|
Hunt11 posted:Clan Eshin is already out though. So was Norsca.
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 23:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:18 |
|
|
Zedhe Khoja posted:Yeah they have good/bad things (gently caress the newer 4daEVULZ lore) but even the good aspects of Slaanesh don't really have anything to do with love. It's art, aesthetics, prowess etc. The gods haven't change at all since their first appearance in the Realm of Chaos source books in 1990, with vast majority of subsequent material copying text from those source books verbatim. The 'original lore' is literally a collective delusion passed from fan to fan based on nothing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 23:35
|
|
|
Nurgle is whoever you need him to be guys.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 23:36
|
|
|
ZeusJupitar posted:The gods haven't change at all since their first appearance in the Realm of Chaos source books in 1990, with vast majority of subsequent material copying text from those source books verbatim. The 'original lore' is literally a collective delusion passed from fan to fan based on nothing. yeah but, my dude, the chaos gods are also very literally the product of that mass belief, both in 40k and in real life
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
the traditional pairings of enemies are khorne vs slaanesh (repressed gay vs liberated gay) and nurgle vs tzeentch (slob gay vs theatre gay) them doing tzeentch vs cathay is weird cause one of the only pieces of lore about cathay is that they have a semi-open tzeentchite religion in their society. maybe now that chaos has invaded theyve gone all fifth column though
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:the traditional pairings of enemies are khorne vs slaanesh (repressed gay vs liberated gay) and nurgle vs tzeentch (slob gay vs theatre gay) More likely that part of the lore has just been excised entirely now that Cathay are getting a full write up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 00:21
|
|
|
ZeusJupitar posted:The gods haven't change at all since their first appearance in the Realm of Chaos source books in 1990, with vast majority of subsequent material copying text from those source books verbatim. The 'original lore' is literally a collective delusion passed from fan to fan based on nothing. Tome of Corruption is 15 years old. Plenty old to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 00:31
|
|
|
Zedhe Khoja posted:Tome of Corruption is 15 years old. Plenty old to me. The Chaos Gods having good aspects can be an interesting concept (which why Warhammer fans always bring it up). But it never has been an idea GW adopted and made a fixed part of the lore. Chaos is the same as it's always been: Boring monsters that go "grrr, I'm evil".
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 01:12
|
|
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:them doing tzeentch vs cathay is weird cause one of the only pieces of lore about cathay is that they have a semi-open tzeentchite religion in their society. maybe now that chaos has invaded theyve gone all fifth column though If they didn't just chuck that lore in the bin, this seems to be a pretty easy gimme. You could even have a DLC pack with a Cathay/Tzeentch hybrid roster led by some Cathayan high priest of tzeentch dickhead who wants to overthrow the kingdom in the name of Chaos.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 01:39
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:I’m the same way as the poster you quoted except I have played multiple Skaven campaigns, enough to confirm that I strongly dislike them and I like Ikit even less. I despise Ikit for the same reason I despise Sisters of Twilight. Broke rear end power curve LLs like that that are not only extremely overpowered but being extremely overpowered involves stacking the units that involve the least actual gameplay possible? Noooo thanks. I understand that these are all words in the English language. The sequence of them makes no sense to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
Kanos posted:If they didn't just chuck that lore in the bin, this seems to be a pretty easy gimme. You could even have a DLC pack with a Cathay/Tzeentch hybrid roster led by some Cathayan high priest of tzeentch dickhead who wants to overthrow the kingdom in the name of Chaos. this would rule. i hope they keep that lore
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 02:15
|
|
|
Alright, now that Cathay is fleshed out let's complain enough so that they do Ind. So if we go by precedent we need a massive corporate restructuring of GW and then blowing up of the setting.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
I still want Araby first. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 02:22
|
|
|
Yeah, Cathay combines a lot of things that I like: Spear lines Giant monsters Gunpowder loving everywhere Strong magic Basically going to be the faction I play first.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 02:37
|
|
|
Raygereio posted:Tome of Corruption is also the only source that I can recall in Warhammer Fantasy for that. In 40K it's only mentioned in a Rogue Trader book. It's been on and off in the RPGs, which are all "canon" to an extent. It's also the basic explanation for why people fall that isn't just stupid awfulness evil bad guy. Road to hell and good intentions and all that. Nurgle loves his followers, but his actual deal is despair/acceptance. To know that things aren't changing, so you might as well be happy where you are. Slaanesh is "love" in that to follow Slaanesh is to love sensation, to desire more of everything and anything, to chase that next high, it's love without limits, maddening love, nightmarish love. Loving something or someone with all your heart and soul until it consumes you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 03:13
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:It's been on and off in the RPGs, which are all "canon" to an extent. It's also the basic explanation for why people fall that isn't just stupid awfulness evil bad guy. Road to hell and good intentions and all that. To both expound on and consolidate this, it really depends on the given book and author. People with good taste latch onto what the better writers and idea-havers have done with the portfolios, while a lot of it has been overwhelmed by the worst of the writers and the even more terrible fanbase.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 03:27
|
|
|
Nurgle smokes weed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 04:00
|
|
|
Jamwad Hilder posted:Now all they need to add is Lu Bu. They would have to properly Warhammer him up like Marco Colombo and call him something like Bu Lu or Boo Louie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 04:12
