[Asia/Oceania] Forget About Chips - China Is Coming for Ships

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Forget About Chips - China Is Coming for Ships

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1168000171122118657

lol

SKULL.GIF posted:

we really gonna let this slide?

nope

# ? Sep 18, 2019 13:24

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 08:24

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

GreyjoyBastard posted:

oh so you just generally want to balkanize successful leftist states like China and the United Kingdom and render them easy pickings for international capital

lmao the UK, why is it in that sentence?

Also not surprising to see the brits at it itt

# ? Sep 18, 2019 14:19

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

do british goons generally consider brexit to be leftist legislation i stopped reading the cspam brit thread after the tories chickened out of the last deadline but that seems like the kind of assertion most britgoons would strongly disagree with

# ? Sep 18, 2019 15:43

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

Some Guy TT posted:

do british goons generally consider brexit to be leftist legislation

No, not even slightly. Some communist microsects consider it beneficial in the sense that a lot of socialist policies are incompatible with EU membership but they're tiny and invisible.

The public movement in support of it is all fascism all the time.

# ? Sep 18, 2019 16:07

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

This, also calling the UK a successful leftist state when it's been governed by austerity addicts for almost a decade is like saying the PRC is a stronghold of libertarianism.

# ? Sep 18, 2019 16:15

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

Also it's a monarchy

# ? Sep 18, 2019 16:17

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

any theoretical value to socialists for leaving the EU is overshadowed by the fact that the people in charge of the UK at the moment are fascists and there is no way that a Brexit on their terms is going to be beneficial for the country

# ? Sep 18, 2019 16:20

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

the tiny communist sects in question think they're going to raise a red army when the inevitable economic depression hits it's peak

i mean it's a nice thought but there's no way in hell they wouldn't get murdered on their first day leafleting by a roving gang of brexitists when the papers blame "lefties"/muslims/remainers for the collapse

# ? Sep 18, 2019 16:24

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Brexit is foolish almost as foolish as thoughts of scottish independence

# ? Sep 18, 2019 16:26

tino: Jun 4, 2018; by Smythe

Looking forward to the new British flag with a red cross and a dragon. Zombie Thatcher should be happy to know her 40-year plan has finally come to fruition.

# ? Sep 18, 2019 17:16

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1168000171122118657

griftin makes me feel good

# ? Sep 18, 2019 17:55

Norton the First: Dec 4, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

The poster calling the UK a successful leftist state was clearly taking an ironic dig at China, guys. It wasn't subtle.

# ? Sep 18, 2019 17:56

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

Red Cross, dragon, and- orchid!

# ? Sep 18, 2019 19:47

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

HorseLord posted:

the tiny communist sects in question think they're going to raise a red army when the inevitable economic depression hits it's peak

i mean it's a nice thought but there's no way in hell they wouldn't get murdered on their first day leafleting by a roving gang of brexitists when the papers blame "lefties"/muslims/remainers for the collapse

by that logic Czarist Russia was a leftist state, lol

# ? Sep 18, 2019 20:55

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Kassad posted:

This, also calling the UK a successful leftist state when it's been governed by austerity addicts for almost a decade is like saying the PRC is a stronghold of libertarianism.

it's almost like I was doing a funnyman

edit I know one (1) lefty person who is/was both English and pro Brexit, on the theory that the destruction of the EU would let it be replaced by something better

I'm not sure she still holds that opinion now that the Brexit saga has led to the EU being more cohesive rather than less ("see what's happening to the Brits? do you want that to be you?")

Goatse James Bond has issued a correction as of 22:28 on Sep 18, 2019

# ? Sep 18, 2019 22:24

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

it's almost like I was doing a funnyman

edit I know one (1) lefty person who is/was both English and pro Brexit, on the theory that the destruction of the EU would let it be replaced by something better

I'm not sure she still holds that opinion now that the Brexit saga has led to the EU being more cohesive rather than less ("see what's happening to the Brits? do you want that to be you?")

I can only accept that I have no sense of humor :cripes:

As for the EU: they've just appointed a commissioner for "Protecting our European Way of Life" (read: keep African migrants out) so it's definitely still possible for a left-wing person to feel the EU is poo poo

# ? Sep 18, 2019 22:48

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Kassad posted:

I can only accept that I have no sense of humor

As for the EU: they've just appointed a commissioner for "Protecting our European Way of Life" (read: keep African migrants out) so it's definitely still possible for a left-wing person to feel the EU is poo poo

a left-wing person should feel the eu is poo poo from its very nature which is first and foremost to protest european capitalism. the who system exists to protect european interests.

