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Sasgrillo
Apr 13, 2013


juggalo baby coffin posted:

what kind of currency do demons use?

khornecoin, its going straight to morrslieb fellow cultists, buy the dip!

the dawi zharr castellan-techbro e'lon muzk says its a good investment

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Babylon Astronaut
Apr 19, 2012


I didnt know about the whole "40k daemons are old world daemons" thing, so I'm actually excited to get some biomechanical monstrosities. It's an aesthetic that was lacking in the previous games.

I don't think such a mashup of tropes like WH has to worry about things that seem out of place, especially when chaos is by definition out of place, its streaming from another dimension outside of time and space ffs.

As long as it's vaguely fantasy I'm ok with it. I mean, at this point skaven is a ww2 faction, coast has age of sail firepower, tomb kings are from antiquity, lizardmen have sci-fi weapons and even the human factions have technology that varies from medieval to renaissance, sometimes in the same army.

Keeping a consistent time frame and bounded fantasy realism is a ship that has already sailed. I'd be cool with demons riding actual choppers as long as it looked cool. gently caress it, give us tyranids: aliens vs peasants is on par with the tone given.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


SteelMentor posted:

God I wish, dream game right there.

And if they manage to depict Slaanesh without all the weapons grade cringe of the Emperor's Children faction in Unification then I'll be pre-ordering in a nanosecond.



I'm curious to know how they're portrayed there if you're willing to share.

I really really want Slaanesh's trailer to drop and see my boy Sigvald away from Archeon's boot.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Babylon Astronaut posted:

I didnt know about the whole "40k daemons are old world daemons" thing, so I'm actually excited to get some biomechanical monstrosities. It's an aesthetic that was lacking in the previous games.

I don't think such a mashup of tropes like WH has to worry about things that seem out of place, especially when chaos is by definition out of place, its streaming from another dimension outside of time and space ffs.

As long as it's vaguely fantasy I'm ok with it. I mean, at this point skaven is a ww2 faction, coast has age of sail firepower, tomb kings are from antiquity, lizardmen have sci-fi weapons and even the human factions have technology that varies from medieval to renaissance, sometimes in the same army.

Keeping a consistent time frame and bounded fantasy realism is a ship that has already sailed. I'd be cool with demons riding actual choppers as long as it looked cool. gently caress it, give us tyranids: aliens vs peasants is on par with the tone given.

This was only really truly followed when they were first introduced. The idea being you could buy the same daemons and play them in both games (they did have separate rules though). They moved this apart when they realised this made Daemons of Chaos Super busted in both games.

Chaos in Fantasy has been separate from chaos in 40k for a long time, even if the named characters are the same. Notably, none of the really heavy machinery stuff from 40k is in Fantasy Battle, although Khorne still gets the brass stuff, although you could easily have it themed as steam/clockwork instead of full on machinery.

Ego-bot
Jul 8, 2007


juggalo baby coffin posted:

then gw tried to update one of the khorne ones for 40k and it looked really stupid like this:

and it was so stupid that forgeworld released a conversion kit to give it legs so it looked like this:

SteelMentor
Oct 15, 2012

TOXIC


Mans posted:

I'm curious to know how they're portrayed there if you're willing to share.



Imagine a teenager, the horniest goddamn teenager you can imagine. And just constantly they're screaming IM AN ADULT, LOOK AT HOW SEXY THIS IS again and again and again while crudely rigging up a naked idol to strap to the sides of the Baneblade model, taking extra care with each pixel of their crotch. There is not a word of that example I have exaggerated.

Between the constant eyerolling horniness, the absolutely abysmal on-click lines (I sure loving hope whoever they got to voice act the unit that was sprouting off "I'm not a trap! *nervous laughter" and "The Noise Marines aren't 'rapists' " got at least paid well) and the hilariously out of place anime waifu units ripped almost totally from Nier/Drakengard, it makes me absolutely regret that Slaanesh and by extension Emperor's Children et al are my favourite Chaos faction.

