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Baron von Eevl posted:Statistically you're probably better off just buying keys on the market when there's a steam sale and people get desperate to unload them, then trade those for an unusual directly. Not to mention the saved labor costs. Didn't know keys went on sale during Steam Sales. Is that on Marketplace.TF, or direct from the TF2 store? I watched a couple of videos the other day, and I found that keys are the main currency for trading. I think the recommended amount of keys to buy is around ten-to-fifteen, but I don't grasp the process of buying $25 worth of keys, and then trading them for Unusuals. The Unusuals I've seen listed are way more expensive than that, but I suppose the prices fluctuate.
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Jul 26, 2020 22:09
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Max Wilco posted:Didn't know keys went on sale during Steam Sales. Is that on Marketplace.TF, or direct from the TF2 store? The idea is that keys sold by Valve through the Mann Co store are price-locked at $2.49, but keys sold by players on the Steam Community Marketplace tend to be cheaper. When a Steam (Games) Sale happens, players with keys will "quick-sell" them on the Community Market to afford whatever games they want. You can usually save ~25 cents per key during these runs. After the sales end, keys go up again. Right now, keys are $2.49ish on Community Market, because the Steam Sale recently wrapped up. As per unusuals, pricing isn't so much set in stone, it's subjective and pricing is more or less thought of as a guide. You'll easily find players antsy to get rid of an unusual for fewer keys than it is worth if it means a sale now versus holding onto it for another 3-6 weeks waiting for someone to pay full price. I agree with Baron von Eevl - save up some keys and go shopping for the hat you want - it's EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to break even when opening crates. Otacon fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 23:16
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Otacon posted:The idea is that keys sold by Valve through the Mann Co store are price-locked at $2.49, but keys sold by players on the Steam Community Marketplace tend to be cheaper. When a Steam (Games) Sale happens, players with keys will "quick-sell" them on the Community Market to afford whatever games they want. You can usually save ~25 cents per key during these runs. After the sales end, keys go up again. Right now, keys are $2.49ish on Community Market, because the Steam Sale recently wrapped up. I forgot you could buy keys on the Steam Community Marketplace. Looking at the prices back around December, it looks like they did get pretty cheap. Marketplace.TF has them for about $1.90 right now, so I wonder what price they'll be at on there when the next big Steam sale hits. I thought maybe I'd get lucky with opening crates, but that hasn't been the case. I've only bought like five or six keys in total, but then that's more than I've bought ever before. I didn't buy keys back when they were a new thing, so I have a ton of unopened crates and cases that I've been hanging onto. Honestly, the whole trade/barter thing is a little scary to me, I guess because I'm worried about getting ripped off, or pissing someone off if I don't accept their trade. I also don't have a particular item in mind that I want to get. There are some effects I think look really cool, but some get super-expensive. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 23:41
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Max Wilco posted:I forgot you could buy keys on the Steam Community Marketplace. Looking at the prices back around December, it looks like they did get pretty cheap. Marketplace.TF has them for about $1.90 right now, so I wonder what price they'll be at on there when the next big Steam sale hits. Marketplace.tf's fees are a lot lower than the Community Marketplace - definitely continue buying them from there. Trading is a lot easier than you might think, but there's always ways to get scammed. I'd recommend finding a hat you like for a class you play a lot, and just seeing what effects are within your price range. If someone wants 25 keys, offer 20 and see what happens. They'll usually come down a little - very few people pay whatever the buy-out is priced at.
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Jul 26, 2020 23:57
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Also remember if you ever get tempted to use those keys instead of spending them, the odds of uncrating an unusual are 1/200. And when you do get one you're likely to get one valued 10-20 keys, that you just spent 200 keys unboxing.
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Jul 27, 2020 02:46
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Pretty much the only time it's worth opening crates is when they're brand new and their contents haven't flooded the market yet and there's stuff you want
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Jul 27, 2020 03:09
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Don't spend money on online casinos.
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Jul 27, 2020 03:16
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Jabor posted:Don't spend money on online casinos. Yeah honestly gently caress valve for implementing this system.
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Jul 27, 2020 07:25
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brap posted:Yeah honestly gently caress valve for implementing this system. while I have a massive amount of love for the game, tf2 was the camel's nose under the tent on massive over-monetization of games. First TF2, then CS:GO, then every other publisher looked at the fat stacks steam was raking in and started diving for the lowest common denominator. Nowadays every AAA is trash riddled with MTX and there's only any pushback in the most egregious cases (like battlefront II 2). poo poo there's MTX in single-player RPGs nowadays. loving disgusting and a lot of that ties back to what Valve started.
