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Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

The Star Citizen thread doesn't move very fast, but it always moves. This creates a lot of "I don't want to scroll through 2000+ posts for the 10 nuggets of comedy gold" situations.
I do the sifting for you!

MinorInconvenience posted:

Okay. I just read through over three thousand stupid posts. No offense to any of the many stupid posters. Obviously, nothing is currently happening (at least as revealed to the public) in regards to CIG's ultimate downfall and likely bankruptcy in the last month.

I'm tired of monitoring this thread. Hopefully Croberts & Co. will do something incredibly stupid so we can all talk about that stupidity instead of Derek's obvious autistic insanity or loving lovely anime or Rick & Morty or whatever....

Until then, if any of the corporate entities file any papers and anyone wants some color on that (from a lawyer's non-lawyer perspective), please shoot me a PM.

Otherwise, I'm loving out. You fuckers be craycray....

Peace out!

Get caught up:

2011 - 2014
RunRunMoneyTops - Now you're caught up
Sunk Cost Galaxy (playlist)
2014 - 2016
All time greatest hits
A historical catalog of Star Citizen drama - Some of the more outlandish stuff, explains some of the thread injokes and callbacks


Jan Set 1

Good Posts
Assorted collection 1
Assorted collection 2
Account Dissection
G0RF Interlude 1
February 9th Anticipation Station

• Boring portions of posts will be removed when I am paying attention.
• Long posts may also be trimmed down.
• Interesting information will be contained in the post and not require clicking links. (except when Worth Clicking: is noted)
• There is an attempt to keep the thread mobile friendly. (video: summary) (tweet: summary) may appear for this reason.
• Quote order may be altered for topic continuity.
• Multiple posts by the same author may be combined.
• Occasionally bolding on portions of posts may occur for even faster skimming.

• If a post makes me laugh out loud, it will be included.
⤷ Sometimes I laugh at my own posts.

Chris Roberts: Face and Pope of the Star Citizen project.
likes: Motion Capture, grabby-hands, cinematic-feel, Porsches, blue pixels
dislikes: "no", Derek Smart, green pixels

Sandi Gartner: Married to Chris, supposedly ran marketing for the project during kickstarter and early years.
likes: #acting, jewelry, #AmericanSatan
dislikes: backers, Star Citizen, Chris Roberts

Derek Smart: Wrote a blog post concerned for the project, became the defacto boogieman for Star Citizen. Was a forum moderator for a while, permabanned in 2018.
likes: Calling it, twitter, MY BLOG

Beer4TheBeerGod: Star Citizen fan turned heretic after years of project mismanagement. Thread OP and mod. Take notice on how many of his posts are contained in the all time greatest hits (post #2). Got banned from RSI forums for things he posted on SA, got in an e-mail exchange with Sandi over it.
dislikes: Bad beer, Chris Roberts.

Beet Wagon: The mod that actually does stuff. Also mods and guides the refunds subreddit and gets a good vantage point for reddit meltdowns. Co-Host of the Star Citizen ARGCast Podcast. Very buff and sexy dude, in the 99th percentile of huge cocks.

TheAgent: Claims to converse with current and former CIG employees and leaks the funniest tidbits into the thread. The leaks often ring true or are confirmed months later. Occasionally mixes in employee predictions into his own which add spottyness to the track record
Working on a Star Citizen parody game.
Prettygood collection of posts here.

Montoya: Leads the largest "guild/corp" in Star Citizen, TEST. Since there is no guild or even party system in-game, this is essentially a forum guild. Back in the olden days when Goons fought in the RSI forum wars, there was some good anti-TEST propaganda because they're one of those guilds that will take on anyone who clicks sign up. Anyways this guy runs a very small youtube channel where he spends a lot of time "debunking" the latest Star Citizen drama with a grab bag of excuses directly from the Defense Force Playbook. At the time of this writing, he earns around $350 a month from patreon donations. Really all you need to know about this guy is that he recorded himself dancing with .gif images of strippers, AND STILL HASN'T DELETED IT.

B'Tak: A Star Citizen backer obsessed with avoiding any player that might engage in PvP with him. Posts rambling diatribes about how contact with other players should be consensual and other wild theory crafting. He is the holy grail target for tear extraction. In the highly unlikely event of a commercial release, a 24/7 griefing schedule will be organized.

MoMA/Toast: Something Awful's resident Star Citizen hopeful. Could be a gimmick account at this point. May or may not be CIG employee Toast.

Disco Lando: Star Citizen superfan hired by CIG to do community management and video production.

AdzAdama: Has been making psychedelic Star Citizen fan art for several years. Occasionally gets crossposted to the thread.

Trolls-Haters-Heretics-Skeptics-Agnostics-Believers-Evangelists-Zealots-Shills: The many voices and perspectives on Star Citizen were separated into distinct categories by SA poster G0RF to facilitate understanding of the motives, biases, and behaviors of everyone involved. A useful tool in understanding some of the thread lingo.
G0RF's Star Controversy Chart

Parp: An airhorn sound in a very early video made peter gabriel laugh so he made this:

Rubbing: reddit zealot tried to summarize conversations on SA as "Lets rub!" and endless "homoerotic meme cyber". It was crossposted and adopted by the thread.

Stimpire: Morbid Star Citizen totalitarianism fiction that alludes to Derek's July Blog. You can read the original post here. Thread adopted topics: Worst type of electricity, injected insanity, pain that triples every second, deskeletonization, sickening truths.

Archer/Archered/Archering: Ryan Archer was an artist who worked for CIG and was caught copying art for a lovely spinoff boardgame. Some was demonstrably traced from other peoples work and his lame excuse caused the thread to check out his other work they quickly discovered they were all tracings with his name pasted in the corner. Hence every once in awhile you will see Ryan Archer's signature added to parody Star Citizen art. Especially when poorly done or created from mash-ups.

Hello Commando: Players in Elite: Dangerous are often referred to as "Commander"; Goons borrowed this idea and "Commando" was popularized or coined by PGab's parody videos (fanart below).
Originally meant as a non-derogatory name for the unnamed player character of Star Citizen. "R U OK Commando?" in response to players feeling grief on Twitch or in online comments quickly turned into a tell that the chatter was a Goon. The phrase or derivatives can still get you blocked by some of the old streamers. "Hello Commandos" is also used as a greeting between Goons who are in on the Star Citizen joke.

Note on outside links:
The remaining citizenry are very broken. Under no circumstance should you follow links and attempt to argue with them; you will very likely only waste your time.
We are very deep into point and laugh territory; you can't save them, you can't change them. Star Citizen will continue to break brains and plunder wallets:


Join me in spending more cash, not because I want to help development any longer, but just to see if we can literally cause a hater to have a brain aneurysm.

Cause that's where I am at now, I'm spending just to hurt the haters.

Let's begin...

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Aug 14, 2019


Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

Reserved for all time greatest posts

doingitwrong posted:

The one thing we should have learned by now is that time and Star Citizen makes fools of us all. The SC faithful have been so sure that total success is just around the corner for so long. And the SC skeptics have been so sure that total collapse has been just around the corner for so long. And everyone has been wrong.

Star Citizen continues to defy expectations in all directions. It lumbers along blatantly defying the laws of physics, finances, and project management and it just can't die. But it can't live either. And everyone involved, with each passing month, finds themselves thinking "surely it can't continue". Surely they have to release something. Surely there has to be progress. Surely they'll have to come clean. Surely it can't go on like this. But it goes on.

This is purgatory. We are caught in purgatory--in the limbo between dreams and disaster. The people who have forgotten Star Citizen are the only ones who are free. We who choose to watch this slow collapse are just as trapped as those who hope they are watching a slow assembly. Time has no meaning here for us. We repeat actions and complaints and sick burns and pizza fights endlessly. We will do this for eternity. All of us, together, in these grey stimperial wastes.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

If backers had put as much effort towards keeping CIG and Chris accountable as they do towards mocking Derek the game would have been out years ago. At this stage it doesn't matter. There is no game. There never will be a game. There will only be a continuation of CIG's failures, incompetence, and pathetic mismanagement until the money runs out. The story of Star Citizen is not about how one man managed to scam millions out of eager supporters. It's about how the unbridled enthusiasm of crowdfunding enabled a man to scam himself into believing he could do whatever he wanted. And there is no better conman than one who believes his own con.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

There's no way I could have guessed the year, but I did expect Chris to do whatever it took to maintain the illusion that he wasn't the biggest failure in the history of game development. Before he lies to anyone else he lies to himself. He lies about how he's competent, he lies about how he's successful, he lies about how his magnum opus is going to revolutionize gaming, he lies about everything. His only talent is self-delusion, of being so convinced by his own bullshit that he comes off as genuine to anyone he needs something from. Those who have already served their purpose are immediately disregarded for the next source of income. Original backers got screwed so that new backers could have previously limited features, older ships were abandoned for new concept sales, and now every backer left is screwed so CIG can enjoy a little more time on life support.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

One of the nice things about Star Citizen at this point is that things have pretty much calcified into their existing properties. Nobody here is magically going to be impressed and decide that, indeed, Star Citizen is good and will impress the world. Similarly nobody on the other side is going to see that and magically go "wow, they didn't show any gameplay" and decide to get a refund. People will see what they want to see, especially given how good Chris is at providing just enough rope for people to hang themselves on their own dreams. What I saw was a lot of really impressive work for a game that nobody actually paid for. I see planets that would look fantastic as flyovers during a cutscene, art assets that would be really great in localized encounters, and plenty of generic (but still nice) content. If CIG had maintained the original concept of instances linked by cutscenes, or if it was for a single player Squadron 42, then I'd be pretty impressed. But since the content they revealed has minimal impact on the expected gameplay, they steadfastly failed to show any kind of multiplayer interaction (or any real gameplay to speak of), and since Star Citizen is supposed to be a MMO and not a single player game there isn't much to be excited about.

What I saw was basically yet another indication of the things that actually matter to Chris Roberts; grandeur, scale, and derivative content. Look at how many times he talked about things that sound impressive like all those NPCs, the size of various buildings, provided a reference to a superior work of fiction like Blade Runner or Star Wars. Look at how little he talked about gameplay loops, or introduced mechanics that players have been waiting years for, or addressed core issues like networking, performance, or the flight model. Look at how a game that was meant to be a space simulation barely even touched space; indeed the only relevant discussion regarding actual space travel was how Chris apparently thinks that waiting eight minutes to travel between planets is somehow good game design. Look at how he thinks that showing hundreds of "procedurally generated" city blocks will somehow enhance the player experience, or how having millions of square kilometers of empty territory will lead to a better experience than what you can already get with Elite.

Star Citizen is not a scam, it's an ego trip. It's hundreds of people working on something, and doing what looks to be some good work doing it, to stoke the narcissism of a failed developer who is more interested in maintaining the appearances of producing a AAA title than actually delivering it. What we saw today was absolutely an indication that they are burning millions and using up a lot of personnel, and they are delivering on things. The problem is that what they're delivering has no bearing on what people are paying for.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Their MMO, which has been in development since 2011 (gently caress you Chris and your "full production" bullshit), can't handle the pilot of a multicrew vessel disconnecting from the rest of the party. Their MMO doesn't have AI, and required a full crew of people to fake a mission experience. Their MMO couldn't handle a rover driving on to a ramp without exploding, or feature two large ships fighting without turning into a slide show. Their MMO is so poorly programmed that they had to script a ship exploding when it got shot. Their MMO is poo poo.

Their MMO is being designed by a "visionary" who, given a year to develop a vignette to show off his dream for gameplay, could only come up with a lovely fetch quest. A visionary who is more concerned about marketing VOIP and some lovely webcam over producing any kind of gameplay. A visionary who believes things done a decade ago are somehow novel or interesting. Their MMO is being designed by an idiot.

Their MMO isn't a MMO. It's a case study in poor design practices, the perils of lovely oversight, the gullibility of gamer, and the myth of the "Great Man" game developer. It's a condemnation of Chris Roberts and irrefutable proof that he is a fraud who is better at spending money than designing games.

PederP posted:

But there's a very specific reason for the project being about keeping up appearances while raking in crowdfunding and pre-orders: The product they're claiming to make cannot be made. Even if the funding had been given to the best developers in the world with the best leadership at the helm, it could not be made. If they'd sold a project with a smaller, more feasible, scope, they would not have reached the current level of funding.

I think that's a very important lesson from this whole debacle, and a recurring theme with many crowdfunded projects: They're built on the deception that progress has already been made and they're promising something that cannot be made. This gives them access to the market for this speculative product, and right from the start sets the project up to dissapointment and anger the backers (when the real product inevitably differs from what was promised) - or to simply drag along as a masquerade until a plausible collapse can be fabricated (or an actual one happens).

It is also worth noticing that simulation, procedural content and/or AI are usually cornerstones of these fabricated games. All are easy to fake as in-development, all promise a paradigm-shift in gameplay experience, and present difficult promises to see through for many gamers. They're all noticably absent from the AAA titles with their high production values but shallow technology - thus creating a perfect opportunity to exploit the disillusion which is strong among some gamers.

Star Citizen and its ilk appeals to gamers who are like the Man in Black from West World - addicted to gaming and virtual worlds, but craving a deeper experience than what's being offered. They want a game with moving parts inside the space ships - not just fake polygon ships, they want NPCs who aren't just scripted to tell a story but with actual agency and existence, they want multi-player experiences with consequence and forced realism - fellow players need to be part of the game, not just fellow visitors to the theme park. But the irony is that many of these gamers are flawed and broken individuals, who would probably not capable of functioning in, or even enjoying, an actual virtual world.

This is not the last time we'll see a crowdfunded game promising ground-breaking technology and "real" games. There's a huge demand for these games - a demand strong enough to make many gamers forget how Radiant AI, Black & White, No Man's Sky, Horizons - to name just a few - turned out as parodies what was promised.

Some Star Citizen backers just wanted an iterative improvement on the sci-fi sandbox and/or spaceship-pew-pew genres. But this group alone doesn't have the spending power that the crowdfunding opportunists need - so they turn to the Men in Black. The original crowdfunding pitch for Star Citizen was full of signs that this was the case. Anyone claiming the pitch was ok, and it was the scope creep and mismanagement which have led to the current fiasco, needs to go read the pitch again. The drama and failure was inevitable.

I called this when I read the pitch for the first time. Derek Smart is on record as claiming it could be done. Those who kept clear of backing this outcalled the Warlord. I have no doubt this knowledge haunts him. He was once a backer. He fell for the scam. Out-witted by a Crobear, he thirst for revenge and is forever doomed to tweet his rage into the virtual void. Drawn to such a powerful source of nerd-rage, the virtual Cacodemons, hiding their true names behind monikers such as "Maht Daymun" and "minus 5 IQ Derek", grow ever stronger - tainted heralds of the end times, where the lost souls of gamers languish in unfidelitious console gaming hell. Will the Eudaemonic goons be able to save the day through lols and revealing the sickening truths? I hope so, the doggos and cattes deserve a better internet tomorrow.

G0RF posted:

Here's a crap thing I just made. I don't assume any precision in these, just am throwing them out there to model how I think Chris and Sandi look at things.

I suspect Chris and Sandi (and many others) do find themselves wondering on occasion, "Has Star Citizen peaked yet?" If they aren't asking it, they should be. I know the big publishers are. I know gaming journalists are. I know their critics and competitors are.

The truth is, we don't know. Last year was their best ever. Yet January is down by 20%, and the upcoming split of Squadron 42 and Star Citizen into products which must be purchased separately is an especially risky strategic decision. Profoundly so. CIG is no doubt calculating that splitting them up might make it even easier to keep the organization in "The Dream Zone".


"Now we'll have revenues coming from two separate games! We might even DOUBLE our monthly revenues going forward!"

Splitting the IP is going to finally give CIG a measure of the market viability of Squadron 42 as a standalone property.

If Chris isn't terrified about the possibilities, I think he should be. That project is his Dream Baby, so near and dear to his director's heart and his gaming legacy. He's thrown everything he's got at it.

-- A buttload of recognizable, expensive Hollywood actors
-- Phonebook-sized bloody scripts
-- Craploads of motion capture for different studios (x4)
-- Tens of millions of dollars
-- Endless hyperbole like "If I was doing a AAA Wing Commander for EA, Squadron 42 is going to be that and then some."
-- His wife

Expectations are sky high thanks to CIG hype and Gaming Mag amplification of it. Yet they have precious little to show for Squadron 42-- conspicuously little-- beyond uncanny valley cornball tripe uttered by A List actors who surely assumed at the time they signed on that being in this game was a great career move. It might end up that they've lent their talents to an absolute mega-turkey that ends up solely redeemed by the embarrassment of riches it provides in animated gifs. (I know we're excited by that possibility- but I doubt Gary Oldman and Co will be.)



What if - after the split - new backers just choose Star Citizen? The project they've heard so much about.

-- The one they can play with lots of friends. (theoretically)
-- The one with VR coming. (theoretically)
-- The one with procedural generation of planets. (theoretically)
-- The one with ship-to-ship combat between dozens of players (theoretically)that allows one party to storm the other and engage in satisfying FPS combat (theoretically) to secure the other party's ship and (theoretically) cargo?

I mean, I know Ben Lesnick is seeing his dream come true with this, but what if Chris learns that Ben and the Wing Commander diehards really are just an endangered species? I mean, if you spend hours with Ben a week, and all he does is prattle on-and-on about Wing Commander, it just might create false impressions about the worldwide demand for said game? What if most everyone who actually wants a spiritual successor to Wing Commander (nerds!) already backed Star Citizen to get it?

Does anyone else think this is a real possibility?

I mean I love me some space games, and have since before SF2: Trade Routes. As it stands, I could not give a rats rear end about Squadron 42. Even if I knew NOTHING about it, and then saw the Bishop speech and the Mark Hamill trailer and read gaming magazine hype pieces, I still would not give one crap for the game. It would take Metacritic scores of 90+ to get me to give it a second look. There is nothing I've seen that would appeal to me.

I don't know if I'm an anomaly in feeling this way. I'd hope for Chris' sake I am, yet knowing what I know about him, I can't.

ewe2 posted:

I was thinking about that reddit thread where Star Citizen members were defined as being part of a cult, and thought it would be an interesting exercise to match with an accepted list. So here is:

Star Citizen according to Cult 101

The TL;DR for impatient readers: there is a core group of Star Citizen players and contributors who exhibit signs of several of the defining characteristics of a cult according to this list.

Cults are generally very controlling organizations, often the higher level members are responsible for policing the group, giving the leadership a level of deniablity for some practices. To the extent of the belief of some Citizens, these cult characteristics do apply. However, the Citizen community can't be said to be a true cult because it is not a physically applicable organization, where all aspects of its members life are controlled. It only displays the superficial aspects of a cult due to the overzealous belief systems of its members.

Aspects which do not fit are generally ones where physical contact would be required. However, should one define "members" as being company employees, there may be cause to revisit some of these points in the future when it is safer for ex-employees to go public.

I am aware of the effect this list would have on certain sensitive citizens, and so would welcome explicit examples for and against each point to add to this document for future reference.

  • The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

    Clearly some members display these attitudes, or believe in a version they have fantasised for themselves.

  • Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    Not simply on the RSI forums, they are known to keep records on dissenters and even non-members. For instance, the customer services forum tagging, the following of backers on other forums and sites, and moving any dangerous discussion to a bitbucket known as the "concern" forum.

  • Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

    This degree of control is impossible for an online connection. However, there is a level of doubt-suppression involved in the fantasty-world of many Citizens that is encouraged by the marketing tactics of RSI/CIG.

  • The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    This degree of control is impossible for an online connection. However, within the bounds of acceptable use policy, there is control, and the degree of control of discussion of the game is strict.

  • The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    Clearly there are aspects of this involved in the Star Citizen community. Despite known facts to the contrary, Roberts is held to be a blameless visionary and his defects are ignored or explained away. Similarly, Citizens tell each other how special they are, and believe they will be rewarded for their loyalty and contributions.

  • The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    This is very clear, given their attempts to victimize dissenters, and all sorts of threats against dissenters have been made. The siege mentality of Citizens is also much in evidence.

  • The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    Not tested, certainly members do not accept any suggested wrongdoing.

  • The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before they joined the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

    Some members obviously believe any action against a dissenter or critic is justified and this behaviour is implied as justifiable by the actions of the company against dissenters and critics. This is not a minor point: actions do speak louder than words.

  • The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    No overt methods from the company here, but it has been seen between Citizens.

  • Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and to radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before they joined the group.

    Again, impossible without physical contact. There may well be Citizens who have done this, but as we only have self-reporting to go on, it's a doubtful point.

  • The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    Yes, Citizens are always prosetylising. There are numerous examples.

  • The group is preoccupied with making money.

    This rather depends on whether you see cult-like characteristics or long con scam characteristics. But money is the prequisite to joining the "higher" levels.

  • Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    No, but many do online.

  • Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

    No, but again many do online.

  • The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

    I've no doubt some Citizens feel this way, they are the most vulnerable.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Years ago we had a lot of fun theory-crafting how CIG was going to handle instances and players. This was before they went fully open and demonstrated that they could barely handle 20 people in an entire solar system, and instead every encounter would be an instance like a match in Arena Commander. Was an instance going to be player-limited or ship-limited? If it was ship limited, did a player going EVA "count" as a ship? What about NPCs? How would CIG balance the load inside an instance so that one team didn't simply fill it up and the other side would be outnumbered? Unfortunately none of these questions were ever answered, and given CIG's inability to deliver netcode I suspect they never will. The difference between a ship and player-limited instance was pretty critical. If the instance was player limited then it made sense to have everyone be in small ships to maximize individual firepower. On the other hand if the instance was ship limited then throwing a large number of bigger ships with more players made sense. My favorite bit of theory crafting was that, if CIG limited instances by the number of ships, then the easiest way to crash the server would be to take a transport ship full of players and dump them into space.

I miss those days.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

A lot of what we're seeing in terms of "progress" is easily produced fluff. It's easy to hire an artist to make a picture, have an amateur bang out a piece of terrible fiction, or to have two people sit in front of a camera and awkwardly talk about nothing. CIG does these things because they can occur in a vacuum and deliver a lot of "content" for little in the way of time or talent. It's all a giant farce while the actual developers struggle to produce anything while drowning in over half a decade of lovely code and half-assed implementation all while dealing with Chris constantly changing direction and demanding they drop everything to produce a demo. The actual hard stuff like networking, gameplay, optimization, and physics are constantly pushed back or hacked together so that the backers have something to play with. In the context of developing an actual product it seems insane, but in the context of trying to keep a struggling project afloat while hiding the truth from the backers it makes perfect sense.

Don't look at the terrible videos, lovely writing, or constant deluge of new ship sales and concept art in the context of game development. Look at it in the context of a company desperate to present the image of success while dealing with the reality of failure.

Beet Wagon posted:

The posters that come in here and mock Star Citizen or poke fun at the biggest rubes among the backer base are doing it because they think it's funny, or because they're fed up with the project. Nobody - not even me, the 'refunds guy' - cares even the slightest bit about turning people off of the game, or converting backers into doubters. I'll say it again for good measure: nobody cares what anyone here does with their money or whether or not they support the game. The so-called 'refund cascade,' the 'FUD,' the whole lot of all that nonsense is wholly and completely the creation of the paranoid minds of /r/starcitizen.

Toops posted:

Even if your feature design is simple, such as
{"air": 1.0}
Instead of
 {"nitrogen": 0.7809, "oxygen": 0.2095, "argon": 0.0093, "carbonDioxide": 0.0004}
that in itself doesn't automatically make the code simple. See folks, the hard part of programming isn't writing code that does a thing, it's the code that glues them all together, sends messages between all the different systems, and generally makes them work in concert to form a cohesive system, so that every function knows what to do, when to do it, and has the information it needs when they get called on.

It doesn't take programming experience to know that SC's code is a colossal goat-gently caress in this regard. You can feel it. Your intuition knows something is wrong down in the guts. Overall low framerates, massive game locks on the order of seconds, ridiculous collision/clipping issues, unresponsive UI, unresponsive actions (ahem doors, ramps), poor maintenance of state (doors and ramps again), etc. The engine is choking and sputtering like an old lawnmower that sat out in the yard naked all winter, because the information is poorly manicured, and the inter-system messaging is hosed.

If you're interacting with a system in SC, chances are 1 of 2 things are true:
1. That system doesn't have the info it needs and locks up waiting for someone to kindly send it along
2. The opposite; That system gets loving HADOKEN'd with a poo poo-heap of data, most of it totally superfluous, and has to dig through it with a fine-toothed comb to pull out a couple params

In my experience writing game code, this is much harder to get right than most other types of applications, for two reasons, which form a deadly binity:
1. Game code is inherently stateful
2. That state needs to be analyzed, compared with player input, altered, and bundled up into a frame that the video card won't choke on, as fast as loving possible.

You can't wait. If you do, you block the main update loop and boom, the game locks up, chugs, and the hapless player thinks "the gently caress is this poo poo?" Every compute cycle is precious.

A good SC example is when a ship spawns on the pad I'm standing on. Literal megabytes of unfathomably complex data structures describing every nuance of every component of the overdesigned fidelity chariot blast into your game client like the loving Kool-Aid Man, sending waves of panic and abject terror through every corner of your operating system.

Now, let's think about what happens here. This is massively over-simplified, and I added some details to help explain how this data is used, but when some rear end in a top hat spawns an Idris, the server will send you a hulking data structure that looks something like this:
  entityType: ship,
  name: Idris,
  model: models\ships\idris\chassis\idrisChassisModel.dat,
  position: {x: 2910, y: 99, z: 194729},
  positionType: world,
  components: [
      entityType: mainEngine,
      name: idrisMainEngine01,
      model: models\ships\idris\engines\idrisMainEngineModel.dat,
      position: {x: -20, y: 0, z: -500},
      positionType: rel
      entityType: rcsThruster,
      name: idrisMainEngine,
      model: models\ships\idris\engines\idrisMainEngineModel.dat,
      position: {x: 20, y: 0, z: -500},
      positionType: rel
... etc

Every one of those "components" are separate entities with their own 3d model. Each one has to be unraveled and loaded into objects (unmarshalled), their 3d model information retrieved from disk and loaded into ram/videoram, assembled according to their relative position, and plonked down into the game world at so-and-so position. As you can imagine, the more poo poo you have to unravel and load, the longer it takes. This is what pisses me off so much about Chris Roberts and his "FIDELETY" obsession. There is a very clear point where there's just too much information to process and your game locks up, the servers poo poo themselves, and the whole thing collapses under its own weight.

So what do you do? Well, you can make the ships simpler, which ain't gonna happen in a million hand-waving lifetimes, or you can defer the processing in order to unblock the main update loop. But that adds complexity, and now you have a state problem. Is the ship there or isn't it? Do I load each entity in its own thread? Well, how do I know when the ship is "assembled?" Surely some will load faster than others which means each ship component will "pop in" when it's good and god drat ready. And do you really think that'll fly in The Chris Robert Fidelity Funhouse? OK, so do I wait for every component's model to load in memory before it's allowed to visually spawn? Well if so, now every component has to report its state to some main-brain statekeeper who stands there with a clipboard checking boxes, then says yep, everyone is present and accounted for, let's glue all these 3d models together and start rendering it. What if we need to add a Hairy Roberts Drinkblaster 8000 to the bridge? How many lines of code will that touch?

This is why SC is getting worse, not better. They barely know what each system will do, and they' haven't even considered how they will communicate. Chris and his ramshackle crew of "game designers" are jamming panicky, poorly-conceived features down the devs' throats, who are forced to plop brittle, rushed //TODO: Fix This code into this witch's steaming poo poo cauldron. And man, I don't need to tell you, it's boiling over.

And so Star Citizen the computer program is just getting worse, and worse, and slower, and buggier, and choppier, and crashier as the bloated, abominable kludge slowly grinds to a halt and eats itself like Pizza the Hut.

This all happened because CIG did it full-on gently caress backwards. Your game designers need to have a really solid idea of not only what the systems are, but how the systems logically interact in order to build a gamified, cohesive logical flow that results in a fluid, contiguous causal map that resembles a game. You need to strip your features of all fluff, avoid details like the plague, keeping them simple, stark, and easy to understand. You need to build and assemble them as quickly as possible so you can prove your concept, and adjust the design when your assumptions don't all come true. Then you iterate, redesign, re-write, and hopefully, if you kept things simple, this isn't a massive undertaking. Code has to be designed to be flexible, but only flexible in the right ways. Too much flexibility kills your code because it's easier/cleaner to write something concrete. Death by a thousand ifs. And it really, really helps when you can do this without having to waste time on premature minutiae, trillions of polygons, sizzle-reel polish, drink machines, jacket layering, loving ARGON, etc.

Now the final coup-de-grace, which brings it home to my original point: Even if you do all this right and keep it simple, things that look simple on paper often blow up when you start coding. Simple components (in this case, "game systems") can fall apart at the seams when they have to start playing with others. But CIG doesn't have this problem, because they've never done anything simple. They still don't even know what their game systems are supposed to do, let alone how to code them individually, let alone how to assemble them into a working game, let alone how to make that game fun.

In closing, Star Citizen is not good, it's not bad. It's nothing. A huge. loving. Nothingburger.

Toops posted:

Star Citizen Defense Playbook:

Timeline Criticisms:
  • CIG had to build a company from scratch, including hiring, building studios around the globe, etc.
  • R&D doesn't count.
  • All those games had engines already made. CIG is building their engine from scratch. It is called "Star Engine."
  • Those other games actually started development and R&D way before those dates, don't you know anything?
  • Star Citizen already has way more content than any of those games.
  • Star Citizen is doing something that literally no one has ever attempted before. Ground-breaking innovations take time.
  • Those games are bad because money-grubbing publishers forced them out the door before devs could make them into something good. Star Citizen doesn't have publishers, and no deadlines, so this means Star Citizen will be better.
  • This new era of gamers are impatient little bitches. I don't mind the wait, I have patience. I keep pledging so Chris Roberts will have as much time as he needs to recognize his vision.

Bugs, Lack of Content Criticisms
  • Star Citizen is more transparent than any other company, ever. You're seeing how the sausage is made.
  • There is way more content than they are showing us because they don't want to spoil it.
  • What are you talking about? I just spent <X> hours playing the game it's great/runs great/no bugs/perfectly smooth/amazing.
  • You obviously don't understand game development. Bugs like this are totally normal for a game in this stage of development. Have you ever heard of Alpha??
  • Don't be a part of early access if you can't handle some bugs.
  • All of those things you just listed are on the schedule, they will be delivered in <patch number>
  • They are doing a lot of the ground-work tech / pipelines that will pave the way for faster content creation later.
  • Oh, they already have the tech for <most of new feature that came out of nowhere>, it's not much effort to add.

Funding Model, Sales, Marketing Criticisms
  • Star Citizen is doing something different. They are bypassing the greedy publisher model only cares about profit and kills innovation.
  • Nobody is forcing you to pledge.
  • I backed the game because I believe in Chris Roberts's vision, it's the game I've always dreamed of playing.
  • All the ships that can be bought can be acquired in-game, therefore not pay-to-win.
  • The game does not have subscriptions. You can subscribe to help pay for weekly content which gives us insights into game development never before seen.
  • You're not buying land! You're buying the ability to claim land. Huge difference.
  • It's not a scam. They have offices all over the world and the game is playable right now.
  • CIG is not in any kind of financial trouble, just look at the funding tracker.

General Rebuttals
  • Why are you even commenting if you hate the game so much? What kind of sad person just goes around tearing things down?
  • Oh look, another Derek Smart alt trying to spread lies and mis-information about Star Citizen because he's jealous.
  • Known troll/goon. Downvote and move on.
  • How many AAA games have YOU released?
  • You are entitled to NOTHING.
  • Even if the game never comes out, I’m proud to be a part of it, at least Chris is trying.

G0RF posted:

Star Citizen is good and the thread is proof.

Statutory Ape posted:

Lol as a person that has paid $0 for star citizen and also never played it, its one of my favorite games

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Sep 30, 2018

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

TheAgent posted:

Mocapping a few animations that end up blending into other animations is all fine and good, because its usually a brief second or two of animation that your anim team has to hand scrub anyway.

Mocapping an entire performance gets tricky. If you're not 100% confident of the take, you can have a lot of problems. You get weird wandering heads, eye darting, jiggling jowls, hands and arms and legs clipping through clothes and backgrounds and other characters and a whole lotta other weird poo poo you gotta clean up by hand. These happen no matter how good your take is anyway, but the problems get more severe the less you understand about the technology and the more you utilize it. What might look great on the screen can be very, very hard to translate into a great performance.

What you end up doing, usually, is doing small point captures of various scenes. What no one has loving done because its goddamn stupid, is record 20+ hours of mocapped data. Especially if you don't have the model dimensions down, the scenery already fleshed out. Every rewrite or change is another huge amount of time, money and energy wasted.

So in walks Chris Roberts with his directorial dreams, not understanding the following:

  • for every second of footage you shoot in the mocap rigs, it can take up to a ten minutes of dev time per character to fix (sometimes more)
  • some scenes were shot with many, many characters (up to six to eight)
  • multiple clothing changes or scene changes can increase this time
  • the more characters interacting together in a scene, the more time it takes per character to animate correctly
You're talking with that 20+ hours of mocap footage alone, something like 12,000 hours of manpower at the very minimum. But wait, this only really works if these are all entirely cutscene type deals with 0 player interaction. Because then you need programmers to script the triggers for the 20+ hours of conversation you have going on.

To get that into a fully working state for 20+ hours of mocap, I'd say that's three to five years of work across art and programming teams, after the principle mocap shoot was completed. It's about fifteen times longer than your average cartoon 3d animated film AND you're trying to hit the highest fidelity ever seen in this media. That means extra work on hair, clothing, textures, shaders, everything for every single character and every single costume has to be absolutely perfect in every. single. loving. scene.

This also means any script changes or rewrites or other problems after the principle shooting has to be reshot, completely redone by the art team and then rejiggered by the programming team.

This also means that the game you're building to showcase this amazing twenty hour long opus needs to be built as well. And you're not just building a single player game, but a heavily multiplayer driven MMO style FPS action game too, with hundreds of not entirely fleshed out mechanics. And if you gently caress up and realize "poo poo, we can't get this <whatever feature> to work right, but we have an hour+ of footage important to the game that needs that feature," you need to go back and edit and reshoot and have your artists and programmers redo a bunch of work again and again and again and again and again and again

Sillybones posted:

I have posted it so many times; how can any coder of any level think that making three games "modules" by three disparate teams and then merging them together later could work? Why didn't anyone loving stop this retard idea? Can a journalist actually pin him down on this one, because it keeps me up at night wondering?

Chin posted:

Ecosystems and planet terrain: Chris: "We're planning to have..." "The concept is that..." "We're definitely going to have..." "And I think that'd be cool, and longer term we're hoping to make it so there will be..."

Implementing ArcCorp, a planet entirely covered in factories: TonyZ: "We've talked about this in the past and basically the idea is that..."

Handling disconnections in multicrew scenarios or players logging in and out on long-term guild run campaigns: Chris: "The concept we're going with is that..."

Ship security: TonyZ: "Eventually we're going to have..." "I can see..."

Stealing ships: Chris: "We will have those systems in." "We wanna make it so..."

Scaling mission difficulty: TonyZ: "Yeah, what we have right now is actually far simpler than what we're gonna have very shortly..."

Environmental or manmade risks in the PU: Todd Papy: "From a design standpoint we want to be able to create..."

Ship maintenance, components wearing out: Chris: "We're also gonna have..." "We've talked about -- it's not in..." "The idea is that..."

Throughout: TonyZ: "Y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know y'know..."


The Titanic posted:

Even the dream of Star Citizen is kinda crappy. People overlook it because everybody thinks they'll be Han Solo and never be dumb enough to be killed. They think they're going to play the heroic savior or kind benefactor or impossible to stop pirate, while avoiding these huge pitfalls. There is cognitive dissonance between looking at what CIG is implying and saying "and what will this be like to actually play?" and since nobody seems to stop dreaming about the impossible long enough, thinking the AIs will be anything more than walking on a track and doing canned animations every few steps, everybody seems to overlook that the game just sounds not fun to play. It sounds punishing. Which might be good for a Pay2Win game though. Suffer on a planet for 10 hours or pay $5 for a miraculous rescue taxi!


One of the reasons why the people in this thread are so resentful of the project is that pretty much everyone here believed in it in the past. There was a time where the goons had the largest "fleet" in the game.

We believed in the game until it became clear that we were being lied to, tricked into giving money to fund an egotist's voyage of discovery to find out that actually he's not a genius or even particularly visionary.

It's ironic that the continued support of a minority of backers makes us angry at their stupidity, because without them we wouldn't have been able to get almost all of our money refunded. $300,000+ has been refunded to just the people on this site.

I guess it's only fair that we try our best to discourage people from spending more money on the game. Every time they do, they pay money directly into the pockets of people who are smart enough to get a refund. Eventually, probably within the next 12 months, the funding is going to stop and so will the refunds. When that happens, there are going to be a large group of backers left holding the bag - the least we can do is discourage everyone we encounter from being in that group. posted:

I haven't lost faith in CIG yet. But that's all it is at this point. Faith. A belief that something exists without real evidence that it actually does. With the last minute pull on the demo at citcon, and the unbelievably embarrassing livestream that was supposed to be the end of the year assurance, that faith is quickly fading.

Scruffpuff posted:

I think the safest criticism is that it's a legitimate enterprise that has devolved into something of a Ponzi scheme. From Wikipedia:

"Ponzi schemes occasionally begin as legitimate businesses, until the business fails to achieve the returns expected. The business becomes a Ponzi scheme if it then continues under fraudulent terms. Whatever the initial situation, the perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme."

AKA "We failed to build what we thought we could with your money because we're mind-bogglingly incompetent - please buy more ships so we can finish designing the ones earlier backers already paid for."

Unlike a Ponzi scheme, where the guys in charge at some point realize what they're doing, Chris Roberts is too stupid to understand even the most elementary principles of almost any subject imaginable. As a result, you can't even really call this a Ponzi scheme - just an idiot burning other people's money.

Wrecked Angle posted:

For gently caress sake CIG. You're 4 years into development and you have nothing to show. A 30 minute video of 4 middle-aged nerds sat in director's chairs talking about vague ideas of 'this might happen' or 'we're thinking it could be like...' or 'maybe it works like...'.

You've blown through ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!!! Stop loving talking. Go and show me these systems, show me the work in progress, show me the proof of concept, hell show me the loving design documents.

You're promising to make the most ambitious and complex game ever created and you're still talking about concepts for basic functionality like a loving logoff timer... or fuel rods for ships... after 4 loving years!

Do you know what I thought of when I was watching that? Those 'Relay' nerds or whatever they're called. Tell me, what is the difference between Crobbler and Tony Z sitting there talking you through their ~~DREAMS~~ and Dolvak or bowtie dude talking you through his? Neither are gonna loving happen! It's pie-in-the-sky, 'imagine how cool in would be' bullshit which they ask you to pledge hundreds of dollars to prove that you believe.

Don't give them any money. If you've ever given them any money apply for a refund to get it back. This is my Star Citizen meltdown and you can have it for free.

gently caress Chris Roberts.


1. Sunk cost mentality. Most of the more emphatic backers have put in hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars into "supporting" the game through the purchase of digital ships and game packages. The money itself becomes justification that things will succeed, as the backer considers themselves a smart person and smart people don't pay for scams. This is true for both the individual investment as well as the communal investment of over $140 million.

2. Cargo cult community. At this point the community is largely self-policing, aided by the draconian moderation of the main forums and the inherent structure of Reddit that silences unpopular opinions. They are convinced that Chris Roberts will deliver the promised game in the same way that they remember the original Wing Commander and Privateer with nostalgia. Anyone with a dissenting opinion is either ignored, or has already received a refund and is therefore unlikely to interact with those still immersed in the project.

3. Predatory marketing. CIG's marketing methods are incredibly predatory. They routinely use high pressure tactics surrounding "limited" features or content (LTI, concept sales, alpha access, limited ships) to encourage backers to spend more. They also wall off early access behind a subscription (subscribers get access to the Player Test Universe, the testing server updates go to before they hit the live testing server but after they hit the invite-only testing server), devalue previous purchases by offering cash-only sales, and push the concept of "open development" as a mantra even as they wait to reveal significant information such as delays or a major engine switch.

4. Chris Roberts. For whatever reason Chris Roberts has mastered the art of telling people what they want to hear, especially when it comes to nerds and space sims. Backers are convinced that the game Chris Roberts is developing will be their perfect game, even as more of the game is revealed and is shown to be a shallow, insipid, milquetoast experience. He has a history of doing this in a variety of fields, and backers are all too willing to fool themselves to believe they'll get what they want.

5. Lies. One of the biggest things that CIG has done is created the myth that the community supported CIG expanding the scope and schedule of Star Citizen through additional funding. In reality backers supported CIG expanding scope without increasing schedule through the use of additional funds to generate more content. CIG has repeated the lie so many times that backers believe it to be true.

HKS posted:

Remember when they sold a $2000 ship that can carry 70 players and each will play a separate role and this was all part of a massive MMO and people said yup that's possible?

And then someone was like but I don't have 70 friends? and they said well you can fill it with 69 completely autonomous NPCs that will behave exactly like humans to a degree where you cannot even tell, and people said yup that sounds good?

Some of the smarter people asked 'hey man how is that possible?' and the answer was 'it's Chris Roberts!'.

I remember, just lol man.

Xarbala posted:

I'm glad CIG gave the thread one last big cup of coffee before Christmas

Wikipedia posted:

In project management, a death march is a project that the participants feel is destined to fail, or that requires a stretch of unsustainable overwork. The general feel of the project reflects that of an actual death march because project members are forced to continue the project by their superiors against their better judgment.

Software development and software engineering are the fields in which practitioners first applied the term to these project management practices. Other fields have since recognized the same occurrence in their own spheres and have adopted the name.

Death marches of the destined-to-fail type usually are a result of unrealistic or overly optimistic expectations in scheduling, feature scope, or both, and often include lack of appropriate documentation or relevant training and outside expertise that would be needed to accomplish the task successfully. The knowledge of the doomed nature of the project weighs heavily on the psyche of its participants, as if they are helplessly watching themselves and their coworkers being forced to torture themselves and march toward death. Often, the death march will involve desperate attempts to right the course of the project by asking team members to work especially grueling hours (14-hour days, 7-day weeks, etc.) or by attempting to "throw (enough) bodies at the problem", often causing burnout.

Often, the discomfort is heightened by the knowledge that "it didn't have to be this way"; that is, that if the company wanted to achieve the goal of the project, it could have done so in a successful way had it been managed competently

D_Smart posted:

I will fight this to the very bitter end and at whatever cost.

Gamasutra posted:

If CIG scales back their staff during development it will be a disaster. MBAs and execs tried this during the mergers and acquisitions craze in the 80s and 90s. The logic went like this. Sales are down 50%, we need to cut labor cost by 50%, so we cut out the low performing 50% of employees: The remaining staff should be able to produce at 50% to 60% of capacity (since we got rid of the poor performers). Here's what actually happens: Your good employees that you kept on, jump ship immediately because they worry about job security and want to be on projects with upward momentum. They have to be replaced and hiring costs soar. Those that stay, spend a good portion of their day gossiping and worrying about whether they will still have a job next month. Productivity drops, and that 50% workforce cut leads to 30% to 40% capacity as morale sinks. This has been tried again, and again and again. Scaling work forces like this causes enormous morale issues, which leads to high turnover and low productivity.

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 10, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

Thirsty Dog posted:

Here, have an on-topic post:

Anyone who thinks Lando is some kind of bomb waiting to go off and spill the beans about CIG/Roberts is kidding themselves, you only need to watch some of the vids from Gamescon and you'll see just how eagerly he talks complete bullshit in service of fleecing people for money. He outright makes poo poo up unprompted about what can be done in game, what's in development, and what's just around the corner. I know he looks harmless and sometimes he can act like he's all ironic and poo poo, but he is as wedded to this project as anyone else. He's a cynical motherfucker.

Pity the fresh meat devs who are very clearly out of their depth, not guys like Lando, and don't look to him to blow it all open.

XK posted:

That animation of the Origin X1 is so many kinds of retarded, there's not much to say about it.

I thought the idea of just doing a bunch of space bikes was to keep the new ships sold simple. They're even loving that up.

You know drat well that stupid poo poo with four parts moving around to let the commando get in didn't come from the artist. Then all the pull outs with modules. That's crobbler all the way. No artist would do any of that if somebody wasn't foisting it upon them.

Gravity_Storm posted:

One thing i notice is that Chris never has any kind of notepad with him at the meetings. This says:

1) he goes to meetings to TELL people what to do, he never gets any actions
2) he has not in any way prepared for the meeting he is in.

Tnuctip posted:

If you rearrange no go, it spells goon

Alpha Patch 3.0.0 has been released to the PTU


You will have access to planetary surfaces for the first time on three moons (Yela, Daymar, and Cellin) along with an asteroid (Delamar). These new surfaces are expansive[/b]

Oxygen Supply: Many areas, such as space or the moons of Crusader, do not have breathable atmospheres and are dangerous for characters unless they’re wearing a pressure suit. Most pressure suits are equipped standard with an oxygen tank. As you breathe, you will slowly consume the oxygen inside your tank. Your oxygen tank will automatically begin to refill once you are inside an area, station, ship or outpost with a breathable atmosphere. If your oxygen supply runs out, your pressure suit contains a small buffer of oxygen to provide you with a short amount of time to try to find an oxygen supply. If your suit is not sealed or you’re not wearing a helmet, you will not have this buffer. If you do not have any oxygen available, you will asphyxiate and quickly pass out.
Stamina: As you exert more effort by running, jumping, etc., your muscles work harder and begin to consume more oxygen. To keep up with this higher demand, your heart rate and breathing increase to provide your muscles with a steady supply of oxygen. Wearing heavier armor will increase how much effort it takes to do actions and will tire you out sooner. The more you exert yourself, the harder you breathe and the faster your oxygen supply will be depleted.
Heart Rate Monitor: The heart rate monitor on your helmet’s HUD and in your mobiGlas functions as an exertion/stamina meter. As a character exerts themselves, their heart rate increases. If a character exerts themselves too much, they will enter a Hyperventilated state. This will restrict the actions that you can perform, and things like running, sprinting or vaulting will be blocked until you exit the Hyperventilated state. Heart rate and breathing can also effect recoil handling and aim. As your heart rate increases the character’s aim will begin to sway, ranging from a minor wobble to wild drifting. Once levels reach certain critical thresholds your vision will also begin to be effected, slowly dimming till it goes completely black. Once your heart rate returns to normal, so will your vision and movement.

Bofast posted:

Umm.... that's just ever so slightly cult-like

big nipples big life posted:

I hope someone breaks the NDA soon so I can find out just how owned we are, it's really stressful knowing you are owned but not how much.

darkarchon posted:

Nothing screams fidelity like a seam on a moon.

AP posted:

Monthly Studio Report: September 2017

More motion capture in LA or Austin.


The Derby Studio was busy moving into the new studio! After spending four months split between two offices, they’re finally back together under one roof where there’s a lot more space.

The Motion Capture and HeadCam systems were set up to run tests with the Audio team, who came down from Wilmslow in preparation for an upcoming shoot. The team also completed a bunch of facial animation and polished cinematic facial animations.

Over the past month, the Animation Team created assets for the Alpha 3.0 release and beyond. They have been updating the placeholder animations for the Player stopping. The goal is to provide a higher visual fidelity and realism to how Players move within the new speed gearing system. Animators also worked on jumping. They needed to balance Star Citizen’s signature high-fidelity look with a manageable amount of assets for when the animation bank is extended to the female model and various stamina types. Plus, they worked on stealth takedowns.

In addition, they worked on developing daily routine and life animations for characters and mission givers. A recent shoot in the Austin office focused on these behaviors, which the Derby team is now tracking and solving. The animators also added more life to the Star Citizen world with conversations characters have as they go about their routines. Finally, on the ship side, the team delivered updates for the Sabre ship set and captured enter/exit animations for the new ground-based vehicles.
New Derby office mentioned.

Sabreseven posted:

See, the 'bug' thing is quite funny and very apt, but I can't take my eyes off all the perfectly straight 'join' lines all perfectly parallel in alignment and all running W-E in the original image, as if googlemaps made the map for this 'moon' from satalite photos stitched together in lines.

See them?

The Titanic posted:

I feel like a broken record sometimes, but SC is built on the basis of an arena shooter with twitch type combat.

Building that framework into an mmo isn't a trivial task, to the point where even very low level core functionality needs to be built with an mmo type framework behind it.

What CIG is trying to do is streamline an arena games networking capabilities until it support hundreds of simultaneous players in a level all with twitch shooter capabilities, moving between different control styles (space, ground vehicle, personal, including all these variants with the option of being inside these objects as well).

Effectively what CR thinks he can do is take something incredibly streamlined like the GTA multiplayer system, which manages to do all these things, except set the player count to 9,000, and it will magically all work because he wants it to.

They're running into network issues not only because they don't have talent, but because they aren't even building an mmo yet; they're still working on a very poo poo tier multiplayer arena shooter framework and trying to ramrod more players into it than it can support. You don't build an mmo by making a basic multiplayer game and then deciding you will just set the maximum player count to 9,000 per "mesh instance" or whatever lies he's told, and it just works because you are so good at motion capture.

Now this is ok because Squadron 42 was supposed to have drop-in/drop-out cooperative stuff. But this is not good for Star Citizen itself, which is sold even today with ships that have more crew requirements than they can even get working over 5 years into development.

Nobody wants to acknowledge this, but based on this, Star Citizen has not even begun development yet.

Tokamak posted:

Lets put development resources into coming up with a watermarking scheme to catch out and punish our most devoted backers for leaking footage of an alpha patch beta. It's the most inconsequential poo poo, especially when it isn't even being passed off as final code. I have no idea why they care so much since the release version is just as broken as the beta. Yet another case of Goon/Derek paranoia dictating development. It isn't a lot of work, but why even spend a day on it?

[User made private some videos that show the game is still as broken as ever. Have fun with your vibrating commando killing ship in 3.0, and then having to pay an insurance claim to fix it.]

D_Smart posted:


Won't be posting vids or images as that definitely breaks NDA (and is identifiable) but I can give you a general overview about day 1. I made a special account to do this to avoid doxxing but I am a regular poster.
Positives: Item 2.0 revamps look super nice. The details on the new ships really show how much time they've put into them. They look great.
The stamina system and UI changes are fun and top notch. Some animation issues but that can be cleaned up pretty easy.
Cargo is simple point A to point B. Functional (well with the usual alpha bugs). But numbers go up and down.
Moons are moons. Think like smaller ED moons with a bit more terrain. pretty cool. They need to update the procedural generation as many mountain ranges are very clearly just mirrored or identical over small areas.
Negative so far: I average FPS in the teens on my hefty rig. The servers though are REALLY not stable. Anything more than 3-4 people on the server and things just fall apart. Its currently limited to something like half a dozen players in one instance but you'd never notice because you aren't getting that high and not crashing. I've never had an evocati even half this bad. The netcode fixes can't come soon enough.

I am completely shocked that's all he has to report on such a critical and much anticipated patch.

loving they actually think networking is going to get better.

thatguy posted:

New leak from the guy who leaked the other stuff. Looks like he's successfully removed the watermark with a neato filter as well as blurred the names. This leads me to believe we should expect more/longer leaks in the future.

TheAgent posted:

I mean this is like core poo poo

this should not be happening this far into development

it means they need a serious rewrite of their physics, collisions and god knows what else

fuckin lol

I don't think I made it clear -- in that 1 minute video there's at least 3 massively fuckin huge problems they need to address, and since we've seen variants of those same bugs since project inception, I'm guessing it will take at least six months to about two years to fix without adding additional content

just those problems. just those 3 fuckin problems

like how can anyone see that and think "wow they ahve this nailed down! this is going to be awesome!"


its poo poo. its going to remain poo poo.

enjoy your poo poo.0

peter gabriel posted:

A person who got super secret access to a publicly funded alpha that is made proudly with 'open development' but only shown to a select few makes a video and has to use video editing software to remove a watermark from it and blur his name to remain anonymous.
The video shows the culmination of over half a decade and $160 million worth of work carried out by 400 people.
In the video a space bike jitters wildly and flickers into view. Over 25% of the 1 minute long video is glitches. The rest looks remarkable in how dull it is.
This is it, this is Star Citizen.

TheAgent posted:

when your spacebike glitches through the hull, sending you out at 12km/second and then the server crashes and you log back on to find yourself in the middle of nowhere but now you can't suicide because of persistence or something and the super harsh death penalty

you call for a pickup from your friend but he's not online so you have to hound him via text to come get you and after 2 hours his ship is finally there and while trying to enter the same loving thing happens and you go whizzing off deeper into the black

and then you go gently caress YOU DEREK SMART and pledge more because its obviously derek smart doing this to you, its always been derek smart because it has to be, it has to be, chris roberts said it was going to be everything and more and more and its fuckin perfect and and and derek derek dereks HUGE COCK gently caress

Mirificus posted:

r/starcitizen_refunds: List of professional game devs with bad things to say about Star Citizen

Yo2Momma posted:

I've found that authority is one of the strongest factors surrounding belief or doubt in Star Citizen. Perhaps unsurprisingly. People gave money because they believed in space game rockstar Roberts. They doubted Derek Smart because of his bad reputation. And as a layman I've generally had poor luck trying to reason with believers through separate evidence and self-constructed arguments.

It's just easier to listen to the simple verdict of an authority figure.

With this thread as basis, I was directed to check Derek's Facebook page for such authoritative statements. It's an oft repeated line that the game dev community is tiny, with everyone knowing everyone, so even someone like Derek has plenty of pros on his Friend list.

I intend to dig them and their anti-SC sentiments up and link them in this thread. A big undertaking, not done in a jiffy, so I suspect I'll be coming back to edit this thread over time. Then link back to it from elsewhere as needed.

Oh, and don't worry about me digging through somewhat personal stuff. I got permission from the mods, and Derek himself, surprisingly.

Lladre posted:

I forget with all the stuff that happens with this fiasco, but did we already know that these guys have been making models and ships for CiG?

It's like every time I turn around they have yet another outside company doing their work. WTF are their crews even doing?

Toops posted:

This whole 3.0 evocati release is still pretty eerie. I feel like a lone wolf gunslinger walking through a deserted gold rush town looking for my nemesis for the final showdown. As a single tumbleweed rolls by I notice there's a bunch of crows and buzzards circling something just out of view.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

August 2017

G0RF posted:

"Soon there will be a jump gate that can take me to the Helios system! I bet we'll have underwater vehicles by then and I can explore the vast depths of Helios II! I'm going to set up deep sea mining operations as soon as its live so I can get a head start carving out my thrilling future as an Oceanic Mining Tycoon!"

But there is no jump gate, there is no Helios, there is no mining, there is no economy. The adventure of a thousand lifetimes starts and ends in your head. But fear not, there is something original already in the game. Consider it a goodfaith down payment on the wonderland of creative treasures inbound soon, the stuff that's going to leave Rockstar, Bethesda, and everyone else in the industry in the dust. Do you like noodle-dispensers with immersion-breaking nods to real employees working for this gaming studio? Capital! You'll find them pretty much everywhere and we've even arranged them into a Stonehenge structure to destroy your immersion and our creative credibility even further...

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Star Citizen.

Blue On Blue posted:

The problem is crisp crobblers should never have been in a management role to begin with

If he had just been a consultant, I bet there would have been a game to play by now

Hey guys make me a successor to wing commander and make it an open world sim, I'll check in every 6 months from my villa in Monaco to offer some advice on direction

you hired all these supposed experts in their field and you just micromanage the living poo poo out of them. I'm surprised more haven't walked out, no one likes to be micromanaged let alone by the likes of a washed up wannabe movie director

Please Chris for the love of god go away for a long time (And never come back)

Percelus posted:

star citizen is my eternal gamer valhalla

bacalhau posted:

So they were trying to achieve this internally using ASIO and attempting to animate based on audio recognition. Needless to say it was a complete waste of time and money.

Shortly after that poll they showed a demo of their new audio system on ATV. They recorded lots of audio of clothing rustling, dog tags jingling, ammo packs clicky clacking - every limb on the model had a wav assigned to its animation.

It was a disaster. They used a stereo mic to record the foley, and because they had so many individual wavs playing when the commando ran down the corridor they had to pan some of them hard left and hard right - already a big no-no for the player character - on top of them already being in stereo.

Even now, with a third party library and sdk handling the positional voice in their 3.0 presentation - the left & right audio channels are the wrong way round.

Character walks to the left, her voice moves off to the right.

So that nice Behringer powered desk that some of you spotted? Yeah, they had the line out hooked up the wrong way round for the stream. Didn't even test their channels. And the big new feature was positional audio. I mean come on.

I'm waiting for CIG to show me one single thing that even reaches amateur level, just one thing.

no_recall posted:

This a main core gameplay loop issue. Which is baffling because nobody knows what its supposed to be. In all the showing which CIG has done, its all with spectacular explosions and easy to kill ships. i.e Railgun missing the cutlass and exploding ($125 maybe?).

Comparing apples to apples, ED's time to kill for class vs class, i.e cobra vs cobra can vary between 5 mins and 30 mins, given both pilots know how to deploy stealth (silent running), recharge shields with boosting out of firing range, use chaff, countermeasures and etc.

In SC however, this is rarely expressed on with $250 ships just exploding in 5 min battles (gamescome 2014 multicrew reveal?), superhornets ripping aurora ($45) to shreds with a single burst, cutlass ($125) doing a 180 without the pilot blacking out and blowing up a $350 glaive with its own missiles. Aside from showing off awesome cockpit animations, bells and whistles, ship ladder animations, cockpit startup animations, all which lend zero to actual gameplay, We don't know or have not been shown actual in-game value of these ships, value in terms of actual combat capability, trading capability, and even stealth capabilities. What CIG often stresses on are how cool or rather how much your signature is dampened by this awesome +$100 hull, and how awesome this ship's engines are or how capable a ship is in combat, without actually demonstrating anything.

Its car salesmanship at its best.

Reddit posted:

What's troubles me is that it was a tech demo more than a gameplay demo. One year to add one mission to a NPC? We're screwed at this pace. What about Cargo? Mining? Wild life? Storytelling? Purpose for anything in the game aside that using a fighter ship?

Scruffpuff posted:


how? how do you blow so much company money, without breaking the law?
In short, the most extreme cart-before-the-horse development the world has ever seen. Chris Roberts paid several A-List Hollywood actors millions of dollars to get on camera next to his unfortunate wife, and paid tens of millions of dollars for motion capture before they had a functioning game engine and before they knew if they could use any of it.

He spent millions more creating, throwing away, recreating, re-throwing away, and creating yet again several spaceship assets before he had a functioning game engine, and with no consideration as to whether or not those assets would work with each other, the engine, or the aforementioned motion capture. Spoiler: it didn't.

He also spend untold millions of dollars building 4 studios around the world, because successful game development studios have that. The fact that real publishers earned them over time by actually creating and releasing games is lost on him.

They also spent millions of dollars creating a real-life Truman Show analogue consisting of constant video feeds, "behind the scenes", "lore", fake world assets, and thousands of hours of complete bullshit video intended to make it look like they're making progress on a "game."

What Chris did not do - what nobody in CIG has ever done - is decide what Star Citizen is. Nobody has created a game design, nobody has proposed a core game loop, nobody has considered even one single moment of gameplay or how any of this will work. It's just Chris Roberts continuing to exist as the genetic error he was born as. Stupidity is expensive.

The Titanic posted:

Now when he was inventing render to technology for his holograms, it's very critical to understand that this is video games.

If you want a hologram, you clone your model and give it a snazzy "I'm a hologram!" Shader so it looks super cool.

Easy to use anywhere? Heck yes! Just add your "hologram-guy.character" to your scene.

Development time? You've already got the model, just build the shader and textures for it. Maybe what, 2 weeks to make it look like something straight out of a Hollywood movie?

Difficulty in implementation? Equally as difficult as animating any other characters in your game. Shouldn't be hard hopefully if you've got a handle on animation.

Hardware overhead? As much as a character plus that shader, shouldn't be enough to kill a scene where you want a hologram to be. Spawn holo guy in the player's room, then when done despawn it.

That's the logical way, because it's a video game, where "cheating" doesn't exist, only how you creatively do a thing.

Now compare this to CIGs version:

Easy to use anywhere? Need to set up an extra camera and extra entire area around the character in the scene. Basically, it can't be a spur of the moment thing since the scene will need to be built around it.

Development time? Probably between 8-20 months.

Difficulty in implementation? Each scene using a hologram will need the hologram character spawned in some special area other players can't find it, including an additional camera and linking. Every player using it will somehow need to not overlap wherever the hologram guy is at in the world. Will be complex to figure out in a multiplayer setting, and I have a feeling CIG hasn't gotten far enough to figure out how this is actually going to work.

Hardware overhead? Entire character and additional scene needs to be rendered on screen, then rendered again to a texture. A single scene will need at least 3 times the amount of work per frame to render, more depending on how shaders or scene filters are implemented.

Overall CIG spent tons of effort to overcomplicate something that will not add anything that cloning a character in a location would have done.

I guess the only real added benefit is instead of just getting "a character" hologram you can also see the surroundings of that character too since it's a scene with another camera. But that may make the hologram not stand out and look busy, so it they may end up turning off the background scene, effectively wiping out the only real "benefit".

Also it will probably help to kill your frame rate, which for Star Citizen is kind of an expected feature at this point for everything they do.

TheAgent posted:

This is what happens when you outsource big portions of a massive project. This is what happens when all experienced developers with shipped games leave your project. This is what happens when you've been stuck in perpetual crunch mode. This is what happens when you promise, collect pre-orders for said promises, and then begin to try and prototype those promises into existence. This is what happens when you have no firm design docs to guide your project. This is what happens when you put graphics above gameplay. This is what happens when you pick your engine for cinematic feel. This is what happens when you constantly redesign existing assets because they "aren't good enough."

Star Citizen is what happens.

smellmycheese posted:

When you can't even deliver half the things promised by a snarky goon in a leak shitpost from 7 months ago it really is time to pack up your JPEGs and go home

Super Foul Egg posted:

Sandi walks awkwardly onto the stage and picks up a still-warm corncob.

Reddit posted:

CIG has done this many, many times, it's their M.O. They hype things hard and delay by months, if not years. Chris Roberts said we would be playing 3.0 in December 2016. Then CIG showed up hat-in-hand and said sorry guys, it's gonna be June 2017! Now it's almost September. What will happen next is CIG will go silent and the weeks will tick by, no game. They'll change the narrative to make us focus on something else (like Squadron 42, which had a release date of 2015. Then 2016. Now ?). A handful of SC white-knights will attack anyone who questions the new narrative. They will talk in the present-tense about features that don't exist. It's a cycle I've been observing for years. I want Star Citizen to succeed, I really do. But I cannot ignore the enormity of CIG's incompetence, and I make it a point to balance the narrative away from blind faith towards the middle ground.

Slow_Moe posted:

You miss one deadline, it's a tragedy. You miss a million, it's a comedy.

Frontier Forums posted:

There are countless people promising the world or the sky and often enough there are people who so desperately want that vision to become true that they will donate or give money to it. Most of these scams are short-lived tho because people stop caring if nothing ever comes to fruitation. A well managed scam lives from a carrot on a stick and this is something Chris Roberts and his family are pretty proficient in sad as it is. We are basically talking about extortion by now. CR lost my trust back in 2014 and everything he has done since then only confirms my initial impression. I am always amazed how people are willing and able to twist their own perception and willfully ignore obvious flaws and hints in order to "keep the dream alive". Due to the short attention span of todays population the frequent release of ATVs is an absolute MUST to keep the money-train going.

You always have to wake up eventually tho. A dream is just that, a dream and eventually even this one will come to an end.

Frontier Forums posted:

Star Citizen reminds me of a delicate crystal statue. Its looks beautiful but touch it and it falls apart. Its meant to be watched, not played with. Wouldnt that be a shame for Star Citizen?

kilus aof posted:

Star Citizen needs your help commandos. 1 JPEG = 1 prayer.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

October Set 2

The Titanic posted:

Latin Pheonix posted:

I was just thinking today; if/when SC does go down, there's going to be lots of unhappy backers who, despite their blind faith in the project, will still be looking for their 'dream' game to be made. Any ideas on where they might turn to? Elite? the new X game? No Man's Sky? Dual Universe? Beyond Good and Evil 2?
Hold on to your panties though because this is going to blow you away.

Ok. Here we go:

The backers don’t actually play games.

They don’t even play Star Citizen when it iterates out.

The game they’re in is a meta social game, and they’re already playing it.

Star Citizen coming out would actually hurt the game they’re currently winning at and enjoying.

They won’t gravitate to another game because they don’t actually want to play the game.

What will eventually happen though is people will get bored. The ELE as it happens may just be the simple fact that they no longer want to spend money on lies. Once their buddies leave their discord’s, and the role play dries up, and there are too many holes in the lore, and the reality of the game solidifies, it comes apart.

I don’t have links to my blog, but I’ll say it again:

Star Citizen coming out and being developed will kill Star Citizen.

It’s fuel is the dreams and fantasies of 40-something’s who are fighting to rekindle a lost art they fondly recall from their youth. CR came in at almost the perfect time to capitalize on this midlife crisis group. Instead of buying their own Porsche’s they’re blowing their money on space ships.

The guys on reddit aren’t funding anything. They’ve already spent their meager amount of money and CIG can collect no more from them. Their defense also isn’t helping anything because the guys funding it ignore them too.

The mmo is happening right now. Once they win it, the money goes away. They won’t invest in another game either. This is the childhood memory game, and soon the midlife crisis will end.

As they get closer to leaving crisis, they’re going to want their money back, too. They’ll probably pay for lawyers as well because they have money to burn from successful and lucrative careers.

The other side of them are the people waiting for it to come out. 3.0 is “that turning point”. The group who isn’t role playing is waiting in the shadows for when their new Eve Online appears. They’ve been lead, oh so wrongly, to believe 3.0 is “that product”.

People are wondering “why stop refunds now? Why before unveiling 3.0 and their biggest achievement??? They’re spoiling their best, possibly last, big opportunity!!”

