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Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

bob enjoyable human being posted:

Is this going to be a good place to start from? I haven't watched any Star Trek before.

Do it. We need a test subject to figure out if this show actually accomplishes its goal of being "Not your daddy's Star Trek."

We're not paying for your All Access subscription though

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turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002

Don't want the usual merchandise
recycled in a new disguise


cheetah7071 posted:

Q episodes are, generally speaking, no better or worse than the other episodes in the season they belong to.

Maybe so, but Q himself, on the other hand, is always fun to watch.

Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


Watching Hero Worship. Some kind of weird space stuff seems to have happened to a ship they found.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

I'll fight... I will!


Jeb! Repetition posted:

Watching Hero Worship. Some kind of weird space stuff seems to have happened to a ship they found.

wrong thread

maybe two threads was a mistake after all

Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


Edit: wrong thread

Drink-Mix Man
Mar 4, 2003

Uh-huh!

FlamingLiberal posted:

My favorite thing about TPM is that so little of it matters that you could easily just go straight into AotC and not really miss much of anything

The Naboo stuff doesn't matter. The Trade Federation becomes a footnote in Episodes 2 and 3 as they get rolled into being Sidious' pawns along with the Geonosians. Padme and Anakin barely interact much in TPM so you don't miss anything with that. Darth Maul, for all of the buildup we get with him, is irrelevant after TPM. Qui Gon is only in TPM to die and convince Obi Wan to train Anakin even though the Jedi Counsel knows it's a bad idea.

Really the only major thing is that Jar Jar somehow becomes a Senator and casts the deciding vote to create the Empire, because of course he does

none of the prequel trilogy matters. We were capable of enjoying chapters 4-6 for twenty years without it.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Regarde Aduck posted:

You can like a show and admit its flaws. Star trek had some amazing sci fi plots and good characters on one side. On the other it had inconsistent writing quality.

Matter/Antimatter take here.

Trickjaw
Jun 23, 2005
Nadie puede dar lo que no tiene



Not that it really matters BMJ, but the trailer for is locked in the UK.

Swiss Knight
Jul 17, 2006

Dear Leader, who is a perfect incarnation of the appearance that a leader should have


If you're a sucker for Star Trek backstory & lore like I am, here's a probably completely inaccurate account of whats going on in the galaxy in the era of Star Trek Discovery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeAHWJ7OzDw

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.




mllaneza posted:

Counterpoint, Rogue 1 is also about ISIS in space being (some of) the good guys.

Counter-counterpoint: X-Wings, unsavoury-types

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


Trickjaw posted:

Not that it really matters BMJ, but the trailer for is locked in the UK.

poo poo, I never thought to check. If anyone has a link to one that works outside the US I'll add it to the OP

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Trickjaw posted:

Not that it really matters BMJ, but the trailer for is locked in the UK.

Everything in this video is true, but I can't see almost any of it being acknowledged in the show by the new showrunners.

Despite their protestations of saying they have "canon experts" in the writers room and everything will fit in, they will never show a smooth headed Klingon, keep the Romulans hidden, or call back to anything that happened on the show Enterprise. I don't think they have any respect for Bermanga-Era Trek at all either, so TNG/DS9/VOY stuff is out the window--this guy thinking they'll show Cardassians or Breen is lol.

I also think they will selectively use pieces of TOS. The way we're not seeing Pike era uniforms or equipment and that the ships look nothing like TOS on the outside leads me to believe they are throwing out The Cage/Menagerie entirely--in fact when this guy says the Constitution class ships are in service at this time he's right, but I think this show wants to end with the constuction of a brand new class of ships--the Constitution. I am sure at this point they don't recognize April or Pike and want to believe Kirk was the first captain of the Enterprise.

My theory is this show is intended to be a BSG style reboot of Trek that selectively borrows concepts from certain broad parts of TOS only. We'll see tonight I guess.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



I will never understand this attitude that updating sets, costumes and makeup to modern standards is somehow disrespectful to the old show. The reason this show doesn't look like a show from 1966 is because it is 2017 now.

Discovery may well be bad, but it won't be bad because of the Klingon makeup or the starfleet uniforms.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

I don't understand how Starfleet could go from these touchscreen interfaces on the Discovery, to Jelly Bean based controls on The 1701 Enterprise.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Cojawfee posted:

I don't understand how Starfleet could go from these touchscreen interfaces on the Discovery, to Jelly Bean based controls on The 1701 Enterprise.

The jelly beans controls are actually far more advanced than the touchscreen, since they themselves are micro touchscreens, allowing the operators to carry out up to hundreds of functions at once.

