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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Burt posted:


Ramming doesn't automatically kill you. unless you are a fighter. :haw:

As far as I can tell, even this isn't true. It seems like the game just looks at which plane had more HP at the time of the ram, and whichever one is higher survives and takes some minimal damage. For example, I've rammed multiple heavily shot up bombers from a single Command Center raid with a fighter and survived (barely).

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Nordick posted:

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this cap point distribution?



I mean, there is some thought behind the design. One side gets two cap points that don't do anything special, the other gets only one, but it's the one that calls in bomber raids. Now whether it works or not could be debated, but there is a reason to that.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

MoraleHazard posted:


Also, Burt, do you mean the Warhawk? I think WG screws around with the damage figures so the 50 cals on the P-51A do more damage than 50 cals on the P-40. I like the 50 cals too. A B-25 Mitchell could have 18 forward facing 50cals. That would be funny.

Kittyhawk was what the British and Soviets called the late model P-40s they operated.

Also, while this has been fun so far, balance just seems to be an utter and complete mess. For comparison's sake there are 3 Heavy Fighter lines in the game (US, German, British), and here are the numbers of their T10s. Due to the mess of different researchable components at lower tiers, it was the simplest tier to compare.

pre:
Gloster Javelin
HP       1200
Guns     1572
   DPS        330
   RoF        300
   Range      800
Airspeed 1124
   Top Speed 1100
   Stall      250
   RoC         78
   Optimum    747
Maneuver 448
   RoR         70
   Control     78
Altitude 3000
-Does not carry bombs

XF-90
HP        700
Guns     1234
   DPS        180
   RoF        600
   Range      820
Airspeed 1204(-14)
   Top Speed 1150(-40)
   Stall      300
   RoC         78.8(-2.8)
   Optimum    862
Maneuver 380
   RoR         90
   Control     79
Altitude 3000
-Carries bombs (2 x 5200, 75m)

ME 262 HG III
HP       700
Guns     1626
   DPS        350
   RoF        330
   Range      700
Airspeed 1143(-13)
   Top Speed 1100(-40)
   Stall      300
   RoC         63(-2.3)
   Optimum    804
Maneuver 444
   RoR         80
   Control     79
Altitude 2800
-Carries bombs (2 x 5000, 75m)
Like, why the hell does the British one have nearly double the health of the other two, when all other stats are reasonably similar? Being able to carry two long reload bombs does not particularly seem to compare.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Oct 26, 2017

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

JuffoWup posted:

Yeah, I've noticed that a few times. Our team has all the caos, I'm in my il-2, all I can do now is just base defend against enemy attack fighters really.

The flip side to this is that there are far more ground targets at any given cap to attack than defense aircraft, meaning it's a lot easier to cap bases with them than fighters, and more than a few fighter lines (US, I'm particularly looking at you) struggle to do much to most ground targets - a few machine guns plus limited strafing time due to speed means unless you get a fire you're not doing much to at least one, and usually multiple-to-all, building in every ground target. This is especially true if you've got idiot bots/players with you that accomplish little and then just die, setting back your cap progress. As a fighter I've run out of defense aircraft to shoot more than a few times, rendering me pretty ineffective at capping the point until more spawn, while attack aircraft generally do not have that issue.

And if your team has already taken most/all the caps then sure the attack aircraft player now has little to do, but the game's probably going to be a win shortly anyways.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Eh, nowhere near as silly as the Pancake (US tech tree T8 Heavy Fighter).

Also, skimming the tech tree, I've got no idea how effective it actually is but after noticing it I now I really want the F-94D. Because who needs multiple guns when you instead have a 3000 RPM Vulcan? Could be missing one, but not seeing any other plane in the game that has the option of equipping a rotary cannon. Plus I just really like that kind of design (shared with a few other US fighters not in the game).

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

The strangest part of the WoWP bots will continue to be why WG felt the need to program them talking to each other into the game.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012


It's fun, and I'm glad to have an Airacobra in my hangar to look at. You definitely need to reliably hit with the 37mm cannon though, because the rest of your guns are anemic.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

ugh its Troika posted:

Oh man people in ground attacks get real mad when you sidle up to them in a Ta-152 and then remove almost their entire health bar with one crit from a 30mm cannon. This thing was trash before 2.0 because all it saw was jets and such, but now it's much more flyable.

Due to me temporarily mixing up model numbers, this reminded me that there's an unfortunate omission in the German tech tree. Namely the Do 335, which was a really unique fighter-bomber that really should be in the heavy fighter tree. Could have easily been slotted in instead of the virtually nonexistent 109Z, or just shift the 262s up and slot it in at T8, because the line really does not need three different 262s - especially when there are other options.

