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Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!

yronic heroism posted:

You're making this hard on me because your reasoning is pro-town and tyr's was scummier. Of course anyone can post objective math/logic. So I agree we should get back to cases.

So. Yronic. After doing math and etc to show why cop reveal is bad why do you still want to kill me?

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QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Yeah, I feel better about Exmond after this exchange. I'd probably go for T-Rex or Thran right now, but I want to reread the latter's posts.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

I haven't voted for you yet today but still find you more suspicious than average. Posting sound math is a good thing but it's not like scum can't do it to appear town.

QPQ is justified in voting rex right now. I am curious to hear if anyone has cases to make against someone besides you and rex though.

Thranguy
Apr 21, 2010


Deceitful and black-hearted, perhaps we are. But we would never go against the Code. Well, perhaps for good reasons. But mostly never.
I'm trying to figure out why the scum picked seb to kill. Okay, the two people who looked most town to me, maybe they also looked worth protecting and thus worth avoiding by the mafia. But seb was looking a lot more suspicious than yronic. sh, or muffin, so killing him gave us a lot more information than picking one of those. So why? The only two answers I can see are the exmund reverse psychology 'frame' qpq mentioned earlier or that the mafia literally rolled a die to prevent information leaking from their choice.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

^
Mafia edit: the above post was directed at ex.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

Thranguy posted:

I'm trying to figure out why the scum picked seb to kill. Okay, the two people who looked most town to me, maybe they also looked worth protecting and thus worth avoiding by the mafia. But seb was looking a lot more suspicious than yronic. sh, or muffin, so killing him gave us a lot more information than picking one of those. So why? The only two answers I can see are the exmund reverse psychology 'frame' qpq mentioned earlier or that the mafia literally rolled a die to prevent information leaking from their choice.

It wouldn't be a terrible move to kill seb for ex, though. It removes the most committed anti seb vote and now we have this "Wine in Front of Me" dilemma about what it means. And I'm the only person pushing against ex at the moment unless I'm missing someone, and since I know I'm not scum, it means whoever is scum isn't trying very hard to set up ex.

Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!

Thranguy posted:

I'm trying to figure out why the scum picked seb to kill. Okay, the two people who looked most town to me, maybe they also looked worth protecting and thus worth avoiding by the mafia. But seb was looking a lot more suspicious than yronic. sh, or muffin, so killing him gave us a lot more information than picking one of those. So why? The only two answers I can see are the exmund reverse psychology 'frame' qpq mentioned earlier or that the mafia literally rolled a die to prevent information leaking from their choice.

I think the last mafia player is new and is making mistakes, or is trying to make us turn against each other and used me as an obvious bait. If we hadn't had the math discussion I woulnd't of been confident enough to post some hard hitting MATH.

The math around the jaildooder and backup is a little rougher, but it comes out to DO NOT REVEAL.

Round A
7 people left
6 people under suspicion (Backup reveals)
#1 most suspicious dies
Jail dooder protects backup
mafia kills rando


Round B: JAILKEEPR ALIVE
5 people left
3 under suspicion (Revealed: Backup, jailer)
#1 most suspicious dies
jail dooder protects backup
mafia kills jailer

Round C:
3 people left
2 under suspicion (Revealed: Backup)


Round B: JAILKEEPER DEAD
5 people left
4 under suspicion (Revealed: Backup)
#1 most suspicious dies
Mafia kills Backup


Round C:
3 people left
3 under suspicion (Revealed: Noone)

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

On the other hand T. rex is scummy seeming for posting bad reveal advice, I just can't believe it would be as easy as both T. rex and minus1 being scum as the top suspects yesterday. Would rex really target seb for a night kill? I don't see it.

I'm open to persuasion but right now I've persuaded myself.
##vote exmond

Thranguy
Apr 21, 2010


Deceitful and black-hearted, perhaps we are. But we would never go against the Code. Well, perhaps for good reasons. But mostly never.
Thought of one more possibility; mafia might have thought 'if there's a cop they'll probably investigate seb', so killing him limits the town's information.

And if there had been a jailkeeper holding seb, we'd have no kill and probably have lynched seb, so the plan works in both scenarios.

Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!

Thranguy posted:

Thought of one more possibility; mafia might have thought 'if there's a cop they'll probably investigate seb', so killing him limits the town's information.

And if there had been a jailkeeper holding seb, we'd have no kill and probably have lynched seb, so the plan works in both scenarios.

