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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I genuinely can't wait to see Constantine's reaction to the idiots.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I kind of like the idea of Rip as the new authority on time travel who has a whole organization of people working for him but also keeps the Legends as his little side team for the off the books work.

And of course who keeps totally unnecessary secrets for well intentions reasons that ultimately come to bite him in the rear end.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I'm not 100% sure but I think Amaya's powers were powers her sister had on the Vixen web series. Maybe. All I can really remember from that was that Vixen's totem is just one of a set and when they're all together and on their native land they're way more powerful as they were intended to protect it.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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At this stage of Legends' development I think its safe to say that anything that seems like it might be a goofy reference is probably a goofy reference.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Of course Legends is doing a Stranger Things episode.

Yer Burnt posted:

Yeah, the liberated prisoners didn't seem like they were all metas.

I'm loving how they tease the next episode at the end of the current one.

It seems the CW Seed's Vixen cartoon has had the "Water Assassin" as a main villain (kinda spoilery even though it's technically canon in the Arrowverse, but she's Amaya's granddaughter and Future Vixen's sister). Also, there's more background on the totems.

And if I'm remembering right season 2 had the fire one in play and confirmed there's five Captain Planet ones.

So yeah, this season of Legends seems like its going to go off the continuity in the Vixen series so if you're curious spending 15 minutes watching that might not be a waste of time. Then again its not that complicated and I'm sure they'll explain it in time.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Its going to be very weird when the Legends encounter the grown up Gumball, because you know thats coming.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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You know... I haven't been fully on board with the sheer love and "best of the Arrowverse shows" Legends has been getting the last year or so. I mean, I definitely agreed it had improved a lot and was more fun, but it still kind of felt like the show of the bunch that I was least enthused to watch each week.

But God drat the last two episodes may have totally turned me around to "God I love this." Somewhere between last week's Gumball bobbing to "Good Morning" as he made a bunch of Men in Black perform it with his mind and this week's Damian Darkh killing people in tune to "Return of the Mack" I just fell in love and any enthusiasm gasp disappeared.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Like, I kept the last two episodes on my DVR and I wasn't sure why and now I realize its so I can now go back and rewatch those two scenes.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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twistedmentat posted:

I'm going to have Return of the Mack stuck in my head for a week.

I JUST got Good Morning out of my head a couple of days ago.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Cain and Hatcher have both done Supergirl which I'm pretty sure has cast every actor who played a DC character for the last 40 years. They're even digging into the Smallville cast now.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I cried.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I'm not sure getting yourself attached to another person is an ideal move, let alone Mick of all people. I mean, you may like the guy but do you really want to be stuck with him for life? Super powers are cool and all, but not that cool. Besides the character development was that Jax came to terms with the fact that he didn't need super powers to be a valuable member of the Legends since he spends most of his time running around and fixing stuff anyway.

That and CGI budgets. Its weird to imagine we might have seen the last of Firestorm but I'm not convinced we have. Jax will probably discover he's still got the powers or get sick like Martin did after Ronnie died and need to find a new partner or something. Its Legends, maybe they'll find a living Ronnie.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Yeah, Savage sucked but he was the same kind of scene chewing super bad guy that Darkh, Thawne, and Merlyn are. He was just tied so much to the Hawk nonsense that he never had any room to do something as fun as Return of the Mack or 'They're idiots."

I mean, maybe he wouldn't have had the chops to pull it off, but they just never really put him in a position to do it so we'll never know.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Nodosaur posted:

and now we know why he was Cavanaugh in Crisis on Earth X.

Yeah, I didn't realize that but it explains that odd choice. Sad.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I mean, yeah, I'm perfectly willing to accept that Thawne just put on Wells' face to be an rear end in a top hat but it still seemed like an odd casting choice without the knowledge that Letscher just wasn't available.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I've listened to Careless Whisper like 20 times this week.

This after listening to Waterloo more than I care for.

After having Return of the Mack on loop for weeks.

And after I added Good Morning to my music library.

This show has somehow become the soundtrack of my life.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I they added Ralph after adding Wally then there'd just be way too many people Nate wanted to goofy best friends with. It would be chemistry chaos.

Also have I mentioned how much I love Wally and drunk Rip? I'm not near as harsh on Flash as many of the people around here but Legends managed to make Wally more likable to me in one side plot episode than I think Flash ever did.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Rip was dealing with the whole "wife and child murdered and trying to save them" thing in S1. He was chilling out in S2 was dealing with the whole "being replaced by a better captain" thing. But by S3 he's probably removed enough to have been able to move on and just have fun.

At least that's my hope from that Wally sideplot.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Zebulon posted:

Why do I get the feeling that Ava is Sara's daughter or something based on the abrupt secret that Sara apparently isn't allowed to know.
Why does the internet always default to incest?

