apple v6.1.2: ride the fat lightning

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > apple v6.1.2: ride the fat lightning

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Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Phone posted:

idk vulkan seems alright vOv

it's fine, but apple doesn't natively support vulkan either

plus there's still a ton of poo poo that uses ogl. even though they're working on it apparently, it's not like you can use something like zink right now

Agile Vector posted:

oh geez

did she get the computer to go with the wheels?

lol

# ¿ May 11, 2022 19:50

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 10:14

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

BobHoward posted:

m1 family chips already have gpus in the same raw performance class as today's high def consoles. 32c m1 max gpu: 10.4 FP32 TFLOPs, PS5 GPU: 10.3 FP32 TFLOPs

lol if you think integrated and sharing automatically implies bad and/or limited

the reason you've been trained to think that way is decades of intel / amd igpus which had far too little memory BW to feed a GPU because they were designed to go into low cost shitboxes

the current gen consoles are all integrated SoCs just like m1, and they do fine, because they (and m1) have enough memory bandwidth to feed their gpus. comparing to PS5 again: m1 max provides 409.6 GB/s memory BW, the ps5 SoC has 448 GB/s

software is a legit issue, not because there's anything fundamental missing but because software written for immediate mode GPUs (amd, nvidia) needs optimization work to avoid common performance pitfalls on apple's tile based deferred rendering GPUs. the main theme is needless flushing and reloading of intermediate results

that's the downside, the upside is that TBDR with software that takes advantage of it uses less raw resources (tflops, memory BW) for the same rasterization performance (or extracts more perf out of the same resources). that's why apple went with TBDR long ago - in phones efficiency is king

blender performance on m1 is WIP. apple employees are contributing, but progress hasn't been super fast, as is normal in big open source projects with old codebases

this is a good post but measuring poo poo in FLOPs as a basis for comparison is ridiculous. that's the same reason people thought the PS3 would be ridiculously powerful, but it ended up being either at par or worse than the 360 in most practical applications. that's not to say you couldn't force some wizardry out of it, but it was exceedingly difficult to do and most devs didn't bother

most M1 parts are not going to be the M1 max. like you said: it's scalable, but designed primarily as an embedded soc for phones. if you're going to be using a stack that's apples all the way down, it's good. if not, prepare to face disappointment

# ¿ May 11, 2022 21:27

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Phone posted:

eh, everything has been consolidating towards a SOCingularity for a while. shoot, even intel's getting into it with the P+E cores on the 12th gen processors.

FLOPS might be more relevant now than it has been in the past because of the lack of variety when it comes to architecture. your point about the PS3 is spot on; however, both the PS4 and Xbone were x86 boxes for the most part (with the switch basically being an android phone) and the PS5 and Xbone Elite Series One X continued that trajectory. the PS1/2/3 had a massively different architecture than the xbox being a celeron box or the 360 being a power mac g5. more and more stuff is being abstracted out in software and the hardware is maximizing for memory bandwidth, how many numbers you can juggle isn't an awful yardstick.

i would bring up whatever the api standardization nvidia, amd, and intel were doing, but i forgot the details... maybe something about raytracing? dunno

that's what i was getting at earlier. the thing about nvidia, amd and intel: they're not apple. they're also standardizing around vulkan and dx/ogl, but macos and ios offer no support for either, even if the hardware can handle it. apple is increasingly going its own way and that ended rather badly last time

# ¿ May 11, 2022 22:34

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

they probably will though, if only to drive apple silicon adoption. i'm sure it's fine for now and i've seen the benchmarks showing it to sometimes actually be faster, but the same was true for the first rosetta.

they both unsurprisingly have the same problem: if you're running an app that depends on it, that app isn't being updated. it's been about two years since universal 2 was introduced. if the dev hasn't announced an intention to port to arm, it's probably not happening

there's also several hundred million intel macs out there, something that absolutely was not true about ppc. they're not going to be receiving (os) updates anymore, either, probably pretty soon. i know i'm not the only person that's abandoned the platform recently, and if you don't support the same stuff everyone else uses, then guess what? you're left with a handful of niche devs like the ppc days because new devs will invariably learn the other stuff.

idk, maybe it's just me, but the outlook is pretty gloomy

# ¿ May 13, 2022 00:53

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Achmed Jones posted:

from my perspective osx dev has always been pretty niche. it was important for people to dual boot windows when they were trying to get folks to switch, but now i think the primary drivers are ecosystem effects from iphone and such, developers, the still-present (if silly) idea that macs are "for creatives", etc.

