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Just straight ignore the question, maybe make a joke about how she can make fuzzy stand down must be a gift haha, start asking Tek what exactly he does for his money and what he thinks he's willing to to do for his "job" because most likely there will be a line he won't cross yet and he won't get the chance to decide it'll be either do it or die and he'll be trapped. How bad would it be if we just straight said to Tec she used her ability,inferring magic but actually telling the truth. Toughy fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 17:25
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Toughy posted:Just straight ignore the question Instead tell him just enough truth to satisfy his curiosity without giving anything away. Surely he knows that we attend fancy school full of corp princesses? We can just tell him that we met her in school. If he persist, I guess we'll say something along the lines of uh, Ares I guess. Given where it was bought I'm pretty sure most of our possessions have an Area logo somewhere anyway, and also Fuzzy sucks at lying. Avoid revealing that she's from Knight Errant. Just say Oh, we met at school. You know, the fancy school full of corp princesses. Apparently there's at least one nice one, who knew, am I right eh?
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Jan 19, 2018 19:40
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Toughy posted:Just straight ignore the question . . . This. Tell Oli to go for a walk, sit Dave and Tek down, turn the TV off, and let them know this isn't a social call. "Dave, you asked me to look in on your kid, and we'll get to Oli later. Tek needs immediate attention now. Tek, you tell him or I will. I know the life, I know the appeal, you're treating this like a GD game with your sneaking around and your 'code word'. On your current track, you'll either end up in jail or dead. This is me helping, and we're going to work it out. Right now."
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Jan 19, 2018 19:56
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CourValant posted:"Dave, you asked me to look in on your kid, and we'll get to Oli later. Tek needs immediate attention now. We don't know the life, we don't know the appeal, we've in fact made a conscious effort to avoid it. He's treating it like someone who understands basic discretion while discussing criminal enterprises, not a game. This is not helping, this is tearing his family and his life to shreds. Tek is joining the gang because he wants to belong somewhere, and help provide for his family. An intervention isn't gonna change any of that, just drive him away. Now, the thing about him probably ending up dead or in jail is true, but it's the kind of thing we have to talk to Tek about in private. Maybe the Touristville community police are a good alternative path? We could probably swing a favor with them. Don't tell Dave poo poo, I thought it was a bad enough idea when it was painted as finding Dave alone and talking to him, but with Tek literally in the same room lol no way. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 20:02
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Crazycryodude posted:We don't know the life, we don't know the appeal, we've in fact made a conscious effort to avoid it. He's treating it like someone who understands basic OPSEC while discussing criminal enterprises, not a game. This is not helping, this is tearing his family and his life to shreds. Tek is joining the gang because he wants to belong somewhere, and help provide for his family. An intervention isn't gonna change any of that, just drive him away. I like the idea of getting him an apprenticeship in touristville somewhere, but Tek is a wanna be ganger, he can take straight talk without the kid gloves, if he can't he never would have made it into the gang, tough straight real talk about what Fuzzy has seen about that life in pullyup where it's even worse could be eye opening. Dave has to suspect Tecs getting the money somewhere, he'll appreciate it. Not telling Dave is irresponsible, we can do two one on one convos or we can get through it all at once, I honestly don't think it'll be much difference in result.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:17
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Crazycryodude posted:We don't know the life, we don't know the appeal, we've in fact made a conscious effort to avoid it. He's treating it like someone who understands basic discretion while discussing criminal enterprises, not a game. This is not helping, this is tearing his family and his life to shreds. Tek is joining the gang because he wants to belong somewhere, and help provide for his family. An intervention isn't gonna change any of that, just drive him away. Yeah I have to agree with everything said here. This is going to require a level of finesse and tact I'm really not sure we have right now so we need to be super careful or this whole mess is going to implode like a collapsing star.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:56
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Hexenritter posted:Yeah I have to agree with everything said here. This is going to require a level of finesse and tact I'm really not sure we have right now so we need to be super careful or this whole mess is going to implode like a collapsing star. I don't understand why there's a need for tact here, lay it all out there, hell bring up vids of gang violence, their victims, Tek wants to be a thug that jumps a florist for some extra cash really? I know it's not the same gang but there's going to be a victim that's not someone you hate it might even be someone you care about or someone you care about cares about, there's no winning here unless you want to become a heartless bastard.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:36
