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tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


I'm glad that we have all come to the logical conclusion that women should not be allowed to perform with their male peers and that anyone who supports it wants to see women getting beaten down in the middle of the ring for 15 minutes instead of an actual wrestling match.

Thank you all for providing evidence that lucha underground failed because it allowed a woman to compete and win a title, and not because it was a wildly experimental show in an almost entirely different format from traditional wrestling.

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schweens
Jan 14, 2011

kakarot ain't got shit on me


The Royal Rumble is intergender and that's canon

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


schweens posted:

The Royal Rumble is intergender and that's canon

It's no DQ and very illegal.

Fiveace Attorney
Dec 12, 2006

I ain't his friend! If you were to ask me if I was his friend, I would say "NO" to you!


tweet my meat posted:

I'm glad that we have all come to the logical conclusion that women should not be allowed to perform with their male peers and that anyone who supports it wants to see women getting beaten down in the middle of the ring for 15 minutes instead of an actual wrestling match.

Thank you all for providing evidence that lucha underground failed because it allowed a woman to compete and win a title, and not because it was a wildly experimental show in an almost entirely different format from traditional wrestling.
thanks trump lover for your nuanced view on gender relations and how women fighting dudes is going to save the carny business

it is hilarious that somehow people watch this product with all of its incredibly bad decisions and the thing that most leaps out to them is "hay why arent the women and men beating each other up i thought we had EQUALITY?? kek"

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


tweet my meat posted:

I'm glad that we have all come to the logical conclusion that women should not be allowed to perform with their male peers and that anyone who supports it wants to see women getting beaten down in the middle of the ring for 15 minutes instead of an actual wrestling match.

Great post please post this in the UFC thread as well



this isn't me trying to make a point I think it'd just be funny if you posted it in the UFC thread

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


tweet my meat posted:

I'm glad that we have all come to the logical conclusion that women should not be allowed to perform with their male peers and that anyone who supports it wants to see women getting beaten down in the middle of the ring for 15 minutes instead of an actual wrestling match.

Thank you all for providing evidence that lucha underground failed because it allowed a woman to compete and win a title, and not because it was a wildly experimental show in an almost entirely different format from traditional wrestling.

A wrestling show: But bad is not experimental it is tried and true.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


Fiveace Attorney posted:

thanks trump lover for your nuanced view on gender relations and how women fighting dudes is going to save the carny business

it is hilarious that somehow people watch this product with all of its incredibly bad decisions and the thing that most leaps out to them is "hay why arent the women and men beating each other up i thought we had EQUALITY?? kek"

That's the default avatar now, I didn't pick it, and I'm not saying that intergender wrestling is going to save a company that pushes Jinder and a guy who shows up once a month or so as champions.

While I can understand being really iffy about it, I stand by my point that the WWE women's divisions are loaded with wrestlers on the same level or even better than the wrestlers in the men's division and that they could put on some legendary matches if allowed to. Do I think that WWE would handle intergender wrestling properly? Probably not, but I still support it as a concept.

Fiveace Attorney
Dec 12, 2006

I ain't his friend! If you were to ask me if I was his friend, I would say "NO" to you!


women should generally not be wrestling men for the same reason women should not be fighting men in ufc, because the minute you have a guy beating on a woman getting heat (which does not take 15 minutes) you're promoting that and have it on your head

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Sugar Blaster posted:

when was the last time wwe did one of those awkward intergender tag matches where the match itself would come to a screeching halt every time a tag was made on account of the children's toy company they're beholden to said they couldn't have men and women fight one another anymore?

Just this year alone they had Cena/Nikki vs. Miz/Maryse (at WrestleMania!) and Sasha/Rich Swann vs. Alicia/Noam Dar (remember when that was a thing?)

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012



Fiveace Attorney posted:

women should generally not be wrestling men for the same reason women should not be fighting men in ufc, because the minute you have a guy beating on a woman getting heat (which does not take 15 minutes) you're promoting that and have it on your head

This is a mortal kombat caused columbine level of stupid.

e: women don't fight men in the UFC because it wouldn't be a balanced fight.

Fiveace Attorney
Dec 12, 2006

I ain't his friend! If you were to ask me if I was his friend, I would say "NO" to you!


