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Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!


One of the things that holds true across most iconic versions of the Joker is that he is a reaction to Batman, and not Bruce Wayne, and his madness and disfigurement is usually directly Batman's fault, the Heath Ledger version being a notable exception. Jerome and Jeremiah are both already mass murderers, leaders of a cultish gang, show a greater interest in proving some point than money or power, and have clown-like facial disfigurements, so what separates them from the Joker who menaces Gotham in the future?

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Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Dr Christmas posted:

One of the things that holds true across most iconic versions of the Joker is that he is a reaction to Batman, and not Bruce Wayne, and his madness and disfigurement is usually directly Batman's fault, the Heath Ledger version being a notable exception. Jerome and Jeremiah are both already mass murderers, leaders of a cultish gang, show a greater interest in proving some point than money or power, and have clown-like facial disfigurements, so what separates them from the Joker who menaces Gotham in the future?

Nothing, but I don't know if that's relevant to what the show's doing. Gotham's not really a prequel to anything specific; it only has to do right by itself, narratively speaking.

It's hard to imagine Jim and Barbara being an item again, for instance. Don't see Jim hooking up with Sarah Essen either. Canon isn't really a thing this show is wedded to. Who's to say there'll even be a Joker in the future?

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Especially since Essen's dead. Unless Hugo Strange resurrects her.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008


Batman being an answer to the freaks is a good spin.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Coach Bloodbutt
Default Status: POOPING



Mr Hootington posted:

Batman being an answer to the freaks is a good spin.

Gotham is a good show.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Mr Hootington posted:

Batman being an answer to the freaks is a good spin.

I personally love this take. Crime has infested Gotham for so long, that the organized criminals just keep getting crazier and crazier, and The Batman is a response to this.

Im Ready for DEATH
Oct 5, 2016




is anyone else just squeeing over the ed/lee romance

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Im Ready for DEATH posted:

is anyone else just squeeing over the ed/lee romance

Nygmobblepot 4 lyfe.

Actually.

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017

by R. Guyovich


Did Barbara really just put up a huge "No Boys Allowed" sign on her clubhouse?

That finale was basically this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6vBSdO2nmY#t=38s

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Booyah


VictorianQueerLit posted:

Did Barbara really just put up a huge "No Boys Allowed" sign on her clubhouse?


Superfriends? Meet the lesbifriends.

TheLoneStar
Feb 9, 2017



VictorianQueerLit posted:

Did Barbara really just put up a huge "No Boys Allowed" sign on her clubhouse?

That finale was basically this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6vBSdO2nmY#t=38s
Pretty much, Barbara's been like this for like, two seasons, man. At this point she's essentially acting like a middle schooler.


And I'm really hoping the next season picks up like, a week after this one ended instead of what they did with Hugo's monsters.

JediTalentAgent
Jun 5, 2005
Hey, look. Look, if- if you screw me on this, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, you rat bastard!

I don't know if I hate this turn in Barbara, to be honest. I'm sure it will get cringy before it's all over, but maybe it will add something. Barbara seems to be almost going into Penguin levels of violence, revenge, control, etc. Her "No Men Allowed", screwing with other people's plans and making them her own and killing those who have sworn loyalty to her seems not much different from Penguin's behavior over the last few years.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004



I watched this show over the past few weeks and uh, what a ride, but the presence of Bruce Wayne has been feeling like a heavy weight dragging down the show. I don't even mean the actor or the character, I actually like the character and his interactions with his butler, but they're so secondary to Gordon and yet treated as such a central piece that it made me feel at times that it was all disjointed.

I feel like this show pretty much overgrew Batman the character and watching the Ras Al Ghul plot I kept thinking that the only reason Wayne is important to them is only because he's important to us.

The way they kept emphasizing Bruce Wayne as the end-all-be-all was super weird and nonsensical, almost meta and cyclical. "I saw the future and if things suck you become the Batman so now I'll make things suck so that you become the Batman" only makes sense because we know the Batman is a character. Ras has nothing to gain from it. Ras goal was to die because living a lot sucked and there was a prophecy and it was an interest twist that Bruce killed him after swearing not to kill. So Ras fulfilled his goal, that was an arc. They bring him back, some dudes tell him they don't want Barbara because she's not being a great leader and Ras suddenly wants to live again and take his powers back what. That was such a weird turn of events. "The woman you put in power to shake things up is shaking things up and we don't like it, she's not doing what she's expected to do even though no one instructed her on anything and now we rise you from the dead against your will to be a leader again against your will" should be met with a "gently caress you" but he goes from rage to killing one of them to going back to Barbara and confronting her and now Bruce is his heir and that's just so nonsensical to me.

