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nopantsjack posted:the launch of sigmar and the turmoil in the fantasy thread was one of the funniest times in SA imo, similar to star citizen or whatever. I was eagerly awaiting Fantasy 9th edition. There were weird, unbelievable rumours but I ignored them and a GW rep said that no tabletop factions were going to be discontinued so I was confident and excited about the future... Then I was utterly stunned and brutally owned when I read the original draft AoS rules that GW published online. What. The gently caress? 6 pages?! Regiments are gone?! Fantasy space marines?! Then they published the legacy rules for all the old armies. Karl Franz was now a "Freeguild General on Griffon", what?The Empire was destroyed and it's 10,000 years in the future or something (whatever), but apparently this doesn't somehow count as discontinuing the faction according to GW. They also added a bunch of insulting bullshit about mustaches and talking to yourself for in-game bonuses to rub salt into the wound, making it obvious that the factions were totally discontinued. Then they put out some dreadful Black Library novels and ebooks which were hilarious garbage. I was really mad but it was also really funny when people started posting purple prose excerpts from the AoS novel in the fantasy thread. I want to go and find the quotes now because that poo poo was hilarious. All of the art was garbage, too. It varied from technically competent yet utterly dull to 1st year art student levels. And the naming conventions, the names! I got owned by a toy soldier company and I'm still butthurt about it.
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May 22, 2018 23:38
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Dramicus posted:It was the opposite, in one of the trailers the sisters of the thorn were shown riding side-saddle because CA was too lazy to make new animations. Gejnor posted:No they were riding side-saddle on Pegasuses, as did bretonnian ladies and uh.. why am i bringing this up again please forget i said anything no no don't read this forget you saw it please no! NO! N- Ohhh, because that's too ladylike for the characters. I think I missed that whole peaceful and justifiable discussion. nopantsjack posted:Its kinda a shame that it all died down cause it was really hilarious. Everybody was actually looking forward to a big overhaul cause fantasy was kinda hosed and it just kept getting worse with every detail. I wasn't too invested cause I hadn't played in ages but I was looking forward to it and... man it was just really funny. I never played Fantasy, but feel like I always heard it was cleaner/better-balanced than 40k. Was it just hosed in the same way? The inherent impossibility of balancing a game for a bunch of competitive grognards with 20+ armies that each have an entire BOOK of units/equipment, many of them dreamt up and arbitrarily-costed by whatever single person happened to working that day?
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May 22, 2018 23:41
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Avasculous posted:I never played Fantasy, but feel like I always heard it was cleaner/better-balanced than 40k. Was it just hosed in the same way? The inherent impossibility of balancing a game for a bunch of competitive grognards with 20+ armies that each have an entire BOOK of units/equipment, many of them dreamt up and arbitrarily-costed by whatever single person happened to working that day? Things were looking up before the end though with some solid supplement releases and new army books. Then the End Times hit. I was pretty hopeful for the first two books and thought a 9th edition was on the way. The return of Nagash promised a big bad other than chaos and some rules changes like combined statlines for mounts and their riders were welcome. Then everything went to poo poo in 3-5 and, well, here we are.
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May 22, 2018 23:49
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nopantsjack posted:what you think rolling 4 dice twice then handing the resultant dice to your opponent to save roll with the rend modifier is too much to account for for a single knight trying to hit someone with a lance? zzz zzzz... wait what? Sorry I fell asleep there when you got out your dice and official war rulerhammer. video games were the perfect setting for warhammer. the painted figures looked cool in stores at least. But May 31st needs to come already drat it.
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May 22, 2018 23:53
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best part of aos was gw changing all the names to ones they could copywrite. Love those aelfs and urks! But hey, i hear shadespire is p good
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May 23, 2018 00:07
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Fuligin posted:best part of aos was gw changing all the names to ones they could copywrite. Love those aelfs and urks! Skeletons being rattlebones is still my favourite.
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May 23, 2018 00:11
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Steam! Head! Duardins!!!
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May 23, 2018 00:19
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Why didn't they just call them Dawi, Asrai, Asur, etc? They had lore-friendly copyrighted names already.
