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  • Locked thread
The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


Maxwell Lord posted:

Cody is a good wrestler. The Beautiful Disaster always looks great.

He also has great psychology.

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Jackie D
May 27, 2009

Democracy is like a tambourine - not everyone can be trusted with it.



Cody isn't great but he's alright, seems to be much happier on the indies, and poking wwe and/or roman is good

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012



what

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.



Fred Yehi's not WWE-bound, source: he beat Matt Riddle and clearly people who are sticking around don't win

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004



Cody is a better wrestler than Roman, I mean that's not even up for debate. Also his Doctor Doom/shattered gimmick was more entertaining than anything Roman has ever done.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?


Also, Dusty Rhodes > Sika Anoaíi.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Alan_Shore posted:

Cody is a better wrestler than Roman, I mean that's not even up for debate. Also his Doctor Doom/shattered gimmick was more entertaining than anything Roman has ever done.

Cody isn't close to the level of Roman when it comes to timing, psychology or big match quality. Not even close. The stupid "Doctor Doom" gimmick killed all the momentum he had with Dashing Cody Rhodes and hurt his career in a big way. Awful gimmick.

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


Remember that time cody was standing there holding Dusty's boot, about to turn face against Orton with the hottest crowd ever and then he just decided not to do that?

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


MassRafTer posted:

Cody isn't close to the level of Roman when it comes to timing, psychology or big match quality. Not even close. The stupid "Doctor Doom" gimmick killed all the momentum he had with Dashing Cody Rhodes and hurt his career in a big way. Awful gimmick.

Romans timing is good but his psychology is loving awful. He tells the same story every single match, and constantly does things just because even though there is no rhyme or reason.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


The_Rob posted:

Romans timing is good but his psychology is loving awful. He tells the same story every single match, and constantly does things just because even though there is no rhyme or reason.

Except his matches always peak at the right time. The guy is absolutely fantastic at building a match and manipulating crowds. There's a reason the ending stretch to Roman Reigns title matches are red hot. Meanwhile Cody's big ROH matches never seem to peak right. They start to reach a higher gear and then end suddenly, or plod along.

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008

We All Live In Kawalimus' House


okada could get 5 stars out of roman

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Cavauro posted:

okada could get 5 stars out of roman

Okada/Roman has surpassed Tanahashi/Cena as a dream match for me. It's not quite at Undertaker/Kobashi level yet.

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


MassRafTer posted:

Except his matches always peak at the right time. The guy is absolutely fantastic at building a match and manipulating crowds. There's a reason the ending stretch to Roman Reigns title matches are red hot. Meanwhile Cody's big ROH matches never seem to peak right. They start to reach a higher gear and then end suddenly, or plod along.

I can't remember the last time the crowd was truly red hot for a Roman match. Other than the Braun matches which are gimmicked to the core to the point where it's literally him and Braun waiting around for each other to hit their super planned spots.

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


I think Roman is a dude who can follow instructions very well, but if he was put in a match with no real training wheels we would see him fall apart pretty fast.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


The Doctor Doom gimmick was cool.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


The_Rob posted:

I can't remember the last time the crowd was truly red hot for a Roman match. Other than the Braun matches which are gimmicked to the core to the point where it's literally him and Braun waiting around for each other to hit their super planned spots.

At this point big WWE matches are going to be gimmicked to an absurd degree that you better be able to master it. The best main roster match that wasn't is what, Cena/AJ which was two dudes doing big moves and near falls five minutes into the match. It's a big move and stunt in ring product.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


Roman's matches peak at the right time!

*Roman spams the Superman punch the last 5 minutes of every match.

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


MassRafTer posted:

At this point big WWE matches are going to be gimmicked to an absurd degree that you better be able to master it. The best main roster match that wasn't is what, Cena/AJ which was two dudes doing big moves and near falls five minutes into the match. It's a big move and stunt in ring product.

And I realize that but at least with a move after move spotfest I can see their true athleticism still come out where as the Roman/Braun matches they really are just glorified movie fights with break away gimmicks everywhere. I don't really enjoy that kind of match at all. Especially when they are standing around looking lost until they have to stand on their mark and hit the next spot.