nobody gives a poo poo whether or not os x runs on x86, they just care that it runs their software well. don't get me wrong, if browsers and everything stopped supporting m1 then yeah it'd be a problem. but everything that people actually use seems to be releasing m1 builds, and people that need to use/janitor legacy crap stopped using macs a long time ago

i mean hell i'm one of the few people that has a legit reason to care about architecture (VMs for binary exploitation stuff) and even that i just kinda figured gently caress it, if i care that much i'll run it on a different machine

anyway i could be wrong about everything im kinda talking out of my butt

my point wasn't really about architecture per se, it was more that if apple silicon isn't really widely adopted the platform will stagnate. while it's true that there are a ton of ios devs, they, well, target ios; imo even with the new frameworks running ios poo poo on macos is a pretty awful experience (macos' ui itself is objectively shittier now too). since you gently caress with binaries i'm gonna assume you know just how lazy developers can be and that's doubly true if they're cross-platform

basically if apple creates a bunch of couture poo poo you need to use the platform, and doesn't allow poo poo that translates it (like moltenvk) to be used in the store, a lot of people are just gonna say "ok gently caress it then"

# ¿ May 13, 2022 01:16

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Kazinsal posted:

the fact that rosetta 2 slaps pretty hard will keep apple silicon relevant even if developing for it stays niche

also being able to boot non-macOS operating systems on it now will help keep the grognard segment interested because they'd generally rather buy apple than have an intel management engine or whatever

it'll probably be removed within a release or two, especially when they end os development for intel

so inevitably a bunch of poo poo will be left using outdated apis and frameworks for however long they keep rosetta around. that's not really great?

also, other oses like... well, there's just linux, and it barely works on the m1. windows on arm doesn't work. poo poo like the notch ruins the hardware design. it's just not compelling to me

# ¿ May 13, 2022 03:12

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Plorkyeran posted:

i think you're confusing apple for google if you think it's going away in a release or two.

as a former apple employee i assure you i am not

# ¿ May 13, 2022 03:33

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

chaosbreather posted:

omg mcdonalds will probably start murdering people who order shakes instead of making them shakes

to me, this scenario i invented out of whole cloth is completely realistic and i can't stop shivering, we gotta do something

i used to work at mcdonalds so i that's how i know to imagine things about mcdonalds

also the straw ruins the aesthetic for me

hahaha yeah nobody here justified their arm purchase by mentioning a x86 JIT, what the heck is that guy talking about?

maybe he might know something about how the place is run though

# ¿ May 13, 2022 03:42

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

chaosbreather posted:

if you did work at apple, which no-one believes because you talk about it constantly like a nintendo uncle, then it seems highly likely you got fired for not knowing how the place is run

yeah man never happened

also lol i wasn't fired.

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:13

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

chaosbreather posted:

so to summarise you�re saying this heavily redacted extremely generic payslip jpeg with absolutely nothing to prove its authenticity or to even tie to you, dated in 2008 and addressed in Texas, proves you have mastery and clairvoyance over the decision making taking place 22 years later in a different state, yeah?

yup

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:27

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

you're too dumb to get it, it's not your fault

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:30

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

chaosbreather posted:

nah

nice macbook screenshot

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:40

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

mod saas posted:

i spent more than a decade at a household-name company that lots of current/former employees namedrop and its absolutely cringe as gently caress when they do

apple gives me the same vibes, the dichotomy of people who need to make sure everyone knows they were the real-life Nintendo uncle and its their god-given right to have a soapbox vs everyone else who alludes to it only when extremely relevant and they have something meaningful to say and otherwise keeps their head down

vague jpeg poster probably did a summer at apple retail or some poo poo

part time!

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:45

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

it's me i was one of those weirdos that stand at the front of the store, for four hours a day, for three months, and then got fired for not saying hello

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:49

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Lady Radia posted:

i know but here's my hosed Up perspective: i like working on cool technology and i like working on computers

it may not be the place for you, the technology is increasingly bad and they exclusively make embedded devices now

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:54

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

chaosbreather posted:

its an ipad pro actually. here, i'll prove it, i just got a photo with my boss holding it

its actually a macbook mac mini and an imac, sorry

tim is a bad boss and isn't good at managing. i miss steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeqPrUmVz-o

# ¿ May 13, 2022 04:59

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Lady Radia posted:

swift on embedded

have i got news for you,

# ¿ May 13, 2022 05:01

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

chaosbreather posted:

man that is a sexy demon

why aren't video games sexy any more, you'd think will all of this vr money floating around someone would have done something

enjoy (nsfw i guess)

# ¿ May 13, 2022 05:22

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

jill of the jungle always be teasing those pixel tits

# ¿ May 13, 2022 05:55

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

r u ready to WALK posted:

I bought timbs 4000 dollar computer and my first experience with it is that my MOTU usb midi interface is now randomly dropping notes and completely unusable
good jorb

thats way too much to pay for an ipad

# ¿ May 13, 2022 07:24

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

LanceHunter posted:

We're sharing our Apple pay stubs? I'll even leave in my embarrassingly low pay.

