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Ham Sandwiches posted:For whatever reason people felt the need to predict that it was a scam and endlessly post to avoid it entirely ~for whatever reason~ How many exchanges absconded with client funds?
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Oct 25, 2017 18:15
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Ham Sandwiches posted:He said it was a currency, which the goon financial analyst with 140 IQ claimed it absolutely was NOT, I posted that article to show that well, what do you know, he's wrong It's not a currency though. quote:"I think the better path for bitcoin is to actually make it a digital currency, a currency that you and I can take on our travels and use actually to buy stuff and sell stuff. If that happens, then I'm OK with the pricing," said Aswath Damodaran, a professor of corporate finance and valuation at New York University's Stern School of Business. Talking about how it should be MADE a currency doesn't mean it is a currency right now. And then he says this quote:Separately, in a blog post on Tuesday, Damodaran laid out why he sees bitcoin as a currency without investable value. Without explaining why it is a currency. But even he says you can't invest in it and its only for speculative trading at this point. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 20:28
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I offered that article as proof of a person, on TV, calling Bitcoins a currency. That's pretty much it buddy. I can show you someone on TV saying that Nibiru is coming but that doesn't make it real. Also that dude is waffling because he is quoted as saying it is a currency but also that it isn't a currency yet so which is it. BTC is not useful as a unit of accounting or a store of value. It is okay as a medium of exchange but that alone doesn't make it a currency. By definition.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:34
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Well, New York University professor of corporate finance and valuation Aswath Damodaran, seems to feel that Bitcoin is a currency For the 3rd time, that article quotes that guy saying it is a currency and that also it can be a currency one day and that's its path forward so... it can't loving be both at the same time dude. Also, quote:"I will argue that bitcoin is not an asset, but a currency, and as such, you cannot value it or invest in it. You can only price it and trade it," This blows apart all your other arguments of "you're an idiot if you don't buy this!"
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Oct 25, 2017 20:39
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Well, in his blog that he wrote on the topic, he says it's a currency. That's why I posted that article. A digital currency, a cryptocurrency. quote:"I think the better path for bitcoin is to actually make it a digital currency, a currency that you and I can take on our travels and use actually to buy stuff and sell stuff. If that happens, then I'm OK with the pricing," said Aswath Damodaran ... Fuckin schrodinger's Bitcoin over here.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:43
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Ham Sandwiches posted:You seem to be unable to reconcile people expressing things slightly differently in different contexts, but since the blog post was his prepared views on the topic, why not go with that since it's pretty comprehensive He's using a pretty specific definition for argument purposes imo. Here's the crux of his argument: quote:The first step towards a serious debate on bitcoin then has to be deciding whether it is an asset, a currency, a commodity or collectible. Bitcoin is not an asset, since it does not generate cash flows standing alone for those who hold it (until you sell it). It is not a commodity, because it is not raw material that can be used in the production of something useful. But that's a very specific definition of commodity. A commodity is also any marketable fungible good or service where instances of it are treated as equivalent with no regard to their origin or who produced them, which is basically exactly what BTC is. Either way he's making an interesting argument unrelated to what you are talking about and in that same blog post he also, in a nutshell, calls people like you extremely foolish. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 21:15
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Yeah he defines currencies then calls it a currency, which you seemed to take pains to avoid. You are willing to admit he called it a currency, yes? I think you're just misreading. quote:Viewed through this prism
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Oct 25, 2017 21:19
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Ham Sandwiches posted:He flat out says that it's a currency, if you can't literally read the words that guy is using and he's saying "It's a currency, but has some issues remaining" as "Well maybe it's not a currency" then it appears there's something defective with your ability to process words You flat out don't understand basic economic concepts so idk what to tell you lol. His fundamental point is that you can't really put a value on it or invest in it and can only spot price it which makes it useless for basically everything you are advocating.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:21
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Remember in the other thread when you were tripping about people calling it gambling?quote:Trading is a much simpler exercise, where you price something, make a judgment on whether that price will go up or down in the next time period and then make a pricing bet. quote:Biggest Danger(s)
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Oct 25, 2017 21:22
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quote:Key skill IE not you or anyone posting here probably lol.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:23
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Ham Sandwiches posted:He also says it is a currency. A currency. That's what he calls it, and that's what he feels best describes it. So then, bitcoins are a digital currency, a cryptocurrency. He also calls it gambling.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:24
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He also says thisquote:As units of account, there is no reason to doubt that they can function, since they are fungible, divisible and countable. The weakest link in crypto currencies has been their failure to make deeper inroads as mediums of exchange or as stores of value. Using Bitcoin, to illustrate, it is disappointing that so few retailers still accept it as payment for goods and services. Even the much hyped successes, such as Overstock and Microsoft accepting Bitcoin is illusory, since they do so on limited items, and only with an intermediary who converts the bitcoin into US dollars for them. I certainly would not embark on a long or short trip away from home today, with just bitcoins in my pocket, nor would I be willing to convert all of my liquid savings into bitcoin or any other crypto currency. Would you? Ham Sandwiches posted:You can gamble with dollars, and that's another currency. You go to a casino, and you are gambling - with currency. So you concede that it is in fact gambling and not a sure thing like you were insisting for dozens of posts in the last thread?
