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The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
What’s a fun faction to play that minimizes the amount of settlements I have to manage? I’ve currently done elves, dinosaurs, a couple dozen turns of tomb kings then I got bored, and now I’m just finishing up a super fun dwarves campaign. However, always sorting through a dozen provinces and half a hundred settlements just gets a little bit much from a management perspective by the end game.

I recognize that tall vs wide doesn’t work amazing in a 4X, but nevertheless :v:. How are some of the horde factions? Never played any of those yet.

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 4, 2020

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The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
What are people running for clan moulder? I’m having a bit of trouble being efficient with my monster armies. Right now I’m running one with a mish mash of skavenslaves, like 8 monsters of various sorts, a few catapults and my heroes, but I’m having trouble winning without excessive casualties. Like fifty turns into ME with a few too many settlements raiding my way through the empire.

Tempted to do a bunch of single entity monsters + ranged/artillery for a fun which just feels like a crummier Ikit Claw. I do really like the mutagenic lab and growth vat though, it’s a lot of fun.

I actually found wolf packs really useful in the early game breaking enemy armies apart and should probably reintroduce them.


Also that 1-5 free auguments for slave slaves sucks, you have plenty of mutagenic juice and half the time they spawn with genetic instability and it’s just a waste.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
How are people playing Rakarth? I’m in Vortex on Hard and just getting destroyed against all the high elves. I can take territory fine but can’t hold onto it in the slightest.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Muscle Tracer posted:

they should definitely be paid, and they are, whenever anyone buys the game. the reason it matters isn't just size but structure. it's not like every employee gets another 5 cents each whenever someone buys a DLC--at a company that size they're all getting paid the same no matter what. all that extra cash people are apparently very eager to pay goes to Sega and GW shareholders, not the people putting effort into the game, to the tune of several billion last year.

sorry to get all politics, and i'll stop posting on this topic now.

How exactly do you think salaries are paid if not with the company’s money?

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
The massive thing about vanguard deployment I’m shocked nobody has mentioned yet is splitting up the enemy army. I didn’t really learn how good this was till I played 3K, but disrupting the enemy army by making only parts of it come at you at once is so so so essential for keeping your army intact in the long run. It’s a bit micro-y, but I’ve had a lot of success with mixed melee/ranged/artillery setup in a kill zone on good terrain, which then proceeds to annihilate the enemy units coming at me three or four at a time.

Any fast unit can do this but vanguard units are better at it. This is why vanguard on lords, monsters, cavalry, or fliers is great and why it’s anemic with infantry (outside of situations like hitting reinforcing armies as they enter the map. Bring a mage for added fun!). Lure their fast units like monsters, cav, and lords over by making them chase your cav as you lead the AI right into your entire army. Or keep circling around them to drain their stamina and create opportunities for charges into their ranged units.


Obviously this doesn’t work so well on real humans but I never play MP anyways so.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Broken Cog posted:

Decided to give Cult of Sotek another go to see if I could actually find these mythical "useful followers" from his pyramid gambling.
First 4 pulls:
3x


1x


Some amazing stuff right here, let me tell you.

Edit: Tried another one, another Swamp Trawler.

+5% casualty replenishment is great though??

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Arghy posted:

I keep forgetting not everyone runs the 'recruit defeated LL' mod haha i was like wait that doesn't solve anything! The problem with grimgor is he's this insane duelist and every dawi LL besides maybe belegar will lose to him so you don't have any good tools to counter him. You'll have the same problem with ninja rat who's even worse because he usually stalks around your army with 2 goddamn assassins in tow.

sure you do - shoot the fucker! Your lords/LLs will never be able to handle him one on one, so don't try. Either route him by inflicting army losses, or use micro to kite with lords and snipe with your guns.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Arghy posted:

Yeah if you're facing him alone but realistically he's with an entire army who will happily eat your ranged units so you're forced to send your sub par dwarven melee units to try and hold the line while you struggle to bring ranged units to bear on a tiny infantry sized figure that's running around. I've had to gun line him after killing his army before and he took 2 units of thunderers for minutes. You can use cannons and gyros to focus on him if his army will let you but he's still gonna arrive over 50% health because he should have most of his items by the time you have cannons and gyros so i think he's rocking over 40% wardsave against missiles.

