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Warning: this is a long post. I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I'm not about to touch the poop in E/N - please tell me if there is somewhere else I should ask this. I work for a company with 15 employees. It is a computer company that is open 24/7/365. I am the manager on nights / weekends (I work graveyard, midnight-9AM). The day shift manager is my boss, and the owners work remotely and only come to the office perhaps 2-3 times a month. I am often left in charge of the entire company when the bosses go away for the weekend. They give me their satphone number and say call if there is a massive problem. My judgement alone is what goes on night shift when they are not around. I am not 100% sure of my title however I am the guy they trust the company to on nights when the bosses are asleep; I have the ability to call people in to work, etc, and when they go out of town it's just me calling the shots. I am having a problem with a fellow employee. This guy has been my friend for a long time and has worked there longer than me (5 years as opposed to my 3yrs). He is semi-management I guess (we dont really have titles in such a small company). He routinely comes in about 1.5-2hrs late to work which the bosses seem to tolerate when I mentioned it (the only issue with him I have previously reported to them, and only once - which resulted in the bosses saying "DU -HAST SAID..." which caused a conflict about a year ago, though no change in behavior). He then goes directly to sleep. When you ask him a question, ie "hey where is this" or "hey can you do this" he gets aggressive and angry at the mere request and rarely does it, to the point that it is just easier to let him sleep. Something important to note: this guy is pretty close to the day shift manager, who is essentially the Fuhrer of the company - what he says, goes (and the bosses always agree with him). I absolutely respect this guy as well, and would do anything and everything he says; if he said to the bosses that they should fire me I would agree with his judgement - that's how much I (and literally all other employees) respect the day manager. That said we are buddies, I really like(d) this guy though he is essentially a giant douche. My problem is this: Yesterday, I asked him a question "hey where is this switch so that I can plug a cable from it to this device". He said "somewhere near <location> (and gave the wrong location) and its the last plug on this switch". I asked him to clarify and he said just look, its the last plug on this switch (without giving the details). I said "Well can you show me". This is where things get weird. He said "quit acting like a loving bitch" (and not jokingly). He continued to berate me ("you're lazy, trying to get me to do all the work, etc" - despite having come in 1.5hrs late and gone directly to sleep). I told him "Hey please do not call me a bitch, that word is kinda off limits for me". He continued to call me a bitch and said "gently caress you for $20 I'll show you, but you've gotta grow some balls." This was at the end of the shift so the other guy that was there quickly and wisely beat his retreat. I did not escalate, just saying things like "hey I just need to know where this thing is located". I told him, after being called a bitch approx 10 times, "Hey look, please don't call me a bitch, that's like insulting my mother or something to me - it's off limits. Call me a shithead and then show me where this thing is." He paused for 10 seconds and said, "OK, you loving bitch." I said, come on man don't call me that. He eventually showed me where this thing was. The distance between our locatation and the item is approx 45 feet so its not like I'm asking him to march around. So we came back and I said look man let's sleep on this and talk about it tomorrow. Then I made the mistake of telling my boss "hey he's calling me a bitch, I told him to stop and that word has real meaning to me and I calmly asked him to stop calling me that - and even told him he can call me an rear end in a top hat, but that word is off limits for me". My boss then talked to him and asked him what was going on (I don't know exactly what was said) and why there was an issue going on. (The boss is remote, all of this is done through messaging applications and not face to face). So today I figured we'd smooth it over and all would be good again. Today: "Hey are we gonna talk about this or not?" I then basically said look man, you're my friend, I just would like an apology for calling me a bitch like that after I asked you to stop, then we're good to go. He proceeded then to go on a rant about how he would have not interaction with me until I "grow a loving pair" "stop acting like a bitch and I won't call you one" and quit "snitching to the boss and be a man." I tried yesterday to smooth this over and tried again today; I don't need this loving conflict as it interferes with my ability to do my job properly since if there is an emergency then I will need him to help, ie if a whole power strip fails and 15 servers go offline, I need him to come help me move them or be available to tell customers that we're working on the problem. I know he probably will not comply now. I feel I am really in the right on this situation; I did not call him names or say anything like that. I will admit that about 10% of the issue is that we have some similar characteristics - if you stand up and yell at me that I'm a loving lazy bitch I'm going to continue to escalate the conflict, and he is the same in this; this time I wanted to make sure that this went away and I behaved appropriately so I was polite through-and-through. Another 10% of my anger, and all 20% of this I fully admit is "my poo poo" is that he comes 2 hrs late, goes to sleep, and leaves me to do his job as well. This is normally fine but sometimes, since he's been here longer than me, I don't know where something was set up 5 years ago before I worked there and he is the only one that would, since he has been there longer. He continued to label me a snitch