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The tickling plot was so loving amazing. And really, if that guy isn't a pervert, WHY NOT JUST STOP DOING THE THING EVERYONE IS ASKING YOU TO STOP DOING?? I didn't feel even a little bad when his wife showed up and was like waahhhhhh you ruined his life.
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Oct 15, 2017 23:14
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Just had the interview at the beginning of ep 9 and Speck throwing the bird into the fan was amazing, but I missed why he had a bird in the first place?
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Oct 15, 2017 23:17
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Man that was an awesome first season and I can't wait for the second.X-O posted:Holy poo poo, that Richard Speck interview in episode nine is something else. Jesus. That was simply terrifying and intriguing I'll put this in spoilers just in case. I'm unsure what the payoff with BTK is. He killed 10 people over 17 years, stopped for 14 years and got caught by sending a floppy disk to the police. My first guess would be showin his life more and it's parallel with Ford, Trench and Carr are doing. Or they do some massive time jumps between seasons.
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Oct 15, 2017 23:39
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I am watching this after binging the “heavy hitter” / serial killer episodes of Last Podcast On The Left, and I highly recommend listening to the episodes associated with the killers who factor into the show. Their research gives you a reasonably deep dive into a lot of the brief character/historical notes referenced for dudes like Kemper. Piquai Souban fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 00:51
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it was weird and dumb when that lady dropped the can of tuna filled with ants, was disgusted and just went upstairs, like what did you expect when you leave stinky food out and clean it up for fucks sake
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Oct 16, 2017 02:43
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I hope we see Richard Speck with titties in a later season.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:44
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Show rules. Ugh I hate waiting for season 2's of good shows. I also am not sure if I should look up stuff about BTK since I forgot that guy even existed....I wonder if that will that ruin it?
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Oct 16, 2017 06:10
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Yeah I can't imagine people not wanting to learn more about Kemper. Listening to him talk he is spellbinding and a complete shock compared to the typical media portrayal of deranged serial killer. He's made no attempt to whitewash or pretend he's anything other then he is and it is insane. Listening to his describing his troubles communicating with women is brutally honest, and now we live in a world where we have r/incel and entire websites devoted to adult men saying extremely similar things and projecting their rage and anger against women and other men. It's pretty terrifying.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:23
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This is just in the first 3 episodes but it’s a really weird choice to have every scene Holden has with his girlfriend be either during or just slightly after having sex. I hope her character gets a little more fleshed out as they go.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:55
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I know profiling is bullshit but I'm ok with pretending it's true for TV purposes.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:08
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I don't think the show portrays their technique as the end all be all of criminal behavioural science. Hell, it's the 70s and they're not actually scientists. They even do that notorious lovely interview technique where they put words in peoples' mouths when they catch that first guy. E.g. "And then you lost control, didn't you?" That doesn't mean their contribution wasn't a massively important first step.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:51
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I think the show is very aware that serial killers and police procedurals around serial killers are so ingrained in the culture that they have to kind of de-train us to put us in the mindset of a person in the 70s. That's why so much of the pilot is dedicated to extremely awkward dialogue that's basically "We don't know that serial killers are a thing" but it pays off much better with the Roger storyline. To us in 2017, tickling kids feet is so obviously inappropriate that we can't believe it's even an argument, but back then, at least as the show tells it, people weren't as cynical or cautious. I think it's interesting that the show leaves it ambiguous about Roger, is he really a pedo or is he just part of a less suspicious culture? Is there really something there or is Holden just becoming infected with paranoia because he spends all his time mentally immersed in the world of serial killers? The show's opinion, it seems, is that serial killers were both a symptom of the malaise of the 70s but also a cause of our increasing cynicism and distrust of fellow citizens. When you have a friend go on a Tinder date, the worst case scenario that gets joked about is "hope he's not a serial killer" but that's indicative of how common this idea of monstrous killers live hidden among us is, and how that poisons us in a way. Also Sequence Killer sounds better than Serial Killer and we should go back.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:08
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"I'd love to pick your brain sometime." "Well that's another life sentence right there." 