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Jul 27, 2020 07:34
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TF2 has been valve's crash test dummy for a while now.
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Jul 27, 2020 07:48
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Jippa posted:TF2 has been valve's crash test dummy for a while now. Yeah. It wasn't a big deal back in the day but now that they've basically abandoned TF2 you can see all the poo poo they used it as a testing ground for before promptly loving off to the games that have all the whales. The contracts, crates, weapon skins, season tickets, etc. Even map and game modes, all of which have been completely abandoned
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Jul 27, 2020 08:10
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On the other hand without all the money from crates TF2 would have probably died out around 2012 or so rather than still being somewhat alive to this day
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Jul 27, 2020 09:04
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Otacon posted:Marketplace.tf's fees are a lot lower than the Community Marketplace - definitely continue buying them from there. Trading is a lot easier than you might think, but there's always ways to get scammed. I'd recommend finding a hat you like for a class you play a lot, and just seeing what effects are within your price range. If someone wants 25 keys, offer 20 and see what happens. They'll usually come down a little - very few people pay whatever the buy-out is priced at. I guess I'll wait for a sale and then scoop up some keys and see if I can trade for an Unusual for Medic, Heavy, or Pyro. Baron von Eevl posted:Also remember if you ever get tempted to use those keys instead of spending them, the odds of uncrating an unusual are 1/200. And when you do get one you're likely to get one valued 10-20 keys, that you just spent 200 keys unboxing. Jabor posted:Don't spend money on online casinos. Should I keep buying Tour of Duty tickets? Those aren't as expensive (99¢, and less than that on Marketplace.TF), and you still get Killstreak kits and have a chance for an Australium. drrockso20 posted:On the other hand without all the money from crates TF2 would have probably died out around 2012 or so rather than still being somewhat alive to this day As much as I don't like the lootbox system, one thing I think Valve did that put it above most others is letting you turn around and trade or sell those items to other people.
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Jul 27, 2020 21:15
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Max Wilco posted:Should I keep buying Tour of Duty tickets? Those aren't as expensive (99¢, and less than that on Marketplace.TF), and you still get Killstreak kits and have a chance for an Australium. At least with these you get to play the game, but I always thought it was absolutely silly that you had to dime in a ticket for every leg of the tour - the ticket should just let you play the whole tour. It's just more price obfuscation, you convert your actual currency into tickets and you don't realize you're spending $4-6 to get a killstreak kit that you still don't have all the parts to build. Their surplus tickets are also loving hilarious, spend $2 to give a bunch of people you will likely hate by the end of the round an extra normal item drop. Wowee! Solanumai fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 21:26
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It pays off if you're like my friend who got a professional rl kit from a tour, saving him upwards of $50
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Jul 27, 2020 21:28
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Yeah, I got a gold botkiller scattergun when MvM was brand new and it paid for my first unusual. That's not a normal result.Max Wilco posted:Should I keep buying Tour of Duty tickets? Those aren't as expensive (99¢, and less than that on Marketplace.TF), and you still get Killstreak kits and have a chance for an Australium. You should buy them if you enjoy playing Mann Up. Chances are very low that you'll get back more than the cost of the tickets. I actually unloaded my unusual a while back because I realized I hated it and by having this expensive hat I was wanting to show it off to the point that I would never wear anything else, and the dress up part of the game fell by the wayside. I have more fun having a bunch of seasonal outfits for each class and rotating them.
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Jul 27, 2020 21:56
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Max Wilco posted:As much as I don't like the lootbox system, one thing I think Valve did that put it above most others is letting you turn around and trade or sell those items to other people. No that's what makes it literally gambling. You buy lottery tickets (keys) for real money, and can trade the virtual items back for real money. Yes there is a second factor of "market value" for the virtual items but you can mostly ignore that, it's still a lottery. I hope more governments get their poo poo together and regulate this kind of gambling.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:01
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I mean it's technically better than blizzards system, where you pay them real money and it stays in their stats and in their hands. At least with valves horrible gambling you can technically cash out
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Jul 27, 2020 22:30
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Grapplejack posted:Even map and game modes, all of which have been completely abandoned it's pretty funny that arena was basically a battle royale mode and it was dead on arrival there are valid reasons for that of course, but...
