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FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011


Within the bounds of comic TV logic, but I thought it was way better at writing its characters than, say, any other CW show right now.

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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE
Mar 31, 2010

I do believe I may have shit my pants. I hope this accident was worth it for Lowtax' spine.


Fair enough.

IMO this show went from good to great with Mick's voiceover intro in season 2.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:

Fair enough.

IMO this show went from good to great with Mick's voiceover intro in season 2.

That's when it went from "they're laid back and not taking this too seriously" to "they're laid back and not taking this too seriously, and it's clearly on purpose."

Bruceski fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2018 around 02:31

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

xetamang tili du xeta!


The two things about season 1 that were poo are, Vandal Savage is not savage enough, and he's too short. Eternal friendzone.

Hawkman is a blackhole of charisma. thousands of years old, learned nothing about women, or people for that matter.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

A Good Day to
ACTION DUCK


Rocksicles posted:

The two things about season 1 that were poo are, Vandal Savage is not savage enough, and he's too short. Eternal friendzone.

The thing about Savage is he's not supposed to be a grinning knife loving psychopath. He adapts to the cruelty of the times, but he's a planner. The episode where he's posing as a regular 50s suburban dude is probably the closest the show's ever come to his original (comic book) spirit.

Rocksicles posted:

Hawkman is a blackhole of charisma. thousands of years old, learned nothing about women, or people for that matter.

Hawkman was a creepy date rapist and every time he woodenly proclaimed Kendra would fall in love with him no matter what it made me cringe.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


Yeah but that was pretty true to the comic book spirit.

Like Kendra's entire comic book origin is her being this traumatized kid who has this middle aged dude say "YOU ARE MY REINCARNATED WIFE AND ONE TRUE LOVE AND I WILL HAVE YOU UNTIL WE DIE AND ARE REUNITED IN THE NEXT LIFE!" and Kendra going "Ewwww, get away from me, rapey man!"

I'm pretty sure she's supposed to go hook up with Roy Harper and piss Carter off. Maybe when we get that Wally/Roy Not Titans spinoff...

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2018 around 05:10

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

STAC Goat posted:

Yeah but that was pretty true to the comic book spirit.

Like Kendra's entire comic book origin is her being this traumatized kid who has this middle aged dude say "YOU ARE MY REINCARNATED WIFE AND ONE TRUE LOVE AND I WILL HAVE YOU UNTIL WE DIE AND ARE REUNITED IN THE NEXT LIFE!" and Kendra going "Ewwww, get away from me, rapey man!"

I'm pretty sure she's supposed to go hook up with Roy Harper and piss Carter off. Maybe when we get that Wally/Roy Not Titans spinoff...

They also really hosed themselves hard with the crossover that set up Legends in the first place and introduced Kendra and Carter. Kendra and Cisco falling for each other in the episodes leading up it was nice because they had good chemistry together and he genuinely appreciated her as a person. Then Carter swoops in and is a moody domineering rear end in a top hat with a billion red flags around him... and she chooses to go with him anyway. It engendered a lot of really bad will towards both of them right off the bat for really screwing over the loveable audience surrogate character quite callously.

Then Legends itself spent an entire season going "Hey, look Kendra! There's a whole continuum of better people out there for you, from Ray, to Sara, to Snart, to literally anyone but Carter--oh? You're gonna stay with the grumbly date rapist? Okay, bye then!"

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2018 around 05:27

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


Eh, I don't think they "hosed themselves." Like the fact that Kendra is both righteously outraged by the entitlement and inappropriateness of Carter and this "destiny" crap but also kind of annoyingly drawn by the fate of it all is basically the character. My memory is they do eventually hook up once everyone convinces him to stop stalking her. They stayed loosely true to that by having her fall in love with Ray and then still feel that attachment to Carter once he was no longer being all rapey. Even with her flying off with Carter they could always have her come back and say "yeah, we need our distance". I think its clear they just wanted to wipe the slate clean of the Hawks and Savage at that time and give Legends a shot without the baggage.

Now that Legends has found its groove and the Arrowverse has gotten so big I think they could probably easily reintroduce Kendra if they wanted to. But I'm not exactly screaming for it.

Unless it somehow gets my NotTitans thing going...

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2018 around 05:31

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!


Grimey Drawer

I like the actress they got for Kendra (she has an amazing thousand-watt smile ) but at this point if they want to bring Hawkgirl back they should just get like the Hawkgirl of 2099 who's a Thanagarian and isn't connected the Vandal Savage/Reincarnation poo poo at all.

