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Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Davros1 posted:

Seeing this is the show that recast Ivy because the 15 year old playing her wasn't sexy enough, no, I'm not surprised.

And also because she, you know, had basically no range as an actress.

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Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


muscles like this! posted:

I don't know why they didn't just introduce a new character since absolutely nothing is added by her being Ivy Pepper. Like maybe they could have actually had Pamela Isley?

The original plan was to have her get adopted by the Isley family, who'd force her to change her first name and generally be all kinds of lovely to her. Didn't end up happening though, for a variety of reasons.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


TheGamerGuy23 posted:

I thought it was kinda amusing at first, but the whole "Nobody dies" thing is starting to get annoying at this point. Why should I care if any character is put in a deadly situation? Chances are if they die they'll somehow come back to life anyway so it doesn't even matter.

I don't think this is the kind of show with those sorts of stakes. I doubt you're meant to be worried for the Riddler dying anymore than you're meant to find him scary.

The deaths always generate some sort of permanent character change anyway. I don't think anyone's come back from the dead unscathed.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Barbara's awesome. I'm totally down for a League Of Shadows version (she's working with Ra's, right?)

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


TheGamerGuy23 posted:

I'm not 100% on Batman canon, especially with minor characters like that, but do you really expect Gordon to ever marry her after all the poo poo she's pulled? And I guess, for me, it's more just another instance of bringing a character from the dead when it really isn't needed. Barbara in particular had long overstayed her welcome, which is a problem the show seems to have throughout.

I could have totally seen them banging last season, given Gordon's level of crazy, therefore giving us a whole season of a super pregnant super crazy mob boss. Probably not happening this season though.

Edit: Also, the production crew loves Erin Richards. She's not going anywhere.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


muscles like this! posted:

So there's been some new recasting with Charlie Tahan (Scarecrow) having to leave the show as he couldn't balance filming between Gotham and Ozark. He's being replaced by David W Thompson but they haven't said if they're making him a new character or if he'll be Jonathan Crane.

And in more annoying news, the show won't return until March.

Apparently the recast is because they're really set on doing Long Halloween this year. Scarecrow, the Joker, the Hatter, Selina, Ivy and a bunch of other villains are doing a big team up over the course of the rest of this season. That's on top of a separate R'as storyline, apparently.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


This kind of speculation is fun and all, but isn't the series set prior to Superman's arrival in Metropolis? He'd still be under the radar in Smallville.

It'd be the equivalent of Gotham -- the show -- if Bruce Wayne wasn't there full stop.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


I love love love how this show has fully leaned into "being a villain ='s being queer as gently caress". I mean, there was Penguin and Fish and Barbara, but now Ivy had that confrontation with Selina where they were inches from kissing, and Ed's apotheosis is basically a coming out story. Pretty much all their major villain heroes are queer now (plus a handful of their guest villains, like Hugo Strange). It's loving beautiful.

I think, between this and Hannibal, you could write a decent essay about the taking back of the villainous queer archetype.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Fish was bi. She seduced that singer and sent her to gently caress with Don Falcone back in season 1.

Hugo Strange was screamingly fey. Sure. he never gets it on with anyone, but you don't have to be in order to be gay. Hugo's a classic sissy villain, none of whom hosed or sucked either.

Ivy seduces both men and women (though not for sex, shes not a rapist), but the subtext here is that the only person she cares about is Selina. Not that I enjoy appealing to canon, but when both women are queer in the comics it's hard not to see the result here as suggestive.

Riddler's queer. Even if we ignore his super earnest love riddle from last season -- though that should be conclusive enough -- you've got his recent arc here. The Riddler's need for Penguin to acknowledge him as an equal and a "true friend" (classic Penguin double speak for crush/boyfriend, used since early season 1) reads to me as sublimated sexual desire, which is only compounded by his need to erase his love for Lee Thompkins from his life. Killing her will finally erase the last spectre of heterosexuality from his life -- his apotheosis as the Riddler is a twisted kind of coming out.

That said, Penguin's not gay. He's queer as well -- he had a thing for Sophia Falcone.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


I'm not convinced either, I'm sorry. Subtext and classic archetypal characters have a strong legacy amongst on screen representations of queerness -- it's the love that dares not speak it's name, after all -- and while same sex attraction has certainly made a great deal of strides in terms of what we're allowed to show on screen, I don''t think that legacy has been completely shaken off. (Nor should it be completely abandoned, it's part of a rich tapestry of cinematic queerness).

I think it remains to be seen as to whether I'm right, but I know I've been right about this before. I guess we'll see. ::

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Did they ever explain why he has it out for mixed race couples?