Oh, also Fallen Sisters are like half the faction. Though that's mostly a personal peeve because I'm just so tired of the fandom's obsession with Slaanesh Sisters of Battle and that one book character who hasn't appeared in nearly two decades.

Faction music choices are on point though. A good mix of goth synth stuff, punk tracks and chuggy metal.


Edit: I will give the mod this at least, they're not afraid of newer 40k stuff. Was quite pleasantly surprised to see they've made quite a lot of work on a bunch of new SoB units that haven't even released in person yet. Ultimate Apocalypse was absolutely scared of anything post-5th edition and way too fond of fanfiction units donut steel.


Lord_Magmar posted:

This was only really truly followed when they were first introduced. The idea being you could buy the same daemons and play them in both games (they did have separate rules though). They moved this apart when they realised this made Daemons of Chaos Super busted in both games.

Chaos in Fantasy has been separate from chaos in 40k for a long time, even if the named characters are the same. Notably, none of the really heavy machinery stuff from 40k is in Fantasy Battle, although Khorne still gets the brass stuff, although you could easily have it themed as steam/clockwork instead of full on machinery.

They're still largely the same outside the Daemon Engines, which are mostly the purview of Forge World and primarily pan-Chaos. The last few plastic releases for 40k Daemons have all been AoS Daemon stuff that you're expected to download a pdf rulesheet for.

New Be'lakor didn't even have points cost for 40k until the tournament/errata book released last weekend

SteelMentor fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jun 9, 2021

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


Jay Rust posted:

Is gun infantry just worthless when sieging or is there a trick to it?

one Neat Trick you can do is burst down the wall and then just shoot everyone through the mousehole you made, which is deceptively large. to memory the ai just stands there and takes it tho, so it's p cheesy

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Slaanesh is the most improved faction since AoS tbh. The "boobies boobies boobs and your boobs, lobster claw, maybe some forward-thinking conversion will make a dickboob" era sucked. Obviously the pleasure god would cover lust but now we finally get the gluttony and envy and so on that they were always described to have.

The one exception being the Emperor's Children in 40k. Also a great faction to disprove the chaos haters. You can't look at the demon space soldiers in purple and leopard-print who slay their enemies with the power of hair metal and tell me "hmm yes this is the faction for serious tryhard nerds only, they do not get that this is a setting for joke factions"

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jun 9, 2021

vandalism
Aug 4, 2003


Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Sounds like base-game mechanics were tripping you up, big overhauls like SFO are great if you are tired of the base game and want a fresh learning experience.

I am gonna turn it off and try again. Too much stuff going on. Yeah I have probably 60 hours now and I feel like I am just scratching the surface. This game is insane. I did however install the handsome vlad von Carstein mod and will be keeping that.

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?



Lord_Magmar posted:

This was only really truly followed when they were first introduced. The idea being you could buy the same daemons and play them in both games (they did have separate rules though). They moved this apart when they realised this made Daemons of Chaos Super busted in both games.

Chaos in Fantasy has been separate from chaos in 40k for a long time, even if the named characters are the same. Notably, none of the really heavy machinery stuff from 40k is in Fantasy Battle, although Khorne still gets the brass stuff, although you could easily have it themed as steam/clockwork instead of full on machinery.

the majority of demon engines are forgeworld stuff, but i think all the non-forgeworld demon engines have been both fantasy and 40k. like the soulgrinder looks incredibly 40k, but is statted for fantasy as well

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




The Soulgrinder is the example I think of where you could totally just re-do the legs a bit and it'd match the Steam Tanks/Chaos Dwarves/Dwarf technology level.

Cardboard Fox
Feb 8, 2009

[Tentatively Excited]


Well I missed a lot of Warhammer news. They are actually doing a Beastmen rework? I always believed it would happen one day.

