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The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up





Beachcomber posted:

Same place the whales are.


I don't remember where I read it, but it was about the Star Wars prequel trilogy compared to the Force Awakens. George Lucas tried to do something different with them and the market responded that no, in fact Star Wars was about X-Wings, and smugglers, and definitely not politics.

In the same way, I think Star Trek might be locked in now.

I really, really don't think the fanbase's problem with the prequel trilogy was "too much politics"

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Autism Sneaks
Nov 21, 2016


Timby posted:

Only the first episode is on broadcast tv. The second half of the pilot is on All Access.

On the plus side there will be a fast turnaround for

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


The Bloop posted:

I really, really don't think the fanbase's problem with the prequel trilogy was "too much politics"

"nobody wants to hear about the taxation of outlying trade routes and votes of no confidence" is definitely a complaint that people have seriously made about the SW prequels. Mind you people, sometimes the same people, have also criticized them for being too juvenile and silly.

Lord Krangdar
Oct 23, 2007

These are the secrets of death we teach.


So is the Discovery still bronze, or did they get rid of that? Hard to tell in the newer promos.

The Bloop posted:

I really, really don't think the fanbase's problem with the prequel trilogy was "too much politics"

People constantly mock it for being about space politics and trade disputes.

Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Lord Krangdar posted:

So is the Discovery still bronze, or did they get rid of that? Hard to tell in the newer promos.

It's the first black female starship.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up





Lord Krangdar posted:


People constantly mock it for being about space politics and trade disputes.

I guess I travel in different circles because I see the execution being mocked, not the very idea of including politics. Not for the most part anyway.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.

Good OP. I didn't think about the prospect of her being raised Vulcan. I think that could allow for some Trek-style allegory, because people won't get a bug up their assholes if she's critiquing Vulcan society. Or maybe they will, who knows.

skasion posted:

"nobody wants to hear about the taxation of outlying trade routes and votes of no confidence" is definitely a complaint that people have seriously made about the SW prequels. Mind you people, sometimes the same people, have also criticized them for being too juvenile and silly.
I don't get why people say it's about smugglers. There is one smuggler character. He is important and cool of course, but it's like millions of nerds are desperately all trying to huff a charming dude's beer farts from when he was playing a role he kind of hated.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

Animal-Mother posted:

It's the first black female starship.

And also the Enterprise's adopted sister ship that's never been mentioned before.

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.




Nessus posted:

Good OP. I didn't think about the prospect of her being raised Vulcan. I think that could allow for some Trek-style allegory, because people won't get a bug up their assholes if she's critiquing Vulcan society. Or maybe they will, who knows.
I don't get why people say it's about smugglers. There is one smuggler character. He is important and cool of course, but it's like millions of nerds are desperately all trying to huff a charming dude's beer farts from when he was playing a role he kind of hated.

I didn't get the quote right because I can't remember where I read it.

504
Feb 2, 2016


Drink-Mix Man posted:

Each series has built a vast universe— indeed as vast as the universe itself— with infinite storytelling potential. Each one tried to tap into this potential and do something slightly out of the box in the 90's/2000's (DS9 for Trek, the prequels for Wars), with debatable results. Studios subsequently have decided that in order for each franchise to be successful, all future stories must revolve around a core set of familiar old elements.

In Wars' case, X-Wings, Tie Fighters, lightstabers, and constant Darth Vader shoehorns. In Trek, Starfleet ships, phasers, transporters, Vulcans, Klingons, and Kirk/Spock. (And my guess would be TNG characters again once they tap that out.)

The result is that despite having a whole galaxy and more as your storytelling playground, you end up with a repetitive, small, and stale storytelling world.

Well.. yeah..


I don't want a star trek/wars that isn't about the stuff that made me like it. If You're gonna do that, just rename it and sell it as a new product.

vermin
Feb 28, 2017

Help, I've turned into a manifestation of mental disorders as viewed through an early 20th century lens sparked by the disparity between man and modern society and I can't get up

Wait, is this the regular Star Trek thread now or is it the Mirror Universe Trek thread?