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Jul 27, 2020 22:33
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Shere posted:At least with these you get to play the game, but I always thought it was absolutely silly that you had to dime in a ticket for every leg of the tour - the ticket should just let you play the whole tour. It's just more price obfuscation, you convert your actual currency into tickets and you don't realize you're spending $4-6 to get a killstreak kit that you still don't have all the parts to build. That's actually one thing I really dislike: with the Two Cities Tour, you get a handful of robot parts, but that starts eating up your inventory space after a few tours. I've not had any real bad experiences in MvM, though. With most of the games I've played, everyone's been really competent, and haven't been any restarts. Baron von Eevl posted:Yeah, I got a gold botkiller scattergun when MvM was brand new and it paid for my first unusual. That's not a normal result. I do find Mann Up pretty fun; it's a nice change of pace from normal TF2, with the PvE setup, and the upgrades make for some fun setups. nielsm posted:No that's what makes it literally gambling. You buy lottery tickets (keys) for real money, and can trade the virtual items back for real money. Yes there is a second factor of "market value" for the virtual items but you can mostly ignore that, it's still a lottery. Grapplejack posted:I mean it's technically better than blizzards system, where you pay them real money and it stays in their stats and in their hands. At least with valves horrible gambling you can technically cash out I know there was some legal action against lootboxes about a year or so ago, and it made me wonder how TF2 would be affected if lootboxes were banned outright.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:36
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Grapplejack posted:I mean it's technically better than blizzards system, where you pay them real money and it stays in their stats and in their hands. At least with valves horrible gambling you can technically cash out lootboxes but trading is definitely better than lootboxes but no trading, because at least you can sell the stuff you don't want and get what you actually wanted. the system as implemented in Overwatch and similar, where if you really want one specific item the only way to get it is to just keep spinning the wheel over and over again till you get it, and as you get more and more items you start getting worse and worse outcomes (consolation coins, etc) is incredibly exploitative, that's basically complete gacha. I'm not gonna pretend like lootboxes are great but at least you go into it knowing it's probably a net loss of money, offset by the chance of a big gain if you unbox some sick hat. If you choose to stay clear of that you can just buy whatever items you want, which I'm fine with (as they are completely cosmetic and community driven). compared to the complete gacha systems, or gameplay-affecting lootboxes/other gameplay-affecting mtx, TF2's system is relatively benign. I got my fun out of the season passes and stuff, etc, in fact I probably made money selling the paints and stuff that you unlock when you finish. But there's no question TF2 was the camel's nose under the tent. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 22:39
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Speaking of hats I wonder sometimes about the guys who made a billion hats like sparkwire or svdl Do they even need to work anymore? Are they still pulling in a bazillion dollars in royalties?
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Jul 27, 2020 23:03
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Paul MaudDib posted:it's pretty funny that arena was basically a battle royale mode and it was dead on arrival Arena was more than just a battle royale! 
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Jul 27, 2020 23:20
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On the other hand, you have to pay for a key every time you get a crate, and that just sucks. The economy could also be downright inscrutable and was prone to a lot of hyperinflation. I love TF2, but I really don't like Valve's implementation of lootboxes.
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Jul 28, 2020 01:14
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If they did the thing where you get a free opened box every time you filled a bar, thatd be neat.
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Jul 28, 2020 01:18
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Max Wilco posted:Didn't know keys went on sale during Steam Sales. Is that on Marketplace.TF, or direct from the TF2 store? TLDR: If you're buying keys or tour tickets, go to marketplace. There's even a code (uncle) that you can use every 24 hours to get 11 keys for the price of 10.
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Jul 28, 2020 01:40
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drrockso20 posted:On the other hand without all the money from crates TF2 would have probably died out around 2012 or so rather than still being somewhat alive to this day sometimes dead is better
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Jul 28, 2020 02:00
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i feel fairly confident that all the crates and hats and poo poo didn't motivate valve to add any additional good maps or functional items to this game, and that the game would also probably run better if all of that stuff was just gone
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Jul 28, 2020 03:12
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brap posted:i feel fairly confident that all the crates and hats and poo poo didn't motivate valve to add any additional good maps or functional items to this game, and that the game would also probably run better if all of that stuff was just gone I dunno if they ever would have bothered getting around to the pyro jetpack otherwise, so it's a fair trade in my eyes.
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Jul 28, 2020 03:36
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Grapplejack posted:It pays off if you're like my friend who got a professional rl kit from a tour, saving him upwards of $50 I opened a crate once and got a $40 unusual, it still wasn't worth it and didn't justify the other times I used keys and got a normal item worth pennies. I might have broken even if I tallied everything up. The prospect of the slot machine paying out doesn't make it not gambling. The only positive thing I can say about their monetization system is that they kept it cosmetic, which is more of a bare minimum expectation than anything. The worst thing about it is that by most modern game's standards they're super stingy with free rewards. These dumbass boxes constantly hit your inventory and you never, ever happen across a way to open them without hitting the convoluted hat markets or buying a key. I was able to become modestly hat rich by just playing the game for a long time and being around for poo poo like the L4D/Earbuds promos, Soldier's Medal, and various genuine hat pre-order rewards for games I was buying anyway. I also once traded IRL clothing for hats. If anything, all this stuff made me overlook the bad parts of the monetization scheme, but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been a funny ride.
