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  • Locked thread
Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



EDIT: Amazingly this thread hasn't turned into a total turd. I'm going to let it sit for a while, and you can use it as a general place to discuss awful firearms tragedies in general within the same broad parameters that I set forward below.

I'm assuming by now that everyone has heard of last night's awful shooting in Las Vegas. It's looking to be the deadliest in US history.

First off, I know that TFR has people in that area. I hope everyone is safe and that no one is directly affected by this. It goes without saying that this is awful beyond measure. My deepest, most heartfelt condolences go out to all of last night's victims, their friends, and their families.

Here is what this thread is for:

1) people from that area checking in

2) discussion of the shooting itself (edit: and mass shootings in general, unfortunately this is the world we're living in)

3) discussion of any concrete, proposed legal changes as a result of the shooting.

3a) discussion of gun control in general as a policy means for preventing mass shootings.

Basic thread rules:

1) Don't get into general political discussion. Yeah, poo poo is about to get intensely political re: guns out there, but I still don't give a poo poo what the POTUS or one of last year's failed presidential candidates or any other politician has to say about anything else. Did some politician tweet something really, really stupid about anything that isn't very specifically this tragedy or what the response should be? Don't care, don't post it here.

2) Don't be a dick. Most people in TFR are in favor of the 2A, lots of people who aren't, aren't. I'll admit that I'm going to be arbitrary as gently caress with this. If you are someone who contributes to TFR in other areas and want to air out some feelings about whether or not you think guns are still for you, that's fine. I know a guy in my every day life who sold his collection after Aurora. This is a thing we can talk about. If you are anti-gun or just have no firm feelings on the 2A issue and want to talk with people in a reasonable way, that's fine too. If you just want to drop some hot take about how no one needs a gun you're politely invited to gently caress off.

2a) the same goes for all of you gun lovers. If someone tries to have a discussion in a reasonable way don't be a prick. Note that it's a totally respectable standpoint to say "obviously we deeply disagree on this issue, we have expressed our reasons for thinking why we do, and we're going to have to agree to disagree." Not every discussion on the internet has to end with converting all opposing viewpoints to your one, immutable truth. Just like I'm not going to tolerate anti-gun people saying all gun owners care more about their murder toys than dead children I'm also not going to tolerate pro-gun people being the biggest dicks possible for internet argument points.

DONT BE DICKS. Can I emphasize this enough?
Note that this is by its very nature going to be a judgement call on my part and might seem arbitrary. If in doubt try to rephrase what your'e saying to focus on the issues and not what you might think about some other poster.

3) any kind of pissing and moaning about the "inevitable legislative response." If and when it happens by all means talk about whatever gets proposed, but hand wringing over poo poo that hasn't materialized in the immediate wake of a tragedy is some pretty terrifically insensitive and stupid poo poo.

Please do me all a favor and don't be the biggest assholes you can be. I'd really like this to be a place that we can discuss the largest gun-related civilian tragedy in the United States in recent memory (possibly ever) and not have it be a pit of acrimony and a never ending stream of probates.

If you have any other questions feel free to PM me or ask directly in the thread. This is going to be an ever evolving cluster gently caress so I'm going to be a bit flexible about the discussion here, but I'm serious about keeping it limited to things directly related to the shooting itself.

ATTENTION: Don't poo poo up this thread. Don't be an aggressive jerk. Basically read the rules above and abide by them. I'm going to be harsher than usual with probations etc. in this thread, so be on your best behavior. poo poo basically starts at a week

edit: one thing to note is that what really pisses me off the most are people who parachute in, take a dump in a good thread, then try to scurry off. On the other hand someone who gets involved in a drawn out 3 page argument and gets a little hot under the collar is a lot easier to sympathize with. If you're actively participating with the discussion I'm going to look a lot more kindly on you than if you just bust in with drive by shitposting.

EDIT FOR THE 5/18/18 REOPENING

Read this post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3836213&pagenumber=230#post484226477 Take special note that i don't want old poo poo getting dragged around again. Hopefully I'll get a new OP going in a while.

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 21:15 on May 18, 2018

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Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"

Last year I left on a cruise on the day after the Pulse shooting.