The new rune system is good for equalizing the fights now but you'll need a high level runesmith/lord and you'll still have to cycle charge so hopefully your army is up to a level it can handle his army with a large portion of it focusing on a single entity. It's funny because he should be a murder machine but the correct way to deal with him is run and get a good auto resolve unless you have a buffed up LL that can deal with him properly.

yeah I vehemently disagree with all of this advice tbh. You do not need a LL to deal with him properly.

This is where ogre cavalry are very helpful, but gyrocopters and lords can work here as well to split up the enemy army on the approach so you’re not fighting them all at once… and use more than 2 thunderers also. There’s very little 6-10 units of thunderers/quarrellers cannot handle - they’ll annihilate units with every volley and a legendary lord in four or five. Tarpit units with lords so they don’t block your ranged or artillery fire, and they’ll last long enough for your ranged units to do their work, especially if you’re corner camping. You don’t need runesmiths at all, though one in your army can sometimes be helpful.

But I make mostly ranged dwarf armies anyways, with lords substituting for melee infantry. Not sure how, say, a slayer army would handle it.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

So what you're saying is GRIMGOR IZ DA BEST

no he's just using too many melee units

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Cranappleberry posted:

In media, armor is often treated as ineffective (or effective only when the writer needs it to be). In video games it's often treated inaccurately because not everyone wants to deal with weak points at the joints or where the armor doesn't cover or the fact that chain can be pierced more easily with certain weapons and so on. Usually they go with a percentage reduction.

In this regard, TWW2 is precise even if it's not accurate. Where it's different is that it's usually magic that ignores armor because that kinda makes sense (some percentage of physical damage is negated but the magic effect or damage goes through). Their combat and damage systems could use a lot of refinement and re-balancing. It doesn't need to be realistic or fit with other games' systems. Example: make fire damage damage over time if it scores a hit, make it reduce accuracy or have a leadership debuff, maybe make it more effective against certain units besides ones with regeneration. Give me more reasons to take it, same with magic damage and other stuff.

People mentioned making AP less ubiquitous. I totally agree. There are also creative solutions to this that shouldn't be too tough to implement but reducing or removing AP from units across the board is the simplest.

fun fact! all damaging magic has an undocumented ratio of AP vs non AP damage. You actually have to dive into the database tables to figure it out, though some spells will say things like "weak against armor" (e.g. Burning Head) which will indicate one way or another. Legend of Total War recently did a deep dive video about damage types and resistances, and there's good info in there (like how fire damage is almost always a bad thing to have on your units!)

Also magical weapons have nothing to do with AP, though many magical weapons units also have AP as well.

Lastly, agreed that AP is far too ubiquitous, particularly with ranged units. Reducing the # of ranged AP units would go a long way into making melee infantry a bit more usable.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Arghy posted:


These are vanilla loving waystalkers destroying modded units in seconds.

So every t4 ranged unit then

3-4 archers focus firing on anything does lots of DPS quite quickly! Same is true for waywatchers, sisters, ratling guns… Which is why so many of us are critical about how ranged in general needs a bit of a nerf!

Still, they’re hardly unbeatable. But maybe try some different tactics before concluding it’s impossible. Make use of trees, splitting up the enemy army with decoys, using different army compositions… or bringing reinforcements and auto-resolving if your army comp is ill fitting.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Arghy posted:

Been having trouble with some mods, think i had too many at once haha. I've had to either restart because i removed some or due to some repeated silliness i just decided to restart. I have no idea what's causing it but almost every battle with reinforcements they've been scattered across the battlefield even though they were all right next to me on the campaign map. One fight was reversed with the enemy reinforcements appearing behind me and mine on the other end of an underway map.