|
|
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:the traditional pairings of enemies are khorne vs slaanesh (repressed gay vs liberated gay) and nurgle vs tzeentch (slob gay vs theatre gay) I mean traditionally the only OTHER piece of lore is tamurkhan's tzeentch minion leading off an expedition against cathay so even with the semi open tzeentchite religion that didn't seem to particularly protect against tzeentch invasion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 05:05
|
|
|
Luis Buis.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 05:42
|
|
|
Fuckin mighty morphin storm dragon versus a two-headed chicken mage. The sheer, stupid, ridiculous nature of it all just... works.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 05:58
|
|
|
Warhammer will grow Chiner
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 06:01
|
|
|
I’ve been wondering about what the map will look like. I assume CA wants to have varying starting positions within each race, and a place for every race of the previous two games. One of the Cathay LLs rules the “northern provinces” and another rules epithet western ones. Cathay is probably big enough that that counts. Tsarina will start in the city of Kislev, and I think they showed Rasputin slightly to the southwest. What piques my curiosity is inevitable future DLC, where they’ll “have” to add a new Kislev LL somewhere else. Kislev is small compared to a lot of other powers and I’m unaware of it projecting its power elsewhere. Maybe the equivalent of Siberia, but it seems to turn into hostile Kurgan land very quick as you head east of Kislev. Man, if they add Chaos Dwarves, what are their starting positions outside the Darklands? If Khorne is menacing Kislev from the Wastes and Tzeentch is assaulting the Bastion from Cathay’s North, where are Slaanesh and Nurgle coming from? Maybe a sweltering jungle is a good thematic place for Nurgle to come from, which could be all along the southern “Asia.” I think Slaanesh conquered Ind in the End Times, so maybe they’re there partaking in all the pleasures old racist brits imagined India to have, leaving Khuresh for Nurgle. Kurgan and Hung lands will probably be inhabited by “Norse.” Depending on how far south and west the map stretches, you can fit a lot of TWW1 races on the edge of the map, probably everyone except Brettonia and Wood Elves. They could fit Tomb Kings down in the southwest corner if the map contains the part of the Southlands that’s cut off in the Vortex but present in Mortal Empires. You could make up a Wood Elf enclave somewhere like the did for Twisted and the Twilight, but Brettonia is harder to place. They’ll probably be doing a colonialism somewhere. Lizardmen could be in Khuresh, where there’s the Lost City of the Old Ones, or the Dragon Isles off the west coast of Ind where Malus has his Mortal Empires start. High Elves have island colonies by Ind and Khuresh. Lokhir has a history of sacking a temple in Ind, so that’s a possible start for Dark Elves. Vampirates could be hanging out on just about any island. Skaven are endemic everywhere. So Ind is probably going to be colonized to hell. Maybe by Brettonians with nowhere else to go, like Arabay. But as long as we’re dreaming big, what era of history could they to draw from for their army? To have thousands of years of culture in the Warhammer world, you have to be able to defend yourself from a random Waaagh! From the world maps I’ve seen, they could dodge the whole Ind issue by just not stretching the map that far south from where it is in Mortal Empires, which would be a shame. It would cut off most of Ind while keeping the Darklands and Mountains of Mourn. If felt weird having more territory to fight over in Naggaroth that, Lustria, with Lustria having a whole game book to itself. Mortal Empires 2 also provides new possible starting positions for older LLs, they could de-Thunderdrome-ify Lustria and the Southlands by moving some people, like Lokhir to Ind or Snikch to Nippon. A big, detailed world map means they’re going to have to decide what the Great Maw actually looks like, which will be fun!
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 06:53
|
|
|
Dr Christmas posted:One of the Cathay LLs rules the “northern provinces” and another rules epithet western ones. Cathay is probably big enough that that counts. Tsarina will start in the city of Kislev, and I think they showed Rasputin slightly to the southwest. What piques my curiosity is inevitable future DLC, where they’ll “have” to add a new Kislev LL somewhere else. Kislev is small compared to a lot of other powers and I’m unaware of it projecting its power elsewhere. Maybe the equivalent of Siberia, but it seems to turn into hostile Kurgan land very quick as you head east of Kislev. So specifically to this point, the Old World lore has soft-retconned an extension of Kislev past the World's Edge mountains (basically slicing off the tip of the Darklands triangle). Plus you can shove Boris into the Chaos Wastes, and there's probably a way to handwave some guy getting loving lost in Ind or something. It's no weirder than Khatep starting in Naggaroth. I expect that Cathay proper will be plenty large enough to fit as many LLs as you'd want (presumably the lords of the eastern and southern provinces). It could (and debatably should) be a third of the map all by itself. Like the Empire/Brettonia it should be a lot of semi-independent realms of the same in-game culture, but with various weird enclaves of potential allies/enemies. The Kislev leaders will probably be a lot more spread out, but also more isolated and generally unsupported by minors of their culture. IIRC Katarin's faction is already known to be "Katarin's Expedition" meaning that it's likely to already not be located in what's considered Kislev proper. As far as the rest... I think the primary Chaos God factions will start either off-map in their own personal thunderdome, or have some type of game mechanic limitation forcing them to stay in the Chaos Wastes. In the latter case they'll probably just be strung out arbitrarily along the northern border. I think most of the existing races will be pretty easy to add in somewhere; it's really just a function of how far west the map goes. The Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings might be hard to fit if the map doesn't stretch into their traditional lands. The Empire and Bretonnia are likely to only be a token representation of one or two trading colonies, at least to start with. I believe that just about everyone else should have a significant presence no matter what, as marauding armies if nothing else (i.e. Vampire Coast).
