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CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus


Digirat posted:

That was a joke. The thing can be killed in half a stamina bar with a bolt weapon (in fact it is the fastest way to get bloodstone chunks if you find a super fast floor layout).

Nah I knew the brainsucker post from last thread was a joke, I just mean stuff like

drrockso20 posted:

Also the one next to the ladder leading to them, if mostly because you have to get into melee range to fight that one, while pretty much all of the other ones you can play the range game with if you have the right build

I mean, the dodge and stun have huge windups and are easy to dodge, and they don't really have any other threatening melee attacks. I don't get it??

Digirat posted:

So when you said these candles didn't teleport you anywhere in your dungeon I thought you meant they just sent you to the same room or something (I once ran into some candles at the top of a staircase that just teleported me to the bottom of that staircase). Instead they're so broken they don't even try more than once!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVvk0JyIJ88

While I'm disappointed in these candles, I do find it completely in the spirit of the candles to do this

I also enjoyed the non joke candles that dump you right in the middle of the room with four beasts and four brainsuckers. Glyph was du4whqag for anyone who wants to see this goofy dungeon.


Glad you like the dungeon! poo poo like this is why I love chalices.

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RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.


CodfishCartographer posted:

I mean, the dodge and stun have huge windups and are easy to dodge, and they don't really have any other threatening melee attacks. I don't get it??

I think it's a combination of their grab attack having a lot of armor, reach and tracking, so you can't just stunlock them with a Saw Cleaver like you can a lot of other small enemies. They need more respect than they look like they should.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

I've found reality to
be highly over-rated!


I really suck at dodging the stun, and they can almost stunlock you if you don't mash dodge (and maybe sometimes even if you do). That's my beef with them.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006

Silent Majority
DESTROYER OF WORLDS



quality thread title A+

Stick Figure Mafia
Dec 11, 2004

We've run outta retro!

Mason Dixon posted:

I'm going to pretend the original thread is now an abandoned Hunter's Dream after it caught on fire.

Also, I want to go looking for some especially nasty FRC chalice dungeons, for some reason.



Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009




The Moon Monster posted:

I was responding to the general brainsucker discussion, not saying they made chunk farming too difficult.

My bad. I thought it was since upper cathedral has five of them and I loving hate them so much.

Coughing Hobo
Jun 29, 2005

If I'm to choose between one evil and another,
I'd rather not choose at all.


Stupid dog, you're makin' me fear the old blood!

Only registered members can see post attachments!

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

it's so magical


Thats amazing, holy poo poo.

Captainicus
Feb 22, 2013


I didn't think cowardly dog, I thought TURN OFF MY PAIN INHIBITORS, DOK, though Doktor still has a bit of hair left...

Captainicus fucked around with this message at Oct 8, 2017 around 11:52

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Coughing Hobo posted:

Stupid dog, you're makin' me fear the old blood!



I was just about to post that, someone needs to make a Muriel as well, although I'm not sure what weapon would make for a good stand in for her rolling pin

Imhotep
Nov 16, 2009




I was the one that got slagged off for getting killed by defiled Amy's laser on my first attempt (I was dumb and literally turned the camera the other way to run and heal and rolled into my death), but I got the platinum like a day or two after finally. And gently caress, I was expecting the last dungeon to be easy since people were saying how easy it was after the defiled dungeon, but I think I got killed more times by the Pthumerian Descendent than I should have, I eventually figured out that you just have to visceral him, at least with Ludwig's holy blade and with like no arcane/bloodtinge, but I killed the Queen on my first try at least, I just beast blood pellet'd it and wrecked her in what seemed like a minute.

Anyways, I think my last post got eaten by the old thread, but I was posting about how good IGN's let's play Prepare to Try is, basically just three English guys (or two and one Welsh guy), but the one who's the worst at the Souls games is playing it, and I look forward to new episodes more than anything else right now (I guess since Twin Peaks is over I have nothing besides podcasts to look forward to weekly), but it's pretty great, I found out a lot of interesting lore from Daniel Kruper, the guy who sits in the middle, just bits that I'd never heard Vaatividya or anyone else bring up, like the little slugs in the orphanage possibly being kids bred with Ebreitas since they look like they have little wings and the similarity in their shape, and other interesting little details. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8i6uTlqpbQ this is one of the most recent episodes, but I recommend watching it from episode 1, especially because there's lots of jokes that are references to older episodes. They've also done Dark Souls 1 and 3 but I think the Bloodborne ones are better, but probably because I know the game inside and out now and barely played any of Dark Souls 1-3.

