(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:oppression of tibetans and uyghurs that’s ten times worse than what israel does to palestinians but also a million times less known or condemned last i checked, tibetans and uyghurs have access to running water and more than one meal a day unlike gaza
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Oct 26, 2017 09:46
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:there are literally more tibetans and uyghurs living without running or potable water than there are palestinians in palestine maybe because there are way way more of the latter there are more starving americans than starving palestinians </galaxybrain>
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Oct 26, 2017 18:12
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cargo cult posted:going to bat for China as a MTW or whatever makes roughly a billion times more sense to me than going to bat for explicitly reactionary Russia as a tankie does tbh http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/10/china-helpful-russia-hurtful-korea-policy-171026064434466.html Trump is the ultimate MTW, plotting the destruction of the American empire! TRUMP
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Oct 26, 2017 19:47
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Epic High Five posted:The USSR definitely had UHC yep the post-wwii european economies went for uhc so that they wouldn't look bad amidst their eastern neighbors who just beat the nazis. otherwise the war would have made all of europe go communist via accelerationism
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Oct 26, 2017 22:36
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I'm a strategy game noob who plays waifu sims like fire emblem. What should I play as an intro to the genre?
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Nov 18, 2017 21:02
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Dreddout posted:I'd be more open to this idea if climate change didn't threaten to destroy us all within our lifetime. It's possibly, probably, too late to stop most of the damage. And I see no way that liberalism can weather the storm without mass death. We might have to resort to eco-stalinism to avoid the greatest genocide in history. I would argue that a bureaucratic element should be charged to deal with climate change, but that it doesn't necessarily have to be unaccountable. The idea of soviet style democracy in which bureaucrats are subject to the potential for instant recall is relevant here Dictatorship of the proletariat shouldn't be conflated with vanguardism, but rather completely stripping the rich of their power. The absence of vanguardism also doesn't necessarily have to entail the absence of bureaucracies
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Jan 16, 2018 21:46
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:CIA got owned ni- sorry, sorry im trying to remove it
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Jan 20, 2018 01:17
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neoliberals posting chapo tweets is actually cultural appropriation
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Jan 25, 2018 02:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Putting reactionaries into re-education camps is better than drone bombing them indefinitely. Good job vindicating people who shout "what-aboutism" at the top of their lungs
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Jan 25, 2018 17:51
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"I don't believe that freedom of movement is an inalienable human right, when it's primarily exploited as a means of making capital more fluid" you heard it here folks. the sanctity of the so-called 21st century state-socialist projects is more important than the international working class's right to what is by far the #1 source of social mobility
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Feb 28, 2018 18:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:"Freedom of movement" is entirely theoretical for individuals based on their economic capability. It means capital can always move to the cheapest country possible at-will, while the workers can't move with them and are hosed once their country actually improves to the point where somewhere else is cheaper. I agree, which is why it's essential that workers form ties across borders and juxtapose/demand their own freedom of movement as opposed to that of capital. The insecurity of workers vis-a-vis national borders allows the wage rate to be suppressed everywhere and workers to have their surplus value stolen even more viciously in national bourgeois interests everywhere Relevant pic: 
Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 03:27 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 03:23
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Karl Barks posted:the state, money, and wages, the three things people associate capitalism with most yeah better that we stick with the freedom/opportunity/entrepreneurship vs. 100 million dead/breadlines/gulag paradigm we're all familiar with or better yet, the meaninglessness of the phrase "ownership of the means of production" which renders everything from your local co-op to kibbutzim in israel a socialist utopia in the naive sense that proudhon conceived of it or the state ownership of the means of production paradigm, which renders scandanavia, iran, and dprk socialist... which all maintain those lovely hierarchical relations of a state, wage labor, money, and commodity exchange  capital is a global system and no nation has successfully managed to exist "outside" of what is essentially a global system. at best, a nation can achieve tenuous social democratic measures either with the backing of the west (scandanavia) or its incessant subterfuge (cuba). any talk of fighting to preserve such regimes is only justified insofar as it entails preventing violence from an aggressor, which is equally just if we're going to say that the u.s. shouldn't invade afghanistan and so forth Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 09:09 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 08:55
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Karl Barks posted:i just thought that comic was silly, i more or less agree virtually no state is 100% full on communism. but I support the ones that are trying! except for the DRPK, juche is fascism i'd argue that trying for total state ownership is misguided at best, and a bad faith attempt to justify a parasitic state bureaucracy's complete stranglehold on all aspects of life at worst
