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Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Elukka posted:

He's a series of elves, one altered into Orion each year.

that's gotta be really, really inconvenient when you're on campaign half a world away.

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Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

THE BAR posted:

I'm looking forward to the new mechanics, but the map size is already unreasonable for the kind of game they're making. Ever tried the full coop campaign? May as well be a world conquest.

My last High Elves ME campaign dragged out for an extra 100 turns because Malekith somehow encountered and confederated whatever new DE faction is on the far Eastern edge of the map. That one ended up with me controlling about 3/4 of the world, so, yeah. A little more focus could be nice!

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.


this is incredibly dope

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

speaking of fantasy / 40k connections, is Cathay meant to be in some way analogous to the Tau? or are they both just Vaguely Eastern™?

because gently caress i love me some tau

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

SteelMentor posted:

I could whip up some quick descriptions of any of the AoS units in the post above and if they're likely to make it over into TWW3 if anyone's interested in a particular unit of weirdos.

i'm interested in this in general because, goddamn if the warhammer wiki isn't completely unreadable. folks were talking about Nagash hurting the chaos gods earlier and i could barely make it thu 2 paragraphs of his entry. something a little more plainspoken would be quite welcome.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

yeah I've never understood the skepticism about TW:40k, since DoW 2 had a huge amount of melee in it and, as mentioned, the Skaven gatling guns and Empire steam tanks already set the stage for the kinds of units 40k would need.

that said, DoW 1 and 2 are the full extent of my 40k exposure. i'm sure cover mechanics are important in the tabletop but they don't seem like they're essential from a setting perspective--it's still gonna be more Total War than it is gonna be tabletop.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Eej posted:

The latest edition of 40k has undergone a points increase across the board which leads to smaller armies (and less money spent on models! or maybe just makes you spend more because new armies are slightly cheaper) and a focus on taking and holding objectives to win games instead of wipe your enemy off the board. So yes, in a strange twist of fate 40k in 2021 has ended up exactly like Dawn of War 2 in 2009 with (relatively) small armies skirmishing over holding objective points on the map. I'm sure you could make it work but I don't know how compelling it would be to order like 50-70 Marines around in a Total War game.

e: on the other hand Epic would work and you could have tons of little marines to order around with Titans stomping around

approximately as compelling as ordering 70 Kroxigors around, I'd think, which is to say pretty compelling

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

By the time WH3's lifecycle is winding down, GW's The Old World will probably be fully released and alive. They could make Total War: Warhammer: The Old World (TWWHTOW).

:same:

succinctly, what is the difference between "fantasy" and "the old world" and "age of sigmar"? they all seem like they're 95% the same with slightly different timelines and aesthetics, is that it?

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Electronico6 posted:

Fantasy is the original, Age of Sigmar is the Michael Bay remake, The Old World is the "faithful" reboot.

orangelex44 posted:

"Fantasy" and "The Old World" are basically exactly this - with the caveat that The Old World still has a lot of question marks right now, not much has been released. It's a prequel to "Fantasy". "Age of Sigmar" is what you get when the company wants to do a full story reboot but also realizes they need to let people who spent thousands on older models continue to play with them in official events - from a story perspective it happens after "Fantasy", but a bunch of pretty random poo poo happened it between. The "Age of Sigmar" shares certain characters and themes, but it really could have been a brand-new setting with very few changes. However, when it comes to models/units a lot of the "Fantasy" stuff was grandfathered in, although support for that has been on the decline as Games Workshop pushes people to buy newer models. The proper "Age of Sigmar" units tend to have a pretty different aesthetic from "Fantasy".

From a tabletop gameplay perspective, I have no idea. My dim understanding is that "Age of Sigmar" was a more substantial change than just an edition update would have been, but I might be wrong. Jury's out on "The Old World", they haven't released anything about how it'll actually work yet.

i appreciate both of these explanations, and all the others in between.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I disagree. Bland mustachio'd european men who are exactly like irl european men are boring as gently caress even when they exist in a fantasy world and have a different Jesus. The only good parts of the Empire are the wacky bits like Nuln and the Colleges of Magic. I want to see dwarfs and elves and dinosaurs and arthurian knights smashing trolls and daemons and technovikings and hippy goblins. Karl Franz and Kruber and whoever else can gently caress off, I don't care about them. They're boring. If I wanted them I'd go read about the actual Thirty Years War.

