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VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017



Mooseontheloose posted:

The Outsiders is a good idea, except they are constantly working with Ollie.
I need you to know right now, Hoss, that nothing is different between us

quote:

and we don't need the constant reminder that this doesn't change anything
Yeah but you need to know this doesn't change anything, Hoss. We go our own way.

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Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Membership drive for the no Olivers club, get Roy back in the game,

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017



Roy flipped back to his home planet.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Isn't he supposed to show up this season?

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



Yeah, according to news in December. It’ll probably be a while yet.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


Well I'm in the minority (not surprised) of not hating what I'm watching and liking Kirk Acevedo. It hasn't been a great and exciting season, but I've mostly had fun. The B Legion of Doom was a poorly executed idea where Anaotyl was barely there, Diaz was pretty anonymous, and I don't even remember who the other guy was. But I like Acevedo and I was excited when he was cast in the role (with the other name Richard Dragon) so I'm glad to see he was just laying low and have hope for him as the second half villain and man behind everything.

Cran
Mar 23, 2011


Waiting for William to become Mini Arrow and watching Lance go completely nuts are the only two remaining threads I'm invested in. But, I guess it's not like Diaz could be any less interesting than Cayden was.

And I'm currently convinced the Outsiders plot is the worst the series has ever done, maybe behind the Olicity stuff in the back half of season 4, but at least that only made an irritating wreck of one formerly good character instead of two (Curtis is still alright).

This season's a real letdown after the insanity that was Adrian Chase. Not giving up on it quite yet, though.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



We're also going to get more League of Assassins stuff this season as Kyra Zagorsky is supposed to show as a previously unseen lieutenant of Malcolm's, leading a splinter group of assassins.

bentacos
Oct 9, 2012


I think it would've been better if they hadn't introduced Diaz so early in the season and then had him sit there doing basically nothing. Like introduce him closer to the end of this Cayden James thing and show him actually doing stuff. Also making Vigilante into basically Deadpool but lamer was not great either.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


I wonder if they’d originally planned to do more with Slade, and were forced to change plans when DC took him off the table again.

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017



Cran posted:

And I'm currently convinced the Outsiders plot is the worst the series has ever done, maybe behind the Olicity stuff in the back half of season 4, but at least that only made an irritating wreck of one formerly good character instead of two (Curtis is still alright).

This doesn't change anything, Hoss. Don't get used to it.

bentacos
Oct 9, 2012


Also they didn't name the episode where Diaz is introduced "Enter The Dragon" so really just what the hell are they even doing.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


bentacos posted:

I think it would've been better if they hadn't introduced Diaz so early in the season and then had him sit there doing basically nothing. Like introduce him closer to the end of this Cayden James thing and show him actually doing stuff. Also making Vigilante into basically Deadpool but lamer was not great either.

Yeah, they tried to pull off some kind of Keyser Soze with Diaz and it didn't work because he was such a non character most of the time.

They tried to juggle way too many characters in the first half, really. I chalk up most of my criticisms to that. Team Arrow, the Outsiders, Cayden, Black Siren, Quentin, William, Vigilante, the Fed, hacker girl, Thea, Anaotyl, Diaz... It was just way too much and Diaz is one of the people who got the short end of it which made his reveal underwhelming unless you were invested in the actor/comic character like I was.

But my criticisms are considerably less severe than some. I think it's been a bit disjointed and overcrowded, but generally enjoyable.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



bentacos posted:

Also they didn't name the episode where Diaz is introduced "Enter The Dragon" so really just what the hell are they even doing.