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Mar 1, 2018 17:36
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and china should cool it on the capital punishment
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once in awhile horseshoe theory is real
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Mar 2, 2018 18:35
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:China is good y'all pener and i can put our differences aside on this imo
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Mar 6, 2018 01:51
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this is actually good, amnesty are western imperialists  racist amerikkkans and colonialists can't understand that third world peoples WANT the patronage of dengist third-worldism and furthermore 
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Mar 27, 2018 20:02
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R. Guyovich posted:now that the country is advancing to the end of the primary stage of socialism jason unruhe has logged on
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Mar 31, 2018 03:51
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There's a difference between economic neo-colonialism and the kind maintained with armies/settlers. China just built a naval base in Djibouti last year so we might be approaching the latter I'd argue that Sudan is a good case of Chinese/Western imperialist rivalries, as China armed/supported Omar al-Bashir and shielded him as he was committing genocide in Darfur, whereas the U.S. among others tried to exploit the image of the genocide to make China look bad Now with all that being said, it still is mostly soft power we're dealing with here. China has the ideological advantage of being able to portray itself as a country founded on third world anti-imperialism vis-a-vis the historical exploitation of western powers. American aid of Latin America and anti-Spanish liberation movements (and a common anti-European "American" heritage) put it in a similar position during the 1800s, hence why the Monroe Doctrine looked so anti-imperialist when it was written compared to the precedent it set
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Mar 31, 2018 19:28
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R. Guyovich posted:i think my favorite thing about this endless spiraling argument is the people who argue china is socialist rely on hard data about the way the economy actually functions and the people arguing against rely on glib Reckons nice meltdown
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Apr 3, 2018 19:42
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drat chinese forum bots are getting more sophisticated
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Apr 3, 2018 20:01
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R. Guyovich posted:Le epic PYF thread for me to laugh at Twitter and Facebook micro-celebs. Im cool. im glad SOMEBODY is telling first world labour aristokkkracy proles that china is actually good WAKE UP SHEEPLE
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Apr 3, 2018 22:37
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:ill take tankies who think Xi is cool or whatever over the Assadist ones any day though xi is actually showing climate change leadership in this hypernormalized world, if nothing else 
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Apr 4, 2018 00:52
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viral spiral posted:Is this your way of pretending America is currently not on an irreversible decline because lol yes and that also doesn't mean that china's rise is some unstoppable behemoth
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Apr 12, 2018 20:21
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viral spiral posted:You know China just buys off America's neoliberal establishment right china's genius longterm strategy for global political hegemony.... to become the failing u.s. empire
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Apr 17, 2018 22:48
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tankies are the original "um actually" guys but instead of pedantry it's poo poo that killed millions of people
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Apr 18, 2018 19:46
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not capitalism not capitalism not neo-colonialism nanananana i cant hear you http://allafrica.com/stories/201804240187.html
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Apr 25, 2018 19:58
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:There's no choice for us either way. The only really decisive factor in the future of China is the CCP. The fact that you just said CCP and not the proletariat says everything imo
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Apr 25, 2018 22:34
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:seriously though there are other china threads which appear to be full of expats living there who seem to really hate living in china and also chinese people virgin white stalinist lf vet vs. chad actual chinese person
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Apr 26, 2018 04:15
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For the record, I had a Marxist economics professor who has written a ton about this very subject. He has also been to China and both of the Koreas, has contacts in the labor movement, and even given talks in Cuba about how the Chinese economic system isn't worth emulating His newest article on China is here. https://economicfront.wordpress.com/2018/04/12/whats-driving-trade-tensions-between-the-us-and-china/amp/ "For its part, the Chinese government is trying to use its large state-owned enterprises, control over finance, investment restrictions on foreign investment, licensing powers, government procurement policies, and trade restrictions to build its own strong companies. These are reasonable development policies, ones very similar to those used by Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. It is short-sided for progressives in the US to criticize the use of such policies. In fact, we should be advocating the development of similar state capacities in the US in order to rebuild and revitalize the US economy. That doesn’t mean we should uncritically embrace the Chinese position. The reason is that the Chinese government is using these policies to promote highly exploitative Chinese companies that are themselves increasingly export oriented and globalizing. In other words, the Chinese state seeks only a rebalancing of power and wealth for the benefit of its own elites, not a progressive restructuring of its own or the global economy."