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011

This is a front row seat to the greatest show on earth.

vermin posted:

Wait, is this the regular Star Trek thread now or is it the Mirror Universe Trek thread?

I think everyone's just warming up before the Disco ball.

Regarde Aduck
Oct 18, 2012

Sweet baby


504 posted:

Well.. yeah..


I don't want a star trek/wars that isn't about the stuff that made me like it. If You're gonna do that, just rename it and sell it as a new product.

You can like a show and admit its flaws. Star trek had some amazing sci fi plots and good characters on one side. On the other it had inconsistent writing quality.

Some extremely insipid character interactions.

Terrible music (Think about the music from Battlestar Galactica. Now think of the Trek series music. What the gently caress?).

Until the later seasons of DS9 trek also had a problem with "epic". The closest we got was the borg destroying 39 ships (which was somehow a huge fleet by present federation standards) and some weird useless drone things that were the entirety of the earth defense system.

A terrible decision to have the DS9 crew go back in time to a TOS era setting which resulted in every smooth brained autistic trekkie to now consider the 60's era bakelite and cardboard sets to be "canon". Oh and this weird period between Enterprise and the original movie era when starfleet decided to make all their ships look really shoddy and like someone from ancient earth making a model out of very cheap materials. They went back in time and it all looked the same!!!!!! It's canon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lack of threat. The ships basically fly themselves and a maneuver consists of pressing the right buttons. gently caress knows what happens if the helm console has a fault. I guess they just crash into a space iceberg. Nothing can catch fire because a force field can be put around the fire no matter where it is. Hull breaches get sealed immediately. By TNG "engine rooms" now look like living areas complete with carpets. Being the chief engineer of a starship now consists of standing around a small inlaid console and making sure the blue lights are moving. There are no pipes or valves because this is the future. Even Klingon ships are above such petty conceits as "pipes".

A weird dismissive view of actual present day science. This is a big one. It's why shows like Big Bang theory are so annoying. Someone like Sheldon would hate Trek. Why? Because the "science" of trek is so dumb as to be antiscience. Real world concepts are ignored or put down in favour of making nonsense particles up or misusing them like "baryon sweeps" (hint: the entire ship is made of baryons). Physical laws like the uncertainty principle is tech'd away with "Heisenberg compensators". Even the warp drive manages to gently caress up. It's almost like the real world concept of space warping as a method of FTL travel but then they introduce a load of subspace bullshit. And real world technological advances such as nanotechology are nowhere to be seen. In fact the federation is taken by surprise by the borgs mastery of this seemingly unknown technology path. Only by late TNG, the TNG films and Voyager does "nanite" become a buzzword.

Don't be a trekkie. A trekkie is someone who wants good stories wasted in a milquetoast setting and has a penchant for paedophilia.

If you really like Trek then wish for it to evolve.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


LOL did you really just say "TOS Sux and everyone who likes it is a pedo?"

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Turns out you can't actually predict the future when making a fake TV show and it sometimes becomes dated as new science is discovered.

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.




Also Enterprise didn't exist when DS9 did.

A happier time.

Ohtsam
Feb 5, 2010

Not this shit again.


Lipstick Apathy

Even if the show is good I doubt it will drive enough all access traffic to get a second season.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Didn't they already make enough money selling the rights on netflix to pay for 2 seasons?

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Who?
Oh! I traded him.


Ohtsam posted:

Even if the show is good I doubt it will drive enough all access traffic to get a second season.

The first season has effectively been paid for through the Netflix deal.

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.


Source your quotes.

bob faggot
Sep 6, 2017


Is this going to be a good place to start from? I haven't watched any Star Trek before.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

I'll fight... I will!


bob enjoyable human being posted:

Is this going to be a good place to start from? I haven't watched any Star Trek before.