And I feel you’re only getting half the picture. The other half is what the evocati fuckers have, and are likely filling up their mail with problems. 3.0 is hosed, and it’s bad, and it looks like and plays like a joke of a game; not something a multinational company has been working on 24/7 for over 5 years.

This “stop the refunds now!” is a preemptive play to kill the silent majority of big money whales, waiting in the shadows, who have been paying all along, buying all the stuff, no doubt being fed lies about 3.0 in different methods of communication. Either special forums, private one on one email with their preferred employees, etc.

So really, there’s two fantasy groups who are huge benefactors who need to be stopped before they pull their money out.

1: The fantasy role players playing the game right now (and are almost done with it)

2: The silent majority led to believe 3.0 is where things get real and they can join in to the huge Eve-like mmo universe with a custom character and awesome fleet

Both groups represent huge $$$. Both are about to tucker on out or get real pissed.

Anyhow that’s my hot take. I’m sending this scoop to pixelemonade right now!


I was a Kickstarter backer and had nearly $500 sunk into this game. I pulled the handle last month and did a refund.
I would've done a partial refund if they supported it (I honestly don't know why they don't) and just got back the money I spent on ships after Kickstarter, but since it was all or nothing, I went with 'all'.
If 3.0 comes out and delivers something not-terrible, I'll probably pick up a cheap ship package on sale, because I'll still play the game if it comes out. But I wasn't going to hang $500 on 'if'.
Honestly, my decision to refund wasn't even totally based off of game performance and delays. It was because Star Citizen was not shaping up to be the game I was sold. I was sold on a game that promised to be closer to a simulator than not, but as of the last patch, they've walked away from everything and it's just turning into a very good-looking, generic arcadey bullshit space shooter.
I backed a space sim, not Call of Duty: Lasers Pew Pew. I waited on the FPS mechanics and was given the most generic by-the-numbers arcade FPS experience, and that forced my hand.

Ponzi posted:

I remember that during the pre-release phase of ED, the pilot's auto head-movement (due to g forces) was automatically turned off when using VR.

Then after one of the updates, this internal setting was accidentally disabled by the devs. The result? No-one could stomach ED in VR for more than 30 seconds because it hosed with their brain. No-one reported that they were fine with it. All reports said the game was currently unplayable in VR.

Fortunately, FD rushed out an emergency patch to fix it and everything was good again.

So the moral of the story - the VR implementation is highly sensitive, and needs to be done correctly, otherwise the experience is just nauseating. All the SC pre-canned animations are going to lead to vomit-central in VR.

Toops posted:

There are some real choice bullet points from the 3.0 patch notes that I find particularly stupid/meaningless/

- Fixed a crash in COrderedMeshBV::Build
(Nice aspberger's guys, glad you made bullet points for each crash you fixed, and the thing that necessitated every crash fix getting its own bullet point was the loving class name that nobody gives a poo poo about)

- "We are working on some extra Graphics code for the GPU particle system to support the creation of new VFX to implement space dust at points around Stanton. This will continue to be iterated on to create some more elaborate assets."
(read: scope creep. see also: loving SPACE DUST???)

- With the gameplay we’re adding in to 3.0.0, we’re conscious that there may be some other players that would love to kill you and take your ship. To help prevent this, we wanted to implement some basic security that will allow you to lock the ship, so only you have the ability to pass freely through its doors. Part of this work includes adding destruction for external ship doors to allow for the other half: basic breaching / boarding.
(read: scope creep. see also: Damage States for the doors we can't get to work.)

- We are very keen to make the Stanton map feel more organic as a real environment and having the planets rotate and orbit will really help with this.
- This will also introduce a proper day/night cycle when you’re on a planet surface which in turn opens up further gameplay possibilities.

(why are these)
(two different bullet points)

- We want to give players the ability to more intuitively interact with items and objects within the game, but also find ways to indicate to the player what type of interaction they would be performing (pick up, start conversation, push button, etc).
(what the gently caress does this even mean, what are you talking about, what kind of patch note bullet point starts with "we want to ..." then describes incredibly vague yet contradictory things... this is pure loving cat drugs)

I can't read any more of this bullshit I'm getting pissed off again.

reddit posted:

Honestly, and unfortunately, the game sounds like a steaming hunk of poo poo.

reddit posted:

How exactly does CIG intend on making an MMO out of this?

Dusty Lens posted:

A common misconception is that the stretch goals were meant to aggregate rather than supersede. So each new stretch goal actually cancelled out the one before it.

The last stretch goal was abandoning stretch goals.

This might clear up a lot of the perceived issues with SC development.

Milky Moor posted:

MOONS piled high

Beet Wagon posted:

Chris has already made it abundantly clear that he has no idea how to deal with the "Have a friend steal my ship and then make an insurance claim on it blammo two ships" issue. At one point he was seriously considering in-game insurance adjusters whose job would be to go around and root out insurance fraud. I believe there was mention that it would just be a job any player could do, like any other mission. There were also some convoluted thoughts revolving around unique hull-numbers and the idea that if you stole a spaceship from someone you'd have to go to a shady dealer to get the numbers filed off which would cost a bunch of money and be dangerous, until it was pointed out that that still didn't solve the issue.

As it currently stands in game ships are incredibly easy to steal. Once the 'owner' opens the door even a single time it will open for anyone, but even if the owner isn't there yet, any ship that has a single turret is able to be entered by going to the outside of the turret and selecting the "USE" prompt that shows up because CIG can't figure out the clipping issues. In many cases getting into a 'locked' ship is as simple as using your EVA nipplejets to thrust into it at full speed and magically clipping through the solid wall to the inside.

e: unless we're talking about some new news about CIG losing my credit card information or something, which in that case just lol

Dooguk posted:

When the ship that your in
Starts to wobble and spin
Get a refund

ewe2 posted:

when you bet all your chips
then the game never ships
you're a moronnnn

ewe2 posted:

when da moon hits your legs
like expensive jpegs
thats fidelityyyyyy


When your game design bloats
Devs are mod'ling three coats
You're The Chairman
When your hair looks like stoats
And you're sailing on boats
It's crowdfunding
Goons will parp tarp-a-larp-a-larp, tarp-a-larp-a-larp
And you'll sing fidelity
Whales will say early-early days,early-early days
Dreaming in futility

Thoatse posted:

when it's 10 fps
and the netcode's a mess
that's cig

Incitatus posted:

when your surfing pornhub
watching an old tickle rub
that's a sandy

trucutru posted:

When the moon hits your eye
like a big pizza pie
That's an Archer

ZekeNY posted:

When your codebase is crap,
And you shout, "more mocap!"
You're a Roberts

peter gabriel posted:

If your room smells of sweat
And you're thousands in debt
You're a backer

Toops posted:

When you make Star Marine
Flush it down the latrine
You're Illfonic

Colostomy Bag posted:

When the funding is down
Because we employ clowns
Have a ship sale

Colostomy Bag posted:

Will Robert Space Industries provide us with a Carfax? If I purchase a Javelin I want to make sure it does haven't flood damage by flying over some cryovolcano.

BloodyScab posted:


Clive Johnson CIG@cjohnsonOctober 14th at 02:35 pm
Hi tom5598
You're right that the networking side of things doesn't get the spotlight very often - that's just the nature of the work really.
I think sometimes this lack of visibility can be misinterpreted as secrecy or a lack of progress, but neither of those is the case, and pretty much everything we do is shown in the production schedule.
The only things that aren't in there are those that can't easily be scheduled like bug fixing. Also sometimes we need to change priorities and the schedule can lag behind a bit.

To give you an update on the specific technologies you asked about :
Server meshing - not started yet. Our plan was always to make the single-server experience better and more optimized first.
Server meshing is going to build on the technologies we're creating for single servers, so these all need to be in place before we can start.
Also it is going to be challenging and complex work that will need the focus of the whole network programming team, so once we start work on it we don't want to be fighting a war on two fronts.

ZekeNY posted:

kilus aof posted:

All 3.0 leak footage should be uploaded to Pornhub so CIG have to log onto Mae Demming's account to DMCA it.
Some things are too obscene even for Pornhub

Toops posted:

Star Citizen is an epic, space-based MMO being developed by Cloud Imperium Games… and they couldn’t do it without you! The company has taken transparency to a whole new level by inviting their supporters to look ‘behind the screens’ at AAA game development like never before. Join representatives from Cloud Imperium to learn about how they stay connected with an incredible community of enthusiastic gamers and space fans as they build a new universe together.

Tyler Witkin
Tyler Nolin
Matt Sherman
Ben Lesnick
Jeremiah Lee
Jared Huckaby
So they're sending a walking moon and a disheveled hobo to discuss how they corral hopeless space dorks into the money pits, hook them up to the milking station, and systematically lie to them in order to meet extraction quotas? Got it.

Then Ben "Moon" Lesnick, Master of Spaceships is gonna do a live demo for the autism showcase panel? Can't wait.

I predict comedy.

kilus aof posted:

CIG are sharpening their whale harpoons.

trucutru posted:

That's the Pioneer, quite likely the "game changer" Ben was all excited about. It's probably going to be the ship you need to buy to setup outposts in planets. If so, it'll make millions.

e: yeah, it is

Omniblivion posted:

This feels like the Real Life version of scamming pubbies that want to get into GoonSwarm in Eve Online.

1) Build this big dream of paradise and how great it is to be part of it
2) Offer people a taste ~for a fee~
3) Drag out the admittance process by claiming that the pubbie is a spy
4) Suggest that ~another fee~ would be a game changer and expedite their admission process
5) Tell them that they are being invited but never actually invite them
6) Have them bring all their stuff to somewhere convenient for us
7) "Accidentally" gently caress them over and take or blow up all their stuff
8) Repeat step 4) indefinitely
9) Most importantly- never, ever, admit that it is a scam.

This is an actual scamming playbook that goons use

CR is either the most genius goon ever or a pubbie sunk by this scam and seeking space revenge

The Titanic posted:

Virtual Captain posted:

Lladre posted:

I am still waiting for evidence to show someone walking upside down on a piece of terrain that has someone else walking normal on it in a no gravity situation.
They don't have it (will never have it) because it isn't a 3d game at all just a bunch of 2d planes getting floated around each other.

You should be able to have someone fly a retaliator upside down to one of the landing pads and then have the guy walk out off the ramp and be upside down to the station landing pad.
Sounds likely to me. Could also explain why magnetic boots were working in 2014, then mysteriously stopped working ever since. I don't have a strong grasp on the "gravity zones" timeline but I remember it was a technical hurdle that any backer will tell you was solved a long time ago.

If the short term fake-it-for-now solution was to make each gravity object (station, ships, bennyhenge, etc) a floating 2d plane; it may have displaced the more complex logic that controlled anchoring a player to an arbitrary surface. A year or two passes and now it's too difficult to take out the short term solution because every ship seemingly takes months to implement thanks to whatever horrible manual process they have.
This is a good example of the CIG MO.

1: We have a problem
2: We sort of identity the problem, somebody explains how easy it is to fix and how they break new ground
3: Problem does not get solved
4: Nobody talks about the problem again
5: Somebody talks about another problem based off of solving the first problem as if they solved it
6: Goto 1

The whole step 5 part is what kills me. And people seem to think it’s completely solved because CIG acts like it is.

Like this weird ongoing struggle with doors. loving doors, man.

Or this constant talk of an MMO when they can’t even get 16 people in a stable environment; and those 16 people aren’t even near each other. There’s no loving MMO in sight.

But CIG pretends like there is, or perhaps I should say lies like there is. They sell ships that require more players than the game can support.

Now they have “base building” but there’s not even housing for people like community apartments. There’s the hangar “module”, and that’s been promised as being something your friends can visit you in since like 2012.

Some day, backers may realize they’re being blatantly loving lied to. Constantly. CIG can sell anything but they can build nothing into your game. They don’t even have basic flight dynamics working well and the game is supposed to be about loving space ships.

Remember a long time ago when Star Citizen was a space game about flying a ship in space? With your pet and a highly customizable space ship?

Remember that?

That was of course before they realized they couldn’t code anything that works. Like I said in my July blog 200 years ago, once CIG came to terms that the best they can hope for now is a very pretty, indie studio grade gameplay, version of Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare everything is focusing on how much junk they can fill an FPS game in a FPS CryEngine level now. Space is just a janky module attached to it as a method of traveling between different FPS maps.

Funny enough, back when there was a “race to release first”, Star Citizen naturally failed, and CoD:IW has been out nearly a year now in another month. I’m sure SC it right around the corner now though, especially since it’s got a jank filled, early access poo poo, alpha release of 3.0 with virtually nothing 3.0 was supposed to have.

Any day now.

Any loving day.

For proof of how far along CIG is in development, ask anybody on their forums or reddit sub how trading, LTI, ship repairs, or character death is going to be handled. These are some of basic loving foundations they’ve been selling since day zero, and nobody has a clue. Yeah, it’s almost done though!

The look when you only find out that your #star role as "Vic's Mom" was cut while attending film's premiere #AmericanSatan #StarCitizen

Scruffpuff posted:

Sandi Gardiner, "actress", being nixed 100% from her tour de force as "Vic's Mom" is the most delicious ending of the #actress #Hollywood saga that I can possibly imagine.

She hitched her wagon to Chris Roberts (again) and this project specifically to pad her IMDB profile, use backer money to create reel after reel of useless self-promotion, stand shoulder-to-shoulder with actual acting professionals, and get her face and name on a promotional poster with top billing alongside them. This is what it was all for - this, to Sandi Gardiner, was the full purpose of Star Citizen.

And this is how it ends. Not with a bang, nor a whimper, nor even a PAARP.

It ended with nothing.

Sandi Gardiner wasn't even good enough for a straight-to-the-trashbin release of a poo poo-tier film. Imagine being that bad. That in a film that's cringe-worthy from beginning to end, somewhere along the line, the editor and director sat in the room together and thought, "We have to cut that one. She's dragging the whole thing down."

That's like walking into an open cesspit and pointing out a particularly aromatic turd.

It's a beautiful analogy to Star Citizen itself - which will end in precisely the same way - simple nonexistence.

I couldn't have imagined a better ending.

TheAgent posted:



Stop trying to get refunds. Your money, that you gave us, is gone. It went to developing dreams; not yours, but the people in charge here. You paid for them to live out their dreams: Ben, who finally got to work with his idol; Sandi, who got back into acting; Chris who got to direct an absolutely stellar A list cast. For everyone else, you've given them hundreds of thousands, if not millions, to pursue whatever they want to do. I'm sure they thank you for helping them do what they've only dared dreamed.

The rest of us politely say "Stop emailing us asking for your money back." I know the official line is that everything is great and we are making money like crazy, but it's not. Things here are dire. They've been dire for awhile but you can feel the shame and terror every time you walk into the building. I know this is coming off harsh. I don't care. I'm sick of working here and I'm especially sick of the whiny emails I continue to get. What did you expect?

I cashed out four months ago via GM. If you can sell a ship to a buyer, take it. Take it for half. Just take it.

You can also email and ask for a partial refund for 10%. Those we will approve without a problem, although it might take six or eight weeks to process now. Otherwise, stop asking, stop emailing and stop whining. Just stop.

  • Refunds delayed
  • New concept ship name and price revealed (Pioneer, $850)
  • Sandi's bit part cut from theatrical release of American Satan seemingly without her knowledge, which apparently is a bad movie anyway
  • AtV shows 16+ people meetings about doors and UI elements that are "finicky"
  • TheAgent with a possible employee e-mail venting frustration over refunds

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Oct 23, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

October Set 3 - Run up to CitizenCon

Beet Wagon posted:

illectro posted:

Jared and Ben both have SA accounts, everything in SC has goons involved.
Let's be real, almost every choice CIG has made at any given step during this has been the gooniest possible option. It's goons all the way down.

Foo Diddley posted:

Disco Lando: "The game is practically finished y'know at this point"

Latin Pheonix posted:

The game is both almost finished and barely started; it is trapped in a quantum state until you release 3.0 and the waveform collapses.

BloodyScab posted:


That session was as cringey as I imagined. I loved the condescension toward people questioning how long it's taking them and that their development cycle is completely normal. Also, Jeremiah jumped all over the guy who has $200 in the game when he politely asked about feature creep.

Fuckin pansy comin in with the weaksauce feature creep crap. Its not 2013. Its fuckin October 2017 we are on Thetan level 12 here get with the fuckin program

Like get fuckin real you know the score, either stay bought into the cult or leave.

Beet Wagon posted:

lol their new turret thing is insanely dumb and it makes me glad I got rid of my Retaliator. Slaving your turrets is going to take away slots for upgrading other poo poo in your idiot stroller


For each turret you wish to be AI controlled i.e. it engages and tracks independently of player or NPC input, you need to have a Blade equipped for that. Ships that come with these types of turrets either have these blades already installed or additional computer items to hold them in, as blade space is restricted. This is designed to force players into choosing between adding this feature or other blade features when customizing your ship.

Blue On Blue posted:

MilesK posted:

Over 1,070 professionally produced youtube videos.

When you consider the key to brain washing is cycling people between boredom and overstimulation, Star Citizen makes a lot more sense.
Why are they so proud of wasting money making youtube shows?


tooterfish posted:


"Star Citizen is an epic* first person experience spanning hundreds** of solar systems, where players can fly highly detailed spaceships, battle on foot through massive*** space stations, explore life sized planets****, and discover adventure***** in an ever expanding****** and changing******* galaxy********."
*Epic is subjective, so I'm not lying!
**One is just one hundred that's been truncated a bit, so really if you think about it I'm not lying!
***Massive depends entirely on your point of view. For example, if I stand next to a dollhouse I look totally massive, like Godzilla! So I'm not lying! (Ben looks massive stood next to anything though)
****Scientific consensus gives the minimum required diameter for definition as a planet as 2000km, so our planets are technically smaller than anything you could sensibly call a a "life sized" planet. However there is a general classification of "minor planet" for things they can't be bothered to call anything else and there's no lower limit for those, so I'm not lying!
*****Some of our retarded cash dispensing morons valued customers seem to enjoy pushing an entirely client side vending machine around. This is technically an adventure (it gets especially tense near ramps!), so I'm not lying!
******The ship you bought that was marketed as the premier dog-fighter that punches above its weight? It's now a biowaste reclamation truck, literally a poo poo hauler. Don't worry though, it still punches above its weight. Oh and I think you'll find that's a "change", so I'm not lying!
*******Some may argue a single solar system can't be classified as a galaxy, but I disagree and if I could concentrate for more than 4 seconds I'd give you a good reason why I'm not lying! Buy an Idris, the coke's running out, and the screeching wails of my wife lamenting the state of her acting career are starting to set my teeth on edge!

SomethingJones posted:

Frederick Brooks

I cannot believe I've never heard of this guy.

"Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later."
"Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment."
"How does a project get to be a year behind schedule? One day at a time."

His book 'The Design of Design' sounds fascinating.

Toops posted:

Yeah his insights are more true today than flipping Moore's Law.

Read The Mythical Man-Month. Also, read AntiPatterns. It will explain CIG almost perfectly.

I mean just look at this list:

- Cart before the horse: Focusing too many resources on a stage of a project out of its sequence
- Death march: A project whose staff, while expecting it to fail, are compelled to continue, often with much overwork, by management which is in denial
- Ninety-ninety rule: Tendency to underestimate the amount of time to complete a project when it is "nearly done"
- Overengineering: Spending resources making a project more robust and complex than is needed
- Scope creep: Uncontrolled changes or continuous growth in a project’s scope, or adding new features to the project after the original requirements have been drafted and accepted (also known as requirement creep and feature creep)
- Smoke and mirrors: Demonstrating unimplemented functions as if they were already implemented
- Brooks' law: Adding more resources to a project to increase velocity, when the project is already slowed down by coordination overhead.

I prefer the Brooks' law definition that goes like this: "Adding more people to a project that's late will only make it later."


Truga posted:

Yeah, you kinda need to know how your networking is going to work and then work from there. You can get away with a lot with their model (authoritative server/predicting client), but it's a model that only really works well for simple games with not too many moving parts, like shooters.

Take something like battlefield for example, it seems complicated at first, you have tanks, choppers, you can see how many people are in each, and so on. But making games is all about cheating as much as you can, so each vehicle is serialized to just 1 actor in netcode, with pointers to people in them, and then hit points, position, orientation (+ turret orientation, if it's a tank) and speed (for prediction purposes), and generally these games only run at 20-60 ticks per second and the rest is filled in by your client's prediction, which it does by running the same game as the server at a higher tick rate, and adjusts every time it gets an update, and it does all the pretty poo poo that happens on your monitor like calculating suspension physics etc.

So you get away with clients not needing much bandwidth, since there's a max of like 80 very simple mobile actors on a map (max players + max vehicles), less if there's many people in vehicles. Grenades, tank shells, bullets, etc all get simulated on each client completely independently, the clients only get the "player throws grenade in direction", the server then just confirms hits when needed, which is why you once in a blue moon get killed by a grenade or bullet that wasn't there on your client due to local error due to latency/packet loss/whatever.

Meanwhile in star citizen every ship is like 47 actors, and spawning in a medium sized ship sends like 10MB of data over the internet so the correct variant with the correct guns, tv, shower stall, thrusters and outhouse spawns in your game, during which all the clients must wait (and, in the case of star citizen, they don't even render new frames while waiting apparently, so the game stutters to gently caress constantly. who the gently caress makes the renderer wait on network I/O, jesus loving christ is this 1991?), and then it sends 43 different thruster updates every tick because they swivel and exhaust at random and everything grinds to a loving halt.

At these amounts of data to track you should be using lockstep (all the clients are calculating the exact same things and only player inputs that modify results + a heartbeat to stay in sync get sent between clients), but lockstep is a slowass piece of poo poo that works really well for RTS games where having half a second of delay between click and shoot doesn't matter (see: warcraft 3, runs exactly the same with 2 players and 12 players at max capacity), but would be absolutely terrible even for the spacesim part of the game, much less star marine.

Oh, also, the server in SC isn't very authoritative after all, it just believes any input the clients send, so cheating is the easiest thing on earth. Or at least, it was that way when I last launched the game 2 years ago, though I see no reason that'd have changed, seeing how nothing else has.

Toops posted:

Let's ponder persistence for just a second. From what I've seen, CIG has only a few of these items currently "persisting."

So let's say I'm flying in a ship, and I have a smaller ship inside my ship. Someone is sitting inside the smaller ship.

Now, let's say I disconnect. What happens?

At this simple point, here's an abbreviated list of what we need persisted so that when I reconnect, I can resume what I was doing:
- what ship I was in
- the ship's coordinates in 3d world space (x, y, z)
- the ship's rotation in quaternion world space (w, x, y, z)
- ship's loadout
- contents of ship's inventory
- state of the ship's doors
- state of ship's lights
- landing gear and other ship "stuff"
- health/damage state of ship
- remaining ammunition on ship
- fuel level of ship
- did I remember to lock the ship?
- remaining beverages in hairy robert's cocktail machine
- the state of other ships inside my ship (which includes everything listed above)
- my specific 3-d coords (x, y, z) relative to the ship
- what color space underpants I was wearing
- is my space helmet on?
- my health, THC levels in bloodstream, etc
- my weapon loadout
- my character inventory
- mission statuses
- my current amount of available spacebux
- all my various reputations
- UI/HUD settings
- is my friend still in the ship? if so, where?
- is that ship still in my ship? where? What are its states?

Every bullet point is data that needs to be stored server-side in the database. Most of them will span multiple tables, if not multiple schemas (like ships), and you'll need specific queries for each entity type, as well as all the joins, that can create, read, update, and delete that data. Think of how much work you need to do on the back-end when crobberts wants to add a new ship feature. Update all the databases, add/remove columns, create new tables, add new queries and/or re-write old ones, change the code that interacts with the database, change the nectode which sends/receives it, change the clients, etc.

There are so many types of things (domains, entities) that you need to constantly sync to the database so that if the server goes down, or when people connect to the server, they can get in sync with the game. And everyone is constantly reading from and writing to the database, sending that data over the network. How many edge-cases can you think of that could cause problems?

It's always the details that get you. Fidelity is a warm gun. That's why almost every early access game starts strong (well, almost every EA game...). They get a few prototypes out, everyone's excited. Then they pivot hard from "Hey, this might actually be possible" to "Holy gently caress every little tiny detail is way harder than I thought, and none of them are working right, and even the stuff that works right feels like poo poo, I have a massive backlog of bugs already, I need to refactor 3/4 of my work because it's rushed and messy, we're way behind, we're running out of money, we probably need a top to bottom re-write of our core features, and I can't survive on 3 hours of sleep and cold ramen for much longer or my wife will leave me and take the children and I will have a mental breakdown."

reddit posted:

Cheap knock offs mostly have fake trailers with "not actual gameplay" footage, pretending to be like SC.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

reddit posted:

And I'm back with another email excerpt with a very busy Avocado friend. Here's more questions with a lot of long answers and no filter or edits.

Q: How's testing this week?
A: So far, we've had 4 new patches each smaller than 1GB, thanks to the delta patcher.

Q: How's performance in the most recent patches?
A: E and F were dogshit with constant 30K errors and CTDs. Patch G gave me 60FPS on the US server for the first time, and it didn't drop me to less than 30 FPS on a full server. Other Avocados reported occasional errors and CTDs, but I was able to test for a couple hours at a time and I was able to visit a few outposts in all 3 moons and Delamar without crashing constantly. Then 3.0H came around as an 800MB patch along with the Gladius-Moon focused testing and my FPS tanked back to the 20s, presumably because we were stressing full servers with as much Avocados as possible in staggered waves with military precision. That happened last night under Proxus and Underscore's direction while Ahmed pulled the server plug after each wave.

Q: Have there been more directed tests?
A: Besides the ones I mentioned already, no. Trading Kiosks are open for testing with the latest patch, so we might get cargo-trade-focused testing runs this weekend.

Q: Have there been new things to test since our last chat?
A: Some ships that were previously broken or floating off the landing pads are now able to be tested, like the Vanguards, Connies, Prospector, Merlin, and others. The Ursa is drivable again and the bikes are less jerky, so you can haul them to the moons and use the race track. Biker gangs are a thing now, and formation flying and QTing is online via quantum linking of ships using the COMMS MFD. Cargo and trading kiosks came online with H, so we can buy and sell cargo now with 0 profit. 1 SCU of cargo costs 10aUEC each and we can choose what ship to store them. The Caterpillar seems to have the most cargo capacity AFAIK. The Port Olisar to Levski run is the farthest and longest run, but it's satisfying to me. You can find cargo boxes you can carry from derelict sites and outposts that you can then sell, assuming you don't crash or get the dreaded errors.

Q: What's your favorite thing to do in 3.0?
A: Seriously? Cargo runs and exploring unmarked moon outposts. Each one has its own company or style, ie Rayari, ArcCorp, Benson, etc.. Some outposts are just small shelters, while other outposts have everything you need to settle in and take off your space suit because it has breathable atmosphere. You mean the interior? Yeah some have ASOP terminals, cargo boxes, office rooms, bunks, storage rooms, small kitchenettes, space weed rooms, laboratories, and creepy teddy bears. Outside the outposts, there are landing pads where you can spawn vehicles, various mining and industrial structures, solar panels, communication towers, and what look like moisture farms which explain the interior atmosphere in large outposts. Some outposts have NPC outlaws that you can kill to access the interior. This is done through the missions app with different categories like job, investigation and retrieval, but the mission system still needs some fixing and tweaking.

Q: How are the NPCs this time around?
A: CIG enabled them again, so they're running around Port Olisar and Levski, fixing poo poo, manning various stores, leaning on walls, scratching armpits, sitting on benches, having inaudible conversations, etc.. There's no NPC ships that fly around just yet. I'd prefer it that way for ETF testing because Port Olisar is busy enough as it is with space ATC enabled and dipshits loving around instead of following directions or using ATC. Miles still can't be interacted with, but I'm sure CIG is working on it.

Q: I'm sorry to ask again. When do you think we'll get PTU? CitizenCon?
A: That's way too optimistic. We just started the second phase of ETF testing aka cargo and trade. We've yet to really test the missions system. My honest prediction is not in November or December. I know the public is dying to get their hands on 3.0, but realistically don't expect it by Christmas to be brutally honest. There's a probability that CIG will open it up to PTU on New Years' Eve, but that's pure speculation and optimistic at that. I don't like to speculate, so please stop asking me about dates.
"Hey everyone I just got a leak that everything is amazing and we are all in 60FPS biker gangs and flying in fleet formation through canyons and ships and people are everywhere there are NPCS and so much activity and mechanics going on! The style of all the amazing outposts and features in them alone!"

"WOW, I guess this $850 purchase is completely justified now! Just read those leaks!"

Rad Russian posted:

Let me guess, they decoupled client fps from server ticks to boost it but now physics get completely out of sync and it crashes the client. It's one or the other with ScamEngine!

There is literally no other explanation of getting a 3x-5x boost with one patch. It will also backfire horribly down the line to just do it like this, without first introducing an extensive networking redesign of the engine.

Quavers posted:

"Crashing With Fidelity"™

Star Citizen: now crashing to desktop at higher frames-per-second

shrach posted:

Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd filed their 2016 accounts today. Oddly the Companies House website now says they are processing for 5 days, but they were fully readable before. Here is my blog of things I made notes of as I browsed the accounts.

This year they filed their consolidated accounts. This means that rather than being just that company, the set of accounts is consolidated to include all the subsidiaries. Any transactions between subsidiaries/parent are cancelled out.

Intellectual Property
The accounts preparation improves year on year as errors get picked up. I've pointed out the IP issue before and it's now apparent what happened here.

On the 1st of July 2015 CIG UK paid £1,359,185 for Intellectual Property. This isn't entirely clear but the suggestion would be that this was for the worldwide rights to Squadron 42. The sale of intangibles for £654,612 was the US rights of Squadron 42 being sold to Cloud Imperium Games Inc. Because of apparent errors in earlier sets of accounts we can't be sure where that £1.36m actually went to, it could quite easily be to Chris Roberts himself, or a personal services company that is essentially himself.

Fixed Assets
These are actually broken down for the first time since they filed consolidated accounts. In the UK they've spent a little over £1m on computer equipment to December 2016. £400k on Fixtures and fittings. £300k improving the leased premises.

This is an accountancy term that represents the extra cash paid for an asset. If a company has a value of £34,851 and you pay £440,000 then in your company's set of accounts this is recorded as an investment of £440,000. In your consolidated group accounts however, you include the activities of the subsidiary. Because of this, you do not include that investment of £440,000. You reverse it out through a set of journals which includes the value of the assets at £34,851 and the goodwill figure of £405,149. The goodwill is then amortised (written off) over, in this example, a five year period.

As you have no doubt guessed, these are the actual figures for Cloud Imperium Games Ltd's purchase of Foundry 42 Ltd from Erin Roberts et al.

Related parties - mistakes
Note 20 on Related Parties Transactions. Accounting errors. All amounts are actually due to the respective companies, but they are in brackets so the lines that currently read "due from" are correct (Like a double negative).
It's an easy mistake to make, but it's surprising that a professional auditor wouldn't notice it instantly. All three disclosures should really read something like, "Amounts due (to)/from" and it would be easier all round to understand and avoid mistakes such as the one made.

Related parties - analysis
There's three US companies under Chris Roberts control that have transactions with the UK group. These transactions, from a standard accountancy point of view, are sort of nonsensical. The flow of money however keeps changing and changed again in late 2016.

1. Roberts Space Industries Corporation. This continues to be the main money pig. The UK group tells America how much to pay and they pay. "Costs recharged in the year" is turnover for the UK group. As the American company settles these, a balance remains. Because of poor planning, Roberts Space Industries Corporation has actually settled more costs than the UK has recharged. The balance comes down as they adjust (Compare 2015 and 2016).

2. Cloud Imperium Games, LLC. This one is interesting. In early 2015 it relinquished the role of funding the UK group that is now undertaken by Roberts Space Industries Corporation. Now we learn in late 2016 it has gone to being dependent on the UK group for financing. "Costs recharged in the year" is turnover for the UK group. In 2015 it is a positive and in 2016 the figure is in brackets, which means it is no longer turnover for the UK group but an expense. Apparently some US expenses were actually paid by the UK group, so this figure is netted off that which is due to the American company.

3. Cloud Imperium Games Texas, LLC. This is a brand new entry for the UK in 2016 and it only has one figure. "Costs recharged in the year" is turnover for the UK group. However, this is a figure in brackets, which means it is no longer turnover for the UK group but an expense. We know this was done in late 2016 because the amounts for both CIG US companies are relatively small and remain unsettled at the year end.

Related parties - conclusion
What this means is that they have once again refactored the way the money moves around the companies. All sales continue to be made and received by the US companies and flow to Roberts Space Industries Corporation where it is funneled to the UK and distributed in the UK but now, going forward some will then flow back to the US to pay for Cloud Imperium Games(, LLC and Texas, LLC). Pointless.

Financial Risk Management
"The Company does not actively use financial instruments as part of its financial risk management." I'm not sure how this ties into the reddit hivemind and the infamous Sunday panic statement by Ortwin. It seems pretty unlikely however that the "pay day loan" was some sort of hedge against currency exchange rates.

Completely Speculative Conclusion
Steps have been taken to change the flow of money. It appears going forward (and this means since December 2016) that perhaps nearly all the income is going to be funneled to the UK from the USA. Some of this is then moved back to the US to cover expenses in Texas and LA. This would have the appearance of higher income in the UK group. We know in 2017 that CIG UK put up a lot of collateral to secure loans. It would be in their best interest if the interim management accounts provided to banking institutions showed more turnover. Also beyond just the vanity of a higher turnover figure, there's the fact that the UK is now receiving its funding before studios in LA and Texas for example. The sort of thing a lender in the UK might stipulate.

Mr.Tophat posted:

Come For The Dreams, Stay For The Autopsy

SomethingJones posted:

ManofManyAliases posted:

hot balls man no homo posted:

Every year Foundry 42 in Britan gets a tax credit for making a game with a certain amount of "Britishness" in it. Based on what they earned last year it was estimated to be around 5 million this year, payable in the fall. However! The took out a loan from Coutts bank sometime earlier this year for an advance on the tax credit they were going to receive. They just had to put up all the Squadron 42 assets as collateral in the event that they don't make it to the fall to cash in that tax credit.

Essentially they risked their whole company for a month of funding, not unlike getting an auto title loan to pay your electricity bill. It might keep the lights on but you are in pretty bad shape if you're even considering it.
They hedged brexit, because the value of that credit may have dissipated by that time.
The "hedging Brexit" excuse originated on Reddit btw and it is complete and total bollocks.

They are so reliant on the tax credit every year that they had to take out a loan 6 months before it was due in their account. Anyone with the slightest modicum of intelligence can see that. The fact that they took it out in the UK meaning we all got to see it in the accounts implies the company is up to their loving eyes in debt.

shrach posted:

This was a summary of the activity of CIG UK specifically that strips out the inter-group transactions:

Sources of funding:
£710k Long Term Loans
£290k Short Term Creditors
£200k Shareholder Investment [1]
£650k Sale of IP to USA company
£1.85m Total

£440k purchase of Foundry 42 Ltd from Erin Roberts and others [2]
£ 50k Admin Expenses
£1.36m IP purchase from USA company/Chris Roberts?
£1.85m Total

shrach posted:

Even the simplest concept like turnover isn't straight forward for the UK group. The parent company, Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd and Foundry 42 Ltd, basically have zero turnover. It gets zeroed out in the group accounts. The only company that has actual "turnover" is Roberts Space Industries International Ltd. The one with the £1 balance sheet that is really a non-trading company.

But even they are uncomfortable with this being turnover. It's a non-trading company and the accounts make different references to it. This behaviour (calling your headline turnover, "costs recharged in the period") is not in any way standard. I've never even heard of this term before in an actual accountancy setting. It's strange but another first for CIG I guess.

shrach posted:

I updated my wildly optimistic cashflow estimate for Star Citizen. The main assumptions made are the low costs for running companies in LA, Texas, and Germany compared to Manchester. Also that Subcontractors are really cheap. Yeah. I also assume that they receive $36mil this year in pledges and that refunds all time are negligible.

In this fantasy best case scenario the end of 2017 sees a cash balance of around $13mil with bank loans of $5.5mil. Obviously they could pay the loan off, but then they would have cash of $7.5mil.

It's worth thinking back to June 2017 though. At the end of June, Star Citizen would not yet have received their tax credit rebate in respect of 2016 some $4mil, also no estimated bank loan of $4mil against 2017 tax credits. Also their half year income was only $13mil compared to the yearly $36mil estimate. Expenses would have been half a year's worth. Working capital would have been tight in places. A more realistic/pessimistic estimate than mine would probably include bank loans in Germany and the United States and higher expenses in these places. It is really surreal that they still need to hit $177mil in pledges this year and this can be balanced directly with the product available at the same time, not any future product which will require ongoing funding.

TheAgent posted:

and this is from loving jan 2017 lol

TheAgent posted:


all of these are god knows how credible
  • chris roberts is transitioning away from any game or art design to focus more on company matters
  • someone close to chris (sean tracy??) will be handling all end stage design and art approvals
  • expect 3.0 features in 2018 at the minimum
  • sqlude is still scheduled for this year
  • sqlude is working off a different engine branch than 2.6/3.0 (???)
  • mocapped assets are undergoing redesigns (again)
  • some mocapped characters have changed due to rewrites, causing dialogue to be re-recorded
  • crawling/wall/fast attacking vanduul were too "problematic," will now stand and fire normally
  • AI still broken (shooting through walls, instakilling the player, animations not firing correctly, spazzing out into the great beyond on death anim)
  • netcode still broken
  • updated design docs are forthcoming and will detail some "minor" changes to scope
  • larger ships with full player crews will be hamstrung fighting against AI ships until problems are fixed
  • larger battles are still not possible (2018/2019 minimum) and SC will focus more on smaller player driven skirmishes
  • end year sales "barely put our nostrils above water"

Somebody called Cymelion a goon and he is constantly arguing on reddit about Evocatti selection being unfair.

TheLastRoboKy posted:

AbstractNapper posted:

Does cymelion throw these fits only around the major CIG public events, or is he constantly in a mental breakdown mode?

Or is a deep undercover goon malfunctioning?

Stay tuned for answers and more meltdowns as the scam unfolds.
Patience is in short supply with lots of backers and they're all starting to eat each other while getting constantly poked by people making fun of them. Every Gamescom and Citizencon they declare that Derek Smart and the trolls have been defeated and every time they don't get what was promised and everyone keeps mocking them. Cymelion is in that fun position Beer was in an age ago, where he still wants the project to succeed but he has some issues with the decisions being made and my guess is he is getting really tired of copping poo poo from both sides of the fence for it. He has to constantly clarify that he's still a believer to avoid being called Derek, and I think he might eventually get to the point where he realises he's seen how this ends and it's usually with the community holding up the digital head of the "Heretic" up on a pike for all to see. Maybe he's taken part in it before, maybe not. But no matter how rational he thinks he's being the dumb angry irrational crowd he's trying to appeal to will still string him and and then look for the next heretic because hey, they seem to keep finding them.

If that happens then the worst case scenario raises its head and I don't think he'll like it, because the worst case scenario for them is realising that the Goons were right. Which means Derek was right. About all of it.

It might be better to just walk away from the subreddit rather than deal with that, but that might be on par with getting a refund.

trucutru posted:

He's the real deal. A part of him deep inside knows that everything is hosed so lately he lashes out at the smallest provocation. Nowadays you just have to mockingly call him a friend and he goes mental (I guess this is due to some -related trauma). At the same time (IMO) he really, really, really wants to be part of Evocati and is insanely jealous of not being able to play the latest version of the game he has spend thousands on, as he's a concierge, an upstanding citizen, smart, handsome, and all that jazz.

Years ago, he used to be full of hope. But nowadays he's just a wraith-like husk of a citizen.

X-Ultron posted:

I just installed my Star Citizen SSD.

TheAgent posted:

Kosumo posted:

What the gently caress ---- $290,000 of sperg spending on internet spaceships in the last hour?


and Sad.
They always have about 2,500 to 4,000 people who buy whatever new ship they sell, no matter the price.

HycoCam posted:

For comparison:

Latin Pheonix posted:

In case people missed it due to Citcon excitement, today's Burndown summary:

- Crash/disconnect problems mentioned in Evocati confirmed, testers/devs have no idea why it's happening.
- Erin getting frustrated as to why fixes are taking so long.
- Something about networks, I honestly couldn't understand the guy's accent. Something about aiming to get the ping down so that the game reaches 30fps?
- They're still not sure what exactly the point of the evocati are ("We use them mainly for networking and performance" "don't we want them to give gameplay feedback?").
- More schedule shuffling.
- Bug with shops where the shops just don't work (no items appear), apparently they had this problem before; Erin: "Can't we just fix it like we did last time?".
- Bug with icons appearing huge.
- Airlocks stopped working, again .
- Dev: "We're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel" .

Daztek posted:

Radiant AI, BUT BETTER. posted:

Intel has teamed up with RSI for the 900P launch. When you purchase an Intel Optane 900P Series SSD you will receive a free license for Star Citizen.

Also included with the bundle is an exclusive digital Star Citizen spaceship called the "Sabre Raven".

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Oct 30, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

CitizenCon 2017
Twitch recorded video:
Managers for 6 hours -
Chris takes the stage -
It is all very boring dreams shilling.

Intel sponsors CitizenCon and Chris pushes their SSD :

peter gabriel posted:

i cant watch this poo poo it's like QVC

bandaid.friend posted:

Worth Clicking:
Disco Lando: "And this year of course we are fullfilling the CON in our CitizenCon"

peter gabriel posted:

holy poo poo twitch chat is wall to wall brutal as gently caress

thatguy posted:


bandaid.friend posted:

The audience broke into applause when they saw the character leaving footprints with a dust effect

Latin Pheonix posted:

Empire on the Move Summary

- Room was pretty much empty because everyone went to play 3.0.

First presentation:
- How to make an NPC look at the player 101. (NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE!)
- No seriously, this is being talked up like it's some breakthrough.
- He runs the basic IK side-by-side with their 'enhanced' version and the difference is negligable.

Second presentation:
- How to animate walking with fidelity.
- how to show characters walking/standing on slopes.
- Character looks like he's walking on two shattered ankles.
- Devs show how they make a character walk on uneven surfaces, stuff that any game has been able to do for several years now.
- Comment about how network-intensive a lot of the animations are.
- How to walk on planetary surfaces, for some insane reason the 'drawn' floor doesn't match up with the 'physics' floor.
- More ~dreams~, "we're not animating for a game, we're animating for a universe".

- Honestly I can't write much more about this, it was kind of interesting from a technical perspective, I'd imagine, but none of this is anything that hasn't been seen before.
- Crowd was unenthused to begin with but seemed to get more into it near the end.

MilesK posted:

Live ATV is boring. Where's Sandi and Ben to liven things up with fake banter and bad jokes?

Milky Moor posted:

i can't believe how loving boring this is

"this is how we made a dude walk around on uneven surfaces"

"this is how we render a screenshot"

Beet Wagon posted:

CIG teamed up with a lovely cellphone weather radar app to let people see moons lmao

Latin Pheonix posted:

Beyond the Cutting Edge Presentation Summary

- More seats filled this time.
- Brian still looks/sounds like a broken shell of a man.
- They showed one snapshot, then showed how each graphical effect was layered in.
- They then went on to explain how they added each individual graphical effect, one by one.
- How texturing works 101.
- Discord: "this is literally just how a video card works".
- Mipmapping! Bloom! It's like a journey into the graphics card development!
- All the graphical updates they added to 3.0 (basically the slide says what is in the schedule update).
- Very brief mention of networking updates (no details) before quickly moving on to day/night cycles.
- "Look at all the shiny effects we've added!"
- Short-term plans: literally all the stuff they mentioned in their schedule.
- They plan on using multithreading in the future.
- Long-term plans: again, basically what they say in the schedule.

Q&A highlights:
- Backers: "No question, but thank you for your work!"
- Q: "With Render To Texture, is it possible to have a second bridge?" A: "Depends what you mean by possible"
- Q: "Can you make mirrors that aren't fake?"

- This was seriously painful to watch/summarise, so I've probably missed a fair bit here.

Goredema posted:

I love that this entire Xi'an talk is about "exploring ideas", and not actual game-play.

"What do they eat?"
"What do they wear?"
"How do they sleep?"
"No one knows. This isn't final. We're just exploring ideas."

Star Citizen: Exploring Ideas

EDIT: HOLY poo poo. "We don't want them to look too tribal."

Latin Pheonix posted:

Everyday Close Encounters Presentation Summary

- Brian Chambers' shambling corpse is wheeled onstage again to introduce some people with the most made up job titles ever.
- Now we're dealing with story writing 101.
- They literally spell out Tevarin = Ronin, Vanduul = warriors, Banu = Traders, Xian = Diplomats, Humans = Jack of all trades. Incredibly deep worldcrafting there.
- Talked about individual aesthetics (Xian = verticle ships.buildings).
- Background of the alien species.
- Crowd looks totally disinterested.
- Wikipedia entry of what 'carrion' means. Again, seriously.
- A whole section dealing with Xian language. Thankfully at this point I went to make dinner.

- I had to stop 30 mins in as I had to go eat, but I don't think I missed anything unless someone wants to finish this?

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

This is too loving boring to even mock.

trucutru posted:

Chin posted:

Lazy mashup of Chinese and Japanese
That's too much effort. It's actually 90% Korean.

blueberrysmith posted:

C U in the verse commando

AutismVaccine posted:

Nice 17 fps on an empty plane

Latin Pheonix posted:

The Corporate Colonies of Stanton Presentation Summary

- Joined a bit late so I'm starting this a few minutes in.
- Moons have a 'mood' (cold, dry, etc.)- more incredible development by designers.
- How they designed the 3 moons, as if they haven't been leaning on this topic for the past 6 months.
- MORE info that, again any fool could see from a cursory glance: Yela and Cellin have mountains outwards, Daymar is valleys cut into the planet.
- How the planets were crafted.
- Space Baobab trees.
- Ooooh, look at us zoom out of a planet... Again! (Audience clapped here, despite this being a thing they've been doing for over a year now).
- Concept art!
- That is all...
- ... or is it?
- Weather app! .
- All it does is just give you a 3d view of each planet.
- Dude's crazy swole though.

- Again more of a whole load of nothing new. These are all shows that could've been ATVs.

Erenthal posted:

yeah gamescom was non-stop funny

this is the equivalent of the bataan death march in comparison

New ship intro video is 80% NPC salesman talking: (6 min video)

Beet Wagon posted:

wait wait wait did they really try to present a picture of Enceladus as their own work?

ewe2 posted:

So after almost six hours of this complete bullshit, here's some things I'm taking away:

* They sell a contradictory message. You'll explore planets alone and claim them. And at the same time, you'll have to claim land (with a BEACON) on a planet you have to share with others. Contradictory messages like these are get-outs, the citizens will only hear the positive message and ignore or discount the negative. They'll trumpet the space-to-assets zoom in on a planet and discuss how labour-intensive the work is. And then tell you there's hundreds of planets out there to explore.

* All the partnerships are marriages of convenience. A useless app for weather on imaginary planets. An over-expensive SSD from a hardware company trying to get into the SSD market is the only way you can get another imaginary ship.

* moisture farming.

* really really obvious discussions of game tech problems that have already been solved with other engines. To the point I'm actually wondering are they trying to "white room reverse-engineer" unity or unreal engines, because that's what it looks like. They would discuss these in excruciating detail in the powerpoint presentations/panels, and then discuss them AGAIN in interviews with Lando afterwards.

* mutant chinese spaceship turtles.

* Getting citizens to vote on the top 10 broadcast moments. All of which were terrible.

There's more but my brain is trying to stave off the horror long enough to make it to the WAVY HANDSES keynote address.

Latin Pheonix posted:

Pioneering the Future Presentation Summary

- Canned presentation by Not Elon Musk about the development of technology in SC's universe.
- Pioneer introduced, when seen in motion it looks like an even bigger Homeworld ship rip-off.
- Brian zombie update: still a zombie.
- Tony Zurovec makes an appearance after being stored underground for a year by CIG.
- Show is about how the planetary landing mechanics will take place.
- "This is for Orgs or a single player"
- Stats that will almost certainly change.
- Built for 4-8 players (or one player and 3-7 AI).
- Limited amount (1,000), unless cash-buys are unlimited?
- Tony Z explains how mechanics work: You can buy plots of land to build on!
- More mechanics; they might as well be arguing over what colour unicorn they want, given how far out this mechanic is.
- How they plan on having players build outposts.
- Plenty of concept art 'ideas'.
- Moisture farming!

-Can I land my dream chariot on it?

- Yeah it was all just a ship sale. I'm not going to do a summary for the keynote since most people will likely be watching it and it'll be on Youtube.

Forgot to mention moisture farming.

thatguy posted:

Intermission from the stream while they download the build.

--Chris takes the stage--

Quavers posted:

Quarterly releases, called "Beyond", where have I seen that before?

"Very BladeRunner-esque"

AlternateAccount posted:

Uhhh steam and neon and big buildings apparently = BLADE RUNNER now -_-

skaboomizzy posted:

They made the Moon city from Borderlands The Presequel

Awesome job

Boxturret posted:

he literally called it coruscant

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Why are there no other ships in this PLANET MADE OUT OF A CITY?

Sindai posted:

a corporate HQ shaped like a giant pyramid, what will they think of next

Ship jumps to hyperspace for 10+ mins

Enchanted Hat posted:

Hahaha, are you kidding? They did NOTHING on either planet!

Beet Wagon posted:

lol there's already a couple citizens smugposting about procedural cities on the refunds subreddit. Thanks for the fuel, CIG.

Dark Off posted:

ship is floating off the ground

i cant even tell if that thing is a guard or monster

oh dear me these guys have no faces

Solarin posted:

Whoever did gamescom 2016 and then the sandworm one definitely did this one too. Things have a very different feel when they have nothing to do with the janked to gently caress nightmare that is cig's actual product.

Chris seemed more than ever to be spouting complete blatant bullshit. Like saying 'it's all real' about the city and the poo poo about waves and just everything. He was in full dream selling mode and has to know his ability to harvest whale blood is gonna take a blow when people understand that 3.0 is the loving mvp and the fantasy finally comes into contact reality: the money is gone and this disastrously performing tech demo is the game

thatguy posted:

If you're new to this whole thing you might be missing out on a large portion of comedy. You see, Chris did a presentation on ArcCorp (the procedural/hand-crafted city/moon/planet from yesterday's presentation) back in 2014.
Here's what it looked like then:

Golli posted:

That to me is the worst thing about this performance art piece - particularly if actually they wanted it to ultimately be a playable MMO. Over the years I have played a few MMO's, and the prerendered demo yesterday contained all of the timesink travel problems that ultimately led to abandonment from boredom.

Walking around from point A to point B with no waypoints or objectives available and visible (particularly for a new player).

Vanilla WOW was my first MMO. Saw a video of an early Onyxia kill and decided to give it a try. Valley of Trials went OK, then when they kicked me out, I wandered blindly out of the Valley and immediately took a hard right, wound up on the other side of the river in the Barrens - and got repeatedly owned by level 13 giraffes.

After about 20 hours and many deaths, and talking to a guy at work who showed me the Onyxia video, I found out about mounts. So I toughed it out. Over the years, WOW has improved the travel experience - realizing that doing stuff at Point A or Point B is more fun to more people that getting between the two points.

Complicated mount summoning rituals -

SWTOR is a good example of this. The first time you go to your instanced hangar and get in your ship, walk around, 'talk' to your crew, travel (instantly) to your destination, then go through destination starport hangar, the starport, find a taxi stand and go to your next quest-giver was cool. The 12000th time was tedious. But at least travel between planets was fast.

Slow travel in space -

EVE is a good example of this. Even barring null, and low-sec travel, which is hard by design. It takes forever to get to someplace to (maybe) do something interesting. I did Red Frog freight hauling for a stretch, which was a fairly safe way to build up what at the time I felt was a lot of spacebux. But there was one system that took two or three minutes (maybe it was more but I don't want to exaggerate. It felt like forever) in warp to get from one gate to another - and I soon learned to pass on any contract available that included that system.

And these are all things that Chris seems to emphasize as the COOL PARTS of a potential MMO.

Hard pass. Thanks.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

One of the nice things about Star Citizen at this point is that things have pretty much calcified into their existing properties. Nobody here is magically going to be impressed and decide that, indeed, Star Citizen is good and will impress the world. Similarly nobody on the other side is going to see that and magically go "wow, they didn't show any gameplay" and decide to get a refund. People will see what they want to see, especially given how good Chris is at providing just enough rope for people to hang themselves on their own dreams. What I saw was a lot of really impressive work for a game that nobody actually paid for. I see planets that would look fantastic as flyovers during a cutscene, art assets that would be really great in localized encounters, and plenty of generic (but still nice) content. If CIG had maintained the original concept of instances linked by cutscenes, or if it was for a single player Squadron 42, then I'd be pretty impressed. But since the content they revealed has minimal impact on the expected gameplay, they steadfastly failed to show any kind of multiplayer interaction (or any real gameplay to speak of), and since Star Citizen is supposed to be a MMO and not a single player game there isn't much to be excited about.

What I saw was basically yet another indication of the things that actually matter to Chris Roberts; grandeur, scale, and derivative content. Look at how many times he talked about things that sound impressive like all those NPCs, the size of various buildings, provided a reference to a superior work of fiction like Blade Runner or Star Wars. Look at how little he talked about gameplay loops, or introduced mechanics that players have been waiting years for, or addressed core issues like networking, performance, or the flight model. Look at how a game that was meant to be a space simulation barely even touched space; indeed the only relevant discussion regarding actual space travel was how Chris apparently thinks that waiting eight minutes to travel between planets is somehow good game design. Look at how he thinks that showing hundreds of "procedurally generated" city blocks will somehow enhance the player experience, or how having millions of square kilometers of empty territory will lead to a better experience than what you can already get with Elite.

Star Citizen is not a scam, it's an ego trip. It's hundreds of people working on something, and doing what looks to be some good work doing it, to stoke the narcissism of a failed developer who is more interested in maintaining the appearances of producing a AAA title than actually delivering it. What we saw today was absolutely an indication that they are burning millions and using up a lot of personnel, and they are delivering on things. The problem is that what they're delivering has no bearing on what people are paying for.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

October Set 5!?

SCtrumpHaters posted:

So I've been a long time lurker but had to grit my teeth and pay up just to explain....well gloat on all you clowns,

Like how does it taste? The biggest event of the year where you guys were sourly clenching your fingers in anticipation of mocking something better than yourselves.

But Chris delivered. Showing Dereek Farts and you idiots what is possible in gaming.

You guys are pretty much silent, trying anything in your power to smear this accomplishment and its ugly. You have nothing solid to point at and say this is bad. Its all supposition and honestly, lies.

See you in the loving Verse friends.

Before you start typing a reply, that's probably SurfaceDetail's latest account

D_Smart posted:

So I finished reading this thread that popped up over the weekend. The OSC posts in there, are going to be a serious conundrum for those Shitizens who keep claiming that I'm him.

nopantsjack posted:

Me and the missus watched citizencon last night and it was a pretty good laugh, extremely dull but footage of SC always is.

I liked when Sandi came on at the start to be like "just so you know, we weren't late, but then we had to start later than planned", that got a good laugh from us.
also when they had to open it with a real life popup ad from intel my favourite bit was when the intel guy was like "so chris, what can this partnership do for you?" expecting a short snappy "it'll make the game better!" before he could continue his marketing speil, but croberts just rambles for like 10 straight minutes making poo poo up off the top of his head like a kid improvising an essay because Croberts knows nothing about modern tech or how the game is being made and brings everything to a screeching halt.

also it all sorta ended in them making no mans sky but with buildings and i laughed so hard when i realised they had to cut away from a 10 MINUTE ftl jump that my throat still hurts today

the whole city thing though with like millions of simulated NPCs lmao why? why would you ever do that???
it really is just talented kids making proofs of concepts of insanely impractical extravagances to scam money off of whales to fluff crobert's ego

G0RF posted:

The only thing I laughed out loud at was Chris’s string of “no other game can do this” type backpats. Big talk from a guy whose actual game still doesn’t let players land on planets nearly two years after “Pupil to Planet” and celebrated it’s 4th anniversary of not being able to add female player characters to the game back in the spring...

Beet Wagon posted:

The thing about the procedural cities deal is that yes it does look cool, but they've implemented it in a way that doesn't make the game better. You can't go walk around any of them. You can fly through them and land at your little designated landing point on the outskirts, but the ability to fly through them actually highlights the fact that they're not real - it makes the divide between "real" (places you can walk around) and "fake" way way more obvious than if they did something like making it so you couldn't free-fly in the airspace around cities, and locking you to your little landing zone. I don't think anybody at CIG realizes it yet (and I know none of the fans do) but what they've done is to take the old problem of a player looking at something on the skybox and thinking "man how come I can't go there" and magnified it a thousand times. That feeling that you get when you land in a station in Elite and wish you could go drive around in one of the little trucks is going to be nothing compared to the first time Star Citizen slaps you with how fake the city is.

Sean Tracy posted:

Not interiors in every building scattered across the EcoSystems
Hey guys,

For the sake of clarity (and my own sanity) really want to clarify something from our tools presentation in the keynote at citizen con.

Those specific tools have progressed like this.

1. Outposts (procedural assistance to make tons of them) already in 3.0.0
2. Truckstops aka: small space stations (now filling those out the same way we do outposts). Beyond 3.0.0
3. Landing Zone areas, further beyond 3.0.0

Basically yes we can create interiors very quickly and relatively easily but there is not much gained from filling ALL of the buildings in the whole planet and it'd make very little sense to do! We'd need SO many variations to avoid art fatigue (see the same casaba type outlet in every commercial center etc..)

We will absolutely fill out landing zones using tools like this but yeah but please don't expect a planet filled with buildings to be completely filled also with interiors. Hell planet earth isn't covered with buildings every square meter and even if you spent your whole life going into every single building on earth you wouldn't have enough time in your life to cover all of them!

Might we spawn a room in a building somewhere to do a mission or to meet a specific character or get a specific object...perhaps, but not every single building.

My apologies if my wording caused any confusion! I really don't want you guys to have that impression.
There is no intention at this time to fill every single building scattered across the ecosystems with interiors, some perhaps and some might even be spawned but absolutely not every single one of them!

We were all very happy with the event and can't thank you guys enough for the support and hope that you guys enjoyed it as much as we had making and showing it to you.

Fun. Times. Ahead.

-Sean "Criminal" Tracy

Mr.Tophat posted:

Sean "Criminal" Tracy eh? Think you've got the order wrong there mate.

BeefThief posted:

If chris fired everybody now and just kept pocketing all the money himself he could probably make it to citizencon of next year before the backers would ever know

no_recall posted:

WTF is up with the Pioneer commercial? Why so lo-fi? They show off mocap poo poo again?

Honestly that was brutally boring. I can't imagine not being able to skip during ShitCon.

POI's in Elite are already a pain in the rear end to navigate. How the hell are these "pioneer stations" going to show up on navigation? I was part of a team that went barnacle hunting and we had to use our eyes and fly between 6KM and 30KM above the planet to look for these POI's before FD did anything about them, does SC have some sort of auto navigation / POI system available? If there are 300 of these things on a said system how would it look like? Would you HUD be dotted (pun intended) with all these pioneer outposts for you to trade in? How would you know what faction / alignment they're from? What would you find when you land or how would you know what they're selling / buying / trading / whatever?

This game is stuff of dreams.

Buy a Pioneer Today!

reddit posted:

: How long will it take for people to realize that CIG demos are just concepts and have nothing to do with what's actually completed and working?
: Adorable, the CitCon 2017 demo is exactly what their builds are capable of and working using in-game assets. In essence, their concepts made virtually "real". Did you think that was a Maya rendered cutscene? And, as a non-backer, your uninformed POV on SC and SQ42 don't actually matter.
: About as real as the sand worm or their other countless demos. And it's not like your opinion matters either, so not sure what that was about.

Ghostlight posted:

Hello, I'm back.

I watched the 1 hour trimmed stream of Nothing But The Steak that CIG put up on Twitch, and here are my thoughts:

1. the 'game' as presented looks nice. The city looks great, and there's a good number of NPCs wandering about or standing on chairs as dictated by their incredible AI that for some reason the further out the 'player' gets from the centre of the station the more it seems to choose just standing in one place occupying space almost as if all of the animations are hand-crafted and they ran out of time.
2. Honestly, the city looks great when he's on foot. Especially helpful is that the stamina system is disabled within it so you can sprint from one end to the other without having a heart attack. It's single-player RPG-level quality in terms of visuals.
3. Their interaction system is still poo poo and unintuitive where you have to know what's interactable before you can focus on it to get interactions. This is seriously awful and I have no idea how people haven't made a fuss about having to 'look' at some random button on your spaceship to get an Engine On option that also allows you to turn the Engine Off when it already is.
4. Flying slowly around buildings making it painfully obvious there is no code to handle collisions with them.
5. Surface of the planet looks nice.
6. Time to travel for EIGHT loving MINUTES!?!? Who the gently caress designed this, and Chris says it will actually take EVEN LONGER to get to a quest destination in the real game. Lmao, and they make fun of Elite for not having content.

7. Break time for tools discussion. This where poo poo gets real.
8. The planet-spanning city is procedurally generated because otherwise it would be completely impossible to physically do - however, the tool they present is painfully labour-intensive in terms of putting down height maps and dictating zones and stuff. Why would you need this tool if it's procedural? You wouldn't, it would be a list of rules about how buildings clump and how landing zones are spaced and what they contain. They demonstrate 'reseeding' a neighbourhood outside of whatever Blade Runner City is called - why are the neighbourhoods generated on a different seed? The whole planet should be one seed that dictates everything. They are 'procedurally' populating the planet with manually created content. That is buttfucking insane, and explains why previous planets were obviously copy-and-paste tiles. Visually it's more excusable when it's man-made objects that could be standardised like buildings, but the previous crater repetition makes it obvious this is how they're doing their generation.
9. They don't mention how the interior tool is connected to the building assets at all, so I'm entirely convinced it can create impossible spaces. They have probably worked around this by giving it a smaller footprint than any of their possible buildings, or making buildings just massive squares at the street level. It's nothing amazing, but watching it manually place pipe assets and poo poo during generation is insane. Again, hugely manual labour intensive despite being sold as a time saver it is just a basic level editor with automated decoration placement.
10. I forget the other tool they showed but it had the same issues of not actually saving any labour costs above having basic tools for designing a game. Certainly not on the level that you need to generate planet-wide amounts of content.

11. Talking about placing more landing zones and populating them. The whole planet is uninteractable window-dressing outside of these landing zones, so no talk about how they're going to restrict people to the zones they have manually created to interact with. No reason to go to other zones because all of them will have the same basic content just shuffled a little more.

12. Wow we're on another planet that's largely the same as all the other planets we've seen down to using the same smoggy smokestacks we just saw on Coruscan't. Apparently this is a planet where there's no federal oversight so there's some wildlife here that drifts around and eats garbage. I have named them Citizens.

cool new Polack jokes posted:

I can’t do this anymore

gently caress these people

They even archered the goddamn box in another pic

Dark Off posted:

cr explaining about realistic simulation of gravity. and how its "weaker" 25km up
Worth Clicking:

Combat Theory posted:

Thoatse posted:

Wait what are you really going [to CitizenCon]?
Yes and I indeed just returned from my trip there.

After catching up with the thread again I see some of the pictures I took did entertain the thread quite a bit

I'm sorry I can't update too much on my personal con of the citizens experience (which was fabulous) here without doxxing myself hardcore. I will say however that I disagree with beers assessment that cig calmed the woes of the citizens enough to keep it up for the foreseeable future, after watching the reactions of the people there. "where the gently caress is the gameplay" has been tossed around like a greeting sentence.

The only female I saw was a hooker

E: I wasn't the only goon there by the way

Sunswipe posted:

Spiderdrake posted:

Combat Theory posted:

The only female I saw was a hooker
Seriously did someone tip her off to the fact she could make thousands selling jpegs of her space ships and promising to blow their minds later
Cloud Imperium Brothels: We're working on the most amazing blowjob ever! Just $500, delivery SOON.
*3 years later*
Buyer: Uh, I bought the blowjob three years ago. Now I've been sent a jpeg of a dog's testicle. WTF?
CIB: One of our whores changed it during development and they've since left the company. No refunds!

Tippis posted:

AP posted:

Can somebody link me to the time in the stream when this happened? (The media player bit) roughly 39 minutes in — look for the WMP controls at the bottom of the stream feed.
Now, as much as I agree that it wouldn't make sense to show that live, there's still the point that 1) don't show the media controls during a presentation, and 2) citizens will point to that demo and dribble “see, it's all in the game already”.

XK posted:

AP posted:
Tweet Summary
GPU: GeForce GTX 980 Ti
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X
Resolution: 1920x1080
The loading screen and menu have great FPS.

Toops posted:

Very good article by Polygon. Plenty of facts with a nicely obfuscated skepticism:

Star Citizen’s fan convention introduced a planet-sized city right out of Blade Runner: “This is pretty much Coruscant”


"The surface of Arc Corporation, while interesting, isn’t intended for players to interact with in-game. In the future, Roberts said, Arc Corporation may include more than one location where players can land their ships and engage with vendors and quest givers in a fixed, social hub with other players. But, for now, the goal is to design an interesting landscape and nothing more.

The demo included no combat, no quests and no traditional, linear narrative of any kind. It was effectively a demonstration of environmental storytelling."


"The 3.0 version of the project’s PU is currently in an advanced testing stage, and is expected to be in the hands of backers imminently, though no release date has been given.

After the 3.0 update, Roberts said his team would be focusing on “date-driven, not feature or content-driven” updates in order to give the community a “more regular experience.” Neither the Squadron 42 single-player game nor the Star Citizen PU have a release date of any kind."

Mr Fronts posted:

No, I reckon most "potential" backers who worked in the financial systems industry heard Roberts' idiotic initial project plan, sized it up as bullshit right away, and steered clear. I mean, that sales pitch. Multiple teams/contractors developing modules in parallel, then slotting them together to make an integrated product? Sure, there are established ways to do that - it's a pretty commonplace project approach, after all.