Rip's daughter was the first thought I had but it could probably be a lot of things. Or the abberration thing kind of makes sense. But the fact that Rip called Ava "special" suggested to me that he cares about her so the daughter thing makes sense.

nine-gear crow posted:

Pretty much. I've read a couple of interviews with him and he says he won't kiss anyone on camera and doesn't do hard swearing or taking the Lord's name in vain because he's a practicing Catholic IRL, but other than that, game on, let's have some fun. And I respect that in him. Dude knows his limits and he's just having a blast with Darhk.

I love the line drawn that he can play a genocidal magic man who sells his daughter to a demon to be resurrected but saying "drat" would be crossing a line. That's just charming.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Yeah, time fuckery has an established gender swapping affect.

I mean, its all baseless speculation. It was just my first thought since Rip seemed to be less worried about Ava as some kind of a threat to Sara and more connected to her and wanting to hide some truth. It could be just about anything I suppose. Maybe Ava is the daughter of Nora and Ray and Rip is worried Sara would be upset she's hooking up with a Darkh? Who the hell knows? The daughter thing was just the first thought I had.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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YEEEEEEEEEES!!!

8one6 posted:

This is why Legends is the best* Aarowverse show.


*Black Lightning is the actual best show on the CW, but it's not technically part of the Aarowverse. Yet.

Its not officially an Arrowverse show until it has a character who is clearly being underused and would be saved by inexplicably finding their way onto the WaveRider.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Its kind of weird that like everyone has super powered totems now. And poor Ray. The Mick/Fire one kind of makes sense as does the Sara/Death one. Then again maybe the fact that Nate couldn't get a reaction from the Earth one means he can't wield it and they'll have to go looking for someone or something.

My hope is that no one can make the totem work and Constantine leads them to a guy who gets transformed into Swamp Thing.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2018 around 01:53

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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muscles like this! posted:

It was an intensely stupid joke but I did laugh at the Doctor Who bit.

If Legends lasts long enough at some point they're just going to land in England next to a police box.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I do find it kind of a waste that they all just threw a chain around the tokens and called it a day. I want more Elvis Guitar Tokens.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Yeah, guys. I think the answer is "a time traveling group of super heroed idiots are rescuing Barack Obama from a telepathic gorilla and you're worried about what the exact Presidential lineage is?"

He served one term. He got succeeded by someone else. He beat Bush in 2004. He's gonna win in 2020. He was actually the Speaker of the House when the Dominators showed up and there's another tragedy coming. Its an anachronism. Forget about it.

I was kind of hoping we'd finally get Megalyn Echikunwoke there, even though I knew we wouldn't because that would have gotten spoilered by now.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Mar 27, 2018 around 06:54

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I sometimes wonder that and then I realize its just budget stuff and shrug and move on because Ray's more fun out of the suit.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I just kind of laugh that Ray is quickly becoming the only person without super powers thanks to the totems. He doesn't even have Martin and Jax around to do the same "I could have powers if I tried but I'm not" thing.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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No, no. I WANT Ray to be the only one without powers. I think its hilarious and a perfect place for Ray. I'm waiting for the episode where he's jealous that Nate is spending so much time with Wally.

Also I'm still hoping for random Swamp Thing.

muscles like this! posted:

They're probably going to have to take all the totems off the table by the end of the season.

Some of them, for sure. You'd assume Zari and Amaya would keep theirs, although at some point Amaya's gotta go back and have a kid and clearly that story is playing out now. Death is probably gonna get buried because its dangerous. Mick COULD keep the fire one but he could just as easily lose it and it actually has some kind of paradox issues with the Vixen web series, I think. And who knows about the water and earth ones as they don't have holders right now.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Mar 28, 2018 around 01:06

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I've gotten no Wally/Zari vibes off the characters and I really think people were just jumping on Zari being happy that she was no longer the new kid and there was someone she could treat like a newbie.

But I've been wrong before, so who knows?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I really, really enjoyed it even though I'm not as in love with the show as many of you. But its drat fun and goofy and I had a goofy smile from about half way through the episode until now half an hour after finishing.

I can't wrap my mind around the fact that Beebo basically was the focus of the season. Who would have imagined that ending when we first met him?

I had totally forgotten about the Constantine news and was feeling a little bummed about losing Amaya and Rip (also them retconning Vixen so they never even have to try and get Megalyn Echikunwoke) and wondering who would get added to the team next season when he (Gary) showed up and I said "OH YEAH! THAT'S AWESOME!"

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I don't really write anyone out on this show permanently because of all the time and magic and other worlds stuff... and because its a comic book show. But Rip and Amaya were written out so I'm gonna just assume they're out of the immediate plans until they're not.

Like, it would be dumb to spend an entire season saying Amaya has to go back home to fix the timeline, to end the season on it, and then just bring her back in... for the second season in a row. They might do it and I'll probably be fine with it when they do but until they do I'll just assume she'll basically operate as a recurring character the same way Rip did this season. And maybe Rip will fall into the Snart role or something.

