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Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Lucky's mod kind of sounds like it just wants to gently caress over the AI and make the game easier for the player. I wish the base game had unit caps for every faction though. Is there any other overhaul that fixes some of the problems with the game without going crazy?

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Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Is there no good building based unit cap mod? I found one that does the exact opposite of what I want in that it makes spearmen count as much as phoenix guard toward a global cap. I don't want a mod that messes with battles other than making armies more varied for both the player and the AI.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
What about Boyz will be Boyz? I'll try an overhaul if it makes the campaign more enjoyable. I hate fiddly mechanics and micromanagement (i.e. the edict system) but don't mind complexity in long term planning.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Blooming Brilliant posted:

(and I believe downed characters take 50% more damage).

Where do you read about game mechanics like this? I've been wondering if melee defense is even good for lords and heroes since supposedly melee defense only works fully from the front and single units always get themselves surrounded.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I'm disappointed to learn that half the rats i send into battle aren't actually female. The problem with portraying evil is that you have to commit to either real evil or cartoonish evil. Building torture posts and capturing slaves as dark elves is fine because it's unambiguously evil and indiscriminate, which paradoxically makes it OK to like them. Sexism is the kind of ambiguous and discriminate evil that fits in a realistic portrayal of evil, not with doomsday weapons and plague priests.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Sexism by the irl writers is different from sexism by the fictional baddies
I'm talking about the sexism of the work. I don't care about the writers.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I'm gonna abandon my current Vampire Coast game and see if SFO is any good. I just hope the AI isn't punished even more than by Luthor Harkon flying around with 50% ward save and 90% missile resistance while his artillery recruitment building alone is one-shotting entire skink units.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I tried SFO Grimhammer and I really like the campaign changes but the unit changes are pretty stupid. What is even the point of super-elite anti-infantry when the entire point of infantry is to hold the enemy in place while your warpfire throwers or star dragons kill everything.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Skaven infantry is absolutely perfect for the role infantry has in the mod though. My ideal army setup would be 2 star dragons and 17 skavenslave spears.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I wish there was a mod that made the crap units viable and that’s it.

I’m sure I’ll return to Lucky’s and SFO when I get bored of campaign again and they aren’t bad per se, but they seem to give every unit one of four functions: trash, nuke, murderer, and invincible. Sometimes 2 or 3 of the 4.
Like even with caps, I don’t like playing with monsters that can tank an entire army or having a lord that can get half the enemy army in two casts even if I’m not trying.

With lucky’s I love the progressive veterancy buffs so I don’t just delete all my archers for sisters as soon as I have the cash, but I also don’t like Teclis just killing 600 dudes with 0 effort at the battle start if I roll high enough winds.

IMO the way to make crap units viable is to reduce the increased upkeep per army and make retreat easier and less costly. Alternatively make entire armies and their units immortal like LLs with wound recovery time and everything. As it stands the best thing about having strong units is so that you can easily snowball with one army. Lucky's veterancy bonuses just seem like they would make that snowballing worse.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
You could do it sort of like Starsector. Increase army size to 30, but have gold deployment costs with a cap on what you can spend and reduce upkeep to compensate. No sense sending expensive Longbeards to deal with goblins.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Psycho Landlord posted:

Force org, points ratios, whatever. Same basic idea at the end of the day.

Also the only way to make crap units viable like you expressed a desire for without making everything statistically similar and samey is basically forcing their use. If you want fancy all demigryph armies or whatever as an option then swordsmen and poo poo are always going to be a suboptimal choice.

Maybe enforcing unit caps on armies until the lord hits lvl 30 or something? That way you can still have your thematic and fun all-knight Louen stompfest in lategame, but your random poo poo lords don't get to just run around with grailstacks.
That's a dumb idea since it would limit army composition more than multiplayer which already uses a point system.

