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 It’s in every great fighter’s nature to push their limits, to take greater and greater challenges, to prove themselves against the best. Every man or woman who steps into a ring does so dreaming that they will one day be champion, that they just may be the best fighter in the world, or even the best that ever lived, and so they make their argument one fight at a time, one defeated opponent after another, until no one is left to dispute their claim. Yet the paradox of greatness is such that a fighter is only as great as his defeated opponents could have been, had they not lost to him. As dominant as Mike Tyson was, true greatness eluded him because his greatest wins weren’t his toughest foes. Muhammad Ali on the other hand will always be remembered and cherished for competitive, career-defining rivalries with other fighters considered good or great for their era. In this way each professional boxer with elite aspirations is also a hunter; their glory goes only as far as the strength of the enemies they overcome, and their trophies are only as valuable as the hunt to secure them was worthy. To become a legend they must find victims worthy of a legend; to become a hero they must slay monsters. Floyd Mayweather had remarkable timing when choosing his prey, and his legacy will probably benefit from fuzzy memories forgetting which version Shane Mosley he fought, or which Cotto, or which Pacquiao, but he will also forever be dogged by accusations of avoiding the best when they were the best. Roberto Duran’s boxing record is nowhere as clean as Floyd’s, but he will be remembered far more fondly by fans for his willingness to take on anyone, anywhere, for the sake of a fight. When Duran exhausted his boxing territory of challenges he moved onto another, always pursuing bigger game, and (almost) always giving everything he had in the pursuit. What happens when two skilled hunters of men, two aspiring greats in the prime of their careers, have exhausted all worthy prey in their respective territories? What happens when two dangerous predators meet at the top of a summit, each chafing at the obstructed view? What happens when a sheriff and outlaw mutually decide this town just ain’t big enough? A duel to the death happens. Lethal force on both sides. Merciless intentions. Mutual aggression. In such a clash supremacy can assert itself in an instant and at any moment, beyond any point of reaction, a lucky shot to the head rendering a victory shocking for its abruptness. Every moment becomes a hunt for advantage, for proof of superiority in competition, to disprove notions of equality between two rivals, to establish clear roles of predator and prey. When that proof is long in coming, when two hunters pursue each other into bloody exhaustion, perhaps at that moment they may encounter a reflection of themselves in their unconquered enemy, and in this symmetry find greatness. Tonight’s fight between Saul “Canelo” Alvarez and Gennady “GGG” Golovkin is a duel to the death, fangs bared and claws out, pistols cocked and ready to fire, and with dynamite rigged to blow for good measure.  Saturday, September 16th HBO PPV - live show begins 8pm eastern / 5pm pacific, main event probably close to 10pm/7pm Saul "Canelo" Alvarez vs Gennady "GGG" Golovkin - middleweight (160 lb) world championship, unification fight Joseph Diaz Jr. vs Rafael Rivera - featherweight (126 lb) Diego De La Hoya vs Randy Caballero - super bantamweight (122 lb) Ryan Martin vs Francisco Rojo - lightweight (135 lb) What if Mayweather-Pacquaio actually had happened in 2010, the first time the two attempted negotiations, instead of five years later? We may have had a match as good as this fight: a showdown between two top boxing stars at the height of their stardom and in top athletic form, with multiple world titles between them and strong individual arguments for pound-for-pound consideration. That matchup was made intriguing by the sheer differences of the fighters’ styles; tonight’s main event is made intriguing by similarities. But beyond that, this match is more than a fight, it’s a war. This is Marvin Hagler vs Tommy Hearns. More than the middleweight championship is at stake; the winner of this fight is the biggest name in boxing south of heavyweight, and the loser’s punishment depends on the severity of the loss. Two men are fighting for greatness; neither wants an even split.  On one side of the contest stands Saul “Canelo” Alvarez (49-1-1, 34 KO), only 27 years old and already the second-biggest pay-per-view draw in boxing after Mayweather, still the only fighter to have beaten him.The popular Mexican fighter’s distinct look and special fighting talent all but guaranteed his career would be a bright one, and indeed most of his professional fights have been televised, either on Mexican television or eventually on Showtime and HBO. Canelo at times has been billed as the next great Mexican fighter or the next Manny Pacquiao, depending on who you ask, and if he probably isn’t that good, he’s largely lived up to the hype otherwise, clearing out the super welterweight (154 lb) division of most relevant contenders and assembling a gallery of conquered boxing stars, picking up the middleweight (160 lb) championship