Legend of the Five Rings: Coming soon: L5R The Flamethrower!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Legend of the Five Rings: Coming soon: L5R The Flamethrower!

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Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

One thing that kinda matters is that to most of the population in Rokugan the Scorpion are not evil plotting ninja fucks. There's no real reason for other characters to distrust a Scorpion in particular, emnity between Clans is mostly based on borders.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2017 23:13

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:46

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Mugaaz posted:

Any word if the remake of the L5R LCG is any good?

With the caveat I've not played many games I would say it is good. Its slow and thoughful, every turn is a massive bag of choices. The sheer level of choices and interaction is somewhat dizzying, its not a casual game i would say.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2017 10:17

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

I really hope they don't bring back the Shadowlands as a playable faction in the LCG. It's an external corrupting influence tainting the great clans.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2017 17:20

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

Counterpoint: Spider Clan was the most interesting thing to happen in the setting in a decade.

I just don't think they work mechanically or thematically.

Better option make 1,000 Years of Darkness the canon storyline.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2017 18:53

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Yawgmoth posted:

I also want to see Spider Clan show up again, but with 100% less Daigot Sue. Spurned younger brother of the emperor who fucks off to the shadowlands with "fine, I'll make my own empire! With blackjack, and hookers!" is fine and good, but holy poo poo just about everything else was dumb as hell. Just let them be the subtle infiltrators trying to rot the empire from the inside, that's an interesting-ish angle to run with.

The problem with that to an extent is that Shadowland's taint itself is also a creeping insidious evil, along with the Kolat if they bring them back and the Scorpion if you're one of the 6 other clans. You end up with too many creeping insidious evils. For a faction to work in the game it has to come from within the system of the great clans or why would they give a poo poo about your court games. They've got a lot of mileage with the three man alliance and tainting of great clans to go through first I think.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 09:15

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

The best storyline changes from tournaments where always the unintended ones. Lion became corrupt because they were all using Oni No Akuma. That's what I'd like to see back, if Scorpion with Crab makes a splash at tournaments maybe they become best buds in the storyline etc.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 13:04

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

Im not sure "having part of the setting exist" counts as a story beat

They can exist just not be a playable faction because it's dumb. If you look at the time line for L5R it was just insanely dumb, there's 6 years between Rain of Blood and the Destroyer War.

Scorpion Clan Coup happens in 1123 then it's under 50 years until the founding of the Spider Clan, that's mad.

With the reset of storyline it would be good if they just didn't do the Scorpion Clan Coup at all as banishing one of the factions is also an insanely bad idea for a game.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 16:40

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

I disagree with pretty much all of this. I think the way they earned their status was interesting

Yes I mean after attempting to assassinate the leaders of every great clan it sure makes sense that they would turn round and say 'Whelp your leaders dead so I guess you hideously corrupt and unashamedly evil people get to be a great clan now' and everyone's just fine with that.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 16:44

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

They sent them the gently caress away. It was basically a bribe to get them to gently caress off to the unexplored lands.

As opposed to murdering every single last one of them because they were evil? I mean one of the families sole purpose is the annihilation of all people in Rokugan. Clan's have been purged from existence before for simply thinking about being tainted, it just makes no sense and gets forced in there from Storyline choices.

quote:

ain't never played any of the games for this franchise but i read some of the novels as a lad, and the scorpion coup was a great story. bayushi shoju was right

Shoju did nothing wrong!

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 16:58

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

PaybackJack posted:

Giving him a sword that corrupted him was basically an out to all the other clans so they could go 'See, he was evil!'

Pretty much the entire L5R storyline is no clan every being able to truly accomplish anything great because as soon as one starts to rise above the pack, the hands of the masses reach out to drag them back to the level of mediocrity that most rest at.

Yeah, I voted for the Khan to take over too.