# ? Sep 19, 2019 05:56

Kill All Cops: Apr 11, 2007; Pacheco de Chocobo; Hell Gem

Article on Lausan about the migrant workers such as domestic helpers https://lausan.hk/2019/hong-kongs-protest-movement-must-stop-ignoring-migrant-workers/

quote:

On 5 August, over 350,000 workers took part in Hong Kong�s first general strike in generations. Flights were cancelled en masse and the city�s transportation system was thrown into chaos. The strike was the culmination of weeks of protests against proposed amendments to Hong Kong�s extradition laws, which would grant the chief executive unprecedented power to dictate extradition decisions and bypass the legislative council. It was an impressive display of solidarity between workers and students, and an important step forward in the city�s recent string of mass mobilisations. However, unusually for a general strike, there were no explicit demands around labour conditions. The drive for autonomy from China has mobilised millions of people on the street but, as the strike revealed, there are avenues for solidarity which the movement is overlooking.

Migrant domestic workers from Southeast Asia occupy a unique, but rather neglected, position in the city�s current struggle. Almost 400,000 migrant workers (more than the size of the general strike), mostly from the Philippines and Indonesia, work for extremely low wages in Hong Kong. Most come to the city to seek better jobs, but almost 80% are in debt and beholden to the exploitative practices of recruitment agencies. According to a recent report, migrant workers contribute more than $12 million to Hong Kong�s economy.

Many of these workers are supportive of the protests, and migrant unions, some of which are affiliated with the pro-democracy Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions (HKCTU), have strongly encouraged their members to get out on the streets. But various pressures limit their participation and protest demands have not directly addressed their material concerns. Some are compelled not to participate in fear of their work visas being revoked; the Philippines consulate has sent out notices discouraging migrant workers from participating in the protests. Clarisse*, a Filipino migrant worker, says that many employers disapprove of their participation in the protests, and some have even prevented them from taking their legally mandated rest day. In addition, she points out that the areas where migrants usually congregate have become key sites for clashes between the police and the protestors.

Fake government notices, and even death threats, have been anonymously circulating in migrant workers� social media platforms like WeChat and Whatsapp, according to Fish Ip, the regional coordinator for International Domestic Workers Federation (IDWF). One message specifically threatened to attack Nepalis, Indians, and Pakistanis if they participate in the protests, many of whom are not even domestic workers, showing how different racial minorities in Hong Kong are conflated and targeted. Reports of the Hong Kong police harassing and arresting a Filipino dancer on the eve of the general strike further exacerbated these fears. Other threats were framed as retaliatory stemming from rumours that some ethnic minorities were involved in the attacks on protestors in Yuen Long.

Widespread indifference to migrants

Hong Kong is still considered a better place to work and organise than other major hubs for migrant workers like Dubai, despite lacking many basic employment rights. Hope*, a Filipino who has worked in Hong Kong since 1996, fears that the extradition bill would open the way for policies that would further affect both migrants and locals alike. Above all, she worries that the right to unionise and freedom of assembly would be jeopardised. Hope was told by the Philippines consulate that the demonstrations are not a concern for domestic workers. But Clarisse rejects this stance, �We are living and working in Hong Kong, this is our second home and whatever happens we will be affected.�

There is widespread indifference to the plight of migrant workers in Hong Kong, their voices have largely been ignored by both the pro-Democracy movement and the government. In spite of this, interviews with migrant workers demonstrate the complex ways in which migrants do see Hong Kong as a home away from home. And a recent report shows that migrant domestic workers enable more East Asian women (especially mothers) to participate in the workforce. In other words, migrants, despite their limited participation, already play a central role in the demonstrations: their work enables more families to be involved.

While the protests have afforded an opportunity for the general populace to renegotiate their understanding of the city�s structural issues, migrant workers rights have remained a blindspot. For example, the increasing distrust of policing is a new and critical step toward radicalisation. But the silence towards migrant workers� conditions reveals a persistent weakness in the protestors� demands: the inability to recognise that Hong Kong�s woes are deeply tied to a globalised economy of exploitation, and the structural effects of colonisation in new forms.