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May 23, 2018 00:28
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Avasculous posted:Ohhh, because that's too ladylike for the characters. I think I missed that whole peaceful and justifiable discussion. both 40k and fantasy were hugely bloated games with just rules on rules on rules. If anything fantasy was known to have more rules, though 40k later caught up before the recent overhaul which makes it more like Sigmar afaik. The last time i played 40k I played a small casual game with a friend over beers where we didn't sweat the rules much and like every guy's rules are like: This unit has the Emperor's Chosen special rule. it wouldnt say what that was so you go to the front of the book and it says The Emperors Chosen rule grants this unit the Indominable and Savage Blow rules so youd go to a different book to look those up and one of them would say Savage Blow also makes this unit count as a Monstrous Creature and all its attacks are Rending. By the end we were both in hysterics and it would happen any time we did anything. I still quite liked fantasy though because units were blocks of guys and flanks mattered, the long, LONG games of rolling dice were broken up by things like fear-causing cavalry rear charging blocks of infantry and running them down instantly and there was crazy magic to contend with. Also the lore is cool. I think re: "The inherent impossibility of balancing a game for a bunch of competitive grognards with 20+ armies" the bigger issue is GW doesn't consider themselves a gaming company, they consider themselves a maker of models. Which is why people talk about "their collections" and "the hobby", that language is encouraged until very recently the rules were considered a value add to the models and even to this day armies are balanced based on making the new hotness the most powerful so everyone has to go out and buy it. Crazy sperg rules poo poo only I find interesting This also means they don't have much interest in making good games or even know how. It was back in the old fantasy thread when everyone was going insane over sigmar that it was pointed out how the rules have always been ... pretty nonsensical and waaay too much poo poo going on. If you look at Age of Sigmar, lets look at this guy and remember, these are the simplified rules, old 40k and fantasy had even more steps and resistance tables and poo poo. uber_stoat posted:hurr blurr derp So, for simplicity's (lol) sake lets say hes attacking another knight identical to himself. He has 2 attacks and first needs to roll 3+ (3 or higher) on a 6 sided die to hit for each attack so 66% chance overall, so on average its likely one attack will hit. If any attacks succeed he needs to roll to wound, so he rolls a 4+ so 50% chance, bringing the total chance down to 33% to deal 1 damage. Oh but wait, if he's attacking himself he has a 4+ save represneting his armour, he has -1 rend so that is reduced to a 5+ save which his opponent would roll, if he succeeds, nothing happens. Ultimately for each of the 2 attacks he makes with his lance there is a 22% that anything will happen and a 78% chance that nothing happens. We had 3 seperate tests with a minimum of 2 dicerolls and a maximum of 6 and in all liklihood nothing changed. We didn't even count his loving horse who has his own attack table (12.5% chance to deal damage per 2 attacks). Is there any reason this couldn't all be replaced by a single roll of a ten sided dice and you have to get higher than 9? Its this reason it takes SO long to play a game of warhammer. Most things in warhammer are very unlikely to happen and you have to make them likely either by: A) increasing the number of guys you buy in a unit which multiplies the amount of dice you have to roll, if you had 10 knights that would be a 220% chance! Do that but 10 times and an average 2 damage would get through, enough to kill a single knight since each of them has two wounds! B) buying extremely strong units (hope your faction has them) C) buffs (ditto) In traditional fantasy you had resistance tables, so a strong unit would be more likely to deal damage to a weaker one, thats not in sigmar though. A goblin is as likely to damage a skavenslave as he is a dragon. Instead sigmar has certain things deal "mortal wounds" which replace all that poo poo above with just rolling x number of dice and you deal that much damage. So they know that all that rolling is dumb, but they still have it in and the factions who have access to the best mortal wound abilities are just straight up superior. A dwarf cannon used to be mechanically distinct from skaven Warp Lightning, now one will deal 2d6 mortal wounds and one will deal 3d6 (I don't know this, but 99% of artillery and damage abilities are this last I checked) Uh sorry, this has gone on so long. tl;dr warhammer rules have always been terrible and the game has got worse as time went on. sigmar cut out a lot of stuff but kept the bad bits because games workshop are incapable/uncaring of distinguishing good rules from bad ones. Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 00:38 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 00:34
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uber_stoat posted:hurr blurr derp the underlined loving rules tho
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May 23, 2018 01:08
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Just going to throw out that GW has very much shifted away from not considering themselves a game company in recent years, to the point where they both run their own tournaments and are involved with the competitive scene in both the US and the U.K. The dumb stuff people keep posting from AoS is also not a thing anymore and by most accounts the game is actually pretty good these days- a couple of my local 40k players say they actually prefer AoS. I’ll probably jump in for second edition when it comes out in a few months. The company and the games they produce are very, very different from what they were just a few years ago.
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May 23, 2018 01:20
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Pendent posted:The company and the games they produce are very, very different from what they were just a few years ago. And as they blew up Warhammer Fantasy I will never buy a model or anything else from them again. Plus. loving Malekith as Phoenix King! Malekith! gently caress no.