It's the Crab's Fault

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 17:11

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

Good luck with that. They had the backing of the commoners and were one of the most powerful military forces in Rokugan at the time. Challenging the Spider would have been a great way to overthrow the entire Empire. And the clan as a whole renounced the ways of Jigoku in order to get great clan status also, so much so that the Chuda hosed right out.

Except they let the Chuda straight back in there 20 years later. You're kinda making my point though in one way, that the storyline was insane. That a group of people no one had ever heard of 20 years before was suddenly so vast and powerful it could overthrow the whole Empire. That's just dumb.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 17:59

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

Are FFG packs generally like the Doomtown Reloaded ones, where each one yields a full playset?

Yes, the Netrunner packs where all playsets of every card.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 20:19

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

Well that is something at least. This is going to make my fencesitting friends even more skeptical though, that's a big initial purchase

Yeah its basically a £210 buy in right at the start.

Its fine for the ultra spergs like me but it sounds really discouraging to new players.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 20:25

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Cinnamon Bear posted:

I was apparently dumb enough to never break it then! I was young and not a good player. How'd it work?

It was called FORD, Fox, Oni and Ratling. Basically it broke one of the fundamental rules and reduced costs to 0 so the Ratling Guy who could pay for other Ratlings cost 1 or 0 when you got the event that made them in clan. Along with Akuma and Turso No Oni and your free fox shujengas you could blast out a huge amount of force very quickly.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2017 08:03

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

HidaO-Win posted:

It's the same price point as previous though, just compressed a bit. The advantage is deck construction options for the Dynasty side now actually exist and the constructed format will have a lot more actual choice.

The drip feed dynasty packs are a good model for tricking people into spending a small amount of money, but it's actually bad for the metagame as a whole.

Additionally apparently 70% of LCG players never buy the dynasty packs, just the core set and the deluxes, which probably means the model is due for revision.

To say it's the same price point is totally disingenuous, a pack a week for 6 weeks is in no way the same at a pack a month for 6 months. There's basically no reason to split them over the 6 weeks really, just dump them all out in week 1 and be done with it.

I really think this could be very damaging to the uptake of the game amongst some people. Either people thinking about starting or people who just have starters to say then in 2 month you're going to want to buy another �90 worth of cards on top of the �105 they spent on starters is risky. Yeah you might be able to pick up some in a sale on black friday but that's hardly the point. Making it so soon after the core release just makes the core release seem even more incomplete.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2017 11:20

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

alansmithee posted:

You know, you don't have to immediately buy 3 starters. Or all 6 chapter packs. Like, it's totally an option.

And honestly, $15 a week isn't much at all. If you're a dude who already managed to get 3 cores, you can swing spending $90 over 6 weeks as opposed to 24. And if you can't, you probably didn't have any business buying 3 cores to start with.

I mean yeah if 'poors get out' is what you want in your game then it's fine. Right now you simply cannot build a fun deck from a single core, just impossible. So that's off putting for people not already invested in the game. Try to think about someone swithering over if they should get into the game or not, 3 cores is pretty much non negotiable to build a fun deck maybe 2 if you're prepared to compromise. So now it looks like it's a $200 buy in to start playing the game properly. Now that's nothing to a CCG nerd but if there were enough CCG nerds playing L5R already then it wouldn't have died in the first place.

All it does is give a greater impression that the cores are incomplete. It's not really 6 extra packs, it's a 360 card second part of the base set. Usually places run tourney once a month or something so it's not as if there will be an evolving meta with the packs, splitting them out is just weird.

Like I say maybe it's fine, but I thin it's a risk that they'll put people off. Doesn't make much difference to me as I'll buy it anyway, I just hope they don't kill it before it really starts to get going.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2017 17:04

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

alansmithee posted:

As I said, if you're able to afford dropping the 100 bucks or so on three cores right out the gate, you're nowhere near poor. And while I'll easily admit a single core isn't a great experience, two makes it much better. And as for the packs, nothing forces you to buy them immediately. You can buy just the ones you want cards from, or none, or wait. If you're not playing in a competitive area it doesn't really matter (if you really want, use proxies until you get what you need-people do this constantly in MtG). And if you do have a competitive scene, there's a large chance you can borrow what you need.