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Toughy posted:I don't understand why there's a need for tact here, lay it all out there, hell bring up vids of gang violence, their victims, Tek wants to be a thug that jumps a florist for some extra cash really? I know it's not the same gang but there's going to be a victim that's not someone you hate it might even be someone you care about or someone you care about cares about, there's no winning here unless you want to become a heartless bastard. Tact avoids kneejerk reactions and avoids the feeling that he's being preached at but hey I'm willing to watch the trainwreck either way
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Jan 19, 2018 22:17
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Hexenritter posted:Tact avoids kneejerk reactions and avoids the feeling that he's being preached at but hey I'm willing to watch the trainwreck either way Either approach is preaching, kids glove or no, it's hey I think you're making a mistake, here's why, he's that weird age where he's going to respond strongly one way or the other. You start talking to him like he's the immature kid he is and leave the decision at the end that it's going to be his first adult decision, hope you make the right one. I'm all for appealing to his sense of family, and show him other ways to help the family legally, that he can be proud of. The whole it takes a stronger person to not take advantage then to take advantage of the weak angle, run the whole Gambit, hard rear end to big sister just looking out for you. Im more worried about if he rejects our guidance and want to be a gangster anyway what's the point of the meeting? Are we going to just show up to leave? Or just send Tek to say that we're not interested?
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Jan 19, 2018 22:51
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Groetgaffel posted:Just say Oh, we met at school. You know, the fancy school full of corp princesses. Apparently there's at least one nice one, who knew, am I right eh?
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Jan 19, 2018 22:57
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Toughy posted:Im more worried about if he rejects our guidance and want to be a gangster anyway what's the point of the meeting? Are we going to just show up to leave? Or just send Tek to say that we're not interested? Show him the consequences of being a ganger and let him decide for himself. There's only so much you can do to help, and if he's willing to do the morally questionable poo poo (like killing people) then there's not much you can do.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:36
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Ugh gently caress. Of course he's doing it to help his dad. drat. Okay, no real changes here, we need an alternative income to offer to Tek, something that isn't Ares either. Julie just offered a job to one of Dave's kids, what about the other? What's he gonna do for her? I dunno, but she doesn't know what Oli's gonna do either so there ya go. What, no, I'm not surreptitiously trying to get Tek and Julie to meet up and hit it off or anything. I mean, sure, the scene with Tek and Dave watching baseball reminded me of Julie's little girl memories, but why would I even think about making Julie be like Oli's big sister in more ways than one? Marco is totally gonna be around forever anyway, so you can all relax.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:41
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RickVoid posted:What, no, I'm not surreptitiously trying to get Tek and Julie to meet up and hit it off or anything. I mean, sure, the scene with Tek and Dave watching baseball reminded me of Julie's little girl memories, but why would I even think about making Julie be like Oli's big sister in more ways than one? Marco is totally gonna be around forever anyway, so you can all relax. You, Sir, are a GD Genius. 
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Jan 20, 2018 01:43
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RickVoid posted:Ugh gently caress. Of course he's doing it to help his dad. drat. I like the idea, it crossed my mind as well, but would a brother and sister working together be manageable? Also absolutely got the baseball family feel like Julie's.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:50
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RickVoid posted:Ugh gently caress. Of course he's doing it to help his dad. drat. Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:53
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We could always try to get Tek hooked up with the Touristville cops
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Jan 20, 2018 02:10
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Yeah the more I think about that the better of an idea it seems like. I'm sure we've got enough pull to get Tek a job with the cops down here (or at least, we do right now, when it becomes public that we literally work for Ares we won't anymore), and it's a way for him to 1) belong to a community and 2) help keep the lights on without committing felonies.