Next Generation. Skip the entirety of season one (yes even the pilot), most of season two (google for a watch list) then stop skipping in season three. It was made for syndication so you won't be missing any continuity.

e: I thought this was the megathread. Just watch Discovery but ditch it if it sucks and don't assume all Star Trek sucks because of it.

cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2017 around 22:31

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

We must finally understand
that of all the precious
capital in the world,
the most precious capital,
the most decisive capital,
is loveliness.
I'm lovely.
Hug me.
I'M LOVELY


Astroman posted:

LOL did you really just say "TOS Sux and everyone who likes it is a pedo?"

No, he really didn't.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


bob enjoyable human being posted:

Is this going to be a good place to start from? I haven't watched any Star Trek before.

Who knows. It is a prequel so probably assumes you know what Vulcans, Klingons, warp drive etc are, but doesn't seem to have any real connection to the plots of the older shows so yeah, might as well start here I guess.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




cheetah7071 posted:

Next Generation. Skip the entirety of season one (yes even the pilot), most of season two (google for a watch list) then stop skipping in season three. It was made for syndication so you won't be missing any continuity.

e: I thought this was the megathread. Just watch Discovery but ditch it if it sucks and don't assume all Star Trek sucks because of it.

Don't skip season 1, there are still some good episodes in there.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

I'll fight... I will!


Cojawfee posted:

Don't skip season 1, there are still some good episodes in there.

which ones are you talking about exactly

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


cheetah7071 posted:

which ones are you talking about exactly

Heart of Glory is good
Hide and Q, Arsenal of Freedom are cheesy fun
Conspiracy just because
Where No One Has Gone Before and Datalore are both important for arcs down the line

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




cheetah7071 posted:

which ones are you talking about exactly

The Big Goodbye
Datalore
Arsenal of Freedom
We'll Always Have Paris

Those are some that I remember liking after briefily scanning the memory alpha articles of season 1 episodes. They aren't peak TNG, but they are still pretty good. There are probably a few others that I haven't included. There are only a few really bad episodes in the first season.

Firebert
Aug 16, 2004


11001001 is a very good early TNG episode and there's a good callback to it in season 4 or 5

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Firebert posted:

11001001 is a very good early TNG episode and there's a good callback to it in season 4 or 5

Oh yeah good call. I was trying to think if the one with Minuet was in S1 or 2, but then I couldn't remember the name.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

PARTY ON, GARTH OF IZAR


I really hope this show is good but every new commercial I'm seeing for it on Space here in Canada is making it seem like more of a joke than before

MY SPECIES WAS MADE TO SENSE DEAAAATH

hahah get the gently caress outta here really man

A GIANT PARSNIP
Apr 13, 2010

Manakish is popular in most Levantine countries, as well as in many cities throughout the world where people of Levantine origin have settled.


I like the part at 0:56 where she walks into a giant room filled with weed.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010



skasion posted:

"nobody wants to hear about the taxation of outlying trade routes and votes of no confidence" is definitely a complaint that people have seriously made about the SW prequels. Mind you people, sometimes the same people, have also criticized them for being too juvenile and silly.

I'm pretty sure the thing that some people (and I assume you're referring to RLM here) don't like about the dumb political stuff in the prequels is the fact that episode 1 just kind of cold opens with space taxes and doesn't really bother to explain itself, or even introduce anything resembling a protagonist, until maybe half way through the movie. Even then none of the characters are really very sympathetic or well characterized, so the entire thing just ends up being a giant puddle of who cares. RLM's criticism that the movie is too juvenile and silly is also in line with the space taxes and poor characterization thing, because the film bounces between cardboard cutouts discussing space taxes and jar jar binks stepping in poop and making funny noises.

DrNutt
Apr 12, 2007

Speaker-sama noticed me?

Cojawfee posted:

Don't skip season 1, there are still some good episodes in there.