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May 23, 2018 02:04
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Blinks77 posted:And as they blew up Warhammer Fantasy I will never buy a model or anything else from them again. If it's any consolation, Malekith becomes a trans dragon.
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May 23, 2018 02:26
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Blinks77 posted:And as they blew up Warhammer Fantasy I will never buy a model or anything else from them again. ...this was the only bit i liked of end times 
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May 23, 2018 02:30
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Dramicus posted:If it's any consolation, Malekith becomes a trans dragon. Oh my god you're not joking  
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May 23, 2018 02:31
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AoS is literally the worst, and it's all prompted by GW wanted to copyright EVERY loving WORD. Way to go, GW. Way. To. Go.
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May 23, 2018 03:24
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Morathi gets eaten by Slaanesh and turns into a big winged snake thing.
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May 23, 2018 03:35
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nopantsjack posted:...this was the only bit i liked of end times I am fine with the idea that he was supposed to get the throne. It is just that he has proven without a doubt to be one of the worst people in Warhammer.
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May 23, 2018 03:50
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This stuff people are posting from Age of Sigmar is all from the horrible start. The game and setting have actually started to improve with releases of cool short stories, better game rules and a new edition. They have also focused on making the setting more understandable, particularly for the new edition, which is going to explain it and along with adding world maps and such. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/12/new-edition-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-your-essential-guide-may12gw-homepage-post-3/ https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/12/your-intro-to-the-mortal-realms-may-12gw-homepage-post-4/ Here are the pretty good short stories https://malignportents.com/stories/ Also they no longer have any issues with poking fun at this own stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9daI6m4KsM However there are still many stupid names that I just ignore. Never going to call a dwarf a duradin. Speaking of Duradin Gotrek and Felix are coming back and Gotrek is voiced by Brian Blessed. Dramicus posted:If it's any consolation, Malekith becomes a trans dragon. He is also evil again and plotting with his mother to take over everything. Also they appear to be bringing back Fantasy in a new project called Warhammer Legends. Only the Dark Elves have been done so far however. And I think if they released a cool book for it both games could exist alongside each other. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:20 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 04:11
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Morathi gets eaten by Slaanesh and turns into a big winged snake thing. I have no issue with that she has a cool new model. 
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May 23, 2018 04:17
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nopantsjack posted:
Yeah, I remember this bit from when I tried 40k 15 years ago. The parts that made it even worse in 40k (and probably Fantasy too?) were that: -The to-hit number has to be recalculated each time based on the unit's accuracy, range, ability modifiers, and possibly even the way they're firing their gun. -The to-wound number also has to be calculated each time from the strength of the weapon and the toughness of the target. -A single squad will often have characters with multiple different weapons/stats (and numbers for all of the above). -Large enough squads with rapid-fire guns could start the above process with 20-40 dice for a single attack, and large armies would have several squads firing every turn. nopantsjack posted:
IIRC, this is exactly how Warmachine works. You roll 2-3 dice for a single attack and if it hits, you roll one dice for location (to war machines only), and then it does a set amount of damage and you move on with your lives. My favorite system I read about though was in Malifaux, which may be an awful game, I never actually tried it. In place of rolling dice, players draw cards from a standard deck of cards and use the value. This basically ensures that you can expect a relatively even distribution of good and bad 'rolls' over the course of a game, but individual ones are still random-ish.
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May 23, 2018 04:27
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So how many Sigmarines do you get for the price of TWH2 or even better, how many for the upcoming DLC?
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May 23, 2018 04:34
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Cardiac posted:So how many Sigmarines do you get for the price of TWH2 or even better, how many for the upcoming DLC? I was just browsing through their website. The price of TWH2 gets you almost half of this guy: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Great-Unclean-One-2018 Edit: or about 5 Sigmarines if I'm looking at the right ones.
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May 23, 2018 04:37
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Avasculous posted:I was just browsing through their website. The price of TWH2 gets you almost half of this guy: 5 melee Sigmarines or 10 ranged Sigmarines for a tad more.
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May 23, 2018 04:46
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MonsterEnvy posted:Also they appear to be bringing back Fantasy in a new project called Warhammer Legends. Only the Dark Elves have been done so far however. And I think if they released a cool book for it both games could exist alongside each other.  No, they're not. All Warhammer Legends is is a made-to-order program for old WHFB models. They're making AoS rules for them which isn't anything close to bringing back WHFB.At this point they could bring back WHFB as its own thing. I mean, they're still selling most of the old legacy models barring Tomb Kings and Bretonnia, it would just require a ruleset. AoS is differentiated enough by now with its own releases that it would still be its own distinct game without those models if they decided to go that route. An alternate future/universe like Blood Bowl, maybe. They'd have to actually support a new edition instead of just squeezing something out and letting it wither like they did with 8th. The design studio already seems pretty stretched so I'd be hesitant about their capability to do so while balancing a relatively new edition of 40k and an upcoming edition of AoS. It would also dilute their product lines further so I don't see it happening any time soon.
