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TheFace
Oct 4, 2004

Fuck anyone that doesn't wanna be this beautiful


SupSuper posted:

I'm not sure what's the right term for this, but why does the games industry seem to be so... fanatic?

For example, I'm a software dev, I work on all kinds of products without really having any investment with them. I'm invested in my job and that's what I like. I doubt all the consumers and reviewers of various products have any deep attachments to them as well.
But in games everyone seems to be required to "drink the koolaid". To work in games you have to love games, to write about games you have to breathe games. Everyone is a gamer, whether they're developer, press, or customer, and that seems to encourage all kinds of bias and inner circles and what not.

Is it all just an act for marketing, a natural result of working on creative media, or something else?

I'm not sure if non-Game Dev's are allowed to answer, but I think you nailed it with your "a natural result of working on creative media". People who work in music typically LOVE music, People who work in movies typically LOVE movies, I'd imagine the same goes for games.

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TheFace
Oct 4, 2004

Fuck anyone that doesn't wanna be this beautiful


I won't be surprised if this gets ignored as people seem to have a really hard time talking about money, maybe for fear that they'll realize they're under paid, or maybe because jealousy... No clue.

I know this varies depending on location, but what's the typical pay like for the assorted roles in game dev?

TheFace
Oct 4, 2004

Fuck anyone that doesn't wanna be this beautiful


floofyscorp posted:

So this varies hugely by location as you've said, but here are some relatively recent numbers from the only large-scale games industry salary survey that I know of - that said, they still only got fewer than 400 respondents from around the world so take this with several grains of salt.

This seems really really low to me? Must be what you guys are talking about, where there's a fresh new batch of grads just waiting to take your place for cheap?

I guess the love of making games outweighs that (as a dev/programmer) you could likely be making more money elsewhere?

TheFace
Oct 4, 2004

Fuck anyone that doesn't wanna be this beautiful


Mother posted:

Sorry -- hard to gauge the level of understanding.

"Ideas guy" is also enshrined at our shop so it made me laugh. We had a young QA new hire (now a producer at well known shop) who begged for a chance to be on the design team and we allowed him to try out.

Ok, here's the editor, make some levels.

Days pass...

How's the level coming?

Oh, I didn't make one. I don't think I want to be that kind of designer.

Ok, here's the database and the combat doc, go look at some scripting and balance work, head down to playtest. ...days... I don't think I want to be that kind of designer.

Ok, here's the story doc, go look at the character pages and VO, talk to the writer, take a hack at some lines. ...days... I don't think I want to be that kind of designer.

Ok, well, we're kind of out of "kinds of designer." What kind of designer do you want to be?

You know, I want to be the ideas guy.

Maybe I'm weird, and I definitely don't know the actual work involved, but all three of the opportunities he got to try sound fun! I now want to punch this kid.

TheFace
Oct 4, 2004

Fuck anyone that doesn't wanna be this beautiful


Mother posted:

Not going to wade into discussion of loot boxes, loot box morality and the like, but from a straight-up analysis standpoint:

In 1986, I bought one of my all-time favorite games, Starflight. It was made by a team of five. They worked for three years, which was unheard of at the time and caused the game to be perpetually on the verge of being cancelled. The price on the box was $54.99.

In 2017, I bought Destiny 2. It was made by Bungie, who is about 800 people. Also contracted for the game were: High Moon Studios, Vicarious Visions, FXVille, Blindlight, Axis Animation, Blur, and Digic Pictures. That game also took about three years to make. The price on the eBox was $60.

Assuming fuel for my time machine is free, Starflight would cost me $125 today and Destiny 2 would have set me back $27 (only six mows of the neighbor’s yard) in ‘86.

See where this is going? Starflight was almost certainly less than a million to make (adjusted). Take a wild stab at what Destiny 2 cost. Yet, the sticker price….

If you’re not a fan of loot boxes and F2P and so forth, but are a fan of AAA games, I think you’re going to be sad in the future. The only way this hobby of ours continues, at the AAA level, is if the price of making a game drops by an order of magnitude (which is why so many people are working on PUBGs and Rocket Leagues) or AAA can reliably get more than $60 from a player.

You're not factoring in the customer base being much larger now than in 86. Video games were a fringe thing, especially at home back then. Sure they were starting to pick up traction with things like the NES, SEGA master system, however Starflight sold 100,000 copies in it's first year (according to Wikipedia), eventually (over likely years) it sold over a million. Destiny 2 sold 50k in the first week...

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