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Jan 20, 2018 02:21
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah the more I think about that the better of an idea it seems like. I'm sure we've got enough pull to get Tek a job with the cops down here (or at least, we do right now, when it becomes public that we literally work for Ares we won't anymore), and it's a way for him to 1) belong to a community and 2) help keep the lights on without committing felonies. I don't know, teenager trying to join a gang to put food on the table is going to be a depressingly common story for Touristville, so I'm not sure that they'll have an opening for Tek. I mean it's worth a try, but will be pretty difficult to arrange in the time we have. I'm not sure how much of the gang's activities Tek will have seen during the year as a prospect, because if he already knows what he's getting into and still wants to go forward with it, we might just have to let him go forward with it. The one thing that might work is maybe an appeal to his mortality, because chances are good that if he joins the gang Dave and Oli will have to bury whatever is left of him.
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Jan 20, 2018 03:04
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Let's not try to decide Tek's future without first talking to him about why he's joining the gang, and what he expects his future to be like.
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Jan 20, 2018 03:23
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Groetgaffel posted:Let's not try to decide Tek's future without first talking to him about why he's joining the gang, and what he expects his future to be like. But we're those meddling kids
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Jan 20, 2018 03:50
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We're going about this in completely the wrong way. We just need to introduce Tek to a girl named Maria. That and he needs a song and dance coach.
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Jan 20, 2018 03:51
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MinutePirateBug posted:We're going about this in completely the wrong way. We just need to introduce Tek to a girl named Julie. That and he needs a song and dance coach. I like this plan.
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Jan 20, 2018 04:54
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MinutePirateBug posted:We're going about this in completely the wrong way. We just need to introduce Tek to a girl named Maria. That and he needs a song and dance coach. This reminds of something... something with snapping and very coordinated gangs.
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Jan 20, 2018 05:49
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Deadmeat5150 posted:This reminds of something... something with snapping and very coordinated gangs. . . . why I oughta . . .
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Jan 20, 2018 06:43
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So I'm trying to parse out an answer from the many, many responses. There doesn't seem to be a consensus beyond finger snapping. Oh, and eventually introducing him to Julie, but there's not really enough time for that at present. Fuzzy wouldn't be able to offer him a job with Julie at present either. She doesn't know that Oli just got offered a job and Fuzzy would probably have to talk to Julie to try. Trying to link Tek up with the Touristville police may work. It would be a hard sell as the amount of money, freedom, prestige and biker chicks would be lower. Also, neither are strictly legal. As an aside, the Touristville cops don't have the money to incorporate and register with Knight-Errant (which costs a lot of money) to become a private police force which would require them to start enforcing laws which would either unravel Touristville's fragile social fabric or get their license revoked when they didn't enforce the law enough. Tek's story is pretty nuanced and grey. Oli's was far easier. In the end, Tek and Oli are looking for much the same things: Purpose, validation, structure and attention. Oli hasn't found it, but Tek found it in the wrong place. Ironically, Julie was probably the better person to hand Tek off to. But Tek is pretty interesting. Anyway, I'm going to hold a shorter vote since it's hard to parse out what everyone wants with more defined goals. Apologies, it's just hard to figure out what everyone wants. So I'm going to write not what I think is going to happen, but what Fuzzy thinks would happen. 