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Kazvall
Mar 20, 2009




Dope.

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Monitor Burn
Nov 29, 2001
No clever to be found here

Instant Sunrise posted:

The boiling of the connector causes the pins to bend back to their original position.

Not that I've seen, you still have to re-bend the pins separately if they aren't making good contact. Boiling the connector just makes it easier to clean the gunk off the connector pins. I stopped recommending that people boil them because you can warp your connector if it sits too long at the bottom of the pot, especially aftermarket connectors. Find a way to keep it off the bottom if you can. Also if you re-bend the pins too far (again usually on aftermarket NES connectors), they can catch on a game cart edge and be bent or pushed into the back of the connector, which usually makes it beyond reach or repair. Its really a question of if you want to spend the time boiling, cleaning, and re-bending your cart connector vs buying a working OEM replacement for $8, or a BLW that completely solves the problem for $30.

Did I mention that aftermarket NES connectors are terrible?

Monitor Burn fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 02:24

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



Turbinosamente posted:

As a side note 90% of all Atari 2600 games fall into one or more of the following three categories:

1. shoot things for high score

2. dodge things for high score

3. collect things for high score

The trick is to find which combinations and variations of the above categories you like playing for five minutes before popping in the next cart.

the thing is even if you really like games with simple mechanics like that (I do), they're done way better on other machines. I think you really need to have a love for the particular way 2600 games look to be super into it as more than a curiosity. I never had a 2600 as a kid and my first game system was a colecovision so to me they just look really bad, but I guess I can see it if it's something someone grew up playing

Only Shallow
Nov 12, 2005

show

Turbinosamente posted:

Buying lots wouldn't be so bad if you could resell the duplicates but 2600 poo poo doesn't move even in game stores. Hell, I'm not even sure it'd be worth sending them to Atari Age to get some money off a homebrew.

aka "Better hope you like Combat"

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



Only Shallow posted:

aka "Better hope you like Combat"



reminds me of buying trash bags full of 2600 games from haitians at the flea market in the 90's. I must have had 20 combats

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008



is that a metal slug avatar?

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

MY OPINIONS ARE AS USEFUL AS NIPPLE HORNS ON A PRIMARCH



Turbinosamente
May 29, 2013

Let me res this up first.


Somehow I've never owned more than two Combat carts at once, I don't know how I've managed it either (don't buy lots?). And yes I'm largely a sucker for the label art, and the blocky look at times. I enjoy that your character in Haunted House is a pair of eyes, for example, it's kinda genius in a way. Definitely not a nostalgia thing though, I grew up coveting my friends' N64s.

Kazvall
Mar 20, 2009



I would blow Dane Cook posted:

is that a metal slug avatar?

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Chrome OS is shit
Every DSA is a cop



d0s posted:

the thing is even if you really like games with simple mechanics like that (I do), they're done way better on other machines. I think you really need to have a love for the particular way 2600 games look to be super into it as more than a curiosity. I never had a 2600 as a kid and my first game system was a colecovision so to me they just look really bad, but I guess I can see it if it's something someone grew up playing

Eh, sure, but on the other hand dealing with Colecovisions or Intellivisions often means finicky controllers or having to mess with those keypads too much. And usually by the NES/SMS the completely barebones stuff has been eschewed.

So I just play the games on a Harmony cart for the 5 minutes they last instead. The 2600 controllers also suck but don't tend to break as much.

BigRed0427
Mar 22, 2007

There's no one I'd rather be than me.


Ok, the Boil is done, now just gotta let the connector and the housing dry. I still gotta clean the ray shield though. And there appears to be a lot of gunk on the piece where all the output ports are. At least I hope it's gunk and not corrosion.

And if my pins aren't working better, I'll get myself one of those Blinking Light win sets. I'm not so much of a hardware purist that not pushing the cart down wont bug me.

BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 02:22

Karasu Tengu
Feb 16, 2011

Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter


I did a lot of work on my front loader NES short of ordering the BLW kit and never really got it working, so I bought an AV modded top loader instead.

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



fishmech posted:

Eh, sure, but on the other hand dealing with Colecovisions or Intellivisions often means finicky controllers or having to mess with those keypads too much. And usually by the NES/SMS the completely barebones stuff has been eschewed.

So I just play the games on a Harmony cart for the 5 minutes they last instead. The 2600 controllers also suck but don't tend to break as much.

I'm more talking about something like a MSX or very early Famicom (those games had been eschewed by the time the NES came out here but the Fami got a 3 year jump). Hell even a C64 has plenty of that stuff and it's waaay better than 2600

e: though colecovision works too, I just swap in a competition pro stick or something like a MSX joycard after using the keypad at the beginning to choose difficulty

e2: actually a cool project I may try is a little passthru with a keypad with 9pin connectors on each side to use any controller you want with a colecovision and not have to deal with unplugging

d0s fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 02:39

Kazvall
Mar 20, 2009



I might just turn a NES controller into a 2600/7800 controller.

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



Kazvall posted:

I might just turn a NES controller into a 2600/7800 controller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292236528823

e:

these are better http://www.ebay.com/itm/253136829169

e2: or just use a genesis controller

d0s fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 02:54

Kazvall
Mar 20, 2009



That is pretty neat. Probably more cost effective than me ruining a nes and a genesis controller.

On that sorta topic: Has anyone made a Zero Tolerance link cable here?

Kazvall fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 02:53

XYZ
Aug 31, 2001



Only Shallow posted:

aka "Better hope you like Combat"



Missile Command was such a good game.

I had E.T. So, so very bad.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Chrome OS is shit
Every DSA is a cop



Kazvall posted:

I might just turn a NES controller into a 2600/7800 controller.

Eh, I'd say stick with getting an official 7800 joypad. It's a bit more comfortable since its rounded on the edges.

..or don't I guess, because apparently they go for like $40-$70 now? What the hell, I didn't pay more than $15 for mine when I got my 7800. Guess I should have bought two back then.

d0s posted:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292236528823

e:

these are better http://www.ebay.com/itm/253136829169

e2: or just use a genesis controller

You'd need to mod all of those to get the 7800's second button to work though.

fishmech fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 03:15

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



fishmech posted:

You'd need to mod all of those to get the 7800's second button to work though.

weird, I have never messed with a 7800. is it just on a different pin? because making an adapter would be really easy

e:

fishmech posted:

..or don't I guess, because apparently they go for like $40-$70 now? What the hell, I didn't pay more than $15 for mine when I got my 7800. Guess I should have bought two back then.


similar thing, I was going to suggest the "SG commander" master system pad (made by hori in the NES style rather than master system hellpad) and it turns out they're ridiculously expensive now, when a few years ago they were pretty much worthless

d0s fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 03:25

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Chrome OS is shit
Every DSA is a cop



d0s posted:

weird, I have never messed with a 7800. is it just on a different pin? because making an adapter would be really easy

e:



similar thing, I was going to suggest the "SG commander" master system pad (made by hori in the NES style rather than master system hellpad) and it turns out they're ridiculously expensive now, when a few years ago they were pretty much worthless

So here's the 2600 pinout:


Here's the Genesis pinout (and you can see why it works):

(note that a 6 button controller overlays select-mode responses to the top 4 connectors, Z from up, Y from down, X from left and Mode from right)

Now here's the Atari 7800 pinout for the two buttons:


Notice that "both buttons" pin. Atari 2600 or other such joysticks will use that for their main fire button. The system doesn't have a problem with this in 2600 mode naturally and some 7800 games don't have a problem with it as they really only use one button. But games that need you to use the left and right fire buttons for different things can quickly become unplayable - they will tend to need to make sure the right pins get pulled for each seperate button plus the "both" pin getting pulled when both are active.