Gonkish
May 19, 2004



Cardboard Fox posted:

Well I missed a lot of Warhammer news. They are actually doing a Beastmen rework? I always believed it would happen one day.

It's happening, and we're getting Taurox. Nature is healing.

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?



Lord_Magmar posted:

The Soulgrinder is the example I think of where you could totally just re-do the legs a bit and it'd match the Steam Tanks/Chaos Dwarves/Dwarf technology level.

i think the robo rhinos are in basically unaltered, and they have the same sort of tech look as the soulgrinder's legs

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

I am the real hero here.




I know Moonclaw would be hype as poo poo but I sorta wish we get Ghorros as FLC. Cavalry-focused Beastmen would be pretty fun.

Also RIP the Tetto'eko dream, I had faith in you buddy

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?



i would have preferred moonclaw or ghorros. i forget if i posted it here but i had an idea for a ghorros mechanic where he gathers different beers and depending on which binge you create for him, he gets a new unit of bastard offspring with different stats. maybe based on which area he gets drunk in also.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


juggalo baby coffin posted:

i would have preferred moonclaw or ghorros. i forget if i posted it here but i had an idea for a ghorros mechanic where he gathers different beers and depending on which binge you create for him, he gets a new unit of bastard offspring with different stats. maybe based on which area he gets drunk in also.

I like Taruox cause we get a Minotaur lord. Ghorros would be second place, but Moonclaw is just Morghur.

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?



MonsterEnvy posted:

I like Taruox cause we get a Minotaur lord. Ghorros would be second place, but Moonclaw is just Morghur.

moonclaw is a lot more enigmatic than morghur. he was born from a moon egg and he glows, and has a big insanity aura. he can cast lore of the wild and lore of shadows, has a special two headed mount, and can summon meteors of warpstone to smash people.

he also has a unique goal, which is smashing up the waystones around the world that the old ones left behind, which are what collect the warp energy spilling out of the warp gates and funnel it to the vortex to be turned into the winds of magic. it would give his campaign a unique focus.

edit: i do also like taurox too, and i think it would be hypocritical of me to complain that we got a monstrous lord instead of another normal sized guy on a mount. it will definitely be more fun to see him dive into crowds of soldiers than it would be to have moonclaw cast pit of shades, i meant more for the freelc lord (if we get one)

juggalo baby coffin fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jun 9, 2021

Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!


Making a model for a character whose only official art is shadowed because his appearance drives people to madness is certainly a unique challenge.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


juggalo baby coffin posted:

moonclaw is a lot more enigmatic than morghur. he was born from a moon egg and he glows, and has a big insanity aura. he can cast lore of the wild and lore of shadows, has a special two headed mount, and can summon meteors of warpstone to smash people.
\

Morghur also has the Insanity and mutating aura, and is also a weird immortal thing.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Dr Christmas posted:

Making a model for a character whose only official art is shadowed because his appearance drives people to madness is certainly a unique challenge.

just put him on an ice sled, that's driven plenty of fans to madness

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014




Hell Gem

Hoping one of Taurox's charge anims has him just leap up into the air and cannonball into dudes.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Why do randos from across the world, with a much lower strength ranking, love declaring war on you so much

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

SteelMentor posted:

Imagine a teenager, the horniest goddamn teenager you can imagine. And just constantly they're screaming IM AN ADULT, LOOK AT HOW SEXY THIS IS again and again and again while crudely rigging up a naked idol to strap to the sides of the Baneblade model, taking extra care with each pixel of their crotch. There is not a word of that example I have exaggerated.

Between the constant eyerolling horniness, the absolutely abysmal on-click lines (I sure loving hope whoever they got to voice act the unit that was sprouting off "I'm not a trap! *nervous laughter" and "The Noise Marines aren't 'rapists' " got at least paid well) and the hilariously out of place anime waifu units ripped almost totally from Nier/Drakengard, it makes me absolutely regret that Slaanesh and by extension Emperor's Children et al are my favourite Chaos faction.

