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InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Can someone help me understand how tethers play into this whole mess? If these tethers are buying up chunks of bitcoin does that mean others are selling their bitcoins for the tether currency? Why would people do this instead of converting to USD?

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InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

So when a tether buys bitcoins, is there an actual conversion performed between tether -> fiat currency -> bitcoin, or is it really just "trust us guys, we'll trade you these 10000 tether coins that we totally have backed by real money for your bitcoins"? I guess I just don't understand why anyone would trust these tether currencies.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Pawn 17 posted:

I’m thinking the Tether scam is set up like this:

1) Print tethers
2) Trade Tether for BTC to suckers
3) Sell BTC for fiat on other exchanges or through private placement to investors, money launderers, drug lords, etc
4) Skip town with all the money
It seems so ridiculously obvious, which is why I thought I didn't understand something about the process.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Since I recently saw an email from my CIO talking about "exploring blockchain technology" I figured I'd better understand it a bit more, so I just spent far too long watching videos of smarmy nerds trying to espouse the virtues of the blockchain (they all seem to have the same talking points which is creepy and very suspect). Is there anyone in this thread that actually understands it beyond the powerpoint talking points?

My only real question is how the hell a blockchain is supposed to scale with any real world application that has large volumes? What happens when you have 100 million transactions a day? Doesn't the whole idea of a blockchain break down?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

ryde posted:

I mean, I have a passable understanding of it, but the first thing you have to answer is what you mean by blockchain technology and what features you actually want out of it.

"Blockchains" as introduced by Bitcoin are actually a bunch of different technologies and techniques smashed together to solve a very edge-casey problem. There are certain parts you can pull out that actually provide real-world value but you're probably not going to end up with a "blockchain" as understood by the larger community.
I understand blockchain to mean -- a trusted, distributed ledger. Any chance to can expand on the extra stuff that is included in the bitcoin blockchain tech?

Party Boat posted:

I just finished divabot's book (Attack of the Fifty Foot Blockchain) which in its later chapters goes into detail on blockchain as a technology and how likely it is to resolve a problem that a traditional centralised database doesn't (spoiler: not very). It also gave me a few good laughs. Plus you could class it as a business expense!
Thanks, I'll check it out.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

feelix posted:

Buying cryptocurrencies is not investing in blockchain technology holy loving poo poo
Isn't the blockchain the underlying tech behind all cryptocurrencies? If the blockchain can't scale to handle volumes you might see from a regular currency then it's ultimately going to be useless or extremely limited, isn't it?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

feelix posted:

It's the tech used to keep track of and exchange crypto. It's entirely possible for crypto to be completely worthless while blockchain is being used for every other database in the world, or for crypto to be standard currency worldwide and the only application for blockchain. The value of crypto is not tied to the value of blockchain as a technology.
Simple question - what is a crypto currency worth if the blockchain can't support the volumes necessary for "crypto to be standard currency"?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Dadbod Apocalypse posted:

The best no-poo poo explanation of blockchain is the NIST's recent Blockchain Technology Overview.

https://csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Publications/nistir/8202/draft/documents/nistir8202-draft.pdf
Thanks, going through this now. I'll stop making GBS threads up this thread with blockchain questions.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

quote:

I thrive on rational and level-headed decision-making

quote:

I lost 147k Nano ($1.4 M, and falling) in the Bitgrail hack

Is every day like this in the cryptocurrency world? It's pretty fun from the sidelines.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Fame Douglas posted:

Cash?

And that doesn't seem like a hard problem at all.
Have you actually tried to move 6 or 7 figure amounts of money in cash? Anything over 10k and you're leaving paper trails everywhere.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Fame Douglas posted:

I find it hard to believe Bitcoins has been used at large scale for this.
I can see it being used for international transfers on large scales.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

So I've been reading the original bitcoin whitepaper trying to get a better understanding of how it all works, and found this quote

quote:

A block header with no transactions would be about 80 bytes. If we suppose blocks are generated every 10 minutes, 80 bytes * 6 * 24 * 365 = 4.2MB per year.
What went wrong to result in a 150GB blockchain 10 years later?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Moridin920 posted:

With no transactions
So this isn't happening?