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Oct 25, 2017 21:25
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lol this guy is actually tearing your arguments the gently caress apart I'm glad you linked thisquote:Ultimately, though, I lay some of the blame on the creators of the crypto currencies, for their failure, at least so far, on the transactions front. As I look at the design and listen to the debate about the future of crypto currencies, it seems to me that the focus on marketing crypto currencies has not been on transactors, but on traders in the currency, and it remains an unpleasant reality that what makes crypto currencies so attractive to traders (the wild swings in price, the unpredictability, the excitement) make them unacceptable to transactors.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:26
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Ham Sandwiches posted:No, not at all. I'm simply saying that if something is a currency it doesn't preclude people choosing to gamble with it. You can gamble with any currency, so I dont know why you are bringing gambling on it. This discussion is about bitcoins being a currency. So when the blog says "it is a currency" that's undisputed truth but when the same post says "buying BTC is like gambling" then no it's wrong? lmao He also unfairly dismisses BTC as not a commodity imo given that there is a measurable cost to their production but whatever that's an argument that I don't think is really worth having at this point because it's like I'm arguing against a wall.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:28
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lmao
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Oct 25, 2017 21:43
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LGD posted:so you've (arguably) won a semantic argument about what bitcoin conceptually is at the cost of admitting bitcoin is a terrible iteration of that concept relative to the alternatives lol Ham Sandwiches posted:Well, here's what I don't do. I don't give people garbage advice telling them to run, not walk, from digital currencies that they can mine with their spare GPU cycles in their own bedroom out of a misguided idea that I know better and I'm saving the ignorant masses from themselves. The blog you linked gives that same advice, though. Basically he concludes with "well you *can* make money if you are a good trader and have some kind of competitive edge against the market" which 99.999% of people absolutely aren't and don't.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:51
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I always said it was a commodity not a currency and tbh I still stand by that.quote:The head of South Korea's central bank has ruled out classifying bitcoin as a currency, arguing that cryptocurrencies are a form of commodity instead.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:52
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The Commodity Futures Trading Commission also considers BTC a commodity.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:53
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Ye Fools in Great-Britain, repent in your Folly Bewailing the Loss of your Money and Lands, Unto your Vexation, 'tis fled from the Nation, And Blockheads and Ninnies have got it in hand.  Lament not your Folly, for now 'tis too late It is sunk in the Ocean as they do pretend, A Bites but a Bite Sir, all the World over, 'Tis a long Pudding that has not an end COMRADES fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 22:01
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"Monsters as they are," asked Cato in reference to stockjobbers, "what would you do with them? The Answer is short and at hand, Hang them." A thousand stock-jobbers, well trussed up, besides the diverting sight, would be a cheap sacrifice to the Manes of trade; it would be one certain expedient to soften the rage of the people; and to convince them that the future direction of their wealth and estates shall be put into the hands of those, who will as effectually study to promote the general benefit and publick good, as others have, lately, most infamously sacrificed both to their own private advantage. Something is certainly due to both the former. The resurrection of honesty and industry can never be hoped for, while this sort of vermin is suffered to crawl about, tainting our air, and putting every thing out of course; subsisting by lies, and practising vile tricks, low in their nature, and mischievous in their consequences.
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Oct 25, 2017 22:18
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Ham Sandwiches posted:More than 90 funds focused on digital assets like bitcoin have launched this year, bringing the total number of such "crypto-funds" to 124, according to financial research firm Autonomous Next. Just because it is possible to make money trading or doing arbitrage doesn't mean anyone on here should engage in those activities. According to that blog post you posted, the only way you will be successful is if you have some kind of competitive edge over the rest of the market which you most assuredly do not. This is literally penny stocks but in a different format. And funds usually make their money from the fees when other people buy in not from the underlying asset lol.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:12
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It's not a currency.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:18
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LinYutang posted:this is such an lol distinction that nobody gives an actual poo poo about It's actually a huge distinction lmao because if all the 3rd party processors disappeared tomorrow Steam would still accept your USD.
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Oct 29, 2017 00:58
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lol another person who has no idea what they are looking at. If the USD is not safe then literally nothing is including all the infrastructure necessary in order for BTC to function at all hth
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Oct 29, 2017 06:30
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Monkish At A Soot posted:Looks like the end of economics as we know it to me. Possibly the end of capitalism. In this environment the insane and abnormal can become sane and normal, which would go a long way to explain the bitcoin phenomenon. Both M1 and M2 have surged so a decline in M1 and M2 velocity even during otherwise robust GDP growth makes sense.  