Also, if you have a pay stub from Apple with the Riata Vista address that is dated from pre-2010, then you were almost certainly in either Applecare or Finance. Those were really the only divisions that had major presence in the Austin offices back then.

lol, they all come from there. it's where their bank is. i would never set foot in texas, then or now

e: either way i posted literally the only one i still have saved, i needed it for an apartment rental. its not that mysterious. i quit in 2016

Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 16:41 on May 13, 2022

# ¿ May 13, 2022 16:31

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Phone posted:

apple�s gonna be in real trouble when they change payroll providers, which is gonna happen any day now

i know this is a shitpost but getting out of texas would be objectively a good thing

rjmccall posted:

i don�t know why this thread is so invested in trying to catch this incredibly lovely poster in a lie instead of just ignoring them, but apple finance is indeed based in texas, and all the checks, w2s, etc. do indeed come with that address on them

they mad because i don't like apple's direction right now, but seriously thanks for this because "lol it's from a different state, couldn't possibly be true/must've been retail" is loving dumb

# ¿ May 13, 2022 20:49

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

DELETE CASCADE posted:

what about apple's direction don't you like? it appears to be a direction that prints money

just go back about 5 pages. see also: bsd thread

# ¿ May 13, 2022 21:08

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

LanceHunter posted:

Applecare isn't retail.

We spent years being at the bottom of the Apple totem pole until retail came around, and were very happy to finally have a division in the company that could actually consider a move into the Applecare as a career advancement.

is&t was a fascist shitshow so i moved into management but that was even more of a dumpster fire

Jonny 290 posted:

does this have something to do with sodimm and nvme slots

it's more that they're becoming increasingly proprietary and limit what you can do with the os significantly compared to earlier releases

e: lol trying not to doxx myself here

Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 13, 2022

# ¿ May 13, 2022 21:27

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

BobHoward posted:

what are these limits you keep vaguely handwringing about though

please be specific, you like to claim there's things you can't do now but never really say what

also on the hardware side you've made several comments hinting that you're one of those weirdos who think its history and relationship with phone silicon means m1 can't possibly be real computer, which is lol

try to modify /usr/local without disabling a bunch of crap, modify /System, install a kext, run something that uses opengl, or...

...yeah i'm not going to neckbeard hard here but there's a lot of limits on what you can do now. sucks but it's true

you're also missing the point about the m1. there's not enough product differentiation to make, say, a macbook air a compelling purchase over a mac mini or the ipad air/pro, or even the macbook pro, and the hardware designs are not great

steve would have literally flogged someone over the notch and especially the rumored "pill"

# ¿ May 13, 2022 22:39

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

actually just try modifying the root directory in general. you can't without disabling poo poo in recovery mode.

# ¿ May 13, 2022 22:44

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

to be clear i have an ipad air 5 and i like it, so it's not like i'm just dunking on the m1 because intel blah blah.

it's just that i don't think macos should be transformed into ios because you're eventually going to be facing the same limitations on what you can actually do with it. one is an embedded platform, the other used to be a general computing platform, and macos is quickly turning into the former

# ¿ May 13, 2022 22:50

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

yeah i totally get that and it's fine, i just don't have a totally irrational hatred for macos as some people seem to think (some of that was just trolling). i just find it disappointing compared to previous releases, ui included

# ¿ May 13, 2022 22:56

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

infernal machines posted:

well, you see, you are wrong to want to do this

apple provides computing appliances. within the bounds of apple's intend use, they work with minimal friction. outside of that, not so much

that's sort of connected to my point, i don't really want whatever apple's continuously devolving intended use is dictating what i can and can not do with my own poo poo that's purportedly a unix system.

infernal machines posted:

otoh the laserwriter continues to be the best printer apple ever made

lol it was literally a computer

# ¿ May 13, 2022 23:28

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

infernal machines posted:

is native linux on m1 useable yet?