Reading through I think SebMojo may have been killed because of these posts:

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

FWIW, the thing I am most thinking is exmond

1) TD/CC poster, likely knows who mojo is
2) knows mojo is a huge threat based on that
3) was pushing a joking "hahaha what if we lynched somebody known in CC to be very clever and on-to-it on day 1 haha wouldn't that be crazy" way further than the joke needed

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Not his in-game role, just that he's super well known in this part of the forum and he's known for being really good at poo poo.


As well as uhh somebody making a dumb lovely joke over avatars...

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

yronic heroism posted:

On the other hand T. rex is scummy seeming for posting bad reveal advice, I just can't believe it would be as easy as both T. rex and minus1 being scum as the top suspects yesterday. Would rex really target seb for a night kill? I don't see it.

I'm open to persuasion but right now I've persuaded myself.
##vote exmond

I don't see a scum player, especially a new scum player, spending that much effort to defend a mass claim that could possibly turn sour on him. There's no point in Exmond exposing himself that aggressively when he could have just remained silent and let T-Rex take the lead on a bad strategy.

Also, "too scummy to be scum" arguments tend to assume that Mafia players are geniuses who are in perfect control of how others perceive them

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

But does trex as scum really go after seb? That part I don't see so much. He's not even voting/pushing ex.

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007
I can't post much ATM because busy at work, but Thranguy is slowly redeeming himself in my eyes. Exmond is still giving me vibes like he's a bumbling newbie, so it's either that or he is way more deviously cunning than I thought.

I know fuckall about math, but my tummy is starting to lean toward Trex. I guess the most pragmatic way to go about it would be to lynch our most suspicious person, and then hope that the power roles will either block/investigate the second most suspicious person as a backup plan in case we're wrong. If suspect #1 is town, but there's no night kill, we might be able to deduce that we have a jailkeeper and were correct about suspect #2. If there's a cop they can obvs reveal if suspect #2 is scum.

If there is a kill and the cop doesn't reveal, we can deduce we were wrong about both people right?

idk, I suck at the thinkier parts of games like this. And I'm still getting a grasp on strategy.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

yronic heroism posted:

But does trex as scum really go after seb? That part I don't see so much. He's not even voting/pushing ex.

It could be a frame job

It could have been random

It could have been Thunderdome-related meta

T-Rex hasn't been the most active player so I have difficulty really divining his motives. All I know is that his actions strike me as scummier than virtually any other player atm.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

ur doing great sitting here

~~~i believe in u~~~

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007

QuoProQuid posted:

ur doing great sitting here

~~~i believe in u~~~

only scum would think this

not mafia scum, just regular scum

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
:hb: Votecount for Day 2 :hb:

Exmond (1): yronic heroism
Tyrannosaurus (1): QuoProQuid
QuoProQuid (1): Tyrannosaurus

Not Voting (4): Exmond, Sitting Here, SurreptitiousMuffin, Thranguy

With 7 people still trapped in the library, it takes 4 votes to execute someone.
The current deadline is September 24th, 2017 at 5:30 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 5 hours.

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007
so uh you fellas wanna lynch someone or

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

You need to cast your vote too \_(ツ)_/

Just vote your first choices and let's talk when we see where we end up.

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007

yronic heroism posted:

You need to cast your vote too \_(ツ)_/

Just vote your first choices and let's talk when we see where we end up.

oh right.

with a heavy sigh I ##vote tyrannosaurus

Tyrannosaurus
Apr 12, 2006
votes for mafia, is mafia

Brilliant deductions everybody you got me

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

If no one else is feeling ex I will probably change my vote. I'm guessing if trex is town someone can always jail/investigate ex if he's the next likely suspect.

Thranguy
Apr 21, 2010


Deceitful and black-hearted, perhaps we are. But we would never go against the Code. Well, perhaps for good reasons. But mostly never.
When ty voted b-minus he was the first one, with no justification but revenge. No way of expecting it would get traction.
voting qpq makes no sense at all; the b-minus train would have gone nowhere without them. Mafia deliberately stage-managing the loss of their power role is a few more dimensions than chess can go.
And b-minus's malformed vote for ty is looking even more suspicious now, as is the lack of correction when called on that.

##vote tyrannosaurus, which should put us at -1.

Tyrannosaurus
Apr 12, 2006
Just kill me. You're all loving stupid.

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007

Tyrannosaurus posted:

Just kill me. You're all loving stupid.

:eyepop:

if we're stupid then what's the obvious choice, here?

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

it would be cool if t-rex played the game instead of shouting at people everytime he got a vote

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

i legit have no idea who t-rex thinks is scum because his only serious contribution to the game was his mass claim strategy

also, this post:

Tyrannosaurus posted:

votes for mafia, is mafia

Brilliant deductions everybody you got me

is hellaciously bad.

i think t-rex is cornered scum. i think he's trying the same guilt-trip strategy that exmond went out on

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

An additional point of interest: If T-Rex is not scum, then why hasn't the real scum hammered him?