I wonder if it's just bad luck or maybe some mod conflict shenanigans but i've never had so many repeated reinforcement weirdness.

The latter can happen normally, no modding required, where enemy reinforcements appear on the battle map depends on where they are on the campaign map.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
The problem is chosen suck because they’re slow melee infantry, and you should never rely on melee infantry to do heavy damage. This is why chaos sucks and why it’s trivial to clown on them if you have one of speed, ranged or magic. Which is most armies.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
My favourite thing about Arghy’s odyssey is that for most of the summer I was playing with about 70-80 mods completely bug free


Speaking of odysseys how’s everyone enjoying Troy mythos? I put campaign to hard at the start and boy was that a mistake. In WH2 (vanilla/qol mods) I usually go for hard or very hard campaign, but in Troy it’s yiiikes. My first Paris play through did not go well at all, despite the OP archers.

Diomedes is pretty fun with a much easier start position - and more forgiving faction gimmick.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
the best lore of magic is any lore of magic when you otherwise have none

every army should have a wizard in it, except dwarves, who can do without.

as far as types go, there are some that are better than others but fire and life are great, vampire magic is great if you're playing as their faction, and the rest are varying degress of situational to good.

but always bring a wizard! Magic is hugely powerful if you use it right.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Blooming Brilliant posted:

Looking at the trailers/screenshots and from Cathay having a Yin and Yang motif that's also tied to their mechanics, this probably explains why all the melee units are male and all the ranged/magic units are female.

They're literally gender balancing so they can use magical powers. That's a nifty merging of lore/gameplay if that's the case.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
I very much disagree with the advice to put walls everywhere. You should be liberal with their use in minor settlements, but as your empire expands you should absolutely demolish the walls in your heartlands in favour of economy buildings. Obviously not building the wall and having +x gold/growth/PO sooner is better.

I would definitely wall the heck out of your border regions though, unless you’ve got a NAP with whoever’s bordering you.


also for unit advice:
- melee bad
- ranged good
- monsters good
- magic great

Your ranged weapons will do by far the most damage to the enemy, so I’d advice a 1:2 relationship of melee to ranged units in your army (including lords/artillery). Single entity units are way way way better at tanking, so use heroes and monsters liberally to hold the line while you shoot your enemies to death.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

This is terrible advice to give to newbies, walls go on everything without question. The AI will walk armies past your front line settlements to go take/sack/raze the backline and its a pain in the rear end.

edit: or walk past your friend that you have a NAP with

edit2: or declare war on your despite the NAP

I disagree, there’s a real opportunity cost there and if they want to not be newbies anymore I encourage them to not put walls in places that are unlikely to get attacked. The judgement call on “what isn’t likely going to be attacked” will obviously be a sense that grows in time with practice. But blindly putting walls everywhere is just inefficient and unnecessary.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
I approve of Hat Posting, however 7/10 for that pathetic green mop of a hat is simply outrageous. It’s a 5 at most, this is some blatant Stirlander bias!

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

jokes posted:

I’m imagining Grimgor as that “I’m da prettiest” ork from that 40k comic “slut patrol” and it fits

oh my god

https://funnyjunk.com/channel/warhammer40k/Cancelled+40k+comic+slut+patrol/zXRfLmK/

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Kaza42 posted:

That Khorne vs Tzeentch video posted by Great Book of Grudges was very disappointing. He kept misreading the battlefield and messing up the new mechanics, and spent the entire battle saying how one sided it's going to be since Khorne hard counters Tzeentch. While Khorne wins in the video, it was far from a one sided stomp, which GBG just completely misses

This is very funny to me because Khorne vs Tzeentch would be pretty laughably one sided in the other direction if you’re remotely good at micro-ing. Barrier + ranged + speed = very unhappy melee infantry

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Vortexes are fine, you just have to know when to use them. You can get hundreds to thousands of kills with mages as is, I don’t think vortexes need to be more powerful.