in the process. What Alvarez still lacks is a defining win. Tough fights in his earlier career with Austin Trout and Erislandy Lara were only just barely victories, ones that people still dispute to this day, and whether or not Alvarez “wins” them depends on whether you favor aggression for its own sake or prefer more efficient and accurate boxing styles. Floyd Mayweather outboxed and dominated Alvarez in a massive pay-per-view event that can only be called a schooling. Even if it stands as Canelo’s sole loss, to someone that retired undefeated, it’s still a shutout loss. Alvarez’ best win may be Miguel Cotto, but it’s a decision win over a fighter far past his prime, for a world championship won from another fighter far past his prime. Recent showdowns with Amir Khan and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. may have been good for Canelo’s bank account, but they were obvious mismatches upon the moment of their announcement. Fans viewed them as blatant cash grabs, while Canelo avoided the real monster at middleweight.  At one point Gennady “GGG” Golovkin (37-0, 33 KO) was the most avoided fighter in boxing. He was certainly the most feared, and may still be. The Kazakh fighter earned a ferocious reputation as early as his amateur career, where he amassed a record of 345-5 before finally turning pro, but it would take several years of promotional issues before Triple G finally gained worldwide exposure. Rumors had come ahead of Golovkin’s HBO debut, stories about how he was middleweight Mike Tyson, and he quickly delivered upon them with knockout after knockout of top ten competition at middleweight. Golovkin combined brutal power with a stalking demeanor and an ever-present scowl, the look of someone determined to do harm and looking forward to it. Boxers who blustered on about how unintimidated they were before fighting Golovkin inevitably found themselves running away from him in pure survival mode, and only for a limited time. That Golovkin is a good fighter is by now unquestioned; a 23-fight knockout streak only recently ended by Danny Jacobs, the first person to take him all twelve rounds, stands as testament to his immense power and effective aggression in the ring. What remains in question is just how good he really is, and it’s a question that needs answering sooner than later. Triple G is already 35 years old with a fighting style that tends to age poorly and an ever-shrinking window to make big fights he can be competitive in. Having spent years unsuccessfully chasing big matches first with Sergio Martinez, then Miguel Cotto, Golovkin had to settle for a steady diet of the “best of the rest” in the middleweight division as he waited for a big fight opportunity to materialize, and eventually, as he waited for Saul Alvarez to make his proper jump into middleweight for a real career-defining challenge.  That time has finally come, and perhaps at the ideal moment. Saul Alvarez has evolved from the green unseasoned kid he looked against Mayweather, developing a more aggressive inside game to complement his mid-range countering style. Fights with Amir Khan and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. may not have been competitive, but each fighter challenged Alvarez with exceptional speed and exceptional size, respectively. This Canelo can fight forwards and backwards, and if he’s still flat-footed at times, it’s only to get leverage on his shots. The big Mexican fighter was almost certainly going to the middleweight division eventually, but by taking his time to grow into the weight via steadily increasing catchweight fights he can now come into the division with no excuses.  Golovkin meanwhile is as young and as fresh as he will ever be, at the height of his popularity. There will never be a better time for him to have a fight like this, and in fact the worry among fans is that it may already be too late for Golovkin to deliver a peak performance against a prime rival. Some fans claim to already see signs of slowing in Golovkin, and the general sentiment is that Canelo waited until he would age past the point of good competition. At the moment, Triple G is a boxing star who made his name the hard way: by knocking out tough opponents over, and over, and over again, becoming a self-made PPV attraction in the process, and finally earning his way into a big money fight.  The Main Event: How will this fight go? Frankly it is very hard to tell. On paper both Alvarez and Golovkin have similar styles that just vary in execution; both are traditional boxer-punchers who exploit their opponents’ openings from mid-range, albeit in different ways. Alvarez likes to counterpunch and batter his opponents with his length and power, whereas Golovkin prefers to stalk and corner his prey, but each fighter is capable of both methods and will choose their approach to fit what their opponents give them. Generally both Canelo and GGG prefer to stay at middle distance where they have enough space and range to set up their big power shots, of which each man has several to choose from. Positioning will be hard fought as both fighters would prefer to be in the center of the ring. Canelo has more experience playing the matador in recent fights than Golovkin does, but he’s no great mover and in any case is not usually inclined to take backwards steps himself. In a true inside fight Canelo may have an advantage, but if so it is slight. Golovkin’s best exchanges tend to have some space on them and it’s possible Canelo could smother his work, although that game plan hasn’t panned out for anyone else that tried it against the Kazakh KO artist.  