1. Fuzzy applies pressure from the family side. This either means talking to Dave alone or talking to Tek and Dave at the same time. Fuzzy thinks that this is actually the most likely to succeed right now. Tek cares deeply about his family and using his family against him will probably work. However, Fuzzy won't have any say over the fallout. About how Tek does in the aftermath if he leaves the gang. She may be able to get Julie to help. Maybe. But Tek does know Julie's connection with Fuzzy and may not trust her to help him. 2. Fuzzy applies pressure to Tek, personally. She has four hours to talk to him. More if she skips the meetup. Even more if she doesn't get to Blake Island on time. Fuzzy has had horrible experiences with gangs. She can either relate this to him more gently by asking him about the darker side of gang life and her concerns. Is he really prepared to kill or be killed? The Deadeyes, they're a gang. How do they make their money? Is it drugs? That's poison. Weapons? Those get used on people. Someday his family is going to find out. His dad was nearly murdered by gangers. Does he really want to be that? Maybe Fuzzy can help him. She's well liked around Touristville, and maybe she can get him some help for him to land on his feet. And so on. Or just lay into him with some hosed up stories and browbeat him with the heinous poo poo she's seen. The scared straight approach, but without the bullshit. Straight from the nightmare pile. Etiquette or intimidate, and you can probably figure out which has the better outcome even though Fuzzy is far better at intimidate. Fuzzy will still damage her relationship with Tek, but he may still listen to her. 3. Fuzzy applies pressure from the gang side. This means negotiating with the head of the chapter (the gang leader for Tacoma). Not today, but probably next week when Fuzzy and company can cobble together a plan. In the meantime, Fuzzy will have to figure out what the gang wants and how to negotiate with them. Options one and two end this path now. Roll and done, and we wait for the fallout as Tek makes up his mind. We can influence the aftermath depending on which option we choose, but Tek has agency and will have plenty of time when Fuzzy isn't around. Option three continues on the negotiation path which I will leave ambiguous as Fuzzy knows nothing about negotiating with gangs. Sorry for the second vote. There were just so many different opinions that I had a problem parsing them. On another note, we've reached the halfway point for the story. Maybe a little further. Not sure yet. The current wordcount is 46,462. I'm aiming for about 80k words, but I may run over. Julie's story is longer, but I don't really feel bound by having each chapter longer than the last like novelists have done for years. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 14:48
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I kind of like a mix of 2 and 3, honestly. Get Tek on board with Etiquette, then go through the proper gang channels to get him out with minimal strings. Just bailing would have some very bad consequences when the Dead Eyes make an example of him. This is a 1%er gang, not a street gang, so there's rules to be followed. Only organizations like the Mafia or Yakuza have a more comprehensive set of codes and standards to be followed.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:57
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I feel like 1. makes the most sense for a lot of reasons. Specifically talking to Tek and Dave together, getting Tek to engage with his dad over what he's actually doing. Tek seems to be thinking about his family first and foremost, and though he's obviously enjoying a sense of belonging and prestige from being associated with the gang, I get the impression that it's secondary to just having a good source of income. He seems to enjoy his family life, this isn't a case of him being a rebellious kid who wants to leave his family behind for a different social group. He just wants to pay back the ones he cares about. He almost certainly hasn't thought about the long term implications of his new 'job', i.e. at best having to do nasty criminal poo poo, at worst an early death in a stupid gang war. So making him realise that his family values him more as an honest individual more than the material benefits he can get in the short term from joining the Deadeyes would seem likely to result in hm having a change of heart. I mean, if Dave wasn't so obviously a down to earth, hardworking, honest kind of guy I wouldn't necessarily think that this is the best route, but he's exactly the sort of person who would be horrified of the idea of his son falling in with a gang. The long term solution for this is giving Tek a clear alternate view of where he can take his life, we're not in a position where we can just pull a job out of the aether for him so this is more going to be about Dave and Fuzzy convincing Tek that he's not totally out of options. And if he's still having a hard time making a decision Fuzzy can always pull some 'scared straight nightmare fuel' out at the last minute just to make a point about what kind of life he's setting himself up for. The negotiation option seems extremely risky and also kind of unhelpful if Tek isn't actually on board with what we're doing so I don't really think it's a great idea, except as a follow up to one of the other options first, but the way they're laid out here suggests that isn't on the table. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 16:01
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2. Make sure he knows what he's getting into. If he's still dead set on joining up, maybe let him? I mean, we just made our corp princess girlfriend apologise to some random waitress for not giving her the option to say no. Free will is obviously important to Fuzzy. Given our history with beating up gangers, we can ask Tek of he's ready to be on the receiving end of our nogway. 