Oh, also Fallen Sisters are like half the faction. Though that's mostly a personal peeve because I'm just so tired of the fandom's obsession with Slaanesh Sisters of Battle and that one book character who hasn't appeared in nearly two decades.

Faction music choices are on point though. A good mix of goth synth stuff, punk tracks and chuggy metal.


Edit: I will give the mod this at least, they're not afraid of newer 40k stuff. Was quite pleasantly surprised to see they've made quite a lot of work on a bunch of new SoB units that haven't even released in person yet. Ultimate Apocalypse was absolutely scared of anything post-5th edition and way too fond of fanfiction units donut steel.

In all fairness, Unification just combines existing mods to get as many factions as possible. It was another team who made the Emperor's Children as a standalone mod. They're the cringy sex-obsessed teenagers

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Jay Rust posted:

Why do randos from across the world, with a much lower strength ranking, love declaring war on you so much

In defense of the Total Hams AI, at least they're predictable, vs the older total wars where you'd get NON AGRRESSION PACT ACCEPT OR WE WILL ATTACK/SUE FOR PEACE/PONTUS IS BLOCKADING ME FOR SOME REASON.

It's pretty much entirely based on affinity bonuses or maluses and if you're, say, Ikit and want to send a warlock to Lustria to do your quest missions and make some undercities, every elf and lizard you pass will declare war as soon as you sight them. It's a bit harder to sus out if they'll beeline swarm you or get owned in their own dumb AI wars though.

TaintedBalance
Dec 21, 2006

hope, n: desire accompanied by expectation of or belief in fulfilment



Jay Rust posted:

Why do randos from across the world, with a much lower strength ranking, love declaring war on you so much

Anti-player bias is a hell of a drug. So is the whole factions being able to invite other factions to war. Which, I think is actually a cool feature, but the AI needs to be way more picky about if it is going to agree and then if it is actually going to commit to the action. I've had plenty of AI factions effectively off themselves because they send mad stacks at me from across the map and their home territory just gets ripped to shreds by whatever other AI is near them. You can also abuse this on purpose if you have contact with AI forces near the one that declared on you - wait about 5-8 turns (or if you have an agent, just wait and see) for them to move a bunch of armies a good distance from their own territory, then get someone next to them to declare on them and watch them die from attrition before they reach you.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


SteelMentor posted:

Imagine a teenager, the horniest goddamn teenager you can imagine. And just constantly they're screaming IM AN ADULT, LOOK AT HOW SEXY THIS IS again and again and again while crudely rigging up a naked idol to strap to the sides of the Baneblade model, taking extra care with each pixel of their crotch. There is not a word of that example I have exaggerated.

Between the constant eyerolling horniness, the absolutely abysmal on-click lines (I sure loving hope whoever they got to voice act the unit that was sprouting off "I'm not a trap! *nervous laughter" and "The Noise Marines aren't 'rapists' " got at least paid well) and the hilariously out of place anime waifu units ripped almost totally from Nier/Drakengard, it makes me absolutely regret that Slaanesh and by extension Emperor's Children et al are my favourite Chaos faction.

Oh, also Fallen Sisters are like half the faction. Though that's mostly a personal peeve because I'm just so tired of the fandom's obsession with Slaanesh Sisters of Battle and that one book character who hasn't appeared in nearly two decades.

Faction music choices are on point though. A good mix of goth synth stuff, punk tracks and chuggy metal.

That seems absolutely awful and hilarious at the same time. I don't know what it says about me that I'm now kinda interested in seeing it for myself


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

In defense of the Total Hams AI, at least they're predictable, vs the older total wars where you'd get NON AGRRESSION PACT ACCEPT OR WE WILL ATTACK/SUE FOR PEACE/PONTUS IS BLOCKADING ME FOR SOME REASON.
loving medieval 2. Trade deal, military alliance, royal marriage, saved their bacon twice.

And then they send a single boat to blockade my ports.