But they hosed it up right at the start. Star Citizen was easy to classify as doomed/hosed/development-hell/comedy-fail/textbook-how-not-to-do-it. CIG broke the most basic rule, right from the get-go...

- Write a detailed functional spec for each module, and for the interactions between each module.

- Let any team start coding their module until the functional specs are done.

CIG didn't go away into squirrel mode, into back rooms, planning their poo poo, nailing down their project. They didn't speak once on the boring but vital work being done, hammering together boring docs. No, they were OFF AND RUNNING, developing! So exciting! So marketable! So impossible to build into one cohesive product without proper advance planning!

Note: We're talking 2012/2013 here. At the time, CIG's end product pretty much involved a pilot-focused spaceflight module, a "landing zone FPS" module and a "boarding FPS" module". It was abundantly clear then that those modules wouldn't come together if they were going to be cowboys about doing it seat-of-the-pants.

True to form, they went off the rails, making the spaceflight module suddenly involving non-pilot focused gameplay - passenger, flight attendant, crew member doing turrets, repairs. Huge spec change, on-the-fly.

Even back then, it wasn't like CIG was trying to get a 100% free-walk spaceflight environment seamlessly integrated with atmospheric reentry, planetary landings, exploring on foot and in wheeled/hovering vehicles, orbital mechanics and day/night cycles.

How much poo poo has this company written and then discarded, all because they had (have) no development documentation discipline?

trucutru posted:

ManofManyAliases posted:

Comparatively, communication still remains more open and public than pretty much any other title I've seen - and I'm glad of it.
Thank you about not gloating (lol, how could you?) but you must be making GBS threads us with that sentence, right? Like, do a direct comparison between citcon and, dunno, every other loving video game conference? Compare it directly to the Frontier one. The dates announced, the detailed development charts, the explanation behind design decisions, the showcase of gameplay? That's also open and public, but more importantly informative in a way that SC's vague promises are not.

SC may be very open and public, but it's open and public in the same way an encrypted message posted on a forum is. Everybody can read the gibberish but no info can be extracted from it.

Danknificent posted:

i've been following since 2015, lot of people saying time will tell about various things

major spoiler time has told

it's the end of 2017, there's no game and no reason to expect a game anytime soon

there's no argument to be had here

it's not a game that's overdue at this point; forget the years of shenanigans and just looking at the 3.0 timeline - you have, not a game, but a slice of a pre-alpha literally a year overdue on top of six billion other delays

this is it; this is all the evidence anyone should need. if the restaurant can't even do the chips and salsa right how the gently caress they gonna bring you the best drat fajitas ever?

you spend several years waiting for the chips and salsa you know drat well you ain't getting those fajitas no matter how much you paid for them

PederP posted:

Running game servers for a non-turn based game on cloud services designed for web services and sites is not feasible. Especially not for an MMO or a shooter/space sim. While getting the servers hosted and (physically) maintained by a third party is a great idea, you do not want them running in someone else's infrastructure. You want full control down of the servers and the network infrastructure.

Game servers in the cloud are a cost-cutting measure, with a significant impact on stability and performance. It is not an advantage.

The cloud is still struggling to be viable for many enterprise-level business systems. Various cloud vendors are trying hard to get their foot into the financial industry, and fighting for every inch. MMO servers are more complicated to develop and maintain than anything in the financial industry. Amazon may be able to provide a solution for lumberyard match-based games with straightforward requirements - but I am beyond skeptical they can provide anything useful for an MMO. The notion that they would be able provide something which is better than a bespoke, self-managed solution is ludicrous.

Using Amazon will *add* complexity to the already herculean task it is to keep an MMO running. The ability to "spin up servers as needed" is vastly overrated, and plain websites regularly struggle to scale properly in the cloud. You can't "spin up" your way out of the bottlenecks which are typically the issue when player activity peaks and stuff starts breaking - there are always subsystems which can't simple scale by adding more instances on more hardware. It's cutting costs at the expense of a worse product and a lovely time for the engineers. So it will be popular, and it will make games bad.

trucutru posted:

Amazon is trying to get into the game development business so they are definitely going to offer servers that work well with their lumberyard engine. Of course, for most games, the virtual machines do not have to talk to each other as each one only cares about their own game instances. The clusterfuck arising from having multiple interdependent servers running on virtual machines, handling a MMO with FPS requirements (of all things) is gonna be, as the good doctor would say, glorious.

thatguy posted:

All of these silly "bandwidth" and "speed" questions will be solved with Telepathy 2.0 so maybe you guys just need to wait and see.

EmesiS posted:

ManofManyAliases posted:

Yeah. AWS servers are comprised of 10 u chassis, 16 blades per chassis (4 in a rack), total of 64 blades per rack. At 1 server a blade, that's essentially 64 servers per rack, give or take how they are managing their virtual machines.

XK posted:

I'm sad I wasn't here for MoMA's AWS posting, because those are some really good posts to make fun of somebody for fundamentally misunderstanding how a technology works.

How many units of rack space does AWS give me when it spins up servers? Wooo

D_Smart posted:

ManofManyAliases posted:

How much bandwidth per client do you suppose is actually necessary if we're talking about refined serialized variables that now only transmit the deltas for each client instead of whole models like in the past (40-60 mb per ship down to less than 4-5mb)? Or, with zoning that was described as only exhibiting the physics, models, variables, etc for a particular zone in a particular instance as the client travels through? Are you saying that Amazon compute is incapable or that the requirements are so outlandish that it's not possible?
That's a load of bollocks. And as I'm on mobile, I don't have time to write up a 1000 character word salad to educate on it.

This is the thing with you guys. You read poo poo from CIG, either don't understand it, or use their bullshit explanation for it. Then go utter it with the most proud proclamation.

D_Smart posted:

monkeytek posted:

Agreed, I don't see AWS as a viable option for this sort of a deployment. Taking into account that this will be one of the most resource intense MMO's to ever be released I can't see it being operable on anything less that a specifically architected hardware solution. There are a very small number of hosting companies that can bring this to fruition and the costs are going to be huge for start up and maintenance of this game.

With the design costs for this game as large as they must be there is no room for the hardware solution.
Correct. And that's where they screwed up. All they had to do was implement private servers and matchmaking, right off the bat. They could have made available to backers the same console server they are running. With that, backers could run and host their own loving servers without ANY costs to CIG.

Then, like what ED did, they could use AWS for transaction, database, and master server (for the matchmaking) stuff on the backend.

But had they done that, they won't be selling an MMO. They'd be selling a session based game with a cap of about 32 clients. And then all those JPEGs they've been selling under the guise of building an MMO, would never have been sold. And they probably would never gotten past $65M. Let alone to $163M.

They made their bed. And they're going to get kicked out of it because croberts is a loving, incompetent moron.

TheAgent posted:

they are going through $50m a year, easy

like a single studio in the UK is burning through half that in a year and its documented and online and you can view that poo poo with your own eyeballs

trucutru posted:

Four years ago, backers knew (well, they thought they knew) the release date of SQ42, the overall scope of SC, and had a general idea of the gameplay involving professions.

Today, after thousands of days of development, they don't know anything for sure about those points, besides the fact that the game will be the best ever and has the most open development.

Virtual Captain posted:

JLee is a concept artist or something for CIG and is understandably obsessed with every tree in the forest. 55m35s
JLee: 'Wait what did you say Chris?'
Chris: "[ArcCorp] was a small level and everything outside of it was, sort of uh, y-know kind-of, distan- it was basically faked"
JLee: "Yes, this is true." 1h3m25s
Chris: 'We might not let players fly this close'
JLee: 'I understand why Chris would say this, we might not want players to get too close to the population. I would rather not lock players into certain areas, maybe security drones stop you if you fly too close or blow you up. I dunno how we're going to do it. I think we're kind torn with making that decision.' 1h11m
JLee: 'Are we going to get 500v500 player battles with good fps? I'm not on netcode. The theory breakdown is to have massive battles. Currently, we do not have that. We wanna have players on different instances but still see each other. I dunno how it works.' 1h34m50s
JLee: 'Let me show you. See these screens? An artist has to come in an fill in what shows on those screens. So we can't just generate an entire level.' 1h36m50s
JLee: 'Will stock and stores will be automatically filled with economy system as well as the type of items will be sold in each area? Ummm.. Uhh.. That's more of a Tony Z question. From what I know, it won't be automatic.'

XK posted:

I had children to be my spaceship crew, but the game's been delayed so long they've all gone off to college. My main turret gunner finished packing up all his belongings, mocked my Consolidated Outland Pioneer to my face, then said, "gently caress you dad.", before driving away.

Anyone want to join my org?

VictorianQueerLit posted:

This is Star Citizen. Literally anything you can imagine will be possible. Lifetimes worth of gameplay for anyone doing anything they could want.

Want to mine procedural asteroids like a 4k minecraft? Want to fly on the frontlines against the VAHNDOOHL? Want to haul rocks other people mine? Want to run a space refinery intricately breaking down every rock into it's constituent components? Want to be a space news anchor always traveling to the newest story? Want to be a space cruise liner employee mixing drinks? Want to be a space farmer or space particle Want to do space search and rescue? Want to haul physical information around?

The first thing you do is ignore how actual games work and what is actually possible and then everything is possible.

None of these things will just be a shallow minigame mechanic where you just hit a button, and will instead be lifetimes worth of gameplay. You are stupid for not building a sim pit. By the time you realize "Space News Van" comes with such intricate and in-depth mechanics that you start building your own sim pit to live your new life in the Verse this guy will be on his 3rd or 4th revision and be living comfortably in his new life where he is finally happy and doesn't have to worry about bills or responsibility gently caress YOU MOM I PAY RENT IT'S MY ROOM I CAN BUILD WHAT I WANT I'M A SPACE STEWARDESS

D_Smart posted:

fritzgryphon posted:

Dark Off posted:

check out the scale of that ship. Everything is scaled down

Took a moment to realize that the other spaceship passes between the camera and the smoke trail effect.

The Aurora is 8m wide so the ship would have to be less than a meter wide. This might also be a draw order problem, because the small ship -seems- to be further away than that?
The ship passing between the cam and effect is draw order problem.

The ship in the foreground being large in comparison to the one passing underneath is due to the view frustum camera zoom on the foreground ship.

The ships appear to be at scale.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Dementropy posted:

Oh yeah Chris totally refuted that like years ago haha wow I cant believe goons are so behind the times welp anyways I dont have a source so dont even bother trying to argue against me have you seen the new ATV pretty cool huh alright time to go byeeeeee

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 1

tooterfish posted:

VictorianQueerLit posted:

I think the best part of the Star Citizen Scam finally collapsing is that a large number of nerds will stop psychotically obsessing over Elite Dangerous being THE ENEMY and instead maybe shut up and enjoy the game that delivers on many of Chris Roberts promises.

I'm sure there will always be people that refuse to play it because it dared to exist opposite of Star Citizen and ten years from now at any mention of Elite Dangerous they will scoff and go into a rage filled tirade about "Polygon Tacos" or whatever but I think that will be a small minority.

ED might see a nice boost once thousands of people stop saving themselves for space marriage.

I dunno I'm optimistic at heart so it would be nice to see all the millions of dollars and thousands of players go toward an actual company with a proven product they continue to develop instead of a stammering idiot with a modded Crysis map promising the literal matrix to fools.
It's the fanboy paradox.

They need Elite to exist so they can gloat at how much better Star Citizen is. But the fact that Elite is objectively the better one at the moment (by virtue of being real) is currently driving them loving insane. I can't imagine what they'd be like once you took the possibility of Star Citizen ever existing away from them, because that's basically their only lifeline to sanity.

alf_pogs posted:

it is loving hilarious that someone was chucking out god drat hard drives at a conference like the world's dorkiest ever hype man

Mirificus posted:

Tweet Summary:
Clifford aka Miku buys two of the new $800+ JPEGs because he is sane and normal.

Latin Pheonix posted:

Pledges, please.

Abuminable posted:

AP posted:
Video Summary:
WTFo's friend camps out in good wifi to buy latest JPEG by melting ships and misses most of the Citcon keynote
This is loltastic. Panic swapping of jpegs for other jpegs since jpegs are limited and the latest jpeg incarnation fulfills all sperg dreams in a singular jpeg. The Pioneer is the jpegularity.

AbstractNapper posted:

AP posted:
Video Summary:
WTFo's guest explains how water was 5€ at Citcon (but you get 1€ back if you return the cup)
Amazing. Only the best treatment for their devoted supporters.

Truga posted:

The funny thing about 8 minutes is, I'm a proponent of long travel times in online open world games, it's good for the non-combat part of economy play (trading with places far away from main hubs gets profitable since it takes a tiny bit of effort so most won't bother), but obviously star citizen did it all wrong.

On how to do this poo poo right, look at Freelancer. It's a bad game on many levels, but anywhere on your journey, you're hitting content. You see police patrols ganking you for cardamine, you see pirates interrupting the trade lane and scanning you for valuables, you see patrols fighting pirates, avoiding space rocks in space fog nebula, there's constantly *something* happening around your ship.

On the other hand, in star citizen it's just 8 minutes of loving nothing. There's not even awesome nebula scenery or anything, it's just nothing.

Dark Off posted:

relay is starting to turn into somekind of absurd art.

talks about things coming next year sighs and starts talking about how citcon was best stream ever.

talks about tech shown being impossible. Then starts talking how CIG showed that its possible

"it doesnt matter what reality is . it matters what it looks like" its amazing quote taken out of context and it fits star citizen like a glove.

showing actual gameplay is bad

Goobs posted:

Rad Russian posted:

Goobs posted:

Adult men crying over a non-existent video game.
I'm not sure what community they're talking about? All I've seen are fanboys arguing with fanboys about what's going to be in their imaginary game and talking non-stop about Derek Smart. Is there some niche, non-toxic sector of the SC community that I'm missing?

30 Things I Hate About Your Game Pitch -

fritzgryphon posted:

Topical GDC vid

"We did final art for all our spaceships... ended up throwing it all away."

SCtrumpHaters posted:

The biggest one I noticed that CIG is often guilty of is "dont use real world limitations to excuse bad game design". Especially because they are so arbitrary about it. Like one second its all gravity goo and the next its 'well each thruster needs to impart force thats why it flys like poo poo nothing to be done"

9:20 "If someone comes in pitching 1000 person firefights then alarm bells go off"

Although the presenter does show a shocking lack of game dev knowledge "Don't prototype your character opening doors. Thats easy stuff any team can do. I want to see the things that are unique and interesting that define your game"

hot balls man no homo posted:

22 and 23 as well. Don't go thinking you're going to have the success of WoW. Don't be a complete pain in the rear end to work with. Don't go trashing other publishers, don't jam in the latest fad (VR), know your scope and budget. Wow, this guy knows about game design.

This is really a proclick for anyone who knows anything about Star Citizen.

Virtual Captain posted:

#9 - You Never Mentioned Your Glaring Obvious Tech Risk (8:55)
"A lot of times if you see a lot of pitches and if you've been working them on the publisher side a lot you kind of know what's feasible and what's not and you know what things are hard to do and what things are easy to do and if somebody comes in and says yeah we want to do a thousand person multiplayer game with real-time firefights then alarm bells go off and it's fine to do something that's really technologically ambitious it's fun to do something that's really dangerous and hard but if you say something like that that sounds dangerous and hard and then you don't explain how you're going to pull that off then that really makes people nervous."

#13 - You Polished Too Early (12:20)
"Part of the reason this image is in here this is from a game I worked on where we did like final art for all the ships before we had our combat modeled down and all the stuff got thrown out and so if a game is really really visually polished but the mechanics are still really broken in prototype that also is an alarm bell because it suggests that the team is not putting all the effort where where it should be and it also suggests that a lot of work is going to be redone. So again if you want to showcase what you're capable of in the art department that's great but make sure that it doesn't overshadow the fact that your your game in the prototype phase may still be really really incomplete. A few still images of show with your art team is capable of is much better than a prototype that is broken in a variety of ways but what that looks amazing because the person you pitching to knows that's all gonna have to be thrown out when the game actually gets nailed down so make sure that work in progress actually looks like work in progress."

no_recall posted:

TLDR : If CR pitched the game to an actual publisher, it would fail on all counts.

That's so good for star citizen.

Citizen posted:

None of this applies to CIG because they are their own publisher. @3000ad_games can't give their games away, that's why it's Indie.

Sunswipe posted:

It is amazing to consider this when a Citizen mentions how far the game has come. Five years, $160 million, a company that has spread across the globe like a disease and all they have to show for it are videos that (at least to this layman's eye) look much the same as the original pitch videos. Where the gently caress has that money gone? Ok, Porsches, cocaine and playing at movie making. Stupid question. I hope this whole thing does end up in court, because I'd love to see Roberts desperately trying to explain how the 2017 videos are massive advancements from the 2012 pitch videos, and totally took up all that money.

Beet Wagon posted:

AP posted:
Tweet Summary:
Exclusive ship sold with Intel SSD doesn't come with LTI, BoredGamerUK petitioning Ben on twitter to add LTI.
drat, they didn't even bother to give the Intel shill-ships LTI? That's some weak poo poo, CIG. People are shelling out $500 for a variant of a ship that originally cost something like $200 and you can't be hosed to give them LTI?

CIG's gone so far into the ship-selling rabbithole that they can't even remember their own rules.

Golli posted:

Dear Newegg:

Please issue an RMA for my Intel OPTANE.

Reason: No LTI on imaginary ship.

Thank You-

BoredGamer, Angry SSD User

Golli posted:

Groundbreaking tech

Chris has made the world's first quantum game!

It exists in two simultaneous states until it is interacted with by the user. The game is both Alpha and Released Already.

Observer notes it is a buggy piece of crap: "It is Alpha. Send more money."
Observer notes it is a buggy piece of crap and they want a refund: "It is released. No refunds."

fritzgryphon posted:

How can they describe these bugs with a completely straight face? Either the coders are super good actors, or they are actually pizza delivery boys that were invited to stay.

"To see if the player has his cursor over an item in the store, we raycast the cursor against all the colliders in the entire universe. This causes a bug where the display case glass blocks the ray and the player can't select the item."

1. You would just raycast the items near the player, not the universe. You're not shooting a bullet.

2. You don't want any level geometry to obstruct the item, anyway. It would make it hard to select an item that is partially obstructed.

3. Why not use a faster and easier selection system? The player has to painstakingly put the cursor right on the item's collider (which will be annoying if the object is small). You could literally just check if the cursor is within X pixels of the item on the screen, X changing with distance and item size. If the test intersects more than 1 item, use the nearer one, or the one that you clicked closer to it's center. User friendly and 1/100th the processing time.

4. Transparent objects would need to be on a separate collision layer anyway for when you code NPC vision AI, among other things. Collider layers isn't an unexpected crisis.

Toops posted:

The first time I ever designed a system for picking up items, I had a problem. I couldn't pick up items if there was something in front of it. The raycast would hit the something first. Then I did a quick google search, read about object/collider layers, then I read about raycast filtering. I went back to my editor, set all items to the "item" layer, set the raycast so it could only hit objects that were members of the "item" layer. Problem solved in ~10 minutes. I have a terrible memory, and I remember it, so.

Am I supposed to believe CIG, a $160m company with world class game developers don't know how to do this? I don't. I'm not a uniquely bright individual, and I figured it out.

Possible options:
1. Somebody just forgot to set environment object layers properly
2. The item 2.0 "use" raycast wasn't set to filter properly
3. It's a fake bug they invented just for the ATV segment
4. It's incredibly hard to do raycast filtering in CryEngine

Personally, I would be embarrassed sharing this as a "hot take" bug fix. It's either a silly oversight, or reveals shocking ignorance on the part of the CIG devs.

Chris Roberts posted:

I still don’t know what LTI is and I don’t care to know.

Omniblivion posted:

I don't know if this has been linked already, but.... what the actual gently caress
Video Summary: 23 min video of Klingon level detailing of Space Lizard language.
Thousands of dollars worth of man hours went into making this stupid rear end video on how to pronounce this made up language in a jpeg simulator

thatguy posted:

That's a video on a multi-million dollar space game's Youtube channel with thousands of views.

trucutru posted:

Ahahahahaha, this is so loving low-effort (and ching-chong racist). It only looks well-done when you have no idea of how this stuff works. (Like everything else in this doomed projec).

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

Tokamak posted:

The schedule report has a new format where they list 'bugs' and 'tasks' for each of the six remaining focus areas.

57 bugs and 254 tasks until PTU

Keep in mind that all of the performance/stability issues are technically tasks, not bugs, and shopping went from 17 to 20 bugs overnight. CIG is dangling a new carrot in front of the backers, and have revealed how much information they have been holding back over the last couple of months. Keep in mind that they often add almost as many bugs as they solve, and that figure could easily end up being 200 bugs and 1000 tasks.
I really wish the "de-bamboozle" guy was still around to explain this.

SCtrumpHaters posted:

So let me start off by saying there is no bigger fan of SC than me. I am literally all in financially, emotionally and spiritually. This game is going to be the best game ever and quite honestly the one true game. That being said I have a slight concern and wonder if I am just being silly. The previous burn downs showed far less bugs/tasks than what we have now. If you sum the current list we are at 291 tasks/bugs. This is drastically higher than before. Like I said I'm not bitching, whining or anything of that nature and I believe in star citizen to the point that I think I might be a zealot.
What do you guys think about the task/bug numbers growing so drastically?

Mr. Carlisle posted:

lol why would you tweet this

Whatever intern she's got running her twitter is so good at their job

D_Smart posted:

[Citizens] together with CIG, they've created a situation that keeps SEO specialists awake at night. Not that the best VP of marketing since she was a leetle gurl knows wtf she's doing anyway. So there's that.

Someone sent me that image earlier, along with this:


The Google algorithm has associated you with the knowledge graph and is now generating your profiles in relation to searches for the brand.

Honestly, in the "SEO" sorcery space... that means OWNED and would cause a crisis for brand rep. THAT is why Sandy angers me. Don't call yourself a VP when failing at basics with no formal study or true industry experience: BEHOLD THE IMAGE.

What you've done is every SEO "brand reputation manager's" dream.

The #1 request is: Something negative about me shows up on page 1. Realistically, given way algorithm works and signals it detects, hard for 95% of brands to fix it
too long to explain even though I spam you, and like NDA issues, but many brands are internal messes that prevent corrective action.

The thing is, it is often a link to an article A LINK TO AN ARTICLE. Not an individual showing up with his loving mug shot on page one for a knowledge graph search on google.

Some of the client work I am dealing with now? They would have a heart attack if someone, an individual let's say a product critic with a well researched arsenal of content on his website showed up under their profile in the right hand bar as "also searched for".

Not only your name shows up for also searched for, beautiful google algorithm quirks and flaws picked up your profile pic. This is a neutral, no history, opt out of all ads, doesn't browse view tool I use for keywords to see visibility for terms when not influenced by a logged in gmail account nor cookies from google apps and api bs


That would cause a loving crisis.

If Sandi, was a true VP of marketing, she would be all over it... the funny bit is, because "link building" is still a thing, the most "authoritative" alternate source regarding SC is you in the google algorithm's mind currently (sans some manual manipulation internally at Google)

So to fix their search situation, they would literally need to work with you as long as you keep your domain and site active.

New consumers searching for "roberts space industries" or "star citizen" will see your profile unless they take serious corrective action to protect the brand on search. Sandi isn't doing that. A "marketing manager" or director could do what that VP is not.

trucutru posted:

D_Smart posted:

Evocati 3.0. Landing sucesfl

Mining is in!

reddit posted:

As much as I think Derek Smart and his 'goons' are absolute twats, I can't help but feel increasingly hopeless about the project. I think we just keep making excuses for them because we want it so badly to be real. But, I mean, if you had told somebody last year that we'd be reasonably speculating February 2018 for a slightly scaled back version of 3.0, you'd be called a hater.
I still desperately want to have faith in the project, but I can't help but feel like in February 2018, due to unforeseen circumstances, we'll be speculating April 2018 for the awaited content drop.

SomethingJones posted:

Good news everyone, CIG have just started advertising for a backend server MMO programmer to work on their exciting PC space combat sim, Star Citizen!

• Online game and/or MMO development experience, ideally including interfacing with backend server code.

• One or more shipped products, especially PC products.
• CryEngine/Lumberyard development experience.
• Space combat sim development experience. e - (they need someone who has done this before to do stuff that's never been done before)
• Passion for science fiction and space exploration

This exciting new role takes the number of published vacancies to 64, the highest it's been since March 2016.

D_Smart posted:

I think I am pretty close to this. Though I have zero LumberYard experience, I am very familiar with CryEngine though.

I haven't had a resume since Carter was POTUS, but I wonder if I should put one together and send it in to see how long I can troll them for.

TheAgent posted:

friend: hey dude, I'm looking for a job is CIG any good? they've been headhunting like crazy lately

me: hold on a sec, I gotta post this in a giant thread dedicated to how hosed up that entire company is

friend: what

AP posted:
Video Summary: The Captain's Table admits CitizenCon was a snoozefest on the level of 1 hour presentation of Spectrum last year.

Sabreseven posted:

Felt like doing a thing before we go out for fireworks, so I did a thing:

Art shamelessly archered from a Viz comic

Erenthal posted:

Toops posted:

Oh and Destiny 2 is a nothingburger piece of poo poo too, and you can purchase everything in Assassin's Creed with real money.

Gaming is hosed.
thank god roberts is here to finally save pc gaming

thank god

SomethingJones posted:

Supercruise was the DDF's (Frontier's sperg army) sole contribution to the game and is the dullest part of the game. In fact it's the dullest part of any game ever. In terms of gameplay it's the equivilent of 1984 Elite with the 'J' key jump drive disabled so you'd have to sit and watch the loving thing in real time which is what you do in ED. Sit. And. Watch. It. In. Real. Time.

Star Citizen has taken one of those types of spergs and have them design an entire game.

Solarin posted:

Daztek posted:

3.0 is good
stimpire muscle torture fetish is IN

his nibs posted:

at least the doors are working

Citizen posted:

Diduknow #StarCitizen: Pioneer license will claim a ground from approximately 4x4km up to 8x8km. It's a Skyrim map size, estimated at 6x6km.

TheAgent posted:

just remember, some people have been in crunch mode for almost two full years now

the other ones, like some peeps that I know, straight up walked out after 3 to 6 months of that poo poo, mostly because there was no end in sight, no goal to reach to end the crunch and no rewards or incentives for your sacrifice

now you've got 26 year olds leading entire teams with no prior game or managerial experience, working constantly because they have no idea its a bad thing. they take their cues straight from roberts on how to manage your employees: "do what I say, exactly how I say, or quit"

the tales that you're going to hear next year are going to loving astound some people. I'm sure the die hardest backers, whose money will have paid for expensive trips for executives, producing terrible indie films, and weathly as gently caress lifestyles, will simply never believe a goddamn bad thing about the savior of pc gaming chris roberts

TheAgent posted:

at what point do you mention to the backers that you're financing film careers? that you're starting to broadcast yourself as a digital effects company, with access to superior motion capture and CGI technologies? don't you think someone on this great big internet is going to loving find out about it?

I mean, I guess you can hope that the game comes out to rousing success before then, and of course, of course! hollywood and special effects are a perfect fit for chris roberts, so its no big deal he's spending a lot of time and resources and backer money doing hollywood things

but goddamn chris, y'all playing with loving fire

like hey, here's a bad thing: we are running out of money to develop a game

and yeah, we've taken out a few loans and are really, really hoping no one looks too closely at this whole UK tax credit thing and yeah, yeah we are down almost 30% in revenue from last year so far

but also! intel paid for our last two shows, amazon floated us some monies and we're only a wee bit behind

but hey, here's a good thing: we got a loving major cash injection from a movie production company to do their digital effects! the company is saved

also I need all the art teams focused on the movie stuff because we have a four month deadline for our portion of the vfx, but this is also okay because we need six months or so to get our programmers to finish our engine

Beet Wagon posted:

lol, game's been in dev long enough that peoples' commemorative merch is falling apart. (Yes, I know it's a lovely Chinese product that was probably falling apart the day he got it, but drat if that isn't Star Citizen in a nutshell)

Toops posted:

Honestly, I'm fuckin' proud of you, Chris. You aimed for the stars, missed horribly, and landed in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Let this be a lesson to you all. Got an idea? Just loving do it. Find a way. Make it work. Always do, even if you're a complete gently caress up. The universe loves action, it needs juice, and as long as you just show up and try, you win. Get off the loving internet. Stop watching the loving TV. Don't play video games, they're all just poo poo designed to keep you off the playing field. And NEVER let that nagging fuckster in the back of your mind tell you you're gonna fail.

Chris Roberts wins at life. He laughs all the way to the mobile banking app on his phone to check his auto-regenerating bank account balance. Scummy? Oh what the gently caress ever. He played by the written rules and that's all that matters. Bad person? I don't know him, but he pays for his wife's movie dreams and gives all his friends jobs, and that's a hell of a lot more than most of us. Immoral? Didn't know you were runing the books on that one. And I'll tell you what. It's immoral to let people as stupid as Star Citizens, with their loving cringecore stunted bullshit fantasies, keep their money. Who the gently caress would wanna make a game for that lot of losers anyway?

gently caress em. gently caress you. And gently caress me.

Chris Roberts is a genius, and he deserves to enjoy his Porches, because god dammit, at least he got up off his rear end and tried.

RubberJohnny posted:

As we approach a year without an update, and CIG managing 0 out of 5 of the updates they promised would arrive this year (3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.0, SQ42 release), take a look at the communities reaction to the Gamescom 2016 schedule


i think it'll pick up steam into this next year.
the major ground works is finishing up or done and Foundry 42 in the UK will be finishing up with SQ42 content production which means their largest studio can roll over and start making content for the PU.


If I have learned anything having watched all the CIG events since Citizencon 2014 I have learned that none of their roadmaps ever amount to much. I think the one thing we can reasonably expect is that 3.0 will be close to what they have said it will be and that 4.0 will be the first patch to introduce another system.
Specifically I don't expect them to introduce the new mechanics and large ships anywhere near as quickly as they desire. I wouldn't doubt that they could get 4.0 out around early to mid 2018 though.


Personally I doubt they will let it languish for 6 months without an update, I think 2-4 months between updates is a bit more realistic. Though I highly doubt they will stick anywhere near that roadmap.

Matoi Ryuko posted:

When I was a child, I played the Warcraft 2: Tides of Darkness demo. My computer wasn't powerful enough to run it, so what I saw was a scrambled video, instead of the normal game, but I could still play the game through sound and the occasional tiny window through the scrambling. When I finally got the game to work, it suddenly wasn't as interesting. It was easy now. What had changed was that the game no longer required me to engage my imagination, and that's what they're selling at CiG, a chance to engage your imagination.

They've monetized your imagination, as a business model.

big nipples big life posted:

How about a summary

AP posted:

#More mo-cap

alphabettitouretti posted:

$164m well spent. 3.0 is surely just days away from release.

crobber ya game all hosed up. Although if your goal was to make a sequel to octodad, good job I guess.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 2

alphabettitouretti posted:


I worked at Cloud Imperium Games full-time (More than 3 years)

* However this project and business turn out I'm happy I got to work on this once in a lifetime project that has really pushed boundaries in many areas of software development, games development, networking, and computer science.
* Despite a lot of my ex-colleagues being younger, newer in the industry and sometimes inexperienced / naïve, they really worked incredibly hard and with huge amounts of enthusiasm, sometimes to the detriment of their own wellbeing and personal lives.
* The offices and infrastructure are great with absolutely no expense spared in allowing us to get our jobs done.
* Despite some of my criticisms below I would definitely do it all over again but I would also get out earlier.

* A lot of the management have little to no idea what they are doing, use software development methodologies from the last century and are frankly out of their depth. This causes an exponentially increasing spiral of delays that a modern experienced project manager would see coming from a mile away and know how to deal with. The project is getting ever further away from completion despite what public statements to the contrary say. These managers may have been the best of the best back in their day, but it is no longer that day and people rarely have consistent hits their entire career.
* This issue is compounded by the fact that CIG pays below industry average salaries, because they correctly think many people will want the prestige of having worked on such an exciting project to be on their CV, however you also don't get the best talent this way.
* Both the salary and management issues have caused a lot of more experienced staff who were really making the most progress to leave. A lot of the people left are fairly wet behind the ears and need a lot more mentoring before stepping up to the plate. I spent over half my time mentoring other members of staff even in areas I only have a vague passing knowledge of.
* Collectively we ended up grinding harder and harder, losing increasingly more of our lives, over smaller and smaller irrelevant things that the CEO dreamed up. This has been getting worse recently not better, especially with recent technologies added to the game that should have been implemented at the end, not now.

Advice to Management
Hire experienced executives and professional project managers with current decade skills and qualifications - Not family members, friends or old contacts.

Keep on doing what you're doing.

G0RF posted:

Ouch — this one goes for the tender underbelly and kicks the tenders after. It will surely be claimed as fakery, but as with the Jennison letter, it reads as authentic, holistically informed and bitterly resigned.

One of the great remaining myths that zealots and whales cling to is that Chris, Erin, Tony and the other graybeards are wizards trained in the secret sorcery of ancient forgotten gaming magic. Their willingness to believe this is profound because decades back, the younger versions of these men delivered a nifty game here and there. Or at least had their name on one. And zealots played them at a highly impressionable age. Yet that magic they remember so fondly now was not crafted by Roberts or his cronies — the magic they recall was Youth.

The notion that Chris & Co., rather than being Jedi masters of gaming, are in fact out-of-their-depth relics, hopelessly out of step with the times and simply incapable of comprehending let alone dominating 2017-era AAA gaming — it’s simply unthinkable to the zealot core.

The evidence is everywhere:

—The Zeno’s paradox of infinite subdivisions of distance to 3.0...
—“Welcome to BURNDOWN, our weekly look at our progress in eliminating blockers and bugs keeping us from release of the first fraction of our first of 100 star systems in the first person universe we’re claiming we can build...”
—A space sim that still hasn’t delivered a satisfying flight model after half a decade of futzing around with it...
—“I just want to sell the narrative...”
—The fact that their unironically admitting, in year five, that they’re closing in on their first complete game loop...
—“Legacy armor” (in a pre-Alpha!)
—“You can fit the whole of Skyrim in that crater right there...”
—Face Over IP
—and so on...

The entire project is now a NeoTokyo of bright blinking warning signs yet Chris is himself is so completely and hopelessly deluded — convinced not just of his adequacy (lol) but his supremacy — and his acolytes and enablers derive their misplaced confidence in him from him. It’s from this desperate collusive delusion that for many emerges a similar dread fear of irrelevancy. Star Citizen, while never overtly pitched as such, is their shared escape route from this fear into a utopia of relevancy, power and decisive personal agency — as the ample novellas of therycrafting so often attest. And for Chris, too, the game is meant as such, a statement to the compromised studios and evil publishers that “I’m still here and my game is BETTER than your game because I’m STILL a great Game Developer!”

How strange that only 5 or 6 years ago, a husband and wife had what surely sounds like a kick-to-curb warning, during which she told him, “If this doesn’t work out, I’m sure someone will hire you.”

Good thing it worked out. For both of them. For awhile anyway. But the downward spiral is well underway and everyone who can’t see it clearly senses it anyway. And the bitterest lesson of all is that Chris Roberts was given the greatest opportunity in the history of gaming — a gargantuan budget and limitless freedom — and with that freedom he destroyed the gift and left only the grim and slim hope that some salvageable mediocrity might somehow be recovered from the wreckage. We’ll see how that works out.

Citizen posted:

Citizen posted:

I think this goes without saying, but there is a point where something turns from helping fund a game and simply pre-purchasing in game benefits. Constantly monetizing seemingly every new ship coming out feels more and more like buying trading cards for a TCG and sitting around realizing there isn't a way to get the full experience out of it because the final released game is still a ways away.
CIG wins as soon as they release the game. We lose if they cut features or performance to get it out the door quicker. Let's hope they can keep delaying the win till the game is ready.

D_Smart posted:

3.0 is a paradox for them. If they release is inside of the next 4-5 months, they're completely hosed (even more). If they don't release it, they're royally hosed.

God I hope they release it for Christmas.

Burndown Summary posted:

here's a TLDR version of burndown this week on progress towards PTU release

Bugs: 20 -> 30 (+50%)

Bugs: 11 -> 22 (+100%)
Tasks: 76 -> 91 (+20%)

Bugs: 6 -> 6 (0%)
Tasks: 31 -> 47 (+52%)

Bugs: 2 -> 2 (0%)
Tasks: 22 -> 18 (-18%)

Bugs: 18 -> 18 (0%)
Tasks: 42 -> 48 (+14%)

Performance stability
Tasks: 63 -> 57 (-9%)

TheLastRoboKy posted:

peter gabriel posted:

Hand got stuck in there, they're still trying to get it out and it's just wobbling and slapping all over the place and everything is going everywhere send help.

Slow_Moe posted:

Fostering elitism is the backbone of CIG's funding. The elitist are willing to pay huge sums to be elite in game, and as such, CIG caters exclusively to them. Which, when the game launches (stop laughing) will heavily dis incentivize regular players from joining up. And then all the whales, with their paid for advantages, will square off against each-other. But since there is no regular players for them to lord over, they will feel grief instead of superiority.

It's gonna be yuge.

Natron posted:

When I was watching the dreadful panel on base building or whatever at citizen con, I honestly thought they were gearing up to sell plots of land on planets.

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they did, but they'd have to make a planet first, I guess. Or not, citizens will buy it regardless, let's face it.

Breetai posted:

I know that by admitting this I'm announcing a loss as I'm letting myself get caremad about stupid nerd culture bullshit, but there's a particular type of pop culture nerd who just loooves the idea of mashing up multiple geek IPs together and will breathlessly gush about "WOULDN'T IT BE SO COOL IF HARRY POTTER COULD BE IN THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE AND ALSO THE XENOMORPH FROM ALIENS WAS THERE?!?", and it really annoys me. The thought process appears to be 'I like X and I like Y, therefore if X and Y were together it would be EVEN MORE awesome".

But all it really does is betray a shallow-to-nonexistent understanding of what makes their preferred movie/book/whatever good. It shows a paucity of knowledge with regards to the concept of tone or theme in fictional works. Which is fine when you're 10 and the reason you like Starship Troopers is you get to watch the Good Guys shoot the bugs, but when you're a grown adult and you don't understand that Captain Kirk beaming down to King's Landing is going to be poo poo, it's a problem. And it's an even bigger problem when you're directing a multimillion dollar video game.

So yeah: put in a sandworm because you like sandworms because they're big and scary. And put in the planet from pitch black. And put in a Blade Runner cityscape. And put in Space Rome and Space China and service means citizenship. Surely your messianic horror cyberpunk space opera with social commentary won't be a jumbled mess.

Or at least in this case it won't because Roberts is adding them in with no regard to their thematic content nor to the context that they were originally displayed in. It's a sizzle reel approach where he's including things without understanding them because he thinks they're cool.

Sci-fi video game creator Chris Roberts doesn't understand the first loving thing about sci-fi, and neither does his audience.

The Titanic posted:

According to Amazon themselves, the network system they’ve built is not designed for a persistent MMO environment. At least not currently.

So yet again, right out of the box, Chris Roberts is just saying “but yuh huh! You just didn’t try hard enough!” directly to the company that actually built the network system.

So chances are high that when CIG moved to Lumberyard, they just brought their same arena type networking and had to fix it to run on an AWS cloud, and probably gave up shortly after they realized they lacked skill to do more.

Unfortunately for a lot of groups new to AWS and cloud computing, they think they can sacrifice smart coding practices and intelligent network design by increasing the processing power and throughput of their server, and sometimes up to a point this actually works; but it kills them in the long run because their growth was tied to how fast they can make a cluster, and there is a cap. Once people reach that cap, reality hits them in the face like a freight train.

I’m not a game developer though, but I’ve developed cloud architecture and this method of thinking persists a lot unfortunately. I have no reason to believe CR doesn’t think he can fix everything by throwing more computer power at it from the cloud.

Preen Dog posted:

This guy is legit amazing. He filled 9 full minutes, emphatic and believable, bragging about how they spent man-weeks (and writing a separate exe for testing) tuning the acceleration curve of the hyperspacing ships. Literally, how fast do we want to lerp to the jump destination and what particle effects should play for different speeds. The guy fully understands that this is an inexcusable waste of time while critical features and bugs are ignored, but he still manages to come across as a visionary code-philosopher doing God's work.

And the painstakingly made notes, a-la Se7en. It's beautiful.

D_Smart posted:

DapperDon posted:

As a quick question to you and others here that DO KNOW this stuff. Does Amazon's Lumber Yard do well with networking? In other words, is it Lumberyard being choked by CIG's Frankenengine or is it an incompatibility with it?
Nobody knows, since there are currently NO RELEASED GAMES that use LumberYard. The engine, as a whole, is all very experimental - and still in Beta.

What I do know is that the CryEngine networking layer was always rubbish; and isn't something that they were actively interesting in improving because most of the games the engine targeted, with simple 16-player games, with lobbies. Forget about loving MMOs.

And in the latest LY build, they even deprecated the entire CryEngine network layer in favor of their own. Which makes sense, since AWS is network-centric and they would have top tier network engineers there.

The LumberYard engine was never designed for MMO games. At all. Even AMZ states this clearly in their docs and faqs about what the engine is designed to do, and the limitations/strengths of the networking component.

Whoever wants to use LY for MMO games, is i) one dumb sumbitch ii) an incompetent moron

There was also indication that they were either using, or planning to use this experimental bullshit called yojimbo which they were Golden backers of. If they did end up using it, loving because it explains everything.

If they are now testing 60 client sessions, it's not because they magically came up with new networking tech (note that it's not listed anywhere in the dev schedule) at the spur of the moment. It's because they have realized that the AWS instances (these are the different tiers) they were usingvfor severs, are simply incapable of handling the additional poo poo that 3.0 is now throwing at it. Unfortunately for them, moving to higher tier AWS instances is not only going to cost them money, but it's also NOT going to solve the networking/connectivity problem. It's just going to solve the server's ability to just gently caress off and die at some point. And it was doing just that - CONSISTENTLY - in the tests they just had.

Using the cloud to build a MMORPG <-- This is theoretical and shows you what's possible, not that it's possible for a real-time game, with high fidelity visuals etc

Building a World in the Clouds: MMO Architecture on AWS (MBL304) | AWS <-- This is how Firefall did it. Multiplayer was pure poo poo. And the game died. As did the company. <--- This is how Frontier did it. And they don't even try to do anything more than 32 clients within a "bubble/island"

They're completely and utterly hosed; and Star Citizen will never - ever - be an MMO. Backers should just pray that they are one day able to play with 32 of their friends in a session. loving if they all have multi-crew ships.

Scruffpuff posted:

The primary issue holding Star Citizen back, in my mind, is not related to technology per se.

You can write a 900-page blog about how it's impossible or extraordinarily difficult. (Note to self: somebody might have already written one, I have to look into that.)

We can watch their horrific development practices and constant missteps all day and show that each one, by itself, stops Star Citizen from coming out, much less considering all the mistakes in aggregate.

But none of that matters. The primary issue that keeps Star Citizen from releasing is that their monetization scheme runs in 100% opposition to releasing a game, or even fixing what they have.

Many things need to be gutted to the core and either reworked or rebuilt from the ground up, but that can't happen because it must be 3.0, then 3.1, etc. The backers must continue to see numbers go up, and iterations of the current build continuing apace, or the funding is threatened.

The entire flight model needs reworking, before the finalized pretty models are put in, but that can't happen, because the finished models are what they're selling - not the game.

They're selling finalized game assets and the illusion of progress, and that decision doomed the game. Any course correction at this point threatens to sink the incoming funds, and then it's truly over.

That is the true E.L.E. - the point of no return they reached at some point in the last couple years when they had the chance to go back and do it right, and chose instead to forge ahead with a broken system. Now that the funding and the development efforts are fully opposed, it's only a matter of time before they collide.

TheLastRoboKy posted:

Hopefully someone still has the screenshot cause this was a fair while ago, back around those heady days before even the persistent universe kicked in. Anyway a guy who wanted to do podcasts and stuff about Star Citizen and other space games cracked a joke in a previous incarnation of this thread (I think about people killing themselves over Star Citizen), and not too long afterwards Sandi emailed him a screencap of his post, and then as an aside demanded to know if he had in fact been complaining that CIG wouldn't give him the time of day for interviews for his show. It was such a ham-handed attempt at trying to scare him it kind of beggared belief but really was the first major highlight for us that people were watching this thread, feeding this information back to at the very least Sandi, and that they thought that they could try to silence dissent with the implied threat of freezing people out. Freezing people out of what I'm not sure since nothing's loving come out.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

Another weird thing was that at one of the conventions they gave Sandi a fake award that was like a golden computer or something that was for "putting up with poo poo on the internet."

As far as I know she never had any online presence in the Star Citizen community at all so what poo poo was she putting up with exactly?

- Your example of her personally responding to posts from this thread
- People being banned on RSI for posting here
- After we criticized giving Ben donuts she awkwardly came out and placed a huge bag of donuts in the center of the frame while looking at the camera
- After we made fun of her looking high as gently caress with huge glasses and stuffing her face during shows later she just weirdly stared into the camera and started eating while smirking

I think she's probably narcissistic enough to have been reading this thread personally. Which is funny because it means that we have had more direct influence on Star Citizen than any of the whales have had while paying 0$.

D_Smart posted:

Also, I remember that time when, having been accused of lying about her credentials, she did this:

The Titanic posted:

I’m only surprised that people are still surprised today when they realize they are getting censored. Censorship has always been a major part of the CIG campaign, and also a huge pillar for its detractors.

CIG has been removing posts to “concern” or deleting them since maybe about a year into the project. The major selling point for their whole Spectrum stuff was to help them censor posts better. If they didn’t like something, they prevent new posts, and then it magically disappears out of view.

If any of the upset users are reading this, this isn’t a new thing. CIG very much does specifically go out of their way to ensure they control the narrative of what potential new and existing backers can read. This is because their business plan doesn’t involve actually releasing a product.

Go ahead and ask CIG how they plan to maintain an international company after they release a buy-once non-subscription model game to consumers. You’ll get no answers from CIG, but about a million different responses from sycophants. Probably almost as many answers as you would if you asked about even basic gameplay mechanics.

There is a reason for that, but you’ll need to put 2 and 2 together on your own, and not think it’s some stupid “goon conspiracy”. It’s all CIG, all the way down to the rotten core.

Thoatse posted:

There wasn't always heavy censorship, at least not obvious stuff at first. IIRC it wasn't until sometime between the LTI Uprisings and when Arena Commando released and the great Flight Model Wars began. At first they just katamari'd posts they didn't like from a really wide range of barely related poo poo, making those subjects too hard to meaningfully follow (especially without being able to tell where posts/threads originated once spliced in) with their fast and loose qualifiers. It was well contained from normal sight since most folks avoided the forum mosh pits since it was still a hopeful time and circlejerking still didn't require erection enhancements for a lot of the og's, but eventually the waters of discontent started overflowing the levees of the toxic waste pits they were consigned to.

That's when they came up with the 'concern' forum, a special walled garden gulag to hide unsightly posts and naughty hints of disbelief or talk of accountability in a dungeon far from public view and even obscured from wide eyed inductees. Moderation became increasingly heavy handed as dreams continued to collide with reality, a patch a time back when they still did that and at some point they needed even more control to maintain the narrative. CIG had long since recognized r/starcitizen was where the whales really hung out anyhow, so they capitalized on the existing arrangement once the katamari's and Concern forum and brownshirting was no longer enough to staunch the flow coming from the cracks.

Enter, Spectrum. They made a site that's basically their own little North Korea that makes it easy to keep up appearances and disappear anyone/anything unbefitting of dear leader's visionTM but also made such a lovely mess of the forum for users that there was a critical mass herd migration to reddit. There they can generally maintain the narrative between sycophant brigades, retards on reddit, sunk cost grey marketers and good ole astroturfing etc, though outside the hugbubble of r/sc they often get drown in the bathtub of facts by non cultists that recognize the situation is laughably abnormal 6 years/160mil into this fever dream.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

Banks don't sell you products for putting your money into your account. This goes down to the very definition of transactions and commerce and this argument is so transparent you might as well type "Well I'm going to just make up whatever I have to do post positively about Star Citizen."

If CIG doesn't want people returning thousands of dollars of products they haven't received yet they should either stop selling so many products they aren't making or actually loving make them.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

The logical conclusion that with millions of dollars on the line they straight up lied about the state of their product is just ridiculous. (Company) wouldn't misrepresent (Product) for money! They love me!

VictorianQueerLit posted:

My theory is this:

Once 2017 hit Squadron 42 isn't being talked about much anymore. Work probably progressed on it or The Prelude until early this year and at some point the idea had to have been abandoned. I tend to think that all the leaks about how ridiculous the animation data was were correct. Especially when you consider the slides putting this at 10x the speaking roles of actual studio releases of animated films. Chris Roberts had wanted to make a movie and had generated 90% footage and 10% gameplay with most of his budget and the footage was largely worthless due to the work required to turn tens of millions of dollars of motion capture data into anything resembling a game with a narrative that he could sell for $60.

I think they have shifted along this path

- Planning to develop both games simultaneously with 4 studios
(time passes)
- Already past their release date with tens of millions in Squadron 42, complete focus on finish it (Maintenance Mode PU)
(time passes)
- Unable to deal with the hilarious clusterfuck Chris Roberts filmed, scope is reduced and a smaller step will be taken toward Squadron 42, further forgetting the PU (Prelude, A year without patches)
(time passes)
- Development of anything to do with petabytes of mocap footage becomes so expensive that the forgotten PU is now front and center to make money (Fake Demos late 2016)
(a lot of time passes)
- Once the main 2017 sales start getting closer CIG starts producing more fake demos but is now apparently struggling to develop something that actually resembles them. (3.0) Work has obviously just started on it sometime recently but they are running with it 100% and are no longer talking about Squadron 42. Due to almost bankrupting the company on Squadron 42 for years their last resort is a broken tech demo they had largely been ignoring. It's all they have and that leads us to now where they are frantically trying to cram more features into an ancient engine they should have never used in the first place.

It's a shame that we have to speculate so much about what is actually happening at THE WORLD'S MOST OPEN GAME DEVELOPMENT STUDIO. I'm pretty confident about that chain of events and if I was as crazy as Derek i would probably look up all the supporting tweets and information for each step but I don't care enough to spend an eternity digging through endless amounts of bullshit to highlight my points.

D_Smart posted:


So I wrote The Road To 3.0 article that the recent 48-60 client test was just a ruse and propaganda which just happens to start 2 weeks before the anniversary sales.

Like always it served no purpose other than to start propaganda ahead of the upcoming sale, as well as perhaps their testing of new (possibly .x.large) AWS tiers which they think is going to provide better experience and performance. (it’s not)

The main issue here is that they know the server can’t handle more than 10 clients in any reasonable (think combat, traversal etc) form, and that the server is still completely unstable. So, ask yourself why they’re doing these sort of client tests now, when they should be fixing bugs, getting the build complete, getting the game to run at least 16 clients – solid – before reaching for the insurmountable. It makes no sense. But it does make sense when you consider all the similar bullshit they’ve pulled these past years.

This was 48 player maxed out server. The physical core counts range from 4 to 20 cores.
- 11-13 average fps – with no combat
- 17-25 during server start and shortly after in a ship and just flying around – no combat

Yes, a 20 core Xeon @ 3.7Ghz can’t even handle 12 fps on average. And not even an overclocked 7700K @ 5Ghz could maintain 25 fps.
Remember, RSI/CIG keeps all this under wraps, is actively using DMCA takedowns on YouTube, Vimeo, etc to suppress this Evocati test information from getting out. For a game that’s supposedly “open development” and which backers have reportedly given $164 million to develop. As funding continues to decline (currently down -40%) drastically year on year, it’s clear to see that they are coming up with new tricks. But ignore us though, keep giving them money and wait for what comes next.


In addition to the total of 16 corporations involved in this venture, a few days ago on 11/08/17, they created another one. This time a foreign entity called “Cloud Imperium LLC”. It’s not even complete yet, but you can go to and search for “Imperium” to pull it up. So that’s 17 in total now that we know of.

==Mini r/ds meltdown==
Brief setup: 'jester86 is the mod of the Totally Normal Derek Smart Testicle Obsession Subreddit and also the Ethically Questionable Grey Market Nerd-Fleecing Subreddit.'

Beet Wagon posted:

lmao, Jester using an alt account to advertise black market services on the refunds subreddit. Now I've seen it all.

Exhibit A: this post by one Ivan_SC advertising black market poo poo on /refunds

Exhibit B: Jester responding to comments in that thread with comments clearly written as "Ivan" lol. These comments don't exist because as soon as he realized the issue he deleted them, but since he's flagged for manual comment approval they're still in the modmail. Whoops!

Beet Wagon posted:

It's a common issue if you use their app - it'll show you PMs and comment replies for all your accounts regardless of which one you're currently signed in as. It also lets you respond to them, and doesn't show you which account you're logged in as until after lol. Reddit is poo poo.

Solarin posted:

Dementropy posted:

Star citizen is some kind of loving scam fractal

reddit posted:

Beet posted:

Dude come on. It's okay to have an alt account. In fact it makes sense with the way CIG deals with black market trades - you'd want to protect your grey market account of course. You and I both know what comments you made and deleted on this account.
I'm only frustrated because as a moderator you should know better than to advertise on someone else's subreddit without asking.

jester86 posted:

Nah I was pretty vocal about my ceasing trading a few years ago, enough was enough and there's no money left in it. Ivan and I are org mates though.

OldSchoolCmdr posted:

You're a liar (which is no surprise) and you have finally been caught Red handed again. I have first hand experience with your lies and duplicitous nature.
This is why as the mod of a hate sub engaged in targeted harassment of a guy writing about the project, you have every reason and incentive to encourage attacks and defamation against him. Because you benefit financially from it.

jester86 posted:

Holy gently caress that was quick! I knew it! Ahahahah I knew it. But no, I'm not him. My org knows us as separate people, we used to deal a store together, I used him to sell off my ships when I wanted out, that's the extent of it. Sorry to crush your dreams. But hell go write a blog anyway.

Morningwoodpecker posted:

So when jester was handing out bans and deleting posts from anyone who said he had a financial motive for running r/ds, not only were they absolutely right but he was deliberately and dishonestly abusing his mod powers to conceal it from the nerds he was stealing from and encouraging to attack the warlord.

Scams within scams.

jester86 posted:

Discussing the archive's future

So for a long time we've discussed (internally) on what the end goal and exit strategy for this archive is. It's purpose is to discuss Derek's gripes, groans and opinions, however that comes at a cost - namely, our sanity. It's not sustainable given the amount of moderation this community needs lately.

after trying various crowd control techniques over the past 2 years the only real option left, in my opinion, is switching to read only.

Originally we had discussed doing this when 3.0 was released as the public build. Unfortunately that's taking a lot longer (re: months, years) than we'd hoped and now that the Christmas season is upon us we're faced with the issue of holidays and the extra traffic (and potential increase in Derek's posting habits) it brings. I won't be here for most of December so I know this place will probably go to poo poo without me keeping an eye on it. Trying to keep it afloat during my honeymoon was very difficult and not something I want to attempt doing again on my next holiday.

Tokamak posted:

With 3.0 entering evocati, it is only a matter of weeks not months until Derek is proven wrong once and for all. Instead of hanging around to enjoy the moment and watch Derek meltdown like Chernobyl, I'm going to shut up shop because... I'm busy all of a sudden.
Forever un-bamboozled,

Virtual Captain posted:

Clear some space in the trophy room:

BoredDellTechnician posted:

/r/DerekSmart has never been a democracy. There will be no public vote as to the future of the subreddit. At this point the moderation staff is severely fatigued and is suffering repeated personal attacks, which is completely unacceptable.
As of next week, /r/DerekSmart will transition to read only and ultimately will be sent to private access at an undetermined future date.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 3

==wrap up the r/ds meltdown real quick==

BluesShaman posted:

"We're not owned! We're not owned!" the posters of r/ds shrieked as often and as loudly as possible before the enveloping silence...

Ghostlight posted:

"This doesn't mean you won!" I sneer with my face pressed to the ground by Alexander's sandal and illuminated by fires in Persepolis.

Beet Wagon posted:

It's one of my favorite parts of this whole thing. The whole bottom half of the meta thread over there is people crying about "how come /refunds isn't going read-only?"

Uhhhh.... cause we actually discuss refunds there instead of writing murder fanfiction about a stranger.

Dementropy posted:

reddit posted:

Oh, look! There's Derek claiming victory thinking he got us closed down!
Hey Derek! You didn't get us closed down! We left you!

==Ok back to Star Citizen==

Jobbo_Fett posted:



*Buys a fake vending machine for his fake hangor filled with fake ships WHERE NOTHING loving WORKS*

Viktor posted:

Interesting post from a software developer I do respect:

GitLab Blog posted:

Refactoring is that word that a new, super-green developer mentions on day one when they suggest to rewrite everything in Angular. That hasn't happened at GitLab. Our frontend devs tend to be very conservative, which is a very good thing. Which begs the question, why does it seems like everyone is always refactoring? What are they trying to achieve? I can only speak for GitLab. What do we want to achieve with a refactor? In reality it's going to cost a lot of money.

The costs are:
Cost of doing the refactoring.
Cost of testing the change.
Cost of updating tests and documentation.

You also have more risk:
Risk of introducing bugs.
Risk of taking on a huge task that you can't finish.
Risk of not achieving the quality/improvements you intended.

The Titanic posted:

The soul of the project has transformed from passion into deceit. Here’s my general take on the transformation:

My opinion on this is that one of the big drama bombs was Sandi, because she actually believed she was literally the smartest person in the room at all times. There are others as well, but she was a Star because of her attitude.

This ultimately lead to her direct confrontation with Beer4TheBeerGod in a CS case, which ultimately resulted in her looking like a fool.

When all this happened, she pulled out of Twitter, pulled out of customer service, and basically pulled out of everything not related to being on camera or hobnobbing with movie stars.

I firmly believe that up to this point, Star Citizen was very personal to her. She was personally invested in its success because she was making tons of money from it, and up to now had fought tooth and nail to make it what it was. During her come to Beer moment though, she realized being made a fool publicly wasn’t worth it anymore, and she had more than enough money to just do what she wanted to do (be an actress), so has since vanished onto the cutting room floor of indie Hollywood movies. She no longer cares about the game because she already is a millionaire.

So why then is there less drama now than there was before? Well, simply put it’s no longer personal for the head people who couldn’t be trusted with themselves. They’ve made their money, and can just keep “doing what they do” and ignore the people bashing it.

They know Star Citizen is not going to become the game promised. So why defend it to the death like it will? No need. Just keep pimping, keep lying, and keep the narrative mostly positive like it’s real and they’ll keep making money until they want to stop the money train.

When this was a Roberts passion project there was plenty of fun to be had. But since it’s transformed into a very blatant cash grab, the passion is gone, the soul is black, and because of that there is really no excitement going on outside of laughing at the latest video of lies. It’s a soulless project now, and it shows on every level.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Xaerael posted:

So, here's the interesting thing about Lesnick's "joke website". Recently, my local MP was suspended for being a moron and saying poor taste things in his younger years.

CIG essentially promoted Ben after his, far worse, collection of thoughts were exposed.
Boy, those 1400+ screenshots of a Philadelphia News Reporter sure isn't creepy or stalker'ish behavior. That sort of creepy attitude is only a thing goons would do! NO, there's no double standard in labelling all goons as criminals when Ben Lesnick clearly is a racist gently caress and therefore that would mean all Star Citizens are racist fucks.

Now let me get back to jacking off to this reporter, I can almost smell the cheese steaks...

XK posted:

Not only was Ben in his mid 20s when he did a lot of the things on his website, he literally tried to blame attempting to be a cool kid like the people on SomethingAwful for his behavior, yet the site had equally representative behavior which predated the existence of SomethingAwful.

Also, if I remember correctly, he had publicly linked his website 6 months before any Goon found it. It was only when he publicly linked its existence a second time that somebody here found it.

We were literally digging for it so hard, he had to broadcast its existence twice before we saw it.

AP posted:

When Chris Roberts asked for $500,000 during the kickstarter he got $2,134,374, but that was great because he could make the game and it would be amazing.
In fact, if you add what they raised on their own website during the kickstarter period they raised $6.2 million. Then Chris Roberts said he was going to do without investors and could make the game for $14-20 million.
Reaching $20 million there was much joy, though costs and postage means they really need 23 million.
$23 million was duly raised.
The cheering was great at Games Com when Chris walked on stage to tell them they'd just broken $50 million.
According to the RSI website, they are currently on over $164 million, not counting several years worth of subscriptions.

Anyone mad about a few dozen people refunding, even if the amounts are sometimes in the thousands, is actually really worried $164 million isn't enough.

G0RF posted:

In far less provocative news, there’s a new CIG Interview at Glassdoor.


Interview Questions
”Describe this pen to me.”
So he/she failed to adequately describe a pen during a pear-to-pear interview. Next time he/she will nail it, though.

AP posted:

The nib is hand formed in 18-carat gold, contains military grade ink. The barrel is carved from Banu aromatic sandalwood. The pen is presented in a number limited edition wooden case, come with a brochure for the lucky purchaser or recipient. The discerning purchaser can also have the pen emblazoned with a custom phrase in Latin, a tidy $2,000 price tag.

Dementropy posted:

reddit posted:

We're receiving some updates that CSR's are now locking ships (they have a grey outline and are unmeltable) related to the scam alert posted yesterday. If you've bought anything recently you should check this is not the case for you. If it is, begin screenshotting Reddit communications, RSI details, invoice details etc. to supplement your Paypal dispute incase accounts are deleted.

Dusty Lens posted:

I believe it's saying that customer service reps are locking ships to accounts and preventing them from being turned into store credit or gifted to another account.

What that has to do with ship sales is beyond me. While I know that the process is pretty streamlined at this case I can't imagine that funds are being transferred beyond the hands of a middleman without some assurance that the ship itself can be moved.

That's why you use a middleman.

CIG loved shipsales back in the day as it presented not only a kind of safety valve for people contemplating dropping real cash (oh boy I can just flip it for a profit later) but really provided a sense of confidence in giving someone insane amounts of money amounted to some kind of investment that could be withdrawn from. For a long while now they've been making increasingly obvious movements towards viewing that collective pool of store credit as toxic and counter productive to bringing in new cash. So maybe they're adding additional obstacles to people being able to melt ships for credit?

Either way it's good news for Star Citizen.

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

1. You buy $100 worth of jpegs
2. You trade a $50 jpeg to someone else's account in exchange for their $30 jpeg
3. You request a refund
4. They investigate, say "you're only entitled to $50 of refunds"
5. You accept, they close your account, the $30 jpeg you traded for isn't yours to refund and just disappears into the ether

peter gabriel posted:

From top to bottom every single aspect of this project is hosed

SomethingJones posted:
Vacanies at 67, highest since March 2016

Senior Gameplay Engineer
November 13, 2017

Strong multi-threaded programming skills.
Experience with multiplayer programming

• Online game and/or MMO development experience, ideally including interfacing with backend server code

Senior Systems Designer

November 10, 2017

Design and develop new features for the Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe, working closely with the Lead Designer and the Game Director to ensure Chris Roberts’ vision for Star Citizen becomes reality.
Be the “go to” person for the implementation of complex systems that stretch the capabilities of the engine and challenge the expectations of the players.
Be a leader within the department for cleanly implementing content with our designer tools and scripting languages.
Develop prototypes that clearly articulate the vision of the features for which you are responsible.
Pitch concepts, designs and full-proposals to project leads.
Partner with cross-disciplinary teams to execute game systems.
Use expert data analysis skills plot how the game is being used. Draw conclusions and make recommendations for how to improve the experience.
Identify and resolve conflicts with other disciplines in a way that best meets the design goals of the project.
Review work at various stages of implementation to ensure the execution matches the vision, goals and quality requirements.
Routinely collect feedback from user-testing, the development team and design management.
Identify solutions to the problems expressed that won’t negatively impact other systems or mechanics.
Create and refine gameplay mechanics.
Contribute to Tools and workflow development, highlighting bottlenecks or suggesting areas where tools could improve workflow.

5+ years of professional experience in game development – in a System/Tech Designer capacity
Shipped (from pre-production to release) 2+, large scale, 3D titles (PC, current/next-gen consoles)
Knowledge and experience with a C style programming or scripting language.
Must have knowledge in writing script to handle gameplay systems such as weapon balancing, navigation mechanics, basic AI behavior, and scripted sequences.
Positive, solution-orientated individual with a passion for game development.
Experience with next generation AAA game engines.
High degree of self-motivation and initiative.
Inherent ability to bring out the best in people around you, remains positive, and motivate your team.
Expert in time management, verbal and written communication skills.
Ability to gather, analyze, and act on feedback from the team, openness to critique.
Passion and constant drive to stay up to date with latest technology and new techniques.
Excellent English communication and written skills.
Willing to relocate to Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
International Travel may be required as part of the role

Knowledge and prior experience with multiple scripting languages.
Experience with building behavior tree based AI.
FPS gameplay experience.
Massively Multiplayer Game experience.
MP debugging experience.
Experience in data analysis.
Strong interest in science fiction based themes.

G0RF posted:

Schimmel has a proven talent for reinforcing Chris’s delusory sense of superiority to all any and all possible competitors and as such is indispensable.

Sometimes it seems like that is the LA office’s primary purpose, manning and fortifying the defensive perimeter around Chris’s precious and vulnerable ego. Whether it’s John Schimmel declaring the obvious superiority of the game they hadn’t even started building yet, or Ben Lesnick treating Wing Commander arcana he discovers on eBay like it was another Dead Sea Scrolls discovery at Qumran, or Josh Herman telling those snotty Foundry punks Amir Boparai & Ricky Jutley that “CR was not joking about the worm” (so you sure as hell better stop doing that), CIG LA is definitely keeping Chris awash in the luxuriating delusions to which he’s become accustomed.


Sabreseven posted:

Star Citizen and CR a long analogy :

The most luxurious ship in the world, the RMS Titanic is sinking having struck an iceberg on her starboard bow, her bow is now under water up to the bridge and the lower decks are flooding fast, dragging the ill fated vessel to her doom. Captain Smith, a man of reputation and an experienced sailor, runs aft towards the galley, dodging through the crowd of over paying passengers, pausing only for autographs and to "um, er, 3 point oh" away questions of their fate. He finally reaches the galley, catching his breath and giving a cursory glace at the inventory of stores he spies the item he needs to save the ship.

