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Groovelord Neato posted:i dunno how the show is going to do btk and green river cuz they weren't found for decades. also because the profile of btk was wrong. I'm guessing either BTK will stay on the periphery for the whole story or the show will jump ahead long periods of time between episodes/seasons going forward.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:49
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I think BTK's profile being wrong is a good thing for the show
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Nov 5, 2017 23:51
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it would be but the profile was also very vague so they could could argue it was sorta right and with the guy who made it consulting i doubt they'd want to paint him in a bad light.
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Nov 6, 2017 00:08
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esperterra posted:I'm partial to Willam Belli, the Aileen Wuornos of Drag. My wife's middle name is Aileen, she was literally named after a serial killer. Her mom is, uh, weird.
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Nov 6, 2017 00:19
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3 DONG HORSE posted:I think BTK's profile being wrong is a good thing for the show What was Douglas' profile of BTK compared to what it actually was?
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Nov 6, 2017 19:44
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in their profile they just did a sort of cold reading type thing (which is most profiling). they'd say he'd be bad with women. but might have lots of women friends. his iq would be above 105 (so average). he'd be selfish in bed. jerk off a lot. drive a decent car. might be married. might be divorced. might be a loner who never married. might have a connection with the military. i think they said he might rent his place.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:in their profile they just did a sort of cold reading type thing (which is most profiling). they'd say he'd be bad with women. but might have lots of women friends. his iq would be above 105 (so average). he'd be selfish in bed. jerk off a lot. drive a decent car. might be married. might be divorced. might be a loner who never married. might have a connection with the military. i think they said he might rent his place. To be fair, I get the feeling that most incels are a stone's throw from becoming serial killers.
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Nov 6, 2017 23:29
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he wasn't an incel he was married with two kids. the point was most men masturbate and are selfish lovers. all men are also married or divorced or never married.
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Nov 7, 2017 00:34
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precision posted:To be fair, I get the feeling that most incels are a stone's throw from becoming serial killers. Should we be concerned about you then?
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Nov 7, 2017 01:16
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viral spiral posted:Should we be concerned about you then? I'm very far from an incel, and also curious whose alt you are to have this weird vendetta against me.
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Nov 7, 2017 05:43
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This is still the best fbi profile ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn0ylNZhOJI
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Nov 7, 2017 06:34
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precision posted:I'm very far from an incel, and also curious whose alt you are to have this weird vendetta against me. It's called a joke jfc
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Nov 7, 2017 07:01
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I just watched all of the first season and most of it was good. I just wish it had less focus on Bill's family, Holden's girlfriend and Wendy's personal life. It didn't really add anything to the show. It would have been better if all of that was cut out and focused more on their work.
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Nov 10, 2017 10:47
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Eh it added a third dimension to them. It was useful for demonstrating how their work was affecting them psychologically (ie Holden was desperate to talk about it and theorise endlessly while Bill was having breakdowns in front of his wife).
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Nov 10, 2017 11:12
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The thing that fascinates me about Serial Killers is finding out how utterly bizarre and pathetic they are in any situation that isn't them killing. Especially BTK, you read up everything about him unrelated to his murders and he was fuckin idiot who couldn't spell to save his life(the cops thought he was doing it as an act, he wasn't.) and kept badly ripping off poetry in his letters. He almost accidentally died trying to take some pictures of himself in bondage gear in the woods because he tied himself up too tight and struggled for hours before breaking free. He's an absolute loving dweeb who just also happens to be a monster on the side.
