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sincx posted:So this is how the opioid crisis started. available in doses up to 1600mcg jesus christ  you'd have to have a hell of a tolerance for that not to kill you ten times over Pawn 17 posted:I read about how these are used by military medics on people who have been shot and it's really clever. IIRC, the medics will basically tape one of these to the injured guy's hand and have him put the lollipop in his mouth. When he has received enough medication, he will naturally relax and pass out, letting his hand and the lolipop fall to his side. This way the medic doesn't have to stay with him and constantly monitor the amount of painkiller he is getting. yeah, but, uh, what if it gets stuck?
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Oct 12, 2017 22:43
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facebook jihad posted:Those are devices used to treat dying cancer patients. They aren’t actually lollipops. Jesus Christ The issue with delivering a medication like fentanyl this way is that it's easy to overdose and if somebody doesn't have a high opioid tolerance overuse will either kill them outright or get them grievously addicted. Fentanyl is vastly more powerful than morphine and more addictive than heroin. There's very little reason for most people, even cancer patients, to use it unless they've exhausted all other options. Fentanyl drugs shouldn't be marketed at all because they are supposed to be a last line painkiller, there is nothing more powerful that is intended for human use. Writing people scrips for these and sending them home with them is unconscionable, fentanyl is the kind of thing that should only be administered by a doctor.
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Oct 12, 2017 22:47
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drans posted:The reason they put fentanyl in lollipops was because it was easier for late stage palliative patients to ingest yeah but that doesn't sell enough units gently caress the pharmaceutical industry, seriously
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Oct 12, 2017 23:25
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Lolie posted:We're also 10 years on from the company promoting off-label use of fentanyl lollipops. It doesn't explain why we have an "opioid crisis" now (and neither do the pill mills of the 2000s). OXBALLS DOT COM posted:The crisis is that Chinese fentanyl is super cheap, heroin got cheaper than meth, and now whites are dying the main driving force between the heroin explosion in the late 2000s was people who were hooked on opiates being pushed out of pill mills and onto the streets there's a lot of people you can blame for the existing opioid crisis (and it's a crisis, and spare us the "white people are dying oh no  " poo poo, fent kills more people than car accidents now) - it starts with the pharmaceutical industry and ends with the government.The pharmaceutical industry created a lot of drugs with limited intended uses and decided to try broadly marketing them to people despite off-label effects, pill mills were incredibly incentivized to push the drugs the pharma reps were marketing, and the doctors at these places were either too inept or lacked scruples so they didn't raise eyebrows at the number of pain pills they were sending out the door. Pharmacies were making too much money from all the prescriptions people were filling so they didn't start sounding the alarm until massive numbers of people were addicted to opiates and benzodiazapines. When the legislature started seeing all these addicts pop up, they cracked down on the pill mills and rewrote the laws, so now if you want to get a prescription for Norcos or whatever you have to go to a pain management doctor, specialists who are not always available and very expensive to see. And now that those people can't get their drugs at pill mills, they're buying it on the street, where it's often adulterated with Fentanyl, which is coming into the country in massive amounts. To make matters worse, now that legislation here and in china is making fentanyl harder to come by, drug dealers and cartels are turning towards other variants of it to make profits - like carfentanil, Fentanyl for Hippos™. You can buy a kilo of it on the darknet for the price of a used car and if you dropped it from a helicopter over the super bowl it would kill everyone in the stadium.  The solution is to legalize all drugs, implement full single payer healthcare and make the drug companies pay for it. And rehab for anybody who wants or needs it. The drug companies can pay for that too.