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Oct 16, 2017 18:43
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Alhazred posted:Nor did they interview their subjects according to a standardized protocol. They just sat down and chatted, which isn’t a particularly firm foundation for a psychological system. I'm watching episode 5 and they just got called out for this.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:09
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I don't think I'm being controversial when I say that the interview scenes, both those with the captured killers and the interview room grillings, are far and away the best part of the show. I imagine since they can't have characters on the show get in on irl serial killer catching, going forward they'll catch these little nascent serial killers that history doesn't remember. Though all the caught killers, down to that guy who wants Big Red, were/are real people.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:38
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I imagine BTK will become a particular obsession of Holden as the series goes forward as it was one of Douglas' and he was actually quite off on his profile of Dennis Rader.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:45
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Yeah, given the history of Rader, I don't know how they're gonna work that in the show before season 15, maybe just have him going after him and never catching him? Next season will deal with the Atlanta Child Murders zoux fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 19:48
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The interviews with Big Ed were the best part of the show, second only to the short one with Speck. Hopefully in season 2 they cast a good Manson.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:48
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Bless this show for bringing Anna Torv back into my life. I'm on episode six but I thought this was a one-season miniseries, so it's nice to know it'll continue.zoux posted:Next season will deal with the Atlanta Child Murders quote:“Next year we’re looking at the Atlanta child murders, so we’ll have a lot more African-American music which will be nice." uhh, alright.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:26
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That's a really stupid/awkward way to say they'll be focused on an extremely African-American area/culture, but sure.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:30
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precision posted:The tickling plot was so loving amazing. And really, if that guy isn't a pervert, WHY NOT JUST STOP DOING THE THING EVERYONE IS ASKING YOU TO STOP DOING?? I didn't feel even a little bad when his wife showed up and was like waahhhhhh you ruined his life. yeah if some principle/teacher/whatever was doing that to my kid I'd find a way to make sure he stopped pretty quick Also I felt the interactions between holden and his girlfriend were forced and sometimes felt off or even contrived
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Oct 17, 2017 03:17
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precision posted:That's a really stupid/awkward way to say they'll be focused on an extremely African-American area/culture, but sure. Maybe he just didn’t want to use classic rock as the soundtrack anymore
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Oct 17, 2017 07:43
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Maybe he just didn’t want to use classic rock as the soundtrack anymore Hey, I don't blame him. All the interesting music of that time was happening in like, Germany or the deep South, the world hadn't yet really cottoned on to the idea of interesting music that's also popular; the Beach Boys probably come closest, until New Order's "Blue Monday".
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Oct 17, 2017 08:19
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I liked this quite a bit, but found it very frustrating because outside of Kemper I feel like it sets up a lot of material but doesn't really pay any of it off.
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Oct 17, 2017 13:55
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I got mostly through episode 7 and I'm probably done. It's an ok show, but when it's not doing the serial killer interviews (and letting someone chew the scenery a bit) or basically being a really stylish procedural the show stops dead in its tracks. I don't care at all about Ford or his girlfriend and the only thing I like about Tench is how totally annoyed he seems most of the time. This show feels like it's straining to be serialized when it could honestly be almost Law-and-Order level episodic, down to divided in halves between criminal interviews and procedural. The background of the FBI being a bunch of Mormons is important background, but it feels like they never really land that concept and move on. It's a point, then it goes away, then it's there again, then they move on. Granted a show that was focused on that would itself be pretty eye-rolling. Also I can't figure out whether I think the show has something interesting to say about profiling. The first episode seemed to be on the right track in terms of possibly understanding serial killers in a light beyond Freudianism, but then basically everything since then has been unresolved sex issues in some manner. Maybe the final episodes twist that and leave the characters trying to explain something that they can't reduce to repressed sexuality coupled with childhood violence? IDK, I'm not going to sit through a scene about how Ford isn't very adventurous in sex to find out. I did appreciate they decided to use the town from The Mothman Prophecies for that Pennsylvania crime. edit: I think the moment I knew I was giving up was that bar scene with Carr and her partner before she moves to Quantico. It was one of those "Oh, this is how dumb people think smart people talk at bars" moments. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 14:25
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Doorknob Slobber posted:
Yea, agreed. I really like the show. I find it super compelling and it's hard to stop watching, but drat. The scenes with the two of them just seem so amateurish. The dialogue is stilted. The acting seems piss poor. It's like a completely different show.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:01
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:
As an ex-academic, I can assure you that there are absolutely academics who talk like that in bars. I really enjoyed this show and I imagine that the second season will improve on some of the rockier elements of the first.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:59
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SunshineDanceParty posted:This is a great show but drat the name is horrible. Mindhunter is something on truTV. Mindhunter makes me giggle due to the show taking many of the same inspirations Thomas Harris did, and Red Dragon's first adaptation being Manhunter. Also holy gently caress this show is amazing. Everything about it. But the best part? FBI agents on long drives in cars. One of my favourite things to watch. e: Piquai Souban posted:I am watching this after binging the “heavy hitter” / serial killer episodes of Last Podcast On The Left, and I highly recommend listening to the episodes associated with the killers who factor into the show. As I'm watching the show I find myself wondering if they've watched, and what they think of it. I love that podcast. As with all comedians, sometimes they spit too many jokes and a ton of 'em fall flat as gently caress, but their research and personal speculations are so drat good. esperterra fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 08:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfqD5WqChUY A short video discussing Fincher's style and use of camera movement.