quote:

Old blocks can then be compacted by stubbing off branches of the tree. The interior hashes do
not need to be stored.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Adar posted:

after the wave of large banks asked Visa to reclassify crypto purchases as cash advances, Worldcom went ahead and...retroactively refunded over a million purchases from months ago, reclassified them under the new codes meaning those people became liable for 1-10% fees months after their purchases, then re-billed everyone involved except the new wave of bills got processed ahead of the refunds. oh yeah and some people got billed 50 times.
As someone who works with large billing systems for a living I have a hard time believing this explanation.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9kQZ5EJakM

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

I wasn't going to bring blockchain up again, but since you guys are talking about it I have a question I can't find an answer to. If you use a blockchain for supply chain control or contract management (as are often cited as a prime target for converting to blockchains) who are the miners in this system and how do you protect against a 51% attack on the chain?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

zedprime posted:

It's probably just a single blade of a cloud server that the syndicate agrees to use. No real reason to distribute beyond the end users at which point the maximum outlay is probably one blade ponied up per interested party.

It's a trusted system so you don't need proof of work and the transparency is from the validation available from merkle chains and source that is probably available for participants to inspect.
This seems like a great fit with the features of blockchain!


Uranium 235 posted:

i have no idea if this project is any good but they're trying to use blockchain for supply chain control https://shipchain.io/

whitepaper here, doesn't seem like it goes very in-depth though https://shipchain.io/shipchain-whitepaper.pdf
Thanks for the link. Sadly that is not a very detailed document.

Also, I find it amusing that they have a guy on their executive with the last name Crook.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

quote:

I was hacked today on Coinbase, does anyone have any possible ideas how this occurred?
...
I'm not computer illiterate by any means. I'm in school for Computer Engineering and have a Software Engineering Internship. I don't EVER download things from websites, and cannot remember anything that I'd done that would've caused this.
...
He somehow got access to both my email and coinbase account, which was mostly my fault for using the same password and email for both accounts.
...
called my mom for emotional support
It's a mystery

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

I'm going to start my own cryptocurrency where there will only be one coin ever. The ultimate scarcity!

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Waltzing Along posted:

Someone mentioned tax on another page and what I'd love to see is the IRS tax all gains on crypto. Require the exchanges to report them. It would be very funny.
Tax it as lottery winnings to make it extra fun.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

I have another technical question about how bitcoin works. Apologies for asking this.

Suppose I bought a bitcoin in 2009. This means somewhere very early in the blockchain will be some record of my private wallet xyz getting 1 BTC transferred to it from the wallet I bought the coin from, correct? Since then there's been more than 100GB of transactions added to the blockchain. Suppose I now go to spend that BTC, so another transaction is generated "wallet xyz transfers 1 BTC to some other wallet". How does the verification that my wallet actually has 1 BTC occur? Do the miners have to trawl through 100+GB of transactions until they find my old transaction from 2009? Is there a data structure to the blockchain that helps this? Indexes?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

klafbang posted:

You do not have a wallet containing bitcoins. You have a wallet which contains an index of unpent transactions.

So the butts you receive in 2009 are listed as an unspent transaction with a particular transaction id, say A transfers 1 butt to B with id1. In 2018 you then decide to spend half of that butt. You then make a new transaction stating that id2: "From id1, B sends 1/2 butt to C and B sends 1/2 butt to B." This marks the original transaction as spent and replaces it by one new transaction. C can now create a transaction stating id3: "From id2, C sends 1/4 butt to D, C sends 1/4 butt to C" to spend one-quarter of a butt. If A makes a transaction id4: "From id2, A sends 1/4 butt to D, A sends 1/4 butt to A," D can now spend half a butt at E by id5: "From id3, D sends 1/4 butt to E, from id4, D sends 1/4 butt to E."

You do in principle have to scan the entire blockchain each time, but you can do a couple of tricks. Your wallet keeps track of all "your" transactions and presents them as a balance. You can in principle have multiple butt-addresses in your wallet (that's in fact recommended by some butters), and it will abstract all of this away. That way, it does not have to scan the entire blockchain each time.