Sring Atin, a domestic worker and member of the Indonesian Migrant Workers Alliance (IMWA) who is generally supportive of the protests, says that the movement�s demands do not concretely address migrants� issues. The fight against the new extradition policies, which she sees as the prime focus of the mobilisations, must �bring in workers� demands to ensure quality and decent working conditions for the most marginalised communities.�

The myopia around this issue reveals the exclusionary, xenophobic sentiments that are often constitutive of localist ideologies. A sense of ethnonationalism tied to �Hong Kong identity� has been inseparable from many localist groups such as Hong Kong Indigenous, who promote blatantly uncritical xenophobia against the Mainland Chinese as a whole. This exclusionary sentiment manifests more subtly and variously when it comes to migrant workers, whose issues are seen as auxiliary to Hong Kong�s struggles.

Class and race: the movement�s blind spots?

Hong Kong is wedged between a geopolitical struggle between China and the US. Wilfred Chan asks in Dissent what it would mean for the city to �reimagine an anti-capitalist, anti-authoritarian politics of survival from the perspective of this in-between place�? The answer lies in the city�s working-class movements and will require imagining new coalitions. The potential for a transnational anti-capitalist politics is already here, in a city where migrants and locals rub shoulders on every other block contesting Hong Kong�s identity as a global financial hub.

However, ethnic divisions in the protest movement prevent a deeper understanding of the colonial heritage of the city�s labour economy and institutional structures. It is Southeast Asian women domestic laborers who bear many of the effects of Hong Kong�s incomplete process of decolonisation. The city has a long history of gender-specific exploitative labour practices: for example, during the colonial period, affluent families often relied on �mui tsai�s, unpaid or underpaid Chinese female domestic labourers.

Today, diasporic Southeast Asian women, pushed out of their countries because of factors like gender and economic inequality in their home countries, continue to do essential care work. Migration scholar Rhacel Parre�as describes this as the �international division of reproductive labour.� She writes in her book Servants of Globalization:

�In both sending and receiving countries, most women have not achieved a gender-egalitarian division of household work; instead, they have used their race and/or class privilege to transfer their reproductive labor with responsibilities to less privileged women.�

Despite the fact that migrants and transnational networks have shaped the city�s cultural identity, an uncritical and exclusionary idea of belonging continues to reinforce racial divides. A radical movement that truly can challenge the city�s deep injustices must go beyond demands for universal suffrage, and build links between different marginalised groups.

To highlight migrant workers� demands would not be a distraction from Chinese authoritarianism. On the contrary, it forces us to look at labour in all its complex dynamics�both within and beyond post-colonial Hong Kong. Why are wages so low for Southeast Asian women workers in Hong Kong, and even lower in their home countries? How are the governments of Hong Kong and China complicit or actively facilitating this network of oppression? How accessible are the protests to marginalised identities? These are the questions that the protestors must reckon with if they want liberation and democracy for all of Hong Kong.

Migrant unions and organisations have played an important in foregrounding these issues. But while they have had victories throughout the years, they have not been able to mobilise a mass movement in solidarity against neoliberal globalisation. Their demands to make the current protests more inclusive poses a challenge to the movement. As a recent petition by self-organised housewives in support of the protests suggests, domestic care labour is not only legitimate work, but the kind that establishes the conditions for widespread struggle.

Who is included in the 自己 (�myself�) of the protestors� chant: 自己香港自己救 (�We alone will save our own Hong Kong�)? What happens to our activism and analysis when some of the 自己 include diasporic identities that are as local as they are transnational? These questions are not merely academic and speculative: they determine the concrete limits of Hong Kong�s struggle for liberation.

Combatting all kinds of oppression in Hong Kong under Chinese authoritarian capitalism must entail unpacking Han chauvinism, Hong Kong ethnonationalism, and other exclusionary ideologies. And to combat China�s colonial ambitions, we must look inward: freedom lies not only in the vanguard in the black masks, but also in the many who are absent from the front lines. We need to rethink who is included in the local, and how the local is tied to the transnational. For Hong Kong, a critical link to the global, grassroots fight against capital, are its migrant workers.

Kill All Cops has issued a correction as of 06:27 on Sep 19, 2019

# ? Sep 19, 2019 06:24

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

https://twitter.com/wilfredchan/status/1174349238270083073

# ? Sep 19, 2019 06:39

Rabelais D: Dec 11, 2012; ts'u nnu k'u k'o t'khye:
A demon doth defecate at thy door

Lady Galaga posted:

Article on Lausan about the migrant workers such as domestic helpers https://lausan.hk/2019/hong-kongs-protest-movement-must-stop-ignoring-migrant-workers/

This is a very good article, thanks for sharing. Certainly better than the Asia Times piece (although different in nature) where the reporter felt like he got a PhD from talking to one helper.