Bonus points if they can work Maria Canals-Barrera in somehow.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


8one6 posted:

I like the actress they got for Kendra (she has an amazing thousand-watt smile ) but at this point if they want to bring Hawkgirl back they should just get like the Hawkgirl of 2099 who's a Thanagarian and isn't connected the Vandal Savage/Reincarnation poo poo at all.

Bonus points if they can work Maria Canals-Barrera in somehow.

I'm sure they could work in proper alien Thanagarians in Supergirl and have Maria be a Chief of Police/Commander while Kendra's actress plays the person on the ground on Earth

Atarask
Mar 8, 2008

Lord of Rigel Developer

Robot Hobo posted:

Ray accidentally invents an evil ray, then also accidentally blasts himself with the evil ray to become Evil Ray.

He also blasts the corpse of Captain Lance's Sister to make her evil too, the effectiveness of which is unclear, as she's still quite dead. She's Evil Ray's sidekick anyway, Weekend At Bernie's style, just to annoy Sara.

Sounds like a Legends script, let's dial it up a little bit more and they're stuck in 1980s Miami. Constantine is hitting on Edward James Olmos who is trying to stop a drug deal which is actually MAGIC VOODOO DRUGS and Evil Ray keeps messing stuff up.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!


Grimey Drawer

Atarask posted:

Sounds like a Legends script, let's dial it up a little bit more and they're stuck in 1980s Miami. Constantine is hitting on Edward James Olmos who is trying to stop a drug deal which is actually MAGIC VOODOO DRUGS and Evil Ray keeps messing stuff up.

It's the 80's, you forgot Damien Dhark is there with a mustache wearing the most pastel suit he could find.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

A Good Day to
ACTION DUCK


Wow you guys at terrible at this legends would never do anything that vanilla

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004



Recently seen the John Noble episode. Watching him run those lines and calling it crap was great.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

Atarask posted:

Sounds like a Legends script, let's dial it up a little bit more and they're stuck in 1980s Miami. Constantine is hitting on Edward James Olmos who is trying to stop a drug deal which is actually MAGIC VOODOO DRUGS and Evil Ray keeps messing stuff up.

Plot twist - Diaz was the drug lord all along! It was all part of his long-term plan.

Zebulon
Aug 20, 2005

Oh god why does it burn?!

CobiWann posted:

Plot twist - Diaz was the drug lord all along! It was all part of his long-term plan.

Gotta admit, the Diaz gag is hilarious but it really makes me glad I haven't bothered watching Arrow since the half-season break.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


Zebulon posted:

Gotta admit, the Diaz gag is hilarious but it really makes me glad I haven't bothered watching Arrow since the half-season break.

Last week Diaz had an episode focused on him that really helped the character. Shifted it from "magically one step ahead" to "has been thinking about how to do this for a real long time and wants it real bad." Shame they couldn't have put it before all the episodes where this small-time drug dealer was made out to be a mastermind. Still hasn't been given a lot to work with.

Bruceski fucked around with this message at Apr 23, 2018 around 18:49

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

AFC NORTH PITY FUCK


Davros1 posted:

The Hawkgirl actress was one of the worst actresses I've ever seen. Don't ever bring her back.

This. Her character was OK for the most part, but the actress wasn't good.

ApeHawk
Jun 6, 2010

All the NPCs will look up and shout, "Do this quest!"
and I'll whisper, "Sure, why not."


Doctor Butts posted:

This. Her character was OK for the most part, but the actress wasn't good.

Well, maybe she was also a barista two weeks before becoming an actress.

Sloth Life
Nov 15, 2014

Built for comfort and speed!

Fallen Rib

I dreamt about the Legends last night. Im fuzzy on the details now but I woke up really happy.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

Sloth Life posted:

I dreamt about the Legends last night. Im fuzzy on the details now but I woke up really happy.

Sounds like Legends episode alright.

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Sloth Life posted:

I dreamt about the Legends last night. Im fuzzy on the details now but I woke up really happy.

Sex dreams with Beebo is something for the therapists office alright.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Bruceski posted:

Last week Diaz had an episode focused on him that really helped the character. Shifted it from "magically one step ahead" to "has been thinking about how to do this for a real long time and wants it real bad." Shame they couldn't have put it before all the episodes where this small-time drug dealer was made out to be a mastermind. Still hasn't been given a lot to work with.

Meh, it did establish some motivation for him but showing that he's John Wick with a gun and that he's patient and planned for awhile still doesn't explain how he was able to do all of this. It's still basically magic

If anything the episode just reinforced that he really was just a small time street rat who had lofty ambitions.