Imhotep fucked around with this message at Oct 8, 2017 around 11:41

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009



drrockso20 posted:

I was just about to post that, someone needs to make a Muriel as well, although I'm not sure what weapon would make for a good stand in for her rolling pin

The wheel, duh

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Honestly I can't stand Let's Plays where the people doing it suck at the game(which is most of them), especially since for some reason they often take forever to figure out even the simplest of mechanics(not to mention this often leads to the gameplay itself being boring to watch due to the people playing either using incredibly suboptimal moves, or falling into a rut of focusing on a specific move they've found effective)

Would love to see a Let's Play where the person doing the playing has been fully informed ahead of time of all the controls and most of the major gameplay mechanics, but is otherwise completely blind to what the game is about or it's lore

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

I've found reality to
be highly over-rated!


There's some nice LPs where the player is blind but has one or more co-commentators who guide them. Geop's famous Dark Souls 1 LP, for example. I mean he's still struggling a lot, but he's not "HUH WHAT DO I DO HOW DO WEAPON WERK???" at any point.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Simply Simon posted:

There's some nice LPs where the player is blind but has one or more co-commentators who guide them. Geop's famous Dark Souls 1 LP, for example. I mean he's still struggling a lot, but he's not "HUH WHAT DO I DO HOW DO WEAPON WERK???" at any point.

The weird thing is I've seen Let's Plays where the person playing is incompetent despite having beaten the game before or having played a previous entry, like a lore focused Bloodborne one that got posted in the last thread a couple months ago, guy for some reason kept trying too hard to parry every enemy he fought, not to mention he chose the cane as his starting weapon and mostly used it in sword form even though that's probably one of the most boring movesets in the entire game to use, let alone watch

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

I've found reality to
be highly over-rated!


I noticed that some people (I'm not even omitting myself) are really stuck in using "what works [for them]", and for many people Saw Cleaver R1 only is what helped them get through the game the first time. Then if they're super boring (I watched the GameGrumps BB LP and Arin does that) they'll just do that for the second playthrough, exactly the same, which I can't quite wrap my head around but I guess if you really want the LP to be able to conclude...
Or they take another weapon, but still only use the untransformed R1s. I suspect that happens to a lot of people who complain that the Cane sucks, which it does if you only ever R1 it and abandon it before your skill reaches 20+ and it reaches 6+.

I like to try new stuff all the time and am really into diverse movesets, so I don't have that "problem" (it doesn't need to be one, if you're having fun that's cool), but I noticed that I often try to be waaay to tricky, parry everything that can be parried, go for limb breaks, do things "properly", when I really really should be R1ing the poo poo out of enemies instead. Ebrietas took me longer than most bosses because I kept going for head hits only, when I really just should have slashed her flabby rear end because that just works, even though it's not "elegant".

JBP
Feb 16, 2017



I don't understand just going with R1s either. As soon as I worked out the kirkhammer transform attack from sword into hammer I was using it all the time just to see it more than it working well (it also works well).

Captainicus
Feb 22, 2013


I definitely feel the same way, I usually keep going for transform attacks or dash past enemy and try charged r2 or double r2 combo with weapons that can do it, much to my detriment. I actually found it hard to adjust going back to DS2, where you only had r1 combo and r2. I'm definitely more of a 'try all the different things in the game' kind of player rather than the 'use something that works and stick to it' kind of player.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

I've found reality to
be highly over-rated!


I'm playing DS2 right now and I'm constantly changing my weapons like I'm hitting L1 in BB, haha. I tried the Majestic Greatsword because it's left-handed and then gains a completely different moveset, but then you can't backstab so I have a dagger in the right hand, but you need all stats for the MG so I am also a Hexer, and of course you can also cast Pyromancy...

So basically I'm switching around my hands like a lunatic firing Dank Orbs or exploding fools and occasionally I'll swing a sword around with my "weak" hand. It's so much fun, DS2 owns.

I probably will swap the sword for something else soon, though. Maybe the Wrathful Axe. The MG's big selling point is a somersault strike like you're Artorias (it's his sword), but it does piss for damage and never hits .