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


And the thing is I'll give a pass to guys like AJ or Owens or even Cena for certain types of matches because I've seen those dudes work for years and I know what they are capable of, and I can see what they're doing in ring. Roman on the other hand has been ultra protected from day one.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


The crowd is red hot for Roman matches!

*Roman puts the crowd to sleep at two WM main events in a row.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?


Just imagine all the spoiled tomatoes and hot cabbage that Roman is going to get pelted with at the Royal Rumble in January when he wins the Royal Rumble again because Roman Reigns Roman Reigns Roman Reigns Roman Reigns....

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


Roman Reigns is a really good wrestler and the anger people hold towards him is misdirected and should actually be turned on the people doing the booking.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

I've hacked into the most secret government and corporate secrets.



tweet my meat posted:

Roman Reigns is a really good wrestler and the anger people hold towards him is misdirected and should actually be turned on the people doing the booking.

Don't tell me how to feel about a Holocaust denier

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


tweet my meat posted:

Roman Reigns is a really good wrestler and the anger people hold towards him is misdirected and should actually be turned on the people doing the booking.

Roman reigns' booking is the absolute strongest in the entire wwe. His booking is put over at the expense of every other wrestler in the company.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


The_Rob posted:

I think Roman is a dude who can follow instructions very well, but if he was put in a match with no real training wheels we would see him fall apart pretty fast.

The first half of this probably gets to the heart of why he is very well liked and put into the position he is even if I disagree with the second half.

Strawberry Panda posted:

The crowd is red hot for Roman matches!

*Roman puts the crowd to sleep at two WM main events in a row.

Both have unique reasons for being bad but both were bad and are not a feather in his cap.

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


Roman Reigns' last two Wrestlemania main events sucked because HHH is bad at epic matches and Undertaker is old and broken down.

Roman Reigns' matches with Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Rusev and so on were good because of Roman Reigns' incredible psychology.

Roman Reigns' match with John Cena was a boring, plodding mess because of, uhhhh.... *throws smoke bomb and runs away*

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

Gonz posted:

Just imagine all the spoiled tomatoes and hot cabbage that Roman is going to get pelted with at the Royal Rumble in January when he wins the Royal Rumble again because Roman Reigns Roman Reigns Roman Reigns Roman Reigns....

Honestly if they keep him with the reunited Shield forever I think he'll be accepted more. He's more likable as part of a group even if he does end up doing mostly solo matches.

Reigns v Lesnar for WM 34 is still the most boring main event you could possibly conceive of, but maybe it won't be quite as blatantly rejected this time. This for Vince would be a victory.

Look, I don't think Reigns is terrible, but someone going on and on about how he's the best loving psychological wrestler ever and all his matches are perfectly paced and Cody always sucked anyway... it's a little irritating.

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


My problem with Roman has never been that he can't have a decent match in ring. He can it's the fact that dude has no personality in ring as far as offense is concerned. He's can't fly, he's not technical, his power moves aren't that powerful. He's supposed to be a striker but his strikes always look weak. He just kind of exists to have WWE style matches.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somehwere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold




The_Rob posted:

Roman reigns' booking is the absolute strongest in the entire wwe. His booking is put over at the expense of every other wrestler in the company.

which is why vince should be boo'd out of the loving building during his once yearly appearance rather than cheered

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


VJeff posted:

Roman Reigns' last two Wrestlemania main events sucked because HHH is bad at epic matches and Undertaker is old and broken down.

Roman Reigns' matches with Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Rusev and so on were good because of Roman Reigns' incredible psychology.

Roman Reigns' match with John Cena was a boring, plodding mess because of, uhhhh.... *throws smoke bomb and runs away*

Twitter loved that Cena match.

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


If we wanna talk about psychology, let's talk about Roman Reigns vs. Jason Jordan. Jordan was running wild on Roman, charged at Roman in the corner, Roman moves, Jordan gets posted. Jordan falls onto the apron. Roman hits the Drive-By. Roman hits the Superman Punch. Roman hits the Spear. Match over.

That is some lame loving psychology. It's like they reached an arbitrary "okay, Jordan's gotten enough offense, time to end the match now" point, then Roman just hit his three moves and pinned him. It was about the laziest finish I can remember seeing on TV in quite a while.