I just don't see how it's not a good thing. If you don't want/can't afford them right when they come out-just don't buy them! Nothing forces you to buy everything, immediately, all at once. When I started into AGoT 1.0, I got 2 cores and deluxe expansion of the faction I wanted to play (this was when they had about 5-6 cycles out, as well as all the deluxe expansions). I'd then pick and choose which packs to get based on the cards I wanted for whatever deck I was thinking about building. I didn't just immediately buy everything.

Again I'm not talking about the players who can or already have dropped 100 for thier cores. Im talking about the people wondering if its the game for them. L5R does not have enough players to sustain itself so it must attract new ones im not sure this strategy does that.

You say you can simply not buy the sets but the LCG format is explicitly to stop Mr. Suitcase from stomping people. The fun comes from the fact its a level playing field. Do you honestly think that there won't be some chase cards for each faction in each pack? I mean yeah you're free not to buy them but the guy who bought 3 core all the packs has an advantage over the guy who spent less and thats not fun right at the start of your game.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2017 19:30

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Dick Burglar posted:

So... they're Scorpion under another name.

Everyone wants to be the power in the shadows so they just kept adding layers like some sort of subterfuge onion.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2017 21:44

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

adhuin posted:

What can I do with a single starter of L5R? Build non-constructed legal tutorial decks for up to 2 clans at the same time. No extra cards for customization, unless you count swapping clans.

For me that's the worst thing about the Core set, you cannot build a legal deck out. Like it's not a starter set as it's not enough to get you started.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 10:12

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Eschatos posted:

Yeah you can. The rulebook explicitly says that a 30 card deck is legal with one core set.

That's totally bullshit and you know it, people need to stop trying to push that line because it's loving stupid.

You cannot build a normal legal deck from 1 Core, from 2 Cores you get to use every in clan card you get and 12 neutral cards of your choice which is also dog poo poo but at least legal.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 16:43

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

alansmithee posted:

There was literally a giant tournament ran with 1 core only. It's a legal format. It's no different from Magic having different card limits for sealed vs. constructed events.

It's a special format, literally designed for release. Good luck finding a tourney that will allow you to run a 30/30 single core deck against everyone else's 40/40 decks. Even if you do you'll get absolutely pumped. You're not seriously suggesting the Out the Box Play section of the deck building section makes them normal legal decks are you?

# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 17:01

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

alansmithee posted:

Good luck finding a Magic tourney that will allow you to run a 40 card sealed deck against everyone else's 60 card decks. Even if you do you'll get absolutely pumped.

I mean tourney rules also say you have to use opaque card sleeves. Are you bitching because the box doesn't come with opaque card sleeves too?

Also, the getting started kit is set up so that the first event is a 1 core event. So yes, the fact that they're numerous, sanctioned 1-core events on top of rules in the book about 1 core rules makes me think they're legal. They aren't 40/40 decks, they're 30/30 one-core decks. If you're actually serious about going to koteis and whatnot you're not gonna just buy one core anyway so what are you even arguing about? That you don't get everything in the game ever in one core box? I think everyone has admitted it's not the best experience for the game. But it does give you a feel for how the game works and plays, and allows you if you really want to have some duels right out the box.

I have to assume you're just being deliberately obtuse now. A booster draft is in now way the same as buying a starter for a game and it not providing enough cards to build a legal deck.

I've checked all the local tournaments around me, they're all 40/40 constructed. If you've got a single core you're poo poo out of luck. I doubt many places will be running many single core games because it's simply not a good experience out of the box.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 18:22

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

alansmithee posted:

Sealed isn't a booster draft. Booster draft is a different format.