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Oct 13, 2017 00:56
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Lolie posted:China made carfentanil a controlled substance earlier this year. Not before literally tons of it made it's way onto the black market, and there's still analogs being produced of both carfent and fentanyl They're going to be playing whack-a-mole with this for years. The only solution is to get users back onto commercially produced opioids and give users wider access to drug rehab. Beyond that, the cartels have figured out how to make Fentanyl now, and we're going to start seeing them flood the market with their own produced stock just like they did with methamphetamine
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Oct 13, 2017 01:48
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Lolie posted:Sure. And it's always going to be tempting to produce stronger and stronger analogues (not just of opioids but of drugs which are used recreationally in general) to maximise profits while minimising the chances of detection during shipping. "well, there's always going to be problems, so we'd better do nothing at all  " Reigning in the prescription drug industry is part of the solution, just like the greed and excess of the prescription drug industry is part of the problem. Fentanyl was synthesized and produced for a legitimate purpose, making sure that it is only used for that purpose should be something the government takes responsibility for. Likewise with drug costs. Pharmaceutical companies did this poo poo in the first place because our lax and toothless regulatory bodies cannot make it prohibitively expensive enough for them not to be able to defray any potential costs that might arise from their bad behavior. Prohibition will never have any impact on the amount of opiates making it onto the streets, it will just make the problem worse. Since the crackdown on pill mills started, opioid overdoses resulting in death have tripled. There was clearly a problem with the old regime but we still had far fewer people dying from overdoses because the quality and quantity of the drugs they were receiving was consistent and while the people selling those drugs to them weren't great people, they could still be held accountable because they existed within the legal system. You can't do poo poo to stop drug dealers or the cartels. Strengthening drug policies just drives up prices which makes the cartels richer and the street product less consistent, which means many, many more deaths. Policies can change but people need to be educated about and understand the situation we are now facing. People are still pointing fingers at the drug manufacturers and pill mills and pharmacies when that ship has already sailed. People are dying in unprecedented numbers because of the policies we put in place to stop those practices. At least when they were abusing the legal options they could keep track of how much they were actually getting. We obviously need serious reform in the way that prescription drugs are handled but restricting access is only making the problem worse and if we give up on it or write it off as something that can never be solved it's just going to keep getting worse. call to action posted:Migraines are more than "headaches" I didn't get to this earlier but for run of the mill migraines (I know, they're awful, I get them too and I know that run of the mill is an insulting way to describe them) there are better treatments that aren't opioids and if opioids are the only thing that works for you, morphine should be fine if you don't have a herculean tolerance to it and even people with cluster headaches aren't living with them every day of their lives. You're not going to build up a significant enough resistance to morphine or drugs of similar strengths to actually need fentanyl, which is why the drug should have never been marketed for that purpose in the first place. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 02:34
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Maya Fey posted:what do they prescribe fent for? do they prescribe morphine for migraines? Dying people get prescribed fent when they are terminal but the regular opioids aren't cutting it anymore. The point of Fentanyl, literally, is to let people die comfortably. The reason it's addiction potential wasn't an issue in getting it past the FDA was because it was only supposed to be used as a last line painkiller for severely ill cancer patients who had exhausted all other options. They probably shouldn't but if you get severe enough migraines frequently enough it can be one of the things to try. Usually there are better medications for this, but I've known a couple of people who have been prescribed morphine to deal with overall pain when they had multiple chronic health conditions and migraines were one of the contributors to that. My FIL takes morphine tablets for overall pain, with migraines being a major contributor - like, about half the time I see him he's dealing with migraine pain, it's absolutely brutal. I also worked with someone who had an IV morphine prescription she refilled a couple of times a year because her doctor didn't want her to keep going to the ER every time she had a migraine. For some people they get really, really bad. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 03:39
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To be fair, most people getting into meth and crack started with illegal street drugs, most people getting into opiates start with prescription drugs whether they're buying it on the street or not. It's a lot easier to make that narrative stick with opiates than it has been with other drugs in the past, which is probably why the media has run with it.