Imhotep
Nov 16, 2009




Yeah, I mean I agree with all of you, although I think the main appeal is that there's three of them and they all have good chemistry and it's just funny. Plus one of them has actually played it before and besides bringing up lots of interesting lore, he'll tell him if he's doing something wrong or going somewhere wrong mostly, so yeah I mean he hasn't been informed beforehand but does have someone helping him along plus it's actually edited down to the interesting bits so it's not frustrating watching them and screaming GO THE OTHER WAY YOU DUMBSHIT, etc. plus the editing includes them telling funny stories and it's engaging even when Rory is dying repeatedly/running back to the boss for the nth time. So basically it's worth watching because it cuts out all the poo poo I hate and they're all funny.

But also yeah, I can see the like clueless idiot playing the game being annoying and forced/gimmicky, as well as a thing people do in other let's plays and I was going to like warn you that there is that element to it, but it works here because I think he's actually being genuine and when he does play intelligently there's funny moments where you can see the other two looking impressed, and then you want him to beat the boss.. and it feels like the game in that you're actually sharing the joy in their victory over a boss he's been fighting for two days because you do see him playing better, despite sometimes just doing stupid poo poo. Their banter is way more interesting than any other let's play I've seen (I don't think I've actually ever enjoyed another let's play besides ENB because of his involvement and history with the series and the guides). And I've never come close to even cracking a smile at any other 'funny' let's play, like I think Game Grumps really suck and other more obvious ones are even worse, so the fact that this one has actually made me laugh out loud several times per episode is odd for me because I never thought I'd be trying to convince people a let's play is good, let alone watching one or eagerly awaiting the next episode.

And if you're that concerned over the combat, he switches weapons from the cane (and transforms it, constantly even!), to the holy blade to the whirligig over the duration of the game so far. And uses pebbles on a boss, a novel technique that probably hasn't been brought up in this thread.

But yeah really, I don't know how the gently caress you could play and enjoy this game without employing every type of attack especially because with just your weapons there's only 3 buttons at most. Like with LHB I'm constantly transforming and comboing r1s into L2s, charged R2ing, transforming from little sword into big rear end sword mid rally... and did that even moreso when I started out with the saw cleaver for the extra range when you extend it. Like I legitimately don't know how you could have fun just running around R1ing everything.

Imhotep fucked around with this message at Oct 8, 2017 around 13:31

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Pull up dem pants and get to work


These are the same people who play the Witcher 3 and spend the entire game spamming light attack, but then say the combat is super boring and bad.

Shannow
Aug 30, 2003

Frumious Bandersnatch


Imhotep posted:

I was the one that got slagged off for getting killed by defiled Amy's laser on my first attempt (I was dumb and literally turned the camera the other way to run and heal and rolled into my death), but I got the platinum like a day or two after finally. And gently caress, I was expecting the last dungeon to be easy since people were saying how easy it was after the defiled dungeon, but I think I got killed more times by the Pthumerian Descendent than I should have, I eventually figured out that you just have to visceral him, at least with Ludwig's holy blade and with like no arcane/bloodtinge, but I killed the Queen on my first try at least, I just beast blood pellet'd it and wrecked her in what seemed like a minute.

Anyways, I think my last post got eaten by the old thread, but I was posting about how good IGN's let's play Prepare to Try is, basically just three English guys (or two and one Welsh guy), but the one who's the worst at the Souls games is playing it, and I look forward to new episodes more than anything else right now (I guess since Twin Peaks is over I have nothing besides podcasts to look forward to weekly), but it's pretty great, I found out a lot of interesting lore from Daniel Kruper, the guy who sits in the middle, just bits that I'd never heard Vaatividya or anyone else bring up, like the little slugs in the orphanage possibly being kids bred with Ebreitas since they look like they have little wings and the similarity in their shape, and other interesting little details. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8i6uTlqpbQ this is one of the most recent episodes, but I recommend watching it from episode 1, especially because there's lots of jokes that are references to older episodes. They've also done Dark Souls 1 and 3 but I think the Bloodborne ones are better, but probably because I know the game inside and out now and barely played any of Dark Souls 1-3.

Seconding this, I started watching from the first Dark Souls 1 ep where Rory was so loving awful watching it was a total car crash. He's pretty good mechanically at the games by now, he's just often an idiot, but it's one of the most entertaining LPs i've watched.