Captain Smith, marches purposefully at an angle to counter the now heavily listing ship, to a fine glass cupboard, the engravings are wonderful. He reaches in and collects a small ornate sherry glass, with his prize secured he now begins to head downwards, into the bowels of the ship where he can work his way forward towards the damage. The lights are flickering as the doomed vessels electric generators and batteries are damaged by the salty brine welling up from the lower decks, he presses on into the gloom, water shin deep to start with but within a few short minutes he finds himself wading knee, then waist, then neck deep in frothy brine.

Finally, he has gone as far as he can, he is directly below the bridge and deep within the ship. Clamping an arm around an overhead freshwater pipe he retrieves the sherry glass from his jacket pocket, dips it into the seawater and then with a grimace and steely determination, turns to make the trip back to the upper promenade. The swim is perilous and long, but finally the water level becomes gradually lower until he see's the picture postcard perfect starry sky above. The over paying passengers see him rise from the service hatch, and gasp.

The Captain has only one final task to complete to save his beloved ship, with one hand over the top of the sherry glass to prevent the liquid from escaping, he strides confidently as far astern as he can, fighting gravity as the angle of the deck becomes ever steeper. He reaches the handrail of the port side promenade, the now silent crowd of passengers watch intently as their savior finishes what he started. In one deft move, Smith lifts his hand from the sherry glass and simultaniously pours the contained saltwater over the side back to whence it came.

The passengers erupt in a cacophony of roaring cheers that shakes and rattles the very deck they are standing on, arms are flung high, smiles abound "He's done it, we're saved!!" they chant almost in unison, eyes bulging, faces reddening, capileries bursting with the screaching effort. Lifting the brave Captain onto their shoulders, they parade him over to the starboard side and place him down, he nods and smiles, then jumps on the jetski which is packed with moneybags he had parked beside the ship and fucks off leaving them all to die while he laughs all the way to the bank. The end.

Daztek posted:

Evocati testing going well!

They don't bother emailing you about the tests/procedures so if you're not on the Spectrum 24/7 you might get banned

big nipples big life posted:

The people who paid thousands of dollars to test our software are not following our exact orders!

Golli posted:

I guess it would make too much sense to hire a contractor to conduct testing using known hardware configurations to follow test scripts and submit data in a timely and consistent manner.

It only makes sense if you are serious about putting out an actual product, though. So in this context, the approach they've taken makes perfect sense

Jobbo_Fett posted:


Take that, person who's given us money!

If you can't trust the members of your super secret club of exclusivity, who the gently caress can you trust?

Loxbourne posted:

DapperDon posted:

In the history of video games, has there ever been a project that has such an authoritative iron fist and thirst for vindictive revenge, punishment, cruelty, and humiliation as this? Because for the life of me I thought these things were SUPPOSED to be fun.
It's not working. They can't make it work. People in authority above them are dishing out punishments for not making it work. Sooner or later, people start thinking it'll work if they hurt their enemies.

They've already ground through filthy refunders, insufficently committed fellow believers, and spies/sabotage from Big Publishing. Now they're down to members of their own elite super-loyal testing group who don't obey orders. Surely if they punish these people hard enough, Star Citizen will start being good and Chris will stop yelling at them.

Abuminable posted:

XK posted:

Based on the deleted video, they have the same access as normal. They choose a ship from a menu on the Port Olisar computer terminal. Then the computer literally gives them the wrong ship. lol
That's neat... so they might get banned from the evocati for spawning a blacklisted ship they didn't even request

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

An evocati goon sent me this on his carrier pigeon:

We have access to all the ships in etf but we literally had to fight for it, because cig wanted players to play like they only had access to their paid ships. Which is hilarious if you consider that half the ships in the game have horrendous bugs that need desperate focus testing. Pointing this out was the argument that ultimately persuaded CIG to give us access to all of them.

Krycek posted:

A normal dev team: "oh look, whenever ship X spawns, the server crashes. How about I just turn off the ability to spawn ship X."

Crobbits team of modders: "do wop woah diddy dum gently caress you, banned!"

stinch posted:

just another example of sc doing things that have never been done before and hitting problems nobody knew existed.
Being able to control what spawns in a mmo, who could have predicted that would be useful?

Krycek posted:

A normal dev team: "oh look, whenever ship X spawns, the server crashes. How about I just turn off the ability to spawn ship X."

Crobbits team of modders: "do wop woah diddy dum gently caress you, banned!"

Jobbo_Fett posted:

reddit posted:

I created my account at the end of 2016 and after some months of thinking about buying the game in March-April I bought my first ship then played for a while and stopped, waiting for the v.3 to play again.
So as you may know I was just too tired to wait and wanted to start playing but big surprise when I tried to login I saw this message:
This account does not exist or is no longer active.
What can I do besides sending them a message it's been 2 weeks without an answer.
Edit: So as suggested by some of you I double checked my emails it seems that my bank made a refund to my bank account cause they thought it was a fraud obviously I never saw the email warning me about this and that’s why they took down my account. Thanks anyway for all your support I really appreciate it.
My bank thought this was a scam. I taught them a lesson and spent that money on the same fraud as before!

peter gabriel posted:

When your banks security algorithms recognise Star Citizen as a scam you really need to stop and think about all this poo poo

peter gabriel posted:

Hey guys my bank thinks this is a scam how do I get round that rather than take a long hard look at things?

VictorianQueerLit posted:

"Star Citizen" exists in the realm of the imagination right now. You can't get pissed off at how bullshit it's pay 2 win mechanics are because you can't state with 100% certainty what the specifics of it's mechanics actually even will be. Even though they are obviously bullshit you can technically argue they might not be bullshit. That technicality is all they need.

Like LTI. Nobody even knows how that works but we know backers have paid tens of millions of dollars for the concept. It's pay2win bullshit but backers live in that little area of the brain that makes you go "Well we don't know for certain it will be bullshit, and here is all of the ways it could not be bullshit." They won't get angry because they don't want to which is a luxury of the state of the product and it having no firm definition of anything at any level.

All of that falls apart when there is a game though.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

If CIG is smart enough to take out a payday loan to play the currency market somehow then I trust them with my savings.

A $2,700 space ship bond will have 400% growth in value, just ask MoMA! You'd be stupid not to buy!

peter gabriel posted:

Don't use Star Citizen as a bank, looking at the Twitch views you'll see it has a very very low interest rate

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Nov 15, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

I was trying to limit each month to 4 posts, but more actually makes it easier for me.

Have a random assortment that got lost on my phone for a while:

BloodyScab posted:

god i'd rub anyone to read the amd letter

TheAgent posted:

I have a p good feeling we will see the AMD letter by the end of 2018 or 2019

there's some serious people sniffing around, and I don't mean gaming sites n stuff

Saladin Rising posted:


If the rings spin off due to collisions with player ships, that would be because the rings are created as physics objects (which makes them conserve momentum during collisions), and are configured with a preposterously small amount of mass relative to the ships. It would be incredibly stupid to make those rings physics objects at all. They should be normal game objects with normal colliders which basically give them infinite intertia (think Doom-style walls).

This is yet more evidence for me that CIG has massively downscaled all objects in the game world. An example would be, if a humanoid model is ususllay 1 CryEngine unit in FarCry, making a human 0.001 unit and scaling everything relative to that would effectively make your level 1000x bigger. 1 meter turns into 1km.

Of course, any loving freshspawn game developer right out of college looking for apples on the coast knows not to do this, because it breaks your physics engine (everything acts like it doesn't have enough mass) and it fucks with collisions (because collision detection is only accurate down to roughly the centimeter depending on how fast the object is moving and what your framerate is). Any of that sound familiar?

That's why I always rail on the SC devs. They appear to have made almost every possible rookie mistake in the book and they don't seem to be fixing any of it, just building more floors on top of the burning wicker foundation which was built on a landfill which once was a sacred Native American burial ground.

Star Citizen is fundamentally doomed and will, imo, never be salvaged into a playable game.
I love posts like this, it's cool to see the plausible "under the hood" explanations as to why everything in Star Citizen is so hosed.

It also reinforces that no amount of "tweaking" will be able to solve problems like this, the fuckup is something that's at a base level, and you'd have to literally start from scratch to "fix" it.

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

Disco Lando posted:

Help Needed: Favorite Moments in Star Citizen's Development
Greetings Citizens,

Nothing formal. Nothing official. But today as we celebrate today's 5th birthday of the original announcement, I thought it'd be fun to see what you guys thought were your favorite moments from Star Citizen's development.

Now, this can be anything. A clip from a show. A particular patch or feature. A reveal or moment from a live event. Whatever moments stand out for you from the last five years.

Of course, in addition to sharing yours, don't forget to vote for others that you agree with.


Oh, and Happy Birthday, Star Citizens.

top reply -

time is a flat circle, star citizen thread.

Mokinokaro posted:

Someone needs to post the clip of CRoberts trying to demonstrate the game he'd obviously never seen before in that thread.

That was for sure a precious moment of SC development.

Gravity_Storm posted:

The truth is that Star Citizens biggest release was done by Disco Lando accidentally.
Refering to the Lando Leak

Mr. Carlisle posted:

I love citizen con because every year they show just enough made up bullshit on powerpoint slides to keep that sweet sweet whale blubber flowing for yet another year

The Titanic posted:

You realize coming up with these ideas is very hard. Chris Roberts can only have so many award winning genius ideas in a life time.

WW2 in space is very hard to pull off. Especially since your atmosphere is very 1940’s, but your hidden technology is space-age.

Like your people have guns that shoot bullets, and everybody hard loads cargo in crates, but inside the ship is liquid gravity. Nobody weaponized it though because they can’t advance outside of WW2 in space. So the gravity goo is taken for granted.

Chris Roberts is a visionary. If only he had programming talent to layer in the basic code on these ideas. He’s like a genius without a pen to write down all these ideas on.

I’m already looking forward to his next masterpiece. Which may be a space game in a highly advanced world but everybody in it is low tech, possibly like WW2 except in space.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

==Account Dissection==

shrach posted:

I'm going to point out one error/mistake in the CIG accounts per day.

1.) Geography

In a consolidated set of accounts for a group of companies you eliminate intra-group transactions. This makes sense, because if you sell goods and services between two companies in a group you would just have matching revenue in one company and cost in the other. So in the CIG UK group, you can ignore the revenue in F42, this has an equal expense in CIG UK that you also ignore. You can then ignore the revenue in CIG UK, since this has an equal expense in RSI UK that you also ignore. Essentially you will just be left with the development costs in F42 and the revenue in RSI UK.

RSI UK has one customer. This is Roberts Space Industries, Corp based in the USA. We know that RSI UK invoices in dollars, because they have exchange losses/gains. We know they don't charge VAT, because they are issuing invoices in dollars to an American company and there is no VAT timing liability on the balance sheet. So we know that the CIG UK group has 100% of its turnover generated in the United States. The accounts however claim that 100% of turnover is attributable to the UK.

These disclosures are typically generated like this by default in an accounting package and it would be up to the accountant to make a manual adjustment to ensure it is correct. It only really affects the overall image of the company rather than any financial implications. If a UK group has 100% turnover in the UK it doesn't really merit any further thought. If a UK group has 100% turnover in the USA it would make it more obvious that delving deeper showed the entire corporation had one customer and that it was a related party with an almost identical name to one of the UK companies.

If you're curious why the 2015 comparative figures don't match, that will be a future error/mistake.

shrach posted:

Today's accounting error/mistake.

2.) Balance(s) brought forward.

Here I present extracts from three sets of accounts. Roberts Space Industries International 2015 and 2016 and also the Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd 2016 (consolidated).

All three sets of accounts break down the balance due to Roberts Space Industries Corporation as at 31 December 2015. They all agree that the balance was £4,120,206 due and that costs charged in the period were £15,310,157. All three differ however in the amounts that were settled and that were brought forward from 2014.

At first glance, this would seem to be of little importance. The CIG 2016 group accounts are actually the same as the RSI 2016. While RSI show a bfwd balance of zero, the CIG set are a consolidated amount of zero and of negative £239,987. Ordinarily when preparing the 2016 accounts the 2015 comparatives would be generated automatically from the previous year. This would suggest that the RSI 2015 is the correct breakdown and both sets of 2016 accounts are wrong.

These related party transaction disclosures are usually edited manually, which to me suggests the accountant here is...perhaps not as attention to detail oriented as they could be. My personal opinion is that if you are charging a client some ~£48,000 for two years of accounts, you don't make basic errors like this. All the client gets to show for your work is 20 sheets of paper, stapled together. So you should always make sure all the sheets are stacked perfectly before and after stapling. You should take a similar level of scrutiny to what is actually printed on the paper.

There is actually a more serious reason this discrepancy and ones like it are annoying and there is a huge "mistake" that is "hidden" here, but I'll revisit this later.

shrach posted:

Today's accounting error/mistake

3.) Debits and Credits.

Knowing your debits from your credits may be hard for your first week but this should become pretty ingrained as part of the core of double-entry bookkeeping.

It's pretty simple. A credit in the profit and loss account is a "good" thing, it increases profit. The corresponding debit in your balance sheet is a "good" thing, it will represent an asset. So a debit value in your profit and loss account will be a "bad" thing that reduces your profit and the corresponding credit in your balance sheet is a "bad" thing that will represent a liability.

So if you make a foreign currency exchange gain, it should be apparent that it will be a "good" thing in your profit and loss account that increases your profit. Thus a credit balance.

So here, you can see the wording is correct in the 2015 RSI accounts. In 2016 someone just had to add "(gains)/." to the line where it says, "Exchange losses". Instead they added brackets around the word losses and then added in the gains/ without brackets. This is painful to see because of both how basic the error is and how they had to go out of their way to make the error. I included the line from the CIG UK Ltd 2016 (group) accounts just to show it is possible to get this correct.

This has no real numerical impact but this is building on the narrative about the quality of the preparation of the 2016 RSI accounts, which is some foreshadowing.

shrach posted:

Today's accounting error/mistake is the final one. It builds on the ones that were previously highlighted but this is actually more a series of deliberate decisions. I'm struggling to find a generously innocuous word that conveys making deliberate decisions that are possibly not correct.

4.) Prior year adjustments.

At some point a set of accounts will be filed that are incorrect. Humans can make mistakes. I'll give an example. Say in 2015 a client paid you in cash for £1000 and you accidentally lost the sales receipt and accidentally banked the money in your personal bank account instead of the company bank account. Later on in 2016, the client asks for a receipt and this helps you remember this event. You're now faced with three options.
(i) You could file an amended set of accounts for 2015 that makes corrections. This seems intuitive and I'm sure textbooks and "experts" online will tell you this is the right thing to do. No one ever files amended accounts. To be honest I'm not entirely sure why, but it doesn't happen.
(ii) You can "do nothing". This doesn't really mean you do nothing. It means when you file the 2016 accounts, you add on those £1000 sales that were really in 2015 and you pay the company back the cash from your personal account. So now the company is declaring that missing income, albeit in the wrong period.
(iii) You make a prior year adjustment to the 2015 figures in the comparative when you compile the 2016 accounts. You disclose all of these items and you can file an amended tax return, without adjusting the 2015 accounts themselves.

The UK CIG group were faced with such a situation. Here is the disclosure in the Foundry 42 Ltd accounts that explains the decision:

So the original turnover amount was £15,169,773 and it was adjusted to be £12,737,713. A reduction in turnover of £2,432,060. This means they also had to add £2,432,060 to the balance sheet, as a liability. Since they now owed Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd that amount. You can see they did all this correct (since they were owed £83,979 separately, this is netted off against this amount due to CIG UK).

So far this is all correct from an accounting angle. However, the UK group of companies are all irrevocably linked. Because of the way the accounts were filed, we have access to the individual filings for 2015 but not the group accounts. In 2016 we have the accounts for Foundry 42, RSI and the group accounts (but not the individual accounts for the CIG company). We can pretty much recreate the missing sets of accounts.

Here is a summary of the 2015 accounts, as they were originally filed. It should be noted that the linked green items, do not appear in the group accounts. These inter-company transactions cancel each other.

Here is an extract from the 2016 consolidated group accounts. Note the profit for the year 2015 shown as £1,088,498.

So the group profit in my summary differs from the 2015 group profit that is disclosed in the 2016 accounts by £2,432,060. Now we know what that is, it's that prior year adjustment. But nowhere in the 2016 group accounts is any prior-year adjustment disclosed. What is disclosed is that the CIG company profit was the same as filed in 2015 at £265,299 profit.

So now we have a big problem. How can we adjust the summary of the 2015 accounts to correct for this prior-year adjustment. Remember all the linked boxes in my summary that can't be changed individually? If we are reducing Foundry 42s turnover figure by £2,432,060 we also have to reduce CIGs cost of sales by £2,432,060 since that is where the turnover came from. We know that CIG (the company) profit stayed the same though, so we know we have to reduce CIGs turnover, also by £2,432,060. So now we also need to reduce RSIs cost of sales by £2,432,060. All good so far. We know that that RSIs profit remains zero also, because we know the groups profit so we also have to reduce their turnover by £2,432,060 however this goes outside the UK group because this is a refund to Roberts Space Industries Corporation, in the USA. So this is going to be an amount in dollars, so it may not match exactly and we have to rely on the accountants to get this right.

We arrive at a new summary, something like this. Bolded numbers are the figures that have been adjusted:

For some reason, they changed the cost of sales in RSI by adding £239,986 to the costs. I've noted it down as a suspense amount because we have no idea why they did this. So to maintain a zero profit, we need to counter this by adding £239,986 to their revenue. This seems like a leap of faith but our summary now matches the group accounts exactly.

So now the group accounts match our summary there are some implications to this. The UK group derives all its income from RSI International Ltd, which derives all its income from the USA company RSI Corporation. Now we can solve why the 2015 turnover figures don't match and the 2016 ones do match. Note the figure does match our summary for RSI, that we have recreated with our own turnover figure by deduction from the group accounts.

We sort of have to now conclude that there must be two different sets of RSI accounts for them to get this "correct" in the group accounts. The RSI accounts that were filed were never corrected for any prior-year adjustment and yet, there must exist a set of RSI accounts that have been corrected in order to get a set of group accounts that is accurate.

The implications here are decidedly tricky. Back in 2015 the US companies would have presumably filed accounts and tax returns to US authories that claimed a dollar amount of expenses equal to £15.3m. Any audits done at this time, would have confirmation letters and invoices for these amounts. As far as audit trails for this £2.4m refund that would have gone back to the United States, well I hope I have demonstrated that this trail is really unclear for anyone that might investigate it. If it were accidentally paid to the wrong entity and then never declared, there would not be any trail.

So the corrections were handled appropriately in the Foundry 42 Ltd accounts. Adjustments were made and disclosures for those adjustments. They used option (iii) from my opening statement. The CIG accounts are slightly trickier, since we have the company accounts for 2015 and the group accounts for 2016 but we can safely say that some adjustments were made but absolutely no disclosures at all. That is sort of an incorrectly implented option (iii) from my opening statement. The RSI accounts have not had any adjustments made and therefore no disclosures and we have some pretty firm suspicions that there may in fact be two different sets of RSI accounts and they are certainly aware that the filed RSI accounts do not match the RSI accounts used for the consolidation of the group accounts that were filed. So it turns out that there was a hidden fourth option that you will not find in any text books and Chris Roberts has developed new solutions to problems and a way to make money apparently disappear.

I can only imagine the state of the dozen or so American companies that are open to zero public scrutiny.

Unrelated hypothetical paragraph
Imagine your company is sitting on £2.4m in the bank that it should not have, that should be refunded to another company in another country. However, in that country, that company does not know it's due any money from years ago. It was all audited and balances confirmed at that time and it's not asking or expecting any money. However, this company with the money in the bank has to get rid of it to make its books balance, it sure should go to the right place and I'm sure anyone would make certain that the right people get this £2.4m.

So as a disclaimer I should stress that I am in no way suggesting that anything unlawful was actually done here. I guess this highlights the "perils" of having multiple shell companies with regard to nice clean audit trails.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 4

reddit posted:

As I've pointed out before, back in January 2015, Roberts delivered a presentation in which he claimed that not only would the first episode of Squadron 42 be released by Fall 2015, but the full commercial release - meaning SQ42 and the persistent universe / MMO - would happen by the end of 2016. He made this claim at 1:32:06 in this video.
At the time of this presentation, the PU wasn't yet in the alpha stage. He seemed to think that his team could get through all of alpha, get through all of beta, and optimize enough for a decent MMO launch in 2 years, all while concurrently working on a single-player game. By saying this, he demonstrated that he either didn't know what he was talking about, or he was being dishonest. It was probably a combination of the two.
Now, almost 3 years after that presentation, backers still haven't seen a mission demo of SQ42, and the MMO is in alpha with, I'm guessing, another 1-2 years of alpha ahead of them. At this rate, I would be impressed if the first episode of SQ42 gets released by 2020, and the MMO gets released by 2023.

reddit posted:

If Star Wars Battlefront 2 had Star Citizen's community self.starcitizen

"Darth Vader being locked behind a paywall unlocked isn't pay to win. He has his advantages and disadvantages when compared to other characters, he serves a different purpose in matches. It's horizontal progression, not vertical".
"Micro transactions and buying heroes and star cards is a nice addition to the game for people who have more money than time. As not everyone can put multiple hours in a game per week".
"Having gameplay changing items that can be bought with real money in game isn't pay to win. Think about it this way: 1: You meet a player who has been playing Battlefront 2 for a year. 2: You meet a player who payed for all his items. What's the difference?".
"Being able to pay for superior star cards and heroes isn't pay to win. Star Wars Battlefront 2 is a skill based game. Meaning you can beat people who have star cards much better than yours if you have more skill. So arguing that star cards give you an advantage is irrelevant".
"Star Wars Battlefront 2 isn't pay to win as you can unlock everything without paying a cent".

I absolutely love what Chris Roberts is doing and I love star citizen to death. But what I absolutely loving hate is the absolute lack of criticism on ANYTHING CIG does, from the community. This is what happened with the Star Wars Prequels, no one opposed George Lucas when he was making the prequels, and the prequels turned out to be poo poo. Even though I love Star Citizen, I will not stand for gameplay affecting microtransactions.

FrozenLederhosen posted:

One thing I don't see brought up at all is the fact that these morons are going to go through "release fatigue" where, when it's finally released(hah), there's nothing to be excited about because they've been playing through it piecemeal over an entire decade. Flying in the same spaceship isn't going to suddenly be really fun because they finally added that one goofy feature they promised years ago. It's like paying premium to stay in a resort while they're building it. When it's finally done, there's no awe or surprise. You've already done everything while enduring endless bullshit.

SomethingJones posted:

Around the Verse:
"...and making sure that we can refine that to as small of a list and as concise of a list as what we would consider a MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT, to put that out to PTU and to live"

"...we're gonna review that process, hopefully get a minimal amount of feedback so we can get super close to calling this thing FEATURE COMPLETE"

"...also we've got all sorts of art that had rotations all over the place, we had to go back and make sure that everything was placed properly on the shelves and that we're having all the FINAL STUFF in the game, all the FINAL ASSETS in the build"

G0RF posted:

“Shopkeeper talk” is second only in annoyance to CIG babble about female player characters on the “Grating Bullcrap They’ve Been Talking About Ineffectually for Years” list.

I mean, dayemn — they’ve been futzing around with Shopkeepers unsuccessfully forever, and to no productive end.

What happened to all the exciting work we heard about in early 2016? The highly detailed animations of ship hawking, TV monitor gawking and champagne dreams? The showfloor buzz, the meta-spectacle of in-game ship fetishizing by NPC hucksters in AstroArmada?

Oh, that’s right... All that work that came out of the Great CIG Management Brain Trust Gathering of early 2016 didn’t go into the game... Not that it was wasted, though.

At the time it seemed pretty alarming to hear them openly admitting they didn’t really know what their development priorities for the year were — because they didn’t have a master plan stretching across years, they pretty much reset their development priorities at the start of each new year and at the time of filming, the big wigs hadn’t decided yet.

Then it seemed even more damning after the Brain Trust Get Together in California that Priority One was “let’s get our shopkeeper NPCs in the game loaded up with some highly detailed ship hawking movements so the ship showroom in game at least feels abuzz with excitement...” In a space sim without Mining, Bounty Hunting, Trade, Mercenary work, an Economy, Female Players, a satisfying Flight Model or any kind of combat AI...

But as we now know, it was even worse than that. At this point it’s more plausible that the CIG Brain Trust got together to set their priorities for the year and most of it was about the sort of sizzle reel material they needed to start working on for Q4’s big sales push. And the only things that look remotely like what Jake Ross described in that January of 2016 we’re animations and assets later redeployed for a ship sale commercial in a series of year-end commercials to sell yet more ships in a space sim Mining, Bounty Hunting, Trade, Mercenary work, an Economy, Female Players, a satisfying Flight Model or any kind of combat AI...

And now it’s over a year and a half later, and the AI we’ve heard about for years yet hardly encountered in game is proving a big challenge to implement for Shopkeepers — the benign, passive, generally stationary non-entities that are the absolute flotsam and jetsam of MMO-dom...

Just give up, Chris. You lost the plot and with more money than you deserved in a dozen lifetimes you’re fighting for your life to salvage something, anything playable amidst the debris field of the once soaring opportunity fortune granted you. You’ve saturated your potential niche market, milked the hell out of the most gullible, and the deflation of the hope bubble is so violent now it sounds like a 130 decibel whoopy cushion eruption under the rear end of the god of folly.

The spectacle of you and Sandi trying to be cutesy in your lead-in to Burndown every week is absolutely nauseating. The very need to have a weekly show dedicated to ongoing excuse-making as to why you STILL can’t deliver on a nearly year-overdue update on your Year 5 pre-Alpha is bad enough without the glib, chatty wink-winks that kick it off. Each new installment only adds another chapter to the epic tome “Why Chris Roberts is a terrible game developer, project manager and company leader.” If you lack the awareness to not be embarrassed with each new delay and lack the humility to not be ashamed, plant two other people in that chair who might and use you and Sandi’s time in ways more likely to help the project. Like year long vacations or joint resignations.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

I'm loving that the argument that Star Citizen isn't pay to win comes so close to describing how it doesn't even make any sense.

"Honestly the capital ships are so unwieldy they will probably be seen as a burden and everyone will stop using them changing the entire game"

Ha. The advantages people paid for are so terrible that when everyone stops using them they will not be considered advantages anymore. It's funny but it's also complete speculation about a game that doesn't exist yet with mechanics that don't exist and interactions that haven't happened yet between ships that don't exist in an economy that doesn't exist.

You can not say that Star Citizen has no Pay To Win in it because it is the exact definition of it. When you look at a raw exchange of in game assets and currency for money and try to speculate wild hypotheticals to show that there are instances where a player that paid money is not at an advantage over someone who didn't and redefine the definition of what "Win" means you are showing that you want it to not be pay to win, not that it isn't.

G0RF posted:

“I don't think there is any other game that is trying to do as much as we're trying to do. So, degree of difficulty 11, not 10.”

Everything is difficulty level 11 when you’re a dumbass. Even moreso when you’re a dumbass who sees a genius looking back at you in the mirror.

I’ve come to appreciate the true genius of “Around the Verse” and related programming isn’t in the intimate look at Development, for as we see with dozens of abandoned prior efforts and misleading disclosures over the years, the view is anything but privileged or trustworthy.

The true genius of CIG programming is in its metronomic, anondyne normalization / sanitization of their absolute, inarguable developmental dysfunction.

“Burndown” captures that spirit so perfectly, with the agreeable Eric Davis putting a friendly (if somewhat patronizing at times) face on what would otherwise be seen as salt-on-the-wound proof of CIG’s abject inability to overcome the curse of the Frankenengine, to deliver upon the hubristic claims of Chris Roberts, to prioritize the core space sim essentials (designing satisfying game loops, perfecting flight models, fleshing out those basic features pitched five years ago, etc.) and all the rest.

The Sean Tracy NewEgg livestream I dropped in earlier is the same thing. Sean went right on that show and delivered a complete fiction of the present game state with absolutely no hesitation whatsoever, just as his exemplar leader has done for years with bald-faced bullcrap like this, this, and this.

Lies. Massive lies. Constant lies. And continuum of lying so persistent and inescapable it actually becomes immersive.

Normalization of managerial deviance — and pathological public dishonesty is exactly that, CIG — is just as effectively achieved via their programming. The quote above from 10ftC delivered with benign confidence is itself an example of it. The message as delivered is, contrary to all the early bluster and constant mugging confidence, a concession of an anticipated failure to deliver on original scope promises all sugar-coated in Chris’s noxious entitlement. For though he has no plans to deliver what he originally pitched, he has expectations of perpetual subsidy from the chump army to get there, or partly there, or somewhere eventually.

And wherever he’s standing when the money finally runs out will be declared the destination. The journey itself — one of a portly goofball false prophet staggering, stumbling, gasping for breath, leading the exiles through the wilderness without map, compass, or North Star and spouting constant word of the Promised Land over yon horizon — will be declared their promised home and those still following may even believe it. Yet what Chris will no longer enjoy, and indeed what he has already lost, is control of his own narrative. The early years allowed him to project a narrative arc about himself, his game and his studio that was readily believed by most, even many goons, and his claims were repeated breathlessly as fact by the supplicant gaming press eager to amplify hype for the easy clicks.

Those days are long since behind us and they aren’t coming back. The narrative of ascent once so forceful and certain is in now very clearly in terminal decay, a slow downward spiral towards yet another cautionary gaming tale about squandered opportunities and abused trust. About the perils of trusting micromanaging asset fetishists and the tragic, underappreciated virtues of proper scope design and competent project management. Chris had a chance to make history here, perhaps the most opportune chance in this history of gaming. And through deficits of both competence and character, he absolutely blew it, and the price he will pay for his hubris, deceit, greed and stupidity is that the history he could’ve written will instead be written for him.

The best he can hope for at this point is that some salvageable mediocrity survives and that he’s cast as fool in an epic tale of gaming folly. It would be a generous appraisal and it’s more truly stated that any man who profits so handsomely by lying so often for so long is a villain at heart. His only plausible defense is one he lacks the self-awareness and humility to make — that he was lying to himself the whole time, too, and because he so normalized the act of lying to himself, his employees and his backers, and because he drove away the very sorts he needed to call him out, there was no one left to correct him.

SCtrumpHaters posted:

Daztek posted:

Holy poo poo I thought that was just a insane citizen but its a head CIG employee lol.

The Titanic posted:

Right now it’s still an “us vs them” war, but I think it’s starting to lessen. Once the “us vs them” is gone it’d turn into a “players vs CIG” which is what shouhave happened for a long time.

The irony of the situation may be though is that these supporters who were literally insane abt their support to the point they shielded CIG like frothing monkeys around a banana, may have ultimately hurt the final product.

Imagine if you would when CR went out and started doing tons of motion capture instead of actually making a game years ago, if funding basically stopped and people said “no, gently caress you and playing director and your stupid loving Squadron 42 nobody really wants, we want the game we’re spending $$$ on in the way of digital items and purchases.”

Imagine how differently things would have been if that happened, and Chris Roberts was forced to stop being a playboy millionaire and instead try to actually make a game. Instead of a Gary Oldman you’d have a studio full of seasoned programmers working on the actual product.

But hey, got to protect Chris, right? It was totally worth it, I’m sure.

Spiderdrake posted:

AP posted:

If you follow the streamers for any length of time their interest in a ship declines as CIG stops talking about it and moves to the next thing. As CIG stops talking about every ship after it's sale is over and begins hyping the next dumb idea this leads to the Citizens melting older jpgs and buying new ones. Twerk17 recently melted some dumb rear end large battleship thing I forget the name of, for the new base building jpg.
Wait wait.

You can't fly most of these ships and I'm not sure anyone has mentioned the mechanics to even make these ships in game. But you can buy them, obviously, and process your fictional jpeg into some form of currency?

This thread is seriously like a slowly circling motorboat around the greatest wreck in the history of gaming. I know this poo poo is all old to regulars, but I still hit things every week I've been reading that make me sit up and goggle at the screen.

Foo Diddley posted:

Slow_Moe posted:

Maybe the internet has broken me, but that door looks a bit like goatse.

No ring ofc.
Oh man, I totally see it

TheLastRoboKy posted:

Every time they declare "This will shut them up!" and it just doesn't. Then again if they had pattern recognition Star Citizen wouldn't still have backers.

CIG Employee posted:

Also, not to burst your bubble, but you might find Star Citizen to be a terrible first-time job. It's late in a project, the documentation is patchy, no one would have a lot of time to explain things and many systems require you to write code that works with their incomplete feature set while being structured to be easily adapted to their eventual feature set. Then again, what do I know? Maybe that's your bag.

Thoatse posted:

What insures SC will never be a VR experience though is the ridiculously twitchy speeds everything moves/flies at, even the biggest ship instant accelerates and rockets off the pad like it's made of balsa wood and it's not an anomaly. I know no one here believes it, but the flight model isn't actually noclip -it just looks nearly indistinguishable because accel is tuned so loving high but it's exactly what they want in order to appease the kbm shooter crowd this game is really being made for once original sim whales were bled out and became the minority.

Even if they solved the technical issues with framerate, IK/walking rigs, immersion animations, locomotion, canned aim and cover animations etc, they are still left with a game with mechanics that are still incompatible with VR. Also they were pressed on the use of 6dof tracked controllers and they officially ruled out ever supporting them. Really the only way SC sees any type of VR action beyond some lovely vorpx pukeport is if they make a completely separate branch of the game for it that does not mix with the main branch. It's like they took practically every step imaginable to ensure they will never be able to utilize this technology, even if they ever manage to work out the technical side of things that they are not even trying to work on.

Loxbourne posted:

Travis and Chelsea Day were a husband and wife couple, both ex-Blizzard, who came aboard CIG in the early days as funding was taking off like a rocket. Travis was an experienced developer and producer who had worked on both Diablo 2 and 3. Chelsea was a similarly experienced Blizzard customer support manager, making for quite a power couple. Their appointments did much to soothe early backer concern at the runaway stretch goals.

Travis worked as a producer at CIG until June 2015. His solid experience and measured tones on CIG videos did a lot to shore up backer confidence during the long period when Star Marine was "weeks, not months" away. He left quietly, ostensibly to go back to Blizzard. A certain amount of backer unease followed his departure.

Chelsea on the other hand became a community icon, a regular on CIG's videos and the face of the customer support unit's concierge team. She became popular with backers for quick, friendly responses and above all being willing to hook whales up with rare and valuable ships if they missed a sale. In those days that was ships like the Idris-M and Scythe. Chelsea's popularity stemmed from the way she wouldn't just grant refunds for these rare and expensive ships, but she would put a refunded ship back in "stock" and let another backer buy it if they asked.

Being a CS rep, and also being a feeeeeehmale, this brought her to the attention of CIG's truly wonderful and caring fanbase

Some of the first rumblings of disquiet on these forums started when Chelsea began to share stories about the kind of people who kept calling up the customer support teams and asking very inappropriate questions - including, yes, the infamous backer who apparently kept asking for video footage of the female CS team members' feet. This was the time "The Wulge" got his nickname from apparently having a habit of sending the CS team dick picks long before he targeted fellow players. Goons began to joke about how CIG were clearly longing for release day so the community managers wouldn't have to suck up to whales and could start purging the creeps. Sadly these days we know better.

Alas, Chelsea's popularity with the backer base also put her in the sights of people who simply could not tolerate sharing the spotlight. These were also the days when attractive female CS reps who appeared in CIG videos had a nasty tendency to disappear if they drew too much viewer attention away from the High Queen of Marketing. The exact details aren't known, but the body language in the videos spoke volumes - spoke them so loudly that even the backers began to pick up on it and ask questions on the RSI forums. In one video (I think an anniversary stream or something; it was an all-hands team thing) Chelsea was spotted visibly rolling her eyes as Sandi spoke, and after that the writing was on the wall. She left at the same time as her husband, again going back to her old job at Blizzard.

Chelsea is still fondly remembered by the backers to this day, particularly those who bought in at concierge level. Quite a few complaints and concern threads (and more than a few refund requests) have cited how later customer services teams are "nowhere near as good as Chelsea".

Chelsea would be replaced for a few months by another female deputy customer services rep, supposedly a "Deputy Head of Marketing" - a woman who would in turn depart during a purge of suspected leakers around the time of the AEGIS Potato debacle, when someone leaked the name of an upcoming new ship just prior to CitizenCon only for CIG to frantically rename it to try and discredit the leak. Someone left a placeholder up on the website and the CIG store proudly began selling the "AEGIS POTATO" until someone typed the new name in.

TheAgent-sourced (and Bootcha-supported) rumours said she quit on the spot in disgust after witnessing her colleagues being fired by Sandi for refusing to hand over their mobile phones to CIG's private detective agency so they could be checked for leaks.

After that Sandi began tweeting about training a new CS team in Europe en masse, the same people who would turn out to be running the ticket queue that labelled backers as "snowflake" or "goon" and cross-referenced them with their suspected usernames on other sites. But the saga wasn't over yet!

In early 2016, perhaps in a sharing mood or perhaps in a moment of drunken weakness, Bootcha let slip a little more info from his time as a CIG investor. We knew that after Derek's first spectacular leaks, Ortwin and Chris panicked and brought in a private detective agency (hired with backer money) to try and flush out the leakers. Apparently their report fingered none other than...Travis Day.

We'll never know if Travis really was a source of some early leaks (Bootcha's comments were pretty sceptical and suggested he thought that the agency were just trying to find a patsy to justify their fee), but again the reasoning told us all we needed to know. Supposedly, the reason they considered Travis the most likely leaker was that he had a motive to seek revenge on Sandi for her poor treatment of his wife.

Truly, Cloud Imperium Games is a wonderful working environment.

Loxbourne posted:

One more one!

"Moved to Concern"

A nasty little trick popular with moderators on the old RSI forums. To defuse rising backer angst, Lesnick & co created a "concern" subforum for angry backers to post about things that bothered them about Star Citizen. This kept them out of more public-facing forums where backers might be put off buying ships. Needless to say, any thread expressing dissatisfaction with Star Citizen (or even one where the conversation turned in a heretical direction) would be swiftly yanked from the public eye and moved to the Concern forum.

However once moved to Concern, the other shoe would drop. There were very strict rules about threads created in the Concern forum, one of which was that all threads had to have a poll so Citizens could vote on whether or not they felt the thread highlighted a major issue (and other laws about speaking respectfully etc). A thread created elsewhere would of course not meet the requirements...and so be immediately locked. Sometimes the hapless thread OP would be banned, too.

Backers quickly learned not to create threads that could even potentially be deemed concern threads, lest they be banned by association. A rather grim and pathetic culture sprang up whereby a backer raising a concern would feel the need to start their post with two or three paragraphs reaffirming their support for the project and their loyalty to CRoberts, lest the mob descend and an RSI moderator wade in to brand the thread with the mark of Concern.

This trick became no longer necessary when the fanbase was unceremoniously moved to Spectrum in mid-2016 and the old RSI forums were "archived" and quietly deleted. Spectrum came with a full suite of mod tools enabling a moderator to make a heretical thread (or even a user's entire post history) disappear with a click of a button, and angry backers all moved to Reddit instead.

IcarusUpHigh posted:

shill site posted:

Every Star Citizen trailer features 100% in-engine content using actual game assets. Our aim is to show you the game we’re building, not to stun you with pre-rendered cutscenes. With the attention to detail we’re putting into Star Citizen’s world, you’re forgiven if the two seem like one and the same.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 5

reddit posted:

reddit posted:

To be honest... And I'm saying this as a first-round crowdfunding contributor who has been following this project since its conception in 2011... You sound like someone in a cult. You've been promised so much, and there's been so much hype, but all we have right now are a few tiny tech demos and a bunch of promises. This game was funded six years ago, has raised over $150 million, and still hasn't been released, with no clear release date in sight. I've been watching the progress from day one, with so much excitement and eagerness. I've been right there beside you all, saying "when will it be ready?" and waiting to jump into my ship and sail the cosmos. But I feel... disenchanted. The hype train keeps on rolling, but they still haven't stitched things together into a single unit yet. All we've had is a few simple tech demos. The scope of the game keeps changing, and new features are constantly announced, and it seems like development is charging forward... But part of me wonders if they're just selling us smoke and mirrors and living easy on that $150 million.
So, I guess what I'm saying, is the thing I'm most excited for is to actually see this game get released, and to know I didn't waste all that money all those years ago.
I can't possibly say "this will be the only game I need" or that it'll be "everything I've ever wanted," because I honestly don't even know if it'll ever come out, and because I've become wary of all the hype and propaganda.
It feels to me an awful lot like religion... The church telling me "spend your life dedicated to our cause and tossing your money into our coffers, and you'll have a boundless and beautiful reward when the rapture comes." Heaven will be the "only thing I need," and it'll be "everything I've ever wanted..." Except I'll never see it in my lifetime, and I won't be able to call home after I'm dead to tell you whether it lived up to all the hype.
I feel jaded. I've lost faith in RSI just like I lost faith in Jesus. Thankfully, Star Citizen has the potential to actually be released in my lifetime and to prove me wrong, whereas Jesus can't make the same claim. So, I guess I could say that I have more faith in RSI than I do in Jesus... But only a little.
I can't wait for this game to be released. Not because I'm super excited to play it, but because I'm just so ready for the stress of waiting to be over. Even if it sucks and we've all wasted our money, at least we'll have closure.

Beet Wagon posted:

peter gabriel posted:

Star Citizen has the potential to actually be released in my lifetime and to prove me wrong, whereas Jesus can't make the same claim
I rolled away the rock Ben after three days and it turns out Star Citizen was still dead, actually

Dogeh posted:

Goon 2:5 And in the beginning of the ELE, all was good in the Star Citizen community. The whales were brought forth and did purchase of the jpegs in copious amounts. The people asked 'Was Star Citizen good?' and the Shills replied 'Yea verily, for unto you a ship is born and it shall be called Idris and you will land the ship on many moons of your choice' and the people were glad.

Goon 2:6 But in all the lands did a darkness dwell. For hidden from the people, a great untruth was lying. And people knew it not. The base god of the people had maketh a falsehood and had told the people that Star Citizen was good and that they should buyeth of it, and that he would finish it, in fidelity. The fidelity was to be good and the fidelity was to be real.

Goon 2:7 But lo, a great prophet came at that time and his name was Derek. Derek was the counting of his name and the people were mightily puzzled. 'Derek', they cried, 'whence come thee to this land of darkness?'

Goon 2:8 And the Derek replied "Oh great people for whom doth thou not knowest the truth, verily this day an evil lies in the land and you can read about it in my July blog'. And the people did readest of the July blog and it took them many days for Derek was not light of typing.

Goon 2:9 But gradually the people knew of the blog and they knew Derek. But yet, there were those who had not taketh of the blogs and they were mightily afraid.

Goon 2:10 They had come from a far off place, a land where darkness walked in perpetuity, called r/ds. They greatly envied his genitals and spoketh about them in hushed tones.

Goon 2:11 "Oh Derek," they cried, "Why are thy genitals so superior to ours?". And Derek smiled on them and blocked them.

Goon 2:12 Then it came to pass, that the owner of the land of r/ds, a man called Jester, did tire of the people from r/ds, and closed off the land to others. Derek was mightily pleased and shouted gaily, "I closed those rear end-clowns down."

Goon 2:13 And the people from r/ds did gnash their teeth and wail epithets at the prophet and he smiled all the more.

Beet Wagon posted:

reddit posted:

after the exchange i had with the backers in the past few day i kinda dont even give a poo poo anymore. I think i will join you guys and discuss all that is to discuss and leave SC behind me.
Problem is even when i want to register i need to pay 10 dollars. Or do i understand something wrong?
I'm the man who put $250 into Star Citizen but can't afford a $10 forums account.

Honestly it's probably for the best, there's no way in hell the thread doesn't rip Fandred apart like a pack of dingoes with a fresh baby.

The Titanic posted:

Fandred1 is learning that it’s not goons or Derek who make CIG look like a comedy and a bad studio, it’s CIG.

Pretty sure nobody here can wave a wand and say, “abracadabra, no progress for 6 years and no game to show for it, but tons of YouTube content and aimless merchandising!” Unless really Mel Brooks is here because he could probably do that.

Loxbourne posted:

I just want to see Fandred crossing the border like a proper Cold War defection. Huge concrete wall, rain-slick streets, signs in a strange Xi'an language, sinister men in trenchcoats giving the signal.

Then he's over the barbed wire and running. Alarms blare and searchlights spark up, oh no! Gunshots ring out! Then the entire border guard force suddenly clip through their own guard towers and collapse spasming.

Derek and Beer adjust their long grey coat collars and smuggle him into a basement full of angry, dancing cats. They send the codeword - defector secure. Crack teams of refunders swing into action. By the next morning, Fandred's been smuggled into Prague hidden in the bottom of a crate of Wing Commander memorabilia and his refund has been laundered through a dozen offshore investment accounts from Siberia to Madagascar.

Shhh, shhh, you're safe now. Another freed from the long shadow of the Crobbler.

G0RF posted:

glassdoor posted:

Former Employee - Network Engineer in Houston, TX

— Doesn't Recommend
— Negative Outlook
— Disapproves of CEO

I worked at Cloud Imperium Games full-time (More than 3 years)

Really cool company to work for and everyone wants to talk to you about it. Have some great equipment especially stuff donated from Amazon.

My job wasn't really needed at the stage in the project I was hired, and won't be needed for quite some time. My advise was taken but not listened to, and more senior people were posted above me from other departments with absolutely no history of networking - like art / marketing

Well friend, that’s because Cloud Imperium Games isn’t a gaming studio, it’s a company whose core business model is now and has always been the marketing and selling of high-poly spaceship assets or even more desirably the promise of them. It is led by a troika of amoral family members who are hopelessly unfit to lead a 2017-era gaming studio yet uniquely gifted at rationalizing their opportunistic financial exploitation of a credulous customer base and considerably proficient at employing cinematic propaganda to achieve those ends. So effective have they been at the unthinkable that their core financiers are now more invested in playing a psychosocial game — that being one of ritualized anticipation of the next ship sale, the next fan conference, the next TV show — than in playing the previously promised actual game.

Had they been making that from the start, well, you might’ve been a valued employee rather than a whiny packet nerd forced to report to a management-tier compromised of a hangars-on society of longtime Hollywood cronies and even longer-time game industry friends from a bygone era in which the founder was relevant. Oh, and his wife, who lacks the talent to have even been either.

SomethingJones posted:

CIG are to an extent making Derek's involvement and blogs about Star Citizen redundant, as they consistently continue to demonstrate ineptness, incompetence and greed all on their own.

The Titanic posted:


This is hilarious because I’ve been saying in my blog about how CIG stopped caring about a year ago and here it is. You can almost pinpoint the exact spot where they gave up trying to make a game.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

You see if you consider having no direction, no plan, no goals and no destination to be "Trail Blazing" then they are in fact good things.

Sure you might be wandering into a million miles of wilderness with no supplies but if you tell everyone that you are blazing a trail then you are actually so admirable you are above all criticism.

ComfyPants posted:

idiodic waterslide metaphor on reddit posted:

Actually it's more like they wanted to show everyone how cool the water slide was going to look so they could sell more season tickets, so they threw together some plywood they found in the garage and piled it up into precarious 5 story behemoths that were in no way riveted together, showing off what the BDWSE would look like by making the piles look vaguely water-slide-shaped and painted to look real pretty.

After the cash rolled in they decided that instead of building the real water slides, they would make intricate CGI demos of what the water slides would be like and make commercials about the water slides and draw water slides and show everyone the pictures so they'd buy more tickets.

Then one day a ticket holder noticed that they'd spent several thousand dollars on tickets but still hadn't yet actually slid down one yet, so the water slide company figured SOMEONE should get to work on those slides so they sent a few guys over to the park to finish assembling the slides that were already precariously erected on the site, but because they weren't screwed together yet, whenever somebody went up to the top to start work on fastening everything together, it would fall down, and then they'd have to rebuild the whole thing all over again, and the guy running the operation demanded that nobody use any rivets or screws or bolts until all of the slides were put up so every time someone started trying to rivet the things together, they would just collapse again.

Soon, it was apparent that they would need a lot more people to hold up all the plywood to get it ready to be bolted together, but a lot of people decided not to stick around because they had degrees in engineering and dreams of building great water slides and all they were doing were drawing pictures of swimming trunks, and were appalled at the lovely management at the waterslide company, and plus a lot of the plywood that fell down ended up being damaged and they had to keep buying more, until suddenly someone looked around and said hey we don't have any money left because we spent it all on commercials CGI and broken plywood and we haven't even thought about how we're going to run water to the property, and build the pipes.

Somewhere along the line, someone bought advance tickets and he'd built some water slides in the past for very niche water slide enthusiasts, and looked at the progress that wasn't being made and said, "You know, I know a thing or two about water slides and I don't think they can pull this off," and the the CEO of the BDWSE spent hours yelling, "gently caress you gently caress you gently caress you you don't get to ride ANY of my water slides here's your money back," so that guy has spent 2 1/2 years standing outside the water park complex with a bullhorn yelling, "YOU'RE NEVER GETTING THIS poo poo BUILT," and meanwhile die hard fans of the water park who have been hit way too many times in the head by falling plywood have been chucking paper wads at him and built a rickety shack outside the waterpark where they put up a sign saying "THE GUY WITH BULLHORN IS A DOO DOO HEAD" and yelling about how great the waterpark is going to be while watching entire stacks of plywood collapse around them until the person who ran the shack decided to take the shack and go home and declare victory over the bullhorn man.

It's more like that.

Pantsbird posted:

I could almost understand that mentality if CiG was marching in a straight line. With no plan, and grande nerd money, they might end up somewhere nice by accident. Heck, even a random drunken walk would get them further away from their starting position.

Either case would be better than walking in circles, retracing steps. Using a rope to swing across a chasm, only to trek back around the long way so they can retrieve the rope, then head home to get a better rope. The rope is too heavy, so they brought a ladder. The ladder is too short to cross the chasm. Stopping frequently to meticulously etch pebbles into detailed, microscopic figures. This one is a whale, that one a turtle, and those thirty-seven are busts of the crew members on the ship you'll build after crossing the desert, to sail to El Dorado. The intrepid explorers start digging for the ores and the fuels that will make the sharper tools that will carve the even more lifelike figures, and for the gems that will bring them to life. The stones chip too easily, so the party moves on.

Foo Diddley posted:

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

a cargo/trading "gameplay loop" is featured in whatever this segment is now:
Wow, I can't wait to trade all kinds of goods between Port Olisar and... uh...

Well anyway, I'm sure it will be amazing and not a boring tedious grind like Elite

The Titanic posted:

The longer CIG keeps tugging people around by their noses, the more people will eventually widen up. I’d still like to think there are intelligent people out there, and some of them are caught up in this silly Derek war, but when it comes down to it, the product their defending isn’t getting better and the promises keep coming, and yesterday’s promises keep getting further back...

I don’t believe that people can be fooled infinitely. And I know some can, but not over something like a video game. Especially not where the biggest hype it generates constantly is “guess what you can buy next?!”

I think that as people “wake up” to the reality of the situation, they’re going to need to cope with it. Their first instinct probably isn’t going to be “wow I was really wrong and fooled!” It’s going to be more subtle, wherein they “saw it coming but decided to hold out for good measure” and “knew what they were getting into but hoped for the best”.

There will be lots of straws to break camel backs with, don’t worry.

If anything, we’ll have front row tickets to seeing lots of coping mechanisms at work over a fairly petty item. A video game isn’t really something somebody needs to have psychological help over, though it’s possible some people are getting close (some may already have passed it).

But I also think that CIG is taking such a long time to fail that it’s not going to be hard for people to unplug and come to terms. It’s not a sudden thing, but gradual. People will be fine, and at the end of it there will be new friendships and new jokes to laugh at. Eventually everybody splits up and CIG is a cornerstone of how not to crowdsource a video game, or possibly any product.

SomethingJones posted:

They have 68 vacancies on their website, they've been throwing up job ads on Glassdoor and like crazy over the last few weeks, THEY CANNOT HIRE FOR poo poo and it's completely obvious

Look at this - this is a single job listing for multiple roles, all posted today (Nov 20):

Senior Producer – Marketing
• Support the VP, Marketing on the coordination and execution of all global marketing initiatives.

Lead Character Technical Artist
• Work in a team along with the Technical Director of Content, Character Art Director, Lead Technical Artist and Animators to ensure quality and performance are met across all character assets and their development processes

Gameplay Engineer – Service & Backend

Character Artist

Technical Designer

Network Programmer
Location: Wilmslow, Cheshire – UK

Graphic Designer
Location: Wilmslow, Cheshire, UK

And then there's this, posted on Oct 27:

Recruiter Hot Seat: Cloud Imperium Games

How many staff are you looking to take on?

The numbers will increase with the demands of the project, but currently we’re looking to hire upwards of 60 staff across multiple departments in our four international studios of Los Angeles (USA), Austin (USA), Manchester (UK) and Frankfurt (Germany). Some positions are not studio specific although others are; so if anyone is interested they should check out our website for further details.

If anyone who hasn’t done any research on the project then this always comes across the worst. Especially when we are so transparent in our development and have so much information readily available online. After those, people usually fall down due to poor punctuality, bad communication skills or a lack of confidence.

They threw up the animator vacancies on VFXexpress on November 1st:

Senior Animator
Frankfurt, DE

Frankfurt, DE

Lead Animator:
Frankfurt, DE

Senior Animator: Manchester, UK

Animator Manchester, UK

Motion Editor: Manchester, UK

Lead Animator: Manchester, UK

Facial Animator: Derby, UK

They can't even hire audio guys despite having vacancies listed for the entirety of 2017 - this is CRAZY. As well as advertising for audio people in the usual audio job sites look how completely desperate they are (posted Oct 13):
Tweet Summary: #JOBS : @CGJob : Cloud Imperium Game Recruiting Lead & Sr Sound Designer … #audio #sounddesign

And finally you can see the amount of vacancies that appeared literally in the last few weeks (some in the last few days) on JobsNeo:

I can only speak for myself but I see a lot of people walking away from this project - both devs and backers. This is evidenced by:
- the funding chart
- the refunds sub
- posts on Spectrum & SC subreddit
- the state of production, ie what they are putting out to Evocati
- the increase in job vacancies on CIG's website
- the increase in job listings sites being used by CIG
- the increase in recruitment sites being used by CIG

They're sunk.

SomethingJones posted:

Backers are leaving and getting refunds, staff are leaving and CIG can't fill the vacancies, the funding is going down - there's no other way to say it or interpret it, it's clear and straightforward. You can draw a straight line through everything CIG have produced and said and failed at over the last 2 years to arrive at this point. It was inevitable and predictable and here it is right now. No surprise, no drama. Just another failed kickstarter that very few people outside of a shrinking subreddit give any fucks about.

That senior marketing role not being filled says a lot about Sandi, and the way the job description is written says even more about her. That's another job you wouldn't be able to do because of the incompetence and inexperience directly above you.

SomethingJones posted:

SCtrumpHaters posted:

*This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by the content owner.*
this loving sound design. like roaches in your ear
It's loving awful.
The static atmospheric audio sounds like an Amiga game, the little pulsing whiny noise is tiny and tinny and lovely and spiky, and the triggered jet engine sample phases with the atmospheric sound.

Not even amateur hour level, it's pure crap.

Quavers posted:

Q: How’s the FPS lately?
A: I’ve been getting a wide range of frames lately. From as low as 7 FPS in a full server to 65 FPS in a fresh server, my average FPS is about 30 in a 60 player server. To me, that’s a significant improvement from 2.6.3.

Q: How are NPCs coming along?
A: They’re still confined to the player hubs, but they make the hubs feel alive especially Levski. The shopkeepers make comments while you browse and shop, and the space ATC guy sounds like a good guy to hang out with. NPC ships only appear during missions AFAIK. Miles and Ruto are at Levski and GrimHex, respectively, but they’re not enabled yet.

Q: How are the bikes and rover handling now?
A: The Dragonfly is working much better than the Nox lately, while the Ursa rover is much more stable than the bikes. The Dragonfly does better in off-road terrain while the Nox works best on smooth surfaces like the race track at Deakins Outpost. The Nox still tends to flip on its side and turning with the Nox is like riding a stallion without a saddle. There’s still the issue of collision with both bikes and the rover. With the bikes, hitting a boulder on the moon surface sends you flying into the air and flipping uncontrollably. With the Ursa rover, it jumps upward when hitting obstacles and flips over. Parking the bikes into ships is still tricky where they move erratically trying to conform to the larger ship’s internal grid. Parking the rover inside the Connie is less problematic than the bikes, but it tends to slip through the cargo bay floor when closing them. That bug needs to be fixed. With Patch X, the bikes can now strafe up and down and they automatically switch from hover mode to flight mode if you can get high enough above the surface.

Q: How’s ship combat? Did they really buff the Gladius?
A: With a “no PVP unless stated otherwise” rule in ETF and no combat focused testing yet, I don’t know. When CIG states we can test combat among each other and combat/escort missions are fixed, I’ll let you know. The Gladius does have 3x size 3 weapon mounts in 3.0.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 6

==CIG probably going to sell virtual plots of land==

Quavers posted:

Claiming Space: The Race for Land

blah blah blah blah

Recently, there has been a major push to encourage the settlement and development of the Empire’s frontier. As part of this initiative, the PDB has been making additional parcels of land accessible to the public for purchase. It is believed by policymakers that as sectors become more developed, they likewise become more secure. Statistics from recent studies show that it is significantly harder for outlaws and Vanduul raiding parties to gain purchase in UEE-controlled systems when there are settlers and companies with vested interests in ensuring the protection of that territory. Combine this with Consolidated Outland’s recent introduction of a self-contained colonization platform, and many are expecting to see a new golden age of land development in the second half of the 30th century.

Tokamak posted:

"it's a lore post! it's a lore post!!", i continue to insist as i slowly watch evocati leaks and follow the lead up to the holiday sale

Loxbourne posted:

VictorianQueerLit posted:

Hmm, seems like the obsession with Derek and Line of Defense has an almost superstitious effect on the faithful.
Their behaviour is governed by a simple rule, but like single-celled lifeforms and early computer programs, the interaction of large numbers of iterations of a simple rule can produce the illusion of complexity.

Essentially, there are two categories in a serious cultist's mind. GOOD and BAD. Star Citizen is GOOD. Derek Smart is BAD. These two categories are ironclad and never the twain shall meet.

The word "scam" is a BAD thing. But saying "Star Citizen is a scam" makes the cultist lock up; Star Citizen can only be GOOD. Things of the Smart are BAD, therefore anything BAD must be associated with Derek Smart even if CIG are doing it. Otherwise the cultist's brain throws an exception and that hurts.

So Derek must be scamming, because scamming is in the BAD category and Derek is in the BAD category. So the cultist shouts as loudly and as often as possible that Derek is the real scammer because otherwise the cognitive dissonance hurts too much. The most flimsy and ridiculous evidence is marshalled to support this, and other cultists flock to agree because that way they can reassure one another that the rightful order is being upheld. This pattern extends to all possible BAD concepts, like refunds and awkward questions and filthy leavers. It's why the cultists are so obsessed with saying that refunds are actually people scamming CIG. They can understand refunds are BAD and scams are BAD and Derek is BAD, and all these concepts blend together because their critical thinking skills have atrophied so badly they genuinely can't tell the difference anymore. Someone who wants a refund instantly goes into the BAD category and must be a scammer and a goon and a shill and a Derek alt and a spy for Big Publishing and probably a terrorist and a communist too. That's why you get these ridiculous frothing accusations aimed at Derek that read like the citizen has just banged their keyboard and written down every possible bad thing they could come up with. They genuinely have just written down a list of evil-sounding concepts, and in their minds Derek is all of them at once.

This goes the other way as well; it fuels the dreams. Star Citizen is GOOD, and all the ideas of GOOD in the cultist's head get mixed up with it and become the huge dreaming memeplex we're so familiar with. 1000-player dogfights, handheld cargo, massive capital ship battles and total physical realism are GOOD so SC must have them because it too is GOOD and therefore all GOOD things at once.

I honestly think if Derek was struck by a bolt of inspiration and coded an amazing 1000-player capital ship battles patch for Line of Defence , the cultists would actually start claiming it was really in Star Citizen or Derek had somehow stolen CIG's codebase, just to avoid having to think Derek can do a thing that fell into the GOOD category.

Not every Star Citizen has fallen this far, but the really nasty ones have.

You can model this thread along these lines too, to be honest. Our attitude to Sandi and Chris in particular.

Loxbourne posted:

I genuinely believe that if stressed hard enough, you could get a really-far-gone shitizen to claim that a particularly embarrassing piece of Star Citizen footage is actually from Line of Defence.

Toops posted:

Loxbourne posted:

You can model this thread along these lines too, to be honest. Our attitude to Sandi and Chris in particular.
Right cause we don't have any compelling evidence whatsoever that Sandi and Chris suck poo poo.

SomethingJones posted:

Regardless of the reason underlying CIG's failure to fill these posts, they are competing for talent like everyone else and the project is simply not attracting any. Additionally they have failed to retain the talent that they did have.

In case anyone hasn't worked it out, that job is to create promotional material for in-game items - "Help develop brands within the Star Citizen universe, create logos and visual styles that reinforce the game Lore". The vacancy for that post appears right at the same time CIG announce they will start selling plots of land.

It's a giant scam, selling in-game items without a game and without communicating mechanics attached to those items by way of a spec or a plan or a description. It's a total loving scam from back to front.

Lack of Gravitas posted:

Another day, another red X. Chris looks at the calendar on his wall and counts the ever decreasing number of days he has left until a date circled in red. A date that refuses to be delayed by any amount of bugs, blockers, tasks, or refactors.

Too few days left, he thinks. Why won't they just give me a little extra time, why won't they just listen to reason, why won't they just see what I'm trying to do here.

But The Bank will not budge.

With a sigh, he gets up and walks over to a glass box mounted to the wall, and whispers to himself "I guess this is the emergency," before breaking the glass. He pulls out an envelope, cutting his finger on a shard as he does so.

He opens the envelope and unfolds its contents, and a drop of blood falls onto the paper. For a moment he looks at the drop, and thinks how much he has sacrificed. But it doesn't matter now, for this, this is the jpeg that will save the dream.

Rabelais D posted:

BoredGamer gets a good 25-30k views on his daily videos which are just "And you will be able to do this, and then that, and then this, and you will be able to do this cool thing too" over and over. His audience seems to absolutely adore the stream of consciousness dream diarrhoea.

Someone on here said he is the most credulous man to have ever lived, and that may be the case, but he might be just very clever instead, having found a quick and easy way to make reliable money (plus patreon) simply by verbalising digital space game possibilities for ten minutes every day.

ComfyPants posted:

Hi Cloud Imperium Games. It's apparent than in desperation for more cash, you've been trawling the SA forums for any ideas that will turn a commando upside down and shake the pennies out of their pockets. The selling land thing is loving great, and I can't wait to see this hilarity play out.

I have some other ideas that are guaranteed to be winners and bring you in at least hundreds of dollars and I can't wait for you to rip them off:

Robot butlers: When there's just not enough hours in the day to do space laundry or make space food, a robot butler will come in very handy.
Buy your way into space government: Why be a citizen when you could be a senator? While I'm sure there are already plans to allow citizens to play politics in your game, why not sell off an instant political office so a player can start out with a guaranteed spot in government? A small pledge makes you a senator, a large pledge makes you a planetary governor, and for an extra large fee, you can make your position a lifetime term! Exciting!
Toilet bowl cleaners: We all love taking space shits, but some of us spend too much time cleaning our space latrines. For a small wad of cash, you can get a toilet bowl disc that you can drop straight into the tank, making it so much easier.
Porsches: Not space Porsches, but actual Porsches that commandos can drive on the way to their space job. Who needs a pleb buggy when you can drive to the office in style? They'll be very expensive, but you already know that.
Wankpod Porn: Several nice packages of in-game smut for when you just gotta rub one out before saving the galaxy. Many different varieties to choose from, but the high end package will be nude videos and pics of Chris Roberts. Your fans will make you millions.
Dorka Smerk voodoo doll: Something for your commandos to vent their frustrations out on while they're waiting for your dreams to become reality. In no way shape or form similar to any real game developers.
Planets: Why buy land when you can have your own planet? As we all know, planets are easy. Randomize a seed and just flip the procedural switch and you're good to go. For a princely sum, commandos can outright have their own unique planet to rule with an iron fist.
Goon Detector: When the game finally comes out, all of the goons that haven't died of old age will do what goons do. Since you already have in-depth profiles on everyone including goon tags and snowflake tags, you'll know which players are goons, but the commandos won't! Sell them a goon detector that they can carry around so they can run crying from the first goon that comes close to them. Rip off the design from the "Aliens" motion tracker, that shouldn't be too hard.
Custom lines in Squadron 42: Who wouldn't love to hear Admiral Bishop give his stirring speech but also mention that Commando xxL3aveRoyMoor3Alon3xx is the best pilot in the galaxy? Or Old Man Hamill saying to his friends that you're the most handsome and virile man who ever lived? Or have Cara "Web" Webster calling you by name and offering to give you a handy? Dreams like this and more are worth a lot to lonely shut-in nerds, and they'll pay bank for them.
An in-game copy of Star Citizen and Squadron 42: If you could sell a game twice, why wouldn't you? For a real challenge, players can buy a copy of Star Citizen for their commando to play on their space chariot while playing Star Citizen! They can even buy all the packages all over again! You can also sell an optional Kevlar case for them to put their computer in so it doesn't kill anyone when it explodes.

Please use these ideas to keep the funding rolling so that the insanity never stops.

reddit posted:

I have something that is apparently super rare for trade.
My older sister used to work in the industry so I had like, a million Beanie Babies. They are all in storage now, but she gave me one that she told me to keep safe because it was signed. There were only 200 some odd made, and have apparently sold on ebay for over $7,000.
At this point, as cool as it is to have a rare collectible, it has just been sitting on my dresser in it's protective case for like, 15 years, so I would rather have some cool ships.
If anyone is interested or wants pics shoot me an offer. I will ONLY do this as an in person trade in the central valley area of CA.
It has the hard plastic tag protector on it, has never been removed, it also has been sealed in a hard plastic Ty show case for the last 15 years. Mint condition.
The ships I am most interested in are: Carrack Pheonix Avenger Super Hornet 890 Idirs Retaliator
Would also be open to cash offer.