MassRafTer posted:

Twitter loved that Cena match.

Twitter is an idiot!

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


VJeff posted:

If we wanna talk about psychology, let's talk about Roman Reigns vs. Jason Jordan. Jordan was running wild on Roman, charged at Roman in the corner, Roman moves, Jordan gets posted. Jordan falls onto the apron. Roman hits the Drive-By. Roman hits the Superman Punch. Roman hits the Spear. Match over.

That is some lame loving psychology. It's like they reached an arbitrary "okay, Jordan's gotten enough offense, time to end the match now" point, then Roman just hit his three moves and pinned him. It was about the laziest finish I can remember seeing on TV in quite a while.


Twitter is an idiot!

Sounds like the right way to end a match like that. "Up and coming guy gets the better of the star, makes one mistake and pays for it" is a pretty tried and true way to give the new guy something in defeat.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

The_Rob posted:

My problem with Roman has never been that he can't have a decent match in ring. He can it's the fact that dude has no personality in ring as far as offense is concerned. He's can't fly, he's not technical, his power moves aren't that powerful. He's supposed to be a striker but his strikes always look weak. He just kind of exists to have WWE style matches.

I mean, if you look at the 2014 Royal Rumble, he looked like a very good hoss there. And in Shield 1.0 that was also his thing, he was the bruiser, and I think that can translate into solo matches well enough.

The problem was that when he was made the #1 babyface of the future, he had to wrestle the WWE Babyface style, which means some offense at the start, get beat up a bunch, then come back and hit your big moves. And I just don't think he makes that heat portion very interesting- it always feels like passing time until he makes a comeback.

Twisted Eye
Jan 6, 2011


The drama in reigns matches comes from the horrible fear that welp he's just going to win again and dammit I'm not interested in seeing that again fuuuuuuuck god please nooooooo

It's like reverse psychology, a sort of "any attention is good attention, so go for the worst attention to get the most attention" attitude.

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


MassRafTer posted:

Sounds like the right way to end a match like that. "Up and coming guy gets the better of the star, makes one mistake and pays for it" is a pretty tried and true way to give the new guy something in defeat.

That's what happened in the Cena match. It went through "Jordan lifts Cena for a suplex -> Cena transitions into a pin -> Jordan kicks out -> Cena hits the AA" all in the space of about 10 seconds and it really felt like Jordan just got caught.

With Roman, it just took like a full minute for him to go through all of his moves and I kept waiting for Jordan to counter because it was taking so drat long to go from spot to spot, but Jordan just kept drunkenly stumbling around and getting hit.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



tweet my meat posted:

Roman Reigns is a really good wrestler and the anger people hold towards him is misdirected and should actually be turned on the people doing the booking.

Or Cody, who sucks.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008


If you think Roman is amazing, thatís great, just donít complain when he has the belt and canít single handedly hold the company up (because heís weak).

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

Roman is over but he's not over enough to be The #1 Guy. Of course at this point NOBODY is, which is the problem, but I don't see why that's being taken out on someone who was quite good with the company and was not quite used to his full potential.

Seriously it's a weird pattern with this board. "This company sucks at building stars! They don't push new people!" :Guy leaves: "Ah, that bastard was always terrible."

It's like we've internalized this Brass Ring bullshit and actually believe the people who didn't make it in the company Just Weren't Good Enough.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Cody was always always bad.

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The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


Maxwell Lord posted:

Roman is over but he's not over enough to be The #1 Guy. Of course at this point NOBODY is, which is the problem, but I don't see why that's being taken out on someone who was quite good with the company and was not quite used to his full potential.

Seriously it's a weird pattern with this board. "This company sucks at building stars! They don't push new people!" :Guy leaves: "Ah, that bastard was always terrible."

It's like we've internalized this Brass Ring bullshit and actually believe the people who didn't make it in the company Just Weren't Good Enough.

Everyone takes it out on Roman because he is put over as the top guy who has all the biggest matches and every veteran puts him over as the best guy and then in interviews he'll go off on how fans are dumb and they don't get how great he is.

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