Gumball Gumption posted:

This is a mortal kombat caused columbine level of stupid.

e: women don't fight men in the UFC because it wouldn't be a balanced fight.
i dont really care if its balanced i dont want to see a woman get beaten unconscious by a dude for "entertainment". interesting if you do though

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


Fiveace Attorney posted:

women should generally not be wrestling men for the same reason women should not be fighting men in ufc, because the minute you have a guy beating on a woman getting heat (which does not take 15 minutes) you're promoting that and have it on your head

Fair point, and I agree to an extent, even if comparing ufc to Sports Entertainment is kinda silly. Though I don't think even modern WWE would be stupid enough (but they're always full of surprises) to have a woman job in an intergender segment just to drum up heat. Save it for more or less equal footing feuds and don't bust it out all the time. Midcarders against midcarders, main eventers against main eventers, etc.

As long as you're careful to avoid situations like that where it's just one sided, I think it could be done very well. You probably couldn't do those drawn out bloody feuds with brutal chair beatdowns every other week, but that still leaves plenty of room to write some good wrestling.

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012



I just don't know what world you live in where you think a fake inter-gender wrestling match = a woman being beaten unconscious. How is something like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21SWs4PA3s, Ricochet vs. Tessa Blanchard, not a fun match?

Fiveace Attorney
Dec 12, 2006

I ain't his friend! If you were to ask me if I was his friend, I would say "NO" to you!


tweet my meat posted:

Fair point, and I agree to an extent. Though I don't think even modern WWE would be stupid enough (but they're always full of surprises) to have a woman job in an intergender segment just to drum up heat. Save it for more or less equal footing feuds and don't bust it out all the time. Midcarders against midcarders, main eventers against main eventers, etc.

As long as you're careful to avoid situations like that where it's just one sided, I think it could be done very well. You probably couldn't do those drawn out bloody feuds with brutal chair beatdowns every other week, but that still leaves plenty of room to write some good wrestling.
its not about jobbing. no one cares about who lays down for pins. in nearly every match thats not a squash or a farce theres a heat segment and a comeback segment. if you have non-comedy intergender bouts, women are going to get beat up for heat. thats actually the only way to play it unless you want people cheering a woman getting beat up for the comeback. either way its bad because its not the kind of heat you want and it is definitely not the kind of comeback you want

Fiveace Attorney
Dec 12, 2006

I ain't his friend! If you were to ask me if I was his friend, I would say "NO" to you!


Gumball Gumption posted:

I just don't know what world you live in where you think a fake inter-gender wrestling match = a woman being beaten unconscious. How is something like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21SWs4PA3s, Ricochet vs. Tessa Blanchard, not a fun match?
i was referring to a ufc match and what you linked appears to be a comedy spectacle. the few moments where ricochet is getting any "real" offense are awkward af

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


My honest opinion on intergender wrestling is I think the concept of it is cool but I think you write yourself into a corner very quickly because I dunno if many people would buy a woman beating on a dude to get heat and I think a man beating on a woman to get heat would be very uncomfortable very quickly and would kinda mark that guy as a douchebag heel forever.

So basically I think it'd be sorta impossible to do with a traditional heel/face dynamic. And it's definitely light years out of WWE's capabilities.

They do mixed matches fairly often but theyre very stilted and obviously the men never get any offense on the women. I think the closest we came was one time Sasha and Charlotte kicked Rusev out of the ring and he looked like he was gonna beat the holy hell out of them before Roman came down and was roundly booed.

NameHurtBrain
Jan 17, 2015


Given it's worked, there's less of a reason that you can't have intergender matches, since in theory, Sasha Banks vs. say, Dean Ambrose is much less of a physical mismatch than Rey Mysterio vs. Mark Henry. If you had Sasha beat Dean on the next Raw, people would just be absolutely baffled much akin to the Jinder megapush(on top of just Jinder being bad). It'd take a long task of viewer conditioning and making it gradual. If the WWE really wanted to do this, an overly dominant woman trying to break into the Cruiserweight division would actually be a good first step. I dunno, if they don't horribly mangle Asuka, she's booked as a continued unstoppable monster to the point where she's defeated all comers, she turns to some lower end Cruiser and goes at it.

Really, I think you'd need someone like Beth Phoenix-style to sell it, definitely at first. A 'hoss' style woman who is still seen as decently agile and very skilled. Someone exceptional. Also see: if Chyna was a much better worker than what she was.