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Nov 10, 2017 13:39
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I picked up a copy of the MindHunter book at Walmart for $6.99. I honestly don't know if I want to continue the book it after the prologue. It has John Douglas explain to us in horrifying detail how the stress in his pursuit of serial killers (studying grisly crime scenes, etc.) literally caused him to have a panic attack which ended with hemorrhaging in his brain; leaving him paralyzed on one side of his body head-to-toe. He had to learn how to walk again, speak without slurring his words, etc. I don't know how these people stay sane after looking at the most hosed up crime scenes imaginable along with interviewing the psychopaths responsible for them years at a time. Holy gently caress. I think I might just watch the show instead.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:40
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viral spiral posted:I picked up a copy of the MindHunter book at Walmart for $6.99. I honestly don't know if I want to continue the book it after the prologue. It has John Douglas explain to us in horrifying detail how the stress in his pursuit of serial killers (studying grisly crime scenes, etc.) literally caused him to have a panic attack which ended with hemorrhaging in his brain; leaving him paralyzed on one side of his body head-to-toe. He had to learn how to walk again, speak without slurring his words, etc. Pretty sure that was from viral encephalitis. John Douglas likes to stretch the truth a fair bit in his books.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:47
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Zaggitz posted:The thing that fascinates me about Serial Killers is finding out how utterly bizarre and pathetic they are in any situation that isn't them killing. Especially BTK, you read up everything about him unrelated to his murders and he was fuckin idiot who couldn't spell to save his life(the cops thought he was doing it as an act, he wasn't.) and kept badly ripping off poetry in his letters. He almost accidentally died trying to take some pictures of himself in bondage gear in the woods because he tied himself up too tight and struggled for hours before breaking free. He's an absolute loving dweeb who just also happens to be a monster on the side. he'd also fine people when their grass was like 1/4 of an inch too high.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:52
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Zaggitz posted:The thing that fascinates me about Serial Killers is finding out how utterly bizarre and pathetic they are in any situation that isn't them killing. Especially BTK, you read up everything about him unrelated to his murders and he was fuckin idiot who couldn't spell to save his life(the cops thought he was doing it as an act, he wasn't.) and kept badly ripping off poetry in his letters. He almost accidentally died trying to take some pictures of himself in bondage gear in the woods because he tied himself up too tight and struggled for hours before breaking free. He's an absolute loving dweeb who just also happens to be a monster on the side. I love how he got caught because he asked the cops if there was a way for them to get any identifying information from a floppy disc. They said no, and the dipshit believed it.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:36
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Dmitri-9 posted:For some reason all modern media has to show all smart men and some women as autistic. They turned Alan Turing from an athletic affable genius into a hateful nerd. Is that not the point of holden's character though? He's so different mentally that it is much easier for him to relate to and be intrigued by the mindset of the killers and the insights they have. It's why he's able to do the interview/confession scenes so drat well. Obviously this is going to come off as somewhat annoying for the viewer but it is needed for his character to work. If he was too relaxed and likeable it would be harder to believe he was capable of understanding and hunting down psychopaths. Catsplosion fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 23:18
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viral spiral posted:I don't know how these people stay sane after looking at the most hosed up crime scenes imaginable along with interviewing the psychopaths responsible for them years at a time. Holy gently caress. Look up the wikipedia on Bittaker and Norri. They truly brought out the worst in each other. It's disturbing and bad as all serial killers are. Short version is they kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered 5 girls in 1979. What is more disturbing is an audio tape of one of the tortures exists. It's played by the FBI to desensitize their agents to what actual torture sounds like. While the audio was never released to the public it was played during the trail for the courtroom and jurors. NBC news was filming outside and if you listen closely to it you can hear the screams. I can't link timestamps but skip to 26:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY4YmVi4_LQ
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Nov 10, 2017 23:38
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Digital Jedi posted:Look up the wikipedia on Bittaker and Norris. They truly brought out the worst in each other. I took this advice and wish I hadn’t. That may be one of the most horrible things I’ve read. These guys are the toolbox murderers discussed earlier in the thread (and what the new guy was listening to) gently caress.
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Nov 11, 2017 15:21
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Yeah for all the incredibly hosed up things serial killers do beyond just murdering, most of the bizarre poo poo we associate with them is done post-mortem. The toolbox guys really just wanted to torture people and killed them to avoid getting caught.
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Nov 11, 2017 15:43
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i mentioned it earlier in the thread but one of the detectives on that case killed himself. i've read the transcript and it bothered me more than probably anything i've read/heard/seen in my life. it's the one thing i wish i could unknow. Digital Jedi posted:I can't link timestamps but skip to 26:40 gently caress me. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Nov 12, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 20:49
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Surely the most disturbing part of this show was when Anna Torv's character decides to spend an evening eating tuna straight from the can on crackers. Is this really what people ate in the 70s?! Let alone a sophisticated academian like she's meant to be?
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Nov 13, 2017 10:28
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There’s only so many ways to keep her figure.
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Nov 13, 2017 17:47
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Comrade Fakename posted:Surely the most disturbing part of this show was when Anna Torv's character decides to spend an evening eating tuna straight from the can on crackers. Is this really what people ate in the 70s?! Let alone a sophisticated academian like she's meant to be? My mom was in her 20s in the 1970s, and has told me a few times about stuff she ate when she was very thin and trying to remain so (mostly as a "please don't be stupid and unhealthy like this" warning). She basically ate the same thing. Tuna, crackers, maybe an apple. It's nuts how little she would eat in a day.
