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Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



I think the Simone vote was pretty simple. Patrick is an asset in challenges and has connections to both Ryan and Ali. The editors were playing up the unpredictability narrative but he seems like he'd be a loyal foot soldier as long as you can put up with his weirdness. Simone was a liability in challenges and unable to connect with her tribe until Ali made the first move. Her intelligence also probably made her a threat. Its not rocket science she ended up out first on the tribe.

Liking Ali and the Ryan-Devon bromance quite a bit so far. Chrissy and Ben are okay. If Alan can tone down the paranoia he might be somewhat interesting to watch. Who fuckin knows with the healer tribe. Desi seems likable from what very little screen time they've had.

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Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



I couldn't care less about either person on the chopping block tonight.

Nonetheless I did get the vibe Patrick would have been more loyal going forward, though maybe not by a significant amount. Lauren doesn't seem eminently untrustworthy and I don't really see her gelling instantly with anybody in particular on the other two tribes. What may have been the kicker is the fact that Patrick had less chance of surviving the inevitable tribeswap before the merge, whereas Lauren will probably sneak through and be able to potentially reunite with the other 3 Hustlers.

Anyway this season is a bit of a yawnfest so far and I'm hoping some more interesting personalities emerge soon.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Alan was becoming more likable with each episode so that outcome is a bit of a bummer. Really smooth play though by Jessica, as she flushed Joe's idol while also helping keep their numbers intact.

This season is growing on me.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



ApplesandOranges posted:

Desi and Ashley have to vote for either Joe or Alan on a re-vote (since Joe/Alan/Devon all can't vote). If that's deadlocked and the tribe can't agree on who to ouster, then Desi/Ashley/Devon draw rocks.

What would have been hilarious would be if they both decided to flip on the re-vote because they're sick of their respective crazy partners and it ends up being a tie anyway.

Man, I thought Devon would be the dumb jock of the season... but nope, Cole is running far and away with the prize.

Devon is charming AF and I'm starting to hope he pulls a Fabio and wins this season.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Fedelm posted:

Does Chrissy still have that now-worthless idol? It would have been hilarious at some point she would show it to someone pretending that she has immunity but it would backfire because Ryan would recognize it. But I'm enjoying this alliance, and maybe they can still use that idol.


She does, and if she and Ryan are on the same page, it seems like there's some potential for them to orchestrate some havoc with that thing.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



I would guess Ryan-Devon-Chrissy-Ashley-JP is about a sure lock for an alliance. Kinda makes too much sense not to be.

Ben and Lauren are the wildcards. Could easily see them being roped in with that 5 by default, but could also see them sticking with the healers. They know that Cole and Jessica are going to be easy targets because of their showmance, and could use that to solidify with Mike, Joe and Desi within the alliance of 7, with an end goal of a Mike-Ben-Lauren final 3. Would make some sense because that Hustlers-Heroes group will be tougher competition. I kind of think they'll stick with the aforementioned 5 though because Chrissy (totally gonna win) and Ryan (the most Oedipal goat of all time) are getting an assload of screentime.

On a Ryan note, I get the criticism, but his moves make more sense when you consider the post-merge assortment of players. Chrissy and JP will be instrumental in bringing in Ben and Ashley (can't assume that Ryan knows that Devon and Ashley are tight AF), so voting out one of them would have hurt the likelihood of a post-merge Hustlers-Heroes alliance. Ali's usefulness was tied to supposedly being able to bring in Lauren but I'm not convinced that would have been an automatic get. Also, JP will be a mindless foot soldier/extra vote/perfect shield to the end, so there's no real incentive for Chrissy to get on board with voting him out.

So yeah, Ryan went about it like an rear end in a top hat, but it was the right move. Still think Chrissy takes him to the cleaners though so he's gonna need to find a way to get her out sooner than later.

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Nov 4, 2017 around 11:59

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Seems like I'm in the minority here but I think the more interesting group of players won out this episode. I was much more curious to see how Chrissy-Ryan-Devon play the game than the other potential bunch.