A miner can build an index of all unspent transactions so it doesn't have to scan the entire blockchain each time, or they can batch transactions and just scan the blockchain once for all approximately 2500 transactions that fit in a bitcoin block.

This is all a bit simplified; there's not really a notion of senders and recipients in transactions, but rather challenges and responses (bitcoin essentially has smart contracts). Also, you don't just refer to transactions, but really to outputs of transactions. We already saw that transactions id2 and id3 sent butts to multiple recipients. Each recipient is an output and can be spent independently. You also really pool all the butts in all the outputs you spend (transaction inputs) and can send that to any number of outputs; typically you would not spend everything, which is left open for the miner to claim as mining fee for the hassle of checking your transaction.
Ok, thanks for the response. The whole thing sounds like an insane solution for any type of currency that is expected to be used wide-scale.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Better sell off folks

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/80ow6w/im_bill_gates_cochair_of_the_bill_melinda_gates/

quote:

[–]thisisbillgates
[S] 687 points 27 minutes ago
The main feature of crypto currencies is their anonymity. I don't think this is a good thing. The Governments ability to find money laundering and tax evasion and terrorist funding is a good thing. Right now crypto currencies are used for buying fentanyl and other drugs so it is a rare technology that has caused deaths in a fairly direct way. I think the speculative wave around ICOs and crypto currencies is super risky for those who go long.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Dadbod Apocalypse posted:

I skimmed a bit about GDPR and blockchain and...it doesn't look good. Smarter people than me are working this I suppose, but it looks like data portability issues are the real sticking point. How do you transfer/remove your data from an immutable blockchain? Removal can be as simple as destruction of one's personal encryption key, but when it comes to transfer, several of the proposed solutions involve some form of blockchain editing. It gets really complicated, but it involves a trusted third party in almost all instances. You can see how this is antithetical to the whole point of blockchain which is that it's a trustless, decentralized ledger.
I am still unaware of a single instance where a blockchain offers a better solution over whatever is currently being used to solve a problem, so I'm happy the GDPR is causing such issues in the "blockchain community". Hopefully this is a nail that shuts the coffin on this 30 year old technology.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

https://www.howeycoins.com/index.html

Check out what happens when you try to buy the coins haha.

What a sad state of affairs that this picture should have been a dead giveaway, but actually isn't

Only registered members can see post attachments!

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

quote:

It was a stunt designed to play on one of cryptocurrencies most resilient memes: "to the moon" -- the idea that prices will skyrocket, leaving currency holders rich in the process. But it was a stunt that left one Sherpa presumed dead on Mount Everest.
https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Man-dies-Mount-Everest-ASKfm-sherpa-cryptocurrency-12967630.php

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Has this been posted yet?

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/9fcxk0/please_learn_from_my_mistakeshow_ive_financially/

Please learn from my mistake(s)...how I've financially ruined everything in less than 12 months

quote:

So here we go -

Long story short, I got screwed in the 2017/2018 Cryptocurrency bubble,

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Last time I was in this thread more than a year ago tether coins were all the rage and millions in "very real" currency was being injected into them to prop up bitcoin prices. Is that still a thing? Did a huge crash happy when people realised it's just some dude saying "I totally have 300 million in the bank, trust me"

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

I have a nature photography side business. Have I missed the NFT boat or can I still swindle some poor saps by (if I'm understanding this correctly) selling links to my digital file for huge sums of money.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Its Happening! posted:

Your photos may already have been transacted as NFT's, so be sure say thanks if you ever catch whoever sold them.

Can I sell a link to this thread?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

starkebn posted:

what is supposed to be the benefit of bitcoins?
Let's see you buy a sex slave using those big bank networks.

checkmate

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Somfin posted:

Just to put it simply here, if I have a few shares and I expect their value to go up, holding on to those shares and then selling them after the value goes up puts more money in my pocket than selling them now, buying fewer shares with the money I keep after selling it, and then selling those shares at the higher value.

If I have some shares and I expect their value to go down, selling now puts more money in my pocket than holding on to them.

