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orangelex44
Oct 11, 2012

Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

Psycho Landlord posted:

Lol


1) Truffle hounds would be neat but yeah they'd just be fluff

2) Isn't the bolded literally just Grail Guardians? Or am I misreading you here?

The guy I was replying to said "But the obvious missing cav element to me is a cheaper version of Grail Guardians - sword and board horsemen, thoroughly armoured, and able to brawl - without lances." So whatever that is.

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Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




orangelex44 posted:

The guy I was replying to said "But the obvious missing cav element to me is a cheaper version of Grail Guardians - sword and board horsemen, thoroughly armoured, and able to brawl - without lances." So whatever that is.

There's the disconnect, I didn't read that idea as "elite" cav, since the elites are the Grail boys and gals.

That's another thing that wouldn't necessarily be remiss I guess but it's a case of another fluff unit, since Questing Knights already occupy that role even nerfed as they are - they're still a tough, high damage unit that you can absolutely leave stuck in an infantry fight in any situation that doesn't hard counter them.

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



orangelex44 posted:

This applies to more than just Bretonnia, to be fair. I'd have to check to see which races are affected the most by it, but everyone has at least a couple variant-only units. I don't think that it would affect the relative values all that much, and all the races on the bottom still have plenty of space for new toys before they suddenly become overgeneralized. That's not just a Bretonnia thing either (and wasn't meant to be), it's no coincidence that four of the bottom seven races (Beastmen, Bret, Dawi, VC) are routinely mentioned as needing/wanting more attention, and that a fifth one (WElves) just got their first expansion DLC.

oh sure, like variants are absolutely necessary, but I think it exacerbates the problem Bretonnia already has with being a bit one-note. comparing VCounts, which also has variants, fewer units overall and is more restricted (no artillery/ranged)... you still get skeletons, ghouls, ghosts, animals, giant monsters, knights, chariots, plus all the lords and heroes. with Bretonnia there are two kinds of lord/hero only. half the infantry roster is just men-at-arms with a different hat

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




How dare you equate the noble Battle Pilgrim to a mere Man At Arms

EDIT The noble is figurative, figurative only, they are not actually nobles, only knights are noble

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



I wasn't actually! but there's five kinds of men-at-arms alone. that's a unit:variant ratio only Beastmen normally dream of

(how appropriate, since peasants and Beastmen etc etc)

I would like a Bretonnia peasant-ish hero called a Sheriff

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




Henri le Massif (which means Henry The Bigness in French) can take every other hero and also all LLs in a straight fight, further signifying Brettonian bestness

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



The guy I've been hearing the rumors/'leaks' from has said that while a Bretonnia revamp is on the plans for some point in the future, nothing's been established beyond concept art and spitballing with GW about what could be added.

He did say that Carcassone Shepherds are likely to make it in if CA does decide to add more units, though. They're a big deal in the RPG books.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Do bretonnians speak french or do they just grow up speaking reikspiel with that accent?

Vagabong
Mar 2, 2019


Cythereal posted:

He did say that Carcassone Shepherds are likely to make it in if CA does decide to add more units, though. They're a big deal in the RPG books.

Hell yeah, the series has been suffering from a distinct lack of slingers.

punishedkissinger
Sep 20, 2017



Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Do bretonnians speak french or do they just grow up speaking reikspiel with that accent?

Breton is a language similar to, but distinct from Reikspiel.

DourCricket
Jan 15, 2021

Thanks Coupleofkooks

Questions for anyone who has done a Drycha campaign, or just invaded Wood elf lands before -

How the heck do I take the Oak of Ages? I can only move one army at a time through the branch-internet and the cooldown is ~10 turns, though some events can lower it to like 5. HOWEVER, there are several wood elf factions there, they all hate me, and they have at least one full stack if not two. Should I just walk my armies over there over like 5 turns? Or is there some way to move multiple armies at once?