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Oct 13, 2017 04:37
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Nut to Butt posted:Probably right, but it's the principle. i'm a lot happier of a person after trying MDMA, shrooms and LSD. I use them very seldom but I wouldn't trade those experiences for the world. I think MDMA should probably mostly only see use as a therapeutic drug because there is some addiction potential and brain damage is a long term consequence of use (from chronic/over use) but it's bizarre that LSD and Shrooms are schedule 1 when they shouldn't be scheduled at all. Psychedelics can be very humbling and some people really need that. Ego death changed the way I viewed the world on a fundamental level. I think everybody should get to experience that, at least once. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 05:19
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COMRADES posted:MDMA in particular bugs me because it was originated by a therapist who used it for therapy to great results but then the DEA basically said "woah woah people can have fun with this though?" and so now who knows how many people with PTSD and whatever else go untreated because lol drug war. And the people who do want to try it and know they could benefit from it have to contend with an incredibly unscrupulous secondary market. One of the worst psychological experiences of my life came from getting bad molly. Lab purity MDMA would change a lot of people's lives for the better with only 2 or 3 lifetime uses.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:34
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Apparently LSD turns you insto an unbearable pretentious gasbag i'm not trying to be pretentious. if you haven't tried LSD, try it. you'll see what I mean.OXBALLS DOT COM posted:It's not your fault. That's the drugs. Drug abuse is a disease, not a moral failing. you should probably look up what the phrase "drug abuse" means LSD and shrooms can't really be abused. If you take them too frequently they just kind of stop working until you give it a rest. Provided you have somebody around to keep you from playing in traffic LSD is about as safe a drug as anything that exists. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 19:26
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spudsbuckley posted:Sinagapore fixed it in the complete opposite way and it is arguably more successful. yeah, mandatory executions for having drugs, that's definitely a success story we should emulate  one country solves drug abuse by creating a system that can rehabilitate chronic drug users and reintroduce them to society, and they have a small incidence of drug crime and abuse. a different country solves drug abuse by just executing everybody who gets caught with any amount of drugs that could be interpreted as a distributable amount, as a mandatory sentence. I mean, I guess one way to keep drug use low is to just hang anyone caught with drugs. Also: Singapore is a City-State of 5 million residents, and other countries that "solve" drug crime the same way Singapore has don't have anywhere near the same level of success. Look at what's going on in the philippines - extrajudicial killings of drug dealers and users is just making the problem blow up more as the prices go up. It's almost like the bigger and more populous your country is, the harder it is to enforce drug laws this way. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 19:37
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Sounds good to me OXBALLS DOT COM posted:The drug addict posters are consistently the worst so, despite losing the hilarious TCC deathwatch threads, it would be a net gain for the forums as well. 2edgy5me
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Oct 14, 2017 19:42
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Lolie posted:Not everyone gets euphoria from opiates/opioids. I've had IV morphine and IV fentanyl in a medical setting and they were both distinctly unpleasant to the extent that I'd rather avoid having them in the future. Oral codeine and oral oxycodone both take away pain for me without making me feel awful. IM meperidine doesn't even work to relieve pain and makes me feel awful into the bargain. IV morphine is similar for me, I find it profoundly unpleasant. It feels awful when it's injected and it makes my stomach churn. It also lasts about 3 hours before it wears off which I understand is faster than expected. I don't really understand recreational use of opiates, codeine feels decent but my antidepressant (wellbutrin) dulls the effect substantially. Dilaudid was great on a push-button drip though. I know opiates aren't for me based on my experiences in a hospital setting. It does not take long before the side effects outstrip the recreational benefits completely. The itching is really the worst part of it all. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 22:40
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:What other drugs are you on? Did you just miss the part where I said "in a hospital setting"? Or were you willfully ignoring it?
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Oct 14, 2017 23:54
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spudsbuckley posted:It fixes the problem permanently. But other countries try this approach and Singapore, the country barely bigger than Oklahoma City with a population half as large as NYC is the only one that can pull it off successfully. Hmmm. I wonder why that might be? spudsbuckley posted:Cheap and 100% effective and you don't have to change the rules of society and dress up statistics to pretend making a bunch of illegal poo poo legal is a good idea. you would have to rewrite the constitution to do what Singapore does here. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 00:38
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