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Jul 28, 2020 06:34
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I just throw all my crates on the steam market for like $0.02 or $0.03. It takes a while for the queue to burn through but it’s not like I’m marketing enough anyway to run out of market slots, and fifty cents is fifty cents.
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Jul 28, 2020 06:38
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the crates and poo poo 100% gave the game a longer life than it would ever have gotten and imo it was mostly a positive. having said that, valve pioneered the horrorshow that is lootboxes and for that they are unforgivable. you could say that at least some of the money goes to the makers, which alright, fine, but its still an insanely predatory business model. and the fact that theress an economy around it only precipitates the depths it can go (csgo underage gambling, for example). a lot of it is out of valve's "control" i guess but its facailitated by all of it. put it in quote marks cause they showed they can crack down on that stuff like the cease and desists they made as for me, i think i opened a total of 10 crates across cs and tf2, the rest of them being drops which have financed and continue to finance my steam summer sales so its a win 
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Jul 28, 2020 06:48
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The last time I opened crates was when every single crate gave you an unusual I'd probably keep opening crates if it was still like that
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Jul 28, 2020 06:49
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also ive been seeing a few tf2 youtube vids and its getting me in the mood. i hope creators.tf still has a brazilian cluster
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Jul 28, 2020 06:51
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About 6 days ago a tf2 frag video popped up on youtube and I got the overwhelming urge to play, so I reinstalled, redid my configs, found an updated version of the hud I used and the last five or so days I have played 25 hours. Slotting back into the flow of the game is like riding a bike. I have been playing only casual but it has been great. Plus there are maps I do not recognise so I have been experiencing new fighting places. There are tons of bots joining matches to cheat, but the games I have played both teams have been really, really good about kicking them as soon as they appear. Also had a lot of good interactions with people, though I did get voted off a game yesterday because as I joined, I asked why there were five people with the same name all clustered together in a bunch. I assume they were all bots and the team only had 6 people so all five of them voted me off! Oh well. Still it has been great to just have fun and do well in the game again. I hope I can stick with it for a while again.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:52
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I’m back to playing only community servers. Uncletopia is pretty good if your in the US or EU, it’s ran by YouTube engineer main Uncle Dane. Stock maps with no crits, random spread, or random damage. Creators.tf is getting better community wise after their mini implosion because one of the founders didn’t like the no racism/bigotry rule the rest of the founders decided on. They play some more eccentric maps and have some custom weapons to unlock, but so far they haven’t been egregious or really noticeable in all honesty.
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Jul 30, 2020 13:56
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Yeah creators.tf is good. No crits is weird. Its like good, but im still in a mindset of "break out the desperation melee and hope you get a crit"
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Jul 30, 2020 14:54
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I'm not generally a fan of nocrits because I think random crits help make the game fun and exciting and can easily turn a stalemate, but I understand how sometimes it feels unfair to die to them (even though you can totally get them too). I really think the game should build in like three or four levels of nocrits: First tier would be no random crits on rapid-fire weapons like pistols, miniguns, and flamethrowers. All other weapons randomly crit as normal. Second/third tier would be no random crits for other ranged weapons (shotguns, flares, explosives). Maybe you could split this up with explosives and slow-firing ranged weapons like shotguns, crossbow, whatever at different levels but melee still critting randomly. Final tier would be no random crits at all. I think random melee crits should always be a thing personally, because history favors the bold and nailing a random melee crit is always hilarious.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:14
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Nocrits is good As someone who is good murdering someone with a crit is cool but its also not great since I didn't do anything to earn that kill, like the sick fuckin airshot I got the other day
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Jul 30, 2020 16:16
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I agree with melee crits in principle but TF2's netcode gets way too janky in melee. It's already a crapshoot if a melee hit registers at all, they don't need an instakill roll on top of that. edit: also more broadly crits run into the issue that trying to balance through randomness always does. for every time that a random crit or two breaks up a gnarly stalemate and gets the game moving again to the generally greater enjoyment of all, there were a dozen times where a random lucky shot gibbed someone fresh out of spawn or something equally dumb. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 16:18
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