which I think is due to my personal relationship with one of the bosses. Sometimes I'll talk to him about dumb poo poo when he's online and nothing is going on - guns, dating life, "is a hot dog a sandwitch", and dumb poo poo. This does not stop said boss from being my boss, and the amount of flak I get for any mistakes made when they are asleep proves that. I don't think this relationship is inappropriate in any way - it's a small company (15 people spread over 3 shifts a day 7 days a week) but the relationship is EXTREMELY clearly on both sides that he is my boss first and sometimes my friend second. I explained essentially everything that I've written here to that boss today and asked him to take no action. I told him I felt disrespected by this and uncomfortable working with someone that behaves this way. I also (probably made the mistake of) said that this is the kind of thing that would result in termination anywhere I'd ever worked before. I stated that I wasn't sure what to do on this issue, that it bothered me that this was the result of the "make up". I also asked the boss to take no action since it would validate his point that I came running to them and "snitched". Currently I am at a loss as to what to do here. I need this job and can't quit. I am probably higher than (at very least equal) to him in employment status, but his work ethic is awful; his response to customer rate is about 20% of what mine is and 40% of the next lowest rate (we aren't judged by this - clients open tickets more often during the day - his shift - than night, he comes in 2 hours late (which I mentioned to the bosses once and apparently they took no action on) and does no work. What should I do here? I can't talk it out with him and going to the bosses would cause significant strife especially since it's just me, him, and another guy on the shift and its a small company - I don't want to be the guy that calls in HR to solve his issues, but I am unsure what to do. edit: to clarify, my shift is midnight-9AM, his is 5AM - 2 though he generally comes in at about 6:30 edit2: also the highly respected day manager is out with apparently an extremely bad injury - apparently he got hit by a car while on his bike or something edit3: sorry. another thing is the word bitch for me has a distinct meaning - I was gang raped multiple times when I was 20 and that word was a common theme during those incidents - he is aware of this, since I've know him for years and we've talked about life, etc du -hast fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 20:20
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So that's where Radium ended up. It sounds like you are probably more friends with him than he is with you. It can't possibly be a positive relationship for you. I would document his hours and productivity over a week or two, tell the bosses to do the needful and then  as it's obvious that he won't ever make an effort to do his job or even being a decent human being.
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Sep 19, 2017 21:01
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du -hast posted:What should I do here? I can't talk it out with him and going to the bosses would cause significant strife especially since it's just me, him, and another guy on the shift and its a small company - I don't want to be the guy that calls in HR to solve his issues, but I am unsure what to do. I'd personally recommend focusing your energy on the third option.
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Sep 19, 2017 21:31
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du -hast posted:I will admit that about 10% of the issue is that we have some similar characteristics - if you stand up and yell at me that I'm a loving lazy bitch I'm going to continue to escalate the conflict, and he is the same in this; this time I wanted to make sure that this went away and I behaved appropriately so I was polite through-and-through. Another 10% of my anger, and all 20% of this I fully admit is "my poo poo" is that he comes 2 hrs late, goes to sleep, and leaves me to do his job as well. This is normally fine but sometimes, since he's been here longer than me, I don't know where something was set up 5 years ago before I worked there and he is the only one that would, since he has been there longer. Are you sure the first sentence of this is true? From your story, if someone repeatedly calls you a bitch, your response seems to be to become paralyzed with fear to the point where you explain the situation in detail to your boss but then ask them to take no action for fear of your "friend"'s further retaliation. I'm also not sure how you arrived at the statement that part of "[your] poo poo" is his coming to work late, sleeping on the job, and making you do his work for him. Those are all things that he is doing, not you, and the last of those things is something which should not be accepted in a professional environment. (Some people might say none of those behaviors are acceptable in a professional environment, even!) You need to understand that this person is not your friend - maybe he was once, at some point, but now he's abusing the company in general and abusing you in particular.
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Sep 19, 2017 22:06
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fantastic in plastic posted:You need to understand that this person is not your friend - maybe he was once, at some point, but now he's abusing the company in general and abusing you in particular. Basically this, I would personally not tolerate this kind of behavior from a colleague and I'd get pretty mad if someone called me bitch unironically more than once. Sounds like you are not big on confrontation OP, so this guy rightly assumes he can walk all over you (and the company) and face no consequences. If life doesn't have you trapped in this job I would seriously consider looking for new employment. In your new job you need to make sure that a single power strip failure will not result in a production server outage, that is the scariest part of this story. 