hard seconded. "normal guys facing cosmic horrors" is maybe interesting when the guys are actually characters, but when it's at the total war scale, it's just a boring army fighting an exciting one when it could be TWO exciting armies duking it out.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Sasgrillo posted:

Also I'm probably making myself see things but the map in the trailer looks rectangular, with Cathay being the upper right corner and the realms of Chaos making up the northern edge. I'm very interested in seeing how the ME map will change assuming they're even keeping it for game 3.

would LOVE to see a pole-centric projection like this one upthread:

NewMars posted:

The thing is that the realm of chaos and the chaos wastes are in a very real sense not different things. Past a certain point up there, reality just breaks, progressively as you get closer to the pole. The distinction between the two is nonexistent: pockets of artic landscapes coexist with lush jungles and anything you can think of.



Mind you, the chaos wastes is a very, very big area by itself.

either that, or make the map an actual 3-d globe that rotates as you navigate it. dealing with the lovely stretching of a Mercator-style projection is gonna be real important if the pole's a goal.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

I haven't played much Three Kingdoms but it seemed like the sieges there were WAY better. non-walled cities still had an encampment structure instead of just being a regular wilderness map, and cities have (at least early on) a bunch of fully-impassable walls but no gates, and pretty detailed interior geography that the AI seemd to handle well.

On Chaos God stuff: I know the DND alignment axis is weird and dumb, but it's always struck me, especially in 40k, that it's all about order vs. chaos, but everybody is at the "evil" end of the good-evil spectrum. It seems like pretty much every faction is a genocidal racial supremacist?

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Log082 posted:

There actually is a mod that allows for upgrades when units reach a certain amount of veterancy! It's pretty neat.

That sounds dope, and would make a lot of sense for lots of the basic units. It would be really nice to be able to, say, upgrade shield-less seaguard to the shielded versions, skink javelins to skirmishers, etc.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Archonex posted:

You'd think he'd realize that he'd win more supporters if he had used that enhanced intelligence to petition some of the other factions like the Border Kingdoms into his crusade against the Chaos Dwarfs.

Then again, that ain't krumpin.

now i'm envisioning a master debater Orc, into intellectual and emotional krumpin'. you know, a FYAD poster.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Sasgrillo posted:

Is the AR broken again? I had a Level 40 Kroq Gar and his Stegadon doomstack go up against an unoccupied Tier 2 Skaven settlement and it was split nearly 55-45 in my favor. Or is it just lolskaven?

are you talking about the preview, or the actual result? i think the preview bar still gives weird-looking results when it's a very numerically small force vs. a very numerically larger one, and if you've got an army that's just 1 dude and 19 dinos, it might be triggering that weirdness.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

my big feature hope for WHIII is that they make the "speech" slider in sound options actually affect speech other than the loving advisor. the incoherent screams of my saurus generals are starting to get a little boring.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

let me save my campaign camera speed preferences between campaigns, cowards!

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.


thank you!

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

just finished my first ever Tomb Kings campaign, in Vortex. i think this was my favorite campaign so far, largely because it was so much shorter than the others i've played, and Settra barely even needs to leave the starting continent. also something very fun about sending multiple armies to die fruitlessly against an enemy and just regrow them for free over a few turns.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Arcsquad12 posted:

I never liked how Mark of Chaos and Age of Reckoning both tried to make Chaos and Greenskins allies.

lol that was also my main thought on seeing that trailer. "why were there goblins in there?"

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Collapsing Farts posted:

Yeah Orks are way more chaotic. Also more fun. And way cooler. They never really get to be the main villains though, that always seems to be Chaos

I hope the fantasy orcs get some more love as well. They didn't really get any cool stuff in Age of Sigmar. I'd like to see them get more cool stuff like the Rogue Idol and weird Squigmonster variants

Orks are one of just 3 playable races in DoW III!

But then again, as we all know DoW III doesn't actually exist, so that doesn't count for much.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.


:xcom:

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Cythereal posted:

I'm pretty sure the Imperial Guard are. Hordes of expendable chaff backed up by powerful war machines, artillery, and unreliable weapons that may fry their owners, all backed by a civilization of turboNazis who have zero regard for anyone's lives but their own and live in a society characterized by relentless ambition and backstabbing.

and that LOVE to destroy worlds on behalf of their definitely-not-a-chaos-God

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Communist Thoughts posted:

I'm disappointed by how many TW warhammer characters just have shouty deep voices cause I always imagined malekith in particular to have a high pitched nerd whine

at least Tyrion is extremely whiny and overwrought!

