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jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

divabot posted:

it's pretty simple and retrospectively obvious.

electricity/hardware/building/etc costs will always approximate what the miner can sell the resulting BTC for - because the whole history of economics shows people spending up to $99.99 to make $100, and if they spend $101 to make $100 too much they go broke.

the miner is paid in block reward and and transaction fees.

this money is not imaginary dollars, it's real dollars (or yuan), paid for the electricity/etc and coming from people buying the BTC.

the entire thing has a net negative expected return across all participants. this is one of the key objections in jstolfi's famed SEC response, btw, as to why a Bitcoin ETF is a poo poo idea.

now if bitcoin actually had an economy, you could say "well economic value is generated at these flows of coins for services etc" and that'd be one thing. but bitcoin doesn't have an economy, except a few drug dealers. so all that's left is a complicated scheme to funnel money from suckers to new miners and old hodlers, with scammers taking a cut along the way.

it is hypothetically possible that some time in the astounding future!! there will be something that could be called a cryptocurrency economy. there has been no sign of it in the past eight years, and many reasons to think it's not a happener. but sure, it's not philosophically impossible,,

You're a good poster and I like the way you post.

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jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Here's my dumb bitcoin story which is more just a rambling humble brag while I procrastinate clearing the driveway of snow.

So I'm a manchild of unfinished projects. I've sold 2 unfinished racecars at large losses. Currently have an unfinished renovation in my main house, and fancy myself a property investor because I have multiple houses, yet have no tenant in the second house which I pay a second mortgage on. I have heavy equipment disassembled in storage not making money. I recently decided I wanted to play video games (VR Racing sims actually, to keep my reflexes and muscle memory sharp for my unfinished offroad endurance racing hobby that I haven't followed through with). I've followed bitcoin drama since I first heard of it some 5 or 6 years ago. Since I have an unused gaming rig collecting dust, I decided to start mining with nicehash. Why ? Well for starters, I'd like to learn a new hobby. Secondly I'd like to start consolidating unattended hobbies into a few attended hobbies. And C, I've been looking at the bigger picture of mining rigs and their wasted heat output. I spend a lot of money on heat. It's currently -17 and I probably pay around $500 per month in the winter on energy costs not including fuel.

Ok so this wasted heat. Can I think of this dumb gaming machine as essentially a 300 watt electric heater that also has an ability to break even on profits at a minimum short term, and also have a slim chance of speculative gains in the future ? Seems like I might be able to.

Possible heat uses:

-Keep my detached workshop warm. Workshop is around 600 square feet and insulated. I don't need to keep it warm, just above freezing so my chemicals and batteries don't slush up.
Should break even on this as I currently use a small space heater.

-Keep pickup warm inside. When I get called to the work yard in the winter it takes drat near the entire commute before the cab inside my pickup is warm. I run an extension cord to the block heater already. I could easily tie it into the rig and just have it run in the pickup.

-Keep Work truck warm. Now this gets a little bit more profitable. I don't pay for fuel. The truck runs 16 hours a day. It also stays plugged in when not being used. And as a bonus, I have a 2000 watt professional grade inverter wired into the battery bank. A 300 watt draw on a 450 kilowatt turbo diesel is gently caress all. I go through 70 gallons of fuel a day. I am not sure on bandwidth required though. My cell plan has 6gb per month of data and the mining rig wouldn't have internet access while im away from the work yard.

From my lovely truck driver understanding of economics, the major coins like bitcoin, ethereum and even monero are next to impossible to break even at a hobbyist level. Nicehash mines altcoins and works for the most profitable ones. It then pays out in bitcoin which isn't exactly stable but atleast I can turn it into real money without too much trouble. Since this is nothing more than a dumb hobby, I feel like high risk is a more interesting way to waste time and money. So what I plan on doing is trading bitcoin for low value coins that seem to have some reason behind them. Currently the only one I've been able to find is SIAcoin, which has a real service behind it. Distributed low latency storage hosting. Do I believe in the product ? gently caress no, but it's the least worst speculative option in my opinion. At the moment I'm mining for nicehash at about 30%, and mining directly for SIAcoin with the remaining 70%.

At current market, I'm offsetting my power bill by about $70 per month. However since I plan on dumping everything into high risk "penny stock" equivalents, I'm probably making 0 dollars, but creating heat with a $1500 space heater.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

divabot posted:

:preen:

after all I literally wrote a book about this poo poo intended for normal humans to be able to understand. it's still too technical (both in computers and economics), but hopefully the funny scammer stories got the point across

Do you have a link to the book ? Maybe I can use this mining rig to download the book. An actual useful venture.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I want to short bitcoin. It was 10,400 in cad bucks last night. I watched that movie where autist Christian Bale phones some companies and they're like "Nobody bets against realestate!" And then he made a bunch of money while air drumming to Creeping Death.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I was listening to Joe Rogan podcast from a few weeks back. He had Peter Schiff (of Schiff Gold) on as a guest and while his push for libertarianism is a little hard for my tastes, he made some good points about some company he is hocking.

goldmoney.com seems to be pretty neat. The money you put into it is used to buy and store actual gold secured by brinks security. You can have the gold stored, or shipped to you, and you can transfer the ownership of that gold to others as a form of Visa backed payment using a debit card. He says that he doesn't have faith in paper money lasting forever, but cryptocurrency isn't the answer. Going back to gold could be a very safe bet especially if more people start using it for currency again.