Not sure though that Ben and Lauren made the right decision. I think they could have Pagonged the heroes + hustlers with the healers and then taken advantage of the inevitable split caused by the Cole/Jessica showmance and/or Joe's shenanigans. Now they're stuck with 3 or 4 strong players (Chrissy, Ryan, Devon, and perhaps Ashley) instead of 2 (Jessica and Mike...Joe aint poo poo), and in an alliance full of people they haven't been able to connect with for the previous 9 days. They could still very well flip back to the healers though, especially since the showmance got split, and Mike & co. should be angling for that heavily.

Good lord, Cole is just not too bright. Agreed with whoever said that it seems like he means well and is somewhat endearing, but I mean, telling Joe that the Yawa 5 had a pact? He surpassed his prior missteps (spilling the beans about...pretty much everything) with that one.

Ben and Lauren seem goat-ish at the moment. Ryan looks really strong all of a sudden. If he can sit back and let Chrissy take the heat as the strategic threat while not rubbing people the wrong way, he could be poised for a run. He's gonna have to start shoring up some firm allies aside from Devon though cuz Chrissy is clowning him in that department. Mike looked well-positioned pre-boot but now he has his work cut out for him. Would consider him the dark horse behind Chrissy, Ryan and Devon (in that order-ish).

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Nov 10, 2017 around 07:09

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



ApplesandOranges posted:

How are Ben and Lauren goat-ish? They're in prime swing vote position. Ben has links to Chrissy/Ashley, Lauren can link with Ryan/Devon, and both can link back to Mike/Cole. They have a lot of options and right now both sides need to court their vote.

I think they might end up suffering from Swing Vote Syndrome where they find themselves in the middle for enough TC's that they end up alienating jury members on both sides, but end up sticking around just by virtue of being extra votes for more strategic and/or charismatic players like Chrissy, Devon, Mike, Ryan, etc.

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Nov 10, 2017 around 11:02

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Spergatory posted:

You guys are loving crazy, this season is great. Comedy, drama, and a perfect mixture of actual smart people and amazing idiots.

This. It's a cool season so far. I find myself either liking for whatever reason (including Cole for his pure foolishness), or at least being indifferent toward, everybody left. Its nice that there's nobody overtly dislikable. Chrissy is probably an arrogant move away from that category, though, at least for me. She reaaaaaally needs to stop whispering to alliance members when other people are a foot or two away, jeez.

I get the sense that Ryan/Chrissy supremacy is being set up for an eventual collapse, as they're now being given a bit of an edit similar to Tyler/Mama C from Worlds Apart. I was very low on Lauren last week, but could now see her and somebody like Mike being in the right place at the right time when the core Hero/Hustler alliance starts eating itself and having a real chance at the end.

The question is, how would that process begin? As much as they appear to dislike eachother, Ben and Joe/Cole are gonna have to put their machismo aside and start working together because that's their best shot at survival. There's no way any of them make it past the Chrissy/Ryan/Ashley/JP foursome otherwise. So, those 3 need would need to get it together, bring in Mike and Lauren, and flip the balance of power at the next tribal using Lauren's advantage. Or, they could try and pry Devon away by convincing him he's the bottom of that 5, but I sort of doubt that happens.

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Nov 17, 2017 around 05:20

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



ApplesandOranges posted:

Nothing says that Ashley/JP are glued to Chrissy/Ryan; we just haven't heard anything from them since the merge.

There's been nothing to indicate that Ben has any pull over Ashley/JP. They didn't even really work together while on the original Hero tribe. Conversely, there's a strong history of various combinations amongst the Chrissy-Ryan-Devon-Ashley-JP unit working and voting together since day 1. I'd put my money on that group staying strong instead of Ashley and JP randomly starting to work with the healers.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



STAC Goat posted:

Ryan and Chrissy wanted JP out once already because they saw him as a huge post merge threat out so you gotta assume that's going to come up again real soon.

I feel like this was not really that big of an issue, and was moreso just editors showing the two power players going through their only options to curry suspense before an obvious vote.

I mean, they'll be candidates to be picked off eventually just by virtue of being friendly enough people who haven't ruffled any feathers, but for now, the likelihood of them getting targeted (as well as of them organizing any sort of coup) is pretty low.