Malekith's voice i always put down to the whole "face burned off" thing.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Sasgrillo posted:

It's definitely a YMMV situation right now. I've had several campaigns with one or all the following happen:
-Reikland does nothing and gets rolled by Vampires or Norsca.
-Dwarfs are killed off around-ish turn 50 by Skaven or Greenskins.
-High Elves overrun by Mortahi, sometimes very early on like turn 40ish.
-Bretonnia KO'd by turn 10 from Marienburg or World Walkers.

It doesn't help that CA did something to diplomacy and now it's virtually impossible to get anyone to deal with you without very high relations. But especially with how early and fast maluses like Great Power will stack so when you meet Reikland or Dwarfs you're likely at -60 or -80 and that's not even adding the likely aversion penalty.

Also kudos because I would have just ended my campaign right there after the avalanche of order tide war decs.

at least these factions don't all inevitably team up. it'd be a lot easier if evles / dwarves / humies didn't inevitably form militarty alliances.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

chaleski posted:

I'm glad Brettonia isn't stronger because playing against a faction that is cav and flying cav based isn't fun imo

the only thing worse than this is mazdamundi's first fights, where it's early lizards vs. a 20-stack of horse archers.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

it's loving wild for Tomb Kings too. I completed the campaign without ever unlocking tier 5 units, just over 100 turns in.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Fangz posted:

A horse riding a horse

just increasing tiers of horse-on-horse pyramids, cheerleader style.

tier 1: just a horse
tier 2: 2x2 square with 1 horse on top
...
tier 5: 5x5 square of horses supporting 4, 3, 2, 1-square stacks.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Third World Reagan posted:

A group of peasants complaining about shoes but with AKs for everybody

"For the GLA! ...the Grail Lady Adorers!"

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Gonkish posted:

Bretonnia needs to confederate less conveniently when I'm trying to murder them off. loving Louen is always like "YOU THOUGHT I WAS DOOMED, BUT NO!" whenever I get him down to one city that is under siege. loving notFrench horse fuckers. I will burn-kill your world-barn down with warpfire!

In general I would very much like if, at least for some factions, recent military expansion / contraction affected confederation chances. like if you just went from 11 cities to 1, nobody should be joining that under any circumstances... and by the same token if I just steamrolled Lustria in like 20 turns, Itza should be willing to confederate goddamnit >:(

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

i think brettonia is boring and bad and don't want to play a cavalry focused roster. that's why i instead play one of the other several dozen other armies that are in the game. i'm glad you can play the army you want and i can play the army i want! but if what you want is Empire but with French accents, maybe you should install a VO mod or something.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Cythereal posted:

I asked the guy I've been talking to about a Bretonnia revamp since the thread and discord's been talking about it, this was his response:

quote:

GW sees Bretonnia as a kind of newbie faction for the franchise. If you like medieval knights and archers and trebuchets without any weird monsters or steampunk or guns, Bretonnia is here for you.

this take is really interesting to me, because it means GW thinks that knights with trebuchets is more culturally accessible than orks and elves. i seriously doubt that is still true since the LOTR craze. i am 100% certain that more people know what an orc is than know what a trebuchet is.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

KazigluBey posted:

Yeah I can get this, cool. I think that's where I stand too.


As someone posting "more is good" thanks for the direct reply to what I was asking to people on that side, but to follow-up: Isn't going by raw numbers kind of a bad way to look at it? Because not only does that ignore the fuzziness of some units being variants (as someone else posted, this actually brings the Brett (and other faction) roster down a fair few units) but also it just seems kinda'... Arbitrary? I asked "where is the line" to anyone arguing that "having more toys is always a plus" because it seems to me that since nobody is really arguing for making every faction all-rounders then additions do need some kind of justification.

for me, the line would be "is there any scenario that would stump any possible army comp from this faction?" like, if they were literally 100% cavalry and therefore couldn't siege walls, that would clearly be an issue. it's less about whether you have e.g. flying cavalry or not, but whether your army has tools that cover that missing unit type's functions (flank, attack backline, move over walls).

that doesn't sound like a problem brets have!