The MSX uses a saner solution for just two buttons:

Button 1 is the 2600 fire button, and they just put button 2 next in line.

Now one thing you might notice is the nominal power pin is in different places between the 2600, MSX and Genesis controllers even though they all more or less work together. That's simply because of the way the circuits are designed in the controller, it doesn't matter much what precise lines are ground and power input since L/R/U/D and the first Fire button or an equivalent are in the same locations.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.


Turbinosamente posted:

Buying lots wouldn't be so bad if you could resell the duplicates but 2600 poo poo doesn't move even in game stores. Hell, I'm not even sure it'd be worth sending them to Atari Age to get some money off a homebrew.

You donít even need to do gut Pac-Man carts anymore since you can buy reproduction 16K cart boards in bulk and 3D print all the shells you could ever want now.

I use a Master System joystick controller on my Atari

Regular Nintendo
Oct 8, 2004

Eyy, dis 's on da house!

Kid Fenris posted:

I love seeing game merchandise I never knew existed.

https://twitter.com/JohnAndersen21/...7115886592?s=09


The best Metal Slug is the GBC version.

https://youtu.be/duXk-vhjgOs

But yeah, Metal Slug 3 is the best. Metal Slug never had the tight control of a good action-shooter, so the extra routes, vehicles, weapons, and gimmicks of MS3 really helped.

Controls could not matter less in the last "level" aka hour of MS3, all that counts is you have a bank vault's worth of quarters

Code Jockey
Jan 24, 2006







hexwren posted:

what the literal gently caress

Exactly what I just said. Did they solder poo poo to the top of the processor


e. to say nothing about the loving wreck they made of the pins at the top of that poor processor

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



Regular Nintendo posted:

Controls could not matter less in the last "level" aka hour of MS3, all that counts is you have a bank vault's worth of quarters

all of MS3 feels designed for people who credit feed to get an "experience", though that last level is the most egregious example the whole game feels paced like that (it is very pretty though). the preceding games actually feel designed to be 1CCed with a bit of practice. I'm not really sure about any MS after 3 because once they shifted development to this place starting with 4 I gave up on the series. did they ever get better? I think I remember being really drunk and trying to play 5 or 6 co-op in a gameworks a long time ago and it was kinda fun I think

e:

fishmech posted:

The MSX uses a saner solution for just two buttons:

Button 1 is the 2600 fire button, and they just put button 2 next in line.

I really want to know exactly why atari chose to do what they did instead of go with this super obvious design

d0s fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 05:38

TVs Ian
Jun 1, 2000

Such graceful, delicate creatures.


d0s posted:

I really want to know exactly why atari chose to do what they did instead of go with this super obvious design

Iím guessing so that 2600 games could use either button. Thatís the only reason that makes any kind of sense to me, anyway.

Kid Fenris
Jan 22, 2004

If someone is reading this...
I must have failed.

d0s posted:

weird, I never had a problem with this, I'm able to accurately jump around an kill stuff without feeling frustrated by the controls. are you playing the real hardware or some weird port with input lag maybe?

Nah, I played 'em a bunch in the arcades. It's less about lag and more about the floaty jumps and lack of consistent diagonal shooting. It'd be fine for a regular platformer where you have a life meter, but most Metal Slugs kill you in one hit.

The Xbox version of Metal Slug 3 had a neat approach to credits: continuing pushed you back to the start of a level, so you had to learn the ins and outs of a stage to get through. It was a good balance between on-the-spot continues and one-credit runs. I couldn't beat the last stage without cheating, though.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Toilet Rascal

BigRed0427 posted:

Ok, the Boil is done, now just gotta let the connector and the housing dry. I still gotta clean the ray shield though. And there appears to be a lot of gunk on the piece where all the output ports are. At least I hope it's gunk and not corrosion.

And if my pins aren't working better, I'll get myself one of those Blinking Light win sets. I'm not so much of a hardware purist that not pushing the cart down wont bug me.