He's been at -1 for half of the day. The lack of a lynch suggests that he is scum or that scum has already voted for him, in which case the town can focus on Thranguy, Sitting Here, and myself tomorrow.

Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!
Hey guys I'm out at a friends place. Will post tommorrow.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
hi guys I'm here, I'm just kinda hung over.

I gotta get some Chinese food or something but I'll try to get my thoughts together.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
Okay got my sweet and sour pork, got my wontons. THOUGHTS.

I am suspicious of:

T-rex

FOR
1) has been talking very little, not really adding much
2) is acting suspicious as gently caress now the vote's turned on him (all "WOE IS ME" like bminus was)
3) hasn't been hammered yet

AGAINST
4) hasn't really said much to incriminate himself either.
5) lack of a hammer could be an intentional scum play? Either they've already voted or they're waiting for somebody else to vote so they get away with cleans hands. Current not voting: me, Exmond.

MIXED

6) supported the cop reveal (sort of)

Tyrannosaurus posted:

No, but if someone claims the cop erroneously then that means one of two things:

1) The real cop shows up. We now know its one of two people and we kill them sequentially. Town wins.
2) There is no real cop. We're playing with a jailkeeper who can reveal themselves. Town wins.

If the real cops claims and mafia fakeclaims jailkeeper, we still have it down to two people and we kill them sequentially. Town wins.

This only works because we managed to kill mafia on day 1

Exmond

FOR
1) quarrelled with Mojo, Mojo died. On further consideration, I don't think "TOO OBVIOUS" holds a massive amount of weight -- you're working under the assumption all scum are Machiavellian geniuses when they're just forum posters like you and me.
2) public call for a doctor protect, which is scummy as hell.

AGAINST

3) has been putting in a lot of good scumhunting work today. Solid numbers and strategy, doesn't strike at all like scum behaviour.

MIXED
4) supported (and initially had the idea for?) the cop reveal.

right now I'm leaning Trex but I could change my mind dammit Trex you ain't no bitch, just fight

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
these have been a few of my hungover thoughts.

supplemental: did my tongue always feel hairy or is that something that happens when the alcohol wears off?

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

these have been a few of my hungover thoughts.

supplemental: did my tongue always feel hairy or is that something that happens when the alcohol wears off?

it's normal for a growing boy to get hair in weird places

anyway, if trex is innocent, I say the rank of suspicions should go exmond, thran, me or QPQ, muffin and yronic

Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!
Yo does jailer prevent the mafia from killing people? So if the jailer jailed the mafia guy then nobody would die right?

Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!

Exmond posted:

Yo does jailer prevent the mafia from killing people? So if the jailer jailed the mafia guy then nobody would die right?

Also shouldn't T-rex do his claim? T-rex what role are you

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
:hb: Votecount for Day 2 :hb:

Tyrannosaurus (3): QuoProQuid, Sitting Here, Thranguy
Exmond (1): yronic heroism
QuoProQuid (1): Tyrannosaurus

Not Voting (2): Exmond, SurreptitiousMuffin

With 7 people still trapped in the library, it takes 4 votes to execute someone.
The current deadline is September 24th, 2017 at 5:30 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 5 hours, 55 minutes.

Exmond
May 31, 2007

Writing is fun!
Ill Hammer in 3 hours i guess?

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Hammer now. No one is posting and an early hammer is better than letting the game atrophy.

If T-Rex flips town, look at the people who voted for him early.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Exmond posted:

Yo does jailer prevent the mafia from killing people? So if the jailer jailed the mafia guy then nobody would die right?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

quote:

A Jailkeeper (or Jailer)'s Night Action is one that protects its target from kills, but also Roleblocks its target. Unlike Doctor, Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.

Because it is a combination Doctor and Roleblocker, Jailkeeper has a myriad of uses while not allowing broken combinations or exactly confirming anyone as Town or scum. Thus, it has risen to prominence as a very popular power role.

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Tyrannosaurus
Apr 12, 2006

Exmond posted:

Ill Hammer in 3 hours i guess?

Why wait? Do it now you little bitch boy. loving do it. Do it.

I'm sorry none of you understand "math." Jesus your world's must be frightening places to live in what being filled with devilry and witchcraft.

As I will not live to see the morning, I am compelled to tell the cop--who I know for a fact exists-- do not reveal yourself next round. There won't be a doctor to protect you. I don't want to give too much away before the axe drops but..

I A M T H E D O C T O R

It's been real, guys. Real dumb.

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