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Nov 17, 2017 around 06:16

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Those are fair points, but letting the most well liked player left (Mike) and the player with the most compelling narrative (Ben) make it through so you can take out the non-strategic immunity threat is risky as hell. My guess is those two (plus Cole) go before JP does.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Chrissy might very well be a jerk who didn't want to cooperate with the women she voted out, but that doesn't discount the fact that she has unequivocally outplayed all of them. These women, in addition to being legitimate threats (the women this season have generally been more threatening than the men), also coincidentally fell outside of Chrissy's immediate alliances at the time. This all just seems like sour grapes to me.

Having said that, she's making it much harder for herself socially than she needs to and will probably get burned for it eventually.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Yeah, I think the conditions are pretty suitable this season for a "nice" winner with good social connections and no history of burning bridges. Nobody has played an obviously excellent game, and gamebots Chrissy and Ryan are not being given the greatest of edits, though I still think maybe Chrissy can manage a win.

Outside of those 3 and Ben (who I do think is just too big a target at this point to make it significantly further), I think the one to watch is Lauren. She's been shown as being part of a lot of conversations going on around camp. I think she might also be the type to make a big move in the next few episodes.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Devon and Lauren are both pretty neck and neck in the "fuckin killin it" department. I think Devon has the edge at the moment, but I could see that working against him pretty soon, whereas Lauren has a clearer path to flying under the radar until the end. Dude 100% deserves to win if he makes it to the end though. It would be some pretty impressive handiwork if he somehow avoids the boot before then.

One of Ryan or Chrissy probably makes it to the end as a goat now. I wasn't as sour on them as others here, but their backpedalling was truly a thing to behold, one of those portrayals that you can just tell the editors are relishing in.

Ben's still a bit of a question mark for me. He gets a lot of attention for being a supposed huge threat, but I'm not convinced yet. His double agent task was helpful for the alliance, but sullies his individual game since its more of a feather in Devon's cap, and also just kinda makes him look skeezy. Too much negative attention for him without that much of a personal payoff.

I think if he makes it to end, he'll be like Coach from South Pacific: guy with lots of hype and a commanding persona, but sitting next to a quieter, more skilled player. My guess for final three at this point is him, one of Ryan/Chrissy and one of Devon/Lauren, with the latter winning.

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2017 around 17:27

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Holy poo poo, this season went from mundane to loving amazing in, what, 3 episodes?

Dr. Mike owns, even if all his success has more or less been gifted to him by other players making mistakes. Maybe he wins at this point tho idk. He's gonna have a ton of friends on the jury. Either way, throwing the idol in the fire was The Best.

Agreed that Ben is starting to look a little Mike Holloway-ish, though in contrast he's actively destroying trust each episode and it might lead to a bitter jury, whereas Mike at least earned respect by going on that insane immunity run. It would be surprising to see him get to the end, but if he does he probably wins, right?

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



I'm not as low on Chrissy as others are, but there's clearly a lot not to like: the regular, blatant shunning of non-alliance members until she needs their vote. The steadfast belief that the alliance of 7 was going to mindlessly fall into step until it came time to vote off one of their own. The obvious, complicit whispers between her and Ryan, Ben, etc. that served to reinforce her air of exclusivity. Her relative lack in grace in handling blindsides and the shift of power (though I do get her frustration with Ben). I mean, at the end of the day, she's just a bit of a socially clueless gamebot type without the easygoing charm of a Kim Spradlin or Cochran needed to smooth the edges of the strategic side of her game.

Ryan has ended up being a really interesting foil for her. He's handled the shift of power with a lot of grace, and without burning any bridges. If he can organize and take credit for Ben/Devon boots in the next few episodes, and be sitting next to Mike and Chrissy at the end, he might win. He would have to really throw Chrissy under the bus at FTC, though, voicing his awareness of her social ineptitude and claiming he aligned with her due to her ability to attract unwanted attention.

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Dec 9, 2017 around 05:55

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



I feel like Ben is just on such a pedestal at this point in the minds of everybody out there that he's a clear win if he makes it to the end, despite having reneged on pretty much all of his alliances and being Survivor's most recent beneficiary of its infatuation with idols.

