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Son of a Vondruke!
Aug 3, 2012

More than Star Citizen will ever be.


Gaz-L posted:

I want you to be wrong about Palicki, but The Orville will probably end up running longer than Bonanza

It has to at least run longer than Star Trek Discovery.

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Flatscan
Mar 27, 2001

Outlaw Journalist



Gaz-L posted:

I want you to be wrong about Palicki, but The Orville will probably end up running longer than Bonanza

The ratings are dog-poo poo so I doubt it.

biracial bear for uncut
Jun 9, 2009

Lets make a Panda!


Boywhiz88 posted:

That or he figures out the perfect way to torture them and goes back on his word.

Pretty sure that what is happening right now is exactly the perfect way to torture them all.

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


Also possible that Michael stole the four humans from the real good place. It seems like the more flashbacks we get, the more sympathetic the characters become. Or maybe they were each middle place situations and this is how the deal went down this time (they each add good into the world either after their deaths or because of them). So Sean actually knows what's up and that's why he hasn't retired Michael yet. Maybe they're even there as a means of reforming the demons, or as part of a bet between bad place bosses and good place bosses (whether Michael reforms or breaks maybe?).

The insanity of this show means anything is possible. We just know that we're likely to get some big twist at the end of the season that was hinted at the whole time.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
i like nice words


Schur has been saying in every interview there won't be a similar big twist for S2.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Cash Rules Everything Around Me


Grimey Drawer

HPanda posted:

Also possible that Michael stole the four humans from the real good place. It seems like the more flashbacks we get, the more sympathetic the characters become.

They've definitely become more sympathetic with time (particularly Chidi and Tahani, whose good/badness could be debated depending on your personal philosophy), but I'd say there's no way Jason wouldn't be in the Bad Place. I mean, the poor guy was probably too stupid to realize he was racking up bad points, but he was complicit in a bunch of bad stuff. I mean, he died attempting robbery.

Anne Whateley posted:

Schur has been saying in every interview there won't be a similar big twist for S2.

That's just what someone planning a big twist WOULD say!

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


TwoPair posted:

They've definitely become more sympathetic with time (particularly Chidi and Tahani, whose good/badness could be debated depending on your personal philosophy), but I'd say there's no way Jason wouldn't be in the Bad Place. I mean, the poor guy was probably too stupid to realize he was racking up bad points, but he was complicit in a bunch of bad stuff. I mean, he died attempting robbery.

But what if his action led to his friend becoming such a good person that it made up for all of that?

Maybe we'll get a reveal at some point that the robbery was to help someone in his 60-person dance troupe, so he intended good and died as a result. Lots of points there.

And fine, maybe no big reveal at the end of season, but maybe a reveal at some point?

Edit: Or what if Jason has good intentions for all of his bad actions? He is an idiot, after all. Or maybe it could harken back to Michael telling him that he was mistaken for someone else with the intelligence of a child. Maybe if someone can't know any better, they get some sort of handicap for points. Or points don't go up or down as a child and Jason just never registered as an adult. Lots of directions to go here. This is the sort of world where they can pretty easily decide on a destination and shape everything to get there.

HPanda fucked around with this message at Oct 18, 2017 around 01:56

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


HPanda posted:

Also possible that Michael stole the four humans from the real good place.
I feel like you're overlooking the fact that Eleanor was the worst.

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


Probably, but every flashback gives more extenuating circumstances to that initial terribleness. And maybe the real good place isn't as exclusive as we've been told.

Hell, for all we know, maybe she's actually a halfway decent person whose memories were wiped away except for all her worst times. She seems to latch onto morality way faster than a completely terrible person normally would. Then again, maybe that's just because she now has physical proof of eternal consequences. Anything's possible.

I'd normally just say that any character oddities that don't sync up were from lazy writing, but season one taught me not to underestimate this crew. Any little details could be hints.

Mimir
Nov 26, 2012


HPanda posted:

Probably, but every flashback gives more extenuating circumstances to that initial terribleness. And maybe the real good place isn't as exclusive as we've been told.

Hell, for all we know, maybe she's actually a halfway decent person whose memories were wiped away except for all her worst times. She seems to latch onto morality way faster than a completely terrible person normally would. Then again, maybe that's just because she now has physical proof of eternal consequences. Anything's possible.

I'd normally just say that any character oddities that don't sync up were from lazy writing, but season one taught me not to underestimate this crew. Any little details could be hints.