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Oct 18, 2017 22:14
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Still on episode 9 but the Tickler and his noisy end was great. Dude just couldn't stop!
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Oct 19, 2017 02:55
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_jink posted:almost skipped this for that exact reason, but ya, it's great. I haven't seen the bird episode so I don't know exactly how they do it in the show, but this anecdote is actually straight out of Douglas' book and happened the way he describes, with the fan and everything. When a guard asked Speck why he did it -- because the guard saw how much he enjoyed the bird and had taken the time to nurse it back to health after its injury -- Speck said, if I can't have it, no one can. Beyond that, who knows why he threw it in the fan as opposed to any other means of disposal... but that's actually how it happened. A LOT of the more anecdotal stuff is either straight out of the book or hilariously in contrast to the book, to the point where I feel like Douglas, as a bit of an egomaniac, was probably pretty annoyed. He has a whole section about how he would always ask the local PD if anyone was involved in a case first, because he wouldn't want to contradict what they knew to be true. Couldn't help thinking of that in the first episode re: Manson.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:07
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zoux posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfqD5WqChUY Yeah that explains some of his episodes feeling like film, and the others like a TV show. Add in his lighting and his camera setups and it's a big contrast to the other episodes.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:29
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 my face when i heard them mention ed kemper because i just got through him while listening to Last Podcast on the Left. I love that they caught just what a loving goober nerd he was.
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Oct 19, 2017 10:20
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It's so creepy when he starts talking about "getting pussy". People/critics complain about the Debbie stuff, but the intent there I think is to show how Holden's work is changing his attitude toward women/sex. The show definitely argues that serial killers have serious problems relating to and understanding women and that their violence is uniquely focused on women. Do you serial killer buffs know if that was borne out by history? I know Dahmer targeted young gay men so maybe it isn't a specific pathology regarding women but rather regarding whoever the killer is oriented towards.
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Oct 19, 2017 15:37
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I agree with all saying the initial Holden/Debbie conversation was stilted and awkward. I couldn't tell half the time if Holden was just being smooth and witty right back at her or if he was being serious with his retorts. It was super weird to the point I was surprised Holden got any action, especially when he was going downtown and kept stopping to ask her if he was doing it well. All in all though, one of the best shows on Netflix, not for the faint of heart. Kemper was chilling as gently caress. Speck was pretty amazing too. And I'm always up for Holt McCallany, I think he did a great job, and there was chemistry between him and Groff despite the fact that their characters slowly grow apart toward the end of the season.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:53
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zoux posted:It's so creepy when he starts talking about "getting pussy". "Get that pussy before it turns into Mom" 
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Oct 19, 2017 19:14
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Wise words to live by .....
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Oct 19, 2017 19:55
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Why is 'Pizza! You guys..!' not an adorable YouTube sensation yet?
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Oct 19, 2017 19:59
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I also thought they paid off the "sympathy" Kemper gets from the audience through what is a compelling and ultimately endearing performance by the actor because in a way the audience becomes like Holden, they forget that this guy is a horrifying monster and not a quirky weirdo, so it's shocking to us when he slams his feet to the floor and moves preternaturally quickly to cut Holden off from the exit. The audience realizes kind of at the same time as the character how dangerous and menacing Kemper is, and how Holden has basically been in a cage with a tiger the whole time. Very well directed scene.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:45
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