See, it's not that hard to justify the change.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

So what happens when I eat the jelly beans?

Crusader
Apr 11, 2002

Progress that shields us from the terrors of an uncertain future.






Grimey Drawer



Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


marktheando posted:

I will never understand this attitude that updating sets, costumes and makeup to modern standards is somehow disrespectful to the old show. The reason this show doesn't look like a show from 1966 is because it is 2017 now.

Discovery may well be bad, but it won't be bad because of the Klingon makeup or the starfleet uniforms.

So if they made this exact show, with these ships, Klingons, and uniforms and said it was a prequel to TNG and was set 10 years before Encounter at Farpoint or maybe during the time of the Enterprise C, you would have no problem with that because "that was a show from 1986 and it is 2017 now"?

Call me a nerd, but I've spent a good deal of leisure time exploring the history of this universe since I was a kid, going back decades, and it's no different from me than if you made a WWII movie and had modern day guns and uniforms and gave the Nazis a different flag.

They had three valid choices in my view:

1. Respect the look of the time, like DS9 did with Trials and Tribbleations.
2. Don't make it a prequel if you want your own look and modern tech
3. Make it a reboot like JJ did, with or without the time travel shennanigans to tie it into the Original Timeline

Instead they have gone out of their way to do absolutely none of those things. I don't necessarily need it to look like The Cage because I didn't have a burning desire to see a show set during that time period. I just really don't want them changing what to me is established history.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



I would not have a problem with this look in a pre TNG setting either, no. If they did something in that time period a uniform change away from the TNG pyjamas would be most welcome.

And being respectful to the 60 million dead of the bloodiest war in history, that is still within living memory, is wildly different from changing up the look of a fictional tv show, holy poo poo.

evilmiera
Dec 14, 2009

Status:Perpetually fearful

As someone who has watched every series I really don't care if they change looks or even big story beats. Those old shows still exist and trying to conform to nostalgia isn't as fun to me as seeing new exciting things.

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE
Oct 3, 2009



ALWAYS
BE
CRYING


The aesthetics argument is silly anyhow because even within our world we often see massive sweeping changes to the way things look in the timeframe of a decade.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

PARTY ON, GARTH OF IZAR


The aesthetics look like poo poo, that's the problem

I mean yeah it would be nice if it at least *tried* to look TOSy instead of "60s kitsch" or whatever the hell they're going for.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



I quite like the uniforms, except for the bit with all those little starfleet logos. That's a bit much.

Better than TNG era uniforms, but not as good as those stylish red uniforms from the original series movies.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



It would be nice if, when doing a prequel, it either looked something like the time period or looked good. Discovery doesn't seem to do either. We'll find out!

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


marktheando posted:

I would not have a problem with this look in a pre TNG setting either, no. If they did something in that time period a uniform change away from the TNG pyjamas would be most welcome.

And being respectful to the 60 million dead of the bloodiest war in history, that is still within living memory, is wildly different from changing up the look of a fictional tv show, holy poo poo.

Oh come on, you know what I mean, I'm not comparing Star Trek to a war. I said WWII movies because that is a historical time where the military and ships are portrayed often in film/tv. You do know they actually made war comedies even during WWII, right?

I can use another analogy I guess--a western set in the 1800s with cars and machine guns and modern clothes but it's supposed to be a historical drama, not a comedy like Wild Wild West or a stylized reinterpretation like Romeo+Juliet.

I can see what you're saying--this is fiction so who cares, just enjoy it for the storytelling and acting. But Star Trek fans pretty much invented the concept of sperging over canon, overanalyzing throwaway lines, looking in detail about ships and uniforms. A lot of modern fandom-conventions, cosplay, technical manuals, tie in novels, fan fiction, etc, came from or were greatly shaped by Star Trek fans. It's kinda what a lot of us do.

Not everyone does, so I get that you and a lot of fans, and especially the coveted nonfan audience CBS is so desparate to attract, don't care about this stuff. But a lot of us do and that's not gonna change. I can let a lot of stuff go--I was very against Enterprise at first and how it played fast and loose with continuity--viewscreens, phase pistols, Borg, Ferengi, ridged Klingons, an previously unseen Starfleet starship Enterprise--I got over that and accepted how they worked it in. But with Discovery it's like "here we go again", and we don't even have a 15 year veteran production team calling the shots.

They're basically saying "this is now Star Trek. This is canon and what happened. We are deciding that certain things on TOS or TNG or Enterprise happened but also that some did not. Deal with it." Who are they to decide that?

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Arglebargle III posted:

It would be nice if, when doing a prequel, it either looked something like the time period or looked good. Discovery doesn't seem to do either. We'll find out!