Elliotw2 posted:

I did a lot of work on my front loader NES short of ordering the BLW kit and never really got it working, so I bought an AV modded top loader instead.
I've loved my BLW to bits, it works wonderfully.

The only issue I've encountered with it is that in the Summer when my apartment is hot and I put in a very thick NES cart PCB, I get the impression that the connector warps a little bit and it will be hard to get it to work for a spell. Seemingly fixed by just taking some pliers and squeezing it a bit when it happens, or just leaving the NES alone for a few hours.

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Of all the many questions that arise when playing obscure games, the biggest one I have at the moment is why does this game have a custom Super GameBoy frame?



The title of the game is Karamucho wa Oosawagi, or Chaotic Karamucho. Karamucho in this case is a proper noun, it's a brand of Japanese snack food. So this is essentially a licensed games about the Japanese equivalent of Doritos. It's actually a GameBoy Color game but it's one of those with backward compatibility.

The game is a puzzle platformer. There are 100 levels, grouped into five areas of twenty levels each. Your goal on each stage is to collect three keys and then get to the exit door. So obviously there are tools that you use to get through each stage. You can jump two bricks high and drift quite a bit in the air. There are icons that you collect that let you pass through the pipe that they're next to, but they can only be used once. Bombs and lighters are pushable bricks, and everything within one square of a bomb is destroyed if they touch. For some reason the mouse icon lets you throw a fan to destroy blocks and enemies; also you can jump onto it and ride if you're fast enough. Some enemies can be ridden, but most will shoot at you.



One of the big complications in puzzle solving is the attack icons that let you shoot something that blow up bricks aren't just a single shot, they give you the ability to shoot for about five to ten seconds. Use it or lose it. Oh, and if your shot goes off screen before that time is up (they move really slowly), then you can get another shot off. There are a lot of puzzles that require tight timing to get multiple shots in or where you have to chase your own attack across the map.



"Tight timing" doesn't really describe how insidious this game gets. A lot of the later stages require pixel perfect movement and timing. I got stuck for a long time because I didn't know you could edge jump up. If it doesn't work after a few dozen attempts, you look for other solutions. But it just required absolutely precise timing and movement. There's some deadly platform jumps as well, and holes that you have to pass through that require perfect alignment or death.



And that makes Karamucho wa Oosawagi more frustrating to play than it should be. The controls are flaky enough that I sometimes didn't know if I was failing because my timing was a millisecond off or if it just wouldn't work. They also really like instant failure conditions; did you move one pixel to the left as you started the stage? Well now it's unbeatable. There's a lot of level real estate given over to inescapable death traps.

FWIW, I've managed to beat 99 out of the 100 levels, so let's see how you do with the one I'm stuck on. I'm beginning to suspect that it's broken but if anyone has a solution I'm happy to listen. Here's the relevant part of 4-20:



The last key is the pit on the right. The pit is too high to jump out of if I get into it (there is a brick I push into the pit below me to get out of that). The icon on the right lets me fire a shot that breaks the dark bricks on the right. If the far right dark brick is broken, the lighter and the bomb meet and the key is destroyed and there still is no way out of the pit. I can break just one brick by backing off so that it's at the edge of the screen, but that leaves me trapped. If there was one thing to stand on, then the door would be reachable. The lighter and the bomb cannot be destroyed and can only be pushed. There's no way to get anything else into the pit area.

Karasu Tengu
Feb 16, 2011

Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter


Nate RFB posted:

I've loved my BLW to bits, it works wonderfully.

The only issue I've encountered with it is that in the Summer when my apartment is hot and I put in a very thick NES cart PCB, I get the impression that the connector warps a little bit and it will be hard to get it to work for a spell. Seemingly fixed by just taking some pliers and squeezing it a bit when it happens, or just leaving the NES alone for a few hours.

The main reason I didn't buy the BLW at the time was that it was still super limited release and I was impatient.

