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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

If you live outside the US and Canada it's on netflix. Canada generally gets the worst of both worlds when it comes to streaming licensing poo poo.

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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Holy gently caress I hate this show and part 2 better be her being sent to space jail and her career ruined. God drat this is bad.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Why the gently caress did the main character have to do a fly by. Do they not have probes or drones or anything? Everything about the show made me angry and I hate everyone except the super lanky guy just because he's a pretty interesting looking alien for trek.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Zaphod42 posted:

The expanse is smart though, and expects the audience to pay attention. They do show, don't tell. Star trek is mainstream hollywood stupid poo poo where everything is explained 4 times before it happens so nobody is lost.


Yep. In Discovery the characters felt dramatic for cliched reasons, because they wanted drama. It doesn't feel real or make sense. In Expanse the characters have drama because they're real people with real believable backstories that happen to conflict in real ways.


This, 1000x this. Discovery is so poorly written with all the drama manufactured rather than coming naturally from the characters and plot.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

evilmiera posted:

Did anyone make an honest good call in these episodes? Aside from the science officer that is. The captain allows an officer to risk their life for no reason when they should be waiting for backup, that same officer suggests landing on something that is emitting strange signals and might as well be a bomb or weapon, the Klingons all want to murder everyone including themselves and the Vulcans somehow decided that murdering people whenever they meet them is a good idea. Also that officer thinks knocking out their captain and trying to fool the crew into committing warcrimes is a good idea. Heck the crew is going along with it until the captain tells them no.

Nope, zero good calls in the whole show other than lanky dude wanting to be cautious and being racially mocked for it. It's full JJ trek where apparently starfleet academy doesn't really train or screen anyone. Untreated PTSD and insubordinate? Yeah we'll make you command!

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Raged posted:

Exactly. While most normal people who are fans of Star Trek are really enjoying the show

Nah, all the people I know who aren't really trek nerds who gave it a chance were put off by the terrible writing and unlikable uninteresting characters. The only people I know who enjoy the show are huge trek nerds desperately thirsty for more trek.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Fidel Cuckstro posted:

Deep Space 9 was better.

Remember the opening to DS9 when jake and Sisko are walking through a huge endless baseball field?
"It's been a challenge being a single father to you, my son, Jake Sisko, my son of 13 years"
"Yes father, as we both remember life has been tough for the two of us as a family unit ever since mom was killed at Wolf 359"
"Agreed, my son. I'm still haunted by that event and I'm still have beef with Captain Picard over this, if I ever met him again I'd make sure he knows."
"Thats understandable dad that you would have those feelings, since Captain Picard was a borg at the time and used his starfleet knowledge to wipe out our fleet"
"I sure do have a lot of unresolved emotions over the loss of my wife, your mother."
"So dad, you were saying we're moving to a space station now? You said it was called Deep Space 9? Sounds like a good set up for some adventure but also a challenging place to raise a son, like me, your son."
"Yes son, I know you remember since we've been discussing this for the last few months, but maybe someone is eavesdropping on our conversation so I feel we should add a lot of exposition to this very natural sounding conversation we are having."
"You're right number 1, I mean dad, you're my number 1 dad. Let's go over the specifics again just in case anyone new is listening in."
"Look son, we're not lost, you just needed to trust your father, me, Commander Benjamin Sisko from New Orleans on earth."
*Camera zooms out to show that the duo was actually walking the bases and have returned to home plate safe and sound*

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Sep 26, 2017

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Shibawanko posted:

Yeah we will probably never get a good ST series again. TNG and DS9 were products of their time, it's hard to imagine DS9 being produced today. DS9, like X-files, hit that sweet spot between monster of the week and serial arcs, it had both arc episodes and "filler" isolated ones, which let characters develop in an unhurried way. Today's TV has to have something dramatic happen every second. That's why the first 5 minutes of STD was an as-you-know infodump, they didn't want to spend time developing the characters because every minute without monster size ships epically blasting each other is wasted time. I would've liked to know more about that timid tall alien guy, or the daft punk robot, maybe give them a nice focused episode where they deal with a dumb problem so they can grow on you, and THEN put them in a long arc. There's no way that will ever happen again in the foreseeable future.

Yeah this is just a big problem with a lot of TV now, everything needs the drama and tension and movement turned up to 11 at all times with no moment to breathe. But even shows like Breaking Bad which was full of manufactured and idiocy-fueled-tension still managed to have some humour and heart here and there and even if you loved or hated a character you felt something about them pretty quickly. You had skinny pete going on about trek and babylon 5, just little fun character moments that gave the show time to breathe. Plus, as manufactured as the drama often was, it was well written and things mostly made sense. It's the same with The Expanse, it's gritty and dramatic and dark but outside of Holden the characters are interesting and even likeable, plus they stop to breathe and have a laugh here and there, or at least stop to digest and discuss.

Discovery thinks to be a modern dark gritty prestige drama or whatever it needs to be 100% serialized and the core plot can never stop, things have to keep moving full speed ahead at all times. Don't worry about what a character would do or wasting time developing them, characters just exist to keep the plot and action moving. Only develop characters as a means of advancing the core plot, and the core plot just exists as a basic framework to hang drama and action on. Just move so fast and make everything so bright and shiny hopefully no one notices how terrible the writing is.

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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

ewe2 posted:

Yeah the Doctor Who Syndrome I call it. They don't have the budget nor the patience with their audience enough to slow it down. The way how it's papered over how they get back to Star Fleet command for a nice little military trial really sticks out.

That's another huge problem with JJ-Trek and new Starwars, everything seems tiny because a sense of scale or time is boring man, keep things pumping, keep the action moving, next tense scene, next setpiece battle, next big dramatic twist. Make it like 24, make it all feel to be happening in real time without any breaks. They want to create this feeling of non-stop movement and action, its so intense the characters don't have any time to take a breath and neither does the viewer. Waiting a day for a reply from command, sitting down to discuss the situation, or taking a week to travel somewhere all break up this breakneck pacing. It's like how joggers have to jog in place while waiting at traffic lights, you gotta keep your heart rate up and consistently up. Shows like Discovery and movies like JJtrek treat the audience like joggers, you have to keep their heart rate consistently elevated at all times or you're not doing it right.

I don't think this sort of pacing is enjoyable, and I think it's generally used to hope no one has time to stop and digest how bad everything is.

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