I was just talking about the yearly tradition of writing some characters out and bringing ones in. I was wondering who it would be because i had forgotten about Constantine and was very excited when he showed up and I remembered.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I tell myself that the only thing keeping Roy from meeting Wally is that Titans show that I'm betting is going to fail badly because its on a streaming service that I don't think exists yet because tv didn't want it and stars Thad Castle and Lyla Garrity as role models.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Apr 10, 2018 around 22:40

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Narcissus1916 posted:

Does anyone know if the writers killed Sara off in Arrow knowing that Legends of tomorrow was in the works?

Or did they kill her off and then go OH gently caress OH gently caress OH gently caress once they realized how stupid it was?

Like don't get me wrong, I understand why they had to move Sara away from Arrow - if she would have stayed the whole series would have to be reconfigured and they were clearly moving in a different direction.

Killing her was probably a means to an end to tell some stories they wanted including getting her sister to replace her as Black Canary. Bringing her back also fit into their stories with Lazarus Pits but I don't know if they knew they were moving her to another show when they did it. There wasn't a TON of demand for her to come back. She had her fans, don't get me wrong, but Sara was a less fully realized character when she died. She's come into her own on Legends.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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And i think most viewers did. She was a show creation who never totally "fit" as Black Canary and Laurel was always the elephant in the room as the comic canon Canary. No one was surprised when she became Canary and for that to happen Sara had to die. And her entire character the first time through was basically a tragic figure headed for a tragic death.

Of course they killed her off in a really callous and questionable way which people didn't like. But I don't think that was really about Sara and it kind of faded.

Also a quick glance of her Wikipedia says that Sara was originally scripted to be Ravager so clearly her very inclusion as Black Canary was a change of plans. Sara was a character that just gradually became what she is.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:

IMO Snart's character arc makes it worth at least watching, and you kinda need that for season 2.

Sara also got a lot of character foundation built in that season. Both them them ran pretty parallel redemption arcs. Plus Mick's whole thing.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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nine-gear crow posted:

Sara also starts a barroom brawl in the pilot because she macks on a biker dude's girlfriend. And Ray fights a giant doom bot near the finale. And the Space Ranger Stein episode was really good.

Season 1 Legends has lots of bits and blips scattered throughout it that make it worth watching and hint at what the show would eventually become, so I will still defend its merit even today.

Yeah, Season 1's just not as bad as people remember it as long as you (a) know that they work out the bugs as they go on and (b) know the Hawks/Savage stuff will come to an end.

I guess maybe some people might be mad because Mick's kind of still very much a bad guy but he's a bad guy through a lot of S2 too.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Yeah but that was pretty true to the comic book spirit.

Like Kendra's entire comic book origin is her being this traumatized kid who has this middle aged dude say "YOU ARE MY REINCARNATED WIFE AND ONE TRUE LOVE AND I WILL HAVE YOU UNTIL WE DIE AND ARE REUNITED IN THE NEXT LIFE!" and Kendra going "Ewwww, get away from me, rapey man!"

I'm pretty sure she's supposed to go hook up with Roy Harper and piss Carter off. Maybe when we get that Wally/Roy Not Titans spinoff...

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2018 around 05:10

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Eh, I don't think they "hosed themselves." Like the fact that Kendra is both righteously outraged by the entitlement and inappropriateness of Carter and this "destiny" crap but also kind of annoyingly drawn by the fate of it all is basically the character. My memory is they do eventually hook up once everyone convinces him to stop stalking her. They stayed loosely true to that by having her fall in love with Ray and then still feel that attachment to Carter once he was no longer being all rapey. Even with her flying off with Carter they could always have her come back and say "yeah, we need our distance". I think its clear they just wanted to wipe the slate clean of the Hawks and Savage at that time and give Legends a shot without the baggage.

Now that Legends has found its groove and the Arrowverse has gotten so big I think they could probably easily reintroduce Kendra if they wanted to. But I'm not exactly screaming for it.

Unless it somehow gets my NotTitans thing going...

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2018 around 05:31

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I don't know that I'm prepared to go that far.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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The later seasons comic book stuff - especially the JLA, JSA, and Legion stuff - stood out as a huge improvement at the time. But I went back and rewatched some of that earlier this year and its really, really bad. Like Smallville wasn't THAT long ago to warrant "eh, it was good for the time" framing. There's one year between Smallville's end and Arrow's beginning. That's three years before Flash and 5 before Legends. Its a shocking jump in quality.

We were just really hungry for some comic stuff and the MCU had just barely started really kicking off the modern era of no excuses, full blown comic fare.

Like, if Legends S1 had come out during Smallville's run we would have been falling all over ourselves to praise it. Hell, we probably would have been really forgiving to Inhumans.

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