I'm gonna watch the poo poo out of the Eleanor's Life in Chronological Order [Full] YouTube video when this show is done.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011

DON'T LET THIS PICTURE OF AN ADORABLE KITTEN FOOL YOU INTO THINKING I'M NOT AN INSUFFERABLE AUTIST

HPanda posted:

extenuating circumstances

Eleanor sold fake medicine to dying old people.

There aren't any.

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


It's a show. There's always potential for something when the info is this incomplete.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

Eleanor had a bad childhood, but she was also a terrible person.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

HPanda posted:

But what if his action led to his friend becoming such a good person that it made up for all of that?

Maybe we'll get a reveal at some point that the robbery was to help someone in his 60-person dance troupe, so he intended good and died as a result. Lots of points there.

And fine, maybe no big reveal at the end of season, but maybe a reveal at some point?

Edit: Or what if Jason has good intentions for all of his bad actions? He is an idiot, after all. Or maybe it could harken back to Michael telling him that he was mistaken for someone else with the intelligence of a child. Maybe if someone can't know any better, they get some sort of handicap for points. Or points don't go up or down as a child and Jason just never registered as an adult. Lots of directions to go here. This is the sort of world where they can pretty easily decide on a destination and shape everything to get there.

The plan was to get bus money to leave Florida, or at least the town. He was acting under duress and desperation.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011

DON'T LET THIS PICTURE OF AN ADORABLE KITTEN FOOL YOU INTO THINKING I'M NOT AN INSUFFERABLE AUTIST

HPanda posted:

It's a show. There's always potential for something when the info is this incomplete.

I mean no there isn't, because the only possible explanation is "we just lied to you and none of that poo poo was real", which isn't like Michael telling them they are in The Good Place when they are really in The Bad Place. That lie has actual evidence of it's falsehood all around [Why is everything so lovely and difficult if they are in heaven?]. Everything we know about them being a lie doesn't re-contextualize anything. It's not clever, and there's no way to pay it off. Making that a twist would just be bad writing, and that still wouldn't make it work.

And if her life happened as we saw it, there's no possible justification. At all, ever. She sold fake medicine to sick old people, and was really, really good at it. Her selfishness is almost guaranteed to have a body count.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



HPanda posted:

Also possible that Michael stole the four humans from the real good place. It seems like the more flashbacks we get, the more sympathetic the characters become. Or maybe they were each middle place situations and this is how the deal went down this time (they each add good into the world either after their deaths or because of them). So Sean actually knows what's up and that's why he hasn't retired Michael yet. Maybe they're even there as a means of reforming the demons, or as part of a bet between bad place bosses and good place bosses (whether Michael reforms or breaks maybe?).

The insanity of this show means anything is possible. We just know that we're likely to get some big twist at the end of the season that was hinted at the whole time.

My theory early in S1 was around that they cut off part of your life on death to avoid remembering a traumatic death was that she eventually became a good person and did all of the things but only after that near death experience. It’s still ‘possible’ since we only have Michael’s word that she died in the supermaket parking lot but I’d be really really shocked if that’s where they go. I think we have to assume that the Michael and the bad place planning sessions happened as filmed. In which case he’s given the 4 names at the start of the project.

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


Michael withheld a memory from Tahani to make her more convinced she belonged in the good place with the intention of torturing her with it later. No reason he couldn't withhold good memories of Eleanor for similar purposes.

Did they ever reveal how long Eleanor remembers working there? I've only watched through once. If she explicitly remembers being there for more than a couple weeks, then sure. Otherwise, there's directions they could take, including redemption. Doing a really bad thing doesn't make a person a lost cause. That seems to be a theme on this show.

Supercar Gautier
Jun 10, 2006



A show puts in one twist, ONE twist, and people get obsessed with predicting more.

A twist every week! Nothing is real! What if up is secretly down? Destabilize every single element of the show's setting and stakes until it's a random stream of unreliable images!

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


Supercar Gautier posted:

A show puts in one twist, ONE twist, and people get obsessed with predicting more.

A twist every week! Nothing is real! What if up is secretly down? Destabilize every single element of the show's setting and stakes until it's a random stream of unreliable images!

Well, yeah. It's fun. That's what we do.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011

DON'T LET THIS PICTURE OF AN ADORABLE KITTEN FOOL YOU INTO THINKING I'M NOT AN INSUFFERABLE AUTIST

HPanda posted:

Did they ever reveal how long Eleanor remembers working there?