You keep saying a core set won't build a legal deck. That's entirely false. It builds a legal 30/30 deck. Most tournaments now are going to run at 40/40, requiring opaque sleeves. That's because just about everyone who wants to play competitively will buy three cores because it generally gives a better experience. One core is not designed to allow you to play at the competitive, organized play level. It's also not being sold as if it does. You will likely need to buy 3 cores if you want to compete, along with opaque sleeves. Of course, once you've made that purchase, you're now able to make every possible deck available to make. That said, there's absolutely nothing stopping people from organizing 30/30 single core tournaments (besides lack of players wanting to play that format, but that's not what you're arguing).

30/30 is not a legal deck for any reasonable assessment of whats legal. Its the release format which will be played exactly once because its bad. It's legal in a format that no one is going to play so how does it matter that its legal in that context. There will never be another tournament here for single core in all likelihood. So you've got all these players with a single core you can not play in even a casual local tournament with what they've got. I see that as bad for the game, you should be able to buy a starter and play the game which you cannot really do.

FFG have made a good game but trying to defend the distribution is ludicrous. It does not encourage new players into the game which is what they need to so.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 18:51

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

PaybackJack posted:

I get your point that you can't build a legal 40/40 deck from a single core, but disagree with you about the bolded statement. A single core is literally meant to give players a jumping off point into the game, no different than FNM booster drafts are meant to be cheap ways to get new players into Magic. Neither gives new players a viable card base for constructed tournament play, but both serve as cheaper entry points to give the player a chance to get into the game without investing heavily and in a format where the distribution of cards is more favorable to inexperienced players.

I get that its a jumping off point but even with Magic you could always buy a preconstructed and go play a regular tournament with that if you fancied.

Im really talking about the impression it gives people thinking about playing the game. Single core games are not that fun and no one is going to willing play them that often. So you're left telling people 'yeah your single core sucked and the game wasn't that much fun but just spend another 70 bucks and you'll be fine' on top of that youre basically excluded from all the local tournaments. Even at casual nights here everyones playing 40/40. If they had made it so you could build a legal 40/40 deck out of the core then the guy can still go along and play, he won't do well but he can at least play.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 19:24

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

adhuin posted:

That is the whole loving point. 1 starter isn't good enough for even casual play at home.

Exactly, you buy your one starter, it's terrible. You can't go to tournaments, you can't really play casually so you give up. I'm genuinely confused why people are having trouble with why this is bad for getting people into the game.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 19:39

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Bussamove posted:

Characters participating in a conflict are bowed at the resolution segment of that conflict. Bowed characters in a conflict itself retain their skill values, but don't contribute it to your total at the end of a conflict when determining who won. It's effectively 0, but for purposes of cards that compare versus it (i.e. Jade Tetsubo) their skill value is unchanged.

Yup, Shoju doesn't instantly murder any bowed character with his ability for example.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 09:14

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Weissritter posted:

So basically a grandma forces an enemy champion to contribute nothing to a conflict because she gave them gifts?

Yup, they're busy refusing the gifts and shes busy asking them to accept them. That's why you need a chump to go with you to refuse/accept the gifts on his behalf.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 10:17

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

You're going to see some salt about scout + way of the crab which is just really annoying but other than that seems good.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 20:28

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

HidaO-Win posted:

Invest all your fate in a single guy against Crab and you dug your own grave.

Its not just for taking out that one big guys, its amazing tempo control. If you go first and get a scout then you put your opponent in a bind about who they buy as you could instantly kill them.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 21:46

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

admanb posted:

This might not be what you're suggesting, but you can't play Events during the Dynasty phase.

As the other guys have said you absolutely can, youre only not allowed to play attachments and peeps. When you get an opportunity to act you can either pay for a guy or take an action, such as Way of the Crab.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2017 08:10

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

The problem with Shugenja

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

# ¿ Oct 20, 2017 12:17

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

ProfessorCirno posted:

On the note of spell balance, it IS slightly worth noting that the most powerful spell in L5R 4th edition was in fact a level one spell, it's just one that completely hosed the general action economy and simultaniously served as a huge boost to bushi damage.