It's my favourite bizarre joke on the show -- because it's completely inexplicable, before anyone jumps on me.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Conclusions posted:

Or something will happen which will fake out the audience, such as you see both Jerome and Jeremiah fall into the ocean but only one emerges. We never know which ones really survives, the show never tells us, and the Joker's backstory is now up for debate.

It'll be this, but a vat of chemicals.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


twistedmentat posted:

Gotham is a lot like Legends of Tomorrow, when the show was serious, it was utter crap, but once they embraced the camp and sillyness of it, it became way more enjoyable.

So, from episode two.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Rhyno posted:

Hasn't the season wrapped already?

Yeah, and she shaved it after.

Robin Lord Taylor is still dying his hair, so it's not like there's any real indication as to whether the show is cancelled or not.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Rhyno posted:

I thought maybe he was implying it was a spoiler for upcoming plots.

Oh yeah, you're right. Hahah, whoops. My bad.

I guess I'm kinda worried about the show being cancelled these days. Everything I'm watching and really loving -- Legion, The Expanse, Gotham, The Mick -- are bubble shows.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Mr Hootington posted:

It will get a season 5 to hit the magic 100 mark.

The bonus comes at 88 these days. 100 episodes is better, and certainly making sure the show has a definite ending helps the show's sellability, so it's got that going for it. But on the other hand, the show is expensive, it has low ratings, and it's unowned by the channel, which puts it in a strange sort of limbo heading into the upcoming ABC acquisition.

I absolutely think that if the show gets renewed, it'll be to get to that precious 100 episode mark. Hell, it might even find a new life on the DC original streaming service that they're trying to launch. (Which, given that it currently only has two planned shows, might be a smart call). But the content market isn't as robust as it once was, despite there being more shows than ever. I guess we'll see.

Rhyno posted:

At least 12 Monkeys and the Magicians got wrap up seasons!

Haha you made me worried for a second. The Magicians hasn't been handed a final season, just renewed. My read on that one is that the show's popular enough that it'll get a fifth season, but I think that'll be it.

But also, yes, I'm glad we're getting more of both. And Killjoys! (Which I think I remember you being cold on, but I've always liked it.)

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Rhyno posted:

I think I read that Magicians just barely squeaked season 4 so they're possibly planning it as wrap up in case. A drat shame about the Expanse though.

I really hope we hear something about Gotham season 5 soon, we need to live the glory of No Man's Land. And they still have to introduce the mustache.

The Magicians is the second best rated show on [[the channel, by a considerable margin. (https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/...-updated-33879/)

:: about No Man's Land. I'm really excited to see the city divided up between the various factions. You know they're going to have entire themed factions and cool sets to match as well -- Lee leading a proletariat faction, a bunch of Riddlettes in green Vegas outfits, a Penguin crew in pinstripes. I'm so there for that nonsense.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


muscles like this! posted:

Kind of easy to forget about that character because she just kind of vanished from the story from her first appearance until now.

I get why you'd forget, but in their defence that was only three episodes ago.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Yeah, this is just good news as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, I'm worried that they'll also end up shucking some cast members, but I imagine that if they do it'll be Sophia, Rás and Lucius Fox. AKA none of the best characters.

Fingers crossed for a fourth Ivy and a third Kringle.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


TheLoneStar posted:

I'm more nervous that this whole big "Everything is going crazy!" poo poo will wind up like when the inmates of Indian Hill escaped, where about 90% of it was resolved between seasons.

They've been pretty candid in interviews about it being the blueprint for the entirety of next season.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


muscles like this! posted:

In hindsight it is pretty bizarre that they went through all that effort with recasting Poison Ivy again just for a couple of episodes.

I figured they were just doing what they did with Jerome last year. A three episode guest arc to keep her in play before having her come back in another arc next year.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Guys. Guys guys guys guys guys.

The second "joker", Jeremiah, who's so very much more into planning and being methodical and thinking things through...

He's a Practical Joker.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Dr Christmas posted:

One of the things that holds true across most iconic versions of the Joker is that he is a reaction to Batman, and not Bruce Wayne, and his madness and disfigurement is usually directly Batman's fault, the Heath Ledger version being a notable exception. Jerome and Jeremiah are both already mass murderers, leaders of a cultish gang, show a greater interest in proving some point than money or power, and have clown-like facial disfigurements, so what separates them from the Joker who menaces Gotham in the future?

Nothing, but I don't know if that's relevant to what the show's doing. Gotham's not really a prequel to anything specific; it only has to do right by itself, narratively speaking.

It's hard to imagine Jim and Barbara being an item again, for instance. Don't see Jim hooking up with Sarah Essen either. Canon isn't really a thing this show is wedded to. Who's to say there'll even be a Joker in the future?

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Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Im Ready for DEATH posted:

is anyone else just squeeing over the ed/lee romance

Nygmobblepot 4 lyfe.

Actually.

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