Imhotep
Nov 16, 2009




I mean he does kill Gascoigne in one go, so he's not bad, but did play DS1 and 3 before Bloodborne so I guess he did have to get good before Bloodborne. But yeah, I don't know why I linked to the 16th episode, you need to watch from the start to get the backstory behind the character, Finchy, the banter carriage, Gavin getting a handjob in a park, etc. Also it'd just be plain confusing if you don't have any context for why they poo poo on Miyazaki and why Rory calls the little frenzy inducing slugs in the upper cathedral "Michaels".

DeafNote
Jun 4, 2014

My first day on the internet


quote:

I was the one that got slagged off for getting killed by defiled Amy's laser on my first attempt (I was dumb and literally turned the camera the other way to run and heal and rolled into my death), but I got the platinum like a day or two after finally. And gently caress, I was expecting the last dungeon to be easy since people were saying how easy it was after the defiled dungeon, but I think I got killed more times by the Pthumerian Descendent than I should have, I eventually figured out that you just have to visceral him, at least with Ludwig's holy blade and with like no arcane/bloodtinge, but I killed the Queen on my first try at least, I just beast blood pellet'd it and wrecked her in what seemed like a minute.

Its okay
I hate the Descendant as well
enough to just pop a lead elixer and tank it out

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Pull up dem pants and get to work


LOL Descendant sucks in that room with all the columns and the drag on his cape is designed to gently caress up your dodge and parry timings and it took me so long to figure that out.

One of the hallmarks of Bloodborne is how much I can hate every boss until I beat them and then I'm like "wow that is the best boss fight ever"

Except for darkbeasts.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

What am I, the button pusher?


Since people are talking about lp's, it is time to shill mine again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Pzx_ihARU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfrDfjvG1h8

Please watch it I put a whole lot of effort into it. More effort than most people put into let's plays, because I am a crazy person.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


tweet my meat posted:

So how do I go about making a skill/arcane hybrid that primarily uses skill weapons while having the versatility of spells? I was thinking of sticking with the threaded cane and kitting it out with arcane gems since I wanna keep using it.

Guess this thread is the new one, I'll repost here

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

I've found reality to
be highly over-rated!


Skill/Arcane is a stat combination that doesn't really have much going for it, I'm afraid. Much like a theoretical Bloodtinge/Arcane build, there's just no real overlap. If you make a weapon elemental, its original physical scaling becomes meaningless: only the arcane scaling counts now. So it doesn't matter that the cane used to be a Skill weapon, if you make it e.g. fire, it's now a pure Arcane weapon.

Unless you want to swap gems out all the time...

I mean, you can certainly spec for it and just use the Cane while firing ranged shots with your Tools, but there's no real synergy.

Digirat
Sep 14, 2011

stinking
rat-vole
rodent
piece of
TRASH


If you change the damage type of a weapon from physical to element you're going to get 0 benefit from skill except visceral damage.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas;


ARC/SKL works with the Blades of Mercy and the Burial Blade. I can see BOMs and an Augur being a fearsome combo, especially since Arcane gives you the reach that your melee weapons lack.

Rayjenkins
Oct 2, 2011



Darth Walrus posted:

ARC/SKL works with the Blades of Mercy and the Burial Blade. I can see BOMs and an Augur being a fearsome combo, especially since Arcane gives you the reach that your melee weapons lack.

This is basically what I did as soon as I could get Blades of Mercy (Yes I murdered Aileen like a shitpiece). Then I got Burial Blade and holy poo poo between the phenomenal moveset on that thing and the arcane tools I was dunking whatever I ran into. Granted, this wasn't until the endgame, but I felt very rewarded with the end product. Just required a fair bit more work to get it to, well, work.

Digirat
Sep 14, 2011

stinking
rat-vole
rodent
piece of
TRASH


Arcane scaling gives you a negligible part of the damage on blade of mercy and burial blade. It's a tiny bonus which will be nice if you're building for arcane tools anyway, but skill is going to give you the great majority of your damage and until you get a lot of skill you're going to be far better off converting an all physical weapon into an element weapon.

I can't think of any split damage weapons that are actually good with only an investment in arcane and not the strength/skill that scales the physical part of their damage. I would pick something versatile like the beast cutter or beast hunter saif and main that as an elemental weapon until you're at the point where you have enough skill to make a physical/arcane weapon worth it. This won't happen until depth 4 or so if you're prioritizing arcane for your tools.