D_Smart posted:

No Star Citizen anniversary live stream this year. Obviously because the much touted, one year late, 3.0 build is completely & flat-out BROKEN; and they simply can't play/show it live.

Don't worry though, that's not going to affect the obligatory end of year JPEG ship sale cash grab.

Seeing as they are most definitely engaging in a Ponzi-like scheme, if you put in for your refund now, they will have money next month to give you. New sales, fund old sales refunds.

Sarsapariller posted:

[quote="ManofManyAliases"]Stfu you insufferable man-baby. This time last year, you called that 3.0 wasn't even happening. No author on the face of this planet could even come close to changing the narrative more times than you have since THE JULY BLOGGGGGGgGGGGggggg.
Are you referring to this time last year when they said it was coming out in December and Derek (and the rest of us) said it wasn't?

And then it didn't?

Beet Wagon posted:

Chairman's Club Newsletter posted:

Finally, Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 is getting closer to a PTU release. We would love for you to help with testing. If you're interested, keep an eye out for an email inviting you to join us. We are expecting to go to PTU before your next concierge newsletter on December 20th.

Last time Chris floated the Dec 19th release was in 2016:

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 7

==3.0 Released to wave1==
wave1 includes seemingly all the streamers, subscription holders, and many concierge members

Combat Theory posted:

Hello thread its time to wake up. 3.0 went public PTU.

Beet Wagon posted:

So far all I'm seeing on reddit is "screenshot of ugly terrain OMG!" and guys... I'm starting to think that maybe, just maybe... well maybe Star Citizen isn't that good?

Quavers posted:

From the announcement:

"The goal of this initial PTU release is to increase our total player count in an effort test concurrency. We also need you to focus on testing the traversal system by quantum traveling, landing on moons, locating and visiting Levski, and just exploring the great expanse of space around Crusader.

Please note that the complete Alpha 3.0 experience is not in this build, as some features are still being implemented and refined. These features will be added to future builds when ready for wider testing."

XK posted:

It's not working.

What isn't?


Drunk Theory posted:

You can bump someone interacting with the ship console and it knocks them out of the menu.

Got my new profession lined up in the Verse by the way.

Milky Moor posted:

There's no way this streamer either isn't aware how broken 3.0 is (given how much he's focusing on walking around and looking at things and not actually doing anything) or he's been coached and/or paid.

The vocal enthusiasm for 3.0 doesn't match the fact that there's no enthusiasm in the playing.

Holy gently caress, they need to drive 37kms to get somewhere at a ridiculous snail's pace. Vehicle physics don't seem to be any different to no-clip starships.
And then the Ursa rover somehow ended up in space.

Milky Moor posted:

It's so weird to me that he opened up the new missions screen, saw like half a dozen entries there, but didn't examine any of them and then went back to walking around in circles talking about how good it is.

That's certainly the behavior I expect of someone who has just gotten his hands on something new and exciting.

Drunk Theory posted:

Glad to see clipping out of the cockpit is still in 3.0. Gotta keep the classics.

SomethingJones posted:

Something Jones 3.0 Live Blog

The buildings to the left and right of the flight path as he lands at Levski are 2d sprites - you can see them sliding around, they aren't attached to the ground. Shadows are baked on. It's quite obvious. e: if someone can grab this that'd be amazing, it's a live stream and I don't know what I'm doing.

So the seamless planetary landing is:
1: You fly to a waypoint in orbit
2: You fly down to the waypoint on the ground

It's a pre-determined flight path.

The travel between planetary bodies is pre-determined as well.

Performance-wise it is running like utter piss, it's really bad.

Mocap NPC at Levski, his hands clip through his body as he emotes, that's allegedly the problem with all of the SQ42 mocap

Single digit frames inside Levski base everywhere

BPM monitor on HUD and Mobiglass don't match

"This game is early access, if you aren't interested in early access it ain't for you"

11-14 fps in Levski pretty much consistently

Background music stuttering badly, .5s gaps of silence in the bg music

"50 players per server now, this has also decreased the fps"

Miles Eckhart NPC not working, wasn't able to interact, "there's really no point in going to Levski right now, you can't do missions right now"

Another player has arrived at Levski, let's see how this works. They arrange to meet at the 14fps statue...

Music is stuttering and skipping with a vengeance now

PLAYER 1 is waiting at the bar, PLAYER 2 is coming down the stairs now...

"Can I live with 15fps? No of course I can't live with 15fps"

PLAYER 3 on chat "It's just crashed on me, I'm gonna leave it there"

PLAYER 2 "It's so laggy it's hard to tell what the gently caress I'm looking at"

PLAYER 2 arrives at bar, PLAYER 1 can't see him
PLAYER 2 on voice chat "Scam! Get a refund!"

PLAYER 2 is trying to interact with Miles Eckhart, PLAYER 1 can see Eckhart interacting but can't see PLAYER 2

Aaaaaand PLAYER 1 exits the game

- end of live blog thanks for listening get a refund -

SomethingJones posted:

Astropub has loaded up an empty Star Marine game now, he gave up with 3.0. Don't blame him, 11-14fps with one other player that he couldn't even see. What a pile of poo poo, no gameplay in sight - like NONE.

You know what, watching that actually put me in the mood for firing up Elite and just doing some random planetary missions and taking the old buggy for a spin in 60fps with superior graphics

trucutru posted:

When the dude clips thru the moon one minute into this you can see which objects are "real" (that is, not part of the moon). So the buildings and the stalagmite-like rock formations are regular 3D objects while the slopes and hills are the ground generated by the planetary tech.

SomethingJones posted:

Ironically the only thing I've seen working in 3.0 are the doors.

Everything else is broken, everything.

Abuminable posted:

Sabreseven posted:

Why do the 'vessel' thrusters sound like Ben chewing the mic?
What does your heart tell you?

Sabreseven posted:

More than 2000 years after the original event, we get to celebrate this very special time of year by watching the Jesus patch being born and then instantly crucified.

It's magical, and I for one am glad that unlike the Romans, we have easy access to plentiful supplies of popcorn.

Mr Fronts posted:

Please let my Christmas stocking be stuffed full of Major Tom 3.0 videos.

ahmini posted:

SCtrumpHaters posted:

Like some posts earlier "He can't even get in to a ship". Then one post later "he clipped through the ground on the moon". Like which is it. You owned yourselves in less than a post. Shits gonna be janky but you are acting like its so much worse than it is.

Troll or not this is a pretty good impression of backer thinking.

They're not gonna be seeing the godawful jank and everything being broken, they're going to be blown away by the fact that they can do something other than wander around a single space station. The mere fact they have an update with "3.0" printed on it (irrespective of it being nothing like the original scope of 3.0) is enough to claim victory over derek smart Derek Smart DEREK SMART

We'll see $200million out of this dumpster fire yet!

ahmini posted:

However, you can't deny that's exactly what the shills are thinking right now. They're so desperate for good news that literally any update (even a horribly broken one that is mostly unplayable) will be heralded as the next coming of Christ.

CRobbler unexpectedly squeezing this large turd out to PTU before it's even remotely ready is a loving genius move and SC backers are dumb enough to fall for it every single time.

Kainser posted:

Looks like Roberts won, time to wrap it up goonailures.

G0RF posted:


This will never not make me laugh.

It’s one of the early sketch comedies CIG created during the post Wingman early ATV era, usually as a lead-in for a short-lived series “Sandi Goes To Flight School”.

It was a botched attempt to make Sandi appear more likeable in “she’s a gamergirl!” kind of way. But Sandi’s visible unease with both acting and Star Citizen itself was simply unmistakable. It was bad enough even CIG realized they were pushing their luck, as only goons looked forward to the next installment.
So they phased it out without comment and slowly started dialing her persona back to something more natural to her — disinterested news reader patronizing a viewership she’ll be happy to kick to the curb as soon as she gets her big Hollywood break and becomes relevant to a demographic with greater social currency.

Any day now.

G0RF posted:

Twerk just now: “i really want to show you guys missions — hopefully they fix the mission system. I was unable to complete every mission... except for the dookie one — where you pick up poo poo.”

G0RF posted:

Having watched several streams my $6 million prediction remains but now for the refunds sub.

Daztek posted:

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

So basically CIG decided that the best way to maintain enthusiasm funding was to show just how hosed they are publicly?

They saw how the thread was doing and decided to help us out

Goredema posted:

In 2022, Star Citizen will be in a "Failed Kickstarter" Humble Bundle, with the soundtrack as a free bonus, and customers will be asking to buy the soundtrack without the game included.

"But you don't have to activate the Star Citizen game code..."

"Nah, you take it back. I don't want it listed in my library of available games."

"But you can listen to the soundtrack without playing the game!"

"Nah, it's my money. Kill Jester."

Would you like to be? Apply now, and you could be CIG Lead Structural Designer within a few months!

trucutru posted:

It has a much better fly model. Just check this poo poo out!

Worth Clicking:

Some Squadron 42 audio was leaked in the 3.0 download
Warning: BORING In game talkshow (proprietary rivets!?)

Quavers posted:

The leaked audio file, reuploaded:

XK posted:

Thanks for the audio. I needed to go to sleep early tonight. This is perfect.

reddit's definitive Star Citizen 3.0 bug survival guide posted:

4. General server desync.
Problem: The SC servers are being stress tested and are failing the test. Even during the midnight hours when no one in your region is playing, there will still be desync until the developers fix the problem. This particular issue is causing SEVERAL other issues you will encounter.

6. Doors won't open, the context menu won't come up
Problem: I've encountered this several times, especially when the desync is bad. Try looking at the open-pad on the door holding F from several different angles, and if that fails try another door. Also make sure that you have armor, and an undersuit equipped because you can't go outside in a T-shirt. If that fails, you are poo poo out of luck.

7. I went to go sit down on a bench, and now I can't get up because there is no option.
Problem: You sat on the bench, now you're hosed.
Solution: You can't even kill yourself on this one (ALT + Delete). You have to go back to menu, then sit through that agonizing load-in (if there's even room for you in the server).

9. I took too long to get in my ship that I spawned at Port Olisar and the station spawned another ship INSIDE of mine.
Solution: Run, run far away as quickly as you can. It looks funny, but walking up to observe this catastrophe will crash your game.

11. I started climbing a ladder and now I'm stuck.
Problem: You'll get onto the ladder then it'll be impossible to get off. Well, you can but the game will like yank you back onto it.
Solution: After getting to the top or bottom of a ladder, stop giving input. Your character might stand still and you'll be freed from the clutches of the ladder. If not, try giving no input for just a little bit, then spamming movement keys.

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Nov 25, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 8

Pantsbird posted:

I've managed to fit 8 deskeletonized children into one SCU. They are arranged facing out from the center (they each understand they are alone). The largest ones are in the corners. Some of them will die, but it's normal so long as it doesn't happen too soon into the journey because they are Meat. Place into the refrigerated portion of the Cargo Grid that will kill the rest of them because they are Meat. Stack the partially skeletonized Slaves (bones relevant to Functions) in the corners of the hold and in the corridors so they don't occlude the Cargo Grid and prevent Commodities loading.

You are next. Duck your head so the box can close. You will be treated as Dead so the player can Respawn. Stat points are withdrawn. You don't whimper to avoid suffering the indignity of betraying distress to yourself. The box is ventilated your soul will linger for as long as possible before the Air Conditioning.

gently caress poo poo piss. Bitch bitch bitch bitch angler shunt bitch. Bitch, the children will die when they pick up the Rock. The children will die when they flee from the Rock. The albino children will be taken to be raised properly in a healthy, nurturing environment and groomed for the Professions. If the mother resists she will be put down. If the mother flees her legs will be removed.

For those Outside you have at hand at least one instrument or circumstance (a high place, a bottle of pills, a large quantity of liquor, etc) that will end you with little effort. You've known this would happen for some time. All of your responsibilities are relieved. The Org is grateful for your service.


GORF posted:

Disclosures upfront:
1) I have never told another person to get a refund, though I’m friends with many who have, including Beet. I do however support backers’ rights to seek them for non-delivery of promised gameplay features.
2) I am a frequent poster on SomethingAwful, I (re)joined in early 2015, in large part due to my personal respect for Beer4theBeerGod, who at the time was responsible for some of the most incisive pieces of constructive criticism offered to CIG on their own forums. (He was also the SC thread moderator on SA at the time.)
3) I have had occasional interactions with present and past staff. This has only reinforced my previously held and exceedingly dim opinions of senior leadership.

I take as a given that Star Citizen will fall woefully short of the hopes raised for it by the claims of Chris Roberts and the cinematic fundraising teasers created under his direction by CIG. Whether the game fails catastrophically (such as by bankruptcy and shutdown) or fails by delivering a half-baked, underwhelming fraction of its promised Kickstarter features, failure seems a far safer bet than anything resembling success.
Chris Roberts is a man of overrated talents and underestimated mendacity. At this point even his most fierce defenders admit he has what might charitably be called an “overpromising / underdelivering” problem, yet neither skeptic nor believer would ever accuse him over having an over-apologizing problem, for he is a man incapable of the act.
Exaggerated claims, missed release dates, and outright falsehoods have been his stepping stones over the last five years to profound personal enrichment for himself and his formerly secret wife and yet his conscience is untroubled by his inability to deliver upon the promises that have proven so personally profitable to him.
Perhaps at this point it might seem I’m being overly harsh, so let me offer some helpful documentation to help better illustrate what I see as proof of his pathological practices:
1) Alpha 3.0 Infographic - Measuring the alpha against prior public claims by Chris Roberts
2) Star Marine - A Timeline of Noteworthy Events
3) Chris Roberts states that Squadron 42 will “probably” release this year (though CIG hadn’t yet started getting mocap footage in game, hadn’t finished major assets, still had no A.I. then and still has no A.I. now.)
I could go on at greater length than you might believe. His lies are a Tower of Babble twisting towards the heavens like the foolish ziggurat of legend — defiant, deluded and worthy of divine judgment.
For his character defects alone, he should not succeed, yet we live in a fallen world where wretched men of cunning actually are advantaged in their pursuits by virtue of not having to abide by ethics or altruism.
Yet Roberts is no such person, for what he lacks in character he lacks even moreso in competence. In his role as Chairman and Chief Executive of Cloud Imperium Games, his role demands of him to be a Macro-manager — yet he shrinks from such demands to instead thrive as one of the gaming industry’s all time masters in Micromanagement.
Consider what this article reveals about Roberts profound deficiencies as the chief project manager for the organization:
Kotaku UK: Inside the Troubled Development of Star Citizen
It is a lengthy read yet gives you absolutely everything you need to know about his priorities and his insufficiencies. Pay particular mind to the section that reveals for the first time what actually went wrong with Star Marine.
Mind you, consider this in the context of the “Just A Game Mode” Timeline above. In doing so you will see that Chris Roberts scolded backers for raising questions about a wildly late gaming module that he himself knew at the time was already trashed due to CIG’s terrible oversight of the outsourced development!”
There you have it — Chris’s deficiencies of competence and character on perfect collaborative display, and like the vain, entitled fool he is, rather than apologize (for the terrible guidance, for not better managing the funds backers had given him when outsourcing a key project, etc.), he shrugs the matter off and washes his hands of any real blame and expects backers to do the very same.
There are other ways to approach the question, “Why might the project fail?”
Another might focus on the backassward development priorities of Chris Roberts — who has overseen countless revamps and rebuilds of in-game assets while ignoring game loops and core mechanics....
Yet still others might point towards the rising overhead and falling revenues, the potential death spiral caused by projecting endless growth when you’re too arrogant to see you’re building a niche game, have saturated the niche market with no hopes of a crossover to the mass market due to purist design choices that exclude them...
But as for me, I feel the best argument against Star Citizen’s success — and by that I mean that the game delivers on prior promises made of it — is the fact that Roberts has spent the last 5 years perfecting the art of enrichment while falling so far short of his claims and yet he somehow sees a genius worthy of the faith and funds of others looking back at him in the mirror.
Whatever his past triumphs, he like his very game itself is built on the emptiest and most unstable of foundations. His word is worthless, his vision myopic, and his conscience deafened by voices of vanity forever shouting “you are the GREATEST DEVELOPER EVER” in his ear.
Whatever else he might be, such a person, no matter his age, has failed to truly become a man just as surely as Star Citizen will fail to truly become a game.

SomethingJones posted:

I'm taking a moment here to enjoy the comparison between G0rf's stylish, rhythmic, dramatic, sharp writing in a couple of transient reddit posts to Chris Roberts' trashy dialogue committed to tape by trained actors.

IcarusUpHigh posted:

I need to stop following this project before i have a brain aneurysm.

Just when you think it can't, it simply CAN'T get any more money and suck any more people in, they defy expectations.

Reading that /r/Games thread, so many defenders of the earth, so many defenders of the saviour. It's an army. An impossibly stupid army that's so resolute in its conviction that it simply cannot be stopped, shouting down every dissenting opinion with "you know nothing about games development" and "good things take time!".

I get stoopider every day reading Star Citizen fan comments. They make more money and the charade continues.

Anticheese posted:

I applied to CIG for a copywriter position they had advertised earlier in the year partially because I was offended by the quality of prose on display, and partly because I really want to turn far too many years of writing and editing into profit. When I checked back a long time after to see what was up (I didn't even get a rejection letter from an HR robot) they denied that there was ever such a listing after making me get an account on their HR system.

Chris Roberts eats his editorial staff.

Xaerael posted:

I like how howls of "You'll see how wrong you are when 3.0 lands!" have turned back into "It's alphaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!"

G0RF posted:

I think lowballing predictions on sale revenues — as depicted by the tracker — presumes too much about Roberts’ personal character.

Annual revenues are perhaps the single most important metric there is when setting forward-looking narratives of expectation and backward-looking assessments of historic trends. And as the year-end nears, the season of such assessments returns — for backers, the media and the broader gaming public at large.

Having already made the history books...
Having blown past years of worth deadlines...
Having made hugely embarrassing gaffes in their highest profile events...
Having experienced in-depth media critiques of their various development problems...
Having become an industry whisper-net case study “File Under: Here lies Chris Roberts, again”
Having lost the benefit of the doubt and presumptions of triumphant success...
Having given indicators of waning demand via the same tracker for the majority of the year...

CIG approaches the year-end in an extremely vulnerable state. Without Herculean course-corrections, they face the very real prospects of ending the year with a marked decline in revenues. The development of both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 already appear victims of development hell — the absence (again) of Squadron 42 despite claims by Roberts (again) it was nearing release is bad enough. The ICU state of the prematurely born yet 10 months late 3.0 only darkens their optics further.

Putting aside whatever their short term financial needs are, the success of the Anniversary Sale is therefore of paramount symbolic importance. A narrative of declining fortunes and waning public demand is widely-presumed and already much discussed. It hasn’t yet become the lede for their story, yet the presumptions are widespread that such a chapter is due to begin in their tale — too much do they now resemble past archetypical development hell DOAs.

Given CIG’s absolute control without oversight of their sales ticker and given Chris Roberts complete ethical bankruptcy, does anyone seriously believe he would sit idly by and let organic demand as reflected by an honest tracker dictate his entire future? If private manipulations can escape the scrutiny of their backers and the media, postpone his overdue public reckoning and preserve the confidence of his most critical financial supporters, does anyone really believe this pathological deceiver would not pursue them?

As with every word that spatters and spittles out of his mouth, I just find that very hard to believe. If ever there was a time to bend truth towards his warped intentions, it is now. His need to preserve his colossal ego and the massive self-deluding distortion field that protects it from unvarnished reality has never been greater and where there’s a will, there’s a way.

The tracker is his last chance after an inarguably lousy year to tell the tale anew, and I believe Chris Roberts would move Heaven and Earth to ensure that the tale it will tell is the very same one no less than Daztek himself often repeats.

”Star Citizen is good.”

(I could of course be wrong but that’s how I feel.)

VictorianQueerLit posted:

I like how the most visible "professional" star citizen streamer is talking endlessly about the games he really likes to play like Warframe.

"This has been my off-stream obsession for weeks now"

No they aren't being paid to struggle through a barely working tech demo to try and sell millions of dollars of lies, why would you think that? This is just a cool dude playing the game he loves and not at all a job.

He's better at pretending he doesn't hate the game than WTFOSaurus though. That guy looks like a prisoner of war all the time.

Pantsbird posted:

I was watching WFTOsaurus the other day and, honest to God, I didn't know that the Twitch streamers can see the comments on the right side (I thought it was just for spectators to chat in, and that the streamers got their questions and comments through a different system).

So I asked in the chat 'how much do these internet beggars get paid?' Then WTFO makes a disgusted face and tells me to gently caress off, and bans me. I almost fell out of my chair, I was so surprised the man in the TV had suddenly said my name. Like imagine if you were watching Oprah and Oprah looked at you from out of the screen and spoke at you directly.

He looked sad for the rest of the stream. I hope it wasn't because what I said.

Abuminable posted:

From today's video about the bounty hunting profession:


What we'll be doing in the future is releasing bounty hunting mechanics that will be focused on, uhh, subduing the player or actually, umm, when you kill them and getting, umm, payment back [hard edit] In the future when you subdue a player, the idea would be that you would take their body, umm, put them into the cargo hold or into the, the stasis, umm, containers that we have and then, uhh, basically deliver them to the Advocacy Office for your payment and that payment will be different than if you actually kill them and then, uhh, return them that way.

So, if a player is captured, umm, and then they are taken back to the Advocacy Office, the idea would be that you are waking up inside a prison and at that point you will have to serve your time. So whether that is, uhh, breaking rocks or doing other menial tasks around the prison, umm, then you'll have to do that or you can risk, uhh, actual jail break, and, uhh, if you and your friends want to try to break yourself out and then from there you'll continue as a wanted man.

Kromgart posted:

Judging from the recent streams, the new "Ship Boarding 3.0" tech is in and is very consistent now.

Worth Clicking:

Players just need to get used to the new mechanics!

Milky Moor posted:

so apparently you don't have enough fuel to actually fly to the planet without using the FTL method

it's just disguised instances

Quavers posted:

Two hours of trying and this noob Citizen finally gets on a Nox without it crashing...

Worth Clicking: (Space bike spins out of control and explodes)

CrazyLoon posted:

"And...and keep in mind I have actually paid...PLAYED...every single patch"

AP posted:

intardnation posted:

So have CIG changed to every time frame possible now then and missed them all? How is that possible?

"[url= posted:

I know it's an alpha and furthermore a Test server on an alpha game but i think they really should'nt release it before a good month at least.
Here my feedback on my first hour, i am curious about yours.
The moons are just loving ugly. The rocks have nintendo 64 textures. The game is way too bright, you cant see poo poo when it's plain day.
It's bug as HELL. The starmap keeps constantly poping. Your ship is flying backward when you are pressing the interact mode while trying to land (and it's not a config problem)
The starmap is horrible. it's one of the worst interface i seen in my life on video games. When you select a mission, the game dont tell you where you are supposed to go so you have to check everyyyyy moon to look at every angle to see if you find the name mentionned in the mission. it's really really annoying The "set to destination" just dont work. and you can't never clearly understand if the location you are aiming is one side or ther other side of the moon.
Fuel is consumed way too fast. you can't do 2 consecutive mission witouth having to refuel your ship.

G0RF posted:

That moon looks so incredibly cinematic. It's like I'm watching a scene from a movie...

TheAgent posted:

oh and also


Wing Commander IV - $10 million - A 1996 Texas Monthly profile claimed the space combat sequel had a $10 million budget. Of that $10 million, $8.5 million was spent on live-action video sequences, according to Jamie Russell's Generation Xbox.
so yeah, pretty sure 80% or more of Star Citizen's budget is going directly to finance cutscenes


Scruffpuff posted:

Variable 5 posted:

I just watched a fat person wearing cat ears stare at the keybindings for a couple of minutes, get stuck in a doorway, and run a memory defragmenter (how is that even a thing) a bunch of times before I closed Twitch again while the comments were all singing the game’s praises.

This thing is never going to die.
It's true. This is a religion now, not a game. You're witnessing the birth of Scientology Lite. In a manner of speaking, Derek is indirectly responsible for this being elevated into immortality in the way it has. You can't have God without a Devil.

Had Derek never bothered getting involved, the game would be dead right now. But the humor would have never reached these levels, and CIG would not have created a voluntary online pedophile quarantine zone. So I think it's probably a net gain.

Tokamak posted:

We're having fun, we're having fun!! said the bowtie man as they fail to get a couple of space bikes into the ship hold.

Beet Wagon posted:

big problems with phantom players, apparently. None of the Relay crew can see each other.

Tokamak posted:

Take this patch, but beware it carries a terrible curse!
Ooh, that's bad.
But it comes with improved netcode!
That's good.
The netcode is also cursed.
That's bad.
But you get your choice of ships.
That's good!
The ships contain game breaking bugs. ...That's bad.
Can I play now?

trucutru posted:

G0RF posted:

Worth Clicking: (video: Clicks door, dies immediately)

I truly don't understand. I mean, what kind of hyper-pushover do you have to be to be fed poo poo for 5 years and still be all peppy and "gee, what a cute little bug"?. Like, what the gently caress, you have paid thousands of dollars for the experience, at least demand piss.

citizen posted:

Eat your words doubters
Holy insert any word you like 3.0 is astounding, to all the doom Sayers on the development of this game i hope many of you have been silenced and will now finally get back on board and support this project. REDACTED The years of hard work and dogged determination have finally started to bear fruits am i a fanboy hell yeah. have i had my gripes hell yeah to that but the one thing that has never wavered is my love of this. i have gone through a number of emotions and probably still will as a human that is my nature. but along the way i have seen many things this game inspires drives and consumes   in some cases many peoples lives its not just a game its a family a community a journey and one that, through all of us will play out, the sheer depth and love in this project when you really take the time to look is like no other game i have seen. I tip my hat to each and every one of you and thank you all for the experience that has become and is my star citizen journey.

==FailureToReports gg video==

Sarsapariller posted:

Combat Theory posted:

Video: (30minutes) (FailureToReport - this is pretty much the end for Star Citizen and I. I officially feel zero attachment to this project.)

its worth the watch

GORF posted:

You should watch the video — he went from cautious skeptic to firebreathing warlord-in-training after finally playing 3.0. It’s a rage-a-thon that pulls no punches, most of them aimed right at Chris Roberts glass jowl.

Abuminable posted:

I watched the entire video. He made some great points, but the problem with FTR is his bipolar behavior. He's done, done, done with SC... until he's not -- and then we're back to a lovefest all over agin.
I'll be honest, I was only able to get about halfway through it. I mean I'm glad the dude is woke up, but... I could do without personalities like that championing the anti-SC cause. The kind of foul-mouthed tantrumming focus on little glitches and inconveniences is funny, but I think it dilutes the general message that this game is a scam. They know they can't make it, but they're lying to their employees, backers, investors, and themselves. That's the scandal here- people can excuse bugs and glitches all day, and if they're fixed it's likely that this guy will flip back. But the heart of the Star Citizen outrage is that CIG is selling something they can never make, and they know it.

XK posted:

He directly calls Chris Roberts a narcissistic fat faced gently caress.


"I feel like I just watched someone kill my toddler son in front of me like real slow and torturously"

XK posted:

I'm playing that FailureToReport guy's Twitch streams from last night on my second monitor while doing some work (They're around 7 hours). I can see why he's so loving pissed in that video. This stream is a nightmare.

In this portion of the stream, he continued with still being held hostage for 5 minutes by the new nemesis, the ladder. Then he and a friend managed to meet up at Olisar, after the friend getting killed the first time by the landing pad. This is where I noticed the stars are twinkling like strobe lights. Then they went to Daymar, and spent 30 minutes flying in atmosphere trying to reach a mining colony, when all of sudden the ship just fell out of the sky and started skipping across the ground. They ran out of fuel, and had no idea because there's too much glare and too little contrast to read any of the displays.

FailureToReport starts posting in the thread.

FailureToReport posted:

Is this where I go to buy all the space ships?

FailureToReport posted:

Between EVERY Evocati tester I know saying they are completely shocked CIG released 3.0 to PTU, the fact that it just magically happened as the Anniversary Sale kicked off, the price increases for no other reason than they talked about some of the ships in a video, a dozen other shady things CIG has done this year, playing 3.0 was officially the end for me. I'm done making videos about it, I'm done playing it and I'm done backing it.

FailureToReport posted:

if I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone tell me I "don't understand game development" I'd be able to afford some sweet rear end JPEGs or one Ben Lesnick dinner order.

FailureToReport posted:

It's honestly legit cult levels

Then gets into an internet argument with Derek and you can guess how that goes.

Loxbourne posted:

The whales don't want the penalty mechanics for them. The whales want the penalty mechanics for the filthy poors they're going to lord it over on release.

There's always been a juuuust-stated implication that the full verse will be full of peons to beat aside with your riding-crop or enslave to man your turrets and scrub your hot tub. That's the just fate of all the faithless masses who didn't back early but will buy in when they see the divine glory of Star Citizen when it finally hits the high street. CRoberts sold it free with every early starter package, every big ship...he sold it again with the Pioneer with "orgs will seek you out if you own one of these". Buy more ships or it might be you too!

trucutru posted:

Take for instance that Fandred1 character. Two days ago he was bitching about the game non-stop, bitching about CIG allowing other people to play the game and how that was complete bullshit, and fantasizing about becoming a "goon". Today? After subscribing to get access to the game other people can't play? Total 180, he's in loving Nirvana.

Toops posted:

You're missing something important: Not even under ideal network conditions would these systems function correctly. All of the useless, annoying fidelity isn't technologically feasible in an MMO architecture. What makes it more hilarious is that Star Citizen doesn't even have an MMO architecture, it's still pretty basic multi-player FPS netcode, with some flagrant hacks to support big maps. All the cringeworthy animation triggers need to be synced. Ships' rotating modular components, ladders, doors, ramps, elevators, chair slides, landing gear animations, fuckin' kick rear end helmet flips, all that needs to be synced. The collisions are permanently broken because their models and colliders are too complicated. Their poly count is still way too high.

And to top it all off.... there is no gameplay. None of the things above support gameplay. The things that are breaking the game are only there because Chris Roberts is an imbecile and thinks they're cool, and all that stupid, complicated fluff is the only thing in the game. I mean, they spent all this time getting "render to texture" working so they could display picture-in-picture with "high fidelity" but trading, mining, bounty hunting, repair, salvage, exploration, aliens, etc... still afterthoughts.

And don't even get me started on the flight model.

Scruffpuff posted:

Nothing about Star Citizen works on any level. Just pick a single aspect - it can be anything, really - and think about it for more than 1 minute and congratulations: you've discovered that Star Citizen can't be made.

Example: Let's say they managed to get their "100 people on a server" (ROFL - work with me.) World of Warcraft has around 100 zones, not counting instances. If everyone spread out, they'd never run into another player.

Ah, but Star Citizen is not WoW, it's a living breathing universe world. It has planets and moons and stars and shitloads of space everywhere - totally realistic because of fidelity. (Let's skip the rather obvious fact that fidelity, which is how closely something resembles reality, cannot be applied to things that are not real.) Houston, TX has a little over 2 million people. That's 1 city. If there were 100 people in the city, they'd only see each other occasionally. Houston is just a dot on the map of Texas, which contains it. If 100 people lived in Texas, they might literally never see each other unless they started out together and stayed that way. Texas is one state, the US is one country, etc. etc.

100 people.

Now add just the meager amount of "content" Star Citizen has - what, a space station? A "moon"? Whatever generic absolute garbage Chris and his team of invalids shat out, imagine spreading out 100 people across it. He thinks he's going to create what, quintillions of NPCs to fill in this crap?

100 players. They can't even get that many on and working, but just think about the ridiculously low population that is at any rate. So if he can't get more than 100 people in an instance, what's the solution? Spinning up even more loving universes, all with their own "millions of subsumpion AI" NPCs sitting around in their virtual wank pods?

At what point does Chris realize that he's proposing a virtual reality that's infinitely larger than the goddamned Matrix? Did he think that film was a documentary, and that the guys who build the Matrix just weren't thinking big enough?

Nothing in this game works. Not conceptually, and not literally. What exactly this game would be, how it would play out, what parts would be built and which not, and deciding on the gameplay surface area should have been locked down before Chris even opened his Sloth-like face and asked for his first penny. But it didn't, so now a collection of pedophiles and malcontents are waiting for Captain Fuckstick to deliver the impossible.

Even the name "Star Citizen" is goddamned stupid, and just oozes "Heaven's Gate" cult-speak.

Pantsbird posted:

I don't know if it's been explained here, so here goes.

Lets say that your ship position variable has enough precision for 1000 steps across the universe. So, each X/Y/Z dimension has 1000 places a object can be placed. Objects cannot be placed between steps. Bigger universes require more steps.

The way decimal numbers work in programming is, the closer you are to 0, the smaller the steps are. This makes sense because, reasonably, numbers near 0 will be far more likely to be used than numbers at the extreme edge of the scale. Near 0,0,0, the steps might only be a millimeter big. at 700, 700, 700 the steps might be over a meter. If you fly your spaceship near 0,0,0, the ship can be placed more or less exactly where it's supposed to be.

If you fly your spaceship to the outer reaches of the coordinate system, the steps become bigger. So, when the pieces of your ship are nailed down onto the steps, they don't fit quite right. 64 bits gives you a lot of steps, but they still get bigger at long distance from 0,0,0. If the size of a step is, say, a meter, then the parts of your ship might be up to a meter incorrect in their apparent position. The ship looks like it's coming apart at the seams. The easiest way to do this in most games is to fall through the world. Once you fall low enough on the Y axis, you'll start to see the vehicle come apart.

This gets worse when you consider that ship parts are connected to each other in a hierarchy, and each part position is expressed relative to it's parent. So, your fuselage is connected to the object root, the wings are connected to the fuselage, the guns are connected to the wings, etc. This means every part has a position inaccuracy up to a full meter for each parent hierarchy level above it.

So this is why, for example, the guns on that ship, and the winglet, at really screwed up, but the core of the ship is mostly ok. Note that these parts will be jittering like crazy every frame, as the game tries to nail each piece down onto the steps that happened to be nearest at that moment in time.

There is no way to fix this, as any size variable will lose precision near the edges. It's proper to simply not use big numbers for positions. For example, you could divide your universe into a grid of cells, and then store the position of objects relative to the center of the cell they are in. This would keep the position numbers small. You might also store your ship's universal position in one coordinate system, but the actual ship model parts would have a position relative to that universal position, so position numbers of the things you can actually see around you would remain small (I think KSP does something like this). In a game like the original Starfox and Starfox II, the coordinate system only had something like 256 (or 1024?) steps in each direction. So, the player's ship was basically the center of the coordinate system, and everything else in the world had to be expressed relative to it.

edit: It's also possible that some parts of the game still use 32 bit position steps (like in physics?), and they get converted to 64 bits at various points. This will break it even more. Rather than come up with an elegant solution from the beginning, CiG has been hacking in additional precision in stages as they make their tech demo bigger. It will continue to cause problems until they gut it completely, which they won't and can't do.

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Dec 19, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 9

Colostomy Bag posted:

D_Smart posted:

3.0 is such a poo poo-show, I don't even want to write about it.
This is the end times.

The Titanic posted:

alf_pogs posted:

i see a lot of tweets chock full of reasons why star citizen is great and still coming out and derek is the worst, but i don't see a lot of cool star citizen gameplay videos
This has been The Star Citizen Paradox for a few years now. Lots of photos, lots of renders of high definition models, lots of weird commentary about how complete and great the game is... but nothing to actually back those claims up.

Better check trusted news outlet pixelemonade to see if they’ve broken this case wide open yet.

The Titanic posted:

trucutru posted:

Maybe modelling the ships as hundreds of components that have to be individually synchronized across the network for all players was not the best idea?
No, that’s definitely not it. That would imply Chris Roberts is a dipshit who doesn’t understand basic networking and video game practices for handling objects.

It’s definitely some other person who failed to do what Chris’ Golden advice said to do and went off on her or his own.

Scruffpuff posted:

The major misconception from backers is that they're trying to compare Star Citizen to game publishers, and Chris Roberts to a game developer. These are very dangerous assumptions. In competent companies run by competent individuals, bugs like this show up early, and get fixed over time.

The backers are applying this pattern to Star Citizen, assuming these are bugs that will be fixed over time.

What we have with Star Citizen is the opposite situation. It's a horribly-written, badly-coded, Chris-Roberts-Ineptly-Micromanaged disaster that gets weaker and weaker every time they try to do something meaningful with its peanut-brittle foundation. This game isn't going to get "fixed over time." This game is loving terminal, and all they're doing is a Weekend at Bernie's act with it.

XK posted:

(“RSI”, “we”, “us”, “our”). If you would like to contact us or make a complaint about any of the RSI Services, please contact us by mail at the foregoing address or via email:
They literally attempted the wrong company defense because people contacted CIG instead of RSI, yet they've joined the two together for customer service right here.

Rad Russian posted:

Haha MoMA was seriously in here defending the shell companies as typos? Yes a normal, decent, non-scamming company, with good customer service will reply to a CIG email with:
"We're sorry but our sister company RSI handles these kinds of requests so we forwarded your request to them! Have a nice day!"
and not with:
"It looks like your purchase was from different company that we have no association with. This here is CIG and we don't sell any space ships here. Bye".

gently caress off MoMa.

AP posted:

2.0 wasn't very good and bumped their daily (non sale days) income from ~30k to ~70k for about 3 months. That was two years ago though, are Citizens dumb enough to fall for it a second time?


Mangoose posted:

Every stream I check out I accidentally read chat and always see some loving dickhead going "This game has more content than Battlefront 2/Skyrim/Witcher 3/almost any other game ever and it's only in alpha!"

Meanwhile I'm watching some loving guy running around a dead base trying to find a door to the hangar where his ship is for 20 minutes. Then he clips through the railing of a starcase he's on and dies from blood loss moments later.

Comments like that make me unreasonably angry. What loving content, you little turd? It's a loving insult to developers who spend years crafting interactive worlds with complete gameplay loops. No one actually gives a gently caress how many Skyrims you can fit in the puckered anus-crater of a lovely planetoid devoid of life, because it's only surface area. You can fit a billion Star Citizen into Elite: Dangerous, and people still grow tired of that game after 30 hours.

If I had to have this discussion with an actual person in real life it would immediately result in a hectic argument and I wouldn't stop until we were physically fighting. And yes, I own the fact that I'm the psycho in this scenario.

Loxbourne posted:

Whenever the SC community is confronted with painful reality, there's always a golden period of a few days before the narrative reforms where the Citizenry have to deal with the simple day-to-day reality of what they've sunk their money into. poo poo don't work. You can tell yourself it's the best drat space sim ever as you sit on a black screen for 15+ minutes and then clip through the floor again, but it starts to sound hollow and that opens up a huge dark yawning pit in even the most cultish citizen's soul. So the community goes oddly quiet. The usual suspects actually shut up (right now they're switching between awe at the streamer vids and stewing with rage over still not being sufficiently devout to be blessed by the Crobbler with alpha access).

CIG themselves have worked this out. The edited version of a presentation video usually serves this role. Even the Gamescon ramp disaster was followed up a few days later by a sanitised video so the cultists could tell themselves "that's what I really saw, not what those filthy refunders said I saw". Then they can pledge more and Buy More Ships secure in the knowledge that the painful world they glimpsed momentarily was a lie that has been washed away.

What will ultimately kill Star Citizen and turn the mob on CIG (assuming the money doesn't run out) is when the reality of the game is so bad that there aren't any kernels left to reform around. That might well be because CIG have shat out an MVP and don't bother followups, or it might be because of some kind of slip-up or misjudgment.

PederP posted:

An amusing thing about the whole subsumption thing, is the wildly optimistic expectations many seem to have for it. It's just a variation of an old school behavior tree, but explicitly without a world model. So these NPCs have no memories, do not have any abstract processing of the world (or even their basic surroundings), etc. It's all lizard-brain. Behavior trees in combination with scripting has been at the core of game AI for decades. There is nothing revolutionary or innovative about it. But CIG certainly hasn't dispelled the backer notion that subsumption is cutting-edge AI. I'd be fine with them stating they had an ambition to create cutting-edge AI, but they're talking about it like they have this special subsumption sauce, that's gonna make all the difference. It's complete nonsense and deceptive marketing.

Daztek posted:

Well, that didn't last long, CIG released a patch and FTR is firmly back in the Star Citizen camp

Sarsapariller posted:

So I guess the Banu Merchantman is back up for sale today? Just yesterday they put out some turret ship for $600 that nobody had ever seen before, and it was already in-engine with truckloads of beauty shots and will probably be out in the coming months. But the BMM is 4+ years old and they don't even have new concept art for it. How can anyone who bought that ship originally be okay with that? Why the hell would anyone buy one today? It kind of feels like most of the remaining old ships just got dropped in a memory hole, except they keep selling them.

Sarsapariller posted:

The weirdest thing, to me, is the actual size of the moons. They're all really tiny, like just a few hundred km in size, and it seems like the only reason for that is that some moron decided to distinguish the game from Elite Dangerous by only having two flying speeds- quantum travel, and dogfighting speed. You have to fly around the planets at dogfighting speed where it takes literally 10-15 minutes to get anywhere, and if you use afterburners you'll run out of fuel in a couple of minutes. So instead they made all the moons super small but with earthlike atmosphere and gravity.The whole thing reeks of bad design decisions compounding each other.

Scruffpuff posted:

nobody who backed Star Citizen in any way, shape, or form was paying for CIG to develop the game.
They were paying CIG to figure out how to develop the game. It sounds like a semantic difference but it's not.

CIG further muddies the waters by claiming that they're "pushing the limits", or "aiming high". There's a distinct difference between "aiming high", and "being too dumb to know what's feasible and what's stupid" and that's a difference Chris Roberts certainly does not grasp.

Another smoke bomb they like to drop is that they have to "invent new tech" to achieve their "vision." You've heard plenty of this bullshit so far - subsumption, server mesh, inner thought, etc. Some people, myself included, think it's just a way to hide the fact that they're reinventing the wheel, but I've started to think there may be more to it than that. When you're building a cult-like environment, or simply trying to engender support to keep people pledging money to feel like they're part of something, it's important to create a lexicon that only those on the "inside" will recognize. Those meaningless terms fill that need, and there's no shortage of backers tossing them around as a dog-whistle to other backers to let them know that they're in the same club.

There's more clique development than game development at CIG.

Virtual Captain posted:

Daztek posted:

Worth Clicking: (20seconds - Spacesuit commando races ship in hyperspace)

cig plz nerf nipplejets

I didn't pay $250 to loose a race to a fart powered commando.

D_Smart posted:

For those of us who have developed multiplayer games, it almost always starts out as a single player session with stub code for all the networking bits which you later fill in. And that off-line mode is valuable for testing because without the actual data set earlier on, you have no idea how you need to streamline your code down the road.

And that's typically the problem that Star Citizen has. They somehow figured that - untouched - the baseline CryEngine network layer was adequate. It wasn't - as anyone who has played a CryEngine multiplayer game will tell you. But they decided, wtf, we're just going to make an MMO anyway.

Having done that, knowing that they're never - ever - getting an MMO out of this poo poo-show, they decided to focus on other things, while making minor to subtle revisions to the network layer in order to be able to actually come up with a proper client-server (FYI CryEngine base networking is peer-to-peer, but you can hack in a client-server model if you wanted to). It's how the PU came to be, whereby they were touting "persistence" despite the fact that there was nothing actually persistent (db store and pulls are not persistence) about it.

So, right now in 3.0, hype aside - with zero optimizations to their networking - each client in a serssion sends in excess of 4K bytes (I poo poo you not, fire up Wireshark and see) per second to the server. The server response is over 160K bytes - to every loving client. This is only part of the reason why the server shits itself so frequently.

The end result? As I've written over and over, they're never - ever - getting an MMO out of this. If they don't collapse in the short-term, and somehow limp along putting bandaid on the PU until they poo poo out SQ42, the closest they're ever going to get to meaningful multiplayer, is precisely where they are right now, but with fewer clients.

Abuminable posted:

AP posted:

890 Jump back on sale, they are throwing absolutely everything at this.
Limited editions, you thought? Oh, they found a few more in the back.

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Disregarding that, the community is so detached from reality and so ignorant to concepts of software development that it hurts. 'I'm just backing the MOST AMBITIOUS GAME EVER' is neither a good idea or relevant defense when the scope of your ambitious game is 'all the stuff'. That talk is cheap, but delivering on that, even for the an experienced and talented studio proves to be really hard. It just stuns me that is a nontrivial number of people can be promised absolutely everything and they don't have the introspection or sense to examine those claims and say, 'maybe I'm being lied to for money...'

Daztek posted:

here is a very star citizen screenshot

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

Beet Wagon posted:

Lol I couldn't be hosed to watch their dumb Grand Tour ripoff video for the new jpeg until just now. Jesus Christ it's smoothbrains all the way down.

Why would you need to do a daily visual inspection on the entire outside of your futuristic space warship?
Why would you need to do it floating like 60 feet above the things you're gonna be looking at?
Why would you only send one loving guy to do the whole thing?

It's actually really simple: the "it's a broken down piece of poo poo but it's got character and I love it" sci-fi tech trope. Serenity from Firefly and the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars are the obvious two, but it's not uncommon to have "this piece of poo poo ship broke down again" as the Problem Of The Week in other sci-fi series. Both are "pieces of poo poo" in their own established universes, beloved by their owners despite their quirks, and beloved by the fanbases of both shows. People are literally daydreaming about "how cool it would be to have a ship like that IRL, and everyone who thinks it's a piece of poo poo can go gently caress themselves because it's got ~character~" and don't spend a second of time thinking about the actual offscreen pain-in-the-rear end maintenance time involved for either.

So basically another iteration of "it works in movies but trying to put it into a game is going to make your game suck"
realism simulation. But they're never going to learn that it sucks because it's not actually ever going to end up in the game, so they're just going to fall for the next game that promises exactly the same thing.

The Titanic posted:


1: Those missions we told you about? Lying.

2: Remember that persistence thing we had two years ago? Well we lied, sorry.

3: A ship has no real attachment to you, even though we told you it was a big part of the game. Sorry, we lied again! Oopsy daisy!

4: All those awesome videos of mobiglass customizing of- gently caress guys, we don’t even have genders for characters yet, of course we’re lying to you. Gosh.

5: Remember those awesome repair mechanics with picking out materials and focusing repair arms and- come on guys, of course it’s not in because we literally have no idea how to do any of this. We just lie... about everything.

Tokamak posted:

I have a leak about tomorrow's land claim sale:

UEC purchasable 'Pioneer' land claims (such as the ones bundled with the Pioneer) will only be valid for uninhabited areas. If you want to build near a landing zone, you'll need to pay real cash for a premium 'UEE' land claim. You'll be provided perks such as priority docking at the LZ, listing player owned store inventory directly on LZ kiosks, having delivery drones for cargo/sales between player base and LZ, chauffeured transport between player base and LZ, access to the champagne room at the LZ, etc. Of course the more popular a LZ is in lore, the more cash you'll have to pay for a claim. Chris is expecting the land claim sale to break previous holiday funding records.

FailureToReport posted:

Not exactly what you're asking for, but I read this a while back (when I was still a backer) and it was one of a few things that really started me on my slope of giving up on CIG and the SC Community.

reddit posted:

So I came here like 2 or 3 months ago after star citizen was posted on the shittykickstarters subreddit. Before that day I had heard about star citizen to the extent that I knew it was a game and that it was popular. (When they introduced their subreddit bot they had a "upvote this post so our bot gets karma" post that hit the front of r all)
Anyways, in doing my due diligence to see whether or not they were a scam/failure as I do with all the kickstarters that get posted I noticed a fascinating trend that you really don't see with any other game or even subreddit for that matter.

I went to their subreddit and sorted by top+all time and didn't really see anything out of the ordinary. But when I went to sort by controversial I noticed that you couldn't even do that because they've disabled to option. Name one other subreddit on this entire site that does that. But luckily you can just type the url in manually and view the most controversial threads, so I did, and it was quite a different scene.
This game's community is about as close as you can get to a cult without actually having the elements needed for the official label. Everything else is there.
• Controversial filter is disabled
• Automatic flair of 'new user/low karma'
• Calls for users with said flair to be prevented from posting
• Constant celebrations for new funding milestones (a tactic done by multi-level marketing companies to encourage sales)
• Automatic dismissal of criticisms from users who haven't earned the right to
• Automatic acceptance of criticisms from users who have (implying that they are not actually concerned with the validity of the criticisms but rather the need to appease)
• Telling concerned users to take a break and check back in a few months (dilutes the voice of like-minded users)

I can't help but wonder if the community's refusal to hold the developers's feet to the fire has enabled the developers to drag their feet in completing the project. Moreover, I think they take backers-turned-doubters like you guys for granted because you provide a necessary leverage against the developers that may not be there should the community one day need it.

The last bullet point was one that really stood out to me, because you see that thrown out in the SC subreddit religiously. If someone starts up a thread that doesn't immediately get killed in it's crib, it eventually gets loaded with "you should take a healthy break and come back later".

FailureToReport posted:

AP posted:

It's amazing how CIG gives them a little detail on something and suddenly there's all these dreams about what they can do with their multi thousand dollar pretend fleet, it builds and builds until "it's a bit like firefly".
This is a big part of how people get caught up in it honestly, I've seen so many people come across my channel with this grand fully worked out scenarios they 100% expect to be in game based off a tiny snippet that Chris or someone else at CIG says about a mechanic they would like to one day make.

I kept trying to think of a term to use for these players because Carebear isn't really what I want to call them, but there are thousands and thousands of backers who imagine they are going to call up their entire purchased "fleet" and roll out into the universe and have these super loving complex gameplay experiences that are more in depth than anything even remotely feasible.

Toops posted:

Latin Pheonix posted:

Just had a thought on Discord this morning. That giant footprint that appears when you shoot the railgun at the ground; the decal itself might be an error, but what I found odd was just how big it was. Then it struck me: Wasn't there a theory that in order to make planets on SC, everything on Cryengine was scaled-down from a normal map size? If so, maybe the footprint isn't big, they just forgot to downscale it?
This has been my working theory for a long time. Scaling down all game objects is a cheap way to make your levels "bigger," but it has disastrous effects, including breaking collisions (you can clip through things easily because your player character is approaching the collider's error margin), and breaking physics (mass gets screwy and everything tends to behave like balsa wood).

TheAgent posted:

reason 1: the game is a janky piece of poo poo
reason 2:

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

November Set 10

Dusty Lens posted:

I don't have the time to go full , however I did want to really quickly jump on the dream. There are a lot of aspects to Chris' ramblings that I always thought would lose dreamers pretty quick. The best specific is the whole "arma" combat comparison he loves making. I always thought that the prospect of handing their adventure over into the hands of a 2 second ttk (in a game with hours of travel and busywork) that will almost certainly favor the kind of player that most SC fans are desperately attempting to escape would cause something of a riot and demand for a softer combat form.

But things that don't fit in with their specific dreams aren't just disregarded, they're set aside to provide a kind of reinforcing structure. There's a tremendous emphasis on the idea of the technical. The combat wont be accessible to people who lack a technical knowledge, the pvp wont be something you can just walk into without the technical ability to fly a ship. There's this sort of membrane comprised of a nebulous ability to grasp this manufactured quality of player that segregates those who can (the people who will win because of their experience and the money they've spent) and the "general population" who will flail hopelessly attempting to navigate the sophisticated and sensitive systems of their own best Star Citizen. You'll recall the old forum threads where persons would enthusiastically discuss the weeks required to learn how to fly a ship properly. This years before Arena Commander was even available to the general public.

Players who pass through that membrane to join them in their own competency will be changed by the experience, becoming like them. All others will be on the wrong end of the "how do you like me now" moment of flying through space with their crew of space slaves manning all turrets.

e; oh shoot I typed too much

FailureToReport posted:

Every time CIG opened up a little and would lay out one of these new "hyper-realism" mechanics they wanted to put in game, I would talk about it in the channel and always try to frame it realistically, not in a dreamy make believe best case scenario.

The Time To Kill is a perfect example, I kept trying to stress to backers "Be careful what you wish for, because it's entirely plausible for you to spend an hour or more on a mission in your ship only to have someone decide they don't like your name, they are having a bad day, or whatever, so they kill you and it's loving over before you even have a chance to react. Now you've not only lost the time it took for you to do the mission up until encountering that player, but you've also lost the time it takes you to get back into a ship if you don't have multiple ships available or the credits to "rush" a replacement, as well as the time it takes you to get another mission, load up, and head back out."

These kind of arguments are almost always brushed aside with "Oh I'd kill them first cause I'm loving Captain Reynolds bitch!" or some version of "That's why you don't fly alone!" or maybe if they are humble something like "Well that's why there are bounty hunters and other pilots out there who will reign those kind of griefers in"...

No, there aren't. If most of the best pilots aren't griefers themselves, do you really think the others give a poo poo about you?

This game is very quickly developing into a griefer's wet loving dream. The amount of rage and suffering someone can inflict with minimal effort is near unprecedented. That never matters though because every backer I've ever argued with about this kind of stuff seems to live in a bubble of "it won't happen to me".

Beet Wagon posted:

One of my favorite moments streaming the game for goons was when I kept running into a group of three guys in superhornets blockading Port Kareah or whatever the gently caress the only interesting place in the PU is right now. It was so beautifully simple: an aspect of the game funneled me and anyone else caught in it to one place, and so these guys parked there and immediately blew up anybody that showed up.

Any good Citizen will tell you my Aurora should be just as capable in the hands of an expert pilot as a Super Hornet is in the hands of a mediocre pilot, but after the third time I got blown up immediately on exiting QT, I kind of started to wonder if that might not be the case lol. It was brilliant on the part of those guys though - there was no fun in the game so they made their own, and CIG made it so incredibly easy for them.

That's part of the reason why Star Marine is my favorite thing to show people who don't know about SC. Here you have this "incredibly tactical" first person shooter that was billed as being like ARMA and "More lethal than COD" and you go "okay yeah, TTK is gonna be super quick" but then wait a second, here's a 10-page design document detailing how death is going to be permanent and you're going to have to roll a new character to inherit all your poo poo. Something's not jiving here, but maybe the shooter isn't as bad as you thought. So you go play a round and people are dropping like flies. You don't even have to aim really, you just hose someone down and they die almost instantly. So you think "Okay, well... there must be some way to mitigate this, maybe move super tactically like ARMA or maybe there's some kind of gadgets or abilities to help you survive like Titanfall or something." Nope, haha, go gently caress yourself. The movement is horribly clunky and there's no 'sneaking' anywhere because of the poo poo level design, and if you thought gadgets were here well actually no because see that was the Illfonic build and it wasn't up to Chris's standards so now gadgets are coming in 20XX. Just... none of this poo poo works together even the tiniest bit, and it's amazing in how complex the stupidity of it all really is, especially when you see people defending it all by handwaving their own inability to cope with it away by being like "Oh well I'll always have an escort," or "I'm only going to stay in high-sec zones," or "I'm just that good" like FTR said.

XK posted:


This shouldn't be overlooked. This is, in a nutshell, what happens when crobbler is in charge of a game's development. This is why it took 3 years after Microsoft took over Digital Anvil to release Freelancer.

This is a snapshot of what's in his brain. He had to literally have told someone to track argon levels.

The backers want cargo, trading, bounty hunting, exploration, farming, repair scaffolds. They want research and design on weapons, power plants, and various ship subsystems, countless other things. Argon is being tracked.

This image alone is a stunning shot of why this project is in a death march.

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

Star Citizen: I had dreams but they all argon

Sarsapariller posted:

reddit posted:

*insane rambling about goons spreading fud to snatch up accounts on the cheap*
It's a good thing CIG has helped us to reinforce the narrative that the game is poo poo and everyone should sell their stuff on the grey market by making a poo poo game and also by allowing ship trading on a grey market.

It's a good thing CIG depressed the price of grey market trades by randomly denying refunds and instituting a one-trade limit, causing people to start panic selling their accounts at below-cost.

It's a good thing that the guy who ran r/DS wasn't recently caught with alt accounts pumping up his own trade history and trying to maintain positive opinions of the game even as he profited off of suckers by buying their accounts and reselling them on the grey market!

It's a good thing that rumors haven't been swirling for years of CIG gifting streamers and employees ships with the understanding that they will use the grey market to trade them for cash value!!!

Boy, I'm glad that it turned out that it was goons behind it all.

Enchanted Hat posted:

All of Star Citizen's bugs are caused by elevated levels of FUD in the game's atmosphere simulation. If THOSE loving GOONS would just stop making GBS threads on Star Citizen it would run bug-free at 120 fps.

Rad Russian posted:

Goon grey market illegal millions are simply pumped into LoD to launder the money. Derek is just our money washer. Obviously nobody sane legitimately buys LoD, however buying up thousands of copies with illegally scammed Star Citizen money is a perfect way to report taxable profit for goons and get clean money back. Derek's cut is 25%. Then Lowtax charges his usual 6% on all goon profits as well, which is you know, as his name suggests, is pretty low. The fact that they finally figured out our system is pretty impressive.

DapperDon posted:

This seems like a good time to bring this one back.

TheAgent posted:

Toops posted:

That was basically my experience. I watched SC for over a year from when I heard about it because even the initial pitch sounded like bullshit pipe dreams to me. I didn't know who Chris Roberts was, and only cared enough to do basic diligence which almost immediately revealed an incompetent nerd hack who lies for a living. I finally bought in when a starter package was $25 just to experience it. Loaded into the hanger, and instantaneously knew that the project was completely hosed. I've never experienced anything like it. It was this visceral combination of confusion and depression, that I can only assume was some part of my brain close to the stem sending alarm signals through the entire cortex saying "Everything about this is WRONG, get OUT of here." I loaded up Arena Commander and was treated to the lazy freakshow circus CIG calls a flight model, and after about 10 minutes of trying to shoot enemy ships in perpetual fly-by mode, I said welp, this entire design hopelessly hosed. Absolutely nothing in the game looks, feels, or controls right. It never has, and it never will. It's hands-down the worst piece of gaming software I've ever had the misfortune of "playing," and anyone who thinks Star Citizen will magically become "good" someday is too stupid to live.
I did the same thing, but my first real experience was playing star marine and I was all "well this is completely hosed in every way, from movement to shoot feel and I don't think there's much to be done about it except scraping it entirely and starting completely over"

Sarsapariller posted:

Yes that's standard procedure in a con job. There's six steps to a good con and Star Citizen cycles through them about once a year.

Foundation Work
Preparations are made in advance of the game, including the hiring of any assistants required.

The victim is contacted.

Build-up Grey market trades and ship beauty shots here
The victim is given an opportunity to profit from a scheme. The victim's greed is encouraged, such that their rational judgment of the situation might be impaired.

Pay-off or Convincer 3.0 launch here
The victim receives a small payout as a demonstration of the scheme's effectiveness. This may be a real amount of money, or faked in some way. In a gambling con, the victim is allowed to win several small bets. In a stock market con, the victim is given fake dividends.

The Hurrah You are currently here, with the anniversary sale. Limited time only!
A sudden crisis or change of events forces the victim to act immediately. This is the point at which the con succeeds or fails.

The In-and-In
A conspirator (in on the con, but assumes the role of an interested bystander) puts an amount of money into the same scheme as the victim, to add an appearance of legitimacy to the scheme. This can reassure the victim, and give the con man greater control when the deal has been completed.

"Confidence tricks exploit typical human characteristics such as greed, dishonesty, vanity, opportunism, lust, compassion, credulity, irresponsibility, desperation, and naïvety. As such, there is no consistent profile of a confidence trick victim; the common factor is simply that the victim relies on the good faith of the con artist. Victims of investment scams tend to show an incautious level of greed and gullibility, and many con artists target the elderly, but even alert and educated people may be taken in by other forms of a confidence trick."

==Land Sales!?==
RSI twitther says "Today at 12 Noon PST we are showing off something special."

a picture of a land claiming beacon appears, but is removes after a few mins. is 404 to this day. (imgur copy: STAKE YOUR CLAIM)

Quavers posted:

* the deleted land claim image *

Drunk Theory posted:

Well, gollyee. I'm Prospector Crobber here to tell you about this opportunity to buy the worlds primer space mine. Their spacegold in them there Procedural generated height mapped hills, and Ol' Crobber can get you in on the ground floor. So how many claims of old space mountain can I put you down for.

Toops posted:

There's no way they're actually selling land plots. There's just no way. I'm already peak citizen I can't handle this level of scam.

Sabreseven posted:

Yeah, but what citizens see is :

Daztek posted:

Stealing someone's goon valour

Virtual Captain posted:

Come on CIG, get your poo poo together and faceplant already.

Toops posted:

Daztek posted:

re land sales:

lol they caved

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

They literally showed a loving claim flag, so at this point they're probably begging Chris to change his mind.

Derek make a post that says if CIG doesn't do land sales it will be because you scared them off.

Virtual Captain posted:

Promo jpg gone and hour late on this noon thing. lol if they lost the nerve.

$60.50 for a 4x4 plot. $121 for 8x8 (skip to 10:35 for Land Claim Licences)

Virtual Captain posted:

Faceplant video is real.

Virtual Captain posted:

So Star Citizen is no longer a space game I guess.

Why is Dave even in the room, I skipped around and he never says anything. Chris really needed that moral support!?

big nipples big life posted:

Clifford the anime girl is going to buy a solar system.

Sabreseven posted:


gently caress, I have few words, most of them just sound like me laughing.

TheAgent posted:

this thread is now proven, hands down, the best place for star citizen related information months or years in advance

TheAgent posted:



"yeah um well they will obviously make it fair and balanced and I believe in Chris Roberts and this is okay by me as long as it supports development"

Milky Moor posted:


Mr Fronts posted:

In space, no-one can hear you wriggle and sigh ecstatically as Chris Roberts' hand slides smoothly across the top of your thigh, over your upper leg, into your hip pocket and - there, yes - deftly grasps the corner of a crisp hundred dollar bill, sliding it out oh so gently from between the receipts and pizza vouchers. Away with it, yes, take it, I want you to. Please, Chris, just promise me you'll meet me in the 'verse, looking up at Daymar's cold sun. Our little patch of land, our little patch of heaven. My heart races as I vow never to go anywhere without a special something nestled in my wallet. For him. For dreams.

Daztek posted:






Virtual Captain posted:

A week after the thermonuclear meltdown over lootboxes and Chris decides to go ahead with the $60 cash grab. There is no way this could backfire!

I wanna say hes gone too far, but theres really no telling with these spergs. Blatent pay2win hardly phases them.

Virtual Captain posted:

Xarbala posted:

I'm glad CIG gave the thread one last big cup of coffee before Christmas
circa 2016. God Bless you Christ Roberts.

Virtual Captain posted:


Well, I was right again. On Nov 22nd, I wrote that CIG had a plan to start selling land.

This is all desperation.

I am on ecstasy right now. Thank you Chris, your desperation is delicious.

Dusty Lens posted:

I wonder if there'll be another Chris Roberts damage control post like

That worked out pretty well in the long run.

Virtual Captain posted:

Youtube votes are nearly even split atm: 997▲ 849▼

Virtual Captain posted:

lol at Erin asking Chris questions like they haven't been discussing this for months. (19:08)

reddit posted:

RSI is basically a pyramid scheme at this point. It seems like they have no intention to actually release a playable, finished game to retail. None of their efforts are focused on gameplay loops.
Despite having no gameplay to speak of they will happily sell digital goods in a game that does not yet exist, exchanging these phantom virtual goods for real money. Then they "create" new virtual goods to sell, except that these virtual goods don't even exist in game. They're selling words on a screen. They're selling a rendering of a digital spaceship.
At least lootboxes give you tangible things in game. It might not have been the thing you were hoping to get, but it at least exists in game.

Virtual Captain posted:

Colostomy Bag posted:

Christ on a cracker. This debacle went from "11" to "12" on the dumpster fire scale.

13, punch it Chewie

Virtual Captain posted:

This is good for Star Citizen. Hear me out.

Obviously the space adventure MMO, Star Citizen was never going to happen. This is just one giant step into refactoring the game into a more CryEngine Lumberyard friendly format.

Sarsapariller posted:

One of the things I really love about Star Citizen's comedy is how nickel-and-dime it's become. They have what is easily the most rabid, generous fan base in the world. These people have given them hundreds of millions. Normally you would expect a game company that existed entirely on the basis of "Pledges" to express some... gratitude? Remember the "Loyalty rewards" in the early days and how original backer packages were steadily fluffed up with extra crap for the first 40 or 50 million worth of milestones?

That's another part of Era 1 of SC development that has entirely departed. Now it's like- you want forum access? Pay up. You want to see the keynote at our fan convention in person? 60 bucks. You want more weapons for your spaceship? Gonna cost ya.

It's not just that they're greedy, it's that they're nakedly hostile about that greed. They clearly don't even like their fan base and have worked really hard to turn what used to feel like a community company into a big impersonal storefront where just getting through the door starts to cost you. This is one of the reasons I'm so skeptical about any of their sales numbers. There is absolutely no way that new people are coming into that kind of environment.

G0RF posted:

I know we all have our private too 10 lists of greatest thread moments but I will forever take enormous quiet pride in the knowledge the we Goons, we lowly losers with our obsessive fixation on this godforsaken project helped in our own not trivial way to get the ball rolling that lead to the huge Kotaku U.K. series that remains the single most intensive outside look at the project in distress. It didn’t produce the laughs of so many other great thread moments but it fired a shot across the bow of CIG in a big way, and they forced Chris Roberts, armed with too many quotes from too many sources, to finally acknowledge the truth about Star Marine.

That one tiny victory didn’t mean much in the grand scheme but I will cherish t nonetheless, simply savoring the satisfactions all but demanded by Chris Roberts’ completely inexcusable mismanagement of that project and his toddler-like tantrums and the voices calling for him to account for the whole thing. Since the whole affair proved a microcosm of CIG’s macro problems with scope creep, project mismanagement, and the hype and deceit cycles of their marketing department, the entire affair outlined by Kotaku U’K.’s in-depth look will one day be seen for the omen it truly was. For our small part in helping to make that happen I will forever be thankful, regardless of how little good it did.

