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Yusin
Mar 4, 2021


juggalo baby coffin posted:

its worth noting that the factions they have left are much more work to create also. the demons are all pretty extravagant, and theyre gonna have to do a lot of their own design work for the kislev and cathay rosters, unless theyre working super closely with GW on some totally un-hinted-at cathay faction

They have already said that this is the case as GW is doing work on Cathay and Kislev for the Reboot of the Old World.

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Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


There's a decent amount of Kislev stuff already and since we know GW have been working on them for a while I imagine it's not THAT much more for CA to do than most other factions. I would imagine they're easier than Vampire Coast were for example.

Cathay, now that is gonna be a lot of work.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



Insurrectionist posted:

There's a decent amount of Kislev stuff already and since we know GW have been working on them for a while I imagine it's not THAT much more for CA to do than most other factions. I would imagine they're easier than Vampire Coast were for example.

Cathay, now that is gonna be a lot of work.
For all we know GW has been working on Cathay as much or more than Kislev

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Fun Shoe

Whorelord posted:

3K's UI makes the game unplayable for me.

Yeah the UI in 3K is just a train wreck and I gave up on it. The lack of gameplay diversity was pretty apparent when I tried a second campaign too. It's hard to beat Warhammer for campaign variety and it has a functional UI where I don't need to mouseover absolutely every element to get information.

The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Apr 7, 2021

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



They're basically going to have to make a different skeleton for every single Daemon unit

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers


Whorelord posted:

3K's UI makes the game unplayable for me.

Oh, so its not just me.

I dont know
Aug 9, 2003



Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Oh, so its not just me.

Definitely not. I bounced off 3K pretty hard just because the UI seemed so confusing, and at the time I just didn't have the energy to puzzle it out over x hours of trial and error gameplay or even watch a bunch of youtube tutorials. I know there is a lot of good stuff underneath if I can get through all of that, but ehh.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



I really wish they'd use more of the wonderful full body 2D art for characters in hams instead of the ugly 3D portholes. Also characters' weapons switching to depict what they're wielding on the battle map.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

For all we know GW has been working on Cathay as much or more than Kislev

They probably have worked more on Cathay honestly but like, Kislev had quite a decent amount of stuff already. It lacked models and the roster could definitely use some expansion but conceptually and artistically it was really fleshed out in old WHFB. There's a ton of stuff there that probably won't see any real changes for the fantasy relaunch/TWW3 that CA could easily start working on implementing while GW finishes up the new stuff.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I really wish they'd use more of the wonderful full body 2D art for characters in hams instead of the ugly 3D portholes. Also characters' weapons switching to depict what they're wielding on the battle map.

I'm just imagining Karl taping the Reikland Runefang to Ghal Maraz.

Just Chamber
Feb 10, 2014

WE MUST RETURN TO THE DANCE! THE NIGHT IS OURS!



Whorelord posted:

3K's UI makes the game unplayable for me.

Co-sign.

Plus I have zero love for the setting so that didnt help. Like if it was something I was already interested I'm sure I would have taken the time to learn the UI and mechanics. I did play enough to see the diplomacy improvements they need to bring to WH.

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers


jokes posted:

I'm just imagining Karl taping the Reikland Runefang to Ghal Maraz.

If it's good enough for Ripley...

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





3K did some magic on the battlefield to make everything feel really smooth to use and just fun. No idea what the exact difference is just that it feels better to control. Also I way prefer the three lords per stack instead of one + random heroes.

CMYK BLYAT!
Nov 7, 2011

tolko zhaesh, poshli ikh na X
ne umru ya, moi drug, nikogda!



Insurrectionist posted:

They probably have worked more on Cathay honestly but like, Kislev had quite a decent amount of stuff already.

wait, what? i thought all it had were empire units and a few voice lines for diplomacy.

granted, i would love if CA released it with "Kislev." as basically the only diplo line, but i don't have high hopes.

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

Eimi posted:

Also I way prefer the three lords per stack instead of one + random heroes.

I got used to this, but I don't know that I prefer it. It makes army comp dependent on what commanders you can recruit, which felt restrictive. I haven't played TK in a while but I remember I always wanted a blue commander in every stack for the siege weapons + archers and there were some commander types I basically never used because they didn't seem to fill a good niche.

Edit: if they had the three lord limit but ditched the retinue system or kept retinues but opened up recruitment I'd be fine with it (like anyone can recruit units, but commanders boost different unit types, and just having a blue commander would boost any archer units anywhere in their stack for example).