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Sep 19, 2017 23:55
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Record his behavior and drop that on the boss-boss's desk. Proof of his attitude and actions at work will sort him out in quick order. Refuse to work shifts with him and document EVERYTHING for the eventual meltdown that is going to happen. Two outcomes; 1. Bosses reprimand him and he gets more confrontational with you, leading to an assault charge when he finally boils over. Which you file a restraining order for and/or he is fired. 2. You quit.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:27
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Hey guys Thank you for the responses - sorry I didn't return to the thread earlier. I work grave as I said so I posted this on my "Friday night" and then proceeded to wallow in a BAC .3+ stupor for a couple days. I talked to a good friend of mine who is a lawyer and he recommended two things: a) freeze the guy out. clearly he wants more conflict and, like you guys said, feels like he can walk all over me. I'm a way way way more important assest to this company than he is. That said, the bosses seem to know he's late all the time and take no action to correct this, which makes me wonder like where his connection is. He's good friends with the day manager, who, had he been here this would not have happened or gotten sorted out quicker. Anyway I'm just gonna ignore him. I'm working on my CCNA (though I already do the job) and am trying to make my escape in a few months. While it's tempting to drop all of this on the bosses desk and refuse to work with him, at this point I don't think that's too viable. b) record everything: specifically write down the time that he arrives. He's supposed to be here at 5 AM, so keep a record of all times he's late (which is gonna be every day). I can't quit at this time, though it is tempting, because this company actually likes me and treats me well (ignoing this conflict, I like the people I work for and they seem to have big plans for me). I don't want to be the one that starts the next drama - that's excatly what he wants I think. He's been here a long time and so has some sort of protection/senoirity that I am not seeing, as far as I can tell. So I'm just gonna say "hello" and then let him go to sleep and continue to do his work. I am planning on leaving this company eventually (depending on raises at the end of the year). I'm not sure if it will blow over - the first time I will be seeing him since this last incident is between 2-4 hours from now, depending on when he shows up. Also my other coworker has to leave early so it's just gonna be me + this guy. I'm just gonna hold the line for now and see where this goes - I told the bosses the whole thing but asked them to take no action since I don't want to escalate it further. Anyway the ball's in his court; I'm gonna record / video any problematic conversations with him, and see how things go. I need this job and am comfortable in it- if necessary I can hold out until I have the certification and am able to quit comfortably. The last thing I want to do is lose this job; not getting cucked by this shithead honestly comes second here. I'm 99% sure he'll gently caress up again in some way or another and hopefully the previous issue + recording times he comes in + whatever the next problem is will make a difference. Thanks for all the suggestions and if you have any more ideas on this please let me know.
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Sep 22, 2017 11:23
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If you're on good terms with the boss, then gently caress that guy. Don't go out of your way to instigate more conflict, but also definitely don't be afraid to blow the whistle when the shitbird is being a shitbird. If your boss is reasonable, he/she'll appreciate the fact that you're looking out for the team by trying to avoid useless conflict. If the dude is mad that you "snitched" on him, that means he knows he's doing something wrong and worthy of getting a fire lit under his rear end. Personally, I'd just hit him with the old "i'm just doing my job" and watch him lose his mind in response to your complete indifference to the situation. there's a huge difference between running to the boss any time someone does something just slightly over the line of acceptable, and mentioning to the boss that your co-worker is an insolent, argumentative shithead constantly
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Sep 22, 2017 16:48
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If it makes you feel better, every time I've heard this situation play out, unless the deadbeat is an actual direct relative of the owners it inevitably turns out that they're not nearly as tight with management as they thought they were. Chances are the bosses figure "well, he can't be slacking too badly as long as the work keeps getting done" and don't really have any idea of how bad the situation really is.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:03
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Straight White Shark posted:If it makes you feel better, every time I've heard this situation play out, unless the deadbeat is an actual direct relative of the owners it inevitably turns out that they're not nearly as tight with management as they thought they were. Chances are the bosses figure "well, he can't be slacking too badly as long as the work keeps getting done" and don't really have any idea of how bad the situation really is. This. He's flying under the radar because his work is still done - I guarantee if you were to go on vacation or take leave, they'd notice his slacking (unless he knocked it off for that period).