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May 23, 2018 04:52
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Hunt11 posted:I am fine with the idea that he was supposed to get the throne. It is just that he has proven without a doubt to be one of the worst people in Warhammer. He is the rightful leader of the elves (all elves are bad, some just lied about it)
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May 23, 2018 04:56
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Safety Factor posted:
They have made some comments that they are making a Warhammer Legends book with point values. (And possibly spell lores and Alligence abilities for WHFB armies.) It's compatible with Age of Sigmar but won't be updated regularly or intended for Age of Sigmar Match Play. Along with Made to Order programs for some old models.
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May 23, 2018 05:07
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I've bought both games on launch and have bought all the DLC and it cost me less than my Tomb Kings army that I had. Also I had a TK army and you can bet your rear end I'm annoyed that they don't exist as independent spooky-but-not-evil skeletons.
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May 23, 2018 05:10
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How many old players of WHFB who left in disgust over AoS are actually going to come back? I've gotten the impression most have either just completely ignored GW these and continued on playing 8th edition independently, or moved over to that fan continuation - The 9th Age. Because people can go on and on about how the rules have gotten much better, but it doesn't matter. Even aside from the setting annihilation, the utter mess that was the launch of AoS means a huge chunk of their previous playerbase just flat out left in disgust. You don't just magically get that back.
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May 23, 2018 05:18
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Both games and all DLC, not on sale and including Blood and the upcoming Queen&Crone cost $222 That will just barely get you a starting army of the faction of your choice. Provided you play at relatively low points values and don't need to buy too many model accessories such as paint or glue
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May 23, 2018 05:19
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With this warhammer legends are they bringing back Alarielle the Radiant and a handmaiden I can buy? Cause if so I might give gw money. 
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May 23, 2018 05:41
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Eimi posted:With this warhammer legends are they bringing back Alarielle the Radiant and a handmaiden I can buy? Cause if so I might give gw money. When they get to the High Elf chunk. Probably. So far they have only done Dark Elves.
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May 23, 2018 05:58
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Heres another "holy poo poo is this an actual screenshot or loving art?" picture: 
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May 23, 2018 06:00
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Avasculous posted:I was just browsing through their website. The price of TWH2 gets you almost half of this guy: Isn’t that model 20 years old by now, cause I remember something like it being released around when I quit tabletop? Also, TWH1 and 2 are great cause I get to play all factions in a TW game for a pittance of the cost and I also get to avoid meeting GW players.
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May 23, 2018 06:25
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Cardiac posted:Also, TWH1 and 2 are great cause I get to play all factions in a TW game for a pittance of the cost and I also get to avoid meeting GW players. Also I don't have to make sound effects with my mouth while I bang the models up against each other.
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May 23, 2018 06:27
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Dramicus posted:Also I don't have to make sound effects with my mouth while I bang the models up against each other. Wait, you don't make laser sounds with your mouth when casting spells in TWW? Weird
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May 23, 2018 06:35
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Cardiac posted:Isn’t that model 20 years old by now, cause I remember something like it being released around when I quit tabletop? No, that model came out last year. The one you're thinking of is considerably smaller.
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May 23, 2018 06:46
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Kaza42 posted:Wait, you don't make laser sounds with your mouth when casting spells in TWW? Weird I make whooshing sounds when I order Karl Franz to swoop down from the skies and I whisper-yell something about Sigmar.
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May 23, 2018 06:51
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Dramicus posted:Also I don't have to make sound effects with my mouth while I bang the models up against each other. You seem to be missing out... I sing the rats song constantly when launching giant green globs. Sometimes as Franz I get confused and say for aiur, but it's cool, he can be an honorary protoss.
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May 23, 2018 07:04
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Lord Koth posted:Because people can go on and on about how the rules have gotten much better, but it doesn't matter. Even aside from the setting annihilation, the utter mess that was the launch of AoS means a huge chunk of their previous playerbase just flat out left in disgust. You don't just magically get that back. Yeah, but the natural progression of GW customers is to grow up and discover booze girls and deodorant, they're used to turning over their player base quite regularly
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May 23, 2018 08:18
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