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

orangelex44 posted:

I'm pretty willing to die on the hill that "dwarf" is a stupid word, and that it's purely exposure that means no one notices. It's really really hard to come up with fictional names for anything, because people's first reaction to new words is generally unfavorable. Doubly so if those words don't quite follow standard grammatical rules.

...you know the word "dwarf" is hundreds of years old, right? like, tolkein did not invent that concept.

do you have a source on the idea that people's first reactions to new words is unfavorable? i've never seen any claim like that and am really struggling to think of examples, especially given that language is constantly evolving and new words are constantly coming into common usage.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

orangelex44 posted:

It turns out it's really hard to google for this, so I'm going to have to just point to the previous ~10 posts as anecdotal evidence. That, combined with the fact that English has ~1.5 billion speakers (and ~350 million native speakers) to potentially generate new terms/phrases/words, the language itself adds around ~1000 words per year. However, the large majority of those are either new usages of existing words (what does "literally" even mean), minor alterations (adding a suffix, making a compound word, extremely common misspellings/respellings, etc.), loan words from another language, technical/specialist reference words (such as all the military and nautical terms), or spillover from product names (e.g. "to web search" became "to google"). Very few words come out of nowhere, and even among those that hit the dictionary a lot of them don't penetrate to the common lexicon.

you can just say "actually, i have no idea, i just made that up because it was convenient to my argument". it's ok, i understand.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Zaphod42 posted:

Diplomacy is the biggest area of potential improvement IMO. I wouldn't mind if they just froze everything else basically as-is and worked full time on diplomacy for the next game.

absolutely agree. give me more options (trade cities to complete provinces, for instance) and make the AI a little more realistic (if you've got one city and half a stack, confederate with me goddamn it; if we're in a military alliance, don't declare war on my military ally; if i broke treaties with someone, but you hate them, that should be a diplomatic bonus rather than a demerit)

out of curiosity, is there any game out there that does this well? i felt like diplomacy in civ was usually pretty bad too, but that's the only other major grand strategy title i've engaged with much.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

AnEdgelord posted:

For Tomb Kings they still have Apophas as potential legendary lord number 5 and he has a built in reason to go globetrotting.

quote:

However, being of noble birth, Apophas was able to strike a bargain with Usirian,

So just say that he found some particularly evil prick out east that he hopes he can use to buy his way out of eternal damnation

for some reason it always makes me lol when deities give a poo poo about mortal lineage. like yeah, i'm the god of underworld and torment with unimaginable powers and countless dead under my watch, but what's that you say? your parents were rich? sure, i'll hear you out.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

ChickenHeart posted:

If I were CA/GW I'd just shamelessly rip-off Sekiro. Gimmie a run-down kingdom knee-deep in civil war over the secrets of eternal life (which turn out to be fueled by centipede Chaos magic).

That would give you a great mixture of down-to-earth units like swordsmen and gunners led by giant warlords weilding wacky powers, while allowing you to go hog-wild with poo poo like headless ghosts, chaos monks, and captured monsters that you guide into enemy formations before sending them into a berserk rage.

Honestly, every prestige enemy in Sekrio would be an excellent TW unit. Taro Troop and ogres as monstrous infantry, monkeys with swords as expendable auxiliaries that attack allies when they go berserk, Nightjars as flying infantry, Okami or Interior Ministry forces as elite infantry. Bosses offer plenty of LL's and hero units. They've even got the fire bull, sakura bull, and big snake for large monster units.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

DourCricket posted:

As someone who just finished a Khalida campaign like a week ago I was quite surprised to learn Neferata WASN'T in the game somewhere considering just how frequently she asked me to bring her NEFERATA'S HEAD


Joke context for those who haven't played as Khalida - her one of five~ barks on the campaign map when you select her is her shouting at you to bring her Neferata's head, with the volume raising significantly the last two words

my #1 feature request for WH3 is to let me mute those campaign barks. it's bad enough that they're so repetitive, but for some reason they play every time i mouse over a pre-battle option. "Retreat! I lust for battle! Retreat! Retreat! Bring me battle! I cannot. Foolish!" and I haven't even clicked a button yet.

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Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Kaiju Cage Match posted:

Aztec dinosaurs with laser beams have universal appeal.

WH3 wish: a skink skirmisher squad with handheld laser weapons.

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