I'm leaving on another cruise today. quit bringing down my vacations you loving psychos.

Edit- bonus there being I will be away from the news for the most part for the next 5 days so I can skip all the bullshit conjecture and misinformation and just get some facts on the shooting when I get back hopefully.

Final Blog Entry fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Oct 2, 2017

uncle w benefits
Nov 1, 2010

hi, it's me, your uncle


Final Blog Entry posted:

Last year I left on a cruise on the day after the Pulse shooting.

I'm leaving on another cruise today. quit bringing down my vacations you loving psychos.

Your bougie lifestyle is the cause of mass shootings, obvs.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

https://twitter.com/EduSamani/status/914748921842475008

https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/914822640849833984

poo poo sucks. Kinda clever reportedly locating the gunman based on fire alarm being set off by gunfire.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



My wife and I go there about once a year on average. Since our respective families are from two different coasts we split the difference and got married there to try and make sure no single family had to travel all the way across the country - a nice outdoor ceremony in Red Rock Canyon. We were just down there about a month ago, mostly hanging out in the downtown area.

We actually had a discussion over dinner one night about how the whole loving place was one giant soft target, I think in response to the full body search we got in the airport and how ridiculous all of that security theater was.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



mlmp08 posted:


poo poo sucks. Kinda clever reportedly locating the gunman based on fire alarm being set off by gunfire.

Goddamn that gives you an idea of the volume of fire this rear end in a top hat was putting out.

Blotto Skorzany
Nov 7, 2008

He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip


I heard the shooter was using a 240B. How the hell did he get it? None of those are transferrable.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Blotto Skorzany posted:

I heard the shooter was using a 240B. How the hell did he get it? None of those are transferrable.

I would wait until more reliable reporting comes out. I've yet to see any serious journalists reporting on any make/type, and serious journalists still gently caress that up all the time.

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/914828346122530816

New Concept Hole
Oct 10, 2012

東方動的


Nothing official has been released about what he was shooting people with, people are just making stuff up because it was loud and a lot of bullets

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Blotto Skorzany posted:

I heard the shooter was using a 240B. How the hell did he get it? None of those are transferrable.
There's all sorts of insane rumors going around. Seeing as the PD killed him in his room, I gotta imagine what he used will end up on the news. And then be mis-identified somehow by the news.

From what I heard in the videos, and I honestly only watched two, the rate of fire sounded pretty slow. I assume by now, the experts at getting shot at in GiP have some theories.

edit: whelp, could have checked the GiP CE thread myself: lots of people saying it sounds like an AK.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

And remember, with any great tragedy comes great opportunity to spread fake stories about whatever the gently caress. Buzzfeed is compiling a list of fake stories or troll accounts using the vegas shooting to spread fake poo poo.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/here-are-all-the-hoaxes-being-spread-about-the-las-vegas?bftwnews&utm_term=.hb0oRKmENy#.sqGyoEvwA5

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009




Fun Shoe

It was just reported on the news that he was dead when the police entered the room. Why can't these people just put a loving bullet in their head first?

e: "over 50 dead" according to the Las Vegas Sheriff's Department.

fknlo fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Oct 2, 2017

Alaan
May 24, 2005



mlmp08 posted:

And remember, with any great tragedy comes great opportunity to spread fake stories about whatever the gently caress. Buzzfeed is compiling a list of fake stories or troll accounts using the vegas shooting to spread fake poo poo.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/here-are-all-the-hoaxes-being-spread-about-the-las-vegas?bftwnews&utm_term=.hb0oRKmENy#.sqGyoEvwA5

Thanks. Immediately posted to FB

Im Ready for DEATH
Oct 5, 2016



Looking forward to this thread as an unbiased news source. Already drove to work listening to NPR talk about assault rifles, WRT the pulse shooting, Rep. Scalise shooting, etc.

My thoughts are if this actually turns out to be an assault rifle the media will call it something else like a machine gun. I say that because the video and the audio sounds like automatic gunfire.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit



College Slice

fknlo posted:

It was just reported on the news that he was dead when the police entered the room. Why can't these people just put a loving bullet in their head first?

e: "over 50 dead" according to the Las Vegas Sheriff's Department.