I think the building based unit caps that SFO add are good enough. You can put all your dragons in one stack but you won't go raiding with that army. The problem with making a cheap army specifically for raiding and sacking small settlements is that it will increase your upkeep by 15% and die if an enemy touches it. Stellaris changed the way combat works so large doomstacks don't annihilate smaller stacks. If Total War could use something similar it might prevent the game past turn 50 from being just mopping up the AI with an ever growing snowball. I don't know how you would translate that sort of mechanic in a way that works well for TW though.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I tried Lucky's and in the first fight as Teclis the swordmasters took so long to kill anything I just assumed it was slower than SFO. I started with a warpfire thrower unit as Mors in SFO though. I guess both mods just have garbage balance.

I still like the campaign changes in SFO so far. Lucky's added a -20% construction cost edict and that's bad for my OCD.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Giants don't have any actual area of effect attacks do they, just a regular splash attack that's split between models? The faster large units at least get impact damage like chariots.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Turning orcs into skaven does not sound fun.

I wish the developers cared about campaign balance half as much as multiplayer balance. Either make goblin-tier units viable through technology or embrace multiplayer balance and don't make the 20 unit limit the single most important aspect of combat.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Insurrectionist posted:

I mean, the biggest balance-issue campaign-wise is just battle AI in my experience, especially when combined with poo poo like corner-camping in the case of range-heavy armies. The AI gets easily baited by fliers/fast cav to split its army even when it's smart enough to not send its faster units in to die alone before the rest can catch up. That's before even cheesier poo poo like sieging armies never coming out of the fortress and just letting you pick it off at your choosing after having a single tanky character drain 100% of the defending AI's ammunition. I'm not sure improving melee Orc units is gonna meaningfully help any of these issues.

If you want a strategy game where that isn't true your only option is chess. It's still something you can balance around.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Is there a reasonably balanced mod that removes siege battles and works with SFO?

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Thanks. I'll try it out. Siege battles are so bad.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I found playing as the updated empire kind of frustrating since you are supposed to be defending the elector counts from vampires and the like but they don't always give you military access and you can't replenish on their territory.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Third World Reagan posted:

this doesn't abolish doomstacks

it abolishes more than 1 or 2 doomstacks

they still exist and the game can be won with only a few doomstacks

The restriction shouldn't be put on a faction but on armies. The tomb king mechanic works well for tomb kings but it doesn't stop anything once the empire is large enough.

That's not really a problem with factionwide army caps though it's a problem with lightning strike. Without lightnings strike it would not be worth it to build 10 high tier recruitment buildings across your empire just to field one doomstack.

Edit: The problem with gun units is that every entity can fire no matter how many ranks deep you put them. You should be forced to keep them as a spaghetti line to do full damage.

Mercrom fucked around with this message at 02:43 on May 17, 2020

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

neonchameleon posted:

Edit: The real secret to firing with deep blocks of muskets was found before 1600. The front rank after firing marched to the back to reload and the next rank, now reloaded, was in the front so could now shoot. CA's "Everyone can fire even without spaghetti lines" saves them a whole lot of animation that would look just plain bad - but everyone shooting from a deep block isn't something firearms shouldn't be able to do.

Yeah but I use square formations against the AI. That's a bit extreme for max damage output isn't it?

But aside from the critical mass aspect that affects all ranged units I guess the real problem with guns is that the AI can't counter them. The AI gets their units stuck in your deckhands or on your lord while the gunners shoot them from the side. They seem balanced in multiplayer as an anti-large unit.

jokes posted:

The ol’ ambush-next-to-a-garrison trick is always an option.
I have played this game quite a bit and I think I have never laid an ambush and I'm not sure how they even work. On paper they seem poo poo. Lay an ambush out of line of sight where you somehow know the enemy is gonna be for a random chance of success, or just put your unit behind a near invincible walled garrison? Seems like an easy choice to me. Is it just that the AI handles it badly enough to be worth using?

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Invisible armies being really powerful makes sense. So what's the criteria for making your ambush invisible? Is it related to ambush success chance?

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I guess I always thought of ambushes as a way to use a weaker army to beat a stronger army, not the other way around. I also didn't know ambush success chance did anything more than increase the chance of triggering ambush battles so I guess it's worth investing in.