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Sep 22, 2017 22:28
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Popoi posted:You can be that guy, or you can be the guy who works with an unhelpful rear end in a top hat, or you can be the guy who works for a different and less dysfunctional company. This dude isn't your friend. Ice him, document his poo poo, and leave him out to dry. If the situation were reversed and this dude didn't want you around, he'd gently caress you over in a heartbeat. Alternatively, just stop doing your job and show up 3 hours late every day. Apparently nobody gives a gently caress at your work and it's impossible to get fired.
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Sep 24, 2017 05:51
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Keep working, keep your head down, let this guy fail for himself.
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Sep 25, 2017 07:39
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photomikey posted:Keep working, keep your head down, let this guy fail for himself. Yeah, it's only been 5 years, he's bound to fail any minute now.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:45
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You're loving with a made man who made your direct superior his puppet? Challenge him to a fight. Worked for me, even though I lost.
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Sep 25, 2017 11:00
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I've dealt with many types who worked hardest at trying not to work and conjuring drama than doing even the smallest of tasks. The only course of action I found that succeeded was limiting contact as much as possible, because somehow they've mastered the art of baffling their superiors with bullshit. An unwinnable fight. Sometimes they'll ruin the good thing they've got going, but only on their own terms and merits. But sometimes not. Either way, let them be, and look for another job.
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Sep 26, 2017 20:53
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^^ I will append that sage advice with my parallel observation: The only thing gained by pointing out the slacker to his superiors is that you look like a 2nd grade tattletale. Either they get it or they don't. There's not much you can do.
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Sep 27, 2017 02:59
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The most concerning thing about this is that you call him your friend and buddy, and say that you like him, in your first post. 
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Sep 27, 2017 10:11
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du -hast posted:I can't quit at this time, though it is tempting, because this company actually likes me and treats me well (ignoing this conflict, I like the people I work for and they seem to have big plans for me). What is your evidence for them having "big plans for you?"
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Sep 28, 2017 01:31
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Imo you should tell him to get his facts straight. Just say 'no thank you I am not a female dog'. OP gives off more of a chicken vibe anyway
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Sep 28, 2017 03:16
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There was a chart I saw one time that was really eye opening for me.  If this guy is really your friend he wouldn't treat you like poo poo. He's not your friend, don't be afraid to take action. Your bosses have seen fit to trust your judgement so don't let this rear end in a top hat walk all over you calling you a bitch. SalTheBard fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 03:31
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wtf is the traffic test? Like, you get along during traffic?
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Sep 28, 2017 13:42
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googled it apparently it's when your friend is a safe driver 
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Sep 28, 2017 13:43
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N. Senada posted:wtf is the traffic test? Like, you get along during traffic? Essentially, I Googled a bit: https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner-part-2.html 1) An Epic Friendship I enjoy spending time with most of my friends—that’s why they’re my friends. But with certain friends, the time is so high-quality, so interesting, and so fun that they pass the Traffic Test. The Traffic Test is passed when I’m finishing up a hangout with someone and one of us is driving the other back home or back to their car, and I find myself rooting for traffic. That’s how much I’m enjoying the time with them. Passing the Traffic Test says a lot. It means I’m lost in the interaction, invigorated by it, and that I’m the complete opposite of bored. To me, almost nothing is more critical in choosing a life partner than finding someone who passes the Traffic Test. When there are people in your life who do pass the Traffic Test, what a whopping shame it would be to spend 95% of the rest of your life with someone who doesn’t. A Traffic Test-passing friendship entails: A great sense of humor click. No one wants to spend 50 years fake laughing. Fun. And the ability to extract fun out of unfun situations—airport delays, long drives, errands. Not surprisingly, studies suggest that the amount of fun a couple has is a strong predictor for their future.6 A respect for each other’s brains and way of thinking. A life partner doubles as a career/life therapist, and if you don’t respect the way someone thinks, you’re not going to want to tell them your thoughts on work each day, or on anything else interesting that pops into your head, because you won’t really care that much what they have to say about it. A decent number of common interests, activities, and people-preferences. Otherwise a lot of what makes you ‘you’ will inevitably become a much smaller part of your life, and you and your life partner will struggle to find enjoyable ways to spend a free Saturday together. A friendship that passes the Traffic Test gets better and better with time, and it has endless room to deepen and grow ever-richer.