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Oct 29, 2017 06:35
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I think it's dumb that credit has replaced rising wages in recent decades in order to fuel continued consumer spending and there's some very bad issues with our market and the global market at the moment but nonetheless those velocity of money charts aren't really evidence of anything. I also think it is dumb to present absolute debt and not debt as % of GDP which is more meaningful and we're actually better off than we were in 2007/2008 in that regard last I checked. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Oct 29, 2017 |
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Oct 29, 2017 06:39
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I just don't see the future in a monetary system predicated on wasting poo poo tons of electricity just to sustain some kind of artificial deflation which is good and supposed to encourage use versus hoarding according to someone who doesn't have a background in finance but rather in tech/engineering. I also think it is hilarious that BTC was originally supposed to be some anonymous secret cryptocurrency to safeguard you from surveillance and "big banks" but the longer it exists the more it becomes regulated and watched just like everything else so what's even the point? What material difference would a bitcoin give me that a dollar wouldn't? Besides the wildly fluctuating value of course.
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Oct 29, 2017 06:43
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Monkish At A Soot posted:lol you actually want someone with a finance background making decisions that affect other people. What a great communist this guy is. Communism is all about economics you dipstick. Why would someone who has no idea how economics works be a good fit to create a monetary system and its rules? Nice defense by the way - the last stand of GBS these days is apparently "but COMMUNISM."
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Oct 29, 2017 06:46
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Like, Karl Marx studied and went to university for economics lmao what the gently caress are you even talking about.Monkish At A Soot posted:What it does is remove the banks monopoly on economic activity and money creation, which is huge and important politically. Okay and so like I said the longer it exists the more this power lies in the hands of "mining conglomerates" who only have their own best interests in mind anyway so good job fuckwits you've created an AnCaps wet dream and it works just as stupidly as you'd expect. Monopoly on economic activity and money creation meanwhile Chinese mining conglomerates run the blockchain at this point.  because THE FED IS EVIL meanwhile most of you can't even explain how the Fed works or why it exists. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Oct 29, 2017 |
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Oct 29, 2017 06:48
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On the other hand it is kind of cool because it is a short version of the history of the development of monetary systems and you are all running into the same problems and coming up with more or less the same solutions (increased regulation and control) that humans have already been through over the last few hundred years. Just wait until kiting BTC transactions becomes a bigger thing.
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Oct 29, 2017 06:53
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AnCaps get the bullet tbh.. Last one I talked to started telling me about how his wife and children were his property and then I asked him how that can be under anarcho-capitalism and he got real butthurt. e: look at this idiot lmao 
COMRADES fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Oct 29, 2017 |
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Oct 29, 2017 06:54
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Stealing electricity to mine for virtual currency in hopes of becoming wealthy in the hollow shell of a Soviet factory that once employed thousands is quite the imagery.
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Oct 30, 2017 17:52
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poverty goat posted:something v bad has happened to ethereum https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/07/a-major-vulnerability-has-frozen-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-of-ethereum/ quote:A major vulnerability has frozen hundreds of millions of dollars of Ethereum Stay safe poverty goat
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Nov 7, 2017 19:05
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lmao "What does this function do?" *shuts down entire financial platform*
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Nov 7, 2017 19:27
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Smythe posted:I hate to think about bit coin and the fortune I could have had... Sitting at work like a chump while the guy who dried raspberries on his computer is rich........ FML Think about this while you're at it  OBAMAAAAAAAAAA
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Nov 7, 2017 23:32
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Machai posted:Also I thought it was difficult to actually turn your bitcoins back into real money? Honestly this is one thing Ham Sandwiches is right about. I have no idea where this meme of "can't pull your money out!" comes from. I suppose it was more or less true back in the first year or so. Like yeah okay if you try and pull millions out at once you'll likely have to wait a while... but if it was impossible to get your money out then Chinese people wouldn't be using them to get their Yuan out of China you know?
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Nov 8, 2017 23:49
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Hob_Gadling posted:I'm not sure I believe this. If most bitcoin users are chinese trying to get their money out, who would put dollars in the system and why? You'd have to be pretty silly to actually buy something like that. Rubes, speculators, Ham Sandwiches. Don't underestimate the power of people with money to be idiots, or greedy, or both. I was just talking to a real estate agent who was telling me not only does he have multiple offers from foreign places to buy property here in CA in exchange for BTC, but he knows people willing to sell. Like you won't sell a million dollars worth at once but the order will probably get filled eventually. e: To be sure at some point I bet you buying volumes will drop off too much and it will effectively be frozen at some high valuation that no one really wants to pay for. Like Beanie Babies. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 00:07
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Lil Peeler posted:But at the same time if they cash that out it lowers the overall value? It sounds like penny stock speculation at this point. Is that right? Yeah. When you buy a share of Ford, at least there's something behind that actually. There's a company making cars and selling them and there's legal obligations to shareholders and you pretty literally own a small piece of that company. There's a reasoning behind why your share has value, and the share price is judged based on the actual earnings per share. Bitcoin is literally people are buying it to make money off of other people buying it and pumping the price up. It's like a ponzi scheme almost. There's nothing actually there at the end of the day and someone will get hosed at the end of the merry go round. You're not investing money into anything based on some kind of business plan or market strategy or valuation, you're just speculating on numbers moving up and down. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 04:05
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Burt Sexual posted:How can you be right on this, yet wrong on every loving thing else? 
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Nov 9, 2017 04:24
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If it was me I'd sell half and let the other half ride. If it crashes tomorrow you still made hundreds of dollars and if it doesn't you're still profiting and you're only risking unrealized gains really.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:45
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