# ? Sep 19, 2019 12:51

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Maximo Roboto posted:

https://twitter.com/wilfredchan/status/1174349238270083073

would have been funnier to call him justin wong

# ? Sep 19, 2019 13:52

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

Darkman Fanpage posted:

would have been funnier to call him justin wong

Sure, he supports Hong Kong, but how good is he with Karin? asking the hard questions the PRC is too afraid to

# ? Sep 19, 2019 13:54

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021

# ? Sep 19, 2019 20:53

tino: Jun 4, 2018; by Smythe

On the one hand, yeah. On the other hand, shut the gently caress up Tom Friedman.

# ? Sep 19, 2019 21:35

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021

# ? Sep 20, 2019 11:01

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

Is anyone willing to ride on a C919?

# ? Sep 20, 2019 11:25

tino: Jun 4, 2018; by Smythe

C919 is flying commercially?

# ? Sep 20, 2019 12:03

Kangxi: Nov 12, 2016; "Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."

sincx posted:

This is interesting.

Kiribati just switched its diplomatic recognition from the ROC to the PRC.

https://twitter.com/cnni/status/1174938264257458177

They're the second country to switch in a week. The other being the Solomon Islands. That leaves only 15 still recognizing Taiwan. The PRC will probably try and get more ahead of Taiwans elections next January.

# ? Sep 20, 2019 17:54

tino: Jun 4, 2018; by Smythe

Are you guys following the Tsai fake doctoral dissertation scandal? There is a lot of fishy things around her doctoral thesis. I find it fascinating. This whole thing say a lot about the Chinese culture.

# ? Sep 20, 2019 18:04

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Bloodnose posted:

Is anyone willing to ride on a C919?

Is anyone willing to ride on a 737 max?

Can Airbus produce the A320neo quickly enough?

# ? Sep 20, 2019 18:15

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Bloodnose posted:

Is anyone willing to ride on a C919?

The C919 is proletarian achievement on par with the MIG-15

# ? Sep 20, 2019 19:59

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

hobbesmaster posted:

Is anyone willing to ride on a 737 max?

Can Airbus produce the A320neo quickly enough?

The answer to all of these is no.

# ? Sep 20, 2019 20:08

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

Typo posted:

The C919 is proletarian achievement on par with the MIG-15

I can only imagine how poo poo this plane must be goddamn

countries rescinding their recognition of Taiwan seems significant, what kind of impact is that gonna have if any?

# ? Sep 20, 2019 20:15

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Lightning Knight posted:

I can only imagine how poo poo this plane must be goddamn

countries rescinding their recognition of Taiwan seems significant, what kind of impact is that gonna have if any?

none. since Nixon went to China and the PRC got the UN seat most countries do the same game the US does with recognizing both and have a �not an embassy� in Taipei

# ? Sep 20, 2019 20:16

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

tino posted:

Are you guys following the Tsai fake doctoral dissertation scandal? There is a lot of fishy things around her doctoral thesis. I find it fascinating. This whole thing say a lot about the Chinese culture.

My favorite twitter rumor about tsai was that she has a hapa lovechild who lives in Canada. The details around her dissertation do seem pretty sketchy:

Bloodnose posted:

Is anyone willing to ride on a C919?

Maybe the state department should rebrand itself the department of pot kettle attacks

CAPS LOCK BROKEN has issued a correction as of 22:19 on Sep 20, 2019

# ? Sep 20, 2019 22:17

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

Welcome back, man. It's been a while since I got to say things can be bad in two places at the same time. Yes, Boeing can have a bad plane and also COMAC can have a bad plane. That doesn't violate any natural laws.

# ? Sep 20, 2019 22:21

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Bloodnose posted:

Welcome back, man. It's been a while since I got to say things can be bad in two places at the same time. Yes, Boeing can have a bad plane and also COMAC can have a bad plane. That doesn't violate any natural laws.

Unlike the boeing design that your employer carries water for, the comac jet is a knockoff of the a320 and doesn't need absurd hacks to mount a huge turbofan engine on its wing.

# ? Sep 20, 2019 22:24

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Having the only "good" new airliners coming from the French and French Canadians is weird though.

# ? Sep 20, 2019 22:28

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

E: this is mean, sorry.

I'm not surprised, it honestly feels like no one can make a good airplane, save for one or two companies. I'm curious what the environmental push is going to do to airplanes, though.

Maybe it's time to bring back dirigibles!

Grapplejack has issued a correction as of 22:41 on Sep 20, 2019

# ? Sep 20, 2019 22:36

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 08:24

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021

# ? Sep 20, 2019 23:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Forget About Chips - China Is Coming for Ships

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