I feel the same way about the entire Streetroller saga, even though I was more skeptical of his motives at first and booted him from the discord server due to suspicions he was try to con us. But he wasn’t, he was a straight up guy, a fighter, the best kind of troll and smartass end he joined the ranks and landed a major blow that put CIG on the well deserved hot seat with the spotlight overhead.

Charlie Hall wanted to dox him for the sake of his precious “games journalism” (and the noble work of defending the morally upright gaming studio under unfair siege by evils goons) but alas, he got forced to do the right thing and leave him be. And Streetroller did his part, as Kotaku UK did, to sound alarms and remind backers of their own legal rights. And while that story too wasn’t the laughathon so many other thread moments were, it still lead to the gut busting Streetroller / Derek Smart / James Brand livestream event that IS in my top 10 funniest moments of the Goon War.

Sorry to be getting all nostalgic and wistful. But drat what an incredible story this whole bloody mess has been... what a privilege to watch it all unfold from the best seats in the house in the good company of funny, clever and mostly quite decent people.)

Mne nravitsya posted:

VictorianQueerLit posted:

I legit feel bad for anyone who still has passion for creativity and art that is dealing with Chris Roberts. I've worked in exactly the same type of situation a bunch of times. That's why the leak about Chris Roberts taking an entire day to describe how a bomber jacket should look rings extremely true.
You’re spot on, especially with the Chris assessment. I worked with Chris years ago at DA, and was so frustrated (as was the entire team) with him coming in every 4th day to work and changing everything based whatever he had seen the night before from some movie or tv show.

One of the things we used to laugh about (and his coding skills were at this level back then too) was him sitting at avid suite editing console and slowly pushing a random button, then looking up at the screen for a minute, then slowly pushing another random button and looking at the screen (this would go for hours). And yet Robert Rodrigues would swing by, sit down at the avid, and start typing on it like a 1950’s secretary on meth and then walk away 20minutes later with several shots completed.

I’m here because I know the pain that is in his studios, and I was genuinely curious if he would *actually* make a game this time. Turns out I was completely wrong about where his skills are: He makes money, not games.

Loxbourne posted:


In other words, the mainstream mass of gamers. People who presumably have only dimly heard of the project until launch day. The people who will flock to the game on the glorious Day of Release, when the clouds open and Chris Roberts descends from Heaven to grant Idrises to the faithful and cast Smart and his Goons into Hell where they shall wail and gnash their teeth as they are never permitted to fly e'en the smallest of Auroras.

A good Citizen is naturally an elitist. He would prefer to disdain the masses as fools, people who turned aside the CRoberts when he preached his message and whose tastes are nowhere near refined enough for the Best drat Space Sim Ever. However, they are caught by a tenet of Star Citizen theology - Star Citizen will be the best game ever and sell millions and millions of copies. The space stations must be bustling and full of players.

Someone must buy your mined space rocks. Someone must gape in awe at your 890 Jump, sometimes even try to attack you (and fail, and be sent to Pirate Jail to think about what they've done).

So the Faithless who buy after release get to be in Outer Heaven (a concept you sometimes see in real no-questions-asked cults). In the ‘verse, but firmly second class. They can man the turrets. Scrub the hot tubs. Be the redshirts and helm officers and people who report “Vanduul on the scope, Captain!” while the Faithful command from the bridge. There will be entire skillsets (like shield balancing or power management) that the Citizens never touch. But by heck they'll toss peons out the airlock (and out of their orgs) if they don't give their captain full shields when he calls for it in the heat of battle. It'd be like being the healer in a WoW raid if your tank was also paying your salary.

Perhaps, with much grinding and proof of their faith, the Faithless might aspire to own a ship one day (but it had better be after many months of tub-scrubbing). In which case they can be cannon fodder, escort fighters, perhaps pirates and targets for bounty hunters. The people who man all the dozens of planes lined up on the deck of the Citizen's pocket carrier. The people who foolishly charge the Citizens' guns and die so the Citizens can call themselves space aces.

It’s the Faithless who the insurance mechanics are for. A good Citizen has multiple ships and just flies off in another one. But someone with one ship they had to save for years to afford? Get scrubbing that jaccuzi. This is the dark secret of LTI; LTI on a ship means you never run the risk of being reduced down to Faithless level by a run of deaths.

It helps that a Citizen's natural contempt for the masses means he expects the Faithless to log in and immediately become pirates and griefers, because they're such dumb CODdies. They’ll run everywhere in the spaceports and ruin our immersion (so punish them. Ideally by forcing them to spend longer manning our turrets; some nice heavy fines would do it). They don’t understand the game like a Citizen does. Really, it’s what’s best for them and they’ll see that. Come the day.

A good citizen rebels when CIG suggest new players who haven't proven their faith, haven't sacrificed, haven't paid and faced the real-world consequences of paying (a citizen's going to have felt the impact on his wallet of all those ships, after all) might be able to own big ships in less than 100,000 hours. Surely Chris wouldn’t do that. We need people to stuff into crates and introduce to the inevitable consequences of piracy and it sure as hell ain’t gonna be the Citizens, they paid too much to put up with that. Their whole identity is built on being the big people in the ‘verse. On being whales.

This basically means the average Citizen sees themselves as a kind of MMO slumlord, keeping a horde of Faithless latecomers in poverty to keep their guns manned. It doesn’t occur to a Citizen for a moment that the Faithless might work this out and refuse to buy in. An unspoken tenet of the Cult of Star Citizen is the masses will kneel in awe when the glory of the full game is revealed to them. Kneel and beg for forgiveness, and in their mercy the Citizens will let them load cargo with their bare hands.

People who ask awkward questions about how, exactly, this is going to work get an incredible dose of rage. You're threatening a core tenet of the Star Citizen fantasy.

Seen Space Jam? You know that vision of the future the villain gives Michael Jordan of being chained to a basketball hoop, terrifying children in cinemas across the globe? That's where the faithless, the filthy faithless gamer on the street who didn't buy in when he had a chance, sits in Star Citizen theology.

Enjoy your hot tub.

Loxbourne posted:

I've commented in the past that every time CIG had a marketing disaster the citizens reacted in a predictable cycle. That cycle is going on around us right now. So let's get out our finest nature documentary gear, don some thick protective gloves, and take this wonderful opportunity to study firsthand the Five Stages of a CIG Marketing Fuckup.

You can break it down roughly into five stages as follows:

Stage 1: CIG makes a boo-boo. Chris throws a tantrum when his own game crashes, a demo goes wrong, the wheels come off on the ramp, they've started selling land plots, whatever it is. It's deeply embarrassing and directly contradicts the narrative the Citizens wrap themselves in as a safety blanket.

Stage 2: Suddenly the rug is yanked out from under the Citizenry's delusions and they're confronted with the reality that they've sunk thousands of dollars into a disaster. They panic, and when the citizenry panics it freezes up as it tries to process (and justify away) whatever they're seeing. Star...Citizen...bad? But but but nooooooo.

So we get a period of silence from the hardcore backers, usually a day or two but sometimes as long as week, as they struggle to come to terms with their situation. Into the silence emerge, blinking, a whole variety of less-crazy citizens who are usually lost in the glare, kept cowed by the threats and sheer volume of their nastier cousins. People who'd been shouted down in the past take advantage of the shocked paralysis to actually speak about their fears for the project in public for the first time. They can be surprisingly erudite and well-thought-out.

Some of those people, hearing the words coming out of their own mouths, realise they've been had and go on to demand refunds. More, perhaps too scared of the "refunder" label, quietly disappear and write off their investment. Others hesitate, knowing the backlash will come or fearing that if they do cross the wire the goons on the other side will mock them or seek revenge for past slights.

This phase lasts until the citizens can construct a reassuring narrative in their heads that doesn't hurt so much to think about. CIG know this, which is why after a day or two we always see...

Stage 3: CIG releases a sanitised version of whatever has scared the citizens. A livestream with the cringeworthy bits cropped out. "It's not really selling land". See, it didn't happen the way you were afraid it did, it actually happened like this. This is a nice safe version you can tell yourself is the real one. A kernel for the new Citizen narrative to form around.

Then the cry goes up and we're on to Stage 4, THE PURGE. Buoyed by the new narrative and happy to embrace their worldview once again, the citizens regain confidence. They haven't forgotten the pain of that horrible period when CIG's incompetence yanked the rug out from under them, oh no, but they have enough confidence now to silence any painful introspection. And they're angry.

So it's purge time. All you filthy critics, you refunders, you people who made us think scary and painful thoughts that we want to assign to outsiders instead of're going down hard.

The citizens go berserk. Boldly defy THE SMART and His Dark Works! Seek out the enemy within! Scour the apostates from the halls of the faithful! All their pent-up venom is unleashed on any poor souls who voiced criticism and don't get out of the way in time. Anything and everything is used as tool to vent the citizens' anger - past post history, old grudges, being on the wrong side of innocuous debates about flight physics three years ago, showing a flash of heresy, the existence of one of the other Hated Subreddits. All must either display their loyalty or be purged.

One of the sad forces fuelling the loop is that sometimes abused becomes abuser; someone who felt the wrath of the citizens in the last cycle gleefully joins in the next, in self-defence and to vent their own anger at their past treatment.

Lastly comes Stage 5: Project, Project, Project.

Y'see one of the dirty secrets of the citizenry is that they're not entirely terrible people. Some part of them is quite aware their behaviour is disturbing and cultish. But their greater investment in their self-image as Good Citizens drives them to suppress it. So after the initial outburst of rage comes a period of guilt and vulnerability, which a good citizen deals with by projecting it onto the enemy as hard as they can. I talked about how SC's problems as a game get projected onto Elite and LOD; this period is when the citizens deal with their problems as human beings.

They raged? No, goons rage. That dancing cat is full of rage and anger (this is literally how that running joke got started). They shilled? No, Smart shills, with his thousands of shilling shills in every shadow. They hounded enemies from the subreddit? No, goons did that. Filthy goons, driving people from their safe spaces with their trolling and hate. Chris openly laughed and talked about how easy it is to sell JPGs? Well Derek sells JPGs all the time from his JPG truck which he doesn't own because it was repossessed last week when his wife divorced him and also we don't doxx, Derek doxxes.

This phase is when the choicest and most ridiculous conspiracy theories form, to repair the citizenry's damaged self-image and explain away whatever excesses they need to excuse. Then everything returns to normal and the citizens can go about their business, refreshed and ready and ever-vigilant.

The citizenry don't always process each stage neatly. Individual citizens can be at one phase while others have moved on, or are still stuck in phase 2. Right now we've seen an unusual double-disaster (3.0 followed by land sales) and the amusing result is collisions between citizens who are at different points.

Let's take a worked example - Fandred trying to out jester86 as a goon spy.

Consider that from Fandred's POV. He's already smarting from his rejection from the refunds subreddit, is largely considered a joke verging on an apostate by the citizenry, and he wants attention. At the same time like any good citizen he distrusts the grey market as something that shouldn't be needed because the citizenry should be Buying More Ships from Glorious CIG. Worst of all, THE SMART has been discussing how jester86 had a different identity as a grey market seller and he was openly caught trying to buy accounts from refunders.

But Star Citizen GOOD. Star Citizen fans GOOD. Star Citizen fan reddit moderators DOUBLEPLUS GOOD.

So he tried to project his fears onto someone else - see? SEE? The grey market subreddit mod is a goon plant! That's why he runs the grey market subreddit (when all backers should be Buying More Ships from the Crobbler), and why he shut down the R/DS subreddit (which was a very painful defeat for its occupants, who suddenly found themselves unwelcome amongst the citizens they told themselves they were protecting), and why he consorted with filthy refunders. Above all that's why jester86 didn't conform to Fandred's mental image of a Good Citizen. A Good Citizen who was so blessed as to be a subreddit admin.

So he must be a secret plant. Must be a spy and a heretic. Must be called out and the wrath of the faithful brought to bear (which incidentally should get Fandred promoted up the ranks and rewarded for his faith, because it's horribly clear Fandred feels painfully isolated and really really wants friends).

There's just one eeeensy problem...

...CIG's image of the land claim spike got leaked.

Goons laughed. Citizens froze in horror. The cycle skipped to stage 2 and that meant Fandred unveiled his conspiracy theory too early. The citizenry can't run a witch-hunt now, they're too busy circling the wagons and trying to make the horrible horrible land sales go away. They're too busy fighting the whispers inside their heads to throw away a valuable fellow citizen. So nobody sided with Fandred and he got roundly ignored, left to the less-than-tender mercies of his would-be victim.

If he'd waited a week or two...waited for the cycle to move on and reach the purge or guilt-flushing stage, when the citizenry is eager to grasp at straws...jester would have been in a lot more trouble. The subreddits would have been on the hunt for apostates to purge, and the very same evidence might have been more than enough to make them get the pitchforks and stakes.

Jester got lucky that time. Ironically he owes his deliverance to CIG itself tripping over their own egos...but then, jester is a member of the inner cult and he already knows that. He's keeping his head firmly down right now and probably cursing CIG's idiocy for ruining the value of his investments.

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Feb 14, 2018

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December set 1

TheLastRoboKy posted:

I don't blame MoMA for not trying, though I disagree with the notion you could conceivably argue that the game's development is in a good place right now in a way that would be even remotely convincing to any but the most blinkered of individuals. It's fine to have faith in what's being done (to a point), but even dismissing the arguments about the financials for CIG you can't call what's come out so far a positive sign of progress. There's so many promises made about things to come in the future but the features that are in are so fundamentally broken it's difficult to fathom how they're just going to one day go "Oh look it's all working now" simply because they've been adding stuff without fixing anything which is breaking things even more. This is the barest surface of the argument that the entire project is messed up.

It's a game that at its core features travel from point A to point B as one of the things people will likely be doing the most in the game, and the game struggles with even managing that without doing something like violently ejecting a crew member into space, or mangling them for no reason, or the ship just plain loving exploding for no reason. It's a game where we've seen someone get out of their bunk, and with the goal of walking from point A to point B died in their doorway for no good reason at all. It's a game full of doors, but the doors are either the greatest hindrance or bypassed by simply rubbing up against them till you clip through them. All of this at 15 to 20 frames per second on a good day when there's not too many people in the server, which defeats the purpose of the game since it is at its core meant to be a game featuring degrees of socialising with other players in the form of alliances, trades and conflict.

What has been released at this point is just unacceptable when set against the metric of time spent on it. You cannot hope to convince anyone here that they're being too harsh on this game and its developers when after so many years all they've done is just dump whatever they had at the time at people's feet and ask for more money.

TheAgent posted:



The costs come in for the servers, the projected costs, if we do go ahead and release into beta next year [2018]. I don't know specifics but I know it's a lot. There's been some ask for how we continue to pay for that upkeep since the original deal fell through.
I wasn't exactly sure what they were talking about but no further discussion happened about that


Most of us feel subscription costs are the only way. There's no possible other way to keep the lights on here. I know a lot of our backers will be upset but, again, that's the nature of game development. Things change. Plans change. How can we cover support for a live game that requires hardware and software solutions still being developed? When the multiplayer blocks are still being built? There's no other way, at least none that I can see.
free-to-play players
  • can access the game
  • cannot own shops / outposts / land / stations
  • cannot own ships or pilot ships
  • can crew for others / take on specific ftp missions with friends or others
  • have a total credit cap earned weekly
  • total credit cap
  • cannot craft items
  • cannot sell on the marketplace
  • no storyline content is available for f2p tier
citizen tier or citizenship
  • full access to the complete experience
  • can own buildings / shops / outposts / land /stations
  • has standard entry on markets and customer service queues
  • can create items
  • can sell on the marketplace
  • can see storyline content in SC
premium or commander tier
  • same as citizenship
  • has priority access on market lists (show up first)
  • priority access on CS queues
  • can ask developers in game about upcoming features
  • has additional storyline content via updates
  • priority choice of base (??)
additional higher tier called internally as royalty
  • invite only by dev choice
  • all content available
  • priority across the board
  • special irl and in game dinners and mixers with devs and staff
  • special promo skins
  • special bases / homes / outposts


Prices are being still being discussed.

Additionally, the more accounts you have with a certain level of status grant bonuses to credit production (?? no elaboration here) and your mission queue (?? or here).
  • f2p
  • $14.99
  • $39.99
  • $249.99

Toops posted:

Yeah I mean, the whole "CIG is out of cash, look at their burn rate vs. funding tracker!" narrative is just silly at this point. People have been theorycrafting their financial demise for years. Having seen behind the curtain of the oz-like financial engine that drives the software business, there is a no shortage of weird instruments, book-cooking, and raw venture capital available to the savvy CFO. The funding tracker doesn't mean poo poo. It's a marketing tool used to drive advertising and backer confidence. I mean, we all enjoy imagining CIG runnin plum out of cash and going tits up because they're selling dreams of a game they can't make, but the evidence suggests that CIG is financially sound, and I'll continue to believe that until I see any compelling evidence to the contrary.

Toops posted:

I would also like to remind everyone of this scathing Kotaku coverage of CIG's land sale gaffe, which openly mocks Chris Roberts and CIG


Ahahahaha! Sorry, let me try that again. Yes that's right stargazers, the good folks at Cloud Imperium Games never stop in their quest to bring you the galaxy's greatest space gahahahahaha!

They're selling plots of land for money! For a game that isn't finished! And doesn't have land claiming mechanics in it! You'd think that selling virtual land gets you somewhere near to the line of 'money for nothing' but how much more beautiful it is when the virtual land can't even be claimed. It's double virtual, what value!

Here's how it works: you pony up £37.30 (a round $50) and get a wee beacon in return. This part is real. You stick that beacon in the middle of the land you want to claim and, if it's not owned by someone else, it becomes yours. That bit is still theory. Those are some brass balls alright! All the vacuum of space does is make 'em shine even brighter.

VictorianQueerLit posted:

AP posted:

If you've got a problem with me saying "At the time none of us suspected things were as bad as he said", then you just need to quote that bit and argue about it.

You could quote it properly too as that helps, this is referring to July 2015 when I don't recall thread regulars talking about both the most senior producers about to walk, a few months before 5 members of the LA office got fired/walked, Star Marine got cancelled the Escapist ran their racist piece and Chris Roberts had his 8 hour meltdown.
I just deleted a brutal takedown because I'm picking too many fights all over the forum and don't have energy for this one.

TheLastRoboKy posted:

I guessed 3.8 million but them hitting 6 million doesn't really shock me. There's pretty obviously always been a strong core of people with more money than brains who view their purchases as helping development. This isn't the first time they've managed to claw their way out of a hole like this. Everyone likes to remind Derek he'd predicted they'd run out of money a few years back, but then they managed to out-do themselves and suck people back in in no small part due to the PU, and even Derek admits he was surprised they managed it.

I doubt this is the last time they'll do it, but looking at what they've managed so far it's obviously not going to result in a game coming out. The only way the dream is going to die is if the dreamers die.

How dare you where did I put my brutal takedown I think I left it in my basement goddamnit where's the light switch oh gently caress bonk tonk crash bang thud crack pchunk creak.

SomethingJones posted:

Well this is me throwing my hands up in light of $6 million space dollah (allegedly) pulled in during a time when the project is technically and demonstrably a mess from start to finish.

It defies common sense and logic.

In terms of gameplay it is indefensible. In terms of technical achievement it is indefensible and unfixable. In terms of art it is all over the place, models can look stunning, planets look terrible, animation is janky and bad. Movement is bad. Physics are bad.

The only way I can understand it is to remove it entirely from the world of games and gaming. It doesn't belong. It is not a game nor a demo of a game, it's more like an interactive mocap session with QWOP style triggers of canned actions.

It's designed that you can clunk your way around and the resulting images onscreen may create something that afterwards you can sit closed eyed and piece together your own mini-drama of what happened.

It evokes the idea of a game without actually being one. It puts you in the mood for the game it is trying to be without ever becoming it.

The only way it ends is if whales stop wanting what it wants to be.

The game is only one component of what these guys are buying into here, and it clearly, obviously is NOT the most important thing to them.

SCtrumpHaters posted:

That's why you guys are always wrong about CIG predictions. You think people with fresh, cold, critical eyes are looking at this. You don't understand the citizenry like I do. They bought into a vision and the fact that the game is bad now is ancillary because it will be good in the future.

I'm just trying to avoid having you guys end up like the goon bitcoiners who've been doing the whole "its gonna collapse next month for sure" for like half a decade now.

Star Citizen is strong. This poo poo will last til 2020 at least.

SCtrumpHaters posted:

CIG only ever gets in "trouble" with the community when they gently caress with the spaceships. All manner of bad things can happen with the project but the only time its not swept under the rug is when it fucks with spaceships. Because it fucks with the theorycrafting. FTR's first negative videos were about how CIG was loving with the spaceships. CIG is learning not to gently caress with the spaceships and negative threads are isolated or ignored.

So unless CIG is loving with the spaceships there is 0 cause for concern funding wise because the actual game is ancillary to this whole endeavor for at least the next 1 year or so. They've had a 5 year ride so far.

Golli posted:

It really is running on faith at this point.

And faith is defined as "Belief despite the absence of evidence"

The weekly AtV is like the weekly church service that reassures the faithful that their beliefs are valid, that they are part of a community of like-minded individuals and that if they keep believing and supporting the project financially they will be rewarded when the long awaited game is delivered.

There are even annual holidays (Gamescom/Citcon and the annual sale) that give the faithful a chance to congregate in-person and maybe even have an audience with their High Visionary to further reinforce their faith.

And just like with any faith group, when the promised Day of Deliverance comes and goes, they go back to introspection - how did we fail the project, how could we have misinterpreted the signs of it's Deliverance, and look to the High Visionary and his acolytes for guidance on how to continue their part in the work to move toward Deliverance Day. And the answer is "Buy more - spread the word - suffer not the heretic"

This game will never come out as an official release that you can purchase from anyplace but Robert Space, at least not before 2942.

Tokamak posted:

A bunch of leaked SQ42 audio:

<[All links are 404 now. DMCA Takedown?]>

Virtual Captain posted:

TheAgent posted:

additional higher tier called internally as royalty

CIG doesn't have the servers to handle half of their existing customers, how the hell do they expect f2p to work out. Amazon lol.

TheAgent posted:

the great thing is, as I grief, I'll feel grief because I'll be trying to ram someone off a platform at 7 or 8 frames a second

chris roberts has created a perpetual grief machine

his satanic masters will be v pleased

Colostomy Bag posted:

In many ways this thread itself is a continual grief machine.

reddit posted:

Oh this will be fun.


Galleon: 1997-2004 (7 years) L.A. Noire: 2004-2011 (7 years) ...
These games were RELEASED after 7 years. We are going into year 7 now, so how close do you think SQ42 is to release?


Spore: 2000-2008 (8 years) ...
This was Spore after 6 years. How much gameplay have you seen of SQ42?


Too Human : 1999-2008 (9 years)
Unfair comparison. Too Human development was on hiatus between 2000 and 2005.
"Development 2000. Prototyping for the game took place on the GameCube [...] without any indication of future development being announced until five years later in 2005."


Team Fortress 2: 1998-2007 (9 years)
Correction: 1999-2006 (7 years)
Valve halted the first iteration (1998-2000) because they wanted to use their new Source engine. It was then developed on the side and released in 2006


Prey: 1995-2006 (11 years)
3D Realms did Prey between 1995-1999, and it was full of technical problems, much of it was hacking the game to make things work instead of making the processes actually functional. They ditched the whole thing because it. didn't. work. Now compare that to the problems getting to 3.0. Think loooong and hard about this.
here, read this:
They did their mulligan 2001-2006 (5 years).


Diablo III: 2001-2012 (11 years)
Do you have any proof outside from Wikipedia that Diablo III development began in 2001? No. Someone tossed that in because that's the last Diablo II release. Not one HINT of anything- not a rumor, interview, or forum post even mentions D3 development until 2007. It wasn't even announced until 2008, and interviews with developers at that time state they were still working on classes.
Correction: 2008-2012 (4 years)


Duke Nukem Forever: 1996-2011 (15 years)
Do you REALLY want to compare SC development to DNF? If you do I'll even dedicate a reply to comparing the two.
In comparison Star Citizen hasn't taken long and has much more ambition in terms of scale and detail.
Star Citizen is now on year 7. 5 of those years, Cloud Imperium Games has had over 300 employees devoted to this one single game. As of today, December 3 2017 not one instance of gameplay for Squadron 42 has been shown. The core game still lacks functional features, while so much has been devoted to motion capture and selling concepts.
It's not a huge deal that the game is now into year 7, however the game is FAR from release, and given the current rate of work shown I can't see it happening anytime in the next few years without either cutting many features or the unlikely case that they have a ton of stuff done and are simply hiding it.

Loxbourne posted:

"FUD sippers".

Garcon! Bring me a glass of the vintage 2013 FUD, warmed before a fire and barrel-aged in fine oak casks. And make sure it's the 2013, I want to savour the aroma of crazed org tactical manuals without any bits of Starfarer floating in it.

Then bring me a snifter of backer tears and a small tray of savoury Cymelions. I shall retire to the Calling Room.

Goredema posted:


Unverifiable Anecdote Time: At one point in development, CIG was taking the thrust levels and X/Y angles of every maneuvering nipple on every ship, and sending that data over the network to every game client, and then letting each game client calculate how those values would result in movement for each ship. When I asked one of their CIG's QA guys "why not just send data on where the ship is, which way it's facing, and where is gonna be in the next tenth of a second?", he admitted that they switched to that method after realizing that Chris's preferred MAXIMUM FIDELITY method was just gobbling bandwidth.

Virtual Captain posted:

reddit posted:

Hi everybody,
I just watched a documentation about cathedrals and was baffled with how long the construction time of some of those has been.
Here are some building times of well known cathedrals:
Sagrada Familia (Barcelona - Spain) 133 years and still not finished
Notre Dame (Paris - France) 1163 a.d. - 1345 a.d.
Cologne Cathedral (Cologne - Germany) 1248 a.d. – 1473 a.d.
St. John the Divine (New York - USA) 1892 - still not finished
Washington National Cathedral (Washington - USA) 1909 - 1990
Now some of you might think "Star Citizen is not a cathedral". While you are right on one hand you are also wrong on the other.
If you look at the scale that SC has and also look at the dreams that SC aims for, it should be seen as a "gaming cathedral".
Star Citizen is a Mind Palace not a Cathedral

Raskolnikov posted:

PederP posted:

In my son's social sciences class they got asked to give examples of out-of-the-ordinary internet communities for study (and the teacher asked them to please not pick 4chan). As the good boy he is, he mentions "the fans of that scam game, Star Citizen", which was immediately met by "that's not a scam! what proof do you have?" from someone in his class. Turns out he's got a cultist in his high school class. I'm prepping him to mention Derek Smart in any remotely relevant context. This could be good.
That's him, in the social sciences course.

Golli posted:

Here is my report on the Star Citizen community of backers. They are the community that wrote this. I will read it to you verbatim, and let you decide.


/mic drop


AP posted:

How indie film financing could shape the future of games

Ortwin actually wrote about what they can get away with, a lot of it was focused on imagining future mechanisms that might eventually exist to prevent "plain abuse".


Fahey, as many others before him, points to the inherent risks of crowd funding to badly burn backers as there is currently no ability for backers to distinguish "well-planned projects" from "disasters in-the-making."
However, as many commentators have pointed out, if crowd funding is to mature as an alternative funding source for games of all budget sizes, it will ultimately need to include safeguards against insufficient planning or plain abuse.
On the other hand, if crowd funding is to mature as a reliable method for customers to support the development of a favorite game via an early pre-buy (as opposed to an enthusiastic donation with uncertain outcome), then this method will require a vetting process of the proposed project to ensure that the development and delivery is properly planned and secured for the proposed amounts. This could indeed be accomplished by completion insurance complete with experts who vet the developer's schedule and budget, not unlike in the field of independent film production.

The collected funds should be handled by a collection agent or the insurance company itself, to be paid out pursuant to an approved cash flow. Any unforeseen changes in the development process would be reviewed and approved by experienced specialists who monitor that process - something very familiar in the film production process as well. The completion guarantor would assure that the project will either be delivered to the early buyers as promised, or return the funds. Based on the fees charged in the film business, the insurance premium for such a completion guarantee and associated monitoring would probably be around 5 to 7 percent of the development budget.

Sarsapariller posted:

It really can't be emphasized enough how bad the combat is right now. There's a reason all of the posts on the subreddit, and all of the streamer videos, feature people just flying from planet to planet and loading/unloding cargo- you literally cannot fight in the current build of the PTU. Between super low framerates, input lag in the 2-3second range, and targets jittering all over the screen like coked up hummingbirds, it's next to impossible to land a shot. Even if you do, some rear end in a top hat at CIG decided to make combat more like Elite, I guess, which means your average engagement if you can hit the target will take 3-4 minutes just to do enough damage that they die. And there is literally nothing stopping them from ignoring you for the 10 seconds it takes to set a jump destination and fly away if they feel like they're losing. Not that you could tell you were losing because, as far as I can see, the shield indicators don't work and the damage states are broken as gently caress. Missiles almost never hit, and if they do hit seem to do next to no damage.

I'm actually really excited for them to fix the FPS. The game is stable enough that it doesn't crash very often already, and the only reason it is so riveting is because just fighting through the lag and low FPS to land on a planet feels like a real achievement. Smooth those framerates out and people are going to get tired of wanking over landing and go try to actually do things in the PTU, only to realize that literally every system is either a stubbed-in placeholder, or broken, or both.

Toops posted:

Star Citizen Defense Playbook:

Timeline Criticisms
  • CIG had to build a company from scratch, including hiring, building studios around the globe, etc.
  • R&D doesn't count.
  • All those games had engines already made. CIG is building their engine from scratch. It is called "Star Engine."
  • Those other games actually started development and R&D way before those dates, don't you know anything?
  • Star Citizen already has way more content than any of those games.
  • Star Citizen is doing something that literally no one has ever attempted before. Ground-breaking innovations take time.
  • Those games are bad because money-grubbing publishers forced them out the door before devs could make them into something good. Star Citizen doesn't have publishers, and no deadlines, so this means Star Citizen will be better.
  • This new era of gamers are impatient little bitches. I don't mind the wait, I have patience. I keep pledging so Chris Roberts will have as much time as he needs to recognize his vision.

Bugs, Lack of Content Criticisms
  • Star Citizen is more transparent than any other company, ever. You're seeing how the sausage is made.
  • There is way more content than they are showing us because they don't want to spoil it.
  • What are you talking about? I just spent <X> hours playing the game it's great/runs great/no bugs/perfectly smooth/amazing.
  • You obviously don't understand game development. Bugs like this are totally normal for a game in this stage of development. Have you ever heard of Alpha??
  • Don't be a part of early access if you can't handle some bugs.
  • All of those things you just listed are on the schedule, they will be delivered in <patch number>
  • They are doing a lot of the ground-work tech / pipelines that will pave the way for faster content creation later.
  • Oh, they already have the tech for <most of new feature that came out of nowhere>, it's not much effort to add.

Funding Model, Sales, Marketing Criticisms
  • Star Citizen is doing something different. They are bypassing the greedy publisher model only cares about profit and kills innovation.
  • Nobody is forcing you to pledge.
  • I backed the game because I believe in Chris Roberts's vision, it's the game I've always dreamed of playing.
  • All the ships that can be bought can be acquired in-game, therefore not pay-to-win.
  • The game does not have subscriptions. You can subscribe to help pay for weekly content which gives us insights into game development never before seen.
  • You're not buying land! You're buying the ability to claim land. Huge difference.
  • It's not a scam. They have offices all over the world and the game is playable right now.
  • CIG is not in any kind of financial trouble, just look at the funding tracker.

General Rebuttals
  • Why are you even commenting if you hate the game so much? What kind of sad person just goes around tearing things down?
  • Oh look, another Derek Smart alt trying to spread lies and mis-information about Star Citizen because he's jealous.
  • Known troll/goon. Downvote and move on.
  • How many AAA games have YOU released?

Loxbourne posted:

A backer looks out over the ramparts and tells himself what he sees is an organised, marching horde who all turn as one to mock him on the command of a hidden Dark Master. What he's actually seeing is a load of entirely unconnected passersby suddenly staring at this guy and wondering why he's wearing a clown suit.

Rugganovich posted:

Chris stated a couple of years ago that they had sufficient funds to complete the game. That negates the defense right there.

In the 90's you could waffle on with bullshit and people would forget as time went on and when it came to calling a person on something it was near nigh impossible to find the info.
Fast forward to now and everything is recorded in triplicate.

And I'll leave you with one thing to ponder. I know that Derek has stated that no-one will go to gaol over this, who knows, but have a look at the proofs of Fraud and see how many boxes you can tick.

Elements of proof:
Any act or omission
Including a misrepresentation
That knowingly or recklessly misleads, or attempts to mislead
A party
To obtain a financial or other benefit
Or to avoid an obligation

D_Smart posted:

ps: When I say that I'm going to see Chris Roberts go to jail if he doesn't deliver this game, trust me, I will do it.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

Gerblyn posted:

Posting to say thanks for doing this, and to try and get page 2, because page 1 is loving monstrous right now.

I'm making a note here, "HUGE SUCCESS"

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 2

The Titanic posted:


$6.59M raked in for the sale.
My biggest problem, that I always have with SC, is that no matter how bad it is or how much I know I have to ignore logic, I keep assuming people are not fools.

All my projections are off because I can’t accept how stupid people are about this game.

Spiderdrake posted:

It's weird how square one is "these people are insane enough to spend thousands on jpegs of spaceships" and yet they still find new, inventive ways to come off as increasingly insane.

ManofManyAliases posted:

I'm a backer who originally pledged 8k worth of items, 4k were for friends of my org who have since paid me for those items. I offloaded around 1k in the grey market and now sit on just over 3k worth of ships. I know you guys have fun with the whole Toast bit - it's cute sometimes but mostly boring others. If I were Toast, I'd likely have much more skin in the game seeing as how CIG gets ginormous discounts on ships and all.

juggalo baby coffin posted:

i saw a glimpse into the good timeline where trump isn't president, where obama passed universal healthcare, and derek smart raised 200 million for LOD 2017

croberts was crouched in an alleyway, crowdfunding from passers by, and snorting 'fool's coke' he had made out of dust and crushed up rat poison

Dusty Lens posted:

So this thread still exists but now it's Chris posting about his July blog.

juggalo baby coffin posted:

yeah some things never change no matter which reality you flee to

Dogeh posted:

D_Smart on twitter posted:

Well, if the latest Star Citizen patch seems better on the CPU, it's cuz after MANY weeks, whoever left Sleep (0) in the code, has now changed it to Sleep (1).

Star Citizen still has DOZENS in there. Each one can tied up a CPU to 100% utilization.

They've got over 400 CrySpinLock references in this. OMG! Please call up CryTek and ask them why that's very - very - bad.

CSocketIOManagerSelect::PushUserMessage were removed by Lumberyard, but still in Star Citizen.

At this rate, I'm just going to have to keep disassembling this whole mess and just fix the performance bugs myself. God I hope they sue me. That would be hilarious.
They better credit you when the intern reads this thread and says,

"Erm, guys. You'll never guess.
Derek just solved all our framerate issues"

reddit posted:

In render mesh management, code lock contention has been optimized. Generally, frequent CPU spikes on server and client side due to spin locks have been removed. The relevant changes mention in last week’s report as in-progress have been submitted. People on the PTU have observed the effect of a degenerated "spin lock". A spin lock used to control access to a shared resource when multiple threads are trying to work on it, such as a file or a memory space. It allows for very fast resource transfer between thread, but threads waiting for the resource are consuming a huge amount of CPU while waiting. It's useful as long as each thread doesn't wait long for the resource, otherwise it becomes a huge performance drain on all CPU cores

D_Smart posted:

Well, bad news. CIG didn't remove any spinlocks or sleep(1) calls in the latest patch. hence the continued hangs, crashes and performance issues. there are still 600+ spinlocks and 400+ sleep(1) calls still in this patch.

They lied. Shocking, I know.

Using IDA disassembler and Hex-Rays Decompiler, you can see this a clear as day in the current and previous versions.

There is NO fixing bad architecture and design; so I don't expect ANYTHING they do to yield ANY positive results in the short term. There will be crashes, hangs, and even worse performance issues if they ever survive long enough to progress beyond 3 barren moons.

AP posted:

Worth Clicking: (video: Commando beheaded due to bug)

Toops posted:

My favorite part is not that the server crashes just as he's arriving at the place he wanted to go, in the ship he wanted to be in (which probably took an hour), and instantly got a criminal record due to CIG's buggy bullshit "criminal" system. No. My favorite part is that he muses to his subs "hey, I wonder when I reconnect if I'll be at the same place in my ship because of persistence. Also, I'll probably still have my criminal record, due to persistence."

Did he spawn in to his last position? No.
Did he spawn in the ship he was last in? No.
Did he wake up back in his Port Olisar wank-pod? Yes.
Did he have a criminal record? No.

There's no persistence man. This game's never coming out.

For the record, persistence is one of the trickiest things to get right, especially on the programming side. You have to account for every edge case. It can't have any bugs, because persistence bugs are what make people ragequit/uninstall/refund games. It means losing progress, and even the Stariest of Citizens will rightly lose their poo poo if persistence isn't near-perfect.

PederP posted:

The CryTek top brass don't play softball. I know someone who was asked during a job interview there if he had an SO, because they preferred staff without attachments (family got in the way of crunch). They also had a tendency to try and trick applicants into writing actual production code to be "evaluated". Add to that the way CryTek treated their staff during their recent financial crisis, trying to convince them not to act on missing paychecks (which in Europe can cause a loss of ability to get compensation in case of bankruptcy), was pretty lovely. They certainly don't deserve any pity. But I am pretty sure they'll sure hardcore if they can.

CIG sent out 3.0 invites to "wave 2" so there are a slew of new low fps bug videos: (Commando dies for standing still too long) (ship spinning) (disapearing head) (ship despawns) (Flying NPC...)

Hav posted:

"A 1000 ways to die on Daymar"

Standing still
Getting out of your chair
Slow walking
Being shot

Colostomy Bag posted:

reddit posted:

I finally compleated a mission!
My method of bug testing has been to attempt a cargo mission. At first, it was just to find the bugs. But after about 25 attempts, I just wanted to complete one.
So after crashes, so many many crashes. After getting stuck in Mobiglass mode; dying from standing up; dying by carrying a box onto another physics grid; having boxes disappear; having boxes jump back to the start; missions going away; locations going away; my ship going away; starmap failers; more crashes; framerate dropping to 0; mission just not acknowledging delivery; mission resetting after dropping the box; the interaction key failing after arrival and, I kid you not, a power failure right as I was about to deliver.
I finally dropped off a box and was acknowledged for it.
Over 50 attempts. I know it was the latest patch. But I can't help but feel vindicated.
Look forward to more attempts.

To think he pays for this privilege.

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

Right here is pretty much the be all and end all of the last 6 years of CIG-related development hell. The "they built a roof before building the walls/painted the walls before doing the drywall" analogy has been trotted out more than once but it's worth repeating. Roberts hired carpenters with the intent of building a house, said "wait no I want to build a castle", got angry and fired everyone who said "well, our foundation and first floor is for a house, so if you want to make it bigger we're going to need to start over from scratch", and now everyone is making a massive Chernobyl-esque sarcophagus out of paper maché and elmer's glue, and they're trying to prop that facade up from the inside with a finite number of 2x4s that they keep stealing from people on the other side of the house. And it's starting to rain.

Also there's no carpenters, it's just college grads who majored in basket weaving.

Sarsapariller posted:

Daztek posted:

I'm not sure what the context of this is, but I'm sure it's good for star citizen

Yeah no big we'll just swap VR in later that's how all the really good VR games do it right it's not like they need entirely new versions released because literally every interface has to be rethought for VR boy it sure would be a problem if we'd sold the game repeatedly as being the ultimate VR experience or something back when VR was the big new fad oh well gently caress it we're chasing new fads now like face over IP hahaha yeah sure go ahead and buy that camera see what it gets you oops I wasn't supposed to say that out loud I've been working for 96 hours straight oh well gently caress you, you'll buy anything.

Sarsapariller posted:

This place is really hopping- there's like 5 commando ships here which for Star Citizen is the equivalent of the Stormwind auction house steps. Naturally my FPS takes a poo poo due to all of this activity and I end up in a kind of uncontrolled drift-crash into the main tower. Luckily my ship and the largely-glass tower come away completely unscathed from another 2000mph impact. Somehow I manage to hang onto my bandolier of clips and medpens as well. Fidelity! I request landing, one system which miraculously has not actually failed yet, and am directed to one of the big hangar pits with the door that slides open for me to lower my ship through.

Sarsapariller posted:

I cannot think of anything more fundamental than inventory management for an MMO and trading game. It's such a solved problem, too. It's just lists and DB calls! How do you gently caress that up so badly? Nobody, not one person on earth, is going to have an improved gameplay experience because they had to manage every individual clip for their stupid rifle.

It gets even worse when you go to the shop for ships. At least you sort of vaguely know what a rifle or a pistol looks like. Everything in the ship shops is just a box with greebles glued on to it. There's no information on them at all except price. Oh, I can get an Aegis Regulator for 5000 credits? Great! What is that? Is it a shield? What size is it? Is it even compatible with my ship? Is it better than what I've got? Oh this one's a power plant, you say! How do you even plug that in? The only mod points on most ships are the guns on the outside.

On top of that, now you can't even spawn shopkeepers by just giving them an inventory list. Some poor slob artist has to painstakingly go through and set down every item in the shop just so, and then some poor rear end in a top hat programmer is going to have to wire all the triggers so clicking on it opens the Moby-Glass to the right page. I've already found several guns that are priced wrong from the ones right next to them.

The whole thing is hosed.

his nibs posted: (video: Disco Lando: "Ryan Archer? Ryan Archer actually drew.")

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Dec 10, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 3

SelenicMartian posted:

boviscopophobic posted:

I noticed that unrelated text subtitles flicker briefly onto the screen occasionally, as if the guy is continually in telepathic conversation with NPCs all over the 'Verse. This isn't the first 3.0 video where I've seen this phenomenon. Just a couple of instances below:
Someone in the verse is probably interacting with the shop at the same time, and this thing broadcasts every action of every player to every client regardless of range and sublevel.

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

More likely is that everything is broadcast to everyone but the decision to show the dialogue is client-authoritative, and said client is chugging hard enough that it shows up for a split second before the client manages to figure out that it shouldn't be shown. The alternative was probably "if we default to not showing the dialogue, sometimes it doesn't show up at all".

Naturally this opens new and exciting future avenues for griefing. Competitive PvP games like Counterstrike, Overwatch, and World of Warcraft have a lot of special code server side to make sure things like "positional data for people that your client shouldn't be able to see behind a wall" aren't broadcast in the first place, to prevent client hacks like "making the walls invisible" from actually doing anything for you.

Sarsapariller posted:

D_Smart posted:

We make fun of them for the lols, but we're now down to the point where we have to start taking this poo poo seriously because, you know, lives and bank accounts are at a risk.
Explain to me how lives are at risk, though? Bank accounts I'll grant you, but really even if Star Citizen were to disappear tomorrow I kind of feel like the dudes who'd invest their family's life savings into scam video games in pursuit of community and meaning are gonna find some way to lose that money.

I do think there will eventually be something that they declare as the final game. Years late, tens of millions over budget, and with mechanics that range from passable to holy-crap-how-did-that-ever-get-released. It'll be billed as an MMO but be largely played as a single player wandering-and-trading game, because they forgot to balance any of the economics to make piracy or bounty hunting worthwhile other than as griefing professions. It will be swiftly forgotten about within months as it is laughably far behind other games of the same period. The idiots who sunk 50,000 dollars into it will still feel justified because it came out, after all, and the amount they spent was so long ago that they're no longer feeling buyer's remorse.

Only two questions remain for me at this point- how can they possibly put out all of the ships they've sold, with all of the mechanics they've promised, without going broke? And if they don't release them how can they cut and run having sold people stuff they didn't deliver?

Sunswipe posted:

Drunk Theory posted:

Ben he is just background Wing Commander noise on Twitter these days. And not much of that even. He could probably vanish at this point and only weirdos like us would notice.
It's kinda funny how CIG will be in full crisis management mode over something and Ben's Twitter just has something like "They're not printing any Star Trek books this month. "

MilesK posted:

Like, according to twitter Ben has been playing Animal Crossing.

No way that low fidelity console bullshit is more fun than alpha 3.0

Sarsapariller posted:

Man you should see the rage going on over the Constellation Phoenix right now. They sold this thing as a super up-gunned version of the Constellation with better shields, better guns, better missiles, a "Point defense turret" in addition to the two regular turrets, better armor... it was supposed to be some kind of luxury VIP transport. Then they released the hangar version 2 years ago, and it was just a white version with a hot tub inside.

Now they're doing the inevitable "Refactoring" and literally all of the stuff I just mentioned has been dropped except for the hot tub. It's just a mangled version of the regular Constellation with less missiles and a fatter midsection to accommodate your frat parties. There's not even any gameplay reason for it to exist. But it still costs like $125 more than the regular versions- gently caress you if you don't like it!

I would argue that this is not really a new kind of scam at all. It is a cult and a con. It turns out that cults have always been especially seductive to exactly the kind of people Star Citizen routinely preys on- loners with inferiority complexes who don't really have a lot of experience of what a healthy community should be. They get told that no they really are special, and here's a place for people just like them- give a little more, and you can enter at a higher rank- because if you can throw that kind of money around you've obviously already earned the respect! The only thing they don't really have is a good messianic leader because Chris is kind of a fuckup and Sandi is a transparently evil grasper. I guess you could say that's the unique part- it's kind of a crowdsourced cult, where they all take turns "Inspiring the faithful" and nobody gets to sleep with the groupies because women are 100% repelled by this thing.

PC Gamer posted:

The 10 most dubious in-game purchases
Star Citizen: Land deeds
You can pay $50 to $100 for a claim to a plot of virtual land in a game that isn't out yet thanks to Star Citizen's land purchasing system that lets you secure a 4km x 4km "lot" or an 8km x 8km "estate" for your outlay. You don't need a land license to build in Star Citizen, but owning the land offers you protection against vandals, who will be committing an in-game crime for messing around with your private property. You can't choose where your plot goes yet, because Star Citizen's planned universe doesn't exist yet, but in the meantime you can look at a picture of a patch of Moon and dream.

==Flashfire mount too difficult to implement, gets cut==

Dusty Lens posted:

Released with 1.3 in Oct of 2015
No longer operational as of 2.2 in March 2016
Removed from the store sometime around Dec 10 2017

Virtual Captain posted:

Wtf is flashfire I asked google:
"Want some bigger bang for your credit… literally? These carefully designed mounts will transform larger hardpoints on the Hornet and Cutlass-class platforms to allow them to attach large weaponry"

Basically take your [x] slots and turn them into a [x]+1 slots! You'd be an idiot not to upgrade. Was this sold before they even had the dogfighting module?
Imagine if Blizzard started selling the "Titan's Grip" talent (lets your character hold 2-handed weapons with one hand) before they even finished the original game, lol.

Drunk Theory posted:

And then decided that no actually that makes warriors overpowered. So we aren't adding that talent anymore. If you bought that talent already, we'll figure out how to compensate you at some point.

Tokamak posted:

This is straight up P2W.
Pay money for a consumable (seven, twenty four hour uses) that gives +1 size on a hardpoint. I have to give CIG credit though, 80 cents is a steal for a item like this. In other P2W mobile games, you're probably paying at least $5 for something that significantly subverts the game balance for a week.

Dusty Lens posted:

It cost $8. To mount a gun. Not the gun. But a different way to put your gun on your ship.

They sell different versions of this for $3 and $5 I believe. Per mount. So about $20 to make it so all of the guns on your Hornet track with your mouse. Roughly.

==Lead Network Engineer slips difficulty with engine==

Sarsapariller posted:

Spectrum: Why is the graphics pipeline waiting for server updates?
Reddit: CIG Lead Network Programmer - "Netcode does not make clients run slowly, and never has."


There are a few myths that seem to get repeated quite a lot - please allow me to dispel some of them for you:

* The graphics pipeline does not wait for server updates.
* Server FPS does not affect client FPS.
* Netcode does not make clients run slowly, and never has.
* Netcode does not make servers run slowly, anymore, even though we've added more clients.
* You get better performance on newer servers because there are fewer players on them so your client has to do less work - like physics, animation, IFCS, and entity updates.
* Players hacking the game to play PU in "offline mode" get better performance than they do online because their clients don't have to deal with all the load generated by 49 other players.

What is so hard about fixing the performance problems is that the game is pushing the engine way beyond what it was designed to handle. Fixing that means fundamentally changing how systems work while simultaneously trying not to break everything in the game that uses them. Big performance gains that require making big changes take time. Sometimes we have to do a lot of restructuring before we can even start working on an optimisation. Making all these changes can introduce a lot of bugs, and fixing those takes even more time. Let's also not forget that performance is not the only goal here - we're also trying to achieve fidelity levels not seen before. Fidelity is often the enemy of performance, so we find ourselves having to optimize even further than we otherwise would have had to.

Important clarifications from CIG! It's not the net code that makes the game choke and die, it's the number of players on the server that makes the game choke and die!

A very important distinction because they might improve the netcode some day, but the number of players running around is only ever going to get worse. And there's no real fix in sight, and probably never will be! Thanks CIG!

Foo Diddley posted:

How in the gently caress can anybody read this bullshit and think that the project is in good hands

chochmah posted:

some are coping the usual way: "It could be thread contention that is blocking the CPU from being 100% utilized"
some inch a little bit closer towards the realization that not all is well in the state of croberts: "Me thinks you opened a can of worms with your response...".

TheLastRoboKy posted:

Oh thank god for a second there I thought Star Citizen was hosed beyond all recovery, but it's an issue with player numbers that'll sort itself out when they all get sick of playing at 5fps and quit.

Mr Fronts posted:

Look, stop over-reacting. All the CIG dev said was,

"What is so hard about fixing the performance problems is that the game is pushing the engine way beyond what it was designed to handle. Fixing that means fundamentally changing how systems work while simultaneously trying not to break everything in the game that uses them."

December 2017. A hundred and seventy eleventy million billion dollars. The solution is to fundamentally change how an inadequate engine does things in a way that doesn't break everything.

Once again, CIG shows those stupid AAA publishers how it's meant to be done.

Foo Diddley posted:

Half a motherfucking decade into development and they are just now realizing that their FPS engine can't do an MMO. And they can't just scrap and rewrite everything that they need to, because people are playing the game already. They have to completely overhaul the engine, but do it bit by bit without breaking anything too badly, so that they can show constant progress to the backers. Good luck with that, CIG

Maybe the incompetent dickhead in charge should have looked at more than screenshots when he was deciding what engine to use

Virtual Captain posted:

"netcode" packs so much of SC's problems into a tiny neat ignorable box. All CIG had to do is say "don't worry we'll improve the netcode when all the major features are complete" and they would be fine.

I imagine there is a lot of rear end covering and throwing other departments under the bus in CIG's company culture, this guy was just doing what Chris taught him to do.

D_Smart posted:

What Clive wrote is absolutely and patently insane. If I didn't read that with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. wow.

It clearly shows - yet another example of why this project is FUBAR.

I am writing an article right now about it. For the record, and in case there was ANY doubt, I called it already...

Sarsapariller posted:

Derek you're obviously mistaken. He's not just any network engineer. Citizens have recognized him as a netcode God. Bow before your betters.

Suddenly we're all really excited for a 40 minute episode about latency and packet size.

Toops posted:

HAHAHA holy poo poo. That guy has no loving idea what he’s talking about. That’s written like your Michael Scott level manager or customer service rep that hears the engineers say words and thinks if he re-uses the words that means he’s an expert on the subject.

Jesus what a fiasco.

Cao Ni Ma posted:


"Netcode isn't hosed guys, its just that all the other players being around you (on an entirely different moon/planet/station) is making YOUR client have to work harder" are they serious? The fact that you client has to process any of that information at all means your netcode is hosed

reddit posted:

This cig response has me genuinely concerned. My concern has always been 'netcode' and how the amount of players effects fps, to a point where the game is not playable. If they have to reduce the amount of players to single digits then it isnt an mmo. Probably the first time I'de had serious doubts about the game, i've always just had faith that they would be able to make it work.

PederP posted:


Server FPS does not affect client FPS.
Server frames-per-second? Huh? Is the server rendering stuff? Best case he's trying to use terms the players understand - worst case the server is just a modified client acting as a "scene/level/map host". If that's the case the current server tech is a dead end, and needs to be ditched for an actual server implementation. From his tone, he's annoyed that the servers and netcode is being blamed for architectural issues. But even if the servers are not currently heavily loaded, they are not going to scale if they are frankenclients hosting "maps". I don't believe such an architecture can be incrementally reworked to do what they want.

Did they really not consider writing server-side software to run this? Bugs and instability when running an alpha with an active and demanding player base (not to mention the not quite feature-locked person in charge) is not entirely unreasonable. Ignoring the most important aspect of making an MMO - server tech - is not reasonable. And reading that post, I get a feeling there is no real server. If that's the case, I expect a Server 2.0 being announced at some point.

Toops posted:

I still can’t get over the fact that the CLIENT has to run every single player’s loving physics simulation. I mean jesus christ. Each client is ALREADY doing their own physics simulation locally, Just send the position updates to the server, what kind of broke rear end poo poo is this.

You know what this means right? If my client is running your physics simulation, you are sending me the hardware inputs for your mouse, keyboard, joystic, pedals, etc. How else would I run your physics simulation without inputs?

Now just multiply that by number_of_players_in_server. That sounds scalable right? Insane.

Either he’s lying, he’s wrong because he doesn’t understand game development, or he’s telling the truth. None of those are a good look.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 4

Sarsapariller posted:

Worth Watching: (video: ship explodes buggedly)


Scruffpuff posted:

This is something I called in my July blog two years ago, when I stated the following: "a project with at least one insurmountable problem never passes zero percent completion, no matter how many other development goals are met."

This is independent of Chris Roberts involvement being its own 100% guarantee of project failure.

CIG keeps showing these small, incremental pieces of complete bullshit, and passes each and every one of them off as progress toward some amorphous goal and endpoint. No, CIG, you're not X% completed - you're 0% completed, and you'll always be 0% completed no matter how much work you do, because your core technology is impossible as designed and built. You hosed up from the jump, and now you're full-on hosed and there's nothing you can do about it except scrap everything, fire Chris, start all over again, and plan it right. That's how you get past 0%.

Loxbourne posted:

The Tenets of the Cult of Christ Roberts and the Church of Latter-Day Star Citizens. The words carved on the golden pages of the Great Book of Dreams, whispered by everyone from Ben Lesnick on down:

Star Citizen is the BEST GAME EVER

Self-explanatory but also the tenet that needs the most proselytising and defending. Star Citizen is THE BEST and so it automatically gets associated in their minds with all the other BEST THINGS EVER (the theorycrafting, the dreams of massive battles, the org politics which every citizen expects to win, and so forth). A whole pile of weird citizen behaviour stems from the need to keep Star Citizen's reputation pristine - and in reality, to keep it on the pedestal in their minds. Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

Enter the conspiracy theories about Big Publishing Sabotage, the furious projection of SC's problems onto other games, and so on. P2W? Delays? Boring missions? Even being in alpha for an alarmingly long time. You can tell exactly what the backers are worried about in Star Citizen at any given moment by reading what they're accusing Elite Dangerous and Line of Defence of doing.

Star Citizen backers are an elite who have recognised an Important Project and invested in it.

Important for tribalism and also for a sense of self-importance. Citizens are big important people. They're saving PC gaming, you know. That's why we see weird misuse of financial terminology (pledges are an "investment") that can even be contradicted in the same post ("CIG owes you NOTHING"). Needless to say, the "invester" stuff gets cited when a Citizen wants to feel powerful and the Might of CIG (ironclad TOS, "refunds are scams", etc) gets invoked when a Citizen feels another citizen is getting uppity.

Chris Roberts is a genius who surrounds himself with other geniuses. He and his circle must not be judged by the standards of ordinary mortals.

The cult of personality. You gotta have faith in the man himself. Cultists can see Star Citizen is a vastly ambitious game that would normally be impossible to make, they just tell themselves Chris can make it because he's a genius. A hero from their childhood. Losing faith in Chris's ability to make the game, or his benevolent attitude towards his followers, is repeatedly described on the refunds subreddit as the moment people decided to pull out.

This is the tenet that supports and partially fuels the LARP-like behaviour from CIG (of course Chris's ego supplies the rest). Chris and CIG's uncontested genius is essential to silencing any doubts that might form. CIG has the best people working round the clock on Star Citizen! Networking guy is a "networking God", Sandi is "the best marketer ever", and so forth. Any of their employees must be the Best Guys Ever At X. And it's entirely acceptable to spend huge sums of money to buy top talent, who are instantly promoted to being top talent just because they work at CIG.

A CIG staffer who doesn't act like Top Talent rankles with the faithful. This is why you'll sometimes see cultists furiously decry a leaver or even an indiscreet current employee as only a minor flunky. He's not acting right to fit the vision in their heads of CIG's Mighty Beings. Chris's and even Sandi's behaviour is acceptable to the cult because that's just how their idea of a rockstar game coder acts. It's what they'd do if they were him.

I will get to fly my spaceship and it will be glorious and awesome and just like my dreams.

"DON'T TOUCH THE SPACESHIPS". Self-explanatory and also ineeringly precise. The cultist's specific dreams are the ones that Star Citizen will conform with. How long do you think B'Tak would last even in the game most of his fellow backers want to play? A citizen knows their ships will be amazing and totally worth the "investment" and let them live out whatever space dreams they've brought to the table from their own lives, without interruption from awkward deaths or risk of running out of content. A Cultist will never be bad at his chosen profession especially if that profession is "space badass". That's what the faithless masses are for.

As pointed out already, CIG messes with this at their extreme peril. The Grey Market can be accepted under this tenet because "a ship is worth the investment", but if CIG suggest a ship might not be as good as the citizens thought? FIRE AND WOE.

The masses will admire the ships I pledged to back. They will wish they had one and weep tears of longing.

The Citizens must have better ships than everyone else. They paid, dammit (in money, time, and faith), they suffered the jeers and mockeries of the knowlessmen. The Cult's promised heaven is a place where a Citizen can gun down latecomers and have them gasp in awe at his amaaaazing ships that he was granted as just recompense for his faith in the project. It's his rightful reward.

My dreams are important to CIG.

The theorycraft fuel. CIG is the best company and Star Citizen is the best game and it's going to be every good thing I ever dreamed of. The means by which CIG will design, implement, or even know of the Citizen's dreams are just a sacred mystery of the Cult.

Backers will hiss and snarl at CIG if this tenet is threatened, even though this seems contradictory to other tenets. If this comes under pressure, from CIG nailing down a mechanic or an ill-judged remark on a livestream, the cult get very angry and this morphs into a more threatening form: My dreams are shared by a silent majority who agree with me. CIG would be stupid to go against me and the secret army of backers who agree with me.

This creates one of the sadder cult beliefs - that CIG read the forums and monitor it for good ideas, so their theorycrafting will be recognised and put into the game. If one of the CIG leads said he never read Spectrum, there'd be an explosion within hours.

CIG will reward me for the faith I have shown. I rise in CIG's esteem by performing acts of faith.

This, this this this, is where a fundamental disconnect exists between CIG and its cult, and if the cult ever do rise up it will probably be because of a fracture that starts here. I could have phrased this as "CIG will reward me for buying more ships", but that's not actually how the fandom tell themselves the system works. Citizens believe they will catch CIG's eye and be rewarded for preaching, bringing in new backers (okay that worked for a while), posting praise on the subreddits, shouting down unbelievers, and owning goons/refunders/Derek with sick burns. don't rise in the fandom by showing faith. Maybe you did once - citizens can remember the days of beer shipments and gift crates and shoutouts on Around The Verse. But that doesn't work anymore. CIG just expect you to turn up to be milked and get very indignant when you don't. You gain CIG's attention by Buying More Ships. CIG are veeeeery careful to cloak Buying More Ships as having faith in Star Citizen. They call it pledging, they constantly thank backers for their support, they dole out rewards like PTU access. Backers see streamers who stream because they're paid by CIG marketing, but they're told that the streamers do it out of sheer love of the game. But the fundamental thing that gets a cultist that sweet, sweet attention from the Divine is to buy the current ship on sale. New cash only please, no melting.

CIG can only push this so far. Backers are possessive and resent any suggestion that others might be rewarded if they haven't shown sufficient faith (and every backer is sure they've shown more faith then their neighbours). The anger around the Evocati centres on the way CIG created an inner circle whose members weren't considered worthy amongst the wider community. Worse, Evocati members describe a broken game even if they do so in effusive tones. They should be singing hymns of divine ecstacy.


I won't claim this maps out all the tenets. There's one or two around Derek I want to explore in a later post (particularly the idea that the Cult has an ideal of Derek and actually likes it when he acts in certain ways). And most of this stuff is an unspoken understanding between backers rather than things they discuss in public. I've mapped these out largely by taking note of what makes Citizens rage the hardest.

But if you're wondering why an innocuous comment about network performance has produced an absurdly disproportionate response from the Backer Hordes...well, he contradicted one of the unspoken truths of the Faith. That must be shouted down, must must must, before it echoes for too long in a Citizen's mind and he starts to ask himself forbidden questions.

Golli posted:

Cloud Imperium Games LLC updated their California Statement of Information on 12/6/17 (2 years late).

The only changes of note are they finally notified the state that they are no longer on Sunset Blvd. and they changed the business activities from "Game Development and Publishing" to "Game Development"

So maybe they need a publisher now?

e: They also created a new LLC on 11/30/17. Roberts Space Industries LLC (a separate entity from Roberts Space Industries Corp)

Solarin posted:

Beet Wagon posted:

nothing shocking here, but extremely funny if true
crobcoin is in

AP posted:

You haven't considered meshed forums that will support thousands of blogs.

Eldragon posted:

Daztek posted:

Derek first had to build up his blogs, so technically crying wolf only started two weeks ago
You're right, Derek's Wolf Crying is still in alpha, and shouldn't be judged by normal "Called It" standards. It's well documented that Cassandra took 8 years to carve her omens into stone before presenting them to Agamemnon.

SC Thread posted:

On the twelfth day of Christmas, Chris Roberts gave to me

Twelve fudders fudding
Eleven whales a-milking
Ten united Stimpires
Nine days of mocap
(Ben) Eight all the pies
Seven frames per second
Six banks a-lending
Four polished turds
Three con men
Two turtlenecks

And an invite to Evocati.

Scruffpuff posted:

Here comes Crobber Claus
Here comes Crobber Claus
Right down Crobber Claus way
CIG needs all your money
Send it all their way

Christmas time means lots of JPEGs
They make everything right
Too bad there's not a game to play cause
Backers just ain't too bright

Breetai posted:

I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus,
Under the Christmas tree last night.
Sexual contact is a sin to the Stimperor,
So I set the two of them alight.

Mne nravitsya posted:

Just had a couple emails back and forth with an old friend who is in the LA office on this nightmare, and he essentially said that (for him personally) he is just there to pull a steady paycheck, and that he and a couple other devs are using CIG to pay the bills while they work during off times to develop their mobile game. He said that much of the “worker level people” in the company are using this as a “getting paid to work on their demo reels” type of gig, and nothing more, because the passion and morale are gone, and no one ever gets heard for their cool ideas, because management takes their ideas and presents them as their own to upper management.

Also dropped a little tidbit, that a couple of the trolls on Reddit (and maybe here, but he won’t elaborate) are actively trolling the community out of spite because they hate the company and need to burn off steam. I believe I know one of them in here, but he posts very infrequently, so I can’t pin him down yet.

Take it for what it’s worth

actually it is not entirely uncommon that angry employees do this from time to time - or put horrific easter eggs in games and movies that many people never catch - but occasionally they do. As Derek knows the old Fatbabies site, employees would go on their from time to time to rail against and attack people and employers about their/and others games, because they were so disenfranchised by whatever company/whoever manager they were working for.

The Game Illuminati was full of this for years as well.

Scruffpuff posted:

Not to spoil the E.L.E., but there's a money panic going on behind the scenes at CIG right now. It goes along the lines that CR thought the game would be done by now, and he also banked on selling fuckloads of copies "off the shelf."

Obviously neither of those things happened, or will happen. So now they're juggling the following hilariously contradictory financial balls:

- Need to reduce staff to cut costs
- Not making it look like they're cutting staff to cut costs
- Needing more staff to get the "game" working
- Added expense of hosting "MMO" style persistent game servers
- Keeping the ship sales coming to cover those added expenses
- Having nothing to show that would encourage continued spending

And last but very much not least:

- Rejuvenating the existing flagging backer morale for more cash
- Hilariously, and I am not making this up, a marketing push for SQ42 meant to compete with COD and is literally being counted on to bring in millions in new money

Which ball will be dropped first, I wonder?

Hint: the SQ42 major-league push, along with all its advertising and marketing, was supposed to be ready to roll by this Friday's launch of The Last Jedi.

It was supposed to be ready, but it's not. The deadline was officially missed. It doesn't really matter what they show now, or when they show it. The date was everything.