His explanation for bitcoin and Ether was pretty good. He basically said that they're very bad investments that some people will make a lot of money on as long as there are bigger fools than those people making worse decisions.

jonathan fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Nov 24, 2017

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
These are all good points. He also says everyone should move to costa rica.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

1st_Panzer_Div. posted:



DO NOT BUY LITERAL PHYSICAL GOLD WHAT IN THE gently caress IS WRONG WITH YOU IF YOU'RE EVEN CONSIDERING BUYING INTO GOLD BARS. THIS WILL NEVER EVER PAY OFF, PLEASE TALK TO SOME PROFESSIONALS ABOUT YOUR MONEY BECAUSE YOU'RE STUPID ENOUGH TO BE CONSIDERING BUYING LITERAL GOLD BARS. No idea how you have money to invest if you're that bad with money to begin with

My thoughts are that gold is still gold. It's fairly rare and will always be valuable as it has uses in jewelry and industry/electronics. It's not an investment but more of a failsafe. Maybe I'm an idiot and just don't know economics that we'll, but I do have a lot of money I'd like to keep. If you Americans gently caress your dollar up, my Canadian monopoly money is chasing it down the hole.

Edit: I got triggered because you don't need to be an investor to have money. Some of us earn it with hard work and lucky career choices.

jonathan fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Nov 26, 2017

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

1st_Panzer_Div. posted:

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. You can have money for a lot of reasons. But anyone looking at gold and bitcoins as investments should not be investing. Gold has no value. None. Jewelry/electronics/etc is just man putting value into it. The value in electronics is crazy small to the prices it trades at.

Not offended and I probably deserve to be called out. But I wasn't actually saying buy gold. I more said "hey this guy smarter than me says to buy gold. It sounds like an idea. What's up with that ?"

I've been doing the crypto thing for a couple weeks now, for fun. It's like those websites that let you day trade with fake money and tell you what you would have gained or lost. Anyways, I have 500 siacoins now, and about $13 btc from using nicehash. I think I'll cash that out and buy ethereum or maybe I'll just cash out and pay my electricity bill.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Saw a YouTube commercial for some altcoin with all these montages of helicopters dropping mining farms contained in shipping containers at the end of a runway with a satellite uplink. Then the gensets fire up and burn off a bunch of blue smoke. What in the actual gently caress why would someone want a portable self contained mining farm delivered by helicopter ?

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I took a look at r/bitcoin

That place is like that "smartest guys in the room" doc about Enron.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Someone should prebuild a thread documenting the nerdrage when this thing crashes hard.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Pretty sure the NSA could backdoor every mining rig out there and redirect efforts to their own wallet while echoing the original wallet name on the mining terminal output. They'd make like $500 in a day and destabilise the entire community.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Professor of Cats posted:

Agreed. But then again, here I am with no bitcoin while I know a couple people IRL laughing all the way to the bank. So what the gently caress do I know.

[posts in on this forum]

Laughing all the way to the bank every day for weeks in end while the price falls.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

exploded mummy posted:

its seraph so it's either kiddie porn or star citizen

For a moment I thought I was in that GBS Star citizen thread that I was reading yesterday. It's amazing how the bitcoin thread and the star citizen thread are 100% indistinguishable without context.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

AARO posted:

Stay poor nocoiners.

LoL if your skillset is so abismal that you need to gamble to make a living.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I mined for about 10 days though nicehash earning rough $45 in btc. I probably spent $12 in power. I transferred that to coinbase for no reason. Then my power supply blew up, costing me $90 to replace.

So basically it cost me $102 to generate 45 in magic bucks that still isn't technically in my pocket.

They should try making a currency that is useful for something. Imagine if!

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Friend of mine may have been a codeveloper of bitcoin or maybe satoshi himself. He had the earliest bitcoins but he killed himself a few years ago over drama with a crazy girlfriend. Not even joking a little bit. He had the bitcoins before they were even publicly available.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Inept posted:

are you sure that he wasn't just telling you made up poo poo because he was crazy and killed himself

I highly doubt he was satoshi and never claimed that. But the timeline of when he was talking about the project jives with my theory that he helped or contributed to the original design. When they started to become accepted for buying drugs he pretty much considered the project a success.

But then his crazy girlfriend wanted to get them both thrown in jail so he killed himself via overdose.

His name was Dennis Moran.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

That's him but holy poo poo did you read that second link ?

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

zaurg posted:

Crazy! Remember chatting with him 20 years ago.