The first key point of contention in this fight will be the jab. At mid range, the jab serves a number of functions, such as establishing range, setting up power punches, checking an aggressive fighter, disrupting a foe’s rhythm, and so on. The fighter that can establish his jab as an effective leading punch will have a huge advantage at midrange and can use the jab to set up their real power punches. Gennady Golovkin showed the great effect of his jab against David Lemieux, bludgeoning him with it at range and then attacking behind it. Canelo’s jab isn’t as powerful or as accurate, but it’s still very effective and has been getting better with every fight. Still, Alvarez will need to find a home for his jab if he intends to be successful fighting at mid-range or on the outside. Of course, Alvarez may just choose to stand his ground and slug it out with Golovkin, inviting the sort of fireworks we’re all hoping we get at least a little of. Triple G enjoys exchanges and in his big fights even appears to invite them at times, knowing his power advantage will give him the edge in any trade. A big hitter himself, Canelo may likely feel the same way, or may even feel his best opportunity to hit Golovkin is to get him to open up a little. In this way two elite boxers could end up in trench warfare, Castillo-Corrales style. Exchanges are bound to happen; how long they last is determined by how much each man respects the punching power of the other.  The biggest factor in this fight is also probably the biggest question behind the fight: power. Which of Gennady Golovkin and Canelo Alvarez is the more powerful puncher? Both are incredibly skilled, both have plenty of knockouts. Golovkin’s power is fight-altering, accumulating damage; Canelo’s power is fight-ending, a hammer striking at the perfect time. But who really hits harder? Who can take the harder shots? Can both fighters hurt each other? Which fighter will hurt the other first? These are questions that can only be answered during the fight, but by consensus most think Golovkin is the more powerful fighter overall. Canelo may be well served to get in good body work against GGG early in hopes of sapping some of the sting from his punches.  My Prediction: This fight is going to start fairly tactically, with both guys jabbing at each other in the center of the ring and testing each other out for defensive weaknesses. Golovkin will probably be the aggressor if a relatively cautious one while Canelo looks to catch Golovkin with something on his way in. Eventually one fighter will try to surprise the other with an aggressive combination, the other will feel compelled to fire back, and from there anything may happen. This could be a very mobile fight, but I suspect that a high-intensity, grueling close up fight will develop, and that neither Canelo nor Golovkin will have trouble finding the other. Regardless, I have a feeling we will see tons of combinations exchanged between the two, and probably several shifts in momentum as each man adjusts to the power of the other. If at any point one fighter hurts the other, I fully expect his opponent to come back with even more intensity. Whether that can be sustained for 12 rounds is a big question mark, and I have a feeling Golovkin’s power may be enough to decide the fight early, but if Canelo can bang with Golovkin then any outcome is possible. I think Golovkin will win by late stoppage (8-10), but really I just hope this goes 12 rounds and is the boxing classic it looks like it could be. The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 13:29
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SO HYPE FOR PUNCHMANS TONIGHT GGG inside of 10.
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Sep 16, 2017 13:39
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fingers crossed for quick knockouts on the undercard so we can get this on before anything goes wrong
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Sep 16, 2017 13:52
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I have Golovkin in 6 or 7 but really any result is possible which is why I'm so hype.
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Sep 16, 2017 14:13
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Golovkin's currently the betting favorite over at Bovada. GGG to win at -165 Canelo to win at +135 Golovkin by decision at +275 Golovkin by KO at +160 Alvarez by decision at +210 Alvarez by KO at +500 Will the fight go the distance? Yes at -130 No at -110 Will Saul Alvarez be knocked down? Yes at -120 No at -120 Will Gennady Golovkin be knocked down? Yes at +300 No at -500 Will either fighter be knocked down? Yes at -200 No at +140
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Sep 16, 2017 14:14
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I like Canelo's head movement and counter punching, but I don't know if I want to see him try it here. Regardless, I'm very excited to see the fight.