Randallteal fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Apr 8, 2021

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





CMYK BLYAT! posted:

wait, what? i thought all it had were empire units and a few voice lines for diplomacy.

granted, i would love if CA released it with "Kislev." as basically the only diplo line, but i don't have high hopes.
He meant the tabletop faction not the computer game one. Whereas Cathay had nearly no rules or models.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Randallteal posted:

I got used to this, but I don't know that I prefer it. It makes army comp dependent on what commanders you can recruit, which felt restrictive. I haven't played TK in a while but I remember I always wanted a blue commander in every stack for the siege weapons + archers and there were some commander types I basically never used because they didn't seem to fill a good niche.

Edit: if they had the three lord limit but ditched the retinue system or kept retinues but opened up recruitment I'd be fine with it (like anyone can recruit units, but commanders boost different unit types, and just having a blue commander would boost any archer units anywhere in their stack for example).

Making there be two cavalry commanders, two infantry commanders, and one "all the ranged units including artillery and also a.lot of unique effects" was probably a mistake, yes.

The retinue system doesn't also have to be tied to the color system.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

0.000% of Communism has been built.
Evil, child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit eating grin.

All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*.

Instead of building communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.





what do people dislike about the 3k ui?
I remember the game being confusing when it launched but ive been playing for so long I can't see it anymore

My issue with 3k is I like the building system where little modifiers add up to big numbers over your territory but feel that it could probably be massively simplified

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


This post is my semi-annual request for a mod that adds trade routes to the Southlands so I don't have to cut across the entire map in Mortal Empires

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



Communist Thoughts posted:

what do people dislike about the 3k ui?
I remember the game being confusing when it launched but ive been playing for so long I can't see it anymore

My issue with 3k is I like the building system where little modifiers add up to big numbers over your territory but feel that it could probably be massively simplified
I'm curious about this too. I bounced off 3K the first time I tried it but it wasnt because the UI was some awful boondoggle. I had a hard time adjusting from how some things are or work in TWWH in comparison but once I figured it out the game is amazing.

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009


Communist Thoughts posted:

what do people dislike about the 3k ui?
I remember the game being confusing when it launched but ive been playing for so long I can't see it anymore

My issue with 3k is I like the building system where little modifiers add up to big numbers over your territory but feel that it could probably be massively simplified

Just information overload. It's a good looking game but has more depth than the other TW games and I don't feel what is there is well explained. I've bounced off it a couple times

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh
one down.


I definitely struggled with the 3K UI, but I think it was just because it was different, not because it was worse. I had just as much trouble with every other 4X game's UI the first time, because it's telling me fifty things and I don't know what any of them mean at a glance yet. I think the more muted color palette makes it more visually pleasing but less distinct from an information design perspective.

But to be honest I also really struggled with 3K because I absolutely could not keep track of who anyone was, with all the unfamiliar-to-me names composed of two three-character-long names. The WH factions are obviously incredibly different because they are literally different species, but even within those races there's a lot more variation. All the Wood Elf LL's are super distinct, all the lizards are super distinct, even the elf donut is full of very distinct colors and faction names.

Whorelord
May 1, 2013

Jump into the well...



Communist Thoughts posted:

what do people dislike about the 3k ui?
I remember the game being confusing when it launched but ive been playing for so long I can't see it anymore

My issue with 3k is I like the building system where little modifiers add up to big numbers over your territory but feel that it could probably be massively simplified

it's been ages since i played the game and i've since refunded it, but this forums post lays out some objections that reading through that i agree with

https://forums.totalwar.com/discuss...-ui-even-better

I think in general it's just too dark and cluttered compared to Warhammer 2.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

0.000% of Communism has been built.
Evil, child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit eating grin.

All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*.

Instead of building communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.





i watched a bit of the 3k tv series on youtube beforehand and otherwise id have been totally lost. instead i was hyped to humiliate yuan shao (and at launch he was basically the final boss of every campaign)

Whorelord posted:

it's been ages since i played the game and i've since refunded it, but this forums post lays out some objections that reading through that i agree with

https://forums.totalwar.com/discuss...-ui-even-better

I think in general it's just too dark and cluttered compared to Warhammer 2.

agree with the tech tree(s) being crappy in 3k, i really like the circular healthbar icons in battle tho.
also the province browser which isnt shown in the link imo makes handling provinces super easy though tbf the fact i've never had to notice Ham2 also has a province browser probably speaks to the simplicity of the ham UI

the 3k UI does put things in odd places and make weird choices, like not being able to just click on who you want to do diplomacy with and instead having to scroll to find their name and click the button.
its a shame it obfuscates imo the best modern TW and a brilliant game. i'd recommmend TWHam to most people instead

e: in warhammer news, i just immediately disbanded the twin's caster because she's Beasts. yuck!

Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Apr 8, 2021

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





Be nice if magic got another pass to shore up weak spells or middling lores like beasts and high magic.

Sasgrillo
Apr 13, 2013


I hope they don't add more game 3 specific mechanics (rites, defensive buildings also providing army abilities during sieges, post-battle options) without also giving them to the game 1 and 2 races. I know it's relatively minor but some rites are turbo clutch and they definitely add a little something extra for you to spend dosh on. Same for Old World races still having hidden modifiers to post battle loot, raiding, sacking and replenishment. Why can't Empire, Dwarfs and Bretonnians also take on captives from different races?

I like that they ditched all of that garbage from game 2 races.

GolfHole
Feb 26, 2004



Go on sale you stupid game, I have DLC to buy.

Just Chamber
Feb 10, 2014

WE MUST RETURN TO THE DANCE! THE NIGHT IS OURS!



In WH2 does the enemy ever adapt to your army comp? So say for example I'm playing Throgg and I smash an Empire army with my army consisting of a ton of trolls will the next army they send after me be comprised of a bunch of anti large units? Or if I'm a massively infantry heavy army do they start hiring a ton of cav? It's not something I've ever really noticed or paid attention to but I think that would be really nice to have in future games.

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

I am the real hero here.




Nope, they just spam the best/cheapest unit they have access to, according to their economy. That's why Bretonnian armies are mostly peasant levies while High Elves come at you with 19 dragons.

Unrelated to that, here's a very cool mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2446465763

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


I believe the AI will consistently try to recruit the best units they have access to while recruiting, at least on higher difficulties. The reason you often see low-tier units especially during midgame is I believe because they don't really 'get' how to recruit - as a player you go to your most convenient place to get Good Troops and recruit there, but the AI will sometimes just start recruiting out in bumfuck nowheretown where their only region is T2 and fill up on garbage peasants rather than make the smart decision and start their new army somewhere that can get them Grail Knights or whatever.

I would guess this is also why AI Vampire Coast LLs often doomstack Necrofex Collossus, they always have access to ship buildings for recruiting and basically always gets that building eventually but are not particularly likely to get any other T5 recruitment building. So unlike most factions when they come back from death they always can get that one T5 unit and rarely any other T5 unit. Will work with non-LL captains too of course, but only if they can actually get the immortal trait.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




That's weird! I noticed the AI start open-palm slapping the "build trolls" button after I started building greatswords to counter black orc spam but I guess there's probably a better, dumber reason than a reactionary AI like that.

Nash
Jul 31, 2003

Sign my 'Bring Goldberg Back' Petition



Heck yes. I made my physical kit into a troglodon instead of a carnosaur and was very sad they didnít put it into the game.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


I mean, if the AI wanted to counter greatsword spam, it would've been fine sticking with blorcs. Greatswords are p drat bad for an iconic unit

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

toasterwarrior posted:

I mean, if the AI wanted to counter greatsword spam, it would've been fine sticking with blorcs. Greatswords are p drat bad for an iconic unit

Yeah I stuck with spearmen w/ shields for my front line in my last empire game because I figured they'd be better at holding the line for my cav / guns for the price. It was kind of annoying though because even with a lot of xp they'd get wiped out really easily in autoresolve. It'd be nice if Empire got a Silverin Guard-esque upgrade there.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




toasterwarrior posted:

Greatswords are p drat bad for an iconic unit

*mustache twirls in shock and anger before teleporting behind u and impaling you on a greatsword*

"Nothing personnel, son of sigmar"

litany of gulps
Jun 11, 2001



Fun Shoe

Randallteal posted:

It'd be nice if Empire got a Silverin Guard-esque upgrade there.

Well sir, you are in luck. Just capture Nordland and you can slowly recruit small numbers of perfect vigor halberdiers

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


jokes posted:

*mustache twirls in shock and anger before teleporting behind u and impaling you on a greatsword*

"Nothing personnel, son of sigmar"

Look man I want Greatswords to be good! But this ain't it!

Sasgrillo
Apr 13, 2013


A melee infantry unit without a shield or some kind of physical resist is practically worthless in a game where non-AP missiles can still mulch heavily armored units.

RIP notsoGreatswords

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers


Hard to find a better top of the wall anchor though!

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AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Hard to find a better top of the wall anchor though!
Melee units dont go on walls, though?!?

because its better to defend in the streets inside the city

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