Rayjenkins
Oct 2, 2011



Digirat posted:

Arcane scaling gives you a negligible part of the damage on blade of mercy and burial blade. It's a tiny bonus which will be nice if you're building for arcane tools anyway, but skill is going to give you the great majority of your damage and until you get a lot of skill you're going to be far better off converting an all physical weapon into an element weapon.

I can't think of any split damage weapons that are actually good with only an investment in arcane and not the strength/skill that scales the physical part of their damage. I would pick something versatile like the beast cutter or beast hunter saif and main that as an elemental weapon until you're at the point where you have enough skill to make a physical/arcane weapon worth it. This won't happen until depth 4 or so if you're prioritizing arcane for your tools.

Yeah you're definitely right. I just chose to be difficult and stuck with the Blades of Mercy before moving onto the Burial Blade.

Also, I'm gonna spend the night getting crunk and doing chalice dungeon stuff, but I'm feeling like engaging in some jolly co-op if anyone needs help with anything or just wants to pal around. Add me as RayjenkinsSA or post I guess.

Edit: Don't expect help now, but still add me and ask whenever.

Rayjenkins fucked around with this message at Oct 9, 2017 around 04:35

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


So what kind of Arc investment do I need for the hunter tools to be worth it as a side thing?

I mostly want to use skill and arcane because I focused on str with a bit of bloodtinge on my last playthrough I never finished.

tweet my meat fucked around with this message at Oct 8, 2017 around 23:39

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

What am I, the button pusher?


Depends on which you want to use. Ones like Beast Roar and the Old Hunter's Bone don't benefit at all past the requirement to use them because they're auxillary tools... but the Executioner's Gloves and A Call Beyond fuckin' massacre dudes with high arcane.

edit:

The ones that benefit from upping arcane past their requirements are:
Accursed Brew
Blacksky Eye
Executioner's Gloves
Tiny Tonitrus
A Call Beyond
Augur of Ebrietas (debatable, its damage goes quite high but it's better used for parrying)

The ones that don't are:
Beast Roar
Empty Phantasm Shell
Old Hunter's Bone
Choir Bell
Madaras Whistle (actually scales with/requires bloodtinge but it's a tool too so shrug)
Messenger's Gift

CJacobs fucked around with this message at Oct 8, 2017 around 23:42

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


How good is empty shell? That's just a weapon buff right? Also Augur looks pretty cool.

I'd like to have one ranged damage tool, but I understand if that's not viable on a more skill focused build.

Rayjenkins
Oct 2, 2011



tweet my meat posted:

So what kind of Arc investment do I need for the hunter tools to be worth it as a side thing?

I mostly want to use skill and arcane because I focused on str with a bit of bloodtinge on my last playthrough I never finished.

Fair warning that if you actually want damaging arcane tools to be useful, you'll need to invest heavily. It's not uncommon to max it out to 99 if you're going for damage, but this is totally worth it since arcane is unique in that the scaling can INCREASE when you're 80+ deep into it.

Take a look at this to get a better idea of what I mean: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...t#gid=809286738

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

What am I, the button pusher?


tweet my meat posted:

How good is empty shell? That's just a weapon buff right? Also Augur looks pretty cool.

I'd like to have one ranged damage tool, but I understand if that's not viable on a more skill focused build.

Empty shell ads 80 arcane damage to your right hand weapon. It's pretty useful for enemies with no arc resistance or are weak to it, because on them it'll do way more than +80. The +80 is also modified by critical hits, visceral attacks/ripostes, and counters. It's pretty good for almost any build as long as you have the arc to use it, really.

As for ranged damage tools, imo the Executioner's Gloves are the way to go. 3-ish homing projectiles for only 3 bullets that each do a ton of damage and it scales S with arcane. And it can be found in Cainhurst so it's relatively early on in the game too.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


Ok, so my loadout would probably be shell, augur, and gloves, with slightly inefficient stats for the gloves since I'm splitting between skill and arcane. Still probably more damage than my pistol though, and I'll enjoy having the flexibility.

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drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Worth mentioning that both the gloves and augur will clown over a lot of bosses and NPC Hunters Cause their AI can't handle it

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