As ever I suspect this is largely a problem of twwh2 really really rewarding system knowledge. When I first started playing I used to lose normal battles even when I had the advantage. 400 hours later, not so much.

The problem is that it takes dozens to hundreds of hours to get there.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

This is the second time this page someone made this argument and its a bad one. Just because I can get lots of kills with one spell type doesnt justify another spell type being being a complete waste of Winds in comparison. No one is arguing that Vortexes need to be more powerful because mages are too weak. You're completely missing the point.

Anywhere you can get hundreds of kills with a vortex you can reliably get more for the same winds spent by casting a Burning Head/Pit of Shades/Warp Lightning without needing RNG to toss your Vortex into the nearest ditch.

that is not my experience at all. Flame storm, banishment, pit of shades - all excellent vortex spells that I regularly get hundreds of kills with! Flame storm in particular is half the reason fire wizards are so good. Breath and bombardment spells range from the okay to excellent, but the comparative lack of armour piercing damage really hurts them against higher tier units. They’re easier to use certainly, but if you know how to use them right, and do so in situations where you minimize RNG (like in a big clump), they really outperform in damage per winds of magic.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

this is sick as gently caress. my jaw actually dropped when i saw the bats spell. wow wow wow.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
also that was easily the best trailer for wh3 i've seen so far, dang

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

i'll say this for them - Chosen do some loving work.

chosen are some of the worst units in the game imo

Heavy melee infantry with poo poo speed? It’s really hard to get their worth out of them for me. They aren’t good at exploiting flanks due to their speed, you can’t reposition them easily, and they just evaporate against artillery.

elite melee infantry are generally in a poor place imo. Way too expensive for what they offer, when normally you’d be better served by single entity monsters/heroes, or more ranged units instead.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Thing is poo poo like berzerker goblins doesn't actually happen on VH. VH at best can make the AI's troops equivalent to what they would be if their lords took red buffs instead +5 interception chance. Never mind that most people reporting ranged supremacy are on normal. Ranged are superior because of the battle engine and because losing some ammo means nothing while losing troops can delay you.

What on earth are you talking about, ranged units are massively more powerful on harder difficulties because you’re not fighting enemies in melee, where enemies get significant buffs

It’s why I usually play on normal, so I can include more melee infantry!

I agree with most of your points, just not the bit about normal difficulty.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

What's the worst infantry in the game? Bret Peasant mobs? I need to know how many models a single Chosen can murder, what's the best way of going about this

Stormvermin easily

Hella expensive, completely useless on the battlefield, it is literally more optimal to bring slave slaves because at least the game doesn’t think they are worth more balance of power then they can actually dish out in return.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

AnEdgelord posted:

I dont know the stats but peasant mobs, skavenslaves, and zombies are prime contenders.

all of those units are great because they’re dirt cheap

Bret peasant mobs - I can’t say I’d ever recruit them versus more archers instead. But zombies and skavenslaves are great because they’re both effectively free, they eat missiles, and hold enemies back while your ranged units/magic/single entities dish out damage.

Skavenslaves/clan rats are much better as a plague priest summon than a unit in your army mind.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
how do you do a build a bear demon lord and then loving whiff on the mandatory gendering, what the gently caress

i stg if there’s not day 1 mods to bolt on poorly animated boobs I’ll be very upset

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The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

neonchameleon posted:

Stormvermin are simply better at holding the line than Skavenslaves - and when playing campaign the 20 unit per army cap matters. The question isn't "what could I use stormvermin for that I can't do at all with skavenslaves" it's "if I replace my skavenslaves with stormvermin could I then cut a unit or two of the meat shields thanks to their good MD and ARM 90 and replace them with more war crimes while still leaving the war crimes units at least as well protected?" Plague monks can not, of course, do this job; they've a mediocre MD and no armour so melt little slower than slaves.

As for why depth guard, specialist armies I suppose? Depth guard mulch chaff and again you can save in your unit count against a crab/bomber mix, using one unit rather than two. But why are you struggling against chaff?

bring 2 grey monks and 18 ratling guns coward

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