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Sep 16, 2017 14:22
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The Ninth Layer posted:Golovkin's currently the betting favorite over at Bovada. i really want to bet on this fight and i am comfortable picking GGG as the winner but i have zero clue what to do about the prop bets. everything just seems up in the air. i could see it going to decision just as easily as i could see it ending in a KO.
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Sep 16, 2017 14:23
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You may find this video somewhat helpful in picking bets, Dwyer breaks down fights from a gambler's perspective and often gives his bet recommendations for fights. I haven't listened to this one entirely but from what I've heard he's picking Golovkin to win big and says Canelo is easy pickings for him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqs0QjWzSUc He thinks Golovkin wins by knockout, but suggests betting on Golovkin to win and hedging with an under bet, i.e. betting the fight goes under 9.5 or 10.5 rounds. The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 14:38
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here's my overly specific prediction: canelo gets dropped early, rallies in the middle round, ggg takes over late for a late stoppage or ud. remember that this is just the opinion of a stranger online...
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Sep 16, 2017 14:58
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Been a fan of the goofy faced Kazakh since I tuned in randomly to see him break Matthew Macklin's ribs in some casino Glad that he's got the mega fight he deserves, hope it hasn't come too late for him.
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Sep 16, 2017 15:25
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https://twitter.com/Grabaka_Hitman/status/905590778784833536 GGG is my spirit animal.
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Sep 16, 2017 15:38
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That analysis ninth layer posted is brutal. He basically says that Canelo doesn't have the footspeed or urgency to dictate distance and will be at a big, big disadvantage against a fighter who pushes the pace and makes angles for all 180 seconds of every round. He further says Canelo loves it when guys predictably come right at him, and I guess all boxers do, but a better phrasing might be that Canelo doesn't have the footwork to cope when that doesn't happen? He says Canelo should not fight this fight at golovkins preferred range/angle, but won't won't have the foot work to do anything about it.
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Sep 16, 2017 16:16
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Watching Golovkin stalk dudes around the ring is intimidating as gently caress and my favorite thing to watch in boxing right now. If he does that to Canelo for ~6+ rounds then I will have gotten my money's worth. What are some undercard fights to pay close-ish attention to? E: has golovkin ever spent any decent amount of time on the ropes? I can't think of anything at the moment.
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Sep 16, 2017 16:19
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Anybody got the chyron from an old GGG fight where he said his favorite food was MEAT?
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Sep 16, 2017 16:22
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https://twitter.com/ryansongalia/status/908033670182604800
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Sep 16, 2017 16:31
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Here's an undercard preview if y'all want one: Ryan Martin vs Francisco Rojo Ryan Martin is supposed to be a very good prospect, and so far he looks pretty decent. This is supposed to be a showcase fight, but it's also the most serious test Martin has had thus far. Rojo is by all accounts a decent fighter and will be coming into this fight to win. If Martin is as good as he's supposed to be this shouldn't be a great obstacle for him. That said, up and coming prospects always have some level of vulnerability to them and Rojo has pulled off an upset in the past. Diego De La Hoya vs Randy Caballero Diego is famed middleweight Oscar De La Hoya's nephew. He's a decent fighter, but a lot of people on't think he'll live up to the precedent Oscar set. That's not bad, most boxers don't become legends, but there are some expectations people have when you have the name. Diego has done decent stuff for his age, he's worked hard to get where he is, he's not an empty name like some other mexican fighters that have appeared on a Golden Boy card this year. Anyway, this fight is a pretty significant one for Diego so his handlers must think he's ready for the world stage. Caballero is also an undefeated fighter, but he's proven more about himself at this point in his career. Caballero has previously won the IBF bantamweight belt and looked good doing it. This a is a pretty tight match up, and most analysts I've seen have this even or have Diego as the underdog, so this is a make or break moment for him. Joseph Diaz Jr vs Rafael Rivera Rafael Rivera was a very late replacement that has made this fight a bit less interesting. Don't get me wrong, Joseph Diaz is a still a pretty decent name, a former Olympian and a potential future star, but that doesn't really sell a fight on it's own. I don't know much about Rivera, he's a domestic Mexican fighter who will probably be sold as a tough scrapper by the commentary team, and hopefully he's good enough to make the fight entertaining. Diaz certainly has his fair share of flaws, he's a particularly hard hitter for example, so Rivera can work with that even if he's not as skilled.