It also just feels kind of lazy and uncreative to completely ignore the aesthetic of the thing you're making. A good team of designers should have been able to come up with something that evoked the feel of TOS, even if everything was properly modernized and made to be more logical and functional. The fact that they apparently didn't even try and instead just went with something that looks like generic, modern sci-fi doesn't bother me, but it's one of the red flags the show is throwing up in my mind.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007



Has anyone brought up the look of the Klingons yet? Because it feels awfully....racist?

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



There's also the BSG route where they ignored the aesthetics of the previous show and instead went for functional inspiration from modern aircraft carriers. The flight deck uniforms on BSG are lifted wholesale from the USN. Enterprise went that route with real astronaut outfits. Unfortunately like everything on Enterprise the uniforms were extremely boring, but jumpsuits and patches with primary color stripes could have been rehabilitated for Discovery. But instead they went for this like, half pajama half Napoleonic era hussar outfit?

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007



Astroman posted:

They're basically saying "this is now Star Trek. This is canon and what happened. We are deciding that certain things on TOS or TNG or Enterprise happened but also that some did not. Deal with it." Who are they to decide that?

Yeah, it makes it seem like all that time spent absorbing the details of a fictional universe was wasted. If a new Star Trek show won't respect that investment, what will?

Crusader
Apr 11, 2002

Progress that shields us from the terrors of an uncertain future.






Grimey Drawer

expectations are pretty low but will be happy if it does turn out to be something special - it's kinda crazy how long it's been since we've had new tv Trek though

galenanorth
May 19, 2016


I'm predicting the guy who can sense death will occasionally be used like the guy who harasses Ishmael near the beginning of Moby Dick, the hunchbacked old stock character who warns in hushed tones, "that man/boat/mansion is cursed" for some spooky vibe

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



I mean Star Trek canon is already pretty nonsensical. That episode of Enterprise where they go back to the present day and it sure doesn't seeem like the Eugenics wars have happened.

Just view these things as all being Star Trek stories and don't worry about how they all fit together.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

PARTY ON, GARTH OF IZAR


Paradoxish posted:

It also just feels kind of lazy and uncreative to completely ignore the aesthetic of the thing you're making. A good team of designers should have been able to come up with something that evoked the feel of TOS, even if everything was properly modernized and made to be more logical and functional. The fact that they apparently didn't even try and instead just went with something that looks like generic, modern sci-fi doesn't bother me, but it's one of the red flags the show is throwing up in my mind.

To me it feels like the people making Trek think that something that looks and sounds cool and futuristic and something that resembles Star Trek are two opposing concepts. This conflicts with their whole "come watch this you nerds, it's got harry mudd in it you remember him right" sales angle and makes the whole thing seem underhanded and shlocky.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



Nods to continuity like Harry Mudd are fine (fans will know him but he can work without previous knowledge), but making the main character Spock's adopted sister does make me worry that they are going to get too bogged down in "hey remember this!" rather than trying to make something new.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Trek has been successful enough that it ran into a kind of unusual problem for sci-fi stories, where people are still trying to work with it long past the point where it ceases to make sense as a "possible future" and has to be considered as an "alternate history" type story instead. We are now closer in time to the time when Star Trek says the warp drive will be invented, than we are to the time when Star Trek first aired. It kind of puts the backstory up a creek because if they try and stick to what previous installments have established then we're watching a show set in a bizarre parallel universe where the 90s was dominated by genetically enhanced warlords, the IRA successfully reunited Ireland through terrorism, and the USSR existed into the 24th century. On the other hand everything you change is another impediment to suspension of disbelief in a franchise that already needs it in spades, and decreases the coherence of the work with the work of which it is derivative.

turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002

Don't want the usual merchandise
recycled in a new disguise


galenanorth posted:

I'm predicting the guy who can sense death will occasionally be used like the guy who harasses Ishmael near the beginning of Moby Dick, the hunchbacked old stock character who warns in hushed tones, "that man/boat/mansion is cursed" for some spooky vibe

I'm predicting he'll be the next Troi. He's pretty much going to be Lt. Obvious-Stater.

Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009

"But what was the Empire really about? Was it truly the savior of the galaxy, as he had been taught? Or was it more like Ketcher's gem, hard and brilliant on the outside, but pure poison within?"


Title sequence:

https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/sta...998929767620609

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Huh. I guess they're not afraid to be different?

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvement are roads of genius.

Well it did chill me further on this show. So I guess that's not a lie?

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Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

PARTY ON, GARTH OF IZAR


Cool visuals, absolutely shite theme. Good god.

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