Quiet Feet
Dec 14, 2009

THE HELL IS WITH THIS ASS!?



I came as fast as I could. Which is my usual response to Illbleed.

It's not totally reliable but I've noticed that the graphs for several systems on VG Pricecharting have seen a downturn over the past year and a half. The Saturn, Dreamcast and PS1 have all seen dips and even a lot of Nintendo's systems have level off. You're never going to get your Marios for fifty cents from little old grannies yard sales but I think that the climb is over. Seems like a lot of the common popular NES games have already seen a small decline in the same time. 2-3 years ago I was routinely seeing SMB2 for $20, Contra for $40, Zelda for $30, and all of those are about $5-$10 cheaper at this point.

Turbinosamente
May 29, 2013

Let me res this up first.


Quiet Feet posted:

It's not totally reliable but I've noticed that the graphs for several systems on VG Pricecharting have seen a downturn over the past year and a half. The Saturn, Dreamcast and PS1 have all seen dips and even a lot of Nintendo's systems have level off. You're never going to get your Marios for fifty cents from little old grannies yard sales but I think that the climb is over. Seems like a lot of the common popular NES games have already seen a small decline in the same time. 2-3 years ago I was routinely seeing SMB2 for $20, Contra for $40, Zelda for $30, and all of those are about $5-$10 cheaper at this point.

Good I'm not imaging it, shits beginning to level off finally.

Still getting rid of some of my excess of games by asking myself a variation of the desert island question: if I lost all of my games, which ones would I buy back first? Which ones would be last?

It's lead to my accepting that I don't care much for Sonic or early Mortal Kombats/some other fighting games, and that there are only so many DS puzzle games one can handle. On the flip side in this scenario I would start by getting back most or all of my PS1 collection starting with Top Shop, then start digging through my 16 and 8 bit favorites. The N64, Gamecube, and GBA I grew up with and wanted so badly would actually be near the bottom of the list because not only have my tastes changed, I've played some of those games way too much and there isn't much more I can wring out of them.

What would you guys get back first (or more accurately which rom would you be sure to slap on the flash cart first)?

BigRed0427
Mar 22, 2007

There's no one I'd rather be than me.


So I put the NES back together and fired it up. It works but I still need to fiddle with the cart repeatedly to get it to work. SO I bit the bullet and wen't ahead and bought the BLW mod. I should have it by the end of the week.

edit: So now, God help me, I'm looking at the AV mods for the front loader NESes. I'm also looking at Monitor Burn's SAMart thread. What do you all recommend, the NESRGB or the Hi-Def NES HDMI? If I wanted to take that next step. I'm probably going to pay him to do it, if I do.

BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2017 around 23:26

Null of Undefined
Aug 4, 2010

I have used 41 of 300 characters allowed.


Cart fiddling is one if the main reasons why I love my everdrive and av fami

Djarum
Apr 1, 2004

I promise, that one day, everything's going to be better for you.


Soiled Meat

BigRed0427 posted:

So I put the NES back together and fired it up. It works but I still need to fiddle with the cart repeatedly to get it to work. SO I bit the bullet and wen't ahead and bought the BLW mod. I should have it by the end of the week.

edit: So now, God help me, I'm looking at the AV mods for the front loader NESes. I'm also looking at Monitor Burn's SAMart thread. What do you all recommend, the NESRGB or the Hi-Def NES HDMI? If I wanted to take that next step. I'm probably going to pay him to do it, if I do.

Honestly The Hi-Def NES is the better option at this point. It effectively does everything the NESRGB does and more without requiring extra hardware.

worthless. posted:

Cart fiddling is one if the main reasons why I love my everdrive and av fami

Same. Honestly if you are going to invest in NES hardware this is the way to go, especially if you are going to get it modded.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?


I picked up a pair of sega 6 button genesis arcade sticks today from a local shop for $20 each (looks like I got a pretty good deal because for the most part they go for between $25-50 on ebay plus shipping) and they made me want arcade sticks for the rest of my poo poo. For the NES and SNES I know I want advantage sticks and for the dreamcast, the one with the green buttons, but what's a decent pc-engine arcade stick?

McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!


Fun Shoe

GutBomb posted:

I picked up a pair of sega 6 button genesis arcade sticks today from a local shop for $20 each (looks like I got a pretty good deal because for the most part they go for between $25-50 on ebay plus shipping) and they made me want arcade sticks for the rest of my poo poo. For the NES and SNES I know I want advantage sticks and for the dreamcast, the one with the green buttons, but what's a decent pc-engine arcade stick?

The PC Engine ASCII stick is just the NES Advantage all over again. But that also means it uses rubber dome switches for the stick so it's "mushy" in the same way the NES Advantage is.


Hori released a six button fighting stick that uses actual mechanical switches instead of rubber domes. That means the stick is "clicky" like you'd find in an arcade cabinet and most people prefer that. I think Street Fighter 2 was the only game that used all six buttons. Also, I think the metal base is notorious for rusting.


If you REALLY want to burn some money you can hunt down a Micomsoft XE-1 Pro HE. It has a switch based stick that can convert between 4 and 8 way direction. The buttons have adjustable turbo sliders and you can rotate them to change the angle. There's even a built in multi-tap on the side so your friends can play Bomberman with you.


Oh yeah, there's also the official Turbo Grafx Turbo Stick. But I don't think anyone likes it.


Edit: Hori also released something called the Fighting Stick Multi. The big deal here is it came with swappable cables so you could plug it into a Super Famicom (SNES), Megadrive (Genesis), or PC Engine. Rare, expensive, and I can't speak to the quality.

McCracAttack fucked around with this message at Oct 18, 2017 around 01:24

Light Gun Man
Oct 17, 2009

toEjaM iS oN
vaCatioN


Lipstick Apathy

Has anyone figured out a good use / home for unwanted super common stuff these days? Like the aforementioned Combat carts, or Genesis sports games? Is there someone that uses them as donor carts for something good? I have a bunch of beat up lovely commons around that aren't even worth selling but I would like to do something with eventually. Preferably something better than "I made a throne out of mario/duck hunts".

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



GutBomb posted:

I picked up a pair of sega 6 button genesis arcade sticks today from a local shop for $20 each (looks like I got a pretty good deal because for the most part they go for between $25-50 on ebay plus shipping) and they made me want arcade sticks for the rest of my poo poo. For the NES and SNES I know I want advantage sticks and for the dreamcast, the one with the green buttons, but what's a decent pc-engine arcade stick?

You actually don't want advantage sticks for the NES, they're not microswitched. Look for this (ascii stick)



or this (ascii stick II turbo)



or this (micomsoft xe-1 FC pro)



These are all Famicom sticks so if you want to use em on the NES you get an adapter. For the dreamcast yes that green stick is the best. The good PCE sticks are this (hori fighting stick pro):



and this (micomsoft xe-1 HE pro:




e:

McCracAttack posted:

Edit: Hori also released something called the Fighting Stick Multi. The big deal here is it came with swappable cables so you could plug it into a Super Famicom (SNES), Megadrive (Genesis), or PC Engine. Rare, expensive, and I can't speak to the quality.


I've heard really bad things about this

e2:

for SNES you want this (capcom fighter power stick)



or this (halken jb king)



or this (hori fighting stick)

d0s fucked around with this message at Oct 18, 2017 around 01:43

d0s
Jun 28, 2004



honestly though it's 2017 and you can discount all the stuff I posted above unless you are crazy and/or wealthy, get or build one really good stick with sanwa or seimitsu arcade quality parts and slap one of these in there https://paradisearcadeshop.com/fgc-...mc-cthulhu.html

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McCracAttack
Feb 21, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!


Fun Shoe

You could also try to find one really good PS2 stick and then get a bunch of these adapters. You may not like the default button layouts though.

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