Are there any maps/notes somewhere on the internet showing how the chaos armies move through the map once they spawn? I took over much of the northern forests and am worried I have made myself the unequivocal first target of Chaos when they show up (which I bumped up to Hard because last time they got WRECKED by Ordertide, aren't I an idiot)

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers


So the Bretonnians are actually Dutch.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





DourCricket posted:

Questions for anyone who has done a Drycha campaign, or just invaded Wood elf lands before -

How the heck do I take the Oak of Ages? I can only move one army at a time through the branch-internet and the cooldown is ~10 turns, though some events can lower it to like 5. HOWEVER, there are several wood elf factions there, they all hate me, and they have at least one full stack if not two. Should I just walk my armies over there over like 5 turns? Or is there some way to move multiple armies at once?

Are there any maps/notes somewhere on the internet showing how the chaos armies move through the map once they spawn? I took over much of the northern forests and am worried I have made myself the unequivocal first target of Chaos when they show up (which I bumped up to Hard because last time they got WRECKED by Ordertide, aren't I an idiot)
Use "join war" diplomatic offer to someone who is at war with them to bypass calling allies into a declaration of war and pick them off one at a time.

DourCricket
Jan 15, 2021

Thanks Coupleofkooks

Terrible Opinions posted:

Use "join war" diplomatic offer to someone who is at war with them to bypass calling allies into a declaration of war and pick them off one at a time.

That is drat clever, thanks

edit: Also I just want to apologize to everyone in the thread for derailing a nearly 11 page riff on Bretonnia and getting us dangerously close to actually discussing the game that this thread is, nominally, about.

DourCricket fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Feb 23, 2021

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Vagabong posted:

Hell yeah, the series has been suffering from a distinct lack of slingers.

If they do make it in, Carcassone Shepherds would likely be a skirmisher unit. Fluff-wise, they're peasant 'militia' trained to military standards and women openly serve among them, because hey they're just shepherds defending their sheep from predators... right?

(predators like greenskin armies)

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


punishedkissinger posted:

Breton is a language similar to, but distinct from Reikspiel.

Notably, being based on France and in part Norman-occupied Britain, the nobles all have the silly French accent while the peasants have English accents. So there's enough there to communicate with the Reikspiel speaking Germans.

orangelex44
Oct 11, 2012

Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

DourCricket posted:

That is drat clever, thanks

edit: Also I just want to apologize to everyone in the thread for derailing a nearly 11 page riff on Bretonnia and getting us dangerously close to actually discussing the game that this thread is, nominally, about.

I mean unfortunately we don't have anything to argue about with Kislev or Cathay yet really. Unless someone in the thread has Strong Opinions on bear cav or elite ice archer ladies that I'm not aware of. I eagerly await when the last TW:WH2 DLC drops and there's no Beastmen - although that's going to be a much larger explosion on reddit, I don't think anyone here would be super mad about that.

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




My Strongest Opinions are about Bear Cavalry, you will find

The opinion is "this loving owns" by the way

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




Bear-mounted Blessed Trebuchets (shields) (halberds)

DeadFatDuckFat
Oct 29, 2012

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Psycho Landlord posted:

My Strongest Opinions are about Bear Cavalry, you will find

The opinion is "this loving owns" by the way

What do you call the person riding the bear? Bearman? Bear rider? Ursine knight?

orangelex44
Oct 11, 2012

Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

DeadFatDuckFat posted:

What do you call the person riding the bear? Bearman? Bear rider? Ursine knight?

loving awesome is what you call them

edit: it's also what you call a group of them, it's an "awesome" of bear cav instead of squad or troop or whatever

popewiles
Jan 8, 2006

Just chillin' in the sink



DeadFatDuckFat posted:

What do you call the person riding the bear? Bearman? Bear rider? Ursine knight?

"Sir"
Edit: or "Ma'am"

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Psycho Landlord posted:

My Strongest Opinions are about Bear Cavalry, you will find

The opinion is "this loving owns" by the way


orangelex44 posted:

loving awesome is what you call them

See, the power of Kislevite Bear Cavalry unites even the staunchest foes. Really this just means Brettonia should also have bear cavalry, but smaller and more french.

