but at least that case in particular...

But R* also has the capital for doing things like that. I think you could extend what you were saying to say that both the red deads and candy crushes of the world are outliers compared to most games.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


more falafel please posted:

AAA has also gotten much more expensive to produce in the last 20 years -- $100m dev budget is normal for big franchises. Publishers are just starting to test the waters about charging $70 instead of the $60 they've been charging since the 90s. (This has gotten a little better with GaaS, digital distribution, DLC, MTX, etc). In 2001, if you sell a million copies, you're a big success. A million copies of a AAA game gets a studio closed now. Marketing has to be a big budget, because you need to sell way more copies than you used to to break even.

I don't know if I buy that, the market is also vastly bigger than it used to be, and AAAs used to market back in the day too. I would say competition is a bigger issue than needing to sell a million copies to be a "success". That's entirely relative to the budget and expected return on the game as well.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


mutata posted:

It's objectively true that game budgets are higher now than they have ever been. Revenue is also at record highs though, but only really for the top companies.

I wasn't arguing that point at all, merely saying that not all of this applies to all games. Budgets aren't a monolith and even if they have increased in size, not all games have that same scale. Just pointing out there are exceptions, just like how there are exceptions on the upper end too. Like how we were just discussing that red dead and mobile games aren't necessarily indicative of the whole industry either. Yeah?

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


MJBuddy posted:

The dev teams were smaller in 2001 though. Half life 2 was made by fewer than 100 people. Doom 3 less than that. Red dead 2 took over 1600 people.

Yeah but again red dead is a pretty wild extreme case. How many people made something like Doom Eternal? (probably fair to say more than 100 though)

Tried googling to find out and while I didn't, I did find an article that says Id was "crunching pretty hard" while working on it. this industry, I tell you.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


I just had a really successful first phone interview with a game studio

The role seems like a perfect fit for me, its a backend sever engineering role for a multiplayer game, so my background of being mostly in general software and not shipping games isn't so bad.

The only thing that worries me a little bit is the salary range we loosely discussed was honestly significantly higher than I expected, considering the game industry. I'm not sure if its because they're in California (and the cost of living there) or because they're expecting me to be something I'm not, but that's probably imposter syndrome talking. Looking over the job posting I match all the requirements to a T.

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Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


giogadi posted:

Woooooooo, congrats! I've also had a couple of solid interviews this week with some game companies in Austin. I was also pleasantly surprised by the salary ranges they provided. I just need to not gently caress up the next round of interviews. I'm such a huge nervous wreck while waiting for the interviews to begin, but once they start I tend to kinda enjoy them. But it's hard to remember that when I'm literally sweating from nerves for the 2-3 hours before an interview starts. This has to be bad for my health.

Literally same. Its surprising how sweaty I get on the day of an interview, I usually don't sweat much but its like non-stop until the interview gets going.

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