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Apr 27, 2018 00:45
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On that note, it kind of bugs me to hear advocates of various state socialisms use pithy arguments about standard of living increases under Stalin and Mao, as though we should take similar arguments about capitalism's standard of living increases by Stephen Pinker et al as similar gospel. Every single post-WWII economy that boomed did so with some combination of capitalist and state enterprise. The different gradations, geopolitical impacts, and ideological variations thereof do not a "socialist state" make. The one opportunity for global socialist revolution came and went with the failure of the USSR's revolution to spread to Western Europe, and that's made clear by the eagerness of Western states and businessmen (Kochs included) to do business with Stalin Trotsky may have been a bit of a demagogic nutjob, but he was right about the necessity for international revolution. It's too bad that he would prove to be better than the newspaper sellers who would try to follow his example
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Apr 27, 2018 00:52
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happy may fourth, the real one not the lovely star wars thing
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May 4, 2018 17:17
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Top City Homo posted:“By embracing Marx even tighter, the party is contrasting itself with the ‘failing’ alternative political-economic model of the United States,"
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May 5, 2018 02:06
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:i've got good news for you mao's faction of the ccp won a power struggle in the 20s when the kuomintang killed a bunch of urban communists and so he came up with "new democracy" bs in which chinese capitalists were part of the new order, in the "bloc of four classes" basically mao was a 20th century bourgeois revolutionary and like every post-lenin communist leader, arguably more of a left-wing nationalist than an actual communist socialism with chinese characteristics is just the logical extension of mao's whole platform really
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May 6, 2018 05:39
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i'm saying that mao played fast and loose with "marxism" and gave it essentially nothing but lip service. i'm no fan of mao or his successors and there was a surprising amount of capitalism in his reign, hence "new democracy," "the bloc of four classes," etc. deng essentially took mao's excuse of adapting socialism to "chinese conditions" (peasant/rural economy) and morphed that into "socialism with chinese characteristics." mao allowed the factory owners to essentially remain untouched, and then deng allowed that to evolve into a massive chinese burgeoisie
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May 6, 2018 05:59
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mao, ho chi minh, et al were national liberationists more than actual revolutionaries. many east asian communists during the mid-20th looked up to george washington and napoleon bonaparte more than karl marx, and hell ho chi minh even tried to get a hearing from woodrow wilson after he came up with his 14 points on national self-determination
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May 6, 2018 06:05
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https://www.cfr.org/blog/remembering-ho-chi-minhs-1945-declaration-vietnams-independence lf would totally be on board with telling ho chi minh to shut the gently caress up, liberal
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May 6, 2018 06:07
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Typo posted:this is true of Ho but not true of Mao dude, two of the four stars on china's flag literally represent the "national burgeoisie" and the "enlightened gentry" mao was a filthy pedo liberal hipster who wanted everyone to worship him
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May 6, 2018 06:11
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https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-4/mswv4_32.htm tankies are just confused libs and it's the sweetest irony of all
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May 6, 2018 06:15
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two of the four small ones
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May 6, 2018 06:25
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Typo posted:I'm less interested in china's flag or what he wrote before he took power (because ppl aren't always sincere) than what he did when he was in power what he did was liquidate most of the landlords and the *foreign* bourgeoisie. he still left much of the capitalist class intact and suppressed strikes. maoism has very, very little to do with actual marxism
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May 6, 2018 06:27
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