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 07:26
|
|
|
Dr Christmas posted:Theorycrafting about the map and spawn points I have zero concern with the map and spawn points, even at the start. CA has been more than willing to do completely insane poo poo with starting positions and making them work based on what is around them at the time they are placed. I'd be more concerned with what the DLCs will do to the map and new lord spawns in terms of how it can heavily effect the previous meta. I think most of these have generally been good, but there are definitely ones that RADICALLY changed some LLs. Hell, even some of the just moving around old lords. Azhag's new place up north signficantly changed up how poo poo can go down up there and the psycho dryad - and the WE update in general honestly - COMPLETELY changed how that area works. And that's not to say I think they are bad at it or anything, just that its a really complex thing that takes time to soak in and determine how good it is as an overall package and how it adjusts a lot of relative meta/tier rankings. CA coming up with the reason why someone is in a place for lore is no problem, but meta is...harder.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 08:04
|
|
|
orangelex44 posted:So specifically to this point, the Old World lore has soft-retconned an extension of Kislev past the World's Edge mountains (basically slicing off the tip of the Darklands triangle). Plus you can shove Boris into the Chaos Wastes, and there's probably a way to handwave some guy getting loving lost in Ind or something. It's no weirder than Khatep starting in Naggaroth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 08:14
|
|
|
Or the Sisters of Twilight suddenly leading a wood elf faction in Naggaroth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 08:42
|
|
|
The Real question is will they end up Vampire-coasting Ind a year after release.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 09:25
|
|
|
Ra Ra Rasputin posted:The Real question is will they end up Vampire-coasting Ind a year after release. We can only hope. The Warhammer 3 Map will most likely exclude Ind anyways, as well as southern and eastern Cathay. Which makes me even more curious what the Immortal Empires map looks like.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 09:29
|
|
|
a group of dwarves in a mountain in the middle of cathay. the only explanation is "well it's a mountain, isn't it?" all of them slam their tankards on the table. the only warhammer lore you ned
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 09:37
|
|
|
Why only two legendary lords for Cathay? I thought they said all factions would get four out the gate from now on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 09:48
|
|
|
Jarvisi posted:Why only two legendary lords for Cathay? I thought they said all factions would get four out the gate from now on. All DLC Factions will, but in terms of an entirely new game they're putting 9 lords in already, and they want Lords for later DLC.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 09:52
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:a group of dwarves in a mountain in the middle of cathay.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 09:59
|
|
|
Zephro posted:Definitely no weirder than having Thorek start in a lost hold that the dorfs have been looking for for 2,000 years or whatever and whose whole point is it was never found. They can start anyone anywhere with only a little creativity. Let's also not forget that more than half the lords are dead in the current time line so ain't no one start bitching about it's not following lore for someone who's been dead for 1000 years starting somewhere weird. I think chaos is gonna start in their own little map, i don't think the realms of chaos will actually be normal cities and provinces.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 10:05
|
|
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:im very glad they went with the dragon emperor being a literal dragon. its a very cool angle to pursue because not much has been done with the dragons. theyre the only species, along with the dragon ogres, who pre-date the old ones and their meddling, so its neat to have powerful characters who are that extremely ancient and cool. Didn't the Fimir have a powerful empire before the Old Ones came?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 10:29
|
|
|
Arghy posted:Let's also not forget that more than half the lords are dead in the current time line so ain't no one start bitching about it's not following lore for someone who's been dead for 1000 years starting somewhere weird. I think chaos is gonna start in their own little map, i don't think the realms of chaos will actually be normal cities and provinces. Who's dead in the current timeline? I'm just curious, I have zero exposure to Warhammer outside of the Total War games (and sometimes browsing the wiki when I'm interested in something).
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 10:37
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Who's dead in the current timeline? I'm just curious, I have zero exposure to Warhammer outside of the Total War games (and sometimes browsing the wiki when I'm interested in something). Azhag, Grom and Repanse are the big ones, I think.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 10:47
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:Azhag, Grom and Repanse are the big ones, I think. Vlad and Isabella too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 10:51
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Vlad and Isabella too. Oh yeah, I always forget those, since I think they were resurrected or something for End Times?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 11:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:18 |
|
|
Volkmar and Morghur should be dead as well iirc.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2021 11:28
|
|