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Jan 20, 2018 16:49
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Hm, not sure what the best play is here, but I'd propose we go 2 -> 1 -> 2 The idea would be to try to convince him using etiquette first, if that fails have him explain to his dad why it's a good idea and if that doesn't work try to intimidate, though that would run the risk of scaring Dave in addition to Tek. Im open to other suggestions though.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:52
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I’m feeling 1 -> 3 -> 1. Screw it if it messes up family life, Fuzzy knows how important it is to keep the pack together. Daves family needs to know whats up. And we can’t just meddle and leave Tek out to dry. If he changes his mind and wants out we need to help negotiate that.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:59
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2 while playing nice and if it doesn't work then rope Dave into the mess.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:53
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I don't think the gang will let Tek go free without any strings attached in any way, now that he got money from them, and they will probably want their money back and will probably make Tek (or his family) pay for it, one way or another. Keep in mind that people in gangs (and in corps too) are resources that they invested on, and since gangs are probably more sensitive to bad investments than your corp, they are a lot more personal, shall we say. That said, I think if there's one person (besides Tek himself) that will really be able to change his mind will be Tek's parents (Tek is doing this for his family first and foremost, after all), but I'm not sure how to stage an intervention at this point. I still think Fuzzy should lay him down with some truths before trying to set that up, though. So I vote for (2 -> 1)
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Jan 20, 2018 19:23
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HardDiskD posted:I don't think the gang will let Tek go free without any strings attached in any way, now that he got money from them, and they will probably want their money back and will probably make Tek (or his family) pay for it, one way or another. Keep in mind that people in gangs (and in corps too) are resources that they invested on, and since gangs are probably more sensitive to bad investments than your corp, they are a lot more personal, shall we say. And as far as I'm aware, we haven't made a specific promise to get Tek out of the gang. I can definitely see Fuzzy changing her mind under the right circumstances.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:57
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RabidWeasel posted:I feel like 1. makes the most sense for a lot of reasons. Specifically talking to Tek and Dave together, getting Tek to engage with his dad over what he's actually doing. I agree with this. I also think it's weird that we haven't told Dave anything yet. Fuzzy is just a babysitter.
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Jan 20, 2018 20:12
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Chatrapati posted:I agree with this. Exactly this. We have no right to withhold information about Tek from Dave. At the end of the day, this is their Family business; Dave asked us to check in on his kids, and this is what we saw. Dave probably suspects something, otherwise he wouldn't have asked us in the first place; its not like Dad can go to a concert with his kids to see just what kind of shady dealings they're involved in. Option 1, then if Tek wants out and doesn't know how, Option 2, and if that goes sideways, then Ares Ex Machina.
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Jan 20, 2018 20:36
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RabidWeasel posted:I feel like 1. makes the most sense for a lot of reasons. Specifically talking to Tek and Dave together, getting Tek to engage with his dad over what he's actually doing. Agreed
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Jan 20, 2018 20:48
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Because I didn't explicitly mention it, but if we convince Tek to leave the gang, that obviously should be followed up by negotiating with them over him, unilaterally leaving the gang would be Bad.
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Jan 20, 2018 23:42
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All right. This makes it much easier on me. I'm glad that I didn't have to call for a revote until now for about the entirety of the thread. Normally I'd paint this internally as Fuzzy's confusion, but there were some solid arguments in there so I didn't feel 100% comfortable doing that. I'm considering taking a look at classes come Monday. Specifically Fuzzy's and Kenji's since half the book has been crammed into the space of two days. Just what normal classes would look like, or maybe when the teacher decides to do something fun since half the class didn't show up due to spring break and school on a Monday. I'm posting this to remind myself of Dunbar's number. Nothing spoilery. Also what happens to people who try to leave 1%er MC's. The answer was mixed, neither all good nor all bad. However, what I saw almost 100% was that Tek would lose his motorcycle. Bikers sign it over to the club as a sign of good faith that they're going to stay in. Going to call the vote early so I can get going on writing. Sorry about that. I'm restless. Voting is as follows: 1. Rabidweasel, Just-Making-Chili, Chatrapati, CourValant, Toughy 2. Jagadaishio, Groetgaffel, Sheep-Dodger, Cryo, HardDiskD, Don't be mean to me. 3. No one. Talk to Tek and see if he'll change on his own. If not Fuzzy goes for the nuclear option. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 23:47
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sheep-dodger posted:Hm, not sure what the best play is here, but I'd propose we go 2 -> 1 -> 2 I like 2 -> 1 -> 2.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:50
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Who are we to tell him not to join a gang? Shadowrun is a hosed up place. Violence is cheap and plentiful. Any security is bought with it.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:52
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