That's right. It's the AoE prone.

It's always the level 1 AoE prone, in every game.

I think its situational, you could argue the spell that esrased someone from ever existing was more powerful, but then hiw would you know it had ever been cast?

# ¿ Oct 20, 2017 22:27

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Zurui posted:

So, what's the meta looking like? Is there anything broken or abusive in the core that I need to tech for?

Nothing seems broken out of the box. Crab are strong as are Lion and Crane i think. Pheonix are pulling up the rear but theres such scope to gently caress up with bad decisions in the game that the tiers are pretty close. Theres certainly no robo decks yet.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2017 21:52

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

ChuckBTY posted:

Banzai, Court Games and Assassination are probably the 3 most used generic cards. The big thing to note there is out of the three 2 of them cause an honor loss, which so far is one of the factors in making Dishonor decks pretty strong.

So far ive been playing Scorpion Dishonour pretty heavily and won exactly 0 games via dishonour. The closest i got was attacking with 2 Watch Captains when he was on 2 honour but he just let me roll his last province. What dishonour does really well is keep your opponent worrying about honour bids, keeps thier hand under control whilst you whittle them down.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2017 22:02

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Val Helmethead posted:

Also Good Omens exists.

If you can squeeze Greater Glory in there then it can cause a pretty big swing in the game state. Unicorn with Lion splash just seems like a good idea.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2017 18:59

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Pash posted:

Sometimes not paying for expensive guys is better anyway. I won a game against my friend with my Lion deck, cracking two provinces with my Champ despite never actually paying for him to come into play (Charge and Kitsu Spiritcaller). Was pretty great.

Kitsu Spiritcaller is a hell of a closer, bringing in an Honoured General or something like that is a huge swing and very hard to stop.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2017 15:42

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

MoreLikeTen posted:

I'm a little confused about card actions. I assumed they were all once per round, but I just saw Favored Niece which says it's limited to twice per round. Does that mean if someone has a "Gain one fate" action, you can just do that infinitely? I feel like I'm missing something basic.

You can only take an action once per round unless it says otherwise. Favoured Niece just has a different limit which is why it mentions it. Same as Shoju.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2017 12:37

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Finster Dexter posted:

https://mahois.fun/

Ringteki/Jigoku is where I did all my practice for worlds. It has a couple glitches here and there but is actually pretty solid and unlike TTS or VASSAL it actually has all the game mechanics and card interactions programmed into it.

thirding, this is a good client, has all the card interactions etc. If your used to Jinteki Online then its super easy to get going with.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2017 10:01

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Mystic Mongol posted:

All your decks are illegal, time to rebuild everything.

Lion - Keeper of Fire
Crane - Seeker of Air
Dragon - Seeker of Fire
Scorpion - Seeker of Void
Phoenix -Keeper of Water
Crab - Keeper of Earth
Unicorn - Keeper of Wind

e: Are you kidding me, Seeker of Void? Why? This is a serious question I am seriously asking.

e2: Scuttlebutt from people talking to the guy who chose for scorpions (and a facebook post?) is that he did some playtesting and decided that if scorpion got a keeper role they'd be too strong and ruin the game. Hooray! My clan champion is holding us back! I wonder if any of the clans who did better in the tournament are being careful not to pick a good role.

Mark is an excellent player and an all round excellent guy so I respect his decision entirely. Backhand Compliment would have just caused some NPE problems which no one wants. You can complain hes held you back and theres nothing stopping you playing Keeper of Void in casuals just to see how bad it is if you like.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2017 09:54

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:46

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Mystic Mongol posted:

Do any of the other clans have an excellent player and all around good guy making decisions for them?

_{Also what's an NPE}

Probably not, and like I say you can play anything you like casually. When the top 2 Scorpion players in the world look at something and think 'this will be a problem for the game' I'm inclined to listen to them.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2017 17:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Legend of the Five Rings: Coming soon: L5R The Flamethrower!

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