Good poo poo. Like actually previews in theaters?
Actual financial forecasting was done based on that becoming reality.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Twas the night before Christmas, when all thro' the house
Not a peripheral was working, not even my mouse;
The locks were spun by the coders with care,
In hopes that St. Roberts soon would be there;
The vackers were nestled all snug in their pods,
While visions of pirate slavery danced in their heads

And Moma in her 'kerchief, and I in my cap,
Had just settled our brains for a long winter's parp—‌
When out at the door there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the pod to see what was the matter.
Away to the carpet I glitched in a flash,
Tore open my anus, and threw up udhelsgsvwof.
The moon on the breast of the naked commando,
Gave the luster of mid-day to objects below;
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature sleigh, and eight tiny engineers,
With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Roberts.
More rapid than eagles his hands explained,
And he whistled, and shouted, and call'd them by name:
"Now! Lando, now! Lesnick, now! Brian and Tony,
"On! Erin, on! Sandi, on! Coders and Artists;
"To the top of the cash! To the top of the pile!
"Now sale away! Sale away! Sale away all!"
As dry leaves that before the aegis hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, blast off to the sky;
So up to the stratosphere the coursers they flew,
With the engine full of bugs—‌and St. Roberts too:
And then in a twinkling, I heard on the spectrum
The prancing and pawing of each hand waving.
As I dreamed in my head, and was turning around,
Down the turret St. Roberts phased through the bound(ary):
He was dress'd all in black, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnish'd with coke stains and soot;
A bundle of ideas was flung on his back,
And he look'd like a peddler just opening his pack:
His eyes‍—‌how they twinkled! His dimples: how merry,
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry;
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the teeth of his grin was as white as his snow;
The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath.
He had a broad face, and a little round belly
That shook when he laugh'd, like a bowl full of jelly:
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laugh'd when I saw him in spite of myself;
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head
Soon gave me to know I had everything to dread.
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And hosed all the cvar lines; then turn'd with a jerk,
And laying his finger aside of his nose
And giving a nod, he winked as he rose.
He sprung to his porsche 1911 sport coupe with all the options and gols rims witha "cuckable" license plate,
And drove away in the sunset, to release another product late
But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight‍—‌

Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 5

D_Smart posted:
(tweet: CryTek has followed through on its threat to sue RSI/CIG for a litany of things, and have hired one of the best law firms in the US. *link to filing*)

It wasn't long before someone paid the site's fee and posted the entire complaint here and the drama was afoot.
CryTek's lagal representation is Skadden, so called "Wall Street's Most Powerful Law Firm"
"Skadden. The name, terse and uncompromising, symbolizes the most rarefied levels of corporate law, where clients throw platoons of attorneys at a problem and barely blink at the resulting $50,000-an-hour bills."

Recomended musical accompanyment to this update:

TheAgent posted:

this is bad. like really bad


Section 2.1.2 of the GLA expressly states that CIG has a license only to "embed CryEngine in the Game and develop the Game." The GLA limits the use of the CryEngine computer program to a single video game called Star Citizen.

21. Exhibit 2 of the GLA states that "the Game does not include any content being sold and marketed separately," such as content "sold and marketed as a separate, standalone PC game."

22. On December 16, 2015, Defendants announced that "Squadron 42," a single-player video game involving space combat, would be sold separately from Star Citizen.

23. On January 29, 2016, Defendants made a further public announcement about Squadron 42, stating that it would be made available for purchase as a stand-alone video game.
24. On February 5, 2016, Crytek notified Defendants that their plan to distribute Squadron 42 as a standalone game was not covered by the GLA's license, because the GLA did not grant Defendants a license to embed CryEngine in any game other than Star Citizen.

25. On February 14, 2016, Defendants moved forward with their plan for Squadron 42 notwithstanding their failure to obtain a license and began offering the video game for separate purchase. As a result, Defendants are intentionally and willfully using CryEngine without a license and in violation of copyright laws.

26. On December 23, 2016, in reference to Star Citizen and Squadron 42, Defendants announced that "oth games are currently in development and are backed by a record-breaking $139 million crowd funded effort."

27. Crytek has not been compensated for Defendants' unlicensed use of Crytek technology in the Squadron 42 game, and has been substantially harmed by being deprived of that compensation, which would ordinarily include a substantial up-front payment as well as a substantial royalty on game sales.

lol at CIG hoisting themselves from their own petard

the great thing is you can be a layman and totally see how loving bad this is

that filing is a goddamn bullet to the back of the head

Virtual Captain posted:


On May 6, 2015, Defendants began posting a series of videos online titled "Bugsmashers." The videos contain excerpts of information from CryEngine that were confidential, in breach of the GLA, and should not have been shown to the public. The series continues today.
CryEngine choice never seems to stop paying dividends... in comedy gold.

TheAgent posted:

this could easily be a $50m to $100m+ lawsuit


B. Defendants Removed Crytek Trademarks and Copyright Notices from Their Games and Marketing Materials Without Permission
28. Sections 2.8.1, 2.8.2, and 2.8.3 of the GLA contained promises by Defendants that they would prominently display Crytek's trademarks and copyright notices in the Star Citizen video game and related marketing materials.

29. Section 2.8.1 of the GLA expressly states that the "splash screen, credits screen, documentation and packaging (if any) as well as the marketing material" shall include "Crytek's copyright notice."

30. Section 2.8.2 of the GLA further states the "splash screen, credits screen, documentation and packaging (if any) as well as the marketing material" shall prominently display both the "Crytek" and "CryEngine" trademarks.

31. Section 2.8.3 of the GLA states that any changes to Crytek's trademarks and copyright notices in these materials requires "Crytek's prior written approval" and a ten day approval period.

32. In accordance with those provisions of the GLA, the Star Citizen video game initially contained a splash screen that included Crytek's trademarks and copyright notices:

33. Defendants knew Crytek's right to display its trademarks and copyright notices in the Star Citizen video game and related marketing materials was a critical component of the GLA. Yet, by at least September 24, 2016, Defendants' co-founder Chris Roberts publicly sought to minimize Crytek's contribution to Star Citizen, stating that "we don't call [the video game engine] CryEngine anymore, we call it Star Engine" (
especially since CIG has stood from the hills proclaiming all their cash coming in and tracking it by the hour


Scruffpuff posted:

"I think you'll see, your honor, that CIG in fact didn't develop ANY video games, so we move to dismiss, please. Checkmate legal goonie!"

TheAgent posted:

holy gently caress at them not providing code fixes and improvements back to crytek as part of their agreement


40. Section 7.3 of the GLA contained a promise that Defendants would provide bug fixes and optimizations to CryEngine on at least an annual basis.

41. Section 7.3 of the GLA states that "[a]nnually during the Game's development period, and again upon publication of the final Game, Licensee shall provide Crytek with any bug fixes, and optimizations made to the CryEngine's original source code files (including CryEngine tools provided by Crytek) as a complete compilable version."

42. On November 16, 2015, Crytek requested long overdue bug fixes and optimizations from Defendants. Defendants did not make a good faith effort to provide Crytek with the promised bug fixes and optimizations to the CryEngine as a complete compilable version.

43. On November 24, 2016, Crytek informed Defendants that they were in breach of Section 7.3 of the GLA. Although Defendants claimed that they were ready and willing to comply with their obligations, they did not comply.

44. On June 22, 2017, Crytek sent another letter to Defendants, again requesting the bug fixes and optimizations that were promised under the GLA. To date, Defendants have not made a good faith effort to provide Crytek with the promised bug fixes and optimizations to the CryEngine as a complete, compilable version.

45. Crytek has been damaged by Defendants' breach of Section 7.3 of the GLA, including for the reason that Defendants have failed to provide the technology to Crytek that they promised to Crytek under the GLA, and Crytek accordingly has not benefited from use of that technology.
this is absolutely huge

like you can't just loving do that

what was roberts loving thinking

this isn't some frivolous lawsuit, this is a massive breach of almost every part of the contract they signed with crytek lol

TheAgent posted:

gently caress me I think this is probably the worst bomb right here


entering a permanent injunction enjoining and restraining Defendants from continuing to possess or use the Copyrighted Work and a preliminary and permanent injunction requiring Defendants, and all those acting in concert or participation with Defendants, from infringing or encouraging, aiding or abetting others to infringe the Copyrighted Work;

that basically means 'You can't use a single line from our engine, anywhere. Anywhere at all.'

finally time for that full engine rewrite!

VictorianQueerLit posted:

Yeah I know nothing about legal matters but seeing about 40 different clauses of the GLA being breached is a pretty clear indication to even a layman of the scope of this.

"They contractually agreed here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here to provide things they did not provide and are unquestionably in breach of contract"

I'm sure the legendary genius visionary Chris Roberts is going to reverse this 40 point takedown in court somehow. He is obviously doing everything completely flawlessly and the dream will be amazing.


Christmas miracles really do happen

Dusty Lens posted:

We're now at 2:05 in The Hall of the Mountain King.

TheAgent posted:

this also means that the faceware camera might completely be stalled, as the underlying technology was shared with them without CryTeks approval


On August 26, 2017, news reports announced a partnership between Defendants and a third party developer, Faceware Technologies. Upon information and belief, as a result of the partnership, Faceware received access to the underlying technology for CryEngine (including computer source code). Defendants did not disclose this third party developer's involvement to Crytek, let alone obtain Crytek's prior written approval. This was entirely in breach of the GLA.


VictorianQueerLit posted:

News hit the r/starcitizen discord. Some highlights


CIG bundles SQ42 and SC into one game pack toss the Crytek logo on the start up screen don't show any behind the scenes screens and pay a few mill and be done with it


Plus there are probably hundreds of loopholes and "language" in the contracts etc that lawyers will spend 5 years go over and will probablt end up with a small settlement


Copyright is stupid for coding that way
coding is viewed as an art form, and is only covered verbatim


We'll make the owner of CryEngine disappear


amazon will just give CIG money to fight it

Backers haven't decided how they want to spin this yet. They are furiously bouncing between

CryTek just wants Money!
StarEngine isn't CryEngine!
Lumberyard isn't CryEngine!
StarEngine both is and is not Lumberyard which is not CryEngine!
They can just throw logos in and be done with it!
Just starve Crytek out, they will run out of money to sue!
Amazon will save the day!

BeigeJacket posted:

Derek Smart has covered himself in glory.

tuo posted:

Ortwin will come out as the ultimate inverse-reverse-super-troll.

Crytek: "gently caress, no one wants to license our engine as it's a kinda one-trick-pony, and sucks at multiplayer....we're running out of cash, and can't do anything about it"
Ortwin: "I know this one guy - stupid as a brick - who once made Wing Commander...he still has a big following, and the gerne is kinda dead....they all long for a spacesim MMO"
Crytek: "You can't make an MMO with our engine, it won't work!"
Ortwin: "I know...." *evilgrin* *ortwin buys Crytek shares at min value*
(tweet: looks like @Crytek is hurting for money so they want to pick on @RobertsSpaceInd I really hope Chris unleashes the full fire and fury that is Ortwin; Hey @Crytek get over the butt hurt!)
(tweet: I just think it’s s big waste of court time and our pledge money. Maybe I should sue @Crytek for trying to take my $52K)

Virtual Captain posted:

I thought Clifford was dedicated to the dream. Now I find out he is only in for $52K?

Weak. Pledge harder next time.

Nyast posted:

Well, the pretty funny thing is that they're hosed no matter what the truth is ( assuming Crytek's claims are right ofc ).

If they indeed switched to LY, that was against the terms that said they should use CE exclusively.

If they did not switch, showing the source-code to Faceware was against the terms that said they needed to seek authorization before doing so.

Pick up your poison.

TheAgent posted:

naw, like derek said, this is the first stumble down a long flight of stairs

every hosed over partner, everyone they owe money to, anyone that even thinks they might not get cashed out from roberts n co is going to start coming to collect what's theirs

I'm not overstating when I say this is a huge loving deal

Crazypoops posted:

I just love how royally hosed they are no matter what. They can't say they didn't switch engines because of all of the points they broke, but they can't say they switched either because that is ALSO breaking the contract.

Dogeh posted:

To the newly registered Skadden lawyers dudes who just registered an SA account

HycoCam posted:

CIG is going to claim: Game? What game? All we have is an alpha tech demo at best. There is no game here. SQ42 and Star Citizen is simply market speak for raising money--they are both the same thing! Missing splash screen logos? These are test builds--you don't understand game development.

And as was called long ago--all CIG has done with Lumberyard is change a few calls to work with Amazon servers instead of Google. i.e. CIG never broke the switching engine clause because they never really switched engines.

But I'm only hoping for maximum comedy. And probably the funniest will be the Skadden lawyers figuring out there hasn't been any money for six months plus.

ewe2 posted:

Here's a little song I wrote, you might want to learn it note for note, don't worry be happy

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

[Fetching Legal Documents]

peter gabriel posted:

CryTek: 'So if we win we get everything?'
CryTek: 'Assets, rights, all of it?'
Lawer: 'yup, even their web site lol'
CryTek: 'and, and erm, their customers?'
Lawyer: 'yup, their customers, community, all of it'
CryTek: 'commm, community?'
Lawyer: Yes your honour our client would like to drop the case

That DICK! posted:

i just talked to a pretty fancy lawyer and he's not as optimistic about this lawsuit as most. he says sicne the game isn't out and probably won't ever be they basically can't show profits and any money they collect related to the crowdfunding stuff would have to be stipulated in the contract CIG breached. also the permanent injunction only barely maybe stands a chance as it relates to squadron 42 not star citizen because that's all contract breach stuff not copyright infringement stuff

bandaid.friend posted:

Star Citizen is undone due to Face Over IP. Incredible

If this mob was going to fall apart over anything, it'd be the most extravagant and useless feature-promise they never actually included in the game

alphabettitouretti posted:

Yeah they're turbofucked. The very best case is this is without merit and thrown out the moment it gets in front of a judge, and there's no other 100% guaranteed legal action coming their way (lol).

Even then it will have (or has?) done so much damage to their already terrible reputation they'll never recover. It'll be that much harder to hire staff, and the backers they rely on will lose confidence. They aren't a normal company with a viable product and steady income, they're operating on presales in the hope of actually finishing something one day and it being a huge success.

Star citizen is a big joke and is going to go down in infamy. Crobbers legacy is going to be overseeing one of the biggest disasters in gaming history.

peter gabriel posted:

No, there is no other road than 100% comedy here.
Take for example the best case scenario for backers - CIG wins, Crytek are defeated and Star Citizen releases.
Every. single. time. a backer loads the game up, there will be a Crytek logo there and every time the backer will feel impotent rage. Each session in the 'Universe will begin with a feeling of resentment.

Beet Wagon posted:

Hey remember when we were all like "haha lol the only devs they have are brand new FullSail grads" and reddit was like "Nuh uh they're all experts"



Sunswipe posted:

It's kinda funny how CIG will be in full crisis management mode over something and Ben's Twitter just has something like "They're not printing any Star Trek books this month. "

226 posted:

Don't worry guys Crytek is just about bankrupt anyway...

reddit posted:

If Cryteks employee count truly is over 550, that money would have been burned through quickly, especially given how bad their leadership seems to be.

mjotto posted:

If CryTek would go bankrupt, he could have continued to use his custom CE code without having to pay for it. That's probably why he didn't pay them, just waiting for them to fall over and having an engine for free. When Amazon saved CryTek, Chris knew he was hosed and had to pay CryTek. By switching to Lumberyard, he tried to avoid those costs. Probably.

Dusty Lens posted:

Monathin posted:

I really, honestly, 100% doubt there's going to be a settling out of court. As multiple people who know better than me covered, you don't go to Skadden if you're planning to just 'settle out of court'. These guys don't get out of bed for anything but blood in the water. And I feel like CIG couldn't actually settle with what they have on tap, nor would they - it seems entirely CIG to try and fight this out without realizing how horrifically outmatched in the legal department they currently are.
Man when you put it that way it sounds like CIG's legal defense is Toast.

Gramps posted:

I can't fathom that any Shitizen would think that Crytek hired Skadden for a quick 100k or so. 1/4th of the team that peeled a half billion off of oculus is going to do similar work for less than a thousandth the payday? Not fuckin likely, bucko. Each lawyer on that team is going to pocket 7 figures minimum. I really do feel bad for the people who just wanted to play a fun cool game, but goddamn man. From an observer's perspective this whole endeavor seemed like a kid who won a paper airplane contest in middleschool decided to crowdfund a mission to proxima centauri. Actually that's a bit generous as I think the average bright middle school kid probably has better organizational skills than the Crobbler

AP posted:

This goes to the heart of what has happened to all the money in my view.

Chris Roberts couldn't have built the demo without Crytek, on kickstarter launch day CIG's (subcontractor, built) website crashed, so CIG switched subcontractors to Turbulent. This is a pattern that repeats, there are so many ex-subcontractors, Turbulent are understandably a lot harder to ditch now than normal.

Turbulent - Web platform, Spectrum, store, sales - Montreal, Canada

Behaviour Interactive - Concept art, Ships, 890 Jump, x85, mobiGlas, hangar flair - Montreal, Canada

CGBot - Artwork - Mexico Probable source of the leak from 2013

IllFonic - FPS module/1st unfinished version of Star Marine - Denver

Moon Collider - Kythera Artificial Intelligence middleware - Scotland

Rmory - weapon concept art - Bavaria, Germany

The Imaginarium - 63+ day Failed motion capture shoot - London

Wyrmbyte - Network engineering, Universe, Servers - Louisville Colorado

Virtuos - Ships, 1st version of the Cutlass, props - Shanghai, China

RedHotCG - props - Shanghai, China

voidALPHA - environment & concept art - Emeryville, California

Not even sure this covers all the ones we know about (faceware, Side for casting etc), never mind the ones that were never made public. Now consider that Chris Roberts doesn't seem able to do much himself, so he hires people, after a while the relationship normally ends. It now appears, the relationship sometimes ends very badly

ComfyPants posted:

Crobby! We gotta go back! Back to before the "engine switch!" Something's gotta be done about your lawsuits!

D_Smart posted:

FYI, today was just the tip of the iceberg.

What comes next, and which I've also been sitting on for months, is bigger than this CryTek lawsuit, and even more hilarious.

If you need more breakdown, some "Actual Copyright Attorney" reads the entire document for 1 hour:

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Dec 20, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 6

Tokamak posted:

CIG forked CryEngine 3.7 and modified it by over 50%.
Amazon forked CryEngine 3.8 and modified it by over 50%.
CIG rebased their branch onto Amazon's branch of CryEngine.
Miraculously this took 'a couple' of developers, 'a couple' of days.
Of course this is how code works.
Welcome to Star Citizen.

The_Groove posted:

juggalo baby coffin posted:

did anyone make a joke about going from face over ip to case over ip?
more like hand over IP

TheAgent posted:


I liked the games that Erin Roberts produced and always held out this idea that he was a good candidate for making Sq42 and somehow a beacon of sanity.

Will you tell us all the ghost stories and reasons why that isn't so?

Here's the hilarious breakdown of Erin Roberts:

Fucks off from Tt fusion to join up with his brother Chris Roberts, killing most of the company by poaching any single loving person that would go with him
Before that works at Tt fusion making some parts of Lego games
Tt fusion is actually just a renamed company called Embryonic Studios Limited
Embryonic Studios Limited is actually just Warthog Games (same people heading it, including the much lovely named Derek Senior)
Warthog Games is basically just Gizmondo Europe

if you don't know what the gizmondo is



The Gizmondo was further overshadowed when Swedish press revealed criminal pasts of several executives, causing their resignations including Tiger CEO Carl Freer. Director of Gizmondo Europe Stefan Eriksson was involved in a Swedish criminal organisation, the "Uppsalamaffian" (the Uppsala mafia). By February 2006, the company was forced into bankruptcy after amassing US$300 million debt, and the Gizmondo stopped production. Weeks thereafter Eriksson crashed a rare Ferrari Enzo driving at 162 mph in California, and was later jailed for the crash and his criminal offenses.

like how anyone could look at Erin and think "golly gee, the guy who helped scam 100s of millions from investors can sure produce a game" just lol

D_Smart posted:

I expect that I'm going to be busy with interviews, streams, my Star Citizen book (talking to Amazon Publishing and others) etc.

Toops posted:

At my current company, every single programming language, library, package, etc has to be cleared with legal. This is a Java shop, with a Node-based front-end, so... that's a lot. Every class file has to have an up-to-date copyright header. I leave comments in code reviews all the time to the tune of "please update the copyright header." Now, the punk-rear end "gently caress yeah!" skateboarder rebel in me is like "jesus christ this corporate poo poo is a stupid waste of time," but the professional adult knows that when you screw this kind of thing up, you put your company and everyone that works there at risk.

My hot take, CIG thinks of themselves as this plucky hotshot hacker kid with business savvy that's going to "disrupt" the big pub stranglehold like Uber or some poo poo. Well Chris, welcome to Earf. You're not very important, you're not very smart, and you have hosed up far too hard for far too long. Hold on to your butt.

kw0134 posted:

Amazon has no dog in this fight. It could arise that someone at Amazon induced a breach of contract, but that should be unimaginably stupid that in this saga where there's always more and it's even dumber then you could have imagined, I draw the line there.

Even if all the stupid fell out of CIG's head and landed in a puddle at Amazon's feet, the damages likely won't amount to too much as it's not like Amazon's made a lot of money off Lumberyard. There's no unjust enrichment by Amazon, they don't seem to have diverted profit that would have gone to Crytek but for their theoretical interference.

Crytek is going for the jugular. Amazon didn't get to where they are by jumping in between a pitbull and one of the millions of vendors that happen to be using their platform. Indeed, it's more likely they'll shove CIG in front as an ablative meat shield if it came to it.

SomethingJones posted:

Skadden and Crytek have just gone all in with a two-pair and a Queen and we haven't even seen the flop yet. Ortwin and Chris are sitting across the table with a sheet of paper with the WingDings font printed out on it.

SomethingJones posted:

Star Citizen: Around the Verse
Dec 14 2017

Clive Johnson (Lead Network Programmer):
Last week we've been fixing issues, em, probably most notably there was a bug were if the server had been running for about 6 hours the PHYSICS TIME WOULD START GOING BACKWARDS

One of our network guys spotted the issue, put a fix in, and now time always goes forwards... which is good to know

Drunk Theory posted:

So that's why development has only started yesterday. loving time has been running backwards.

Virtual Captain posted:
"Chris really wants it that you can basically hit aerodynamic limits [...] and I think that's what Chris would wants us to get towards. It's quite complicated to try and work out where those forces are because we don't have like a full on fluid simulation that you would have in like [a] professional flight simulator"

The Titanic posted:

Nobody will ever ask “so uh... why didn’t you just adhere to your written contractual agreements?” Because that’s simply absurd!

I think it’s glorious that Chris Roberts’ lack of ability to estimate project lengths is really what has killed him here. This project wasn’t supposed to last this long, and he screwed it up.

I want to picture him lording over an ungodly jira backlog, shouting at it and waving his hands, “why can’t I loving estimate you right!!!” As he has “Redefine Internet Communication” with 6 story points. “Human Like AI” with 4 story points. And one “Build Game” thing that has 10.

According to loving jira it’s already done!!! Ggrrarr!!!

The way CR designs games is similar to that picture of a really complex drawing that has two frames of “use a few basic shapes to get your bearings” and then the second picture is the complete version with “finish the loving drawing”.

Here is one of them. This is the Chris Roberts development method. There’s no connection between the start and the end, poo poo just loving Magic’s itself together and presto you done redefined and saved PC gaming!

The Titanic posted:
(tweet: I'm looking at Star Citizen again and breathing in and out of a paper bag to calm down *image of $13,000 expresso installation*)

I always love when somebody says “I just know those dirty goons and Derek are lying... I’m going to just do a little tiny bit of research here to prove them wrong and- oh my loving god.”

hot balls man no homo posted:

RSI Site posted:

The team will continue looking into performance aspects, so that we can ship the initial version of 3.0 without disastrous client performance.
Client now runs better than disastrous. It is slightly better than a catastrophe but still not good enough to be considered a clusterfuck. Catastrophuck stage if you will

AbstractNapper posted:

- No publishers.
- The crowdfunded money are way better utilized
- Shorter development time
- No focus on bogus demos for big gaming conferences
- Delivery on (2) games within 2-3 years, otherwise things become stale

- partnerships with (at the least) Amazon, Intel, AMD, and arguably Crytek who provided additional funds. Signed contracts have started to backfire.
- Development hell, investments on 3rd parties that were commissioned to do work were thrown to the fire pit, numerous companies started all around the world for no apparent reason. Backers are expected to keep funding at a regular basis to get "the better experience possible".
- Five to six years in development, still in pre-alpha, non-existent gameplay loop.
- Plenty of bogus demos, unrelated to whatever turds they actually "release". Marketing tactics that are way past borderline sleazy.
- Backers get to play the broken pre-alpha demo, which is laggy, buggy, crashy and choppy as hell and on top of that they are segmented in tiers of Avocados, Subscribers and plebs who still don't get to play the 3.0 pre-alpha. Feature creep is out of control.

This is all good for Star Citizen because at least CIG tries, Crobblz is a genious and, most importantly, DREAMS.

reverend crabhands posted:

- Coutts did their due diligence, Coutts was aware when they handed over the dosh for Sq42 rights
- But SQ42 is essentially running on an unlicensed engine, Coutts knew this, CIG knew this
- Crytek threatening SQ42 maybe have been "encouraged" by Coutts
- Coutts now take SC ownership since that was the collateral offered and CIG took the loan under false pretences
- Crytek, due to previously signed deal, force CIG to back SC out of Lumberyard
- Ben Parry has to draw a new diagram to show how easy this is
- SC drags on whales being milked for eternity


Phi230 posted:

I pray that this goes to trial because that is the funniest option

I Greyhound posted:

I've been involved in a few patent and civil liability suits, and those rarely go to trial, but they do often involve a lot of discovery and depositions and reports before they settle. A lot of the time, the two sides consider it worth going through those initial expenses to size up their chances, and also to try to get a better settlement, so it's not uncommon for settlements to be reached the day before the start of the full trial.

EminusSleepus posted:

All this talk about "discovery" can someone enlighten me? Is it a new ship?

XK posted:

I just saw the argument that CIG can settle by giving CryTek a portion of sales of only the game packages. All the ship sales are separate, so they don't have to give any of that money. Therefore it will only be a few million.

Dusty Lens posted:

Crytek: Hello your client broke the contract.

CIG lawyers who also worked at Crytek which is fun: Yes that is correct.

Crytek: We want X money or we go to trial. Do you want trial?

CIG lawyers: We do not want trial. No one wants trial. Trials are expensive and everyone loses money.

Crytek: Ok yes, give us money.

CIG lawyers: Ok here is money/we do not have money take something else which you can turn into money.

Probably going to go something like that. Like 90% of civil cases that never go further than a tastefully decorated office in a nice building somewhere in LA.

D_Smart posted:

Right now, the plan is for hardcover, paperback and Kindle. So anyone buying and send me their copy in a self-addressed return mailer, will get it signed.

And I don't care how many pages it takes, all Goons actively involved in this drama since The July Blog, will be listed individually. I am still waiting on legal to let me know if I can in fact use the memes which have become part of the drama culture. Though they are in public domain, the ones I use, I may just need a waiver from the creators. But I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

I am also considering doing an audio book of all the blogs, and all the key articles I have written. Just need to figure out if I am going to narrate it, of have a voice actor do it; since I know several who have worked with me on games over the years.

peter gabriel posted:

I don't care about the law stuff, it'll get funny on its own.

What is currently tickling me is:

CryTek made the entirety of the Kickstarter stuff that backers swooned over
Backers now hate CryTek
By extension they hate Star Citizen

kw0134 posted:

Every insider should have seen this suit coming. These aren't obscure clauses like the infamous "bowl of M&Ms without any brown ones," these would go to the very heart of why there's a commercial relationship between the two parties. And at least on the allegations, everyone's seen that CIG has very loudly advertised what in retrospect is rather damning evidence. We're not testing the limits of IP law or needing to go on fishing expeditions through the parties' paper trail, Crytek is alleging that anyone with a pair of eyes would be seeing enormous breaches of the contract, things that are still happening to this day with the latest release of Bugsmashers.

CIG, given some rope, crafted an elaborate noose with flashing LED lights and a pyre to burn the entire gallows in a fantastic display of light and sound. It's legal self immolation on a ridiculous level.

reddit posted:

I've probably put maybe 15-20 hrs into 3.0 and filed dozens of issues. I've never actually completed a mission. Not one. Comedy of errors:
- Pick up cargo, get the glitch where it attaches to my hand, cannot place it
- Pick up a black box, it is bugged and cannot pick up
- Pick up cargo correctly, unable to place it anywhere on my Connie
- Connie ladder of death
- Try and zero G out of my Titan cockpit, get glitched and am unable to EVA anywhere
- Finally pick up cargo, place it, game crashes
- Finally pick up cargo, place it, mission never updates
- Try and find missing crew, mission just ends while I am roaming the wreckage
- EVA into my Titan with cargo, glitch and die
- EVA into my Cutlass with cargo, glitch and die
- EVA out of my Titan, grab cargo, return to Titan to see it doing the fun pre 3.0 spin of death
- Grab cargo, EVA back into my Cutlass, place it, doorway to cockpit won't open

Never mind the undestroyable pirates. I just spent 20 min dogfighting a cutlass only to have it finally just disappear. I know it's alpha, I am just wondering if others suffer the same degree of fail.

Lechtansi posted:

My favorite thing thats happened in the last few days is that when the Shitizens quote CIGs response to crytek, they've edited out the infringing part.

“We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. CIG hasn’t used the CryEngine for quite some time since we switched to Amazon’s Lumberyard. This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek any costs incurred in this matter.”


“We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek any costs incurred in this matter.”

Because thats totally how the law works.

Loxbourne posted:

In his hour of triumph, I'd like to devote an effortpost to Derek Smart himself. A dangerous past-time, perhaps, but an important question to ask. I'm here for the laughs like most of the thread but I also want to see CIG pulled apart and picked over. I want to read Coutts' debtor reports, see the forensic accountants go over the books, get as many backers out as are willing to be saved. Taking CIG apart properly means doing ballistic analysis of the huge great burning trail blasted through it by one man.

So who IS that masked warlord? More to the point, why did one guy with a twitter account end up a furious lightning-rod for the hatred of hundreds of backers, single-handedly attracting the ire of a massive community that should (and once did) have had more than enough to amuse itself with throughout Star Citizen's development.

It's been pointed out, more than once, that there wouldn't be a cult without Derek. That the existence of an active hate figure to strive against was what was needed to push a mildly toxic fandom into a full-blown horror where people compete to throw all their worldly goods as fast as possible into the gaping maw of CIG. I don't actually agree with this sentiment. For one thing the fandom was toxic from the start, but I think even without Derek we'd still see a cult of some form. The cult is a side-effect of CIG's marketing techniques. They needed to milk their whales, to find people who will spend large sums of money and keep spending those sums without complaint as the game gets delayed again and again. That's not to say Derek hasn't left a massive mark on Star Citizen, of course. But he stepped into a role that was ready and waiting. If Derek did not exist it would have been necessary for the Citizens to create him.

I'm going to adopt some terminology here because it's crucial we (as obviously disinterested goons of Science ) keep two concepts separate. One of them is Derek Smart, human being with a twitter account. The other is THE SMART. Great Beast Who Is Called Warlord. Avatar of Big Publishing. The terrible being with eyes of fire and tongues of flame who rose from Internet Hell to destroy Dreams, who travels in a shrieking cloud of circling bats accompanied by the wails of the goons and dramatic choirs chanting in Latin.

That entity doesn't exist anywhere outside the Citizens' collective nightmares (and this thread's half-serious injokes), but it was already there long before Derek typed his first blog. He just put a name and a face to it. THE SMART is, of course, the personification of backer nervousness. Their fear the game genuinely is impossible to make, that Chris is overpromising, that the funding won't hold up. The entirely rational fears it is quite normal to hold even if one has plenty of faith in the project. It might not work out, and if it doesn't...well, there goes their dream and their money too. A lot of their money. Life-changing, farm-mortgaging, marriage-ending amounts.

I'd bet that same money that the first thing many citizens said to themselves when Derek first crossed their radar was "Of course...". Of course there would be an Anti-Crobbler. Of course someone would rise to fight the glorious promise of Star Citizen. Of course there would be someone that evil, that diabolical, that beholden to dark powers, to try and take away their Dreams. He fits the worldview of a frustrated, aging nerd all too well. The reason I don't have nice things is because The Man keeps me down, and here he is right now tryin' to stop this Glorious Thing.

The real dark whisper of THE SMART (choirs) is that Star Citizen is never coming out. Your money has bought you nothing except a terrible tech demo and Chris's instagram gallery. You're not Han Solo, Captain Kirk, OR Mal Reynolds, you're still whoever you were before you bought your first ship.

That's bad. For some citizens - the saddest ones, the ones most in need of help - that's terrible. Hateful. Evil. It's also tremendously painful.

But it's also an entirely natural thing to think, just with basic human critical faculties. The ones CIG and one's fellow cultists spend so much time and energy suppressing. Cultists aren't (all) dumb, they're just caught in a system designed to switch their critical thinking off.

So THE SMART (choirs)'s real purpose, his real utility in the minds of Citizens, is as something to sublimate their misgivings onto. When CIG rides high, the Citizens are dismissive. When CIG hits trouble, they go fight Derek. When the crazier backers disappear from the fandom during a marketing fuckup, some of them go off and spout hate at Derek for a bit thinking that this would drive back THE SMART and make Star Citizen good again. I've talked about how Elite and Line of Defence are where the citizens project problems with the game; Derek is where they put their problems with themselves. A classic scapegoat. When a Citizen triumphs against Derek, he triumphs against the part of his brain that is saying "hold on, why are we spending so much cash here?"

Now, the man behind the mask didn't have to be Derek Smart. It was well on the way to being Beer4thebeergod for a while. The role would have fit any charismatic backer who pulled out early or any outsider who spoke out too loudly. David Braben would have fit (he's basically the current understudy). If nobody stepped forward to take the role, sooner or later it would have been Big Publishing or someone like Bobby Kotick. The cult would be much the same externally, spite pledges and all.

Derek proved an excellent candidate for the mantle. It requires a certain level of independence and thick skin just to sustain the requirements of the post. Someone with a day job would be at risk from being harassed so hard they actually stopped warlording (witness the Escapist and their poor journalist who was just too early). Derek has time and an independent income and a very thick skin indeed; he's pretty much immune to any weapon in the backer arsenal and that makes him a perfect Dark Lord.

Derek also knows his lines. He can sneer, he can mock, he fits the role of playground bully and he can be baited. He spouts heresies (leaks! ex-CIG employees saying nasty things!), he attracts followers (goons!), he plays the role of a cartoon villain excellently. Citizens naturally want to fight him to exorcise the cognitive dissonance, and as it happens Derek's up for the fight. The key is to remember that the Citizens already wanted someone to fight. They wanted to go find someone to dump their fears onto and vent their anger at. Derek was in the right place at the wrong time.

He doesn't fight fair though. He doesn't meet them on the field at dawn wearing black armour and carrying a sword of crying souls, then battle them for a day and night under a burning sky. Or at least he doesn't stop tweeting when a Citizen sends him what all his fellow Citizens assure him are SICK OWNS. The Citizenry resent that (then tell themselves that it's just proof of his treachery). The SMART role (choirs) includes striving to defeat CIG and all their works - but it doesn't include actually undermining CIG and their works or making the citizens ask themselves awkward existential questions. That's when they really, really loathe him.

And so Derek Smart the person is given an absurd level of power by citizens, elevated into a dark figure whose very existence harms Star Citizen...while at the same time, that harm is used to explain why Star Citizen isn't living up to their dreams yet. The Man, keeping them down. Remember, the key to the spite pledge is that proving THE SMART (choirs) wrong makes Star Citizen itself better. Because it makes the voices in the individual backers' heads shut up.

Of course THE SMART cannot be truly defeated until the Great Day of Release when Chris descends from Heaven etc etc - which is to say, it would come on the day Chris finally disproves the backers' misgivings by releasing the game - but surely He should have been forced into retreat by the same arguments the citizens use to reassure each other. That apocalyptic rhetoric was telling.

Now the game is facing an actual apocalypse we're not seeing any of this cartoon stuff anymore . We're seeing resentment and rage and threats of Internet Violence. Attempts to claim power over the situation with weird legal terminology and "affidavits". In other words, the standard reactions of obsessed, angry nerds when their worldview starts to falter. This is no longer a situation THE SMART (choirs) can help backers mentally come to terms with. It'll be interesting to see if they try to build a new one to encompass Skadden and Crytek.

If Derek really wanted the Citizens to love him forever, all he needs to do is don spiky black armour, wear a skull mask, then ride into CIG HQ by shattering the Space Door and carry off Sandi on a dark steed with glowing eyes. Citizens would pledge their entire worldly goods on the spot to form a Space Posse to go after him. If he then finished the storyline in their heads and shook his fist in defiance from the bridge of an exploding skull-faced Vanduul supercarrier (no doubt begging his dark EA masters for mercy as the ship burned around him), then he'd claim a world record for the most human beings simultaneously brought to orgasm in a 24-hour period and could single-handedly fund Star Citizen's development until 2025. Choirs.

Annoyingly however the Derek Smart who actually exists doesn't live in that world. He is a flawed Internet Satan. He lives over in reality, where the average citizen is that 43-year-old wages clerk in Idaho. He may be a single-minded old cuss who sustains himself on the rage of others (and he appears to be just fine with that), but his greatest sin is not playing along. Not actually being a proper scapegoat. Derek might actually win, and that's not in the Great Book of Crobblers at all.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I love the "I'm not in a cult, YOU'RE in a cult!" response. It's the perfect amalgamation of self delusion, sunk cost fallacy, and deflection.

peter gabriel posted:

Is there anything funnier than CIG being sued by CryTek for not fixing bugs in a timely manner?
Yes - CIG ran a series of videos called Bugsmashers throughout the entire time period in question

Scruffpuff posted:

Chalks posted:

CIG made a big fuss about their ground breaking hologram technology where they could create holograms of other game characters, claiming it had never been done before. As you can see from that footage, all they've really done is put a lovely hologram shader over the top half of a character model and clipped it half way through a table. Unfortunately they also failed to make it stop casting shadows so you see a full shadow of the entire model the whole time.
This it the thing about Chris, and CIG, that just blows me away every time. He literally reinvents the wheel every goddamed time. "Well our first "rotational transport facilitator" was a triangle, but it was kinda bumpy, but we iterated on the design and now we're on "rotational transport facilitator 2.0" which is an octagon. We've learned that the more sides it has, the smoother the sides, and less disruptive the "roll". Thanks for staying patient with us as we are developing technologies that have never been seen before."

G0RF posted:

Oh hell what a sight! Erris — just sitting there like a child in his Star Wars jammies and being told “Santa Claus is a lie - you think a fat guy is really sliding down billions of chimneys in a single night, delivering gifts to good little boys and girls? Really kid?”

Watching him try to handwave IP rights away as utterly inconsequential because IT’S THE PEOPLE WHO COME UP WITH THE IDEAS WHO REALLY MATTER is like a flustered child pushing back with, “... Santa has a magic sleigh that’s REALLY FAST and LITTLE ELVES that work for him and when he can’t fit down a chimney he sends them down or uses some other CHRISTMAS MAGIC to make it happen! You gotta believe!”

Here’s a 90 second summary of the world we actually live in, Erris.

Erris, you’re a grown man. Take off your Star Wars jammies and join us in the grown-up world. You’ve put it off long enough, man, it’s time. You can be an adult and still have childlike wonder, man — the world is full of moments of beauty, truth and goodness that can make even a cynic tear-up at the sight. But Star Citizen can not and will not be the machine that delivers them to you. You cling desperately to the promises of a man you know to be dishonest — brazenly deceitful yet you take consolation in the hope that he’s only delusional. But you know what kind of lunatic puts his trust in delusional men? A delusional man.

”Search your feelings, Erris... you know this be true.”

alf_pogs posted:

Ben on reddit posted:

Why is Star Citizen being split from Squadron 42?
Hello! The split is just for future purchases - they're separate games, so they'll be sold separately in the future. It doesn't impact any existing backers, who already have both in their packages. Basically, current backers got in early and got two games for the price of one. Folks in the future aren't as lucky. (As it should be... it was the early support from our original backers who made the game possible in the first place!)
every word these incompetent buffoons have spouted will help tighten the judicial noose

its kind of amazing. beautiful in a way

ewe2 posted:

Thank you all for a better than expected year. It's ending with a bang, and you can't ask for more. So in the spirit of the season, I give you:


Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 17, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 7

PederP posted:

I think the Coutts loan is a trivial detail in this story, and got blown out of proportion because some of the paperwork was public. Having to put up everything as collateral is a completely normal way to get a good deal on interest. Collateral and credit do not need to match in value, and in fact rarely do.

Golli posted:

Amazon has an article linked on their AWS | Lumberyard page that includes quotes from Carl Jones talking about the switch.

Carl Jones Interview posted:

Since you adopted CryEngine 3 before the free-license change, did the move to Lumberyard and its royalty free model, mean it was a cost saving for Cloud Imperium?
Well you can’t get better value than free, of course! In the future, it means we will be able to do a lot more for Star Citizen and Squadron 42 without being concerned about the cost of licensing technology, which is no bad thing, but it doesn’t make a huge difference for us economically, in the short term.
Was the decision to move to Lumberyard at all based on the financial difficulties faced by Crytek?
We certainly wanted a technology partner that could support us and be with us for the long term, investing in tools and technology year after year, which Amazon of course can uniquely deliver. But mostly we liked Amazon’s strategy for gaming, specifically with Lumberyard, Twitch and AWS. We knew that over time Amazon would create the best game engine and support technologies to enable and power online games using AWS – it’s inevitable and will be a big help to us and our community, now and in the future. We’re always looking long term at CIG, and with Amazon as a partner, we’re able to feel confident about the future.

Natron posted:

I just wanted to chime in with a quick effort post about something I keep hearing the dedicated citizens say. They keep claiming that the timing of this lawsuit is suspect and that Crytek is only doing this because they're out of money/failed/bad dudes.

I have a lot of experience creating and administering contracts both large and small. In a previous life I used to create large contracts as an architect for very complex renovation projects, and now I make small contracts as a service provider to architects and other designers, so I've been on both sides of these contracts. These are slightly different than a contract that a game studio and engine holder would enter into, but the tools and intents are the same.

The timing of the lawsuit is in no way suspect to me. Contracts are tools that provide two things(among others): a codified agreement between two parties, and a tool to navigate this agreement and make sure the other side is honest. It protects both parties, and gives both parties recourse in case the other party does something that isn't in the agreement or is against it. During the course of a complex project, you'll encounter many small instances where one side or the other will test the contract. These are like little micr-breaches of the agreement. It's usually just something small that happens during the course of a project that neither side anticipated, or one side didn't realize was actually a part of the contract at all. When these things happen, the side that believes it has been wrong just reaches out to the other side, and what usually happens is a dialogue where both sides make their point and agree to either amend the agreement to add in for this unforseen circumstance, or the side that didn't realize they were out of line must come back in line or offer some kind of recompense for their micro-breach. This is all usually done by the two parties and is almost always quite amicable.

A contract can be a kind of living document, so these changes are somewhat expected over the course of a long project, and sometimes these changes take time to make. The point of having a contract is to spell out exactly what you think should happen between two or more parties, so that no one needs to go to court. Sometimes, when one side does something that isn't allowed, it takes along time for the other side to notice, and the side that has been wronged doesn't immediately start making threats, they just open a dialogue instead. This negotiation can take quite a while and if the other party is loving up other parts of the contract while this negotiation is happening, it can complicate things quite badly and cause bad feelings on either side.

The main thing to realize is that all of this takes a lot of time. If you've ever been a freelance and had to chase someone down to get a cheque or to sign off on a final version of something, you know how this goes. You phone, they stop answering. You e-mail, they don't reply. I have a "payment due upon receipt" line in all of my contracts as well as on all of my invoices. I'd say I'm lucky in getting around 25% of those cheques within two weeks, even though we both agreed. You don't get lawyers involved immediately because going to court is expensive as gently caress for both parties, causes a lot of stress, and will almost always kill your business relationship with your client.

These breaches that Crytek is complaining about took place a long time ago, and they didn't want to go to a trial because they wanted to salvage what they could in their agreement. Going to court isn't something to take lightly, and is only done when all the bridges are pretty much burnt already. The reason this took so long is because it takes a long time to finally lose hope that the person or company you're dealing with is going to do the right thing as per the contract.

G0RF posted:

Note to the CIG Intern reading this thread for objectionable material for senior management: Do you really think Chris and Sandi need more crap to worry about right now? The dissent you’ve been long tasked with monitoring and cataloging has gone viral. It didn’t all originate here, or with Derek, it emerges naturally for reasonable minds paying passing attention to the non-stop marathons of self-owns, unforced errors, overpromises and undeliveries and uninterrupted lying that “filters from the top” of CIG. The true enemy of this project was within all along. They sent you here. So it really might be time to polish up that CV, file your honest Glassdoor take, and bounce to a better job at a company not in terminal decay spiral induced by moral turpitude and gross incompetence. You deserve better!

Latin Pheonix posted:

We don't have the GLA, nor do we know what communication took place between CIG and Crytek. What we can assume, however, is that:
1. Skadden are reasonably competent, given that they're considered a top international law firm; and
2. Skadden have pored through the GLA, any amendments and any communications between CIG/Crytek and felt that, on the facts discovered, they could make the five claims I'll talk about.

Because of these assumptions, I'm going to make some further assumptions of fact:
1. CIG/RSI had an agreement (GLA), and all the clauses mentioned in the complaint were in that agreement;
2. The agreement was never ended, either by a break clause exercised by CIG/RSI/Crytek, nor by mutual agreement; and
3. There were no automatic triggers in the GLA that ended the agreement (time limits, events, etc.).

With that in mind, let's get to the meat of the subject; Crytek's claims against CIG/RSI.


Claim 1: CIG/RSI are developing a second game without a license from Crytek.
This one is one of the simpler ones to confirm; we know for a fact that Squadron 42 was never a separate game from Star Citizen, this can be seen in the Kickstarter, where Squadron 42 is listed as the 'singleplayer component' of Star Citizen (i.e. it was just a game mode in a single game). Following the initial pitch of a single game, it was only later that CIG decided to split Star Citizen into two independent, separately playable, packages (note how Squadron 42 does not require Star Citizen to play). This split is where Star Citizen became two games, and the point where CIG appears to have breached its contract with Crytek.

Claim 2: CIG agreed to market Cryengine, including keeping its logo on splash screens, showing the trademark on the website, etc.
Honestly, this is a no-brainer, there's very little to dispute here; we know that CIG very likely breached this because there's tons of very public changes to the CIG website, launcher, splash screen, etc. where Cryengine/Crytek's logos were removed and Lumberyard replaced them. In fact, it was so noticable that the commandos shat a brick when it first appeared around this time last year with no announcement.

Claim 3: CIG agreed to develop Star Citizen exclusively on Cryengine.
Again, this is something so well documented and lauded that there is little more to add here. The backers have tried pointing out that it Lumberyard is based on Cryengine which they say muddies the legal waters, but the fact is that CIG had no permission to use another engine to develop Star Citizen. What the basis of these engines are is irrelevant, the clause would have been breached the moment they announced the change, started plastering Lumberyard logos everywhere and using Lumberyard's tools.

Claim 4: CIG agreed to send bug updates/improvements to Crytek.
There are two factors to consider here; the first being that Crytek claims that CIG did send some updates/improvements in 2015 but that they were insufficient and not in good faith, while the second factor is that Crytek claims that CIG did not send any updates/improvements for 2016-2017. On the first factor, there will likely be some contention by CIG regarding whether what was sent in 2015 was in good faith or not. This likely means that there will be some expert opinion on what CIG sent to Crytek in 2015 and whether it is enough to satisfy CIG's obligations to Crytek in this clause.

The second factor, however, would be much more clear-cut if true; if CIG did not send any updates/improvements over the last two years, then it's almost certain that this would be seen as a breach of their contractual obligations.

Claim 5: CIG breached Crytek's copyright by chowing Cryengine's code on Bugsmashers and third parties.
Ok, this one is outside my comfort zone, but I suspect it will be down to legal and expert opinion in this case. The main issue at hand is 'how much exposure of code in Bugsmashers is enough to constitute a breach?'. This is something that would require some degree of expertise in US copyright law (which I don't have since I trained in the UK) so I can't really answer this and would also likely require expert testimony in the form of a game developer. In addition, whether or not CIG was sharing code with Faceware is something that could only be determined by seeing what evidence Crytek has to show this. Do note, though, that Skadden wouldn't flippantly make such claims without some drat good evidence/legal knowledge to back them up.


Essentially, contract-wise, CIG would only come out of this unscathed if there was a break clause in the GLA that they exercised before claims 1-4 took place or if they otherwise mutually agreed with Crytek to do the same. Such a clause or agreement would be so obvious and such a basic thing to miss by Skadden that I cannot accept that this is the case here. CIG's response to the lawsuit (where they essentially agreed they breached claim 3) also displays an alarming(ly hilarious) degree of ignorance about the claims levelled against them.

Overall, this complaint makes a lot of things in CIG's past add up; the sudden change to Lumberyard makes sense if you consider that CIG was chained to an agreement with Crytek but saw an opportunity when Crytek suffered financial woes. My guess is that CIG couldn't get Cryengine to work for SC, saw Lumberyard and figured it would be easier to work with and then jumped ship, assuming that Crytek would simply disappear and no-one would pick up the contract and pursue them afterwards (or, alternatively, Chris didn't know that might happen or didn't care). The split of Squadron 42 may have been particularly scummy as it may have been CIG trying to stiff Crytek out of royalties for sales when it knew that Crytek would be unable to dispute their action (this is all just speculation, though).

tl;dr: CIG tried to gently caress over Crytek, thinking Crytek would go bust, and it came screaming back to bite them in the rear end.

DapperDon posted:

Abuminable posted:

If they get the injunction, it will be over faster than a glazed dozen within arm's reach of banditloaf.

G0RF posted:

Ben's story arc is just really amazing. After being raptured from the education system and snatched up to the opportunity of a lifetime to serve at the pleasure of his godking, he got to watch firsthand as that man destroyed — mistake after mistake, impulse after impulse, lie after lie — the greatest opportunity even bestowed upon an independent developer in gaming history.

Yet after all that, he really may end up unironically returning to the good work of cataloging Wing Commander arcana in the end. He took a pile of detritus off Sandi’s hands, stuff of interest to nearly no one besides Chris, Ben and a handful of whales of a certain age would possible give a crap about, yet with it he may find contentment and engagement for years more to come. Harkening back to the ‘greatness’ of what once was just as he did before Chris and Sandi came into his life, faithful until death.

Scruffpuff posted:

Ben is quite literally defective on a fundamental level. Something (or a great many somethings) are violently misfiring in his brain. I think a true victory is Ben snapping out of it, turning on CIG, and burying the true villains.

It totally won't happen. But in my private alternate universe I can imagine this ending any way I like.

D_Smart posted:

Today's wahlording unroll

CryTek's claims cites a breach for CIG/RSI not only showing the code during their Bugsmashers, but also sharing it with a third party, namely Faceware. Looking at the Lumberyard agreement, they have similar stipulations. So there is a possibility that if any Bugsmashers showed more than 50 lines of code, then arguably CIG/RSI are also in violation of the @AmznLumberyard agreement


when discussing Lumberyard Materials in our forums or elsewhere, you may include up to 50 lines of source code from the Lumberyard Materials for the sole purpose of discussing that code. You must identify us as the source of the code.
While this sort of accidental and incidental breaches are not worthy of lawsuits, the small claims in the CryTek lawsuit, tend to add up and compound the larger claims.

Bayonnefrog posted:

Still the the most compelling exchange in this whole saga and really ground zero for the anti-SC v SC people and the reason why I really got interested in this whole story. It was all to incredible. Here you have a paying customer (backer) laying out his arguments as to why he feels there are huge issues with how long the game is taking and why so little has been done and your #1 marketing person can't answer them at all except to get personal and defense. Utterly incredible and completely unprofessional. How could one customer service exchange cause them to get so unhinged? Because the insights Beer provides hit too close to home I think.

For someone claiming to be "the best salesperson in the world" (another incredible line and hilarious) she certainly did a terrible job of it in those emails. Instead of trying to sell it basically personally attacked a guy for having a different opinion. And for people wondering why the SC is toxic and insular it's because the top people leading the project (Sandi and Chris) are themselves as we just saw. Beer asking legit questions and she takes it all personal and basically tells him to f off.

Skadden will have a heyday with these people.

Worth Clicking: (video: CIG Community Manager reacts to follow from 'CryTek_Legal_Team')
Worth Clicking: (video: CIG Community Manager: What are you guys doing for the holiday livestream? Backer: Getting very drunk because you always disappoint us :ohsnap:)

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 8

reddit posted:

I'm about out of good faith for Chris. It's been one hell of a wait. If they can't resolve the garbage performance and start making leaps in development now that "the core of the game is there" I'm going to completely stop telling people about the game. Seriously tired of people giving me poo poo just because I'm excited for a game that has, so far, disappointed absolutely every single one of my friends, RL and online gaming friends.

biglads posted:

I would say they are abandoning ship, but as they only have pictures of ships they can't really.

Cao Ni Ma posted:

reddit posted:

Even if Derek turns out right, he's still a massive jackwad lol
Acceptance stage

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Bayonnefrog posted:

Still the the most compelling exchange in this whole saga and really ground zero for the anti-SC v SC people and the reason why I really got interested in this whole story. It was all to incredible. Here you have a paying customer (backer) laying out his arguments as to why he feels there are huge issues with how long the game is taking and why so little has been done and your #1 marketing person can't answer them at all except to get personal and defense. Utterly incredible and completely unprofessional. How could one customer service exchange cause them to get so unhinged? Because the insights Beer provides hit too close to home I think.

The part that I particularly appreciate is that the entire CS exchange started off as me asking why I was banned. Any competent customer service team would have reviewed the request, responded with a very simple answer, and either corrected the action or affirmed their position. A competent community management team would have never let it get to that point, as there would be no subjectivity in the rules or they would have taken advantage of the situation to make an example of me, refund everything, and simply state "given Beer4TheBeerGod's actions outside of this community we no longer wish to have him as a customer." Boom, done, move on. They can do that, it galvanizes the community and ostracizes me, and we all move on. As usual they're not sufficiently competent to do that and then Sandi made the mistake of expanding the scope of the conversation and allow me an opportunity to air my grievances. So I did, and she made the mistake of responding to them without any consideration of the consequences of doing so. She made her personal feelings known, repeatedly displaying an egregious lack of respect for the customers who are funding her lifestyle and an almost dismissive attitude towards some very real and very serious problems with the development, and did so assuming that I would keep those feelings to myself. This lack of professionalism should come as no surprise to a company that secretly labels their customers as "special snowflakes" or links to external information as part of their internal customer service system.

You're right about this being ground zero; it's a perfect litmus test for how someone views Star Citizen and what side of an increasingly sharp divide they fall on. Either they read that and think that CIG is run by incompetent amateurs, or they read it and get angry that I violated common decency by sharing a private communication. The latter interpretation is particularly interesting because they completely ignore the contents to focus on what they perceive to be a personal attack, which is why having a reasonable conversation is nearly impossible. You saw the same thing with Erris and INN when they accused me of fabricating the whole thing and then completely disappeared when I called them out and offered to provide any reasonable evidence demonstrating its validity. They don't care about the truth, they only care about how to reinforce what they already know. This whole fiasco has actually gone a long way towards helping me understand why politics, religion, and attitudes in general are so entrenched.

TheAgent posted:

Nyast posted:

Where's this "Crytek is broke" storyline coming from anyways ? Honnest question.

I know they've had financial difficulties a few years ago, but then they got a $70M cash inflow from Amazon, so I'd say right now they should be doing fine, aren't they ?
they actually have the entire turkish government bankrolling them now


Turkish government will be investing a massive $500 million into the German developer
so yeah, no, crytek isn't hurting for money.

at all

D_Smart posted:

We are live!

Worth Clicking: (video: Derek, bootcha, and gamedev talk about Star Citizen for 1hr. Derek surprisingly gives CIG the most credit for effort)

Scruffpuff posted:

Spiderdrake posted:

It's really loving funny that in the video the "why no balanced panel?" comes up right after all three of you said the space doors and other spending are at their discretion. Oh man, so negative! Claiming the studio should have its own agency on its spending!
The poo poo that bothers me about the "balanced" bitching, and this goes for more than just Star Citizen, is that "balance" is constantly misconstrued to reflect that if a story has 2 sides, then those sides must receive equal time, even when one side is batshit insane.

A balanced discussion of Star Citizen of say 4 people, would have all 4 thinking it's cool in 2013, 1 questioning it and 3 backing it in 2014, 2 vs. 2 in 2015, 1 backer and 3 skeptics, in 2016, and 4 people knowing damned well it's bullshit in 2017. That's what balance is - a proportional reflection of reality, not a constant reassertion of people's egos and the reinforcement of the belief that "all opinions are equally valid."

D_Smart posted:

hot balls man no homo posted:

Really guys? You couldn't scrounge up one single solitary person to talk on stream about why star citizen is good? It shouldn't be that hard, there are five, maybe six SC streamers that talk about how great star citizen is for hours every day. Oh wait, they're paid shills and wouldn't want to get spanked by Derek on a stream that they can't shut down...
I reached out to a bunch of them, including Montoya who said on Thurs that he would do it. Then he disappeared. Some even contacted the organizer, then disappeared.

But yeah, they're all cowardly fucks who only function in their sad little bubble with Shitizens as their audience. Even Montoya, who isn't as crazy as those other guys like Astropub, Twerk17, BoredGamer, WTFO et al, didn't want to do the show.

Also, FailureToReport who I also recommended, since he was a backer and has a unique insight, was confirmed. And minutes before we were to go live, he loving bailed. He had an "emergency". Leaving the hosts scrambling to find a replacement (which was Kevin) in less than 15 mins! Which is why we started late.

thatguy posted:


Is Star Citizen out yet?

TheAgent posted:

Chris Roberts, Visionary
Sandi Gardiner, Actress
Ben Lesnick, Employed

TheAgent posted:

holy poo poo people on sc_trades are trying to sell things at 20% to 25% below their value and they aren't moving at al lol

EightAce posted:

Massively Overpowered’s Worst MMO Business Model Award goes to Star Citizen


Star Citizen. Holy poo poo Star Citizen. Selling fake land in a game that doesn’t exist yet for real money. Enough said.

the slow pace of this game’s development coupled with the incessant drip of paid and arguably pay-to-win pixel ships — and now pixel land claims — all from a multi-million-dollar company whose combined crowdfund all by itself is currently bigger than all the other crowdfunded MMORPGs put together? It has worn on my very last nerve.

Boy, this was just the year of Star Citizen doubling down on “sell something that doesn’t exist yet but we promise will at one point exist,” huh? Systems that aren’t even yet in obvious development can now be bought in advance for a bunch of money! This isn’t shady at all! Runner-up: Guild Wars 2 and the amzing mount-skin lockbox.

Star Citizen. The longer that time goes by without a full game release, the more ridiculous it seems to be “selling land on the moon” (or pretend spaceships) that fans can’t fully enjoy right now. The expansion of this model to selling land claims was truly ridiculous and highlighted one of the big problems with many of these early access and crowdfunded MMOs.

I have to echo the Star Citizen here because it really tops my naughty list of worrisome features in a business model: It stacks payment mechanics on like they’re sprinkles and the tiers and access is further convoluted by its early backer roots.


Lack of Gravitas posted:

Jeffrey McArthur passed away on Friday in Exton PA, aged 61.

An avid gamer and geek through and through, Jeffrey was diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer in December 2015 and came to our attention early in 2016 when he made a video asking if he "was too stupid to play Star Citizen", which resulted in him facing abuse from some of the more toxic members of the SC fanbase.

After undergoing surgery and chemotherapy, a CT scan in July 2016 showed his cancer to be gone, and he continued working and making many videos on his hobbies, gaming, computers, and Dungeons & Dragons.

In August this year, another CT scan showed his colon cancer had returned and spread, eventually metastasizing to his stomach. With a prognosis of only a 50% chance of surviving to the end of the year, Jeffrey decided not to undergo chemotherapy again, chosing to enjoy what time he had left to live without suffering the side effects that chemo had on his senses.

Jeffrey faced his death with immense grace and dignity, and I am very grateful to him for sharing his story with us along the way.

Rest in peace, Jeffrey.

juggalo baby coffin posted:

so i figured it was time i did some sort of effortpost given that i've been following this shitshow on and off since it started. this is less a post for true FUD-sippers, and more one as a response to all the people who have said 'well yeah its a scam now, but you guys have been calling it a scam for years, even when it was a legit game'.

This is how we knew it was a scam from very early on

So picture this. You know a guy, he's an architect. He's built pretty decent buildings in the past. He tells you that now he's going to build a mile tall tower. 'Ok', you think, 'I wanna see that. It's going to take some clever engineering to pull that off'.

At this point he's promising something that sounds difficult, but still within the bounds of what reality might permit. People are getting close to mile tall buildings, the limiting factors are mainly the cash cost and needing the right site to build it on.

Then the details start to leak out. How he's planning to make this building. 'It's going to be made of bricks and mortar,' he says, 'With a floor plan of 10 feet by 10 feet.'

At this point the jig is up. That's not happening. A mile tall building is possible, but not like that it isn't. But people who don't understand how buildings work at all are still suckered in by it.

That's what happened with star citizen. It seems like the average (non-paid) true believer is weirdly ignorant of how games work. I've seen a ton of posts from shitizens about how 'I've not played a game since ninteen-dickety, but I'm coming back for star citizen and I've bet the farm on it.'. If these people had kept up with games technology at all they would have smelled a scam from a mile away.

Now I'm not a game dev, but I've played a shitload of games, and modded a shitload of games. You come, over time, to see how things work, see where the shortcuts are to make it all work. You get to understand the tradeoff games have to make to deliver their core gameplay at reasonable performance. You also gain familiarity with the strengths of the major engines, as these days there just aren't that many.

But Chris Roberts comes out and says 'No shortcuts! Vast scope! Sim level physics! Hundreds of concurrent players! Fast paced FPS style combat! Top notch graphics! Cryengine!'

Which sounds great, but is OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO WORK. If someone tries to sell you a truck and says it handles like a sports car and gets the mileage of a subcompact, you know it's a loving lie. But because so many people know so little about game development, and have been tricked by a guy who has presented himself as Space Game King Arthur, returned in gaming's time of need, they give him money. Lots of money.

So two things happen when a game has over-promised:

A) the scope of the game is drastically cut back to something plausible and people are disappointed.
B) development staggers along pursuing an impossible dream until it runs out of cash and burns out.

When Star Citizen was relatively new I figured that A would happen. The dumb poo poo would get cut, the shortcuts would be put in to allow the game to work, dumbasses would be disappointed, but we might get a space game out of it. And I do actually love space games. The whole reason I bought E:D was because a friend linked me to star citizen and it gave me a hankering to fly around in a ship. I would like star citizen to be a real game and have all the stuff its promised. That would be great.

But what really killed Star Citizen for me was the fact that they cut off path A to themselves. They started selling expanded scope as pledges and poo poo. Stretch goals are one thing, they can get cut or delayed, but when you've 1:1 said 'Pledge here to get a fucken electronic warfare ship' you've honor bound yourself to implement electronic warfare. Add to that the extremely predatory pricing of all that poo poo and it became clear that this was more than just an over-scoped, over-ambitious project.

It was, and is, a bare-faced scam.

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Dec 20, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 9

Beet Wagon posted:

This encapsulates Star Citizen for me in a way I doubt the OP could ever understand or recognize. It's got everything:

  • The pointless joke literally run into the ground as the only bit of content
  • The huge, empty, ill-advised planet
  • The wonky physics, with the Big Benny's machine jittering all over the place
  • The hilariously overwrought mocap of the guy doing his dumb victory dance
  • The inability of commandos to affect change on anything (look at his feet in relation to the vending machine)

It's all just so perfect.

The Rabbi T. White posted:

I see Derek finally defeated the vending machine.

juggalo baby coffin posted:

reddit posted:

When will humans invent FTL drives? When will humanity cure cancer? When will we have world peace?
These are all important questions, and yet the answers remain elusive. Why? Because we haven't yet invented a machine to predict the future.
How does that apply here, you ask? Well, you see, Bob, attempting to determine when 3.0 will be out to the public would be attempting to predict the future, and, well, we're just not quite there yet.
this is an apt comparison because like FTL drives, star citizen being completed is forbidden by the laws of reality

Beet Wagon posted:

"He can't control the narrative!" I say, comparing my 400 followers to his 7,000 and wildly tweeting about the time my forums enemy went on a facebook stream to literally control the narrative.

Colostomy Bag posted:

Apologies to Charlies Daniels:

Roberts went down to LA he was looking for some funds to steal
He was in a bind cause he was way behind. He was willing to make a deal
When he came across this fossil writing a blog and tweetin' a lot
And Roberts jumped upon an airplane desk and said "Boy, let me tell you what."

"I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a developer too
And if you'd care to take a dare I'll make a bet with you
Now you write a pretty good blog, boy, but give the Roberts his due
I'll bet this concept jpeg against your soul cause I think I'm better than you."

The boy said, "My name's Derek, and it might be a sin
But I'll take your bet; and you're gonna regret cause I'm the best Warlord there's ever been."

Derek, fire up your blog and play your trolls hard
Cause CIG's broke in LA and Roberts steals the tards
And if you win you get to say "I told you sooo"
But if you lose the goons get your soul

Roberts peeled up his scalp and he said, "I'll start this show."
And hundreds flew from his fingertips as he delayed the show
And he pulled the funds across his wife and it made an evil hiss
And a band of shills joined in and it sounded something like this:

[Demonic Full Burn piece]

When Roberts finished, Derek said, "Well, you're pretty good ol' son
Play Star Citizen right there and let me finish on how it's done."

"Coutt's own the assets now time to get refunds!
Roberts in the house of decreasing funds;
Lesnick in the kitchen eating cookie dough
Roberts, does the hobo bite? No, backer, no

[Non-demonic Full Burn piece]

Roberts bowed his head because Skadden had him beat
And he laid that concept jpeg on the ground at Derek's feet
Derek said, "Roberts, just come on back if you ever wanna try again
Cause I've told you once--you son of a bitch--I'm the best Warlord there's ever been."
And he played:

"Coutt's own the assets now time to get refunds!
Roberts in the house of decreasing funds;
Lesnick in the kitchen eating cookie dough
Roberts, does the hobo bite? No, backer, no

ScoreLord posted:

Any Australians in the thread may wish to pick up the latest issue of PC PowerPlay; it contains a column predicting what will occur in the world of gaming in 2018, including a few key events for Star Citizen.