7 years.

What else you got?

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007


Soiled Meat

Supercar Gautier posted:

A show puts in one twist, ONE twist, and people get obsessed with predicting more.

A twist every week! Nothing is real! What if up is secretly down? Destabilize every single element of the show's setting and stakes until it's a random stream of unreliable images!

season 1 did have a twist every week, though, almost

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


Mulva posted:

7 years.

What else you got?

Mindy St Claire

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011

DON'T LET THIS PICTURE OF AN ADORABLE KITTEN FOOL YOU INTO THINKING I'M NOT AN INSUFFERABLE AUTIST

HPanda posted:

Mindy St Claire

Yeah, that's a character on the show. It's just not an argument for anything, in universe or narratively.

Lost really hosed a lot of people up.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



blue squares posted:

season 1 did have a twist every week, though, almost

Jianyu being Jason was a twist, but as far as I remember, everything else was just plot happening.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010



Infinitum Fanclub President


The Bad Place is coming from inside the thread

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

I'm waiting for when Michael inevitably gets rebooted, and Jason tries to explain to him what's going on.

HPanda
Sep 5, 2008


Character who was absolutely terrible does one really awesome thing and dodges eternal fire. Thought that argument spoke for itself since we're talking about if a different bad character can be redeemed in this universe.

Remember, we don't have all info. The writers can go a lot of different directions here. Maybe we don't get giant twists all the time now, but that doesn't mean we never get twists ever again.

The character interactions and incentives for the core cast should stay pretty stable from here on to avoid bad writing mishaps. Everything else is in the air, including deceptions from other characters and even main characters just withholding info. Even aspects of the nature of this universe can still change without invalidating character development.

Or maybe everything we know right now is absolute and the writers aren't pulling anymore fast ones. That just seems unlikely given what we've seen so far.

Otherkinsey Scale
Jul 17, 2012

Just a little bit of sunshine!


HPanda posted:

Michael withheld a memory from Tahani to make her more convinced she belonged in the good place with the intention of torturing her with it later. No reason he couldn't withhold good memories of Eleanor for similar purposes.

If you're talking about the memory of her death, one of the first rules that was established is that they would erase the memory of a particularly embarrassing death, so that's not new.

So far, aside from that, we've only seen Michael manipulate their post-mortem memories. And that's been pretty much a blunt instrument, erasing everything they remember since they died, rather than any kind of careful redaction. It wouldn't be a stretch if it turned out he could also change the memories of their lives, but it seems like it would make the whole situation less effective if they didn't remember anything that would make them think they belonged in the Good Place.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Grimey Drawer

Mulva posted:

Lost really hosed a lot of people up.

NecroMonster
Jan 4, 2009



the actual twist is that sean (or is it shawn?)knows it's been hosed this whole time and literally just doesn't loving care

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



Supercar Gautier posted:

A show puts in one twist, ONE twist, and people get obsessed with predicting more.

A twist every week! Nothing is real! What if up is secretly down? Destabilize every single element of the show's setting and stakes until it's a random stream of unreliable images!

To be fair, my thought process was more like. “She’s here for eternity, and if she’s really bad and is found out she’ll be eternally tortured. I Hughlander don’t want to conceive of a reality where Kristen Bell is eternally tortured, and how could Heaven gently caress up? Oh, she’s good but doesn’t realize it from her abridged memories and that’s the arc of the show.” All of this was at the start of S1 before the major twist was revealed.

BigBallChunkyTime
Nov 25, 2011

Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.




Illegal Hen

The show is entirely inside the imagination of a little autistic boy.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


So that's how Doug plays in to things.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

Eleanor's employer is in the news I see. http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/healt...invs/index.html

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Hell yes, the trolley problem

Arist
Feb 13, 2012



Oven Wrangler

holy gently caress michael

FELD1
Nov 4, 2009

Cat Army
2nd Battalion


Oh come on, Michael, it's obviously the multi-track drift that you use to kill all six.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

He came to the same conclusion as that one tiny child lmao

Arist
Feb 13, 2012



Oven Wrangler

ahahahahahaha ethics rap musical I love this show

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A Big Dark Yak
Dec 28, 2007
It's only the end of the world.

Tahani definitely picked the right person to go to here...

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