Saw it again for the first time in a while around 2 weeks ago, so just happens to be on my mind. Or is the 335 already a premium that was released at some point?

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

RandomPauI posted:

I had to quit for the night after a series of battles where human players went for the garrisons over and over again instead of the factory, the control center, or the rocket launcher.

Just a note here, but for Mining Complexes at least, unless it's a mid-map one where the enemy team is contesting, it's an utter waste for most fighters to go there instead of trying to cap something else. Mining Complexes have precisely 0 defending aircraft, which reduces them to just strafing mostly hardened targets.

I mean, you want them overhead to defend later, but at the beginning it's an utter waste.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

What are recommended pilot skills for the various plane types anyways? I've got a fair idea for a decent number, but wanted to query those who've played for a while (and/or just have high skill captains they can already experiment with)).

In particular I've been playing fighters, so I've been feeling that Aerobatics Expert, Marksman I & II and Evasive Target are good for the first 10 points, but I'm less certain for the last 5. Maybe Resilience or Adrenaline Rush, plus Battle Tested? Or the two Engine Guru skills?

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

From experience with human P-51As on my team, it seems incredibly underwhelming. Four .50 caliber guns just do not seem to cut it, and it's actually got a lower gun rating than the P-40 even when fully upgraded. The P-51D at T7 looks like it is probably fine, but the A model at T6 looks like it's probably a tedious slog.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Mans posted:


The Mustang has been a tremendous disapointment. It can't turn as well as any turn fighter, but it's not that faster than anything else either, while the .50 cals are really anemic and take forever to shoot someone down with.

Meanwhile the Spitfires and Messerschmidts seem to do everything the Mustang does much more efficiently.

Again, you should probably compare the D model (or H, for that matter) to its tier equivalents to get a real comparison. The A model is anemic by any standard, but at T7 it looks there are some actual pros and cons for all the fighter lines.

With that said, the real reason the Spitfire's so good is the same reason certain other picks in various WG games are so good - their big disadvantages aren't represented in-game, so instead they just get their full advantages, while lines that compromised to not have that disadvantage get jack poo poo. The Spitfire, especially the earlier models but the issue persisted for the entire line, had absolutely horrible range. Early war, it was good for close-range interception and that was about it. Hell, even its iconic role in the Battle of Britain is mostly false, with the vast majority of the work done by Hurricanes - and I'm pretty annoyed that line is nowhere in the game, just getting four models of Spitfire instead.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Because realistically, the type of gun given to the rear gunner on a plane that size became effectively worthless as fighters evolved. The weight and space required for a decent gun could be far better spent on literally anything else - from engine size to armor to just mounting an extra gun on the front of the plane.

Basically, one of the biggest concerns for fighters of any type was ammo capacity, so adding an additional, very situationally useful gun means needing ammo space for it that you can't use for other, more useful, guns. Moreover, anything supposed to be used in a fighter capacity really has other concerns than waiting for a rear gunner to plink away at a following plane - that's what a wingman and/or BnZ tactics was for. I think someone already mentioned it, but something like a Spitfire had enough ammo for its cannons for a whole 5 seconds of sustained fire. It was a huge issue, and one that this game completely glosses over, meaning certain design decisions are far more effective here than in real life. Especially when combined with the arcade elements in the game.

Dual or quadruple engined bombers are a different matter, of course, but there aren't many(or any of the latter) of those in the game (and they're mostly neutered in number of rear guns anyways. Likely because given certain arcade aspects they'd be far too effective otherwise).

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Nov 29, 2017

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

The Stuka suffers from the problem that it's at the same tier as the Il-2 which also has the dual 37mm option, if not quite as long-ranged or damaging as the Stuka's, while still carrying both a heavy bomb and rocket loadout - and having more health. Take away the 37mm option on the Il-2 and the Stuka would at least have a niche, but as-is there's really no reason to play it outside of just grinding through the plane.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Well, took screencaps and submitted them with my ticket of just how not working the RB-17 mission is. Let's see what happens.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Burt posted:

Just breath deep and go play something else until it's patched.

Bad time of year to do any updates without testing but how the gently caress they can mess up just adding a 5x weekend I will never know.

Oh, the point of it wasn't to hope they'd fix the 24 hour mission in time (which they wouldn't, especially since their entire office is off currently), but just to put the complaint on official record and see what comes of it.

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Creamed Cormp posted:

fuuuuuck 3 days in a row where I don't get a mission to complete, after getting 3 missions on the first day...

Given I've gotten precisely 1 mission total in something like 22 boxes, and it was the completely bugged RB-17 one, this is an incredibly weak complaint.

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