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Nov 13, 2017 18:39
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For those that have read the book, is the scene at the end of the last episode based in fact or was it fictional, particularly the suicide attempt and having the agent visit him there? The physical intimidation aspect seemed to me to be partly inspired by this incident:quote:On one occasion, when Douglas' colleague Robert Ressler was in a cell alone with Kemper, Kemper—who at the time weighed 300 pounds (136 kg)—noticed the apprehension in Ressler after he had pressed a hidden button repeatedly to call a guard to open the cell yet not received a response and told him "Relax. They're changing the shift," but remarked: "If I went apeshit in here, you'd be in a lot of trouble, wouldn't you? I could screw your head off and place it on the table to greet the guard."[71] Ressler verbally sparred with Kemper until the guard arrived, ultimately leaving unharmed with Kemper displaying no physical aggression. Kemper also stated afterwards that he was joking, but Ressler never entered a cell alone again with Kemper and it became FBI policy to interview serial killers in pairs. Also, Kemper's Wikipedia article briefly mentions suicide attempts that took place before his trial, but nothing after he was sentenced.
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Nov 14, 2017 20:23
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Sand Monster posted:For those that have read the book, is the scene at the end of the last episode based in fact or was it fictional, particularly the suicide attempt and having the agent visit him there? The physical intimidation aspect seemed to me to be partly inspired by this incident: Having read up about Kemper before seeing the finale the point of the scene seemed more about Ford not fully realizing the world he was becoming a part of and letting his ego grow to the point where he enjoyed the positive press and attention and boasted about his amazing abilities and crime solving. Having Kemper cut himself just to get Ford to visit seemed shockingly out of character for everything to that point. Even when it almost looks like Kemper was lonely and wanted Ford to visit the core of the conversation between them was Kemper pushing Ford to admit to himself he's becoming obsessed with his profiling success and failing to realize he is changing in ways he doesn't understand. The hug was almost like a "congratulations you made a breakthrough"
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Nov 15, 2017 00:05
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My girlfriend really enjoyed the season but was not happy with Ford's personality changes in the last two episodes. I thought it was fine, part of the point of the show is showing how he loses his naivete, and in a more general sense, how this work is impacting the people working on it.
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Nov 16, 2017 19:59
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Sand Monster posted:For those that have read the book, is the scene at the end of the last episode based in fact or was it fictional I've said it before and I'll say it again, whether or not it was in the book has zero bearing on if it was fact or fiction. John Douglas has a reputation for spinning tall tales out of everything. Makes for entertaining books and shows, but I would never take his stuff for a reliable source.
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Nov 17, 2017 01:06
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again, whether or not it was in the book has zero bearing on if it was fact or fiction. John Douglas has a reputation for spinning tall tales out of everything. Makes for entertaining books and shows, but I would never take his stuff for a reliable source. I'm sure you have a source for this
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Nov 17, 2017 01:52
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viral spiral posted:I'm sure you have a source for this I can dig them up, I didn't exactly jot down everything I read in case a show about him would be good one day.
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Nov 17, 2017 02:15
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viral spiral posted:I'm sure you have a source for this https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/11/12/dangerous-minds especially the end
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Nov 17, 2017 20:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/11/12/dangerous-minds You're not wrong about John Douglas, but Malcolm Gladwell is also often full of poo poo. It's pretty hilarious reading John Douglas defending Karla Hmolka in one of his first books. He paints her as an absolute victim, with no shred of doubt that her husband brainwashed her into covering up his crimes through fear and abuse. After he wrote that profile, a video tape was found that showed that Karla was not only an active participant in the torture and murders her and Paul Bernardo committed, she was probably the dominant personality. Whoops.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:10
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Boy I hope the show goes in that direction.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:47
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Big Bidness posted:You're not wrong about John Douglas, but Malcolm Gladwell is also often full of poo poo. She's a free woman with kids right now. 
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Nov 18, 2017 00:09
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Groovelord Neato posted:https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/11/12/dangerous-minds They really did base Will Graham on this guy didn't they.
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Nov 18, 2017 01:39
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Dmitri-9 posted:They really did base Will Graham on this guy didn't they. Jack Crawford. And John Douglas actually hates Jack Crawford.
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Nov 18, 2017 01:41
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Steve2911 posted:I'm guessing either BTK will stay on the periphery for the whole story or the show will jump ahead long periods of time between episodes/seasons going forward. I don't think that the BTK would necessarily be part of a second season. The way that I interpreted the second half of the show was that they were essentially showing that profiling is non-scientific and very dangerous in the hands of overconfident people. Both Dr. Carr and Holden's girlfriend go out of their way to argue that what he is doing is not scientific and has no predictive value. His girlfriend correctly points out that in the Georgia case he was working backwards from a conclusion. The BTK reference, to me at least, seems to be there just to really drive home the point that profiling isn't what its cracked up to be. After all, the BTK case is perhaps the most egregious example of the failures of profiling. There may have been cases where the profilers were "more" wrong, such as in the beltway sniper case. But the BTK case is remarkable in that there were several profiles done, and ultimately all of them were wrong. This show isn't the story of a detective becoming Sherlock Holmes. It's the story of a detective destroying people's lives (such as the school principal) because he thinks he is Sherlock Holmes.
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Nov 18, 2017 03:53
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