That said, this would require nuance, subtlety, and tastefulness as an approach, and also excellent booking.

WWE is currently 0 for 4 so none of this is going to happen. We'll get Vince vs. Stephanie again before any of this.

VJeff posted:

Every male wrestler needs to buddy up with a female wrestler that they can call to beat up Steph for them.

A woman who takes money to beat up authority figures the guys aren't allowed to is something I can get behind. A PC-APA where someone just uses the loophole to their advantage for cash would be a fun gimmick. Every time Stephanie goes overboard and demeans someone, they pay her, and she steps out, starting to tape her fists and earning another paycheck.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012



NameHurtBrain posted:

Given it's worked, there's less of a reason that you can't have intergender matches, since in theory, Sasha Banks vs. say, Dean Ambrose is much less of a physical mismatch than Rey Mysterio vs. Mark Henry. If you had Sasha beat Dean on the next Raw, people would just be absolutely baffled much akin to the Jinder megapush(on top of just Jinder being bad). It'd take a long task of viewer conditioning and making it gradual. If the WWE really wanted to do this, an overly dominant woman trying to break into the Cruiserweight division would actually be a good first step.

worked so well in WCW with Madusa

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012



You said a woman wrestling a man would be the same as a woman fighting a man in the ufc. I posted an example showing that they don't have to be the same or presented the same way.

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


I mean Asuka as a Cruiserweight sounds good on paper but I'm like 98% positive it'd just end with her telling some dude to stiff slap the poo poo outta her again.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


VJeff posted:

My honest opinion on intergender wrestling is I think the concept of it is cool but I think you write yourself into a corner very quickly because I dunno if many people would buy a woman beating on a dude to get heat and I think a man beating on a woman to get heat would be very uncomfortable very quickly and would kinda mark that guy as a douchebag heel forever.

So basically I think it'd be sorta impossible to do with a traditional heel/face dynamic. And it's definitely light years out of WWE's capabilities.

They do mixed matches fairly often but theyre very stilted and obviously the men never get any offense on the women. I think the closest we came was one time Sasha and Charlotte kicked Rusev out of the ring and he looked like he was gonna beat the holy hell out of them before Roman came down and was roundly booed.

Honestly yeah. I don't think the culture as a whole could handle it anytime in the near future with the current political climate, and it would require a very skilled hand behind the scenes to write it, which WWE does not have.

If you were gonna do it, crossover with 205 would probably be the best way to ease into it.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012



VJeff posted:

I mean Asuka as a Cruiserweight sounds good on paper but I'm like 98% positive it'd just end with her telling some dude to stiff slap the poo poo outta her again.

i saw a video on youtube of Kana having an intergender match in Japan and it was possibly the most uncomfortable thing i've ever seen in my life

Fiveace Attorney
Dec 12, 2006

I ain't his friend! If you were to ask me if I was his friend, I would say "NO" to you!


Gumball Gumption posted:

You said a woman wrestling a man would be the same as a woman fighting a man in the ufc. I posted an example showing that they don't have to be the same or presented the same way.
Nah I'll just quote myself for you

quote:

women should generally not be wrestling men for the same reason women should not be fighting men in ufc
Which is not even a point you're arguing with. again, it's the same problem (women getting beat up by men for entertainment) with different sources (booked vs. shoot). you're showing comedy matches as if that's somehow negating my point but a) theyre joke matches that dont draw and b) they have to deliberately work around all the problems im talking about

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


Alaois posted:

i saw a video on youtube of Kana having an intergender match in Japan and it was possibly the most uncomfortable thing i've ever seen in my life

And she's the one who fuckin booked it!

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012



Alaois posted:

i saw a video on youtube of Kana having an intergender match in Japan and it was possibly the most uncomfortable thing i've ever seen in my life

Fun fact, if it is the Kana/Suzuki match she booked it.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012



i mean if i had the opportunity to get beaten up by Minoru Suzuki i'm not saying i wouldn't take it but i also wouldn't film it and put it on tv

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012



And not make money off of it? I'd put it on tv.