Fame. My theory is it's caused by a feeling that a lot of people get where they feel some part of their generally worthless being needs to live on forever, and since most people are decidedly average and best forgotten they forcibly write their name in history with blood, possibly the easiest way to gain a lasting fame in the modern era no matter how old or ugly you are or poo poo your personality is. Guarantee you a year or two of completely and totally unpersoning mass shooters - no name, as little info as possible, no pictures, treat them like they're loving animals who were never human in the first place instead of plastering their names all over the TV for weeks at a time - and we'd start seeing it subside in favor of another way that causes them to be remembered (if I had to guess, a return to targeted assassinations of people who are already famous like what went down with Lennon and Reagan).

I mean poo poo, loving Harris and Klebold are still known and revered by some majorly broken people and that was before we hit the era of having 15 stations of 24/7 news plus social media.

Steeltalon
Feb 14, 2012

Perps were uncooperative.




Loling at the shock of GBSers figuring out you can fit 1000 rounds of ammo in .50cal can.

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

I hope Puerto Rico got all the aid they needed already because they're not going to be on anyone's minds for a while now.

Numlock
May 19, 2007


Black Lives Matter

Cyrano you need to give up this quixotic quest of pretending that people in TFR don't have political opinions and our hobby isn't intertwined with politics and culture such that simple ownership of a gun is a massive political and cultural statement in of itself.

Its bullshit and toxic to our hobby, which is hosed long term thanks to bullshit like Las Vegas if we can't have open and honest discussions within it about the political issues that effect it.

If there are individuals who can't handle posting with others who have differences of opinion then do your job and probate/ban them until they grow up or gently caress off to whatever echo chamber poo poo-hole forum of their choice. I know being a mod is a thankless and awful job but if you don't want to do it just quit.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



stealie72 posted:

edit: whelp, could have checked the GiP CE thread myself: lots of people saying it sounds like an AK.

That's my guess. From the video, it's a pretty similar rate of fire.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Slidefire stock, trigger crank, echo/bianry trigger, or illegal FA conversion? ROF sounded like it varied a little bit.


Good thing I have social anxiety and avoid mass gatherings of people. Concerts seem like such soft targets to hit.

Smiling Jack
Dec 2, 2001

I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.



Sounds fully automatic so:

1. Legally possessed NFA
2. Stolen Military / LE / NFA weapon
3. Modified weapon
4. Contraband full auto weapon (smuggled back from 'Nam or something)

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





Have a friend in Vegas that was at the concert. Luckily she is physically mostly ok, possibly an injury from the crazy exodus. But seeing people shot 10ft from you, probably will be having nightmares from that. I've already said to please seek counseling.

In a mental daze at work now personally just from concern for her.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



ZebraBlade posted:

Slidefire stock, trigger crank, echo/bianry trigger, or illegal FA conversion? ROF sounded like it varied a little bit.

It sounded like a slidefire to me. Fairly consistent ROF that you don't get with a crank or binary trigger, but had enough variation that I don't think it was an actual machinegun.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



Numlock posted:

Cyrano you need to give up this quixotic quest of pretending that people in TFR don't have political opinions and our hobby isn't intertwined with politics and culture such that simple ownership of a gun is a massive political and cultural statement in of itself.

Its bullshit and toxic to our hobby, which is hosed long term thanks to bullshit like Las Vegas if we can't have open and honest discussions within it about the political issues that effect it.

If there are individuals who can't handle posting with others who have differences of opinion then do your job and probate/ban them until they grow up or gently caress off to whatever echo chamber poo poo-hole forum of their choice. I know being a mod is a thankless and awful job but if you don't want to do it just quit.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=46

We've already got a forum up there where we can debate and discuss such things with others who have differences of opinion.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Shamelessly stolen from GiP current events thread.

Gobbeldygook posted:

Stolen from the GBS thread, here's a non-graphic video.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/914735357408808960/pu/vid/720x1280/nLaK9UEK0mzBJrh5.mp4

The rate of fire is really weird. I extracted the audio and imported it into audacity.