"Ricardo Diaz" is also supposed to be DC martial arts master Richard Dragon.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


I assume the op knew that hence the episode title suggestion.

bentacos
Oct 9, 2012


Yeah that's what I was getting at.

kjetting
Jan 18, 2004

Hammer time


I may be in the minority here, but I liked the switcheroo where the character that was the mastermind set up to be the big baddie is set aside for a character that has mostly been a wall flower up until now. Diaz was introduced as the drug lord peddling Digg's self medication shots and since that we haven't really seen much of him before learning that he was in kahoots with Kayden and Anatoli.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


I like the idea of it. I just think it didn't really hit since he and Anatoli were such non-characters. That "one of you betrayed me" Cayden thing was clearly the end goal of the mini-Legion of Doom and clearly the intention was to have Diaz be the most unassuming of the candidates. But he was TOO unassuming and even though Anatoli is a familiar and established character he was just kind of around all season so Diaz didn't really stand out. Plus there was that other guy and Vigilante. Like the whole thing probably works better if Cayden is accusing Vigilante, Anatoli, and Black Syren who we're all invested with but then Diaz/Dragon steps forward. Plus it probably would have worked better if it had more than an episode of build and none of us really every seemed to invest too deeply into the whole subplot about Cayden's kid and the faked evidence Oliver killed him.

I like the idea, the execution was just really off.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Coach Bloodshot
Default Status: SHOUTING


They don't care about the comics. They take key names and toss them in a blender.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


No, its an actual comic character that appears relatively faithfully adapted, especially if some of the rumors about the second half are true.

That just didn't SEEM to be the case until the end of episode reveal.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



I read that the Dragon thing happened because James’ actor couldn’t commit to a full season and they had to hastily retool things. I wonder how true that is.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



They announced casting Emerson and that Richard Dragon would be part of the season at the same time, so probably not.

Sir Potato
May 26, 2012

PO-TAY-TOES
Boil 'em, mash 'em, cook 'em in a stew

I didn't mind the episode actually and like mentioned above, I am actually interested in seeing where they go with Dragon from here on out. It's been a pretty meh season overall what with the need to write everyone as complete idiots this year, especially Ollie, but the action has been pretty good and at least things are happening.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Just waiting for the reveal that the FBI lady was also on his payroll.

fractalairduct
Sep 26, 2015

I, Giorno Giovanna, have a dream!


Honestly you cant even say that Diaz is a boring character, he hasn't had enough screentime to be boring. He was effectively menacing, if a bit cliche, when killing Cayden at least, so I'm hopeful that with more screentime and a bit more fleshing out he gets a lot better.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.


I think the problem was that they seemed like they worked backwards on the idea of Diaz/Dragon. I'm assuming they came up with the character and the idea that he'd be the secret mastermind. They came up with the idea of putting him as one of Cayden's lackies to pull the Keyser Soze trick. Then they filled up Cayden's lackies with familiar characters in Black Siren, Anatoly, and Vigilante to make Diaz less conspicuous. But since we were familiar with those three and two of them kept getting story and character work this season Diaz just ended up feeling at best like a warm body with Anatoly to fill out the ranks or at worst an anonymous grunt like Whats-His-Face who Vigilante killed.

None of it speaks to whether or not he'll be a good villain in the second half. We really have no idea. Its really just about that mid-season surprise that kind of flopped.

I like Acevedo and think he plays a great villain so I'm hopeful.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


STAC Goat posted:

I think the problem was that they seemed like they worked backwards on the idea of Diaz/Dragon. I'm assuming they came up with the character and the idea that he'd be the secret mastermind. They came up with the idea of putting him as one of Cayden's lackies to pull the Keyser Soze trick. Then they filled up Cayden's lackies with familiar characters in Black Siren, Anatoly, and Vigilante to make Diaz less conspicuous. But since we were familiar with those three and two of them kept getting story and character work this season Diaz just ended up feeling at best like a warm body with Anatoly to fill out the ranks or at worst an anonymous grunt like Whats-His-Face who Vigilante killed.

None of it speaks to whether or not he'll be a good villain in the second half. We really have no idea. Its really just about that mid-season surprise that kind of flopped.

I like Acevedo and think he plays a great villain so I'm hopeful.

Kirk Avacado is a kickass time traveller too.

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

Rocksicles posted:

Kirk Avacado is a kickass time traveller too.

He was totally owned by a shape shifting cyborg and oh snap maybe the final villain of the season is a parallel universe Oliver Queen.

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bentacos
Oct 9, 2012


We already killed one of those this season.

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