i mean relatively speaking, i know it's linux

not if you want to use the gpu, apparently

# ¿ May 13, 2022 23:32

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Sniep posted:

uhhuh

a-shell is pretty neat and i use it for ffm-pegging poo poo on ios, but once you run up against the limits of ios_system, you hit a pretty hard wall

as a solution to not being able to run native binaries it uses webassembly. it's a pretty clever solution imo but of course it's extremely limited and slow in practice

# ¿ May 13, 2022 23:38

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

infernal machines posted:

postscript is a motherfucker

i still find it amazing it's a general programming language you can use to exploit poo poo like 40 years later

# ¿ May 13, 2022 23:43

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

rotor posted:

true fact: postscript was the first language i learned as an adult.

i am so, so sorry lol

infernal machines posted:

i still find it amazing that 40 years later it remains possible to entirely accidentally create a pdf that will use more memory than is available in the system when you attempt to print it

yeah, pdf being a subset of ps is pretty bad. i haven't tried to do much of anything in postscript in like 20 years (except attacking ios' eps renderer

) but the legacy cruft is just unnecessary now

# ¿ May 13, 2022 23:52

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Sniep posted:

what

i was just joking with jonny that ios terminals do exist

dunno about whatever pegging poo poo

i was talking about this. it's a pseudo-shell that includes native versions of ffmpeg, imagemagick, clang, python, perl etc. as libraries. it's pretty neat, but like i said, limited

# ¿ May 14, 2022 00:07

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Gentle Autist posted:

who cares about any of this poo poo, i get all my work done without having to janitor my operating system in some neckbeardy way and that�s the way i want it

# ¿ May 14, 2022 08:11

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

Lysidas posted:

those limits are reasonable for security and fedora silverblue is a linux experiment in the same direction, never used it due to inertia with debian and ubuntu, but the idea of a totally immutable base operating system image does have a lot of advantages

yeah i mean i get it, but the implementation is kinda dumb (a bunch of dmgs, basically, at least the last time i used it).

Plorkyeran posted:

not being able to use /usr/local is the most incredibly irrelevant thing. you can just use any other path of your choice.

the immutable base image is broadly a good thing but it includes some stuff that it really shouldn�t

admittedly it's an edge case and i don't really give a poo poo about utilizing /usr/bin, it was just an example for a broader point about fs access. as another example there's also limits on frameworks etc. if you're going to be using the app store, but that's not really new. the signed binaries only policy is, though, and it's objectively lovely to have to go through a bunch of steps to run other stuff

again: i get why it's implemented that way. that doesn't mean i have to like it

i guess the broadest point is that i liked it better when os x was basically a posix distro that was actually pleasant to use in the days of kde and gnome 1/2. most people won't give a poo poo :shrug:

# ¿ May 14, 2022 09:34

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

BobHoward posted:

opengl is still there though??? frozen in time at 4.1, but that didn't change with m1

tbf it's clear you've got the weird brain disease which insists that naive OG unix system design decisions like "root is capable of writing any file" must be preserved forever, and what you really hate is that apple's trying to move forward from the 1970s

thing is, they were doing that all along. they started down the path to immutable /System by introducing /System in the first place. it's not even remotely standard unix filesystem hierarchy, and the idea was always to explicitly separate "files which are distributed as part of the OS" from "files users and administrators can/should modify". iirc the only intentional exception to this design policy was /System/Library/Extensions, and i'm pretty sure i've seen apple kernel people say that allowing third party kexts to be installed there was a mistake they quickly came to regret

lol what

just amazing that you think things which are very obviously different from each other are completely the same, actually

also even if we accept your judgement on the notch etc, stebe greenlit plenty of things which were bad aesthetically (fine corinthian leather UI) or commercially (powermac g4 cube) or functionally (hockeypuck mouse), on top of which it's gross and bad to support a personal opinion by putting it in the mouth of a dead person

thing is, that system structure came from nextstep and you're an idiot

# ¿ May 14, 2022 10:17

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

"this guy who famously hated things that ruined cohesive design maybe didn't and also he's dead" -a literal moron

# ¿ May 14, 2022 10:20

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

yeah let me just watch something on my rad new oled iphone max pro plus, surely the oval cutout won't be horrifyingly annoying

# ¿ May 14, 2022 10:22

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 10:14

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

man wide displays are awesome even if the aspect ratio is hosed at 19.5:9, lemme just pull up rdp and i can use my computer just like at my desk!

oh wait poo poo something's blocked by the pill. damnit gently caress

# ¿ May 14, 2022 10:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > apple v6.1.2: ride the fat lightning

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