But if I succeed in hiding even when the AI has vision of me doing does it really not know I'm there anymore? That seems completely broken if that's the case.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Raygereio posted:

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but gently caress those dumb puzzles.
Look at this dumb poo poo. What is even supposed to be the solution? I've pasted it in Paint and rotated it around. None of them fit.:argh:


It's the third one I'm pretty sure. Fits yellow lines. But yeah I don't understand why they had to make this puzzle so much harder than the other ones.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
My only exposure to Warhammer Fantasy is this game so appreciate easy to understand things like pharaos are liches now. It being derivative is what makes it work well as a Total War setting. There's also cool details I've read in this thread about how in the lore the biggest demon invasion of fantasy HRE killed 10x less people than Sweden did in the real HRE during the 30 year war.

Marin Karin posted:

this is the only good AoS video if anyone wants a fair look at the lore and its golden boys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DMtqizICn0
Also this video is great but as long as ZA/UM isn't making a Warhammer game idgaf about characterization beyond "who punches harder".

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Zzulu posted:

God drat, I'm playing the big SFO mod and I came across a slayer unit with nearly 100.000hp? those assholes are bad enough as it is without the crazy health

It's a mod conflict. It happened to me and I had to uninstall a mod that allowed me to use any unit as a lord in custom battles. I might have had to use "verify integrity of game files" in Steam too.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

yikes! posted:

so is the point just that melee infantry suck more?

Basically yeah. SFO changes the basic hit calculation so the base hit chance for melee units is only 20%. I like the campaign changes but the battle changes are kinda dumb.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Is it documented anywhere what bonuses and penalties various factions get for post-battle loot and sacking settlements?

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
The new SFO patch is awful. They decided growth was too fast for some reason and that no one enjoys tier 4 units anyway.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I mean the change to the surplus needed to grow the main settlement so you need an extra surplus point for every tier. I'm stuck with 2 slots in the main settlement forever as Gelt.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Cavalry isn't very cost effective in single player. Even with good micro they don't excel enough in open field battles to make up for their forest, chokepoint and siege performance.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Motherfucker posted:

I challenge the 'ranged combat waa waa' croud to go ahead, make an online game. Get someone of equal skill level too you and have them play as a different race and critically: never friggin let the ai play, always pvp. Even using the dopey loving AI built stacks I guarentee what you *think* is a doom stack isn't when a player can control the other side. There's a reason why they only use one or two weapon teams in online competetive and its because no matter how withering your gun line, its not going to last against a player who is doing their damnedest to break its back.

what the gently caress is this idiotic post

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
i like sfo because it balances the single player game around single player

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

Communist Thoughts posted:

big same.
it also makes growth buildings completely pointless because +30 growth doesnt matter when you need 2000
in my empire campaing the moot has a special building that adds.... +5 growth to all provinces

CA is wierd cause they do these big leaps back occasionally that make you wonder if any of them play the game
nobody likes spamming turns to be allowed to use your mid and end tier units

unfortunately i think a very large part of the player base enjoy "epic" 200 turn games where you mostly spam one type of unit at a time

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
i decided to try out wood elves as orion with a mod that removes sieges because i wanted to use cavalry and now my glade guard have 150 missile damage before i could recruit a single great stag knight. rip that run

the wood elf campaign gimmick of waiting for deep roots teleports so you can do stuff is bad anyway

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
i dont understand why they havent made diplomacy less poo poo yet. does anyone think it is fun to try to figure out what yellow means

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
I really hate recruitment buildings in vanilla. Paying a fortune to build a tier 5 one that you might lose to a random wandering army is only worth it if you are gonna spam the unit and make the game unfun. And early game you have fewer building slots so your unit variety is limited.

I hope they are willing to experiment in the third game like they did with Three Kingdoms.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
Is there any mod that lowers growth requirements? I can only find stuff that adds a flat amount of growth to every province.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009
The easiest way is to make your own mod with RPFM. That way you don't actually have to mess up your game files. You can read more here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2180764161

I've only used it to make campaign map view distance equal on all difficulties but the "RPFM for dummies" guide linked there uses editing lord stats as a training example.

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Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009

appropriatemetaphor posted:

SIEGE STOP is the only required mod. Game is so much better when there's no siege battles ever.

no it's this one because it compensates for the loss of walls and doesnt make taking tier 5 settlements free https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1980751094

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