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


Becky or charlotte should have beaten Ellsworth up for messing up mitb

DarkstarIV
Apr 6, 2010

OFFICIAL RACIST


Alaois posted:

i mean if i had the opportunity to get beaten up by Minoru Suzuki i'm not saying i wouldn't take it but i also wouldn't film it and put it on tv

The story behind it was a thing. If I recall, Asuka/Kana (just going to say Asuka from here on) pissed off her peers in Japan (her Joshi Manifesto, don't google it as there is also a gravure dvd of the same name), so she booked herself into a match with Suzuki as a way to apologize.

Here are the basics of the manifesto, taken from reddit:

quote:

Okay, the general idea is that Asuka (kana at the time) had been a wrestler for roughly five years at the time. If people were aware, got into wrestling due to male wrestling both japanese and wwe. And after half a decade into her career, she found herself largely disillusioned and disgusted by the joshi scene which she found overly stylized and more focused on how the women looked than the product itself.

So she writes a manifesto for the industry. There are numerous points, but the most important were these five:

Expand joshi wrestling to include other styles

Eliminate obviously fake moves

Conduct a review of the industry as a whole and get rid of wrestlers there that clearly shouldn't

Deal with the negative toxic enivornment of the scene and promote positivity and mutual respect

Encourage those who couldn't develop their persona or style to try other industries rather than flounder in uncertainty


So you got a hotshot joshi known for her stiff style calling for a motion to improve the industry.
So even though there was nothing wrong with her demands, she was in most folks eyes a rookie overstepping her bounds and similarly by extension burying the industry by pointing out its very blatant flaws. In a society that values conformity, age, and seniority.
Funnily enough, that manifesto shot Asuka to the top of the industry because essentially everybody hated her and wanted to see her get her comeuppance.
So an article she wrote trying to improve the industry effectively turned her into one of the biggest joshi of the era.

CrcleSqreSanchz
Aug 21, 2002

Policeman: "A hermit eh? Then why's your table set for four?"
Groucho: "That's nothing. My alarm clock is set for eight."

Lipstick Apathy

Bring back the warlord and a full nelson challenge

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

Is it a Pittsburgh fan?
Is it a Denver fan?
Who can say?

DarkstarIV posted:

(her Joshi Manifesto, don't google it as there is also a gravure dvd of the same name)

*googles*

Marquis de Pyro
Sep 25, 2006

Evil Prevails

I can see both sides of it, brutal violence against women isn't going to make any normal person not feel weird, and I don't ever expect to see it on TV, but it's also fake. There are all kinds of TV shows and movies where women beat up, and get beat up by, men.

Here's my compromise: The women can wrestle men, but only on 205 live

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


CrcleSqreSanchz posted:

Bring back the warlord and a full nelson challenge

The masterlock challenge was cool
So was the five minute white boy challenge
And ryback and braun killing ellsworthesque dudes
And the Steiner brothers killing ellsworthesque dudes
Basically bring back "local talent"

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Listen, if they can book Dean Ambrose losing a match do the interference of a ghost, then they can credibly book a man vs woman match.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013

Never believe in lies

Marquis de Pyro posted:

I can see both sides of it, brutal violence against women isn't going to make any normal person not feel weird, and I don't ever expect to see it on TV, but it's also fake. There are all kinds of TV shows and movies where women beat up, and get beat up by, men.

Here's my compromise: The women can wrestle men, but only on 205 live

It has to be believeable that the women can lose though

beggar
Mar 6, 2008

Smoking Makes You Impotent


Fallen Rib

I'm here for the Apollo Crews vs Rhyno best of infinity series. Better than what they're doing now anyway

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

projecthalaxy posted:

Basically bring back "local talent"

I've been saying they need to do this for years. Does it need to be every match? Certainly not, but if the purpose of the match is to showcase one particular wrestler, then you shouldn't need to do it at the expense of another established wrestler. It would certainly cut down on the 50-50 booking we see now.

cams
Mar 28, 2003



Junpei Hyde posted:

When was the last time a load of posts in a WWE discussion thread meant anything good.
june 25, 2007

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


I know you're all stuck in your old ways, but times are changing, and it's time to let Ellsworth wrestle in the women's division. He' earned that briefcase and he's ready to show the world what he's made of.

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Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Gumball Gumption posted:

I just don't know what world you live in where you think a fake inter-gender wrestling match = a woman being beaten unconscious. How is something like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21SWs4PA3s, Ricochet vs. Tessa Blanchard, not a fun match?

Ricochet is a steroid midget, so him being beaten by a woman is believable.

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