I count about 90 peaks, so if the video missed the first second or so and each peak is a gunshot (which I think they are) that would suggest he was using 100 round drum mags.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Numlock posted:

Cyrano you need to give up this quixotic quest of pretending that people in TFR don't have political opinions and our hobby isn't intertwined with politics and culture such that simple ownership of a gun is a massive political and cultural statement in of itself.

Its bullshit and toxic to our hobby, which is hosed long term thanks to bullshit like Las Vegas if we can't have open and honest discussions within it about the political issues that effect it.

If there are individuals who can't handle posting with others who have differences of opinion then do your job and probate/ban them until they grow up or gently caress off to whatever echo chamber poo poo-hole forum of their choice. I know being a mod is a thankless and awful job but if you don't want to do it just quit.

We tried unfettered political discussion for years and it made the whole forum toxic as all gently caress. It's not just an issue of people acting like dicks, it's a larger issue of people deciding that anyone who isn't as woke as them or as unflinchingly single issue in their protection of the 2A or whatever is essentially a class enemy unworthy of respect. It's never an ongoing discussion of guns in American politics, it's always a perpetual poo poo drizzle of POTUS tweets and whether disagreeing with black lives matter makes you a fascist or a super fascist.

The feedback I've gotten on killing the political discussion has been overwhelmingly positive, for what that's worth, and from people on both sides of the political aisle.

Is this a really lovely compromise? Yes. But frankly it' the loving best I can do. Not out of a desire to get out of doing work as a mod (seriously - go gently caress yourself, I put more hours into this bullshit than I have in some part time jobs) but out of a desire to see TFR function as a gun forum. There are a million and a half places on the internet where you can go talk about politics, and almost as many where you can go talk about gun politics.

Here's the secret: TFR isn't a forum in and of itself, it's a sub-forum on a comedy website. If this were a no bullshit gun forum I would create a politics only subforum, appoint two mods for it of roughly opposite political persuasions, and proceed to never go in it myself. This is the general strategy of every other gun forum you can name, from ARF to old fart muzzle loader boards. Trying that with a single politics thread didn't work here, unfortunately, probably because not having it be its own sub-forum kept it in proximity to everything else.

I'll agree that the linkage between politics and guns as a hobby is toxic as hell and will probably be the death of recreational shooting in the US. In the end, though, TFR isn't the place that is going to stop that trend with our learned discussions about the twitter related scandal du jour. If you really want to get involved in pro-gun political activism there are literally thousands of message boards on the internet where you can get involved, all the way from the national level to the local. At the end of the day I'm trying to keep this community right here going, so that's going to be my major concern. The old politics thread was in no uncertain terms killing it, so it had to go.

edit: that said, the best way to snap the linkage between politics and guns is to take non-gun-owning friends shooting and introduce them to the hobby in as apolitical an atmosphere as possible. If someone wants to start a thread about how to do that and show all of your democrat-voting friends that guns aren't evil, that would be fine and great. Just because we're not going to naval gaze over Trump's feud with the NFL or whether Sanders cost Clinton the election doesn't mean we cant talk about ways to bring people who might not be the typical gun owning demographic into the hobby.

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Oct 2, 2017

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


Numlock posted:

Cyrano you need to give up this quixotic quest of pretending that people in TFR don't have political opinions and our hobby isn't intertwined with politics and culture such that simple ownership of a gun is a massive political and cultural statement in of itself.

Its bullshit and toxic to our hobby, which is hosed long term thanks to bullshit like Las Vegas if we can't have open and honest discussions within it about the political issues that effect it.

If there are individuals who can't handle posting with others who have differences of opinion then do your job and probate/ban them until they grow up or gently caress off to whatever echo chamber poo poo-hole forum of their choice. I know being a mod is a thankless and awful job but if you don't want to do it just quit.

There are other places for it. We're fine without a politics thread and there's no real way to police it well enough to make it really productive. And I say this as someone who was perfectly fine and happy constantly rolling around in the poo poo-trough that was the old politics thread.

Edit: beaten and with more content by the man himself

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

stealie72 posted:

Shamelessly stolen from GiP current events thread.

Do they even make 100 round ak drum mags? I thought the only reliable ones were the 75rd Romanian ones.