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Sep 29, 2017 07:28
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Here is list of things you could try. 1.) Log everything and sue the company for a hostile work environment. 2.) Stop interacting with the guy. 3.) Next time he starts poo poo, kick his rear end. 4.) Quit I hate to say it but the dude has been pretty clear that if you don't stand up to him, gently caress all is going to change. I mean look at this quote: "He proceeded then to go on a rant about how he would have not interaction with me until I "grow a loving pair" "stop acting like a bitch and I won't call you one" and quit "snitching to the boss and be a man." I tried yesterday to smooth this over and tried again today; I don't need this loving conflict as it interferes with my ability to do my job properly " Senor P. fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 23:42
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To me, it is obvious that you cant make the situation better on your own since you are a doormat. You have to find out how to stand up for yourself by being honest with your superiors about what is going on. Documenting all of this is a great idea because then you can recall multiple situations of him exhibiting bad behavior/performance and also making it clear that this is a pattern and not just a few instances. If he routinely displays bad behavior (He should not call you an rear end in a top hat either!), shows up late and is uncooperative then this hampers performance and leads to long-term dissatisfaction. They want to know this. Also, more importantly, he is not your friend and a huge dick. A dick that might get higher positions and actually supervise people. Just imagine this situation if he was in a position above you. Also, watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAgg32weT80 If you document incidents like this and it is brought up during performance reviews, how exactly is he going to put a spin on arriving 1,5 hours late and sleeping on the job while being a dick? Midig fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 14:20
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What a helpful post full of suggestions the OP has already done/addressed.
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Oct 16, 2017 15:34
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LOL how does that guy have a job if he is that loving worthless. You have to be covering for him, even unintentionally, for him to keep it.
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Oct 17, 2017 05:31
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Just getting back in to hear what happened.
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Dec 11, 2017 00:02
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Have you tried growing a pair and not being a lil loving bitch?
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Dec 11, 2017 01:30
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Hey guys: I'm sorry that I didn't update this thread - I thought it had died and gone several pages back. The conflict simmered down and after a week it was sort of a semi-normal detente. That said, having talked to the bosses about it and no action was taken, I've been looking for another job - have two more interviews next week. It is disappointing that things had to turn out this way but I basically agree with everyone here (including the above poster) that I was viewing this as normal / something I had to cover for, rather than the actual objectively serious workplace issue that it is, and not being proactive enough in dealing with this problem. So I'm biding my time here now but not for long; had to get a certificate to increase my changes at another job place (which I did early this month). Anyway, I really appreciate all the suggestions - I think it's time to leave this place behind. I will definitely be making ta big point of this whole thing in the exit interview. I have also documented his incredible lateness to the day since this issue happened. Average is 1 hour and 42 minutes, if you are wondering  Sorry I forgot to reply, and thanks again for the suggestions, they added to the impetus to get another job that doesn't allow bullshit like this to happen.
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Dec 15, 2017 13:28
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Hope you get another job soon.
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Dec 16, 2017 13:44
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You have to stand up for yourself in those situations, OP. Don't get into a fight because gently caress getting sued over something like this but at least spit some fire back at him and then make every effort to get him fired. Man call you a bitch you gotta get up in that rear end Larry.
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Dec 21, 2017 19:56
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Why are you such a bitch, OP ?
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Dec 22, 2017 02:34
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get your resume updated and go work for a reputable company that doesn't let this poo poo happen. Edit: I wrote the above before reading the update from da OP. Good jorb. Any other method is likely to backfire spectacularly. KaiserSchnitzel fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 19:13
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I want to read more about du's incredible journey in employment.
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Jan 5, 2018 21:42
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1 hour and 42 minutes is extremely late. I work a pretty laid back office job, not even retail or anything, but if I come in more than 10 or 15 minutes late it's expected that I'll have some sort of excuse. An hour+ and it better be a good one.
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Jan 10, 2018 21:59
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On top of sleeping. I am moving to your country, just tell me where this is.
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Jan 12, 2018 02:15
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If this guy is asleep for a significant period every morning after he finally shows up, isn't he leaving himself vulnerable? You could remind him of that, if necessary with a club across the back of the neck. Or, if you don't want to commit criminal assault and battery, just keep recording how late he is, and his eventual time of awakening, and leave a nice little report for whoever replaces you, so they don't have to make the mistake of thinking this guy's a pal. Either way, good luck in your next job.
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Jan 14, 2018 06:30
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If dude's dragging his rear end to work to crash there, I'd wager he's got a substance abuse problem. Grown adults going on about "snitching" are hilarious. That's some middle school poo poo; if your poo poo attitude makes it so i can't do my job that's absolutely the bosses' problem and they need to know that.
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Jan 15, 2018 01:46
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I have no problems with "snitching" on co workers that can't and/or won't do their jobs and this is probably the norm for most people that have to work with idiots. Being afraid to call people out because of being labeled a snitch is pretty dumb.
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Jan 18, 2018 17:34
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