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers


Can bear cav beat grail knights

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




Luv 2 see Louen leading an Awesome of Brettonian Bears in Lance formation

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Can bear cav beat grail knights

We're shitposting but one of the things I am most curious for game 3 about is if Kislev can out-cav Brets on a unit to unit basis.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

popewiles posted:

"Sir"
Edit: or "Ma'am"

Surely it would be Ursir

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


Kaza42 posted:

Surely it would be Ursir

albany academy
Mar 6, 2013



Kaza42 posted:

Surely it would be Ursir


Psycho Landlord posted:

Luv 2 see Louen leading an Awesome of Brettonian Bears in Lance formation


We're shitposting but one of the things I am most curious for game 3 about is if Kislev can out-cav Brets on a unit to unit basis.

i'd be interested if kislev would differentiate based on staying power rather than initial charge, but basing that entirely on bears and i'm not familiar enough with how the winged hussars are supposed to work in comparison. i'd guess they'd just be northern reiksgard?

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




You know what's gonna be great now that I think about it. Ogres charging like cavalry, which was a mechanic they had in game and often let them literally run over units with small wounds. Nevermind their cavalry being on giant whooly rhinos.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



albany academy posted:

i'd be interested if kislev would differentiate based on staying power rather than initial charge, but basing that entirely on bears and i'm not familiar enough with how the winged hussars are supposed to work in comparison. i'd guess they'd just be northern reiksgard?

Going by the fluff, it would likely be different for the hussars and the bears. Kislev's thing in fluff in general is being faster and more lightly armored than the Empire - Kislev is huge and sparsely populated, and most of Chaos' armies are steppe nomads.

I'd expect bears to be the anvil of Kislev's cavalry while the rest of the Kislevite cavalry are faster and lighter.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009


How about the demon juggernauts. Aren't they super tough cavalry?

albany academy
Mar 6, 2013



that makes sense. making them elite light calv and having bears effectively be fast-ish monstrous inf sounds pretty cool

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




God just thinking of an Ogre Charge, I really hope they get it right. Maybe a unique animation like the minotaurs, but with belly blows.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009


Just fartin' and belchin everywhere

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Zzulu posted:

How about the demon juggernauts. Aren't they super tough cavalry?



Yep. All of the Chaos Gods have their own demonic mounts and cavalry, and Khorne's are the heaviest of the lot (not the slowest, but the most heavily armed and armored). Juggernauts are basically demonic rhinocerouses, ridden by either a mortal warrior (this is known as a Skullcrusher, you can see them in the TW3 trailer) or a Bloodletter (this is known as a Bloodcrusher, if you've played Dawn of War 2 you may recognize these).

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



somersaulting and cartwheeling ogre charge

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




Yeah my thinking RE Kislev Cav is the Bears will be more numerous Demigryphs in terms of combat ability (which will let them actually stay in fights as monster cav in a way that's dangerous to do a lot of the time with gryphs) and Lancers will be super fast shock cav.

Lancers were loving scary in TT as I recall, so they might be able to outcharge KotR depending on how CA decides to handle them.

yikes!
Jul 5, 2006




Soiled Meat

orangelex44 posted:

If you compare cost-to-cost? It's not that big of a difference, assuming you aren't using the explicit "THIS HEAVY CAV HARD COUNTERS LARGE" unit as your baseline. Bretonnia has a slightly higher top end, but they pay for it. They also get flying cav but as a general claim the mobility increase from flying is overcosted.

I'd like to see which comparisons you're making because this is so far outside my experience+eyes that I don't understand how you got to this, especially if you're disregarding the demi RoR

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Lt. Danger posted:

somersaulting and cartwheeling ogre charge

That's obviously the Ogre Ninjas.

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Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


At some point Juggernauts stop being Cavalry and become monstrous Cavalry. Think the giant elk Cavalry for the Welves but a giant demon robot bear-hog thing.

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