Smiling Jack
Dec 2, 2001

I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.



the politics thread had a poster do a frame by frame analysis of a cell phone video looking for Obama's erection and the media cover up of said supposed erection

it belongs dead

Conquest7706
May 20, 2007


Shima Honnou posted:

Guarantee you a year or two of completely and totally unpersoning mass shooters - no name, as little info as possible, no pictures, treat them like they're loving animals who were never human in the first place instead of plastering their names all over the TV for weeks at a time

This.

Gom Jabbar
Oct 3, 2005
The high-handed enemy

My parents live in Vegas, hope they didn't start liking country.

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day



This is absolutely the right thing to do and it will not happen unless it is made a law of some kind.

To be honest I would be pretty okay if not naming mass shooters on primetime television was one of the exceptions to free speech.

LimburgLimbo fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Oct 2, 2017

timma85
Feb 13, 2006


I feel like the internet undercuts that whole idea. Even if 24/7 news didn't mention the guys name weirdos on the internet would find out and spread it around.

Numlock
May 19, 2007


Black Lives Matter

Coxswain Balls posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=46

We've already got a forum up there where we can debate and discuss such things with others who have differences of opinion.

No we don't.

I don't want to talk to a bunch of college campus Marxists about guns and gun politics.

I want to talk to other gun owners about gun politics and related poo poo.

That can't happen in d&d and anybody suggesting otherwise is a fool or liar.

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

I think the news putting it up and making mentioned that it happened IS news. It happened, we have a lot injured/dead, shooter is dead on scene - end of story other than possibly updates on critical injuries passing.

Wolf Blitzer getting up and walking through a special effects graphical of the shooters "Breakdown to Armageddon" and going into in-depth post-partum psychoanalysis and obtaining his "manifesto" is just over the top.

I don't think a "law" could be made about not discussing all that because that's a first amendment, free speech cavern.

If it bleeds it leads, and there is a lot of blood with this one.


[quote="“Numlock”" post="“476976221”"]
I want to talk to other gun owners about gun politics and related poo poo.
[/quote]

Creating an echo chamber doesn't make much good either in a discussion. Being comfortable because you only talk to other people who have nearly similar views puts us in the exact political situation we saw this last election.

hagie fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Oct 2, 2017

Smiling Jack
Dec 2, 2001

I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.



yeah but we've objectively shown it can't happen here either

stgdz
Nov 3, 2006

158 grains of smiley powered justice

Apparently battlefield vegas provided some of their vehicles to the cops last night.

uncle w benefits
Nov 1, 2010

hi, it's me, your uncle


LimburgLimbo posted:

This is absolutely the right thing to do and it will not happen unless it is made a law of some kind.

To be honest I would be pretty okay if not naming mass shooters on printing television was one of the exceptions to free speech.

That would need to be an ethical choice made by news organizations, like trying to starve chaos by choosing to not acknowledge them. Do not legislate away one part of free speech.

Otherwise you get the Horus Heresy

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


timma85 posted:

I feel like the internet undercuts that whole idea. Even if 24/7 news didn't mention the guys name weirdos on the internet would find out and spread it around.

Internet weirdos will always find poo poo. It's not about some weirdos knowing who did it, it's about crazy people getting fame and notoriety by killing, and getting that critical mass.

People in general are not that smart, and not that creative. They tend to follow the example of others. We should provide less reward (fame) to people for being asshats, and stop vigorously highlighting examples of lovely behavior, because people *will* imitate it.

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BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


SpartanIV posted:

Do they even make 100 round ak drum mags? I thought the only reliable ones were the 75rd Romanian ones.

BeAuMaN posted:

Hold my beer.

https://twitter.com/davidsakach/status/914730995147870208
Take to...
http://twittervideodownloader.com

Then drop to 0.13x speed in MPC... uhhh... just over 100 rounds from 00:06 to 00:16?
Could be off +/- 5 rounds.

That's just doing it in a very simple way and counting "shots" that I heard. That also means that the RPM is roughly 600 RPM. At least for the first part during that clip. This is an easy enough method that anyone can test themselves. He had "multiple guns", whatever that means, so he could have mag dumped a few different ones. He could have underloaded mags too because gently caress drum mags. It's all speculation until the evidence comes in, but perhaps it's a useful distraction

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