You seem to believe that they think the value will go up, but their actions suggest that they think that the value will go down- and because of the self-reflective nature of the stock market, their actions have made it far, far more likely that they are right. You seem to think it will still go up. What do you think makes a stock's value go up, and how does that apply to this situation?
Alternate theory -- they wanted to buy more bitcoins but you cannot buy bitcoins with shares, so they were forced to sell all their shares to buy more bitcoins. We should all liquidate our valuable assets and stocks to do the same.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Most artists are not making money off NFTs and here are some graphs to prove it
https://thatkimparker.medium.com/most-artists-are-not-making-money-off-nfts-and-here-are-some-graphs-to-prove-it-c65718d4a1b8

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

spunkshui posted:

The current market cap of tether is 50 billion, it was 5 billion 1 year ago.


Who are the people behind tether and how has it survived so long when it's an obvious scam? For it to be what it claims to be, doesn't this imply that 50 billion USD from *someone* is just put into a bank account doing nothing? Also, since this is propping up bitcoin how does this not make bitcoin a fiat currency in some form?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

I still want to know where the money is coming from that is supposedly backing tether. Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle, but if there's 50 billion in tether then shouldn't there be 50 billion sitting in a bank account somewhere earning .001% interest? Seems like a good use for that money.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Andy Dufresne posted:

No, scroll up. Most of it is dollars owed to tether by crypto-adjacent companies they loaned tether to.

The dollars didn't exist in the first place, but they theoretically will if everyone tether loaned out is paid back
Sorry, I know I'm being dense but the whole thing makes even less sense to me now.

Company ABC gets a billion tether issued to them and in return they give Tether a sticky note that says "We owe you a billion dollars". Why would ABC ever do this? The official line is "Tether is used by crypto investors who want to avoid the extreme volatility of other cryptocurrencies while keeping value within the crypto market." So company ABC just put a billion dollar liability on their books for what exactly? There's no expected return since crypto is aligned to the USD.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Blotto_Otter posted:

ABC does this because ABC is generally an exchange that has banking problems and needs a USD lookalike to provide liquidity where there would otherwise be none. Taking a loan in USDT comes at no cost (and actually has potential benefits, since they can then use their USDT pile to buy cryptos off their customers) since the billion dollar liability they put on their books is offset by a "billion dollars" in assets that are the USDTs they just took. From an accounting perspective, taking that loan of USDT has no impact on income (at the time of initial loan, at least).

Ok, so I think the picture is a little clearer for me, but who are the people exchanging bitcoins for tether with ABC? When I look up info on tether I find the following statement: "Tethers cannot be exchanged for U.S. dollars." So if I have a bitcoin, why would I exchange it for tether? Just to make it easier to buy other cryptocurrencies?

The whole thing just feels so off. Like it's such an obvious scam I must not be understanding it correctly.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Gosh, has it been five minutes already?

Sorry if I'm making GBS threads up the thread with these questions, but this is literally the only place on the internet I've found where I can actually get real answers without running into the true believers. My sister has recently gone off the deep end into crypto and I need to arm myself for the arguments that will soon follow as she gambles her entire family's life savings away. If I've learned anything from reading about this on the internet it's that the moment you can't answer one of their questions or you give a wrong answer your entire point is invalidated.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Blotto_Otter posted:

Between arguing with cryptocurrency zealots for years and now antivaxxers for the last half-year, it's been my experience that it doesn't matter how well-researched you are and how thoughtfully you engage with someone on a topic if they are engaging with that topic in bad faith. If someone's decided that this is the way they're going to get rich quick, you making Good Counterargument #38 isn't going to matter if the first 37 arguments didn't matter. Rational arguments don't matter when someone is making an irrational decision based on greed and emotion. (What you can try to do is stop her from persuading others around you to follow her down the same dumb path.)
I know that's what's in store for me once I start to argue with her about it, and I know I won't be changing her mind, but even if there's a fractional chance I could convince her I'd like to make sure I give it my best shot. The problem is that somehow she fell in with the personalfinance crowd on reddit and she made a bunch of money on GME, so now those reddit people "really know what they are talking about".

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InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Actual question: are NFTs completely dead now or is there still money to be made? I sell my photography (as in actual prints) and would be happy to take some money from people who see value in them. All I have to do is host the photo and sell the link as an NFT somehow, right?

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