Aside from him, yeah...I guess Mike could get some comedy votes at the end? I do think the way Chrissy has ended up back in a power position is admirable but I suspect neither she nor Ryan will get any love from the jury at the end. Devon going in for a hug with Ashley at TC was a bitchmade move that he surely cringed at while watching the episode at home. However, the game is still winnable for him if he can articulate himself well and be sitting next to Ryan and Chrissy (which is absolutely the right alignment for him at this point) at FTC. Ashley was being pretty sour grapes all episode and she seems mild-mannered enough of a person to maybe cool off from that with some time. Or not.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



I'll be honest in saying that I like when people I'm rooting for are the ones who end up with immunities and advantages. It sucks though when somebody irritating like Ben just kinda Magoo's his way into padding his already overrated resume by taking advantage of a gamehack.

However, in this situation, the onus was definitely on the other members to watch him like a loving hawk. They all know the deal with idols. If they were paranoid about individually volunteering to follow him and around and thus letting other members solidify alliances, they could have gone as a group. It was just pure laziness + possibly some arrogance and they totally deserved the outcome.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



ApplesandOranges posted:

I don't really mind Ben winning; he's played a decent game, though he's aided by a cast of Redemption Island-level bad players.

Hey now, that cast was extremely competent (at guaranteeing a win for anointed one Rob Mariano).

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



Go home, Survivor. You're drunk.

Devon

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



One more point on the "tailing players looking for idols" topic. Ben is a physically imposing human, moreso than the rest of the people on the island. He's also a Marine who's been through some poo poo. Do you really want to be the person standing between Ben and an idol? Or is there anything they could have practically done short of starting an actual fight to physically prevent Ben from obtaining it once he had the clue?

I mean, I guess you potentially have the knowledge that he found an idol, but 37+ days deep into the game, it's a cost/benefit analysis of just how worthwhile it really is to expend all that energy following somebody around literally 24 hours per day for knowledge of an event that is going to gently caress up your game regardless of whether or not you know about it.

STAC Goat posted:

(and I don't think Ben played it hard)

Were we watching the same show? He definitely played it up.

Having said that, it actually doesn't bug me as much as the "I'm doing this for my family!!!" line...like the people who say that are the only people in the history of the world who have had families. I do think its cool that a vet who's seen action can come on the show, and open up about his experience with PTSD and difficulty re-assimilating.

Nonetheless, my feelings toward Ben are mixed. In addition to finding idols, taking advantage of other players' miscues, and just generally persisting, he also made some prescient moves (namely, telling Devon about Ryan's idol and correctly sniffing out Lauren-Devon-Ashley's desire to vote him out) that ended up changing the landscape of the game pretty significantly. However, his path to the end was so obviously gifted to him by production that his victory is sullied. Did anybody mention how drat easy that last idol was to find? Wasn't it below the boat that people had been sitting on multiple times per game? He also developed this cult-like, public enemy #1 mystique that I thought was a somewhat inaccurate reflection that caused the perception of his gameplay to balloon to a silly proportion.

I'll admit as well that I grew to like Chrissy. I think it was quite impressive how she ended up back in the majority alliance (while ticking off a lot of the same "persistence" "hustle" "tenacity" boxes that Ben did) after getting knocked off her pedestal when the alliance of seven splintered. She didn't emphasize that nearly enough at FTC, although I still think she held her own very well (with the exception of continuing to interrupt the jury members...good lord, maybe develop some self-awareness of flaws?) She was not a perfect player, but she was at least Ben's equal in terms of gameplay (as was Devon). Not to mention the fact that Ben also played a socially flawed game, though for whatever reason that wasn't as a much of a dealbreaker for him as it was for Chrissy.

Vernacular fucked around with this message at Dec 22, 2017 around 07:25

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Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004



The Bloop posted:

Maybe I can find a way to soften the blow for the new jury member and also not look like a total doofus when Ben surprises me with yet another idol.


The latter is a fair point, although he's gonna look good regardless.

As for the former, actually I think the extra time to "soften the blow" could just as well lead to a messy sour grapes situation that might jeopardize a jury vote. Mike obviously wasn't holding a grudge against Chrissy, so that information was unnecessary for that particular purpose.

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