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013


Mans posted:

loving medieval 2. Trade deal, military alliance, royal marriage, saved their bacon twice.

And then they send a single boat to blockade my ports.

Ironically Medieval 2 AI would really fit Warhammer world, because every single faction in there was ruled by a insane, unpredictable psychopath who had unquenchable bloodthirst for war with every other faction, with no regards to strength difference, position or attempts at diplomacy.

Kazzah
Jul 15, 2011

Formerly known as
Krazyface


Hair Elf

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

In defense of the Total Hams AI, at least they're predictable, vs the older total wars where you'd get NON AGRRESSION PACT ACCEPT OR WE WILL ATTACK/SUE FOR PEACE/PONTUS IS BLOCKADING ME FOR SOME REASON.

The old games had perfectly predictable AI: if you had a border with them they'd attack you. Nothing to it.

Communist Walrus
Aug 31, 2001

I don't mind taking charity,
From those that I despise.



Started up a game as Khemri. A couple turns in I get a message that the Knights of Oriego have declared war on me at the behest of their good pals...the Top Knotz. The gently caress?

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006


Have you considered not attending the Captain's Career Course?



You can do the same thing to the AI and it's good way to make sure the AI also competes against itself and not just you. It's not that they're friends with orcs but the fact that they don't like you and didn't need much convincing to declare war. I think those Bretonnia factions are predisposed to disliking the Tomb Kings but I don't play either faction much.

You can do the same thing to the AI and it's a decent way at blunting an AI factions expansion.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


I was talsyn and after declaring war on Scourge of Khaine (still alive on turn 50 somehow) they were at war with yvresse and eataine and somehow still were able to get both of them to declare war on me.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Kazzah posted:

The old games had perfectly predictable AI: if you had a border with them they'd attack you. Nothing to it.

And the AI flipped a coin before every battle: heads they attack your troops, tails the AI breaks

Both sides are tails.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


When I was young playing my first total war game I thought something went wrong with my install because the AI was so braindead during the campaign suddenly.

Ghislaine of YOSPOS
Apr 19, 2020



stainless steel did a lot to make the medieval 2 AI better on both campaign and in battles. that was the gold standard for conversion mods back in the day. med 2 is still the best total war for making you get attached to random ahistorical generals. I still remember my severely mentally impaired prince with a limp, Charles, I tried over and over to get killed in the bloodiest engagements possible. the trait system and character page were better than minmaxing ancillaries.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion




Up Circle posted:

I was talsyn and after declaring war on Scourge of Khaine (still alive on turn 50 somehow) they were at war with yvresse and eataine and somehow still were able to get both of them to declare war on me.

Staying high up in the strength rankings is very important, most AI factions are very opportunistic.

Real Cool Catfish
Jun 6, 2011


Up Circle posted:

I was talsyn and after declaring war on Scourge of Khaine (still alive on turn 50 somehow) they were at war with yvresse and eataine and somehow still were able to get both of them to declare war on me.

Everyone hates wood elves.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:

stainless steel did a lot to make the medieval 2 AI better on both campaign and in battles. that was the gold standard for conversion mods back in the day. med 2 is still the best total war for making you get attached to random ahistorical generals. I still remember my severely mentally impaired prince with a limp, Charles, I tried over and over to get killed in the bloodiest engagements possible. the trait system and character page were better than minmaxing ancillaries.

Their speeches becoming more and more deranged as the battles destroy their brain was also amazing.

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon




I'd really like the trait system back from medieval 2.

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Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


I agree with the guy that said the engine in Warhammer 2 sucks. Some of the underground maps are just broken and hurt to look at, despite there being nothing wrong with the art or design of the maps. And do not under any circumstances turn on SSAO. The art of the game is amazing and it's a drat shame a lot of it is ruined by broken graphical effects.

The performance needs improvements too because the game can get below 20 fps on my 3080 if there are a lot of skavenslaves on screen.

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