Overall I liked the show.

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.


To be honest, some of the last mini arc (the Joker stuff) felt like the writers had spent all their time focusing on that, but neglected all of the other storylines.

Like, they had the grand idea of Joker escalating things to a new level then at done point pivoted that into no man's land. In doing so though, they forgot that the progression of the other villains was nowhere near gangland level and had to scramble through a number of silly plots establishing them.

Namely all of the Barbara stuff.

It would explain the ivy no show because they either forgot about her completely or things were drafted so last minute that actress #3 wasn't available.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004



Oh yeah, since I didn't follow the series as it aired, what's up with Ivy having 3 actresses?

nooneofconsequence
Oct 29, 2012

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Elentor posted:

Oh yeah, since I didn't follow the series as it aired, what's up with Ivy having 3 actresses?

First one was too young for them to sex up, second one wasn't sexy enough(?).

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Elentor posted:

Oh yeah, since I didn't follow the series as it aired, what's up with Ivy having 3 actresses?

For some reason after casting a 12 year old and having her play the character for a couple of seasons, they decide they need an older, sexier Ivy, so they come up with a explanation of having a meta-human whose powers age people to death, briefly touch her to age her to a twenty something. Then that actress kills it in the role, but they decide they now need a "darker" Ivy, and recast after Ivy goes into a cocoon metamorphosis after taking some drugs. That actress is around for one or two eps, then vanishes.

Wouldn't be surprised if they recast again for next season

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Cybernetic Crumb

They should change her every episode with no acknowledgement or explanation

bring back old gbs
Feb 28, 2007

SEAT BELT MATERIAL IS NICE LOOKING. ALSO VERY STRONG. I WONDER WHAT IT IS MADE OUT OF? MAYBE ITS NOT THE MATERIAL BUT THE WEAVE?

WOUD LIKE A SEAT BELT MATERIAL T SHIRT....


nooneofconsequence posted:

First one was too young for them to sex up, second one wasn't sexy enough(?).

yeah it was this. and it was super gross, since there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with the original actress's performance other than she didn't get as 'hot' as the one who plays Selina so they traded her off for someone with cleavage. Literally the FIRST thing the new actress does is try to gently caress somebody in order to escape.

In a production that makes SO. MANY. GOOD. choices with their characters, it was one giant glaring mis-step that sorta casts a shadow over the entire thing.

bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at Jun 11, 2018 around 00:27

TheLoneStar
Feb 9, 2017



I thought it was because having a twelve year-old supervillain running around would just be weird. Though yeah, having a (mentally) underage character doing that kind of stuff is pretty hosed up.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

And the first Ivy's name was Ivy Pepper, not Pamela Isley. You got literally bring in the new actress and say she's Poison Ivy. Or introduce her as young Ivy's sister. There was no reason for them to go the route they did, other than they didn't want to take the time to establish a new character.

And they first Ivy and Selina had great chemistry together. It was a misstep to lose that.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Yeah, it was super weird that they went through all that effort with Ivy when they didn't have to and could have just brought in a new character.

bring back old gbs
Feb 28, 2007

SEAT BELT MATERIAL IS NICE LOOKING. ALSO VERY STRONG. I WONDER WHAT IT IS MADE OUT OF? MAYBE ITS NOT THE MATERIAL BUT THE WEAVE?

WOUD LIKE A SEAT BELT MATERIAL T SHIRT....


Like, they made young handsome Penguin gay, they steered RIGHT into it and made him confess his love for The fuggin Riddler who scorns him, and this causes one of the major conflicts of the season. Just because Riddler likes a lady instead, and Penguin is an immature weirdo who can't deal. So loving great. I love Penguin.

But then they dropped the ball so hard on the Ivy thing when there were other options. She was a homeless girl, have her older sister track her down. Simple as that, new character.

bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at Jun 11, 2018 around 01:03

kaynorr
Dec 31, 2003



I kind of preferred it when you had the "kids" with their plotlines (Bruce, Selina, Ivy, and to a much lesser extend Jonathan Crane) and then the adult stuff centering around Jim Gordon. Provided a nice change of pace and it wasn't so jarring that you had these teenagers doing things like owning nightclubs and waltzing into GCPD on a weekly basis.

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Elentor
Dec 14, 2004



When I look at Gordon's face I for the first time understand when Billy West said every time he saw Nixon he pictured a werewolf going aroooo.

Gordon's constant look of anger showing his lower set of teeth while having his face tilted down makes me think he's resisting the moon constantly, but he really just wants to go arooooo as well.

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