Yeah he was part of efnet #quake in the mid 90's and we all played quake.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
For all the effort getting the bitcoins, one could further their job skillset and gain financially and grow as a human.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I've started trading in video cards. I've gained about $800 in the last 6 hours not including initial investment last winter. My plan is to keep an inventory of 2 used 1080 ti's in SLI in my sim racing box, and I'll sell one each time I can make a decent profit. Worst case scenario is I'm stuck with 1080ti SLI.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
In regards to some legal talk a few posts back:

I worked for a domain registrar about 12 years ago. There was a glaring security flaw that could allow a person to have a domain switched over to their ownership by forging a notary form which was easy as anything.

I asked how this is allowed under company policy and the explanation was that under law, our policies and contracts only have to protect our customers from legal acts. Forging a notary form is illegal and as such we don't have to protect ourselves from it.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
It's $30 to unban someone after a toxx clause ?

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Pochoclo posted:

Money is no joke addictive and the more you have, the more you want. Most people will adapt their lifestyles to the amount of money they have - so you get people making several million a year complaining that it's not enough because they manage to spend it all somehow.

"If I had x amount then I surely would never want for money again!" is a big fat lie - try being a zen monk instead

This. It's amazing how much you can blow through without even feeling like you're doing anything but getting by. 1.7mil would have me buying some extra equipment for work, take on another employee and I guess pay off my mortgage.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I wanted to ask her how large her clitoris was from the Test to get those shoulders but then someone claimed the photo was stolen from a dating website.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Seraph8t4 posted:

Despicable slander.

1. I'm not sure where the sex offender thing came from but I'm pretty sure my fiance's police officer father would take issue with that, were it true.
2. I have ten trezors with exactly 21 btc on each plus an additional 1.5 btc on coinbase. I can sign/verify an address for you if you don't believe me.

But how large is your clitoris, and do you have an adam's apple forming, or any change in voice ?

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Seraph8t4 posted:

It's this big, and it's delicious.


Also I hope you get probed for that transphobia.

Posting a picture of male steroid enhancement on a female and then being asked about the side effects has nothing to do with trans anything.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Can I buy some 1080 TI's yet ?

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Congrats all! Bedtime for me now. And in the GPU thread someone posted a Craigslist and of an entire mining farm up for sale.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Manchild King posted:



*additional edit* I hope nobody wants bitcoiners to actually kill themselves. But I agree some sort of misfortune has to come their way.

I dunno, I watched a baby dear shutting down from hypothermia this morning while drinking a coffee. It was curled up on the side of the road in -30 weather and didn't care about the traffic anymore. Then I got bored and checked to see if bitcoin had crashed more. I could easily replace that deer with a bitcoiner in my mind.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Folding@home launches tokens for work done. Tokens are used for discounts at major merchants like Amazon, Google shop, Microsoft store etc. The value of the tokens can vary based on the merchants charitable mood. The tokens are certifiable via blockchain overhead within the folding@home algorithm umbrella and is built to be low overhead and only to efficiently verify that tokens are not fake. This could also be done by a central database but I don't know who would step up to the plate to manage the tokens. Maybe it would be easy ?

Just some random pre coffee thoughts while laying down bacon strips on the oven pan.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Risc1911 posted:

So it's all fantasy. You don't even know if the exchange has a wallet with the crypto they "sell" you. LMFAO, and people think any of these are legit?

That's why he cashes out quickly. He probably loses more with transfer fees but doesn't have to worry about an exchange hack (as much). His strategy is sound in that he's reducing as much risk as possible. It's like if you're diving in the municipal waste water runout with a metal detector. You might find a few Costco diamond rings, he's just self dosing on mexican black market cholera vaccines hoping it works.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Pretty sure uranium isn't the guy to be jumping on. He's admitted to not believing in bitcoin's future and has been doing short term trading. He's just applied some higher-than-lowest-denominator Reddit logic to trading and risk management. Kinda feel he's being dogpiled on when he's one of the more rational posters in this thread. Second only to the butt guy.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Someone mentioned gridcoin/GRC earlier. Seems to be folding@home + rewards. I'd kinda like to try it for fun. Has there been any crazy drama, scams etc by the people who run it that should make me want to stay away ?

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Curious about Minimalist's rear end. Specifically, is it or has it ever been infected with a worm virus ?

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
I've been touching the poo a little bit. Just the tip. I'm using my 1080 ti to mine nicehash and buying newegg gift cards at a 2.5% exchange rate. I haven't seen a change in my energy bills because the computer seems to just be heating the basement so that the furnace doesn't have to work as hard.

I read something that the more casuals that mine, the less profits there are for dedicated miners (because of difficulty). While I'm only making around $120 a month after exchange, it feels good knowing that it's $120 out of the pockets of people who probably need it. Meanwhile I'll just spend it on stupid RGB lighting so I can have a gay disco.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Oh one other thing about bitcoins straight to gift cards is I'm turning these dumb bucks into material goods without having any of these amateur hour exchanges interacting with my bank.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Jimmy Hats posted:

Isnt mining all the time gonna run your computer components into the dumpster??

Nah, other than maybe fan/cooler bearings. My gpu never gets above 70c, and the cpu is basically idling. Luckily with the payouts I can just buy an AIO cooler for the gpu if the air cooler ever dies. Or I'll get bored in a couple weeks and lose interest.

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jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
That dude being condescending and then getting hacked. That's really good. Really good.

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