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Sep 16, 2017 17:24
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I'm not much of a boxing guy (my dad was crazy about Oscar de la Hoya, otherwise I didn't see much) but I've been waiting for GGG to fight something with a betting line like this for like three years. I'm in at GGG -149 and getting really happy drunk or really sad drunk later tonight.
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Sep 16, 2017 17:42
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It sounds like this is a very pro Golovkin crowd. Anyone here pulling for Canelo?
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Sep 16, 2017 20:19
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The Ninth Layer posted:You may find this video somewhat helpful in picking bets, Dwyer breaks down fights from a gambler's perspective and often gives his bet recommendations for fights. I haven't listened to this one entirely but from what I've heard he's picking Golovkin to win big and says Canelo is easy pickings for him. Hahah I didn't know Dwyer was still doing his thing. I see he still loves a "straddle". He was a loving terrible tipster last time I looked.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:22
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Dwyer's one of the few boxing guys on youtube I still follow, just for his fight breakdowns and the way he takes apart matchups. He doesn't always make the right call (and fairly often he's way off) but even when I disagree with his take on a fight I still usually get something out of his perspective or find a new way to think about a match.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:34
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Yeah, right or wrong he made a great case, building his argument piece by piece, it was much more thorough than I usually see. He's given me a whole new perspective to watch the fight from, regardless of how correct he'll be.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:42
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The Saunders - Monroe Jr card is on if anyone wants some early boxing, Daniel Dubois just sparked another fool
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Sep 16, 2017 20:49
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So is this the contender fight to decide who fights Conor McGregor next?
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Sep 16, 2017 20:54
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Le Saboteur posted:So is this the contender fight to decide who fights Conor McGregor next? well, after Conor knocks out Paulie Malagaggi
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Sep 16, 2017 20:56
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The Ninth Layer posted:Fights with Amir Khan and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. may not have been competitive, but each fighter challenged Alvarez with exceptional speed and exceptional size, respectively. 
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Sep 16, 2017 21:10
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Losing my edge as boxing memelord of The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > Rowdy Ringsports got me like 
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Sep 16, 2017 21:34
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McGregor could take both these clowns, but let's face it the Mexican toughness is the big factoid that everyone is ignoring, genady Golovkon power won't phase him and he will get KOed by his stupidity
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Sep 16, 2017 21:41
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What time UK is this on?
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Sep 16, 2017 22:00
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main event around 3am i believe all being well
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Sep 16, 2017 22:04
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Something I just noticed is that the eight fighters on the televised ppv card have only 3 losses between them; six of them including Golovkin are undefeated. Lotta 0s that gotta go.
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Sep 16, 2017 22:09
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thehappyprince posted:main event around 3am i believe all being well Really? I thought it would be a 5am-er. I might stay up if it's 3
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Sep 16, 2017 22:24
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i'm just going off what it says in the op tbh. i'm already flagging so it probably will end up being 5am because all of the undercard fights will go to points
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Sep 16, 2017 22:36
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Lionel Richie posted:Really? I thought it would be a 5am-er. I might stay up if it's 3 It's Vegas so it'll probably be around 5am
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Sep 16, 2017 22:36
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i just remembered it's buffer doing all the intros so it may well be 5am next saturday by the time the main starts
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Sep 16, 2017 22:48
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My god it's only 6 pm
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Sep 16, 2017 23:20
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I'm hype. I think GGG has it relatively easy, and I'm pulling for him -- but I *could* see it going either way, because while GGG is a monster, he's also cocky, and one day he's gonna wave in a shot that does phase him. I hope that's not today.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:25
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I don't dislike Canelo but it's funny how boxing can make you really excited to see a skilled, charming and relatively inoffensive fighter get the poo poo beaten out of him. Big drama show!!!
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Sep 16, 2017 23:41
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I don't care at all who wins this fight, I'm just really happy we get to see it. I think whomever consistently sticks the other guy with body shots is gonna win late. If i had to pick I'd take GGG in the 11th by TKO. I just hope we don't get yet another high profile terrible decision 
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Sep 16, 2017 23:45
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Mayweather vs McGregor taught me that one of my local theatres shows boxing ppvs on the relatively cheap, so now I am a fan of boxing.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:06
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Rooting for Canelo because he's the underdog and he has such a cute little fighting nickname  Gramps posted:I don't care at all who wins this fight, I'm just really happy we get to see it. But mostly this, I'm amped for this one.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:13
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