Also the amazing series finale won't be quite as good if you don't watch Encounter at Farpoint, as lame as it is in a lot of ways.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


turn off the TV posted:

I'm pretty sure the thing that some people (and I assume you're referring to RLM here) don't like about the dumb political stuff in the prequels is the fact that episode 1 just kind of cold opens with space taxes and doesn't really bother to explain itself, or even introduce anything resembling a protagonist, until maybe half way through the movie. Even then none of the characters are really very sympathetic or well characterized, so the entire thing just ends up being a giant puddle of who cares. RLM's criticism that the movie is too juvenile and silly is also in line with the space taxes and poor characterization thing, because the film bounces between cardboard cutouts discussing space taxes and jar jar binks stepping in poop and making funny noises.

I don't watch RLM so I don't know what that guy thinks. Im not gonna expound on Star Wars feelings at length in this thread but I don't think "it's a cold open and expects me to care about the plot of the movie for some reason, wtf" is a very meaningful criticism. The original Star Wars' opening is cold as gently caress after all.

e: also I'm not sure but I feel what you mean here is more that it opens in medias res than that it's a cold open. Cold opens are more like what Star Trek has, where there's like a teaser and then the opening titles/credits.

skasion fucked around with this message at Sep 24, 2017 around 01:32

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

DAMMIT WESLEY!!!


turn off the TV posted:

I'm pretty sure the thing that some people (and I assume you're referring to RLM here) don't like about the dumb political stuff in the prequels is the fact that episode 1 just kind of cold opens with space taxes and doesn't really bother to explain itself, or even introduce anything resembling a protagonist, until maybe half way through the movie. Even then none of the characters are really very sympathetic or well characterized, so the entire thing just ends up being a giant puddle of who cares. RLM's criticism that the movie is too juvenile and silly is also in line with the space taxes and poor characterization thing, because the film bounces between cardboard cutouts discussing space taxes and jar jar binks stepping in poop and making funny noises.
My favorite thing about TPM is that so little of it matters that you could easily just go straight into AotC and not really miss much of anything

The Naboo stuff doesn't matter. The Trade Federation becomes a footnote in Episodes 2 and 3 as they get rolled into being Sidious' pawns along with the Geonosians. Padme and Anakin barely interact much in TPM so you don't miss anything with that. Darth Maul, for all of the buildup we get with him, is irrelevant after TPM. Qui Gon is only in TPM to die and convince Obi Wan to train Anakin even though the Jedi Counsel knows it's a bad idea.

Really the only major thing is that Jar Jar somehow becomes a Senator and casts the deciding vote to create the Empire, because of course he does

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Beachcomber posted:

I don't remember where I read it, but it was about the Star Wars prequel trilogy compared to the Force Awakens. George Lucas tried to do something different with them and the market responded that no, in fact Star Wars was about X-Wings, and smugglers, and definitely not politics.

Counterpoint, Rogue 1 is also about ISIS in space being (some of) the good guys.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


FlamingLiberal posted:

My favorite thing about TPM is that so little of it matters that you could easily just go straight into AotC and not really miss much of anything

The Naboo stuff doesn't matter. The Trade Federation becomes a footnote in Episodes 2 and 3 as they get rolled into being Sidious' pawns along with the Geonosians. Padme and Anakin barely interact much in TPM so you don't miss anything with that. Darth Maul, for all of the buildup we get with him, is irrelevant after TPM. Qui Gon is only in TPM to die and convince Obi Wan to train Anakin even though the Jedi Counsel knows it's a bad idea.

Really the only major thing is that Jar Jar somehow becomes a Senator and casts the deciding vote to create the Empire, because of course he does

Also that Anakin is born a slave and the Jedi tear his family apart and treat him like poo poo, fostering a burning resentment towards the social order that eventually leads him to commit mass murder and become the antichrist.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010


Anybody advocating skipping a Q episode can go right to hell.

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cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

I'll fight... I will!


Kibayasu posted:

Anybody advocating skipping a Q episode can go right to hell.

Q episodes are, generally speaking, no better or worse than the other episodes in the season they belong to.

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