Loxbourne posted:


There was a sticked post in the SC sub that was that cartoon of Derek with *autistic screeching* over his head. That's how they view Derek and all the "haters".
This isn't as knee-jerk as it sounds. The citizens probably really DID perceive Derek's words as INSERT AUTISTIC SCREECHING HERE. They don't process the content of the media they consume, they process the emotions it made them feel. No citizen can remember what Ben or Chris or Tony said in episode 172 of Reverse the Hearse two years ago. But they can remember a powerful, idolised man told them he would give them their dreams, and that's all that registered in their brains. Does something make them feel hyped and pumped for Star Citizen? It goes in the GOOD category, is welcomed into their worldview, and the theorycrafting begins about how awesome this will be. Does something make them feel nervous or anxious or attacked? Then it goes in the BAD category and cannot be allowed to be real, ever.

To an extent this is the basis of all marketing, but a worldview this far gone is endemic to the kind of unsocialised, poorly-socially-developed, alienated person who is most vulnerable to cult recruitment. They don't have the self-worth that comes from a sense of their own accomplishments and an established place in a community to allow them to properly evaluate the marketing hype. They don't have other voices in their lives to provide something they can compare that hype to. Actually evaluating a statement means understanding it and sorting it into concepts the reader's mind can grasp, and that's scary when the statement includes criticism of the core of your self-identity. A cultist cannot do that. Their emotions are the only legitimate response to CIG marketing a cultist will accept.

Announcing a new ship? That makes them feel psyched! It's gonna be great flying that with their friends and their orgs, and Chris said orgs will seek you out if you have one (the Pioneer). Calling out the hefty price tag of a new ship? That makes them feel attacked, stop making them feel bad about a thing they were feeling good about a moment ago. You must be a goon or an alt or a shill or another evil word, because you want to harm me by making me feel bad. The backers evaluate all criticism by the disappointment and defensiveness the cultists themselves feel when they hear it. Not what the actual critic said.

You don't embrace Star Citizen with the same level of enthusiasm I do and that makes me sad. That hurts.

Why did you hurt me? You must have wanted to hurt me. Your motive cannot have been critique or evaluation or even well-intentioned concern, it can ONLY be to hurt me. You must hate me. So you hate Star Citizen. You are coming for me and I must ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK to stop you hurting me again!
. The rest is mob mentality and nerds being shitlords in predictable ways.

We call Citizens "manchildren", this is how they behave like children. The content doesn't matter, only the way it makes them feel. Intent does not matter, if it hurts them to hear your words you must have meant to hurt them. You cannot be merely a critic or just curious about the project, you must be a hater who wants to harm them.

This is why they're so strangely blasé about release dates and feature lists. All that matters is how awesome it will be when 3.0 is released. If not 3.0, 3.1. If not 3.1, 4.0. It's gonna feel so awesome.

This is why critical bloggers and streamers must be attacked so viciously (setting aside considerations about grey market prices). Your words make me feel sad and that hurts so you must be deliberately attacking me. I will react as if you have directly assaulted me.

This is why they cheered when Chris said he won't give release dates. Release dates are just words in the mouths of people who hurt us. If Chris does not make promises, the haters have less ammunition!

This is why the hardcore cultists freeze and lock up when CIG fucks up the marketing, But but but CIG makes me feel GOOD and now I feel bad! Whyyyyyyyyyy...!.

Ultimately this is why they're pathologically incapable of evaluating the Crytek lawsuit. The lawsuit manifests in their heads as nothing but giant documents reading WE ARE HERE TO TAKE YOUR DREAMS AWAY. YES YOURS, CITIZEN 415762, YOUR DREAMS PERSONALLY. NYAR HAR HAR WE'RE SO EVIL, SO VERY VERY EVIL. They don't see the words on the page. They don't respond to the points raised. They respond to their emotional reaction of knowing a lawsuit was filed. That reaction is a combination of nervousness and bravado, grasping at any passing piece of information that might provide a way back out of the scary introspection - "mighty CIG will crush all before it!" "ORTWIN WILL BRING THE FUREH!" "This is just a Crytek cash grab!" "Please please please can that be true I'm scared!"

There's no point arguing with a Cultist over the substantive content of anything, lawsuit or critique or forum post, because the Citizens aren't reading the content. The content doesn't matter. The meaning doesn't matter. All that matters is that the lawsuit, the GOONS, the words of a critic or Chris's failure to play his own game or whatever it is...suddenly makes them feel anxious. So it must be rejected as hard and as thoroughly as possible to make the anxiety stop.

Mr.Tophat posted:

Filthy backers, let them stare into the bog that holds their reflection and dreams forever, let the water rise above their heads as they lose themselves to the vision, let their opinions rise like so many, 'glub-glub-glubs' to the surface, rendered mute and vacuous by their willingness to be immersed in their product.

My heart is hardened. The stage is set. The banners fly and those who seek reprieve from the coming consequences have tarried too long to escape judgement. Lesnik was the last. Crytek has sounded a shrill blast of war, and all those who attend it ride to end it all. The irregulars at Chris Robert's disposal speak softly of letting their wallets speak for them, for good and ill. And with it? I see a warlord who declares all these events are set in motion via his prophecy of, 'Beware the Crytek at launch."

Some believe it was called before the rising of capital. Some believe the final call has yet to be announced. I know this for certain. Until the end, just as in the beginning, I shall just post, and until that end, just as there was in that beginning so many years ago, there is parp.

Mr.Tophat posted:

The real treasure is the grief we made along the way

==IGN SQ42 Exlcusive==

IcarusUpHigh posted:

The IGN teaser is up

Worth Clicking: (video: Mark's character hops around a stationary ship and yells are people)

Scruffpuff posted:

Wow - a "cinematic" but no loving game. I'm not sure I can handle this unforeseen turn of events.

Bootcha posted:

Where's the CryEngine logo?

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Why yes, I am the pilot of this craft, watch me jump down 13 steps just to break my ankles.

Do you like my ridiculous chest armour and cock-cup? I designed it myself. You'll notice that, as a pilot, I often find myself requiring body armour in tight, closed cockpits.

Colostomy Bag posted:

What a confusing clusterfuck of an alpha trailer.

TheAgent posted:

the last time someone ran a marketing thing on IGN it was almost $50,000 for a simple highlight

your backer dollars at work lol

Taintrunner posted:


this whole goddamn thing is a scam so crobberts and sandi can become titans of industry running some lovely vfx studio in hollywood. there was never an actual game

Scruffpuff posted:

The flying ship is a photoshop and the footage is not in-game

I've never seen this level of openness and in-your-face audacity in a scam before. 99% of everything they put out is promising ongoing game development and implying tons of behind-the-scenes progress, but lightly scratch the surface and you see that the ONLY thing CIG has made is the superficial illusory stuff. They just put the scam right there out in the open, in your face, with full confidence. "Yep, we're completely full of poo poo, give us more cash and we'll make more fake trailers for a game nobody knows how to build."

And every day, it's working.

CrazyLoon posted:

I tried to imagine what it'd be like for CIG to be my dentist, but realized it'd probably just be some dude putting me on a neverending waiting list while sending me breath mint to help with the stench of my already compromised teeth as I slowly die from bacterial infection or somesuch.

But at least I'd die with the dream of the most perfect and painless evah dentist procedure!

Beet Wagon posted:

new splash page. Focuses heavily on mocap and melted faces. In fact the picture of spaceships doing space things is the only image that isn't animated if you mouse over it, because there is in fact no gameplay.

Also it would appear Gillian Anderson's agent wasn't able to get her out of her contract, based on how many times they mention her.

Scruffpuff posted:

So CIG put a conversation "tree" (which appears to be an opportunity to play the tutorial) over the unskippable non-gameplay cinematic, and this guy sees it and says "NO IT'S THE INNER THOUGHT SYSTEM".

"Inner Thought" system. Amazing how CIG manages to give a proper name to every mechanic they "develop" (otherwise known as stealing and then renaming to cover your tracks.)

Tip for CIG: you don't have to steal every gameplay element, rename it, then deny knowing about it and claiming you invented it. Especially since everything you reinvent has been broken poo poo. There's no shame in just using what the real game developers are using. You might even squeak out something resembling a smartphone app one day.

Rad Russian posted:

If any FPS engine basedgames taught me anything is that you can propel your tank to fly by firing the turret backwards. So I'd imagine there will be a goon space tank squadron spam firing backwards to fly the horde of tanks through space until we discover a poor citizen miner to gank. At which point we all surround him and then slowly rotate the turrets forward for 30 seconds of suspense.

Scruffpuff posted:

I imagine things at CIG must be awkward. It's hard to believe EVERYONE there has bad taste. So they poo poo out a trailer like this and all have to glance askew at each other, trying to dynamically gauge which ones realize it's pure distilled poo poo and which of them are fully down with the Kool-Aid.

Then comes the Autist King, and they have to present His Majesty with something that's been giving them douche-chills for the past several months, and deep inside they wish he'd also realize how poo poo it is, but when he smiles and says "It's just as I envisioned it" they all have their own visions of CribbityBobbityBoo getting a visit from Stimpire Invigilation teams.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 10

==Holiday AtV is delayed 24 hours==

CIG advertised their holiday show accross IGN and amoungst their fanbase. Only to cancel it 20 or 40mins before the scheduled time to go live.

big nipples big life posted:

CIG yanks the football away at the last second again.

I love you CIG, I really, really do.

Colostomy Bag posted:

What a trainwreck.

The hits keep on coming.

tuo posted:

Imagine not beeing able to show gameplay of your game after five years of development

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Seriously these guys were probably promised that they were going to have tomorrow off after working their asses off all week but nope

Sarsapariller posted:

The eyes of the world are upon you, CIG! This is your moment! Take my energy!

Only an entitled shitbaby thinks that the company owes him a presentation!

This is peak Star Citizen

reddit posted:

Hi , huge french SC fan , concierge backer and all that poo poo , and i have to say im sad , not angry just sad .
You plan a livestream which is supposed to be a big communication tool to show SQ42 progress , you even team up with IGN , trying to build the hype.
I even saw an article on the first french videogame website , with positive comments , wanting to see what is coming and what SC / SQ42 really is , past the trolls and goons shitsayers. And what do we get ?
A 24h delay 20min before the show .... what ? How ?
How can you make something like that happen , are you a 10 man studio ? Or do you have a full community section with funding from suscriber , that's really unprofessional and you give goons another thing to laugh at.
If you were professional , everything would be ready since at least several days ... stop with amateurism please. 'Amateurism' may be a bit rude , but you have to do something way better (174M crowdfunded guys , sorry you re not considered as a small indie company anymore)
I hope you have amazing rock solid things to show tommorow otherwise what will remain from that is the hyped stream with teaser and everything getting delayed , clownfiesta all the way :/

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

an extremely star citizen holiday surprise

Daztek posted:

From reddit

Mangoose posted:

loving CIG, I've had the worst case of blueballs since their bullshit, boring, playing-it-safe anniversary stream and these assholes delay the holiday one.

It's extra bad because goons turned out in force and the thread is moving at the speed of sound. It's like everyone turned up for a concert a couple of hours early to drink beer and have fun but then the band didn't show up, so we're just hanging around talking poo poo while finishing our alcohol.

It's not even 100% a metaphor, I've literally been drinking alcohol since the kids fell asleep in anticipation of this disaster.

OH and by the way... a loving TANK? Like their mountain of engineering debt wasn't high enough, now they have to include ground combat with gameplay value AND make it so there's situations where deploying a god drat tank is the strategically sound decision. Do these people know anything at all about tank warfare? I mean, it's not just a beach buggy with a giant cannon you send out for shits and giggles. Also, you have literal destroyers and carriers and poo poo that can, at will, enter atmosphere of seemingly any planetoid. Why the gently caress would you need to deploy slow, ground-bound artillery units? What the gently caress could they offer a combat situation that a loving corvette with some kickass space gun couldn't?

Stand by for the loving Orbital Bombardment pledge incentive rendering literally everything planetside obsolete in their lovely imaginary poo poo stupid poop game

loving melting down over stream delay, sorry

What could have been the cause for a delay at the last min?

reddit posted:

Hi guys, I just got off twitter with Jared, basically "technical difficulties" doesn't cover the issue. Burst water main, a Car accident, and I quote "that and more."

Rad Russian posted:

First it's technical difficulties. Then Jared says his house got flooded AND someone else got into an accident. Now someone made him delete those tweets.


reddit posted:

Could be a Goon psychopath's work. Wouldn't be surprised if one of their flock is stepping up the game. These people are dangerous and severely mentally ill, sooner or later they'll snap.. even harder than usual.

Jared deletes the tweets and says those were methaphors

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Even without a presentation hilarity finds a way.

Golli posted:

Tomorrow's stream.

"Unfortunately, the technical issues persist. Instead, please enjoy this complimentary screening of "American Satan: The Unrated Director's Cut"

XK posted:


He put it in quotation marks. Yeah, it was clumsy communication, but I'm pretty spergy and I saw the metaphor.
I saw it as maybe a metaphor, until he explicitly said that it did happen. I recall from previous posts that you're, Finnish, I think it was, so maybe there's a second language issue? To me, it was clear that he stated it was a thing that actually happened.

reddit posted:

After having a YEAR to make sure they got last year's holiday live stream right? (You didn't forget last year, now, did you?)
I'm sorry, I cannot defend CIG this time.

TheAgent posted:

like why you even delete the tweets unless you realized you 100% hosed up lol

the game is released, metaphorically

TheLastRoboKy posted:

I would have believed the broken water mains thing because CIG have never had a working pipeline in their existence.

reddit posted:

I went from showing everything to my friends to showing the occasional new ship. Every time I do though they ask "It is even a game yet?" and I have to shamefully say "No" only to be laughed at for paying money 3 years ago just to get a bunch of pretty pictures.
At first I thought they were wrong but I gotta admit that my mind is slowly changing. I can't help but feel that the money I spent on SC was just lost, like a failed investment.

reddit posted:

Yeah I got burned by last year's stream. It was so bad I actually turned it off because I felt so embarrassed in front of my friends. I said I'll just update them about the game's progress when it happens... over a year later and I nearly made the same mistake again.
There was a time I could barely contain my enthusiasm about this game, but now I strictly keep it to myself. CIG's livestream curse is something they really need to sort out.

Natron posted:

I was disappointed at first with the delay from CIG, but now I realize that this is actually a miracle.

CIG was running out of ideas, running out of time and money. Skadden's lawyers were phoning all day long, demanding to know about this and that, and Coutts' e-mails were filling up the inboxes of everyone in the LA office. They could only entertain us for a scant two hours with images of generic space ships and regurgitated faff from old 90's movies, and then we'd all have to back to the drudgery of our real lives. Hollow, like death. With only real games to play and our loving families to comfort us in our time of need.

But then, when no one was expecting it, just before the final flash of hilarity and gently caress-uppery that would send us off for 2017, the word came that the comedy would last much longer. Oh, and it did. The comedy burned brightly for 24 more hours! Far exceeding the limits of what we thought possible, the Goons' cups runneth over! Mirth and merriment spread across all the forums. Joyous words rang out from the signal boosters and the FUDsters, and for that day the Goons were more than satisfied by the offerings of the Crobberts.

And so it was, that on this day a new Goon tradition emerged! From now until eternity, on every 21st of December, we Goons shall light 24 candles, one for every extra hour of hilarity, and break our water mains, then get in a fender bender to honour the miracle that has been bestowed upon us.

Crobberts be praised, for he is the true giver of laughter!

FYI whatever they end up showing is all pre-recorded

big nipples big life posted:

This is even more damning tbh

CrazyLoon posted:

Basically what he's saying is: "We want to have shitizens comment on it live, while we also want it all staged and pre-recorded so that we get to pull off whatever smoke and mirrors we want and look like badasses."

10:1 the reason for the delay is that they couldn't even get the smoke and mirrors working sufficiently on time, because that's how hosed their game engine and 3.0 is right now. And 10:1 that tomorrow there'll STILL be glitches that they'll leave in the pre-recorded footage and cross their fingers that no one notices and that shitizens will defend!

Blue On Blue posted:

so their live stream isn't even live, it's just them playing a recorded stream... lol

and that somehow hosed up? wait what

wouldn't it be recorded and ready to go like, weeks ago?

reddit posted:

This doesn't even make sense. So CIG is telling all of us that they haven't finished filming and editing the video? And they only knew about that 40 minutes before it was supposed to air? It makes the cancellation even more disturbing. People need to be fired over this. I would fire the VP of marketing. Nepotism will stop them from firing that person though.

reddit posted:

Wow, they couldn't air a previously recorded show? loving incompetence AND arrogance.

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Even without a presentation hilarity finds a way.

CIG is selling a tank now, for their game that everybody incorrectly thought took place in space.

Thoatse posted:

Who's up for a game of 'where's Archer'?

Beet Wagon posted:

well gently caress me that's just about as blatant as it gets.

Beet Wagon posted:

So they hosed with perspective and added some greeblies to the back of the turret but basically everything else lines up, including the major identifying marks on the chassis and the cowl over the barrel of the gun.

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I thought it was reaching at first but then I saw the camera and rocket pod things. I can't believe they are still archering things to this day.

Golli posted:

Score another one for the goon forensics team.

D_Smart posted:


Despite the fact that Star Citizen is nowhere near ready and could take forever to be in a releasable state, CIG has decided that what fans need now is a tank. The reveal came as a VIP exclusive so it’s not visible to mere mortals but the image of the full page can be seen below.

With the Squadron 42 stream event thing happening this week the timing is perfect to suck in some more cash and throw out another elaborate idea. Seriously, this is taking the piss a little. With a basic option being $95 going up to $725. CIG, seriously, GTFO.

Again, I will reiterate. Backers should avoid pumping more money into Star Citizen. With the Crytek legal case looming and CIG trying to entice players with new “features” such as the non-existant land acquisition, reveals like this stink of desperation.

Toops posted:

I see it more as a leader whose every decision, every action is moving towards one goal: building video game that will be considered fun by the people who play it. How do you do that? By creating an environment where working code is built as often as possible to provide gameplay feedback, and that feedback drives your development iterations. The technical poo poo doesn't matter as an end in itself. "- moons" is not progress unless it yields fun, playable content that feels good. Now, contrast that with CIG. They roll out some shiny bullshot trailer of a planetary landing, with no grounding in anything playable or real, and in Chris's mind, that's literally Mission Accomplished. Meanwhile, 11 months later when you finally get a build, you just noclip down to a wet towel draped over a sphere for 16 minutes at 8.3 FPS, and when you get there, there's loving nothing to do.

PederP posted:

Witcher 3 had Charles Dance as a voice actor, and reaped tons of publicity from this, without having to do mocap or face scans. Mocap should be a tool for animators. It can be really difficult to get some motions right without mocap. I remember an episode from a game I worked on where the animators needed mocap of dumping a body in a dumpsters (not the the easiest thing to manually animate so it looks right). Problem was that humans are actually pretty heavy, so most people can't really do this without having it look silly. So a really big guy and a really small woman did the mocap, and animators did their magic to make it fit the body sizes in-game.

It's a monumental waste of money to drag any kind of highly paid actor, especially an A-lister, through mocap for a game. Face scanning and expression mocap makes good sense. But the pudgy-suit mocap? Not necessary for the marketing effect.

Jobbo_Fett posted:


Mne nravitsya posted:

A song honor of the Christmas Event

Crashing through the show
In a build no-one can play
O'er the moon we go
(Goons) Laughing all the way

Alarm bells start to ring
Derek Smart was right
What fun it is to watch this poo poo
It's the E.L.E tonight

(Oh) Jingle Bells, Lesnick smells
Crytek seized the day
The Crob-Mobile lost it's wheels
And the law firms are in play

(Oh) Jingle Bells, Tanks won't sell
Chris lost his toupee
The Coutts are mad, the game is bad
And the cultists blame SA

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 11

CIG airs their SQ42 video and label it a "verticle slice" (video: 2 hours of mostly walking around) (video: Director's Commentary)

It is pretty boring so here are some decent timestamps:

Sarsapariller posted:

Cafeteria Scene:
Ser Davos gets shoved by the map:
Crobberts rips off terminator joke:
Encounter with mopman:
Man disappears from flight deck:
Hammil's dancy landing gear:
Dancing flight deck guys:
Fighter launches, demo takes a poo poo:
Amazing appearing chair:
Janky fighter combat:
Player barely survives navigating a stationary spacecraft:
40 minute pointless flight to planet surface:
Astonishing grate-handling gameplay:
Stealth takedowns and combat with static target-dummy AI:

Not pictured: 2 hours of pointless running

Brazilianpeanutwar posted:

double insta ban

big nipples big life posted:

commando is probably an autoban word which is as hell

skaboomizzy posted:

"This is a make-or-break stream to convince thousands of backers not to bail on this scam, so be sure to wear your nerdiest t-shirt."

spacetoaster posted:


He said: "Here's the infamous door."

drat Dirty Ape posted:

"This is very very early stage stuff....."


G0RF posted:

Chris Roberts in January of 2017: "Squadron 42 will be finished this year. Probably."

Steve Bender in December of 2017: - "This is very early stage stuff."

spacetoaster posted:

That must be the water main that exploded yesterday.

Just imagine having a giant poo poo pipe in your office.

Blue On Blue posted:

This is poo poo. I noticed a few animation jumps already. I don't see shadows on characters. And yes now the player is casually strolling through the reactor room for some loving reason ? Oh wait simply so they could show off the ai and their scripted canned dialog

BigglesSWE posted:


skaboomizzy posted:


Beet Wagon posted:

faces are hard

happyhippy posted:

I call it progress to be honest.

Last year they couldn't carry a box 10 feet without crashing.
Now they can carry grates!

Beet Wagon posted:

this is some Source FilmMaker quality poo poo right here

D_Smart posted:

My 42-part thread on wot I thought of the stream

thatguy posted:


Anyone know the font for the "inner thoughts" UI? I could definitely have some fun with that.
The font is called Orbitron.

I'd animate it but I'm tired.

G0RF posted:

In light of today’s livestream, I still think Squadron 42 is an absolute black hole project sucking light, gas and heat away from Star Citizen and bending time itself, slowing it, crushing it.

The demo today, with its ponderously long “flying towards nothing doing nothing” segments were cinematic NyQuil that no amount of Fidelity can overcome. The hardest of the hardcore may delight in the presumed ambitiousness of it yet Chris already has their money, and the demo showed only too often how heavy the burden becomes when alloying the dogfighting game to the space sim. All that blessed freedom — to walk around the giant ship, to fly around a giant map — is a curse and damnation for how can it be made fun? Can CIG give NPCs that can’t be counted on to even walk straight enough vitality to be interesting enough on their own as you encounter one after the next in Super Hallway Runner?

Can a studio that can’t even craft a satisfying racing module or FPS game mode with an FPS engine overcome a too much time to kill / too much space to fill hurdle so high even Rockstar — the absolute masters of the time killing / space filling mini game — would steer the hell away from it?

“Signs point to No.”

Yet clear these seemingly impossible bars he must if he’s to hope of finding new buyers for Squadron 42.

Ambition unto itself is not a virtue when the bearer is blind to their own limitations, when the loftiest goals are declared yet planning is eschewed because it looks like constraint. In fact, it isn’t Ambition at all but rather its dim-witted sibling, Folly. And the Folly of Roberts was on fullest display today, in year five, when the game he told the world would be finished this year “probably” was revealed as pre-Alpha with his own team declaring the work only just begun.

I don’t write any of this with glee because it honestly makes me sad to reflect on. The farce will be with us, always, yet there’s a heaviness in the consideration of so much squandered opportunity.

ewe2 posted:

Have a punky Xmas with this end-of-year all-notes-must-go offering:
Jingle Parps

while I'm trying to get something usable.

Here is Jingle Parps Mix #2 for the Dalek-challenged listener.


Amarcarts posted:

It's such a cringefest when they showcase "stealth kills" because it's very obvious they're doing it to hide how bad the enemy AI is. They did the same thing a year ago with the video on the desert planet and the "Sand Nomads".

Beet Wagon posted:

There's actually a very simple explanation for a lot of the graphical oddities in the demo

it's poo poo

Tokamak posted:


reddit posted:

3.1 Is A More Major Update Than 3.0 in Some Ways

NoNotTheMindProbe posted: (video: FTR sits down in pilots seat, without pressing anything it slingshots itself into the nearest wall)
The game's so bad even the ships want to kill themselves.

El Grillo posted:

Is it just me or was even the audio in that SQ42 demo loving terrible? It was all over the place. And why are they using lightning sound like all the time in the background. Not even when they flew into the weird space lightning bit, I mean just on the big carrier at the beginning there was loads of lightning noise. And the score was so heavy and overblown the whole goddamn time, even when they were just flying along in a straight line for 3 minutes it would build up as if some epic thing was happening on screen... But it wasn't.

my favourite bit in the demo was when they spent 2 minutes zooming in on flight deck crew before the player was about to take off. You couldn't see the crew because of the terrible lighting, meaning that all those animations they spent so much time making and then making a film about how they made them, were not seen. Except those that were, were absolute garbage.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

So I caught up with the thread, and I'm about 10 minutes in to the demo.

It's poo poo. Everything is poo poo. The programming is poo poo, the characters are poo poo, the visuals are poo poo, the writing is poo poo, the directing is poo poo, the constant cut-scenes in what is supposed to be a seamless first person experience is poo poo, it's all poo poo. I'm so glad I got a refund.

==3.0 available to all backers finally==

tuo posted:

Shitizens: Chris Roberts is a perfectionist, and he won't show SQ42 before it's perfect
<CIG shows buggy pre-alpha SQ42 vertical slice with < 20 fps which contains everything we have seen the last five years, making it the current "this is where we're at, deal with it">
Shitizens: see...he is a perfectionist in that everything has to be perfect before moving on to the next th....
<CIG releases 3.0, broken as gently caress>
Shitzens: But...but....Chris perfectionist?

XK posted:
(tweet: I am going to do everything in my power, and will spare NO time or expense to put Chris Roberts in jail. I'm done. 42. End)

The gauntlet has been thrown.

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Dec 24, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 12

==Suck Cost Galaxy==

Bootcha posted:

Merry Christmas...

Worth Clicking: (video: Sunk Cost Galaxy - Overture)

Bootcha posted:

Oh poo poo you forgot to check your stocking...

Worth Clicking: (video: Sunk Cost Galaxy - Foreword: The Reliable Narrator)

==Chris on Spectrum==

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

Chris has made a rare appearance on his weird discord knock-off in order to provide the base with some fresh talking points for the new year.

Chris Roberts posted:

The number of players on the server has a lot less impact in client performance than one would think. During the final stages of PTU we ran tests with 50 players, 40 players and 30 players per server. While there was a slight improvement in performance it wasn't proportional to the player count.

[...] Fill up a Caterpillar with cargo, blow it up over an Outpost on a moon and you can bring the clients and servers to their knees [...] Have a bunch of people fly around in Starfarers and Caterpillars and you're straining the clients and server far more than you would be with a bunch of Auroras and Hornets.

We have solutions for all these things [...] but they are not something we can complete in a week or two.

At Citizen Con we announced that we are moving to a quarterly release schedule that is less feature bound and more focused on regular updates [...]

If you are getting performance in the sub 10-15 FPS range there is definitely something not right, especially if you have a quad core CPU, 4GB video card and at least 16GB.[...] so please be patient.

Finally I want to say thank you to everyone out there for supporting Star Citizen, your enthusiasm and dedication really does energize the team and myself. We are building something truly special that is only possible because of you.

Happy Holidays everyone!

XK posted:


We don't really understand why the game behaves how it does.

FPS goes up. FPS goes down. Nobody can explain that.

Faith restored.

Scruffpuff posted:

CR's little holiday diatribe is nice because it reveals his misunderstanding of what's wrong. His entire post was all about performance this, FPS that, and so on.

As if the performance itself was a problem and it needs to be handled.

Not the case Crobbler - the abysmal performance is a symptom.

It's like having a kid coughing up blood and phlegm all over the floor, so you say "It's ok, I've got more people coming in with mops, they'll be able to keep up and keep this floor clean." You're rather missing the point.

3.0 is irrelevant - it's just another inevitable consequence of the mistake they made in 2015 when they released what they called "2.0" - a cynical ploy to prove a "game" existed and an excuse to begin denying refunds. The cancer released to the PU two years ago is simply continuing to advance through its stages.

We're at stage IV now.

Dusty Lens posted:

It's good to see that they're giving some consideration to the idea of shifting away from a model that stream all data everywhere at once to the player regardless of location.

It's an unconventional approach but this is an unprecedented undertaking.

XK posted:

Chris's Christmas message:

The game is poo poo. We don't know what's going on. The ships and cargo are loving up the engine.

We might address things mid January, or later.

Merry Christmas.

nnnotime posted:

Chris Roberts posted:

From the data we see it is not so much about player count but more about WHAT the players are doing. In our internal testing we didn't witness the performance issues that we saw on PTU or Live once thousands of players got in and started doing all sorts of crazy things.
Crazy things? You mean crazy things, like, oh, I don't know, trying to play a sandbox game like a sandbox game, which was the expectations that you set from Star Citizen's very beginning?

You should see plainly now, Citizens: Croberts is already the first to blame you, the esteemed pledgers, when anything starts to go wrong with his game.

Virtual Captain posted:

CIG has what, 15-30% of their ships flyable, I'm guessing >10% of the player items/armor they envision for the full release. They have no idea why performance is garbage with just this small set of assets. MoMA help me out; what fantasy land do you reside in that this starts working and more than 10 players can engage in complex twitch combat? Have you already admitted to yourself that this project will never see a 30 person battle?

Absolutely none of this is built in a modular or scalable fashion. They've said repeatedly that every ship is a special case and this is evidenced by years implementing the small handful they have currently.

Scruffpuff posted:

I guess we've finally reached the final stage. Chris never had a vision, and nobody else at CIG knows what Star Citizen is. Their plan appears to be to take a bunch of assets and dump them in a box:

And somehow "emergent gameplay" will spring to life from that. But nobody can get any of the assets working, or the physics, or anything at all.

Half a decade, $170 million, and a blithering idiot who willfully misrepresented his ability to lead this project.

And now, just in time for Christmas, a new Articles of Faith is released to keep the backers pumping him his unearned and undeserved windfall so he can continue to fail at every single thing he attempts.

Every day is Peak CIG.

D_Smart posted:

I knew croberts had balls. But I had no idea they were Platinum. I just read his latest. Wow. Not only is he blaming gamers for doing precisely the features he sold them, but also managed to blame *them* for the server issues.

That poo poo is never getting fixed. They already reached zero barrier on what they could with the game and engine.

Dusty Lens posted:

kw0134 posted:

So Crobbers is saying the players are doing weird things, like starting the game.
To be fair he's not wrong

Dusty Lens posted:

Let's flashback to when CIG was first rolling out their cash shop and people (before the narrative was given enough time to shift) reacted very poorly to the system that remains in place to this day.

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

That spectrum thread is great, backers detail just how broken the game is, Chris and Toni throwing nonsense words at them until they are appeased, backers then fawning over them for taking the time to do "work" on Christmas. Star Citizen is good.

D_Smart posted:

I spent 15 mins in that thread. I didn't know what to expect. Then I realized that, for as much as we take this to be a joke, this - this - is a loving cult. Can you imagine what would happen if EA, Activision et al pulled this poo poo?

juggalo baby coffin posted:


Virtual Captain posted:


So It'll take them till june/july to add the content that was originally schedule for 3.0 back into 3.0. So that leaves them 6 months to add mining into the game when it took them a full 2 years to go from video presentation of 3.0 to actual 3.0 release.

They are complaining about cargo ships breaking the game, imagine when mineral haulers get added to the game. Imagine when cruise liners need to be simulated into the game. Imagine when the cruise liner gets blown up as its arriving into port and the server has to simulate all those corpses
Just a reminder on what 3.0 promised vs delivered:

Walk anywhere on planets and moons 1
Seamless landings 1
Immersive landing pad and traffic control from NPCs 1
Day and night cycles 1

Barely qualifies
Expand the Stanton System (two moons isn't much) 1
Cargo Transport (Couple missions, no actual profession) 1

Totally missing
Basic mining 1
Trading 1 2
Piracy 1
Mercenary 1
Bounty hunting 1 2
Diverse NPC actions 1
Economy driven missions 1
Increased mission complexity 1

Search "patch", "3.1", "3.2", "3.3", or "4.0" on for dreams not yet shattered.

Mr Fronts posted:

CR: I would like to point out that ever since I got the legal threat from Skelling I have been working on this response. I worked on this until 5am last night, and a couple more hours this morning in the UK, where I am currently am in preparation for ATV in a week from Saturday. Conservatively it’s taken me about eight hours to write. This is time I could have spent working on the game instead of dealing with a Crytek instigated drama. And this is really what annoys me – that their silly lawsuits occasionally gain traction and pull me away from the very thing I prefer to do and the very thing everyone wants me to do and the very thing Crytek accuses me of not doing – CHANGING THE ENGINE/NOT CHANGING THE ENGINE (-note -check with Ortwin which one I should go with)! By constantly nagging, writing warning letters and soliciting solicitors in the background to enforce a dumb old licensing agreement, Crytek is waging guerrilla warfare on my time, the time of other key executives, and the peace of mind of our employees and backers.

The Titanic posted:

I have to believe that somewhere in CIG high command, somebody has come to the realization that the mmo is never going to happen without an enormous, very lengthy total rewrite. What they built so far may be good for Sq42 drop-in/drop-out coop with like 4 friends, but that’s about it.

I think, because I have to think, is that this keeps getting reported to Roberts, but he either ignores it, or demands people soldier through the problem because he came up with the solution already (mesh tech) and they just need to apply the code to it.

I believe that CR sees “mmo rewrite: 6 years to alpha” and he can’t wrap his mind around another 6+ years just to get a very basic functional vertical slice of his dream mmo out the door. He sees the arena game, and sees how it works, but that it just needs more tweaking with his great ideas to make it a 10,000+ player mmo with his magical ideas.

Now they are basically where they were 1.5 years ago with an engine that still can’t work, except now the added in hack jobs are really starting to add up. The system literally can be extended no further, and even the best computers can no longer play it.

Lack of planning, lack of comprehension, and hubris are going to force more people away this year since the only thing they can do to make this mess work is rebuild it as an actual mmo, which will take a decade or so, or remove components to help get it sort of functional again. They may be able to figure out how to band aid stuff, but they’re looking at teeny tiny gains out of that.

Scruffpuff posted:


The system literally can be extended no further, and even the best computers can no longer play it.
I'm gonna zero in on this point because it contains something that bugs the poo poo out of me. This insistence from Chris Roberts, and the cultists, that you need a "powerful PC" to play his game, the implicit statement being that his game is an avatar of gaming perfection that requires more than a mere mortal vessel to contain it.

The reason it bothers me is because for years I've been fighting one of the most pervasive lies in PC optimization history regarding the need of a "powerful PC" and why that might be the case. There are precisely two, and only two, reasons you need an absurdly powerful PC to play a game (or do anything else):

1) The game is using new graphics technologies that are just now in their infancy and might not even be optimized or build into the GPU architecture, they're pushing the edges of realistic physics calculations, they're pushing the edges of how many on-screen players can be in a single battle - anything where the developers are 100% aware that they're pushing it, and usually realize that in a couple of years hardware will be more than capable of handling it. "Max Settings" for these games is usually nothing more than hedging their bets.

2) The game is complete poo poo that fails to optimize nearly anything, wastes CPU cycles on nonsense that doesn't affect the player, overheated GPU contributions that are not visible to the player, constant calculation of irrelevant AI, and just wastes I/O through poor decisions and logic.

Star Citizen is #2 masquerading as #1. Star Citizen is not doing anything that hasn't been done before, far better, by smaller teams, and for cheaper. But there's an undercurrent to their bullshit that they're the next Crysis (engine choice deepens this illusion) and they're pushing the envelope so hard you guys that your PC running Star Citizen well is the de facto test for whether or not your gaming testicles have dropped.

It's all bullshit. It runs like poo poo because it is poo poo, and the only thing better hardware will do is allow Star Citizen to crash faster.

PederP posted:

Even if Star Citizen had the best technical and managerial leadership in the world, it still could not achieve what they want with the current generation of engines. The ambition and scale they boast so much about does not "merely" require skillfully adapting current technology. It requires a paradigm shift applied to an entirely new engine.

Nevertheless, with the massive budget they had, there was a chance to make the best of the engine they were contractually obligated to use. This would involve doing the proper analysis and protoworking. Working out what the challenges were, taking the time and effort to decide where to compromise, where to develop entirely new technology and where to experiment. And not actively building a playable game while doing this.

Instead they've simply layered every single thing on top of the existing systems. I am hard pressed to see an instance of actual innovation and novel development. Everything is CryEngine hammered into shape until it fits or breaks - and then duct-taped or covered up, if it broke. I am baffled by this approach. Why didn't they build actual server technology? Why is there no custom network protocol? Why didn't they build a custom system to handle scalability of physics? Every single issue they're having to solve now just to make 3.0 playable, could've addressed at the beginning of the project. Even with the vague and ever-expanding scope, they knew they were build an MMO with spaceships.

I wasn't along for this bizarro ride early on, as I took one look at the original pitch, was tempted but then remembered how difficult it is to build a space MMO, and decided to keep my wallet closed until they had more to show and I was confident this was not going to be a shallow pay-to-win game. But can someone who was a backer and fan back then comment on why early development took this weird path of refusing to make any new technology, and instead simply pretend CryEngine could be hammered into an MMO engine?

kw0134 posted:

Pleadings, rulings, motions, etc., are public information and will be available to people with PACER accounts a day after it's filed with the court. The response to the complaint can be more or less a single page with Ortwin scribbling in crayon "lol no" to all the allegations and that ought to suffice for the purposes of entering a response and avoiding a default. Of course the proper way to do this is to lay an appropriate foundation for your defense, and there are certain things you must plead at this time or it's waived (jurisdictional flaws, e.g.) but CIG can clownshow the case for a little while longer with the bare minimum needed.

Given that low, low barrier I don't expect a default's CIG. Who the gently caress knows. Maybe this will explode in a supernova of stupidity before it finally fades away, the bright star in the sunk cost galaxy that shines all too briefly before being devoured by the Skadden supermassive black hole.

Combat Theory posted:

A friend who would like to stay anonymous felt compelled to write an effortpost about the performance situation in star citizen 3.0 and CIGs future outlook.

It's s a long post but it's well worth the read.

I take no credit for this.


Performance, i.: Where is the PC Master Race?

A core tenant of Star Citizen's advertising was appealing to this facet of the PC master race, remaining unshackled by the plebeian hardware of consoles and leaving the sky as the limit for the smooth, buttery goodness of a game that utilized more fully the current - and future - maximum potential of gaming PC hardware.

And yet Star Citizen is currently a slideshow that frequently dips into the single digits. This is unacceptable for even a console title, of which there are many TCRs (Technical Certification Requirements, i.e., "the console maker won't let you ship your game on it if it fails these") regarding performance. That is why, for all of Reddit's angst, you very rarely see a console game that actually has noticeably poor performance. As has been consistently demonstrated over the past decades, 30 FPS is simply Good Enough.

But Star Citizen doesn't even have that. And it is unlikely to have that in the near term. And it is unlikely to remain sustainable as ever more features are bolted on. Performance is, ultimately, one of the final litmus tests by which a game's programming is judged. It is the sum total of all of its parts, working in concert, in real time, on a player's hardware. Performance is unlike any other aspect of game development, in that it can almost never be simply patched after the fact. It must be explicitly designed for from the start, as no matter how many people you assign to the task of "performance is bad," eventually, they stop being able to continue to claw back the framerate in 1 and 2 FPS increments through additional work.

Why is this? Join me for a guided journey of the dark and mystical land of low-level performance optimization in video games; a glimpse behind the curtain of what outwardly appears to be nothing short of wizardry with extra steps.

Performance, ii.: Design philosophy.

Every project is different, as is the way that performance impacts it. Some projects never need to worry about performance, such as the common meme of the student's simple Python script that processes some small amount of data, perhaps putting it into an excel spreadsheet, which is sufficiently small that it simply doesn't matter how poorly optimized it is. So long as the data is good, no one cares if it takes one second or three seconds to execute.

Some projects, such as games, live and die by performance, as no one will play a game that is a literal slideshow. Therefore, the game's architecture must be designed properly from the very beginning, as perhaps a mere 25% of performance optimization is the result of clever programming tricks, with the remaining 75% being the result of good design.

The house analogy has constantly been used to describe this phenomenon. And with good reason, as it is quite accurate. The design of code is tricky business, as it is something invisible to players. Anyone can see if the jackets have enough fidelity or not, and anyone can see whether the fluid dynamics in the drink glass provide sufficient immersion for the eventual drink mixing minigame. Conversely, only a tiny fraction of individuals, who are both highly technical and highly experienced, will be able to see whether or not code design is proper.

"But it's an alphaaaaaa," come the cries of the faithful. No. The entire point of this is to expound upon the fact that these issues are ones which should never be encountered by the time a game gets into the alpha stage. These are things that must be executed properly before many of the game's systems are in place.

And by all accounts, the people at CIG who were experienced enough to properly guide the design left long ago, leaving what seem to be primarily inexperienced members to attempt to do so. I have nothing bad to say about those working in the trenches, as it is not their fault at all. If someone gets told to implement volumetric fog, and they do so, then that should in fact be celebrated - it is the management who decided to mis-allocate the resources to prioritize volumetric fog over more important tasks which should earn one's ire. Similarly, I have nothing but respect for those who still attempt to fix and improve the code's design even if they are unqualified to do so - I trust that they are in fact trying their best. These criticisms should be, once more, directed to those who mismanaged the project and put them in that position to begin with.

Performance, part iii.: Case study of poor design.

"One issue is with animation updates of attachments, specifically doors."
Doors are a prime example of something which has been needlessly over-engineered. Before, I have heard stories of ridiculous things such as fixing an issue with moving through doorways by placing invisible physics objects inside of them rather than properly fixing their collision bounds. While not directly related to performance, this is the kind of thing that we call a 'kludge' - a quick and dirty fix that is not considered proper. It's like fixing a rotting stairway by covering it up with pieces of plywood. It might work in the short term and allow you to continue traversing the stairway with less risk of putting your foot through a weak piece of wood as you take a step, but it is certainly not a proper solution. Because next month, you might want to add a ramp to your stairway to allow access to those in wheelchairs, but now you not only have to work around the rotting steps, but the plywood you dumped over it to cover it up. Similiarly, the next time they want to change how doors work in game - perhaps they need a new type of sliding door, for example - they now have to work around the kludge they left in there from last time, assuming that anyone even remembers it in the first place.

The fact that there are evidently performance implications regarding doors should therefore be of little surprise to anyone.

"Moreover, we have a big issue with badly spawned ships for interdiction that causes significant but unnecessary physics that delays the execution of the next frame on the main threads (and thus severely impacts frame rate)."

Here we go, a nice meaty subject. There are two parts to this:

1) Objects with physics that we don't need.
2) Multithreading delays.

The first issue is quite clear cut: due to the eldritch horrors of their frankencodebase, they're performing physics calculations on objects that do not need them. This is indicative of those systemic issues I've just described, as this sort of thing should be very, very easy to trace back to where it is occurring. Since it's not, as it should theoretically be a five minute fix in a properly designed engine, their ship spawning system can be assumed to be a rats nest of different things interacting rather than one neat, orderly, centralized thing which handles all of the necessary spawning logic.

The second simply means that the physics thread has too much work to do, which is causing the game to run slowly. It sounds simple - "hey, we just need to do less physics work, and then we'll be safely back in the 120+ FPS PC Master Race, right?!". Sadly, it is not. In fact, it describes something really, really bad for Star Citizen.

In most game engines, physics (all those math-y calculations that the computer uses to figure out whether your commando is properly standing on top of a ramp or T-posing his way into the great unknown, for example) and rendering (drawing all of those fidelitious layers of jackets, for example) happen separately. This is very important to maintaining PC Master Race membership, because it means that if too many physics things happen at once, the framerate will not drop. In a properly designed engine, you could have ten thousand commandos running into each other at once, and the game would still remain at the same framerate - the simulation would simply slow down, and everything would move in slow motion.

An easy example of this is EVE Online - there can be huge engagements that crawl along, with actions that normally take seconds taking hours, but during it all, you can still move through the game at a high framerate. This is because the simulation and rendering are decoupled, and the simulation taking longer does not slow down the rendering.

In SC, as they just described, this is not the case. This is Very, Very, Bad. If EVE Online were designed in the same way, then those enormous engagements would be completely unplayable, as the game could only render a new frame after it was done doing the simulation calculations that took an hour to do. In the meantime, the game would appear to hang, and be completely unresponsive - for all you know, it crashed. This is exactly what is currently going on in SC, just at a much smaller scale. The design is neither scalable nor sustainable, and is a really bad thing as it only works if the physics will never, ever be doing enough that it slows down rendering. Assuming that networking works perfectly tomorrow, how exactly are those capital ship battles going to play out, with this limitation in mind?

"Moreover, the team’s going to build a thread local queue to push physics commands in order to avoid synchronization cost caused by the large amount of physics parameter update calls (in order to ultimately get down to reasonable numbers again)."

This is the sentence that actually prompted me to begin writing this series, as it struck fear into my very soul.

The system they describe is fundamentally changing the manner in which commands are issued to other objects in code - in this case, related to physics.

Most code written for games is directly invoked:


Object Does the Thing as soon as this is called. Pretty simple. But let's say that you need to Do A Thing on a different thread, such as physics. You now need to worry about how to properly synchronize data between those different threads, because in any multithreaded system, code running on one thread does not know about anything running on a different thread unless you specifically and carefully make them aware of each other.

One way of doing this is to block both threads. This works, and is easy to implement:


Remember Spinlock? It's the same thing. And remember how it tanks performance? Yeah, same thing.

A queue is another programming construct which attempts to solve this issue. Internally, this creates a little note that says "hey, mr. physics thread sir, next time you get a chance, could you Do This Thing? kthxbai". Simple and elegant, and how many games handle this type of situation.

If this system was properly designed in the first place, it would be no big deal at all - all other code would have been written with that in mind. But now, they have to go back and change it in order to prevent even more bugs - or worse, outright crashes - from being created as a result.

"In addition to that, the engineers are trying to reduce the amount of items / entities / components and their updates that contribute to the high baseline cost on the client."

This is the same as previously covered - things are being updated that don't need to be. Let's explore that issue on a deeper level. A performance optimization that I have heard much about of late is distance-based culling - which is, quite simply, "don't update things that are too far away." That sounds pretty simple, right? It is. In fact, it should theoretically take about two lines of code:

if(Distance(Player, OtherThing) < WayOverThere) {

Or at least, it should be that simple if the engine was designed for it in the first place. Since 1) it is clearly taking them months and months to do this instead of about twenty seconds, and 2) this technique is one of the simplest and most cost-effective optimizations that almost every game ever written ends up using it in some way or another, we can surmise that there is something causing a problem. What could that be?

There are a multitude of reasons as to why you can't simply bolt this on after the fact. Many of them stem from the same problem as in multithreading: there's a lot of other code that expects the code you're trying to optimize to behave one way, and changing its behavior as part of a performance optimization can introduce more bugs and crashes, or even become impossible without also changing all of the other code in some way.

Maybe you have a seemingly innocent bit of code tucked away somewhere that checks something innocuous, such as whether a chariot's lights are turned off or on so the renderer knows whether it needs to prepare some extra lighting calculations for them or not. Maybe that piece of code was hastily thrown in every ship's Update() function, because some guy came barging into your office and demanded that the lights look extra fidelitious in the next check-in, and you wanted to go home because it was already 11 PM and sleep started to look more appealing than bulletproof code design. We've all been there. Maybe this was lost in the shuffle, hidden in a tiny note in your source control commit message that you promised yourself you would fix later. Maybe later never came because someone barged into your office the next morning and insisted that you work on important logic for AI commandos to recognize mopping as their highest purpose in life.

And now, months later, someone else is desperately trying to improve performance at 10:30 PM for a big demo the next day, and tries to add in culling logic that stops calling Update() on ships that are far away. And when he compiles and runs this, he now finds that the lighting is wrong on all of the chariot's lights. Stymied, he now has to trace through all of the code that could potentially impact that. If he's lucky enough to eventually find out that tucked away UpdateStupidLightsSoICanGoHomePlz() function in a bad place, now he has to decide how to fix it. Does he properly refactor the light checking to work on the renderer's side, staying until 1 AM? Or does he pull that bit of code out and plop it into the messaging system he's been writing all day, kicking the can ever further down the road just so that he can get home at a reasonable hour such as midnight? Decisions, decisions...

This is very complex, abstract stuff, and even professionals have trouble getting it right on the first try. Software is somewhat unique in that respect, as in most other fields involving complex technical endeavors, such as building a huge skyscraper, you have the benefit of being able to touch and see it. Building a tower makes logical sense. We instinctively know how gravity works, and that a pyramid is a very strong structure and an upside-down pyramid is probably not.

But in software, we do not have that luxury. It's all abstract concepts. And while we can make fancy flow charts attempting to show relationships between pieces of code, it can often feel like the flatland problem - that we're mere 2D beings helplessly flailing about, trying to visualize 3D concepts that our poor brains simply weren't designed to handle. Software development is all about taking those abstract concepts and solidifying them into functional code.

And that code is, by design, very brittle. If everyone agrees that we're making a pyramid, and then halfway through stacking blocks to build it, someone waves their hands and insists that we're actually making an upside-down pyramid, it's probably going to fall over. And when software is poorly designed, on any level, that is exactly what happens.

Performance optimization has the worst of all worlds because it is bound by hard technical limitations. Time and money to add new features may indeed be infinite, but at the end of the day, the CPU cycles on the player's computer are very much finite.

Propagandist posted:

'Twas the night before Paarpmas, and all through the 'Verse,
Not a backer was pledging, for it just got worse

Delusions were posted on Reddit with care,
In hopes that St. Christopher soon would be there;

Citizens were nestled all snug in their beds,
While autism chariots danced in their heads

Titanic with her iceberg, and I with by bunnes,
Had just finished a season of Friends reruns

When out of the blue there came a new Tweet,
I sprang from the chair to the Warlord's drumbeat

Away to the forums I flew like a flash,
I refreshed the thread and stroked my moustache

The goons were elated, while MoMA was stunned,
For lawyers had seized their millions of funds

When, what to my wondering eyes do I see,
The Warlord himself is now claiming a V

A "washed-up developer", so salty and tart,
I knew in a moment it must be D_Smart.

More wordy than EULAs his topics they came
He tweeted, and posted, and blogged them by name:

"Now! Archer, now! Legal, now! Lesnick and Lando,
"On! Sandi, on! Zendesk, you're snowflakes, commandos!

"To the federal building! To the town city hall!
"Now litigate! Litigate! Litigate all!"

As interns that 'fore the bankruptcy will flee,
When parted with paycheck, sans college degree;

So up to the jailhouse the p'licemen they flew,
With the car full of staff - and St. Christopher too:

And then in a minute, I heard in the thread
The anger of backers was fin'lly widespread

As I refreshed the thread, and was getting right sauced
A new blog from D_Smart, so smug and aroused

He typed in all caps, was having a cow
His sources were leaking: "Apocolypse, Now!"

A bundle of links were slapp'd right at the end,
His first July blog post, "Read it!" he contends

His eyes - how they twinkled! His hairline, how thinning,
Old Greybeard had won; on his chair he sat spinning

His poo poo-eating grin displayed a bright glow,
And his message was thus: "loving told you so!"

"They switched the game's engine", he wrote with a curse.
"There is always more, and it is always worse!"

The crossed arms of he showed with an air
He cackled with glee, and leaned back in his chair

His post had that rhythm, that rhyme, and that station
"Forty-two is eighty-sixed, sweet vindication!"

But I saw him exclaim, when this fire he set alight
"Happy Paarpmas to all, and to all a good night!"

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December mini-Set 13

Bootcha posted:

Thankfully, you don't have glitch in order to travel to this here youtube video...

Worth Clicking: (video: Sunk Cost Galaxy - Chapter 1: Past to Future to Present)

reddit posted:

Unlike Chris, I actually write code for a living, and for many years applied that in the gaming industry. I have multiple AAA titles under my belt. You won’t believe any of that, same as you won’t believe that Star Citizen has already technologically failed. But I don’t care about your beliefs beyond marveling at their lunacy. All the evidence you need is right in front of you. Go play Star Citizen! It’s always been utter unplayable poo poo and it always will be.

I would never share my whole CV for obvious reasons, but I’ve shared this one on the old RSI forums: Starsiege Tribes.
The point is, at a technical level, Star Citizen’s engine is in disastrous shape when compared with what they’re promising, and from my perspective, it’s getting worse. I want to see Star Citizen made, so I’m gonna keep speaking my mind, and defending myself when the white knights ride up on their horses and hurl their weak rear end insults from inside their echo chamber.

Spiderdrake posted:


This is the second time this year that they've grossly underestimated engagement/demand (first being the referral contest). It was promoted on the stream of their big game reveal as well as going up alongside the 3.0 release, and yet they are getting numbers that are similar to the tail end of a moderately popular release.
Interesting to compare this number to the Drake poll, which claims 37440 voters. Kinda thinking there's roughly 10k whales and then about 20k people following the game closely. Really really small community for such a "huge, ambitious project"

Dusty Lens posted:

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I swear to god if any of these guys saw EA or Activision deny a refund because they played a preorder demo of a release game that was still 4 years away they'd be all over that saying "See this is why Im backing CIG" completely unironically.
The flood of NMS refugees shouting never again while pledging into SC put the irony meter into permanent hiatus I'm afraid.

reddit posted:

This is not your normal subreddit by a long shot the outright denial of things that go wrong with this project and the lack of people being self aware is more like a cult than a fan base. Also the hate that comes from here if you talk about refunds or anything negative about the project is nothing short of toxic, although I guess fan is short for fanatic and this subreddit takes that meaning to 12.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Well I'm going to try and play 3.0 again.

20 minutes later 60% of my GPU is being used to render a black screen.

Seriously what the gently caress CIG.
This is not an alpha product. It's not a product at all. It's a collection of concepts loosely held together by prayer and lovely programming, and it has no hope of ever being anything near what Chris has marketed it to be.

He's better off settling with CryTek, selling Squadron 42 as a standalone CryEngine product, and then turning around and making a completely new engine for Star Citizen. Actually the project would be better off if they paid Chris Roberts and the rest of the executive team $10M to gently caress off and let actual competent developers finish the job (and by finish I mean start), but neither one of those are going to happen because it would require Chris to accept that he's not the savior of PC gaming and is instead a walking punchline.

Rad Russian posted:

It's also not OK to hide behind "it's alpha" in almost 2018 when the game was supposed to be delivered in 2014. Either Croberts is an incompetent manager who can't estimate project dates and he does not understand development, or he's an incompetent manager that can't execute or deliver. For Shitizens it's somehow neither and he's great at everything.

==No head bug==
There is a bug where the players head disappears and chat no longer works if you look at mobi-glass without a helmet or something.

Star Citizen: I have no head and I must chat

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.

December Set 14

Bootcha posted:

Terrible decisions are a part of Chris Roberts history...

Worth Clicking: (video: Sunk Cost Galaxy - Chapter 2: The Mythological Roberts)

Bootcha posted:


Used Car Rental Salesman chat
There's a quite bit more to that story than what I mentioned, and it's a lot more depressing and sad. And more than two sources have confirmed most of the details of that sad unspoken tale.

What I said was consistent with what they said. However, yes, I should have explained that beat better.

I was looking for something not the whole sad story, not a casual "oh and here he's a car salesman", and not "oh and here he's a car salesman here's what I think about that". I'll have plenty of time for opinions soon enough.

Bootcha posted:

I hope this video is everything you dreamed it would be.

Worth Clicking: (video: Sunk Cost Galaxy - Chapter 3: The Gang's All Here)

G0RF posted:

Squadron never should’ve tried to be more. It was only ever something the minority of a 700,000 member customer base wanted. And most are owed it now for free anyway.

When I picture the Squadron 42 of the original pitch, and the Squadron 42 spec’ed to the probable market size for a PC-exclusive indie space dogfighter in 2014, I picture a much leaner work that hits the nostalgia notes really hard but isn’t trying to best AAA standards across multiple game genres while also delivering the biggest moviegame in history. Whereas Star Citizen’s success seems defined by ship monetization, Squadron’s can and should’ve been in beautifully packaging up an old school nostalgia trip. It can’t possibly ever compete with Star Citizen as money printing machine, but could’ve been a good will cementer for the olds and gateway title / loss leader for that subset of younger gamers who want space pewpew for Pros. If done right, it could’ve won their hearts then turned them over to Star Citizen to win their spaceship dollahs.

Ace Combat games move in the ~1M unit range (including console sales) with dogfighting, missions and a dollop of animated scripted stuff. 6-7 hours for a single player campaign. Barring a Star Wars tie-in for consoles (like a Tie Fighter reboot), it seems to me like the market for a single-player PC only dogfighter title is a six-figure number. And again, CIG may have captured the majority already.

More than anything, SQ42 needed to be a great branched mission dogfighter + Mark Hamill nostalgia vehicle that felt familiar and fun. Chris had the team to do it. And it could’ve achieved that with a structure / scope more akin to Starlancer — a virtual carrier home-base with limited player ambulation, a briefing room, much of the cinematics piped in as video news broadcasts or HUD-delivered companion clips, etc.

Such choices would’ve been both note-perfect on the nostalgia front yet far easier on the production front. It could’ve avoided the exacting cinematic demands of a AAA title like Battlefront 2 using the structural cheats inherent in a game like Starlancer and seemed authentically old school while doing it. A win win for players and developers who know only too well the big bucks are in high-poly, higher dollar spaceship presales.

But then (surprise) Chris started yammering and yammering and somehow:

Chris Roberts posted:

We've got a really big story arch so we're going to split it into a trilogy like Wing Commander 1/2/3, that kind of thing. So Episode 1 is what people will play this year and has the equivalent of 70 Wing Commander style missions...

... We're thinking it's like 21 chapters or so, and each chapter is a segment of missions...

...So, it's about the equivalent of about 70 missions Wing Commander style and we think it's about 20 hours of gameplay...

...So, Episode 2 is "Behind Enemy Lines", which I think that everyone that backed until like $6 million gets for free and then Episode 3 would be the year after. So we'll have each one of these, each one is the equivalent of a huge triple A "Call of Duty" or better because we have a much bigger campaign.

Chris pushed expectations to “bigger than COD” levels and I’m hard pressed to believe the core backers of Squadron rest wanted / needed that. Even from the first couple of years of CIG material about Squadron, it sounded like they started with manageable targets and a familiar structure.

Yet the targets grew nuttier and nuttier as Chris’s gums flapped faster and the cash really started being lit on fire. Now it’s got to have AAA FPS missions. Now it’s got 1st & 3rd person animations that don’t cheat. Now there’s no loading screens. Now it’s got a 1200 page script. Now it’s assembled the most prestigious Hollywood cast in gaming history. Now it’s 20 hours of in-game cinematics.

All that scope creep turned it into Mission:Unprofitable.

Then a funny thing happened after Chris spent all that time talking up Wing Commander 5: The Bloatening... The vengeful god of Irony sent an Aleax of Squadron as a COD game and nut-tapped Chris so hard he put Squadron in hiding for an entire year. (The Road to CitizenCon having been contrived in advance to create the illusion of a last-minute SQ42 debut postponement when it was a foregone conclusion Chris wasn’t going to show it in the run up to Infinite Warfare’s launch because ...)

I’m strongly of the opinion that despite its “failure” to only move 14 million copies first year that Infinite Warfare actually helped force the full and permanent retreat of Sq42 from what was originally planned as a stand-alone retail release to what it appears to be in all but name today: DLC for Star Citizen. (Maybe the Crytek lawsuit was the primary driver but from Brian Chambers Batgirl comments, it almost seems like CIG thought their legal risks were behind them earlier this year.)

Whatever the primary driver, now it’s an open world “let’s put the space back in this space game” bloater damned to sharing the PG playspace, pacing, etc. with the money-earning monster that really was the only show all along.

All of those expansions / deviations from the familiar and conceivably very achievable introduced orders of magnitude greater complexity while actually reducing the chance of yielding lean, mean, retro-tastic fun, a reality made evident by the belated Squadron circa end-of-2017 reveal. Sooooo much time and space and possibility with so little to fill it or give it life or meaning thanks to Chris’s “vision.”

At this point, it’s hard not to wonder whether the real plan is to put in a good effortshow on the Squadron 42 appearances front even while its internally been consigned to the dust bin. This is of course and probably crap but the Coutts loan and Crytek lawsuit both put Squadron under unique outside duress, even while internal and external forces have long conspired to keep it constantly back-burnered. CIG testing of prospective demand via their latest mailing list signup is a suggestive tell and one wonders if, heading into year 6, they suddenly realized the marketing wisdom of a viability test for demand. Knowing that the majority of signups will already be owed the title for free, they may end up discovering only years late that a lean, mean retro-tastic approach would’ve been the smarter choice all along. Retro-tastic fun is the hip new trend with kids these days, anyway

Klyith posted:

I dunno, as always with the Crobbler there are two good explanations.

There's the one where he knows he's screwed and just wants to string it out as long as possible. That CIG has become an elaborate, legal way to scam shitizens by taking money for things they know they can't deliver. They're putting on a show with Sq42 because that's the thing they can most easily produce more glitz fakery to sell more dreams. Star Citizen the online game has kinda run it's course, they've gotten close to the MVP escape hatch.

And then there's the one where he thinks he's still a demigod producer of games and movies, and that he's not the one that's hosed everything up. In that version Crobbler has gotten frustrated by Star Citizen and is plowing himself into Sq42 because he wants some results dammit. But he is so terrible that he legit doesn't know the difference between a scripted demo and a real game.

As always, the funniest thing is that these two possibilities are indistinguishable.

G0RF posted:

POLYGON: Star Citizen’s 3.0 update is finally here
The latest update to the multiplayer game’s incomplete alpha build


Star Citizen, the ambitious collection of spacefaring games, has reached a major milestone. The latest update to the project’s online multiplayer game, the so-called “persistent universe,” represents the largest addition of new content in several years. It is now available to all backers.

The Star Citizen persistent universe (PU) is an online multiplayer game that includes space combat as well as first-person shooting. The latest update, called Alpha Patch 3.0.0, includes a number of new locations to explore, including three planet-sized moons, as well as atmospheric flight. From our preview in October:

The biggest selling point will be the procedurally generated moons, named Yela, Daymar and Cellin. The smallest of those moons will have a surface area of more than 851,000 square kilometers, which will dwarf the entire landmass of The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim.... Players will be able to seamlessly enter their atmosphere from orbit and fly around unimpeded by loading screens or transitions of any kind. In this way, Star Citizen will leap-frog its closest competitor, Elite: Dangerous.

(Probably copy and pasted right from a Swofford email after the PayPal transfer cleared...)


The patch also includes many quality-of-life improvements, such as enhanced cockpit interaction for pilots, 20 new missions and AI for non-player characters such as shopkeepers. The full patch notes are available on the Star Citizen website.

The Star Citizen project began with a Kickstarter campaign in 2012. Since that time, it has become the single most-funded crowdfunding campaign of any kind, on any platform, for any thing. So far, Roberts Space Industries (RSI) and Cloud Imperium Games (CIG) say they have raised more than $174 million, with at least $15 million of that rolling in since the first week in October.

The project is not without its controversies, including several lawsuits.

At least two high-value backers recently asked for their money back. One tells Polygon that they’ve begun legal action to secure a refund of more than $25,000.
Both cite delays in the progress of Star Citizen’s single-player game, called Squadron 42. That project, which has been sold separately since February 2016, features the acting talents of Gillian Anderson, Mark Hamill and Gary Oldman among others.

Crytek, makers of the CryEngine which the Star Citizen games were originally built on, is also suing RSI and CIG for copyright infringement while implying that its executives behaved unethically during and after negotiations.

It’s important to note that this Alpha Patch 3.0.0 is still just a tiny fraction of the promised feature set for Star Citizen’s multiplayer game. Neither the multiplayer nor the single-player Star Citizen games have had a release date of any kind since 2016, a fact that Roberts himself regularly acknowledges.

Way to bury the ledes.

And get out of here with that leap frog bullcrap. The game with 3 moons in one star system of a planned 100 compared to the one with a simulated galaxy... The game with only combat and cargo mechanics compare to Elite’s full suite of space sim essentials... The game with 15FPS on monster rigs next to the one that delivers 100+ And VR in ultra on equivalent rigs... The game in pre-alpha after five years next to the one released and continuously expanding... The game with no real A.I. yet versus one that’s had it since pre-release... The game facing lawsuits from multiple corners and with no transparency to backers versus the one with quarterly financial disclosures to the public... The game pitching $50 to $100 protection racket land claims as yet not in game vs. one that sells cheap cosmetics for those inclined.

Yet “Star Citizen leap frogs Elite because no loading screens.” Yeah, okay man. Whatever you say, ye paragon of games journalism.

Virtual Captain posted:

Persistent and account bound invisible character. Renders the game unplayable.

So... i spawned on Olistar, and im invisible. On the command box it appears to be missing some suit files
Im this little ball on the middle of the screen:

Already restarted, killed myself, verified game files, redownloaded all 3.0, already login relogin, etc.... deleted user folder

Sarsapariller posted:

Mirificus posted:


Watch Montoya skillfully destroy MassivelyOp's contributors and their weak arguments against Star Citizen.


Part of my daily routine is smack down some anti-Star Citizen snowflakes, then eat a T-bone with some Miller lite. Stop judging me! I would like to make a correction! Not all the stretch goals are complete! Pets? Some landing zones.. they are way off. I apologize for making a factually incorrect statement. When somebody says something as fact, but it is not, they should apologize and make it clear that they realize what they said was wrong!

Is it really "Destroying" if you have to declare victory in the title of your video? I mean, their arguments still stand and their predictions for the next year will be verified, or not, in the fullness of time. How about destroying them by making some competing predictions and seeing who's closer to being right? I wonder what kind of expectations you had for Star Citizen at this time last year- because their expectation for SC in 2017 was "Most likely to flop."

D_Smart posted:

He's a moron, and a coward. This is the Shillizen who backed out of debating (he would have been crushed, of course) me live on GameTalkLive a few weeks ago.

They're all doing disaster control, following the 3.0 disaster release.

I left him a message. I'm probably getting banned.


Were you drunk when @ 11:05 you claimed that they had met every stretch goal?