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at Apr 23, 2018 around 21:37

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Atarask posted:

Sounds like a Legends script, let's dial it up a little bit more and they're stuck in 1980s Miami. Constantine is hitting on Edward James Olmos who is trying to stop a drug deal which is actually MAGIC VOODOO DRUGS and Evil Ray keeps messing stuff up.

They should have an episode where it's every single 80s detective show at once and Edward James Olmos is there sneaking around a mansion karate chopping drug dealers and taking out KGB guys with a samurai sword.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

Wheat Loaf posted:

They should have an episode where it's every single 80s detective show at once and Edward James OlmosLee Van Cleef is there sneaking around a mansion karate chopping drug dealers and taking out KGB guys with a samurai sword.

OB_Juan
Nov 24, 2004

Not every day is a good day.



Dinosaur Gum

Zebulon posted:

I haven't bothered watching Arrow since the half-season break.

You've already won!

Shaddak
Nov 13, 2011



OB_Juan posted:

You've already won!

Oh poo poo! Diaz is in the thread.

Zebulon
Aug 20, 2005

Oh god why does it burn?!

OB_Juan posted:

You've already won!

That's definitely what it seems like. Maybe I'll just slam through it once it's on Netflix or something.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless



But the thing is, there are actual episodes of Miami Vice where Edward James Olmos takes out bad guys with a samurai sword and has martial arts fights.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

Wheat Loaf posted:

But the thing is, there are actual episodes of Miami Vice where Edward James Olmos takes out bad guys with a samurai sword and has martial arts fights.

Alas, we didnít get to see EJO go to town on anyone with a samurai sword on Battlestar Galactica and the world is a dimmer place for it.

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

WhyteRyce posted:

Meh, it did establish some motivation for him but showing that he's John Wick with a gun and that he's patient and planned for awhile still doesn't explain how he was able to do all of this. It's still basically magic

If anything the episode just reinforced that he really was just a small time street rat who had lofty ambitions.

So it doesn't explain how Diaz killed Cayden's son with the goal of Cayden eventually being broken out of prison by Helix and planning to take revenge on Green Arrow?

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

Wheat Loaf posted:

But the thing is, there are actual episodes of Miami Vice where Edward James Olmos takes out bad guys with a samurai sword and has martial arts fights.

I know...however I still want Lee Van Cleef, the world famous Dutch ninja who enjoyed the tranquility of post-war Japan.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

CobiWann posted:

I know...however I still want Lee Van Cleef, the world famous Dutch ninja who enjoyed the tranquility of post-war Japan.

He finally dumps Timothy Van Patten and enlists the Legends' help in tracking down his daughter

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Just a reminder that there is a thread for Arrow so take your complaints about how terrible Diaz is (and he is so terrible) there. This is a happy thread for an awesome show.

Grillfiend
Nov 29, 2015

Belgians ITT
(ie Me)


aw poo poo, he's got the mods in his pocket too


...


anyway, back to how terrible Hawkman is

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004



Grillfiend posted:

anyway, back to how terrible Hawkman is

Happy to oblige.

*In a wood-tier acting monotone voice: "I will save you from the villain who wants to forcefully be your lover for all eternity by being creepy and forcing you to be my lover for all eternity."




"Remember, you cannot have any boyfriend but me. I must now proceed to have no interaction whatsoever with any other cast member, or have any hobbies, interests or personality for that matter."

Elentor fucked around with this message at Apr 24, 2018 around 20:29

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

Say what you will about the man, at least Vandal Savage kind of developed a bit of personality by the end of the first season. Dude started showing a kernel of actually enjoying being an evil prick that Darhk and Thawne would pick up and run with with gusto.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!


Grimey Drawer

And there was his famous tuna casserole.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004



nine-gear crow posted:

Say what you will about the man, at least Vandal Savage kind of developed a bit of personality by the end of the first season. Dude started showing a kernel of actually enjoying being an evil prick that Darhk and Thawne would pick up and run with with gusto.

I mean, let's be honest here, not just anyone - anything had more personality than Hawkman.

Who is more of a character - Hunter's coat or Hawkman?
Do you have a bigger emotional connection to the waverider's medbay, or Hawkman?

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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

Elentor posted:

I mean, let's be honest here, not just anyone - anything had more personality than Hawkman.

Who is more of a character - Hunter's coat or Hawkman?
Do you have a bigger emotional connection to the waverider's medbay, or Hawkman?

I would be somewhat choked up if the Waveriderís medbay suddenly exploded. I mean, it was the room Stein died in and all. If Hawkman exploded I would probably jump and cheer.

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